tv Criminal Mindscape MSNBC November 21, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PST
sirius radio and jour back, "alex's wake" about you checking this out and what did occur to those memories of your family. and that's "hardball" for now. good evening from paris, i'm chris hayes, it's one week tonight since the attacks killed 130 in paris. and parisians came out in the street and at 9:20, there were celebrations and defiance that sietsz sites of the attack. and people coming out in drones and the precise moment the attack began and designed to show a message for those responsible, you cannot,io awill
not keep us down. and in the west african nation of mali, gunman stormed a hotel, leaving at least 20 dead, including an american. and first, we take you to the domestic political drama in the u.s. where today brought a true rarity, gop candidate, donald trump back tracking after an out cry over his indorsement to created a data base to keep track of every muslim and hillary clinton calling the rhetoric shocking. and representative, keith ellis, also decrying trump's stance and not sparing his fellow gop candidates. >> not all of the republican candidates, but certainly some of them seem to think antimuslim hate is ad ven tajs to everybody. and weir rar religiously
tallerant country. we're not like isis. we're different from them. we believe, christians, jews, no faith at all, it's okay. >> and ben carson no stranger to rhetoric. >> listen, i'm a big fan of donald trump's but i'm not a fan of government reg straes of american citizens. >> based on their race, based on some other thing, that's setting a pretty dangerous precedent. >> criticism also came from two of the candidates seeking to cast themselves as the responsible adults, jeb bush and john kasich who took direct shots at the frontrunner. >> he's engaged in personal attacks against me and all i'm pointing out is the idea that somehow we're going to have all the muslims in america register,
which really strikes against the culture of america. >> i find it abhorrent that he is saying we register people. that haunts back to a time no one wants to go back to. you talk about closing mosques, registering people, that's just wrong. i don't care about campaigns. >> and asked about trump's call to close down mosques, rubio ended up calling for something more expansive. >> it's not about closing down mosques, it's about closing down any place, any place where radicals are being inspired, it's not just a mosque, any facility being used to radicalize and inspire attacks against the united states should be a place we look at. >> and as i mentioned at the outset, trump did seem to sort of walk back his position today
but didn't quite repudiate it. saying i didn't suggest a data base, a reporter did. and we reached out to the campaign for clarification but got no response. it is true that hunter did ask about muslims being in a data base. and he left no question in a follow up interview with nbc news last night. >> there will be a lot of systems and today you can do it but right now we have to have a border, strength, a wall and we cannot let what's happening to this country -- i would certainly implement that. absolutely. >> joining me now, yahoo news hunter walker, the one whoo
kicked all this off. and the case i've seen being made today is that he was essentially entrapped into this position by you and it was never interjected until it was brought up by you, is that fair? >> we began by discussing trump's past expressions of support for the nypd's muslim surveillance program which was ended earlier this year and -- early 2014, and that was a situation where the nypd was conducting surveillance of the muslim community in the u.s., infiltrating mosques and student groups in the new york area. mr. trump did not deny his past expressions and said he would consider former nypd commissioner, ray kelly for a member in his administration and i followed up further and asked
about his take on the syrian refugee situation and i noticed in paris they declared a state of emergency that includes increased warrantless searches. so, given he was talking about extensive surveillance on the muslim community in the u.s., i asked if that would include warrantless searches, he said we should be doing some things that are quote on quote unthinkable and would make some people upset and i said would that include a data base of muslim citizens and he said, quote, you have to highlight that befoer, we're go ing to look at things very closely. and all we did was press him when muslims in america, not immigrants, not refugees and he said he didn't rule anything out
and that's what happened. >> we should also note, of course, that he essentially seemed to confirm that in a later interview, so if he's being bullied into this by the press, he's twice bullied and i don't think donald trump is someone easily bullied as he would say himself. and you keep looking for some sort of tipping point in rhetoric. there was a little bit of that it appears with jeb bush and john kasich but even the ted cruz and ben carson wasn't strenuous. >> and never has he said i do not support this type of data base or i do not support an id.
so, even if this suggestion was presented by reporters, he's never, ever said he's against it and his spokesperson, also gave an appearance on fox business where she said they're not ruling anything out. so, sure, this was initially presented by me but it was in a context where he was talking about this mass surveillance program he wants. i think it's important to press for specifics and when i did, he's not said whether or not he's against it. >> i want to flag what marco rubio said, he basically says, we should be looking to shutting down anything, where people are getting radicalized. a, i don't know what diners he's talking about and, b, you run up pretty hard against the first amendment when you begin talking about that. >> in this environment of inflamed rhetoric and i think it's really important to talk about specifics and logistics. if we're talking about a mass
security system against the muslim community in the u.s., what does that look like and does that really fit with our ideals? >> thank you very much. that was very clear. joining me now is democratic representative, one of two muslims serving in congress and i want to get your reaction to some of the back and forth with donald trump and some of the other candidates in the race. how does that strike your ears? >> well, obviously, i was deeply disappointed to hear what mr. trump had to say. for anyone who is seeking to be the ceo and commander and chief of our great nation, he or she has to know that there are over eight million muslims, many of whom are police officers, engineers, lawyers, judges, executives, who are making contributions to this country
and he or she must know, has to know that to establish or even suggest to establish a muslim data base is reminiscent of what our jewish friends had to endure in nazi germany. >> that's a very strong comparison. >> it's an accurate comparison i think the kind of xenophobia and islamaphobia is unamerican and our founding fathers were at least visionary and that congress shall not respect a particular religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof. so, those that want to not gain political points by saying outrageous things have to take into consideration that the american people are very intelligent and that they're going to pay for it at the polls next year. >> one of the things we keep
seeing reoccurring and the republicans clearly believe they're on the winning side of this issue is attacking hillary clinton or anyone else for not saying certain phrases. saying something like radical islamic terrorism and if you don't say that phrase, you're not serious about the threat of isis. what is your response to the insistence on those words? >> i think often times we can get distracted by the usage of certain language. and they're a terrorist organization, they're killing muslims in the organization and the very folks who are fleeing the influence of isil are being discriminated against and so in a real sense, for us to condemn the syrian refugees, it plays into the larger isil narrative that hey, america doesn't even want you, come to us, we will take care of you, but the facts
are clear, they don't have a central command structure where they can launch an attack but their ideology in the abstract is destructful. they're capitalizing on the dictators that have been in play in the region for decades and until we have a global united front, this organization will grow and metastasize. >> are you worried whether anyone is presenting a path to a global united front that would stop it from metastasizing? >> absolutely. you're hearing it from president obama, nancy pelosi, you're hearing it from party leadership and i think it's clear that the american people have a deep sense of anxiety, understandably so and there are national security issues we need to address. we have a successful
intelligence community but that doesn't mean that gaps don't exist and we need to work on these gaps and make sure we keep the american people safe. >> thank you for your time tonight, sir. >> an honor. thank you. >> and as trump's campaign shows no signs of slowing down, members of the gop are seeking to destroy. and this has to be seen in its entirety to be believed. don't want to misthat it.
they win if we give up who we are and even more so, without a fight. >> republican congressman, steve russell of oklahoma spoke passionately and eloquently on the house floor wednesday night against the gop sponsored bill targeting refugees but then he voted on that same bill and today he explained why. he says he initially cast the vote against the act that would expand the vetting process for refugees from syria and iraq and that created a bit of a ruckus, his colleagues surrounded him on the floor and asked him to switch his vote since it would give them a veto proof majority and he will have a seat on the table and once an agreement was met, he switched his vote. i guess we'll see if it is worth the price of his conscience.
to gain ground on ben carson and his rhetoric, which has been condemned as horrifying has helped with republican voters. haze lead in new hampshire is sizeable and marco rubio and ben carson in second place in that state. and ben carson has pretty clearly decline over the last couple weeks leaving senator rubio and cruz to continue duking it out in first place to be trump's main rival. and josh, i feel like we've entered a new phase here. there was phase one, which was trump dominance, phase 2 where it seemed he may be suplanted by ben carson and the fact that he has been able to reemerge in the wake of the attacks, seems like he is not going anywhere.
>> i don't know that he reemerged but he had been polling pretty evenly for about four months now. and the change is that he's moving up in the polls. we've had a whole list of oh, no, this is going to doom donald trump's campaign and i don't think there's any indication that whatever he's done on the issue of muslim surveillance that is offensive and that looks like a misstep, i don't see any reason to think that's going to hurt him. >> here is the grand irony in this, the person who is most associated with support for military intervention in the middle east is lindsey graham, he wants ground troops, he's very specific about the number, he's been banging his drum about this forever. he's 1% before the attack and 1%
afterwards. and he's saying everything coming from donald trump is horrible and obscene and unamerican. and donald trump is giving a certain base what -- >> i think people might be weary about another ground war in the middle east and so many of the candidates talk about how annoying it is that the president won't say radical islamic terrorism. saying it is a thing that would have foreign policy effects, some that would make it more difficult to engage muslim allies in the middle east. you don't look at isil and say radical islamic terrorism and they fold but people like it because it is a projection of strength and donald trump is all about projections of strength.
>> he, through accident and intuition, has found the message that i think resonates the most with a certain core of the base that is particularly alienated from the republican establishment, particularly on issues of trade and immigration, both of which he has views that are out of step with say the chamber of commerce and no one can out shameless him in courting that vote. >> one, is there's a real unserved part of the republican base that disagrees but has been ignored and you can politely ignore them in the past and now they have trump to be air advocate this goes back to his career in real estate. he understands making a big show can be a strategy. i read the art of strategy,
which he likes to say is the second best book behind the bible. and he wanted to get holiday inn to be his equity partner and talked them into believing that he had done a lot of work. and literally what he said to the construction manager is it doesn't matter what they do, so long as they do a lot of it. so, he has them digging the holes and putting them back in and he impressed them and got them to make their investment. he's figured out if you make a lot of ninety-two noise, people will infer that you have something behind that noise, even if you really don't. >> it doesn't matter what you do, just do a lot of it. also, make america great again. and up next.
we've been here in paris all week, do the show here live, 2:00 a.m. local time and usually people have gone to bed behind me and today, it was packed tonight. people shouting and singing and dancing in defiance and even now at 2:30, you can see people out in the cold rain, lighting candles, holding vigils around
the city outside the attacks as well. this morning, however in the west african nation of mali, gunman attacked a radisson blu hotel and government security forces responded and the attack ended, at least 20 people were killed and two attackers were killed as well. the rest of the hostage were freed by the end of the siege. it is not immediately clear who was responsible for the attack. today french authorities offered new information about the saint-denis raid earlier this week, saying the woman killed in the raid was not in fact a suicide bomber who had been previously reported and that the suicide balmer was a third person found in the rubble. and you'll remember, abdelhamid abaaoud, the suspected ring leader was ilcanned in that attack.
they're turning out propaganda video which is terrifying to some and sometimes thankfully ridiculous. today, it appeared to be a highly produced animation of a collapsed eiffelatory and it was actually slowed down footage from the 2009 film "g.i. joe, rise of the cobra." from the latest in mali. and you've been following the attack in mali. what do we know about what happened there today? >> reporter: we've gotten a good sense of how the attack unfolded. what we're still working on is to get a better sense of who was behind the attack and why this specific hotel. it began shortly after 7:00 a.m. local time. a group of men -- the number has varied from as many as 10, going
down to as low as two, but it seems at least now, the number stands at three gunman who entered the hotel shortly after 7:00 a.m. and launching grenades and firing. they took about 170 hostages and throughout the course of the day, security operation unfolded that was load by the mulayen government, backed by french special forces, as well as american special forces who happened to be at the building that same time and by support from the united nations that has security forces on the ground in mali. by the end of the day, the building was back in control of the security forces but at a deadly cost. 19 people were killed. and we're talking about this a little about, about who may have been behind this there's a clime of responsibility that nbc can
independently verified and believed to be credible. we've been talking a lot about isis and what it is trying to do and one group we did not mention has been al qaeda. it seems the group that has claimed responsibility today is an affiliate of al qaeda, particularly in west africa. they've claimed responsibility for the attack. we're still trying to learn more about the individual attackers, where they're from and why they specifically went after this building today. those questions remain. >> and there is a civil war in mali and several years ago, french president sent a french ground troops into mali that managed to push back the extremists and many see this as an attempt to sabotage that process.
>> very much so. a lot of analysis that this has a double meaning, one against the central government of mali and by extension, the french government. france has very strong ties to mali and actually came to mali's defense in 2013, there are several groups that operate in northern part of the country. they had taken control of many of the towns and cities. so, the french government couldn't watch as the northern part of the country fell into the militant's hands. there are long economic and cultural ties to mali. given the fact that this country was at one point, a french colonies up until the 1960s. and in light of france's position in west africa, there
are going to we a lot of questions, whether this group was targeting the malasian central government and the fact that france has played such a prominent role in propping it up and making sure the rebels were ousted from northern part of the country in 2013. >> thank you. last week has brought foreign policy to the forefront of the 2016 campaign and how they haunt hillary clinton on the trail up next. 0
large hated that war. >> i cast a sincere vote based on my assessment at the time and i take responsibility for that vote. i also said on the floor that day that this was not a vote for pre-emptive war. i thought it made sense to put inspectors back in it. if i had known then what i know now about what the president would do with the authority that was given him, i would not have voted the way that i did. >> after clinton served as president obama's secretary of state, foreign policy was not expected to play a roll in this run for president. with a challenge by bernie sanders, economic issues have become the democrat party's main substnative battle ground. hillary clinton is in a tricky
position. forced, once again to negotiate where she agreeses and diverged from barack obama p. >> it's time to begin a new phase p. to deny isis control of territory in iraq and syria. that starts with a more effective coalition air campaign. >> at the same time, bernie sanders, who's never put much emphasis on foreign policy is trying to carve out a niche of his own. the focus is less on military intervention. >> to my mind, it is clear that the united states must pursue policies to destroy the brutal and barbaric isis regime, but we cannot and should not do it alone.
our response must begin with an understanding of past mistakes and missteps in our previous approaches to foreign policy. >> joining me now, special correspondent of the daily beast. michael, how do you think the clinton campaign, hillary clinton herself has absorbed the lessons of 2008 and did you see those reflected in the speech she gave yesterday? >> yeah, i did see them reflected. i think she's been the lucky ben fishiary of events, chris. it was completely relevant in 2008. it's not as relevant now and now we have this other beast, isis and this other issue to deal with. so, she benefits from that. in the speech, she was -- i think the message she sent was
yeah, i'm a couple of ticks to obama's right. i don't think she's much more than that. i don't think she's a neocon. i don't that's exactly accurate or fair. that's the bomb the place to smith renes is that's not her position and the i'm going to tear it up my first day in office, that's not her deal, she supports the iran nuclear deal. >> i think when people criticize her from the left they focus on the campaign in libya, that we all know on the record was a strenuous supporter of and has led to libya dangling on the preface and she was a strenwit advocate in syria, possibly going in. it's been interesting that she
does not highlight that in giving the context of what's become to say, hey, i was right about syria. why do you think she doesn't? >> i think she doesn't want to offend obama voters. because you're right, she could easily say, hey, look, i wanted and leon panetta wanteds, several of us wanted to go in and help the moderate syrian rebels in 2011 and 12 and if we had done more for them then and made sure they got the arms, isis may not have developed into quite the problem they have. and nobody can prove it but they can't disprove it. . >> you had a piece on bernie sanders and one thing that is striking to me is there's a certain clarity in bomb the hel
out of them as donald trump says and a certain clarity in a whole variety of ways of intervening militarily. anything else, sounds evasive or fudgy when you say bring together a coalition, and force them to come to a negotiated political settlement and yadda-yadda. well, fine. and ultimately, the solution -- almost every expert i talk to, it's going to end in nonmilitary means. >> i hope so. i don't think the problem is
sanders' position and a lot of the things he talked about today and that he talks about on those occasions when he does address foreign policy, there are things that the obama has been trying to do and there are things that hillary clinton agrees with too. the issue with sanders is it's kind of not in his bones. foreign policy isn't in his bones and the debate last saturday, they both started with a mention of what happened in paris and their reactions to it and hillary talk about it for a while and sanders talked about it for maybe a couple sentences and then started talking about wall street. >> michael, smart and decisive. never a morphs. thank you. and coming up, what george w. bush said just days after september 11th and is absolutely remarkable to listen to. we'll play that for you next.
comes today of a poet sentenced to death for denouncing his islamic state. it happened in saudi arabia, considered to be one of our strongest allies in the middle east. and we learned today that a saudi court has ordered the execution of this man, seen at left, a plin poet and sentenced to death for renouncing his muslim faith. and their justice system is based on sharia islamic law and they believe blasphemy is punishable by death. he had originally convicted by a prosecution witness who claimed to have heard him cursing god, the prophet muhammad and now .
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♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ less than a week after the united states was attacked on september 11th, 2001, president, george bush did something that given the current climate seems extraordinary. he went to the islamic center to declare the united states was not at war with islam. >> that can you all very much for your hospitality. just had wide ranging discussions on the matter at hand. like the good folks standing with me, the american people were appalled and outraged. at last tuesday's attacks, and so were muslims all across the world.
both americans, our muslim friends and citizens, tax paying citizens, and muslims in nations, were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our tv screens. these acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenants of the islamic faith. and it's important for my fellow americans to understand that. the english translation isn't as eloquent as arabic. but let me quote from the quran itself. in the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. for that they rejected the signs offall allah and held him up to ridicule.
the face of terror is not the true face of islam. that's not what islam is all about. islam is peace. these terrorists don't represent peace. they represent evil and war. when we think of islam, we think of the faith that brings comfort to over a billion people around the world. billions of people find comfort and solace and peace and that's made brothers and sisters out of every race. out of every race. america counts millions of muslims among our citizens. and muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country.
they're doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shop keepers, moms and dads. and they need be treated with respect. and our anger and emotion are fellow americans must treat each other with respect. women who cover their heads in this country, must feel comfortable going outside their homes. moms who wear cover must not be intimidated in america. that's not the america i know. that's not the america i value. i've been told that some fear to leave, some don't want to go shopping for their families. some don't want to go about their ordinary, daily routines
because by wearing cover they're afraid they will be intimidated. that should not and will not stand in america. those that feel they can intimidate the fellow citizens, don't represent the best of america, they represent the worst of human kind and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior and this is a great country and that's because we share the same values of human worth and respect and dignity and i'm meeting with leaders who are outraged and they're sad and love america just as much as i do. and i want to thank everybody for giving me a chance to come by and may god bless us all.
the face of terror is not the true faith of islam. that's not what islam is all about. islam is peace. these terrorists don't represent peace. they represent evil and war. >> joining me now, doctor, founder of an organization of muslim rights and also author of the islamic world view and she's the woman standing along side george w. bush just six days after 9/11. can you give us an idea of what
the mood was like and what muslim americans were feeling just six days after the attacks. >> i should mention that that meeting was originally scheduled to happen on 9/11, when the attacks took place and so, of course, it did not take place and nobody really expected that our president, who was extremely preoccupied with all the results of the attack, that he would call together the same muslim group he was supposed to meet with and talk to them and assure them about the fact that we are all americans in this country and that he will not tolerate any kind of bigoted behavior or islam phobia and in fact, we had a small meeting with him in the islamic center and then he gave a speech.
and we mentioned that some muslim women were worried to go to the grocery shop because they were concerned about being attacked. the president made a point of addressing that situation. and talking to the whole american people as one group undivided by differences of faith or any other difference and assuring us all that things will be okay. it was still a very sad time. many of us, it has not dawned on us yet, the magnitude of what has happened. it took a long time for everything to unfold and for us nderstd the depth of it. but it was surprising for us. that the president would come together to meet with a muslim leadership in such a short time after the events and then to assure them and speak publicly
to the american people about that fact that this country is about equality, it's about the rights of every group within it in that we're not going to be changed by the act of a handful of extremists. >> can you imagine, given what we've seen in the last week, can you imagine a speech like that being made by a political leader or someone running for president today? >> i would like to hear such a speech. i think it's important that we come together as a nation and not allow certain groups of extremists to come between us. and to try and crack the unity of this nation one way or the other, either through religion, ethnicity or nationality, it would be lovely to hear some of the candidates speak in this way. but of course, unfortunately,
some have chosen to go another route. >> all right, thank you for joining us tonight. appreciate it. that is all in for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> the remarks not just in sound bites but at length, that was stunning. i just stood in front of the tv watching in disbelief. that was real public service to air that again. thank you, my friend. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. tonight, the u.n. security counsel has passed -- and they will quote combat by all means the terrorists threat posed by isis and do everything to deny them their safe haven in iraq and syria. and russia has made a habit of going their own way,