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tv   Melissa Harris- Perry  MSNBC  November 21, 2015 7:00am-9:01am PST

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good morning. this is msnbc's continuing coverage of the terror attacks in mali and paris. i'm harry smith in new york. in belgium, officials have raised the terrorism alert level in brussels to the highest possible level amild precise warnings of paris-style attacks. police and soldiers have been deployed across the city and brussel's subway system has been shut down as people are being urged to avoid public places. some of the terrorists had ties to brussels, including the alleged organizer. in turkey, police detained three men in connection with the attacks in paris. according to the news agency, one of them is suspected of spouting potential targets for the attacks of a week ago
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friday, november 13th. in the west african nation of mali, officials say 20 people including one american woman was killed when terrorists stormed a hotel and took scores hostage. the american victim identified as anita detar of maryland. her family says she spent her career promoting international development. according to reuters, a terror group affiliated with al qaeda has claimed responsibility for the mali attack. the government of mali has declared a ten-day state of emergency and a three-day period of mourning for the victims. president obama, who was in malaysia this morning for a regional summit, condemned the attack. >> like the heinous attacks we saw in paris, and attacks we saw all too often elsewhere, this is another awful reminder that the scourge of terrorism threatens so many of our nations. and once again this bar barty
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stiffens our resolve. >> keir simmons joins me by phone with more. >> i'm standing at the entrance of that radisson hotel, familiar to anyone who has stayed in this hotel chain. the windows, the entrance. but what is different is there is shattered glass in every direction. there are belongings abandoned by people in panic. water bottles that i imagine have been left by those who tried to rescue the innocent. gunman burst into this hotel, perhaps five or more. authorities say two of the shooters were killed but they're searching still for three which has put the country in a state of high alert. the president announcing there is a state of emergency. we've been watching as people
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come to collect their belongings. most clearly in shock, not wanting to speak. one north american man did tell us, though, he cowered in his room until he was rescued. some people describing hiding for hours until they were pulled out. but the rescue operation does appear to have had some success. more than 20 people killed but there were around 170 guests at the hotel, harry. it was a combination of forces from mali, the french, too, and also americans who were off duty came to help the guests get out as they tracked down these gunman. the gunmen themselves going room to room, killing people. according to witnesses, asking them if they could cite verses from the tehran and killing them if they couldn't. in the end, they were killed themselves. now the question is whether more of this jihadist group are on the run in this capital city. the authorities searching for three of them.
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>> keir, my question for you, this is a place this hotel in particular, sort of a safe haven, a place where clearly western diplomats and leaders of refugee groups were coming to have this meeting. a big target on its side. is there a sense you have -- here's a country that is no stranger to this kind of violence. what's the feeling on street there today? >> i think the sense of shock and, you're right, they also have had these jihad it's attacks on a regular basis. perhaps not in the capital so often. so there's a certain sense of resignation. beau why they targeted this hotel, as you mentioned, because of the kind of people who were here. they were clearly out to get westerners. sadly, it looks as if they did achieve that. it is al qaeda affiliated groups who are claiming responsibility for this. in contrast to last week in
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paris where isis claimed responsibility. and that raises the specter of isis and al qaeda competing to try to carry out as bloody massacres as possible. >> i know, it sounds like there's like a rivalry almost between these two groups. keir, thank you very much for your reporting live this morning from mali. we may hear more from you a little bit later on this morning. as we've been reporting today, brussels terror alert is now at its highest level indicating a serious and immediate threat there. i want to bring in nbc news correspondent claudia lavane in brussels. what's going on there now and what's prompted this highest level of alert? >> well, harry, what's going on right now is that there is an increasing military presence here in the city center. now, i'm standing in front of the old stock exchange. you can see it probably behind me.
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literally minutes ago i just saw another, yet another heavily armored military vehicle parking. just right near our window. this is of course a very unlikely scene in the city center of brussels which is usually known as the very quiet home of european institutions or nato. but this is what's been going on all day. lomts of soldiers in the streets. they are walking the streets. they are guarding sensitive sites. places of large gatherings like shopping centers or hotel. i don't know whether you can hear the police siren in the distance. this is what you've been hearing all day, sirens back and forth in the distance. a lot of movement here. and a lot of concern for what was described, as you said, a concrete and serious imminent threat and today the authorities went as far as saying that they fear another -- a coordinated attack, multiple locations in
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brussels similar to paris, harry. >> all right, claudia levegne live in brussels, thank you. i'll turn now to paris where we're joined by nbc's chris jansing. a week after the terror attacks that stunned the world, what is the mood like on this saturday afternoon? >> i have to tell you, harry, i just witnessed something that may seem simple but i found it deeply moving. two sets of families walking across the street behind me to the place derepublicique. i can't tell you how nasty the weather has turned, icy and cold, you people are turning out in groves, parents are small children, couples, friends. and they have been here sometimes staying for a very long time trying to relight candles that won't stay lit in the rain.
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a show of resilience. talking to people who live here, including journalists, they talk about how the last couple of days, since the ringleader of isis here, the person who planned the attacks, was of course killed in saint-denis. they detected a shift in people. t they want to come out to show that they are, as we've heard from more people than i can tell you, that they won't let isis win. in many ways, life has changed here. there's no doubt about it. we've been talking about the fact we are under a state of emergency over last couple of days. both houses voted to extend that state of emergency. which means we've had these hundreds of house searches here. it it also means there can't be large public gatherings. this is probably as large a gathering, sometimes a few hundred people, as you're likely to see in paris. if you go into a shopping mall or you go into a grocery store, you're going to have your bags checked.
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in some cases, you'll be wanted. as we know happened in new york after 9/11, they're setting up more elaborate security. there's an acceptance of this. an understanding that's what has to be done. if there's a mood it does continue to be somber. not in a way, harry, that i guess is defeatist in any way at all. >> got you. chris jansing with us from paris this afternoon there now, thank you very much. joining me david rothctoh, author of the book "national insecurity, american leadership in an age of fear." about u.s. policymaking in the wake of 9/11. good morning. >> morning. >> let's talk about brussels this morning, right. this is where nato is headquartered. this is where so much of the european union business gets taken care of. subways are closed. they're talking out loud about an imminent terror threat there.
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when you see that, what do you read? >> well, i read an abundance of caution. i think that, you know, we are about to see a period in europe unlike anything we've seen before. whether there is going to be an increasing number of these attacks. for the united states, the middle east may seem far away. for europe, the middle east is a local issue. there are people who are taking boats and walking and streaming into europe. and clearly the threat level is being stepped up because people in isis thing it serves their needs to have europe on edge like this. i worry about it. the tendency is to overreact after a terror attack. the tendency is to let fear lead to a police state. these overreactions tend to exacerbate the problem. there have been rumblings in
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europe. you see the right wing in europe rising up. le pen and the national front. in austria, there's the right wing. in hungary, there's the right wing. we've been there before, right? the european right is not a very comforting group to see take power and gain power. >> all right. this thing happens in mali then yesterday. it's not isis. it's an al qaeda offshoot. and there's a very interesting piece in "the new york times" this morning about there being this literal rivalry between al qaeda and isis. who's the most ruthless? who really has the right track to jihad? do you sense that's really an accurate assessment? >> i think there may be a rivalry there. al qaeda is kind of the terrorist group of yesterday. isis seems to be the brand name that's on the rise now. some of these groups are sort of semiaffiliated with both. i think the most important thing we can do is not conflate everything.
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not see this as some grand plot that some masterminds are cooking up. these did disparate groups. when the attacks happen, the russian airline, the beirut attack, the paris attack, this attack now in mali, we tend to pool them all together and say there's this massive war going on. they are isolated for the most part. they do need to be seen as isolated. that will enable us to keep them in perspective and manage our response properly. >> this is somewhat unrelated. at the same time, think about just a couple of months ago. boats full of people not coming from turkey into greece but the boats coming on to the shore in spain, the boats coming on to the shore from north africa by the hundreds, bib ty the thousa right? there may not be a mastermind in this, but we're talking about a larger huge amount of dysfunction. that's chaos that's been created
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that's -- that all of this is sort of flowing through. >> that's what worried me the most, right. we are talking about syria and the offshoot of that, but iraq is melting down. yemen is melting down. libya is melting down. >> has melted down. >> afghanistan has got its problems. we are likely to see more and more refugees come in. now, above and beyond everything, that's a humanitarian crisis. it's not a terrorist crisis. there's 6 million to 7 million people dislocated within syria. there are 225, 250,000 people dead within syria. we have to, first, as human beings, look at it as humanitarian crisis, open our arms and help these people. some among them may be terror threats. we have to keep that in perspective. as you've seen on the news here, we're having a really hard time with that in the united states. donald trump says, hey, let's put together a list of muslims -- >> which he's backed down, away from a little bit, understood, yes. >> but it came from his impulse
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and it is the worst impulse you can possibly have. >> all right. we're going to talk more with you as the morning goes on. thank you very much. up next, new details still emerging about the man who planned the paris attacks, what we know about him and what it tells us about what other risk lies ahead when we come back. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business.
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new details emerging now about the suspected ringleader of the paris attacks, abdelhamid abaaoud was killed during a wednesday raid in the paris suburb of saint-denis. he was not an unknown threat. we now know he was 27 years old, grew up in brussels, the son of a store owner. arrested for petty crimes in 2010. he's been linked to planned
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attacks that were failed early this year including the one on a paris-bound train where americans overpowered the gunman. abaaoud moved to syria in 2014 and recruited his younger brother to join him in syria. abaaoud has boasted in isis propaganda about avoiding capture and his ability to travel between europe and syria without being noticed. just remarkable. his own father was quoted as saying he was relieved his son was dead and he believed abaaoud had been a psychopath and a devil. joining me is our guest, a terrorism analysis. the co-owner of flash point, a security firm that tracks militant websites. let's look at this guy. i was looking at some of the video. the glee almost in his demeanor. the joy in his voice. for the kinds of activities that he was involved with. when you see this, what do you see? is this -- is this jihad?
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is this -- honestly, what to you see when you see that man and you see what he has to say? >> look, jihadist ideology is a lifestyle. it's not just a tactic. it's not just an act. it's a lifestyle. something like him, who became radicalized over time, after having run-ins with the law, just shows you how powerful this kind of ideology is. once it seeps into someone's soul, it's difficult to uproot. this has been in propaganda since the days of taliban, al qaeda, so on. what isis did is take that to a new level. to say we're not just a group, we're an actual state. what you're doing with attack in paris, with attack in kuwait, in lebanon, so on, that's all in defense of this caliphate that has been bombarded by a 60-plus nations for the past year and a half. and so for somebody like him, you know, we look at him as a
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ringleader. but he's a thug. that's what he is. except that he gets that ideology and thus he acts upon what that ideology allows him to do. >> a dead ender, right? >> essentially a dead ender because he knows ultimately he'll taken out or blown up. that's his end. he's not going to flee and just be on the downlow. he's been featured in isis propaganda. his image was everywhere. >> here's what's stunning though, that hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of raids now in france in the last week. how many people under house arrest? they know. they know where he's been. they know where he's going. back and forth. is he hiding in plain sight? >> if we're talking about abdelhamid salah, he's probably be out of france, in belgium or could have been -- >> but abaaoud? >> abaaoud himself, he bragged about being able to go back and forth from syria to europe twice
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at least. a massive intelligence failure on the part of the french. maybe there was not a lot of intelligence sharing between the french and other countries that he traveled. >> right. >> just seeing that -- >> which goes to the point that with all these hundreds of raids, they had perhaps actionable intelligence on hundreds and hundreds of people that they weren't acting on and this -- it took this in order for them to say, oh, my gosh, we actually need to do this. >> france raised the alert level to its highest, right. now it's under emergency. by doing so is it allows the government to look at all these black lists it has and see who could have been somebody might have been involved. let's not forget about the discarded phone they found right after the attacks. that might have given them very valid intelligence -- >> a rolodex, an electronic rolodex. >> essentially cross reference these names and phone numbers and act upon that. >> do you feel like what
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happened in africa was in response to what happened in france? >> you know, i don't believe so. i think the raids, and we're talking about mali here, if you will. i think if it was, indeed, al qaeda, not a splitter cell of isis that is operating there, which we know is one. if it's al qaeda, it's trying to assert its power. saying, web have not died yet. we're capable of carrying out attacks that will get the media abuzz. so this rivalry we could exploit in one way or another later, get those groups to fight against each other like what's happening in syria. i believe is ironic in one way but also can be exploited later in our advantage down the line. >> if only. >> if only. >> i would hope so. thank you so much. our guest who is the founder of flash point. up next, the reaction here at home to the terror attacks
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liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. a quick update on breaking news now we're following this morning. in belgium, the capital city of brussels is on the highest terror alert after what officials are calling precise warnings of a paris-style attack. the city subway system has been shut down. people are being urged to avoid public spaces. and this news just in. the u.s. embassy in brussels is urging american citizens there to shelter in place and remain at home. if they must go out, they're being urged to avoid large crowds. and in turkey, three suspects have been arrested in connection with the paris attacks. one of them reportedly scouted some of the sites targeted in the attacks of a week ago friday, november 13th. now we turn to reaction here
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at home to the terror attacks in paris. this thursday, house republicans and democrats voted to block the entry of syrian refugees in it is united states, citing fears for american security. we are reminded of the ways in which fear can grip an entire nation and how acting out of fear regardless of one's political beliefs has very real consequences. president franklin delano roosevelt was commander in chief in 1938 who signed the executive order to intern japanese americans after the bombing of pearl harbor. it was under his watch that we denied a safe haven to jewish refugees fleeing the horrors of nazi violence. in 1939, more than 900 jewish refugees traveling aboard the ss st. louis sought refuge in cuba, the ship was forced to journey back to europe where more than a quarter of the passengers died in the holocaust.
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the supposed fear was nazi spies were among them. 75 years later, the fear is that isis terrorists could infiltrate the syrian retchy program. joining me now is the senior fellow at the carnegie council for ethics and international affairs and at the world policy institute and author of "muslims of metropolis." and back at the table is david rothkopf. good morning. let's talk about syria and the refugees coming out of syria. how -- is there a way to get a handle on the magnitude of this crisis? >> right now, the unhtr is saying approximately 12 million people have been displaced from their homes. and about 4 million people who are now displaced internationally. we know these data are grossly underestimated.
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we know there are far more people who are moving across these borders. we know the numbers are -- we cannot capture how many people are there. the number we're seeing flowing into turkey, the only neighboring region that has an open border policy, we're looking at about 2 million people. probably more than 2 million people. about 1 million people in the last year alone. the main thing we're looking at is about 10% of the refugees who have cross ed are accounted for in refugee camps. vast overwhelming majority are dispersed in cities across the country. >> this is a very -- this war has been going on for years now. we know about the refugee camps in jordan. overflowing with people for months maunds andá4m]mq months. this feels like is a new sort of
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explosion of people who just say it's untenable to be here, to continue to be in this place, we have to get out? >> right. well, at the beginning of the war in 2011, when people started leaving their homes, most people were fleeing attacks by the state, by the government. in it the last year or so, people are trying to leave the isis-controlled areas and the conflict between the militants, the uprising, the insurgent between the al nusra front and between isis. now, isis has a very interesting set of clear policies preventing people from leaving. they have a departure tax. they have certain rules saying if you want to leave, then you have to hand over the title to your house so if you don't return within a certain period of time, then your property will be confiscated. so people are facing some challenges to leaving. this goes to show us the number of people we see leaving is nowhere near the number of people who are actually at risk and under threat now.
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>> yes. >> what we need to do is understand. i also think we have a tendency to think these migration crises, only become crises once they hit western borders. we know the refugee crisis from syria has been under way for about four years at this point. >> right. let alone what's going on in africa because of boko haram and -- >> absolutely. >> affiliated different groups. >> right. >> when you heard some of the rhetoric you heard this week about not allowing refugees in, david, what was on your mind? >> well, it echoes some of the things you referenced earlier. it echoes the japanese interment camps. it echoes this kind of panting with a-qx4 broad brush of demag politicians trying to take advantage of the fear in the american people, grotesquely exaggerate a threat and suppress
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natural human impulses to take care of these people. you know, without getting too maudlin about it, there is a plaque at the base of the statue of liberty which specifically says give us your tired, your poor, your hungry, you know. this was the idea behind the united states of america. and every one of those groups contain small bits and peebss that we might have to be worried about. >> all right, we're going to take a break. thank you both for being here. we're going to bring into this discussion hadil alise. she was arrested a number of times, spending days in prison. she became a refugee and was granted asylum in the united states in 2013. staying in rhythm... it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... introducing boost 100 calories.
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ here's a quick update open the breaking news we're reporting in belgium. brussels is on virtual lockdown
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this morning amid warnings of a paris-style attack there. belgium officials have raised the terror alert to its highest level indicating an serious and immediate threat. at least one of the suspects crossed into belgium the morning of the paris attacks but his whereabouts are unknown. a new potential link has emerged in turkey where police have detained three people. one of them is reportedly accused of scouting sites for the paris attack last friday. the attacks in paris that prompted the european union to tighten border controls amid concerns terrorists may have infiltrated the wave of refugees fleeing syria. i want to bring in now from london nbc's gabe gutierrez. how many is the flow of refugees to europe been affected by the events of last week or so? >> hi there, harry. many migrants are now stranded. thursday, some countries such as macedonia and serbia, shut their
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borders to so-called economic migrants. meaning refugees now have to prove they're coming from a war-torn country like syria or iraq. on friday, an emergency meeting of eu officials. others agreed to tighten border controls by the end of the year. travelers will not only have their passports examined but have their personal information and criminal histories checked against databases. the open border arrangement covers 22 eu countries and four other nations known as the schengen zone. it was established 20 years ago. but some critics say it only really works if its external borders are protected and there are huge questions right now about whether europe is able to do so. deadly paris attacks were carried out, harry, almost entirely by european passport holders who slipped in and out of syria without being identified. there are fears here in europe that the attackers were able to exploit that migrant wave and there's a lot of anger here that the belgium ringleader of the latest paris attacks, abdelhamid
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abaaoud slipped undetected in europe and intelligence officials didn't seem to know where he is. >> gabe gutierrez in london, thank you. back in syria, he was an active leader in the struggle for free syria. shep was arrested multiple times. in 2011 when she decided her safest option was to flee the country, she was smuggleled into turkey and eventually landed in switzerland. granted asylum in the united states after receiving pro bono representation through the organization human rights first. she joins us now from washington, d.c. good morning. >> hi, good morning. take me back to those days, first days of protest in syria. did people feel like -- this is a more multicultural place, this was syria's version of the arab spring? >> yes, syrians started their
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uprising peacefully. they were marching in streets, calling for freedom. i was among them. i was one of them. i was at student at aleppo university. we didn't know back then the assad regime would be that brutal against his own people. we didn't know that isis would come from other states and establish their so-called islamic state in syria. i was arrested due to peaceful protesting. as many of my secular fellows, syrians. there were a gab. it was filled by radicals who came from other states and established their islamic state, their so-called islamic state in syria. >> when you look at what's happening in syria now, what do you see? >> sorry? >> when you look at what's happening in syria now, what do you see?
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when you see this massive flood of people trying to get out, trying to escape, what you tried to escape? >> yes, it is very sad what's going on in syria now. people -- they didn't know that was going to happen, all of that, to them. it started really peaceful uprising. and now it's horrible. the country is almost destroyed. hundreds are fleeing the country every day. we have already more than 12 million displaced inside and outside syria and there are more flowing of refugees every day. now we have russian airlines striking randomly on people. so syrians are in a desperate need for help. like politically and also humanitarian level. hundreds are fleeing every day. and we need help. >> hadil, just very briefly now, tell me what it means to you to
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have been able to find safe haven in the united states. >> i'm very thankful and happy. i'm just alive again. i was almost dying in syria. i was in danger. i was treated by assad regime to be arrested and maybe killed under torture like a lot of my fellows. and then i found a safe place where i could study again at college now. doing programming. i have a little daughter who was born here in the united states. i'm married. i'm living safely. i'm very happy to live in this country that doesn't categorize people into black, white, christians, muslims. and i hope that other syrians can find it and make it safe to america to start from the beginning. >> hadeel oueis, thank you for taking the time to tell your story. up next, how the french government reacts to the november 13th attacks with an
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♪ following the terror attacks in paris last week, the french government impose add state of emergency through the country. the state energy grants authorities in france greater powers to search without a warrant, block websites suspected of inciting or advocating for terrorism and place anyone posing a threat under house arrest. then voted to extent the security measures for three months. with me from paris is nbc's olivia sterns. olivia, what is the reaction there in france to these extended emergency powers? >> well, you know, harry, as i think as often is the case after a terrorist attack, this willingness to cede a little bit
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of freedom if there's security. the poll in the papers showing in the wake of friday's attacks 84% of french people were willing to accept new curbs, new limits on their liberty or privacy if it would actually make them safer. among these new emergency powers, probably the most significant is the fact that it gives police the license to operate without warrant. that means searches, seizures, arrests, without prior approval. that is exactly what the police here in france have been doing. roughly 800 raids in the past week. more than 100 people arrested. more than 100 people detained. these people can be detained for up to 96 hours. there are new emergency powers that were put in place this week that give the government the right to shut down social media accounts they deem to enable terrorism or block any websites they think foster terrorism. just finally, i also point out it also gives the government power to shut down any mosques
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that they think are fostering radicalism. that has many people here upset. >> interesting, is there a sense on the street that this is -- you talked about the poll, but just from folks you're meeting on street, is there a sense we're okay with this, or -- this is a big move in a democracy or a republican to say this, we're going this extra step to protect citizens, citizenry, but these are -- it's sort of like our probable cause in the constitution. where we're saying that's not so important, we've got bigger fish to fry. >> i think given everything that has gone on here, particularly in the wake of charlie hebdo, they enacted these surveillance powers here in france, which many say go well beyond what exists under the controversial patriot act in america. france was okay with that. they now see this, the terrorist attacks of last week largely as an intelligence failure. they are in the mood for more security. if that means letting somebody
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listen in on their phone calls, they're happy to have it done. >> olivia sterns, thank you. much more to get to this morning, including the strategic approach necessary to winning a war against isis. up next, we're going to talk about faith. how you doing? hey! how are you? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. this is more than just a town. this is our home.
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truly i tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of
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mine, you did for me. joining me now is reverend dr. lewis, senior minister of the collegiate church. give me the verses. >> this is jesus, a jewish rabbi, teaching his students, his disciples, what it means to be people of faith. jewish people, by the way, to be people of faith. whenever you've done it to these people, you've done it to me. >> is this as important a piece of the new testament as exists? >> it absolutely is i think one of the most important pieces. and it is born out of jesus' faith, harry. he's a jew. the jews were once strangers in egypt. we know that story of the exodus. what deuteronomy 10 says you are to love the stranger because you were once strangers. every jewish rabbi i know, every jewish lay person i know, takes
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very seriously the command to love a stranger. jesus added to it and said, you should love your neighbor as yourself as you love god with everything you have. >> which comes straight out of the old testament. >> straight out of the tora. with these so-called christian people saying that, you know, we should close our borders except for anybody who's a christian, they're sort of mocking the faith of jewish rabbi who was born in a stable and who himself was a refugee. you know the story. >> well, the context of the new testament is not just religious conflict but it's political conflict. >> absolutely. >> it's under all kinds of authoritarian rule. >> it is where rome is the beast. where the all those people in palestine are oppressed, they're broke, they're poor, their religious systems are corrupt. in that contest uprises this religious of love that is the religion born of the jewish folks. all of our major religions, we're called to love our neighbor as we're called to love
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ourselves. >> we understand that there is risk involved. this is not with the notion -- people saw it took pictures of people dying on beaches in greece for america to say, oh, my gosh, this is a terrible thing, we should help in some way, shape or form. >> and then you have one, one passport making us turn our backs. >> which may or may not be -- >> right, speculative. here's what we know to be true. we know a luth ral eran so-call christian kid took a life, went and sat in a church in charlest charleston, killed the pastor and eight congregants. that's terrorism. are we going to round up all the 22-year-old christians and deport them? >> that may be taking a step away from this larger issue though. faith as a center of -- of -- if you buy into one part of it, do you need to buy into the rest?
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>> i think what we need to buy into is, especially as christians, is that our religion is based on love of neighbor and love of self and love of god. i have more faith i think in the people who are listening to this rhetoric. more faith in the christians who know that our story is based on marginalized people being put into the center. our faith is based on the first shall be last and the last shall be first. a little child in the center of jesus' world. the people on the edge, the women, the poor, the stranger, are tore welcomed. >> jackie lewis, thank you. >> thank you for asking when to come. >> do appreciate it. >> we have more to come at the top of the hour. we're going to get to one of the most complicated questions everybody is asking or trying to find an answer for anyway. how is the war against isis to be won. when we come back. when it comes to helping you reach your financial goals,t
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it is 11:00 a.m. in new york, 5:00 p.m. in paris. this is msnbc's continuing coverage of the terror attacks in mali and paris. good morning. once again, i'm hairy smith in new york. we have a lot of breaking news to get to this hour. in belgium, officials have raised the terrorism alert level in the nations capital of brussels to the highest possible level amid precise warnings of a paris-style attack. police and soldiers have been deployed across the city and brussels subway system has been shut down as people are being urged to avoid public places. the u.s. embassy is urging u.s. citizens in brussels to shelter in place. and if they do go out, to avoid large crowds. in turkey, police are detained three people in connection with the attackings in paris. one of them is suspected of scouting potential targets for the attacks of november 13th. in the west, african -- in the
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west african nation of mali, officials are reportedly hunting for three suspects in friday's terror attack on a popular luxury hotel there. a group affiliated with al qaeda has reportedly claimed responsibility. officials now say 21 people were killed, including an american identified as anita detar of maryland. her family says she spent her career promoting international development. president obama who is in malaysia this morning for a regional summit, condemned the mali attack. >> we will stand with the people of mali as they work to rid their country of terrorists and strengthen their democracy. with allies and partners, the united states will be relentless against those who target our citizens. we'll continue to root out terrorist networks. we will not allow these killers to have a safe haven want to go now live to nbc news correspondent keir simmons who is in mali. keir is there at the -- in the area where the attack happened
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yesterday. give us the latest. keir, good morning. >> harry, good morning. what you can see behind me is the entrance to the radisson hotel, where this attack happened yesterday. the gunmen stormed in and started firing anything that moved, witnesses say. you can see behind me now the vehicle here is collecting luggage from guests who have abandoned their belongings in terror during the attacks. these guys have been coming and going regularly. there were 170 guests inside the hotel. some guests have been coming to get their own belongs. we spoke to some. they clearly are in shock. not wanting to speak. but one man said he cowered in his room until rescuers came to get him. some people saying they had to wait for some hours before they were rescued.
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what happened was rescuers from mali, the french, even two off-duty security agents, american off-duty security agents, came and began to pull people out of this building. while the mali military took on those shooters. two of them were killed. they now say three are on the run. they're searching for them. so potentially five people involved in this terror cell. that is why the american embassy is urging american citizens here to limit their movements. harry. >> mali can be -- certain sections of mali can be dicey at best. this is one of those places that was thought to be somewhat secure. a safe place where if you're going to gather, if you're a westerner doing some sort of development business there, that was a place you could be and feel reasonably safe.
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>> yes, that's right, they are used to these kinds of attacks in mali. not so much here in the capital. there was an attack earlier this year about how much of the hotel you can see behind me, but you may be able to make out the familiar radisson sign. this was a sanctuary for many westerners. the gunmen would have known that and that's why they came here. the intention was clearly to try to attack westerners. there was also chinese here, russians too. mali being a former french colony, this will be interpreted as another attack on the french. as you mentioned at the top there, harry, it is being claimed by an isis affiliate, sorry, b sorry, by an al qaeda affiliate, at least in part by last week's terror attacks claimed by isis, and this raises this very worrying specter of a competition between isis and al qaeda to see which of the two
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groups can carry out the bloodiest massacres. >> keir simmons with us live from mali. thank you very, very much. appreciate it. belgiums capital city is on virtual lockdown after officials raised the terror alert in brussels to its highest level. i want to bring in our correspondent. what can you tell me about what prompted the alert? what does it feel like there now? >> well what prompted the alert, harry, was a notice by the authority here in belgium saying they were aware of a significant and real imminent threat. and they raised that level to number four which is the highest in the country. only the third time that level of alert has been raised to its highest. it is p it is a bid subdued, you might call it. behind me is the oil stock exchange. it's one of the main boulevard here in the city center. not many people out on street
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even though this is a pedestrian area. well, it's a mill tarrized zone. this is what it looked like. it's full of soldiers walking around, patrolling the streets. standing in front of sensitive targets like shopping centers, hotels, mcdonald's even. because of it, many shops have closed. not all of them. we've been out and about. it seems like restaurants, at least in this area, are remaining open. many districts here. there are 19 different districts in this city. all taking their own kind of precautions depending on what they've been advised. you may call it a feeling of cautious fear maybe, harry. >> cautious fear. thank you very, very much. i want to turn now to paris, where we're joined by nbc's kelly cobia. good to have you with us.
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>> harry, good morning, good afternoon to you. after noon in paris anyway where we're getting news of three more arrests in connection to the paris attacks. all in turkey. two syrians and one belgian national once again, a 26-year-old who goes by the name of ahmed demani. the three of them were actually watched and picked up a couple of days ago earlier this week in natalya. turkish media reports say they were spotted in antalya, trailed and picked up at a luxury hotel in that coastal city. the belgian is believed to have direct links to the paris att k attackers and was in some sort of contact with them. we understand understand from turkish investigators he was playing the role as some sort of scout for these paris attacks. no more details on what his role was. turkish media are reporting the syrians were sent in to turkey
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to retrieve damani and take him back across the border, back into isis territory. we also learned while there are reports, anyway, still unconfirmed that demani entered into turkey on the 14th of november, the day after the attacks, and he came in through amsterd amsterdam, but there are reports that there was no alert on him whatsoever, which is why he wasn't arrested at the airport, harry. >> kelly cobeila with us, thank you. while isis has claimed responsibility for the attacks in paris, an al qaeda affiliate group is taking credit for the deadly attack in mali. joining me now is hillary man leave receive leverette, middle east expert for both the clinton and george w. bush administrations. good morning. we spoke about a week ago, just when these attacks in paris were fresh. as we've learned a lot about who is responsible, about some of the travels of those
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responsible, and now with this al qaeda-claimed attack in mali, just give me some of your thoughts off the top of your head. >> clearly we're dealing with two very dangerous organizations. in some ways, we learned a lot about al qaeda, particularly after 9/11, but even before, because they had bombed us, our embassies in kenya and tanzania. >> back to '88. >> exactly. we'd known about al qaeda and got really smart about al qaeda after 9/11. we took, in my view, some problematic policy decisions, but we learned a lot. the biggest thing we learned is they are, you can boil it down to a militia. a militia that can embed itself in locally-driven grievances. whether mali, yemen, syria, other places. a militia that can bring a lot of force to bear. what isis is doing, so much more dangerous, it's building a culture. a culture that -- to which people can emigrate. they can move from, physically or mentally, virtually, from
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belgium or france to this isis, this islamic caliphate that they're trying to build. to me, that's the longer-term problem. but we still have this potent force in al qaeda that continues to grow. again, i come back to the policy mistakes. even though we understand it's a militia, we've mailde this big mistake in yemen. we've helped them grow and grow in yemen. similarly, tactical mistakes elsewhere. they've continued to grow while isis develops this culture. now this huge double whammy. al qaeda with their militia able to deploy any time and this culture of fighting and building an islamic state. >> we have a map, right, of that, included africa, and include the middle east. there would be splotches all over the place of isis/al qaeda/bisis/al qaeda
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isis/al qaeda/bow ka haram. would it be too far to say epidemic? >> el with, it's epidemic in a way. there is this culture being grouped in isis. there's this prozmtsw we rarely talk about. which is we go into countries. we take out what we call dictators. and leave battlefields open for both isis to embed its culture and al qaeda to come with its militia. we did that in libya. in syria. which have opened up libya for north africa. opened up a huge terrain and tremendous trove, billions of dollars of weapons that people in mali can seize and use there. the same thing for syria, that's now the treasure trove for syria throughout the lavant. >> because of the isis caliphate in syria, that area, they've taken oil fields. >> yes. >> ap report of tens of thousands of barrels of oil that come out of there every day. they have their own bank. they can sell this stuff on the black market. >> they have billions of dollars
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of u.s. weapons which they just seized from mosul and other places. these groups which sea we train these moderate groups. they just go and take the weapons right from them. they have a tremendous amount of money and weapons at their disposal. do you then bomb the oil wells? if you bomb the oil wells, you're dealing with millions of people who have no access to oil or gasoline for winter. >> another humanitarian -- >> you take out the oil, you're taking out their access to energy. so people have heat in deadly cold winters. the same thing when you bomb a hospital in konduz in afghanistan, you think, it's the taliban there. but it's creating a humanitarian problem which surges recruitment to places like isis out of sympathy. >> very quickly, think about this, there was a range of attacks that happened day -- week after week after week after week. until it lands on our front doorstep with our best old friend, paris, then we go, oh,
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my god, right? it happened in turkey. it had happened in lebanon. in the days before. >> right, even in saudi arabia itself. in iraq certainly. >> constantly. >> and then, you know, here and then president obama i think meaning well came out and said this is an attack on the civilized world. that went down very badly throughout the muslim world. which again we have to watch out what we do, which surges recruitment to these organizations. we can't just kill them all. i remember the bush administration, being in the situation room with rumsfeld. he said, are we creating more terrorists than we're killing? that's a critically important question. >> i wish he had said that out loud. sorry. we're going to take a break. if isis is such an unconventional enemy, how do we wage a war against it? we'll talk about that when we come back. technology empowers us to achieve more.
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on thursday, defense secretary ash carter spoke with msnbc's "morning joe" about what seems undeniable since last week's deadly attack on paris. >> we have to defeat isil. you see the barbarism associated with this. so it is something that must be defeated. >> so you agree with the french president, that we're at war? >> yes. >> there's been no official declaration of war from the united states. that requires a formal authorization by congress of course. to the extent an armed conflict between the u.s. and isis equates to a war, our country has already been engaged in that conflict for months. since august of last year, the united states and its allies have been conducting military operations against isis, dropping nearly 29,000 weapons.
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that's 67 a day that's damaged or destroyed more than 16,000 isis targets. that's according to the united states central command. the air mission led primarily by the united states has been supported on the ground by about 3,500 u.s. troops deployed by the pentagon to advise and assist kurdish forces and the iraqi army in the fight. those air raids have succeceede in eliminating some of isis' leadership. after more than a year of assaults on isis, the group confounded all expectations with the wave of terror it unleashed last week in paris and then just the day before in beirut and it left the united states and its global allies reeling with the question that cnn's jim acosta put plainly to president obama at the g-20 summit on monday. >> the question is, if you'll forgive the language, why can't we take out these bastards? >> as president obama pointed
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out in his defense of the u.s. strategy against isis, the answer to that question is complicated. >> this is not, as i said, a traditional military opponent. we can retake territory. and as long as we leave our troops there, we can hold it. but that does not solve the underlying problem of elimina eliminating dynamics that are producing these kind of violent extremist groups. >> unlike more traditional terror groups, isis does not rely on the support of state sponsors or foreign funding to thrive but the group has been able to act as a state by taking over and holding a vast swath land on the border of syria and iraq funding itself with the assets it seizes as it acquires territory, including tens of thousands of barrels of oil. it also uses that territory to
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plan its operations and to train jihadists who then return home to execute terror plots like the attack on paris. but isis also exists beyond those boundaries thanks to a sophisticated digital marketing campaign via social media. that has allowed the group to spread its message and influence around the world. and to inspire and recruit followers to commit acts of terror against the west without ever leaving home. so if isis is an untraditional enemy, which as the paris attacks demonstrated, is also capable of the unexpected, how does the united states and how do its allies wage a war and win? back with me now, hillary, a former white house and middle east expert for the bill clinton and george bush administrations. also with us, an iraq war veteran and founding center for the advancement of security studies at valley forge military college. and clarence luse in, chairman
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of howard university political science department and expert on international relations. welcome back. welcome, welcome, welcome. earl, you've been one of those guys with a gun walking through hostile territory. a place where there's very little known that's for sure. this is what we're talking about. if you -- if somebody -- if the president of the united states called you up this afternoon and said, give me your plan a to fight this surge, what would it be? >> first, it would be -- it would have to engage in two different domains. believe it or not, the military domain is a lot easier to handle than the informational one because of the ideological point with it. all of jihadists are global jihadist movements. so the military campaign first. ramp up the advisory capability. there's two missions that are out there that can be conflated
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in the media. one is the training capacity that the military, the 3,500, needs to be ramped up. and then the next part is the embedding down to the company level of mobile advisers. they have to be blood brothers. they have to be sharing and spilling the same blood so that way we are vested in our arab partners. couple that with the reinforcement of our gulf countries, our support for our gulf countries and saudi arabia. >> assume that will be waged and it became a winnable battle. what happened after we left a rock? >> you said it right there, we left. that doesn't mean a force there but presence has to be now in our other domain, the diplomacy. where you actually have to stop and be able to have somebody next to an al maliki before he does the sunni purge of purging
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from the military, all really strong points of iraqi government. we had the sunni tribal leadership, we had it won, and we had it "j we left and then it allowed the al maliki group to purge it. this, think it's overstated the connection between the shia connection, between the iranian -- there is a -- i think it's alignment, but it needs to be -- but it will disappear as soon as the entrants go away. >> quickly though, it's not american forces. american forces -- >> -- as advisers, absolutely. you don't need maneuver divisions. >> all right, okay. from your perspective, as you look at this, this is coming up against all we hold sacred, right? we think about that attack that happened on friday night. this is part of the french soul. this is who they are. this is about joie de vivre.
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you can hear the glasses tinkling. feel the laughter peeling out of the night spots. these people took this soft target and said, you are all vulnerable. how do you go about fighting a force like this? >> well, there are a couple of things. although president obama spoke in halting terms from the clip you just showed, he's absolutely right. this is a multidimensional problem that has to address not only the effects of what isis and al qaeda and other groups are doing, but also you have to get at the causes. you can't just mop up the water, you have to cut off the faucet. part of the way to do that, first of all, there needs to be a genius international coalition. it can't be a situation where you get attacked, as in france or in russia, and then you jump into the fray. it really has to be a deliberative coalition that not only includes the states who are engaged, but also countries like
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bra brazil, for example, or india, who were engaged in negotiations with syria, for example in 2010. you have to bring in a world coalition. also a strategy that's not just military but really effectively addresses the conditions that give rise to the anger and to the resentment. and most profoundly, i think, the alienation. that exists both in the region but also in europe and other places. and europe where i spent a lot of time working in those communities in the northern part of france, in northern part of paris, in england, in germany, the resentment grew because these young people felt alienated. these young people who don't feel any connections with the countries where their parents or grandparents came from. they were born and raised in these country bus they don't feel part of these countries. you get messages from leaders like sarkozy, like merkel, like cameron, that says multiculturalism has failed. that message says, you're not
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welcome. although you're french. although you're english. although you're german. although you're spanish. you're not seen as welcome. while that doesn't by far make most of the people who live in these regions turn into terrorists, what it does, it creates an environment under which, then, they can -- people can be bred. >> all right. we're going to take a break. up next what president obama says is essential to defeating isis. and cry here. scream over here and freak out over there! and maybe go back to laughing here. and crying there. try not to laugh here though, it's rude. and maybe don't cry here, people will get the wrong idea. get the best of both worlds. directv at home and 2 wireless lines. from directv and at&t.
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shelter in place. if they do go out, to avoid large crowds. and in a new potential link has emerged in turkey, where police have detained three people. one of them reportedly accused of scouting sites for the paris attack. want to look now at one of the key challenges in the tactical approach to war against isis, that is how to hold territory, one. president obama addressed the issue uearlier this week. >> our ability to shrink the space in which they can operation, combined with a resolution to the syria situation, which will reduce the freedom with which they feel they can operate. and getting local forces who are able to hold and keep them out over the long term. that ultimately is going to be what's going to make a difference. it's going to take some time. >> we're joined again by our panel. i watt to talk a little bit about what you were talking about earlier, this sort of
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notion of a coalition, right, to bring a bunch of countries together, to say how do we address this, and here's how we can proceed. does that sound feasible to you? >> absolutely. we did this during world war 2 in the most successful way in our history. we can do it again. it's pretty simple but people hate to talk about it. we need to recognize who is the authority in syria. there are 100,000 syrian government troops on the ground. we have to kind of hold our nose, deal with the government there. >> the russians are saying so maybe we just let this chill for a while and sort some things out. >> yeah, you know, people -- we make mistakes. i work for the bush administration. they certainly made mistakes. the two principal ones were overthrowing gadhafi and opening up libya as a battlefield and trying to overthrow assad and opening up that as a battlefield. we have to now say that was a mistake. we need to deal with the outside government. we dealt with stalin, we can deal with putin. and the iranians.
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those are the factors on the ground on a military basis. then in europe, there's a soft apartheid going on in europe that needs to be addressed. that's critically important. we can't hold on to our so-called allies. our so-called allies have been killing us literally since 9/11 principally in the saudis. the saudi ideology of wahhabism is responsible for fuelling this kind of jihadi terrorism. it's just not that complicated but it involves political will to accept and change course. >> it takes some real adult sort of decision making and sort of fact-stating in order to really divide these pieces. what were talking about before, because this is also a battle, it's not just a battle on the battlefield, but it's a battle for hearts and minds. is there a way that people can wake up in europe, for instance, and say, you know what, we
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actually, say for instance, in france, there was a whole battle about whether or not women could wear head covers, right? they're saying, well, that's not french. well, could you have a head covering and be french? >> absolutely. let me point out the european union, the council of europe for at least the last 15 years, has very strong what they call directives. basically policies. to really push for more social inclusion. more racial ekwaquality, more respect for human rights. france has been one of the countries that's been dragging on implementation on some of those policyings. >> so the french reasked that question of themselves, to you think? >> absolutely. remember, there were riots in french. going back to 2010. that were part of this -- what we're seeing manifesting now. it was really the response by the french government that -- by sarkozy, for example that
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alienated those people even more. >> i need a last word from earl. >> part of the problem is this conversation we're actually trying to make a blanket. looking from an american perspective, the idea of what it is to be free, liberty, all these things. we have to embed ourselves within the culture and come up with those solutions that may -- like hillary said, we may not like them and we may not be able to stand them now but we have to accept that. there is a certain level of control. population control. embedded within certain cultures that is not going to be okay with us. you can see it in france with the state of emergency. >> thank you all for being here. we may see you again in the not too distance future. don't go too far away. still to come this morning, the terror attack that goes beyond the physical violence. the attack on the psyche and how to fight back. d clearer skin. this is my body of proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation
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♪ (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. good morning, again, i'm harry smith in new york. this is msnbc's continuing coverage of the terror attacks
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in paris. breaking news, belgian officials have raised the terror alert in brussels to its highest level, amid precise warnings of paris-style attacks. heavily armed police and soldiers have been deployed across the city and people are urged to avoid public spaces. the u.s. embassy is urging american citizens in brussels to shelter in place. and if they do go out, to avoid large crowds. and the search for suspects has now spread to turkey. where three people have been detained. one of them is suspected of scouting sites for the paris attacks. want to go now to nbc news correspondent claudio levigna in brussels. what is going on there now? >> the reaction of the people here after the alert was raised to the highest level, number four, can only be described as shocked. they are shocked. they are confused, also confused of course. well, it seems like that even
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though they were all aware that really ten minutes drive away from here, from the city center, we're understanding there's molenbeek, that's the neighborhood where a number of terrorists took part in the commando from last friday's attacks in paris were born, raised and radicalized. they were aware that neighborhood has produced a lot of -- from the mentalists in the past and is a haven of extremism. they never thought terrorism could knock at their doors. and that's what's interesting here. they knew this was a place of a kind of safe haven for islamic extremism. they never thought it would spill out of the neighborhood. they were aware from there they would go and commit atrocious attacks, for instance, miles away, to paris, but not ten minutes away from that neighborhood. and now, right now, it's kind of a is be dued atmosphere here. you see people walking by. not many in the main boulevard, the shopping boulevard behind
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me. there's a lot of shops closed. there's a lot of police. there's a lot of police and soldiers in the street. this doesn't look like brussels anymore. this looks like a military zone, harry. >> claudio lavagne, thank you. up next, the psychological toll of terrorism. if terrorists can strike anywhere at any time, how do you feel safe? and i'm still struggling with my diabetes.
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welcome back to msnbc's coverage of the terror attacks in paris. of course, recent attacks are not limited just to paris. just listen to this. october 10th at a peace rally in ankara, turkey, two suicide bombers exploded 22 pounds of tnt, killing 97 and injuring scores of others. october 31st, the sinai peninsula. a russian airliner flying from
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sharm el sheikh egypt crashes killing all 224 people on board. isis claims responsibility. the russians now say yeah, they did it. they say they brought down the plane using a soda can bomb. beirut, lebanon. two isis suicide bombers kill 43 people in an area -- well that area was plenty conflicted 25 years ago. this was a pretty safe place. injuring more than 200 in the shopping district. november 13th, bagbaghdad, 26 killed, dozens injured. a suicide blast at a memorial service and a roadside bomb at a shiite shrine. also in paris, 129, now 30, killed, and hundreds more injured in multiple shootings and bombings around the city. just yesterday, terrorists struck the radisson blu hotel in mali, killing at least 20. a peace rally, a plane, a shopping district, a funeral, concert venue.
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the message pretty clear. the attack can come just about anywhere. any of the venues of daily routine of life. and that of course is a key tactic of terrorism to instill a fear that it could happen to you. to your family. no matter who you are and where you are. it is a mental anguish on top of an already physical violence. we'll talk about that this morning and how to deal with isis from a military perspective as well. first, we want to turn to the psychological idea of this and bring in dr. jonathan, psychiatrist and director of the center for medicine, health and society at vanderbilt university. doctor, good morning. >> good morning. >> for a week now, channels like this, on the "today" show, on "the nightly news," we've just seen this sheet upon sheet upon sheet upon sheet of coverage of terror, of fear, we hear a lot of voices of fear.
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if you're a normal person, drinking this all in, how do you say -- how do you not let it affect you or is it possible? >> i think one of the factors that it's very important to take note of, there is a psychological mechanism that happens. well beyond the seemingly senseless acts of violence. we psychiatrists call that -- what we call it is a catastrophic loss of innocence. that results not just from the direct affects of terrorism but the heightened sen, exact lib as you described that seemingly safe places, places of sanctuary, places we go to interact safely with other people like churches or movie theaters or the public square, concert halls, these all a sudden shift from being places of safety to places of peril. i think we also agree this sense of anxiety i think is a good way
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to describe it is heightened by the sense that the usual rules or safety markers that we use to kind of unconsciously reassure ourselves. things like a sense that the government is in control or we're all playing by the same rules of society, that these factors are not at play. they can't keep us safe in a way. on one hand, i think it's not surprising in the aftermath of events like this, we see a general sense of terror that extends far beyond, far beyond the radius. >> we did this whole laundry list of all these attacks but quite honestly, as americans, we're so myopic. until it happens in paris, we don't react to it very much, quite frankly. this thing happens in paris. it unfolds. we watch and we watch and we watch. i have to confess, it brought back memories, to me, of being in new york and climbing into the subway for the first time after 9/11 and being scared witless. and it was like that for day one and two day and day three and
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day four. not so much in the second week and not so much in the third week. is it normal to feel like this? >> well, certainly, i think that comparison is apt. some of the other panelists were kind of referencing this. we need to ask ourselves as a society why is it certain kinds of violence or certain kinds of victims elicit this communal sense of terror and other forms of violence? partially, it's just a factor of the narratives we tell ourselves. what kind of violence elicits empathy? what kind of people elicit empat empathy? in that regard, examining not just the actual act, but the larger cultural scripts. i also think -- i also think mental health has a very large role here. on one hand, as psychiatrists, part of what we do is try to restore people's sense of individual control. so we teach people, don't watch too much television or don't check twitter too often.
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try to control your breathing. try to do other things that restore your sense of control in an uncontrollable environment. i also think it's incumbent on the mental health field to speak out about the larger cultural narrati narratives. factors like don't trust your neighbor or blaming other kinds of people that don't have anything to do with the terror attack itself. in that sense, i think mental health also has an important role in really restoring our communal psychology and talking about the oneness of humanity, which i think is one of the strongest factors we can use to fight back in times like this. >> oneness of humanity. thank you very much. i'm just going to bring in the panel here just very quickly. you've got kids, right? >> yes, yes, i do. >> as you think about your day-to-day life are you rethinking anything? >> i will confess that thinking about them all, i have three young children. i have a 2-week-old daughter, and i do have a sense that -- this is someone that, you know,
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this is what i do, think about this all the time, but i do have a sense of what do i do if that happens. it's a tradeoff. at the same time, am i going to cartel my life? that's different. no, my li life, no, and i'm an adult and it is a pry mal aimal and feeli that, and so it is more of a primal feeling whether it is a school shooting or something like this. >> and on the oneness of humanity, are we thinking of that? >> my own experience is that it goes over many year, and one of my dear friends was blown up in the plane over lockerbie, and so i have learned that this could happy to anybody at any time, and you can't lose sight of the values. the values is that it is an inclusive world, and it can be overcome. >> i went with my son to the statue of liberty, and the coast guard came right up to the the
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ferry, two coast guards with machine gun, and he said, i thought that the coast guard is to rescue people, and i said, yes sh, but they have to rescue if somebody tries to do something to the boat. but he can't kill everybody. and even my 7-year-old is thinking of this in a profound way and it is incumbent on all of us to do it. >> hillary mann leverett and we thank all of you. when we come back, we will look at how the city is moving forward. diabetes, steady is exciting.
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pa rrisians have turned a se
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of terror into a memorial. they are doing this in honor of the 130 killed. join me is kelly kobiya, who is there in paris. >> you can see that the messages here and flags around the world and messages and at the various restaurants, people are still come t coming to the sites and paying their respects and spending a quiet moment or two, but it is also getting to be a different feel in this city, harry. people, and this is a saturday. it is the saturday after. people are out and about, and they are on the sidewalks, and it is a wintry cold wet day, and yet, people are doing their shopping, and sitting at cafes, and it is, you know, you can't get a wai way from the fact tha
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is different from before the attacks. there is increased security still on the streets here in paris. and even as people here are trying to sort of move on and have a normal saturday in late november getting close to the holiday season, there are the constant reminders not just of the memorials, but also of the security presence on the streets, harry. >> i saw the piece that you did the about the people hugging each other, and the parisians will kiss each other, but they don't hug each other by nature, and that is extraordinary. >> and they do now, harry. >> thank you, kelly in paris. the continuing coverage of the attacks in paris and mali are going to continue with alex witt. and we will find out more about the developments in brussels and the attacks in coming from turkey. and now, we will also have an interview of what a woman said
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in an interview about instead of trying to escape, she played dead as others were shot. i'm harry smith, and we will continue. can help keep our town growing. on small business saturday, let's all shop small. for the neighborhood, the town, the home we love. on november 28th, shop small. whfight back fastts tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue and neutralizes stomach acid at the source tum, tum, tum, tum smoothies! only from tums was as long as the boat. for seven hours, we did battle. until i said... you will not beat...
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hello, everyone. we are a approaching high noon here in the east, and 9:00 a.m. out west. we begin with the capital of brussels under the nation's highest terror alert. and is service halted on the subway system as heavily a armed police and military deploy across the city in search of the suspect of last week's at a tacks in paris. and the citizens are urged to stay in place, and if they must go out, go out in crowds. and today, there was a belgian national who was in morocco and he has been arrested. he is believe ared to have been in contact with the attackers and scouted places for isis.


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