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good afternoon, breaking at this hour, another new video from isis. this one claiming the group has additional terror acts planned for europe and that people are in place to carry them out. also brussels on lockdown. the belgian government raising the capital city's terror alert to its highest level citing a serious and immediate threat. and a state of emergency in mali in the wake of friday's attack that killed at least 20 including one american. the ap reporting the hunt is now on for at least three suspects. we are following developments, of course, on two continents, europe and asia, as well as the reaction to the news back home here on the campaign trail. we begin this hour in brussels, a city on lockdown amid what officials call a serious and imminent threat, we're in the belgian capital. claudio, good evening. >> reporter: good evening, well, to say that the atmosphere here,
the vibe, is subdued may be an understatement. i'm standing over one of the man boulevard here in the city centers of brussels on a saturday night here is bustling. this is a fairly lively city, but just looking down, i mean, literally there are just a few people, just wandering around. and there are sometimes more soldiers than locals there on the street. this is what we've seen all day. a lot of soldiers, hundreds of them, patrolling the streets and guarding sensitive sites including shops and hotels. we've seen military vehicle were armored vehicle parked right in front of the building behind me. that's the old exchange here in brussels. and, of course, people are concerned. they are worried. we spoke to them, and they said that they are shocked, that they are simply not used to this. they're simply not to have their civil liberties also limited. and also their movement limited,
because they close down because of the highest -- highest state of alert was raised this morning following the threat. they shut down the entire subway system. they closed down restaurants, bars, museums, public libraries, everything that is public and that could attract large crowds that could potentially become targets for the terrorists. >> quite a scene you set. thank you. we'll head back to brussels in our next hour for more on the situation there. >> in the meantime let's go now to paris where we find thomas roberts and i know you've been following the updates throughout the day on the investigation there in france. >> reporter: good evening from paris. it's just after 8:00 here. and it is a chilly and cold night, but it's not raining as we've seen all week long and still the droves are people are coming out to the shrine that's behind me here at la republique
who lost their lives a week ago. this is the first official period where the parliament has backed hollande's request for the state of emergency that will be in effect through february. now, what that means is it gives broader sweeping power, security force power, to the french officials and their security forces to carry out raids on those that they consider to be suspicio suspicious. so it broadened the house arrest measures. administrative police can go in without meeting judicial authorization. also it will allow the facilitation and closure of any radical mosques that they deem to be radicalized. and this has been going on since november the 13th, i know you know that well, since your coverage here that police had that power. but now it is official that the government, the parliament, backing the request to carry that out for the next three months. and what that's going to mean 100,000 police forces are on the streets and in and around france
right now. 5,500 customs officials have been outed -- added that is to crack down on what many people in the eu would consider to be porous borders and from your reporting here you also know how important travel is throughout the eu. the economy for people to get around and for the tourism industry here in paris, it's very important. that took a major hit after "charlie hebdo," certainly they can't calculate what this attack from last friday is going to mean, but certainly it will have an effect. and we know that this was an attack on the way of life for people living here in paris. today i had a chance to sit down with one of the survivors at the bataclan theater, and she's a 28-year-old parisian woman named alix cical, she was in the pit, the center of the floor, where the big group of people were there for the eagles of death metal concert takiing place and she talks about what she most remembers vividly about the
attackers when they stormed in. >> the sound of them reloading their guns and shooting. we didn't know where and it kept on going. i think that we saw many, many other stuff, but for as long as we were in there there were -- there was that noise. and a silence, a deadly -- you know, a huge silence. it's -- i think that's what's, yeah, i don't know how to put it in correct words. but when they came in, a few seconds later, the entire concert, the entire room, went deadly silent and that's really heavy, you know, when 1,000 people just -- there's no noise.
>> reporter: just complete silence. now, a lot of people have been showing active defiance here in paris by going back out to their favorite cafes, by going back out to their bars, not letting those terrorists win by creating chaos and complete fear here for the parisian way of life. one thing, though, to point out to everybody is that all public demonstrations, they're banned, at least through tomorrow. so, that means no public gatherings. however, people are encouraged to come out and pay their respects at the different shrines and the memorials where those that were attacked and lost last week exist around the city. people are encouraged to come out to those, but no public gatherings until further notice. >> and it does seem there have been people around the clock at the, of course, monument behind you, thomas, thank you. we'll check in with you next hour. redland strategyies is here with us in the studio. nice to have you here. >> thank you. >> when we see the belgian
government raising the terror level there to the highest level. claudio laid out for us what it's like. interestingly belgium was under a lot of pressure and criticism this week for the way things had been handled prior to the terrorist attacks. is what we're seeing in belgium in terms to of the raids and arrests there a more proactive or reactive? how would you assess it today? >> the challenge for belgium is the staging city. typically what we've seen the terrorists don't really plan and stage in the target city. they go outside. and, therefore, not be detected. so, now belgium sits there and everyone says, wait a minute, where's your intelligence network that should have told us about the surveillance and the staging you've done there? and belgium has said all bets are off and we'll shut down the city and go after all the suspects we can possibly round up and now we'll show a very, very high level of the military involved here. so, the question is, is that reactive or did they see something coming ahead of time.
>> how many, just based on what you know based on what you've done in your career and also what you're watching here, how many of these raids do you think were people who they did have their eye on for some time but maybe decided to act now instead of waiting for something else to happen? >> obviously the timing is curious. why do these things come to light now as opposed to prior to the attack itself? what was the stage of their investigation? many times what a lot of governments will do if there is a threat that's out there, they'll shut down their known contacts. the problem there, though, of course, your sources may go underground and you may have developing information and yet now everyone's going to scatter and that's really one of the challenges you have. when do you act to shut down a network before you can maybe get to the head guy and that's what really everybody's searching for is who is the true mastermind of all these things. and what's out there in terms of other attacks. >> and everyone, of course, hoping that nothing is, but that is the big fear, something could be coming up. in the meantime in paris as thomas was saying there's a ban on demonstrations through the end of the month.
this is, though -- this is a way of life in france. they take those civil liberties very seriously. the right to demonstrate, the right to speak out freely. how do you balance that with the very real need for security? >> right now if you had another attack in paris, god forbid, it would be devastating. more devastating than actually the first one in terms of the national psyche. -- security forces so you have to obviously prevent that from happening. the best way to do that is basically throw a blanket over the city and really kind of control movement, make sure that you know who is coming in and out to the extent that you can and maybe wait for the bad guys to kind of break and go get them. at the same time, how do you return back to normal life. that's, again, that kind of balance. how long do you go. and there's also a question about resource use and sustainability of that type of massive effort, the number of police officers on the street. how long can you maintain that? >> so, is that something that they just watch? i mean, in terms of, okay, we'll see how it's going, it's a week out, it's two weeks out and it's
really just a day-by-day assessment? >> it's a constant assessment back and forth and you got to make sure it matches your intelligence, though, the information that you have you got to make sure you have the resources to react but continue to be proactive and what else is out there and see coming. there's so much talk to about in intelligence sharing with the eu and other countries notably the united states. we know the u.s. has sent over at least fbi investigators and other folks there on the ground. how do you think they are all working together? so what is the role that those u.s. intelligence officials are playing today? >> well, essentially what you have is what they call -- it's a program in the fbi where they actually send over folks who have very good relationships with the existing diplomatic corps, obviously the state department, the central int intelligence agency and they do -- they have people on the ground now and what they've really done now is they've sent investigators over. but there's always been this constant share of information. you know, france it's to be emphasized is one of the top intelligence organizations in the world. and so they have a lot of
resources and they've changed their laws to make sure that they can surveil without warrants. >> are we learning more from them, then, do you think? >> no. i think that obviously what goes on in their city they probably have much better on-the-ground resources than we do, but it's all kind of sharing back and forth. and obviously they weren't able to anticipate this attack, so whatever they put in place wasn't perfect, but then again, it never is. intelligence is so much more of an art than a science and so right now it's all about the information, where it's going to lead you, and basically, you know, do the link analysis chart. forensically, what happened, how did they get here, what with their sources. >> and that's one of the major questions everybody is trying to answer, how did they get there. good to have you here with us, michael. >> thank you. we'll return live to paris to look at how the latest arrests and alerts in belgium are impacting parisiaparisians. you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course. don't forget grandpa.
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to turn them away and say there's no way you can ever get here would play right into the terrorists' hands. they want frightened people to think in terms of us versus them. they want us to turn our backs on muslims victimized by terrorism. >> those words new today from vice president joe biden delivering the weekly white house address today, pushing back on governors and congress who want to keep syrian refugees out of the united states. president obama, in the meantime, is in malaysia today at a summit with the association of southeast nations and also weighing in on the refugee controversy at home. the president visited a school for refugee children, and in an apparent rebuke to those against allowing syrian refugees into the united states, said that these children were indistinguishable from any child in america.
nbc's ron allen is traveling with the president in kuala lumpur and joins us now with more. >> reporter: erika, as you know the obama administration has a plan to admit some 10,000 syrian refugees into the united states and it's run into a lot of criticism back in the united states with the house passing a bill to block that. president obama on his trip to asia has spoken out forcefully about this, been highly critical of those who want to keep refugees out of this country saying that these are women, widows, children, orphans, families who we should embrace. today here in malaysia he visited a foundation that supports children who are refugees primarily from burma, but 150,000 here in malaysia, trying to put a human, soft face on this issue, saying that these are children just like children in america, children who could be refugees from iraq, syria. here's some of what the president had to say -- >> the notion that somehow we would be fearful of them, that our politics would somehow leave
us to turn our sights away from their plight, is not representative of the best of who we are. >> reporter: the president is here in malaysia primarily for summits about regional security issues and trade. especially that trans-pacific partnership the historic trade deal that the united states agreed to with 11 other nations from this part of the world, that the united states is trying to push the congress to approve, something the obama administration is running in to some difficulty with. when he returns home he'll also try to deal with the refugee visit and he'll get a visit from the president of france to discuss the fight against isis. here also the president spoke out about those attacks in mali condemning them and praising those who tried to help save lives. now back to you, erika. >> ron allen for us fotonight, thank you. turning back to europe and the unrest in the wake of the deadly attacks in paris, in brussels heavily harm armed pol and soldiers patrolled their streets and shut their doors.
this as news of four new arrests tied to last week's attacks across europe. one arrest coming in brussels. three out of turkey. joining me "time" magazine's vivian walt. give us a sense. what's the latest in terms of the investigation today? >> well, the action has really been in brussels today and in turkey, in fact. and you've had basically the investigation fan out across europe. you had some arrests in brussels and most critically arrests in the coastal center of antalya in turkey, where they found what they think might be the link to the paris attacks, the man who actually did the location scouting for the attacks. so, this would be someone who was fairly obviously very trusted by the isis command. plus, two syrians who appeared to be able to take him back across the turkish border into syria. and i think it's kind of a
measure of how much things have changed, the fact that they did make this arrest so quickly in turkey, whereas so many others have slipped through the cracks until now. >> is it as simple as governments across europe and in other countries are simply paying more attention? is that why it happened so quickly? >> absolutely. they are paying a lot more attention. there's been obviously tremendous pressure by the french government on the european partners. and on turkey as well to tighten up border control, tighten up surveillance. there's been tremendous soul searching and sort of anguish if you like among the french people as to how this might have happened and how this many attackers might have, you know, coordinated their action in the heart of the capital without anybody noticing. so, i -- it does appear that a lot has changed in the past
week. >> one of the other things, too, that we saw there have been these incredible numbers coming out every day from the french about the hundreds of searches and raids we're being told about. how important are those as we move forward in this investigation? are they -- are they bringing up a lot of intelligence? we know certain people have been rounded up. there are people under house arrest. there have been weapons that have been rounded up, but are we learning more yet about potential for intelligence coming out of that? >> well, you know, bits and pieces of information have been coming out over the last few days. and one has to wonder where it has come from. and you can only imagine that some of it must have been coming from interrogations of those who have been picked up in the last week. of course, the question is why were these people not questioned before and how did they drop off surveillance before last friday's attacks. but this is not that unusual for hundreds of people to be rounded up in the wake of the "charlie
hebdo" attacks last january, there were literally hundreds of people who got hauled into interrogations, many of them spent, you know, weeks or months under some form of custody. so, the french are, you know, very accustomed to doing this kind of response to terrorist action like this. >> what is the sense, the arrests this -- this terror alert level in brussels? everything that we're seeing out of belgium in the last 24 to 48 hours, how is that impacting the psyche in paris? >> you know, in some ways you can really, really feel the level of tension going down in paris. and you could feel it almost immediately after the government announced that they had killed the mastermind behind the terrorist attacks. they announced that on thursday morning. and there was this collective sigh of relief. and now, yes, of course, it's very nerve-racking that
brussels, which is only an hour and a half away by train, it's kind of like the suburbs for many people, many people commute between brussels and paris. but nonetheless the fact that the brussels police have swung into action and made such quick arrests does suggest that things are really, you know, perhaps on the right track and that there is really a kind of concerted effort to roll up the network. >> vivian walt joining us from paris tonight, vivian, thank you. up next, a look inside the isis media machine. how the group gets its highly produced messages out to the world. how you doing? hey! how are you? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪
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online operations effectively declaring cyberwar on the militants. msnbc discovery desk editor cal perry is with us now. give us a sense, cal, what is anonymous actually doing here and is it helping or hurting this investigation? >> well, they've proven themselves very good at sort of the obvious public stuff that's already out there, so twitter accounts that are linked to isis, websites that are obviously linked to isis. they're good at getting that information out there. in the past what they've done, their online activism as what they would call it has listed a list of felonies for the u.s., they crashed the church of scientology and visa and paypal and sony pictures. they are good at getting the obvious stuff, what are their capabilities at the stuff we want to know the dark web stuff, the possible planning. that they haven't proven very well at yet. just as isis is good at getting people online and recruiting people online, anonymous is getting good at getting people who want to fight isis online
digitally. >> they are good at bringing those people in, do they harness them, you look at this guy, you look at this application, you look at this one, or is it much more sort of -- >> it's a one-way conversation. they publish manuals and they talk about how you can fight against isis online in the same way that isis puts their things online. so you have this one-way conversation but it does appear that isis or anonymous are able to effect each other in the digital space, they are sort of having this debate online. that's interesting in the sense that the u.s. military is starting to pay attention to this debate and they are starting to change their tactics a little bit even in what they are bombing in syria and we've heard u.s. officials say we're going to go after the media wing of isis, so if anonymous points the u.s. military in the right direction, i don't think it's a far stretch to think the u.s. military will act on that information. >> interesting to see that happening. you said, too, they are sort of crossing paths at this point isis and anonymous. do the isis people care at all
about what anonymous people are doing? >> publicly they say they don't. but we know that isis has a 24-hour help desk. >> this still blows my mind this help desk. >> this is crazy. it's nuts. we know it from analysts working for the u.s. army and it's staffed 24 hours a day if you are a jihadist you can check into this help desk for ways around various encryption packets that the authorities are doing but anonymous is doing. if you have an anonymous concern, if you have a concern about the group anonymous -- >> call the help desk. >> -- call the help desk. >> cal perry, thank you. videos of coalition strikes against isis being released by the pentagon, up next the targets they hit. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands
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mali, a former peace corps volunteer who was described by hillary clinton who knew her as representing the, quote, best of america's generous spirit. >> meantime, the hunt is on for at least three suspects in that attack that killed 19 others. and in turkey three alleged isis terrorists arrested. in belgium, that country's prime minister said authorities will reassess the terrorist threats tomorrow. those threats have the city on lockdown tonight. for the latest from paris we turn now to paris. we know the raising of the terror threat in belgium has had an impact there as we heard earlier from claudio. what about in paris? >> reporter: no direct effect here in paris, erika, as you know the city is already on a heightened state of alert. the state of emergency extended until february. and there's a ban on any sort of demonstrations at least until the end of this month. but nothing further than that from french police today.
there were some developments on the investigative end in turkey. a 26-year-old belgian national of moroccan descent was arrested. he was actually being watched and questioned over the past couple of days. his name is amette dahmani. he's believed to have traveled to syria -- sorry, to turkey, on november 14th, the day after the attacks, from amsterdam, that according to reports citing various turkish police sources. his role is believed to be some sort of scout or person checking -- doing reconnaissance for the sites that were attacked here in paris. and reports say that he did have direct contact with some of these paris attackers. there were also two other men arrested in turkey. both of them are syrian, and they are believed to have been sent into turkey from syria to escort this gentleman dam mahma
back. there were eight arrests you'll recall the morning of the raid, seven of those people have now been released. just one remaining in custody, the man who rented or loaned that apartment to abaaoud and others. he is still in french custody tonight. he claims that he didn't know they were terrorists. he was just doing them a favor, but he's still in custody, erika. >> kelly, thank you. coalition forces this week are trying to hit isis where it hurts, and that is in the pocketbook. just released video shows dramatic footage of targeted strikes on the terror group's oil reserves, black oil you can see shooting into the air in a targeted hit clearly made its mark there. want to bring in retired u.s. army colonel jack jacobs and medal of honor represent, a terror analyst. good to see you. >> you, too. >> we know this is a coalition
attack. is there any way to tell it's from a u.s. aircraft. >> there's no way of knowing because everybody has all kindsikind s sin sings of ordnance. that one had multiple explosions so it probably wasn't a sea launched or air launched cruise missile. this one is. >> this is this other video we're looking at now. >> you can actually if you look closely -- and there's another one, too. you can actually see the missile as it's entering from left to right onto the target. and there's a single explosion. this one doesn't. this one has several explosions. and they're either -- they're either secondary explosions or more likely a munition that has several submunitions like cluster bombs which we don't have but the russians do. we don't use them anymore. or we have a weapon that's called a chain gun that fires 30 millimeters exploding projectiles from an enormous machine gun shown here. and it's -- it has a rapid rate
of fire. it's absolutely devastating. you have multiple explosions on the ground. it's extremely accurate and it's fired from an a-10 warthog. a slow air-to-ground attack aircraft. and we know that -- everybody knows that we've got plenty of those there in the region. they fly out of incirlik air base in southern turkey so when you see multiple explosions like that, it's most like-from that. >> those strikes we know was targeting oil because that is what really finances this operation at least as we understand it. when does it start to make a difference financially on that end and then psychological? >> well, financially it will take a long time to make a difference because they already have plenty of money and in areas that they own, they not only have the oil they have the money in the banks. and it's going to take a long time to go through that because to be honest with you financing an operation like isis that relies on terror, small arms, automatic weapons, that doesn't
take a great deal of money. >> we saw the report earlier last week that some of the attacks may have cost less than $10,000 in pair ririparis. >> not only that the operations in the region don't cost a lot of money even when they are taking over areas. what probably will hurt over a long period of time is psychologically as you suggest. it's probably going to have a damper on recruitment which is the lifeblood of isis and it's also going to make it much more difficult for isis in the regions they control. because the morale is going to go down and so on. it's -- it's very important that you cut off the money. not for any immediate effect, but for the long-term effect. >> when it comes to, we were talking about trying to figure out who was hitting some of those targets and you mentioned that the cluster bombs, that the u u.s. doesn't have anymore but russia has and there's this dance going on not only between u.s. and russia but u.s., russia and france. can russia be trusted? >> no. but we've been allied with folks
we couldn't trust to great success and russia was one of them during the world war ii and one of them was stall in killed more nazis and sometimes you have to cozy up to people you can't stand north to get things done and one of the reasons we're in the predicament we are because we insisted on getting rid of people we couldn't stand who were blood thirsty despots and the result of getting rid of them, which we supported, turns out to be chaos. chaos is never very good no matter who you are supporting. the attacks in paris have sparked heated rhetoric on the campaign. gop front runner donald trump with new comments this week after appearing to call for a national database to track muslims in the u.s. here's what he had to say a couple hours ago where he appears to double down on those
remarks. >> just to set it clear, i want surveillance of these people. i want surveillance if we have to -- and i don't care. i don't surveillance of certain mosques, okay? if that's okay. i want surveillance. and do you know what, we've had it before and we'll have it again. i do want surveillance. i will absolutely take database on the people coming in from syria if we can't stop it but we're going to. and if i win, i've made it kn n known, if i win they're going back. we can't have them. they're going back. we can't have them. we can't have them. >> nbc's halle jackson joins us now live from the campaign trail from des moines, iowa. >> reporter: a winter wonder land in des moines, but donald trump is weather his own storm after the controversial comments about a muslim database. watch -- >> we had a good time.
they just said that -- >> reporter: after another controversy donald trump is clarifying. >> i was signing books and there was music blaring in the background. >> reporter: backtracking blaming background noise for mishearing an exchange with nbc news in which he didn't rule out a database tracking muslims in the u.s. >> i would certainly implement that. absolutely. >> reporter: and later? >> mr. trump, why would muslim databases not be the same thing as requiring jews to register in nazi germany? what would be the difference? is there a difference between the two? is there a difference -- >> who are you with? >> i'm with nbc news, is there a difference between registering jews? >> reporter: now trump says. >> i want a database for the syrian refugees that obama is going to let in if we don't stop him. >> reporter: looking to stem more fallout as jewish advosy groups denounce his remarks. so do democrats. >> but i don't think we should
be engaging in the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that i've been hearing from some of the republican candidates. >> reporter: his republican rivals? >> you talk about internment. you talk about closing mosques. you talk about registering people. and that's just wrong. >> i'm a big fan of donald trump's but i'm not a fan of government registries of american citizens. >> reporter: trump still the front runner at the top of our new nbc/survey monkey online poll but absent from this forum in iowa. interrupted by protesters early the loudest voices were saved for slamming president obama and his strategy. >> we had a president that spent more time attacking republicans than he did talking about how we're going to attack isis. >> reporter: you heard trump talk about the debate over syrian refugee, and president obama visited refugee children in malaysia. he promised as long as he's in office america will be a place where people who are
discriminated against, people facing violence, will be able to find safe haven, haerika? >> with new reports with possible fresh isis attacks in the planning pipeline, the question now for the united states are we really any safer in this country? the author of a new report is with us next. are you? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. whfight back fastts tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue and neutralizes stomach acid at the source
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been forgotten or who have been discriminated against or who have been tortured or who have been subject to unspeakable violence or have been separated from families at very young ages. that's american leadership. that's when we're the shining light on the hill. not when we respond on the basis of fear. >> adam goldman is national security reporter for "the washington post" and joins us now. adam, good afternoon. give us -- give us a sense -- i know you've looked in to this. how much of a security threat truly are syrian refugees to this country? >> you know, the bureau -- the fbi has a long history of dealing with refugees. they had to deal with many, many thousands of iraqis. at the end of the day, you know, they had that threat contained. if you look at the syrian refugees who are going to come here and the spots that are allotted, you're talking women, children, elderly, people who were tortured by the regime or
who are fleeing that violence, you know, my sources don't seem to be particularly worked up about it. >> so, your sources aren't that worked up. we know plenty of people are. >> yes. >> give us a sense of the current veening measures. we know it's a minimum of 18 months for refugees. as i understand it syrian refugees have to go through a little bit more screening at the moment than refugees from some other areas and yet there's this bill that would change things again. what is the difference between what is currently done and what the proposal is in congress? >> well, i mean, i think -- i think the fbi and dhs will simply just be taking a tougher look at these refugees. but, you know, one of the things they want them to do is have somebody in the national security cabinet or principals committee sign -- certify that each refugee being let in is, you know, is safe. and, you know, that in itself is placing -- can you imagine jeh
johnson having to certify every single refugee that comes into this country as safe or director comey or john brennan from the cia? i mean, you're placing enormous burden on one person. and let's be clear, you could have refugees coming in who have nothing to do with terrorism, you know, in two years they could be a criminal. they could kill somebody in a drug deal. they could hijack a car. this isn't unique, you know, to the fact that they're syrians. whenever you let -- you know, this could happen with any group of people. >> separately there's been a lot of talk since the attacks happened in paris about this sort of geographic insulation that the united states has in terms of feeling safer, in terms of a potential attack on u.s. soil. is that being overstated? >> i don't think so. you know, what happened in paris was -- was a difficult -- difficult plan to pull off, but they had certain advantages, porous borders. we don't have porous borders. we work very closely with the mexicans and the canadians.
we have a no-fly list with something like 48,000 people on it. getting into the united states is difficult. using a fake passport to get into this country would be very difficult. pulling off an organized attack like this in the united states would just simply be -- would be harder given the number of people that were involved certainly in the european end. the bigger threat that we face are the individuals who are inspired by isis and decide to go half-cocked and do something. that's -- that's the real concern i think for the -- for the fbi, tracking those people, making sure they're on top of them and prioritizing those particular threats. >> although there is some concern, i mean, we heard from fbi director comey, that there was something, like, i don't know, 9 00 folks that they were keeping an eye on possible ties to isis. how realistic is that threat versus the sort of regular, for lack of a better term, lone wolf threat? >> i mean, i guess it's as great as somebody going into a college
campus in oregon and shooting somebody up, right? or into virginia tech or to column bible bine or a theater r or a school in newtown and killing hundreds of people, you know, there are always individuals rely on themselves who might not have outside contact who will be able to pull something off. and, you know, those are simply, you know, many instances unstoppable. >> adam goldman joining us this afternoon, adam, thank you. >> you're welcome. take a short break and we'll return to paris with a look at the impact last week's attacks are having on one of france's most important industries. this is more than just a town. this is our home. and small business saturday... is more than just a day. it's our day... to shop small at the places we love... with the people we love. for stuff we can't get anywhere else. and food that tastes like home. because the money we spend here... can help keep our town growing. on small business saturday, let's all shop small. for the neighborhood, the town,
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raid along with two others. the hunt continues for a suspected accomplice. france is the world's leading tourist destination. and 83 million tourists visit every year and the french government is hoping to raise it to 100 million by 2030. and we've been talking to tourists and local business owners about terrorism's impact on tourism. olivia, good to see you. what are you hearing from both groups? >> reporter: of course, there has been a very immediate and very sharp drop-off in tourism. i spoke to the president of the hotel and restaurants union. he said last week restaurants did about 50% of their normal business and hotels saw their bookings fall by about 60% to 70%. we also went over to the tour boats on the seine and they are usually full in november. they said they are seeing 80% of their bookings canceled and school groups have canceled for the rest of the year because officials have decided it's not safe enough to bring big groups
of children into the city right now. i did find one american couple, though, who saw the attacks take place. they watched everything on tv and they decided to come anyway. i caught up with them and asked them if they had any stand-out moments. take a listen to what they had to say -- >> the one sort of standout moment in terms of the terrorist impact for me was that the cabdriver, you know, cautioned us, you know, as americans, hey, you know, maybe you want to avoid the more crowded places during the busy times. and i thought, you know, here's a guy whose probably in all kinds of pain. was actually there across the street when the nightclub was attacked, her heard the gunfire and the explosions and is caring about me as an american that's just amazing for him to do. >> reporter: so, they're having a great time. as for the sight of heavily harmed guards outside sites like notre dam and the louvre, they say it's frightening but also reassuring. erika? >> in the past we know other countries have seen some effect, long term, short term, give us a sense how other countries have
been affected after similar eve events? >> reporter: well, you know, after the 2005 terrorist attacks in london, london was very concerned they would see a sharp drop-off in tourism as well. 2005 turned out to be a very good year. paris thought it would ham after the "charlie hebdo" attacks, 2015 so far was the best year on record, but, of course, the "charlie hebdo" attacks were very targeted and what happened last friday felt very random, so it's a different impact. the head of the tourist and the restaurant and hotels union said already for december hotels are forecasting their business will be down by about 30% to 40% and restaurants also think they're going to lose about a third of their business. they said already people have started calling in particular to cancel their holiday parties ahead of christmas, erika? >> olivia stearns in paris tonight, thank you. so much new to report today. up next, we'll go back live to belgium where authorities have made four more arrests in connection with the paris attacks. the role those in custody may have played in the attacks just
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good afternoon, here's what we know new at this hour. brussels on lockdown. the belgian government raising the capital city's terror alert to its highest level citing a serious and immediate threat. there is another new video from isis. this one claiming the group has additional terror attacks planned for europe and that people are in place to carry them out. and a state of emergency in mali in the wake of friday's attack that killed at least 20 including one american. the ap reporting the hunt is on for at least three suspects. we want to bring in now nbc reporter from brussels tracking the security situation there. claudio, what's the latest? >> reporter: well, erika, the security alert has taken its toll here on the city. now outside of the city, though, i can see clearly the main boulevard in front of the city center the building over there behind me is the old stock exchange. this is the real lively, usually
lively, city center of brussels. and i can tell you it's 9:00 in the evening on a saturday night, not a soul on the street. literally a few people walking by, while many restaurants and bars and shops, they are all closed and people are afraid of going out as well. although you do hear here and there people saying, well, you know, if we don't go out, then the terrorists win. this is also what they've been telling us today, but people here are taking every precaution after hearing from the authorities, not only that a threat is imminent and serious but also that they fear that there may be a coordinated attack on multiple locations here in brussels paris style, erika. >> paris style, those are not the words anyone wants to hear, of course, claudio, thank you. want to turn now to paris, where we get the latest from thomas roberts. thomas, what are we hearing there on the ground? >> reporter: erika, so it
remains an active manhunt right now for the suspected eighth bomber. salah abdeslam who has last seen crossing into belgium going towards that border. that remains an active search. but this is a new normal for paris, for all of france as the parliament backed up president hollande's request for the three-month state of emergency, which broadens surveillance powers, which makes it much easier for security forces to take advantage of issues where before they might have had to get judicial warrants, they don't have to do that now for people of interest, people that they suspect might be involved in any type of terrorism cell. as claudio was talking about there, in brussels, while the streets are empty, the streets here in paris are full. it is a clearer night. more clear than what you've been used to while you were here, erika, where it was raining and cold, it's a little bit chilly, but it is clear and no rain, and so people continue to come out to the shrine here that's ever growing at the place de la
republique. candles and flowers as people all over paris are remembering those that were lost one week ago last night. 130 people, over 24 different nationalities that were taferrgd in this undisciplined attack throughout the streets of paris, where the terrorists just took aim at young people who were out at either a concert hall or at their favorite local cafe or at a football stadium. but specifically at the bataclan where they lost 89 people, it was a packed house. people there to see the eagles of death metal rock band concert. i spoke to one of the survivors today, she's 28 years old and her name is alix cical and she is really resilient in her belief that she will move on from this. slowly but surely. she was startled a little bit by noises in the cafe. she did not want us to come to her home to have this conversation, but she recounted to me how she was able to survive. basically? by playing opossum on the floor.
>> we were just two of us in the pit. and when they came in at first, we were laying down on the floor. i was on top of chloe or a lot of people were just laying down. they keeped on shooting and shooting and shooting. and reloading and reloading. and a guy i think someone of the crew of the security team of the bataclan at one point shout out "it's now, go." and we saw the emergency exit near the stage, near the stage on the left. and people got out that way. chloe got out that way at that point. but i couldn't make it because a guy was shot next to me. i turned. and a guy was shot just behind
me. so i was in their direct fire line, and i guess it's -- there were too many bodies. i couldn't make it. i was too far away from the exit, so i just play dead. >> reporter: so, alix and her friends they all survived the attack on the bataclan and they were able to regroup, and they were able to reconnect. one of her friends has even gotten a tattoo to symbolize the event of surviving that and had all of their names tattooed on his forearm with the logo of the eagles of death metal. meanwhile, erika, this is a country that considers itself to be at war with isis. so, there's been a definite show of military strength. we know from president hollande by the different air strikes that have happened in syria wrar, and we'll remind they moved the "charles de gaulle" into the mediterranean repositioning it is, that has 24 air jets on it
to continue these bombings that are taking place. and, erika, as we know, this is a conventional war method going up against a very unconventional target in their way of operations, and some people are saying that this will just be a continued cycle in france potentially for attack, revenge, attack, revenge. but the defiant way for certain parisians is just to go back to their way of life and get back to going out onto the streets here in paris. >> thomas, we certainly heard a lot of that, that they didn't want to let the terrorists win, so they needed to continue on with life as they live it every day. thomas roberts live in paris tonight, thank you. as terrorism analysts from the u.s. and around the globe try to piece together what they know at this point, one week after the attacks, brussels, belgium, waits. that city is on lockdown tonight as we heard from claudio, amid the highest possible threat warnings in that country. it's a scenario that has even stunned some veteran terrorism experts. >> this is extraordinary what's
going on in belgium right now. and for the size of the country, which is an extremely small country in europe, it tells me that they have gained some very accurate intelligence and have decided to act on it now. >> joshua katz is a former cia operations officer and joins us now. joshua, we just heard that terrorism analyst say they must have gleaned some very accurate information and decided to act on it now. would you agree with that assessment? >> i agree with it to some point. i think that if they had really accurate information, you would see -- be seeing a lot of raises going on and a lot more police activity. normally when governments do something like this, they have a credible threat. they probably have a bunch of credible threats and what they're trying to do is they're trying to keep people away from potential attack points. but i don't think they have that real specific piece of information. >> so, some of the arrests, then, that we've seen there and even the raids we've seen just in the past week in belgium, are those more situations that you
believe were being monitored and just out of an abundance of caution they decided to act now? >> well, i think what we're seeing here is a development of a bunch of different threads. one is, you know, tied to the -- the paris attack. there are a bunch of people that are out there that have supported that attack in some fashion or the other, and they're going after those people. there are additional threats now and they're trying to thwart those as well, so that's another vein and then there's the third which are just the bad actors that they're also trying to prevent from actually going operational. >> when it comes to comparing the way we're seeing things roll out in europe versus the way things happen in the united states, is there -- is it similar in the way the monitoring and the raids happen here in the u.s.? >> i think that it's completely different. the laws are completely different. the intelligence apparatus is completely different, how their security services are organized, completely different. there are a lot of similarities,
though, in the response, the unity of the people. and i think really at the -- at the common core the people, us, you, me, everybody who's watching, that's the core. that's the commonality. >> one of the things that's really stood out today when we're learning more from this turkish news agency about the arrests we saw in turkey, that agency reporting that one of the man -- one of the men, rather, is a belgian named ahmet dahmani and he potentially scouted attacks in the paris attacks. there's a lot of back and forth. there's some finger-pointing going on here. what is your sense of what's happening right now? >> well, i think that's unfortunate, right? i mean, there are 130 people who are dead. their families are in mourning. there's 300-plus people who are still injured from that attack. so, what we need to do now is we need to move forward. we need to develop a communication way, a way to
communicate intelligence in a safe, secure way so that we can share that information better. obviously that didn't happen here. but regardless, we need to move forward. and i think the turkish arrests here are just showing the future of what's coming. because there are a lot of other people that -- that are going to be arrested here over the coming weeks for some sort of support role in all of this. >> how quickly do you think that information sharing can actually be put into place? is this something that is weeks out? is it months out? or does it take years to get to the point where all of those countries are actually in a position that they can quickly and effectively share that intel? >> well, i think that we could do that really quickly. the problem is bureaucracies and everybody has their own, you know, their own way that they want to do it. so, it's going to take -- to cut through the bureaucracy unfortunately it will take years and a concerted effort through multiple different venues.
and i'm just hopeful here that -- that this is going to move us in that -- in that direction. but unfortunately, i haven't seen that yet. none of us have seen that yet. and i really implore all the governments here to really look to better that communication. >> joshua katz joining us this afternoon. joshua, thank you. >> thank you. one week after the terror attacks in paris, what has changed in the city of lights? we'll have much more of our continuing coverage right after this.
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controls more than 60% of syria's oil production capacity. president obama who is in malaysia today for a regional summit is condemning the attack in mali that claimed the life of an american citizen and 19 others. the president is vowing to root out terrorist networks around the world. >> we will stand with the people of mali as they work to rid their country of terrorists and strengthen their democracy. with allies and partners, the united states will be relentless against those who target our citizens. we will continue to root out terrorist networks. we will not allow these killers to have a safe haven. and in paris it's been one week since those deadly attacks claimed the lives of 130 people. the city of lights understandably still reeling a bit. how are residents coping? "the daily beast" chris dickey's has lived in paris for more than 20 years and joins us with some perspective. give us a sense, you've lived there so long, this is your
home. what is the reaction now one week on? >> well, you know, erika, i think people want to be brave but, in fact, they're feeling very fragile. the attacks a week and a day ago hit them where it hurts the most. it hit them in their daily lives. it hit them where they were living as parisians going to sidewalk cafes, going to concerts, going to a soccer game. all of that had a kind of a shattering effect. but i think we knew that. what i think people don't understand is that the news of the attacks, the fight in the suburb, north of the city, on wednesday, early wednesday morning, that really shocked people. they thought maybe the whole thing was over, and then they discovered it wasn't. and then they heard from the prime minister, that they should really be afraid, be very, very afraid. indeed, that there was a
possibility of chemical and biological attacks in this city, so i think people are really very nervous and -- and wondering what's going to happen next. >> there's that sense of nervousness, there's that fear, some of the survivors of the bataclan that i spoke with, one woman in particular very fearful and she can't go out of her apartment, but she wants people to feel angry. is there a sense of anger? and if so, where is it directed? >> well, i think it's directed at the so-called islamic state and also at the kinds of people who would justify what the -- what isis does and who would apologize for it. anything like that one fears as a rational being that there will be anger directed at anyone who is muslim. but i don't think that's happening yet, at least not in a neighborhood like this, a very mixed neighborhood. i think it's very well understood that a lot of the victims were people of arab, african, muslim descent. i was just at the -- at the
la belle equipe restaurant today where there are flowers and mementos all over the place as there are at other restaurants. 19 people died there. there were africans. there were arabs. nobody cared where they came from before they were killed, and i hope that nobody cares now what those differences are. but the focus should be obviously the focus should be on the lunatic zealots of the so-called islamic state. >> real quickly, i know you said to my colleague alex witt earlier today that many people in france feel alone in this fight. why is that? >> well, i think that they feel that they've been singled out for this attack, and that they are now trying to wage a war against isis and against islamists really around the world in lots of different places. i mean, the attack on the hotel in mali earlier this week was an
attack that probably was focused on hitting french people, because it is the french who have taken the lead fighting al qaeda and its affiliates in mali. so, i think the french are from a political point of view, internationally, are feeling very much alone. the nato hasn't backed them. the european union is sort of paying limb service to backing them. the u.n. passed a very strong resolution, but there probably will be other solutions -- resolutions watering that down. and i think they're really wondering who -- who is on their side now beyond a few facebook images of the french flag. >> chris dickey, appreciate having you with us tonight. thank you. >> thank you. still to come, a look at some of the harsh rhetoric towards muslims coming from the republican presidential candidates over the past week. taking small, manageable steps can be an effective... and enjoyable approach... compared to the alternatives.
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on the international manhunt for this man, salah abdeslam the lawyer for a man who rode back to belgium with the suspected paris attacker said abdeslam was extremely nervous and may have been wearing a suicide vest. we'll keep you updated with the very latest details on this manhunt as they come in. turning now to some of the remarks here in the united states ratcheting up the rhetoric on the campaign trail, gop presidential candidate donald trump just a short time ago in alabama talking again about muslims and a national database. trump now says if we do use a database it would be to track syrian refugees resettling in the u.s. take a listen -- >> here's the story, just to set it clear. i want surveillance of these people. i want surveillance if we have to, and i don't care. i want surveillance of certain mosques, okay? if that's okay. i want surveillance. and do you know what, we've had it before and we'll have it again. i do want surveillance. i will absolutely take database
on the people coming in from syria, if we can't stop it, but we're going to. and if i win, i've made it kn n known -- if i win, they're going back. we can't have them. they're going back. we can't have them. we can't have them. nbc's halle jackson joins us from iowa where trump made some comments to nbc news about a database. and we've been trying to flush this out, new comments we played from earlier today. >> reporter: yeah. >> as it stands, clear it up for us, what is donald trump proposing at this point? >> reporter: so, he was very clear today, erika, to say he was -- at the time he explained that he couldn't hear the questions posed by our nbc news reporter/producer who was out there asking him about this here in iowa a couple of nights ago. he said there was background music he said some little wise guy showed up and asked him questions about a muslim database. let's be clear the questions came from a print interview
trump had done earlier that day in which that had come up so that's what our producer was following up on. trump appeared to indicate that he would support that. you saw the tame of it over the last few days. today here's where trump stands, he would support a database of syrian refugees entering the united states since that war began over the last four years, about 2,000 refugees have come from syria and he said would increase surveillance on mosques and ben carson indicated he might support that as well. trump, you heard the crowd reaction there, the crowd really responded well to this today. typically the crowd has responded to trump's tough talk on topics like this and perhaps this is an indication of where the race was going, erika, there was talk right after the paris attacks that maybe this would shift the discussion more towards national security and foreign policy in this ralrales has but there was speculation that it may help give a boost to candidates positioning themselves as alternatives to trump who have said they are
more serious about national security than trump has been. that said, you heard the crowd reaction. trump is still doing well and is atop the nbc news/survey monkey online poll that came out within the last 24 hours. that was conducted after the paris attacks. >> you mentioned ben carson said he may support some surveillance on mosques but when it comes to some of the other comments about databases potentially on refugees, how are those sitting with some of the other republican candidates? >> reporter: we've heard condemnation coming from people like jeb bush, for example, who said he thinks it's just plain wrong when you talk about, for example, databases, when you talk about internment, when you talk about closing mosques, so jeb bush has come out strongly about this and john kasich as well and ted cruz said, i'm a big fan of donald trump, but i'm not a fan of government registries of american citizens. i'll tl you it's interesting, though, we were at a coffee shop an hour away from des moines at a campaign event for marco rubio and we were chatting with the
undecided voters in iowa and they are concerned and it's been in the headlines for eight days and it's a question being asked by voters. and a person wanted to know about marco rubio's position on refugees, people are feeling nervous about refugees but the obama administration and a number of democrats are making clear and shifting the narrative, the united states has been vetting refugees coming into this country for a long time. they go through the strictest security screenings possible, so tough, in fact, that less than 9% of syrian refugees who apply to get into this country are admitted. president obama saying as long as he's in office america is a place where the most vulnerable people, people flying violence and discrimination, can find safe haven and hillary clinton talking about the need for compassion and while she wants to be sure the people are thoroughly vetted, a process that can take up to two years, she wants to make sure that the
borders sier erers remain open. we go to mali where there's a manhunt under way not for one but three suspects in the deadly hotel attack. we'll tell you what we're learning new in a live report. also new pictures from inside the hotel. suffering from the flu is a really big deal. with aches, fever and chills... there's no such thing as a little flu. so why treat it like it's a little cold? there's something that works differently than over-the-counter remedies. attack the flu virus at its source with prescription tamiflu. and call your doctor right away. tamiflu is fda approved to treat the flu in people 2 weeks and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing, have serious health conditions, or take other medicines. if you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior, stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately. children and adolescents in particular
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just a little after half past the hour and new information coming in to msnbc. belgium's prime minister said authorities will reassess the that's rig terrorist threats. and three alleged isis members arrested suspected of ties to the terrorist who carried out the paris attacks. and the hunt is on for at least three suspects in the mali attack that killed one american and at least 19 others. joining us now from paris is nbc is kelly kobeai, are you seeing an impact in france after the terrorist alert was raised not too far away in belgium? >> reporter: there hasn't been
much of an impact here in relation to the terror alert in belgium. this country was already on a heightened state of alert. police have made no further announcements about any sort of action that people here in paris should take. of course, the state of emergency has now been extended for three months and so all of those controls remain in place. there are some developments on the investigative front which you brought up, erika, three arrests in turkey in antalya which is a southern coastal city in turkey. one of them a belgian national named ahmed dahmani and two syrians as well. here you see some video of the three of them being taken into custody, formally taken into custody today. they've been questioned over the past couple of days. dahmani was found at a luxury hotel. the on two others were found on a street nearby. dahmani was believed to have sqope ed scoped out the areas around the paris attacks and the tw others
were sent into turkey to escort him back to syrian territory and isis territory, erika. >> thank you. turning to mali where the media arm of the militant group has released a statement claiming responsibility for friday's hotel attack. the death toll from that violence is now up to 22 according to u.n. officials. we are in mali's capital bamako today, what is it about the new claim? what are we learning in that? >> reporter: well, erika, not sure whether that claim is accurate or not, of course, they will be trying to figure out who exactly is responsible for this. but i have to tell you that the evidence of one man that i have just been speaking to will be absolutely crucial in that. we've been speaking to a man from florida, an american survivor of what happened in the hotel behind me here. and his account is terrifying. his name is terry kim.
and let me take you through, erika, what he says happened. he said he was coming out of the hotel to get into a car with a colleague there when he saw four or five men running across the street shooting. now, both of them tried to run into the hotel. his friend got in. he fell over. miraculously he didn't get shot and managed to crawl into the breakfast room. his next account is that he then says he heard three of the attackers come into the room and start shooting. he was hiding under a table. he says that he was so close to them that the shell casings were hitting him. and he was listening to them whisper to each other. he says there were three of them. two of them were men. one of them, he says, was a female. they then piled things up in the middle of the room. set light to those things. caused a fire that was choking, that was so hot it was extremely difficult to cope with. they left. he crawled into the kitchen by
his account, and then he was calling on his phone to get special forces to get the americans, the malis all the different security forces to get here. and when they did come, they managed to confront those shooters, and they rescued a large number of people here, including terry. he said he had to crawl under the smoke and shout out to just to check that the people that were on the other side of the door really were the people who had come to rescue him. his friend, he says, was on the roof of the hotel for five hours thinking that terry had been killed. so, an extraordinary account of the events in here that will help investigators try to figure out exactly who was behind this. but by his account, just going back over it, there were four or five shooters, he says at least. and he suggests that one of the
attackers was a female. >> fascinating, what a story. keir, thank you. joining me now a research fellow at the international security program at the new america foundation and also a former military analyst at the cia. good to have you with us. there's been a lot of talk about a rivalry of sorts between al qaeda and isis and "the new york times" even pointing out today that an al qaeda supporter whose profile actually suggested he could be a fighter in syria was bragging isis could learn a thing or two from this attack in mali. is there really this rivalry between the two terror groups? >> thanks for having me, erika. i read the same piece in the "new york times" and this is not uncommon. this is actually part of the reason that, you know, isis and al qaeda have had divisions in the past. there's differences on tactics and there's differences over the types of attacks that these groups want to carry out. you also might see this happening as propaganda. the rivalry online pointing out or kri teaking or boasting about their own attacks is a way to garner financial resources
flowing in and additional recruits after the spectacular attacks like in paris and mali the tragic events that unfolded last week. >> in terms of propaganda we see more and more videos being released by isis and warning by more attacks in europe and people are in place to do more attacks. how seriously should we take those threats? >> i think we should take them pretty seriously. something can be propaganda for recruitment purposes but it could also be a warning and i think intelligence officials are looking at those videos. are there actionable pieces of intelligence that tell you a time, a location a particular target? no. but it shows you what is of interest and what they are trying to do what their overarching strategy is where they are looking to attack. i think we should be taking these seriously but it doesn't meanwhile that law enforcement has direct and imminent piece of intelligence to prevent a specific attack on a specific location. >> there has been so much activity across europe and we're
now learning in turkey. in france alone hundreds of raids. there have been arrests across the board and then these three arrests we're learning about in turkey. in terms of a connection and just how widespread this net is, how does that add to the difficulty of this task? because we're seeing these parts play out literally across the globe. >> i think you're right. i think the fact that we are seeing this investigation unfold not just in france, where the attacks happened, but in brussels in lockdown right now. over in turkey we have u.s. law enforcement on alert, you know, in cities like new york and d.c. and probably share intelligence. this does make it more difficult because no matter how -- -- and between the united states and our allies overseas in order to make sure we can connect the dots because just because the intelligence may be there to prevent a particular attack it doesn't mean the steps will happen to coordinate and stop it
in time. this is what officials have to be focused to make sure the right people have the right information to prevent something like paris from happening in other cities in upcoming months. >> understandably for many americans the concern is also how safe are we here at home when it comes to security in the united states. there's often talk of this geographic isolation that works in our favor, but as you pointed out a lot of the videos have talked about potential attacks in places where there's been attacks. we've seen mention of washington, d.c., and new york in the past week. how concerned do we need to be here in the united states? >> i think there does need to be a healthy level of concern, but, you're right, we have two factors that actually work in our favor. geographically we're not in physically in close proximity where some of the fighters are traveling to syria to the conflict and returning. we also have a lower number of fighters leaving the united states to engage in these sort of conflicts get the training. europe has a much higher of level of fighters doing this both out of france and belgium. so we have two factors working
in our favor, but it only takes a few individuals, a lone wolf or a small cell to do something like this, particularly if you're just talking about using firearms and not a highly sophisticated or coordinated, you know, multilocation attack. so, i think over the holiday season you'll see law enforcement in cities like new york and washington ramping up security and telling people to remain vigilant because it is a concern. but not to panic. we're not in a state of, you know, lockdown. there's no direct, specific imminent threat just a general warning which law enforcement has been worried about to be quite frank for a while. >> a lot of people when i was in paris when i got back last night the prime minister said there's a real threat of a chem scal or biological attack, that took a lot of people by surprise. does it surprise you? >> well, you know, i'm not sure what intelligence that is based on. it's something that for years intelligence officials are worried about different types of terrorist attacks we haven't seen, so if you go, you know, open source information, people outline and do exercises to
prevent or work to prevent these types of attacks. i'm not sure if there's potential intelligence stream of reporting he was basing it on. it is concerning. it is something we have not seen isis do before in a western city. i wouldn't go into panic mode, but i did see earlier that that announcement was made and they are taking some precautionary measures over there in light of that. >> great information. thanks for putting a lot of it in perspective for us this afternoon. >> thank you, erika. up next, how a group of hackers is waging a cyberwar against isis. will their efforts help or hurt u.s. officials trying to take out the terror organization? can a business have a mind?
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this time in capital cities all over europe. it's the latest in the group's growing efforts to use the internet to communicate and intimidate. joining me eric brantly who assistant professor at the united states military academy at westpoint. good to have you with us today. we know the propaganda videos are especially for isis to incite fear but also as a recruiting tool. and anonymous said they are waging a war on isis and wanted to disrupt isis' online operations. how much could they actually do in that capacity? >> isis has demonstrated a fairly robust set of capabilities to engage in moderate to midlevel attacks social engineering and a whole other bunch of incidents against other targets so it's possible they could have some effect on some of the different types of isis media and propaganda aspects. >> is there a concern that because obviously the u.s. government and other intelligence agencies are trying
to track some of isis' online activity to get a sense of what the group is doing. could anonymous disrupt some of that work? >> it's possible. however, i think the affect it would have on u.s. intelligence activity would be moderate to minor, if any effect at all. >> what about this help desk? we heard so much this week and frankly i know a lot of us were just boggled at the idea of a help desk for isis 24-hour support to make sure they could still, you know, avoid detection and encryption. how much do we know about the actual help desk? >> we know quite a bit. my colleague and i have been tracking this phenomenon for the last year and we've been looking at their evolution of communications capabilities. their co-op of democracy and mum human rights trainings and it's not like you can call 1-800-gee h jihad to get technical support but they have resources distributed throughout the world
and the dark network as well and two days ago the islamist state's technician put out a new manual. >> we can access it, too. >> it's a little bit hard for general people off the street to access it -- >> by us, i meant people like you, not me. >> it takes a long time to process to get into the different chat rooms and groups and to get invited down to the lower levels. but, yes, it is possible, absolutely. >> there's also the sense of figuring out the technology they are using and being a step ahead. is that one of the major challenges at this point? >> it is certainly a challenge but it's nice that we can use their own propaganda and their own information to essentially learn you on they are innovating and adapting to u.s. intelligence and law enforcement and that kind of puts us at an advantage and a step ahead. while they might be encrypting, you know, just a couple days ago "the wall street journal" reported that it was -- that
only about a third of them were encrypting their communications at all, so i still think we have quite a significant advantage. >> what are some of the -- we talk a lot about, we hear about the dark internet and places far into the web that would be hard for a layperson to find, but there of also access that terrorists are using. >> yeah, they use a whole different peer to peer apps, but nothing outlandish, they haven't created anything of their own that we found. al qaeda has created one of their own but isis hasn't done that. >> they are trying to help recruit for their media. there of reports that i've heard about that. are there people that could create an app for them or some sort of encryption technology? >> definitely. they are working on creating an elite hacking group if you will. their capabilities are low to moderate right now, nothing that the normal citizen should be overly worried about but they are stating this is a
possibility. this is something that is valid instead of going to the fight in iraq or syria, join the fight online. >> it's fascinating and fascinating to hear you talk about it as aaron brantly, appr you being here today. thank you. up next, some of the harrowing stories of survival from those who survived last friday night's attack at the bataclan theater. what they say the gunman did to try to trick the concert goers. this is our home. and small business saturday... is more than just a day. it's our day... to shop small at the places we love... with the people we love. for stuff we can't get anywhere else. and food that tastes like home. because the money we spend here... can help keep our town growing. on small business saturday, let's all shop small. for the neighborhood, the town, the home we love. on november 28th, shop small. therthat can be serious,ere. even fatal to infants. it's whooping cough, and people can spread it without knowing it. understand the danger your new grandchild faces.
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right now the worldwide hunt is still on for suspected terror suspects. turkish shorts though say they have arrested three alleged islamic state members including ahmet dahmani, a european with suspected ties to the attackers. the belgium government raising the capital city easter ror alert to its highest level setting a serious and immediate threat. the prime minister says he will revisit that designation tomorrow. meantime, isis releasing another new video. this one claiming the group has additional terror acts planned
for europe and that people are in place to carry them out. there's also a state of emergency in mali in the wake of friday's attack there that killed at least 20 including one american. the a.p. reporting the hunt is on for at least three suspects in that attack. and we are hearing new stories of survival from the attacks in paris just a week ago. in an exclusive interview victims who were caught in the line of fire at the bataclan theater describe how the attackers tried to trick them. >> they were shooting at us when we were trying to get out. and i realized for many reasons that i was in the shooting line and i was too far away from the exit, so i just lay down. and play dead. >> you played dead? >> yeah. >> she had to. >> we had to. we were -- that was the only thing we could do at that point
because they were trying to spread around the bataclan to maintain pressure over us, to maintain domination over us. and a few minutes, i guess, after people were trying to escape from the exit, they started to shout, get out now, get out now, but it was just traps. it was just to trap us to make us get up and shoot at us. fortunately, i and the guy next to me we played dead for as long as we could. we played dead. we just -- we heard people trying to get out and being shot. i was near the exit, near the stage. and i could hear them from different areas. so i picked up like two, three
voices. when they did the trap and they were talking to each other. >> the three survivors you saw there say they still can't believe they made it out of that theater alive. i'm erica hill. thanks for joining us on this saturday afternoon. nbc's chris jansing is in paris to continue our live coverage in the next hour. she'll have the latest developments for you out of paris, also isis releasing a new video and the latest developments out of brussels, belgium's capital city remains on lockdown at this hour as officials there assess what they are calling a serious and imminent threat. stay with us. type 2 diabetes doesn't care who you are.
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seal out more food particles. super poligrip is part of my life now. was as long as the boat. for seven hours, we did battle. until i said... you will not beat... meeeeee!!! greg. what should i do with your fish? gary. just put it in the cooler. if you're a fisherman, you tell tales. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. put the fish in the cooler! i'm chris jansing reporting breaking news on this saturday night live from paris. we have new pictures just in to msnbc showing the aftermath of the raid in saint-denis where the suspected ringleader was taken down and killed earlier this week. also, brussels on lockdown. the belgium government raises
the capital city's terror alert to its highest level citing a serious and immediate threat. it will reassess that situation tomorrow. another new video from isis. this one claiming the group has additional terror acts planned for europe and that people are in place to carry them out. plus, a state of emergency in mali in the wake of friday's attack that killed at least 20 people including one american. the associated press reporting the hunt is on for at least three suspects. and here in paris we're hearing for the first time the harrowing story of the band who were playing at the bataclan the night 89 people were murdered in cold blood. so all of that coming up. but we begin with our first look inside the apartment in saint-denis where abdelhamid abaaoud and two others died in a hail of gunfire followed by an explosion. take a look at these images. the force of the blast blowing out windows, ripping holes in the walls and ceilings. we had already known the floor beneath them collapsed. but these photos are the first
close-up images of what it was like inside there. and the power of those explosives. meantime, the hunt is still on for at least one of the suspects who helped carry out this series of attacks here in paris more than a week ago now. and there's a fast developing situation as well in brussels, belgium. belgium's capital city is on lockdown this hour because what authorities call a, quote, serious and immediate threat. subways are shut down, armed police and soldiers visibly patrolling the streets. both clear signs of a city in danger and on edge. let's go straight to nbc's cladio, live in brussels been there throughout the day. what more do we know about this threat tonight, claudio? >> reporter: authorities say the threat is credible and real. they fear a coordinated attack on multiple locations on the likes of paris.
this of course is worrying the population. people here residents and tourists alike are concerned to the point that we have just learned that 400 people per hour have been calling a national help line that has been set up by the crisis center for people looking for more information, reassurance of the kind. well, now that of course reflects the state of not even panic if not confusion perhaps among the population here. because they woke up this morning to a brussels which is usually a quiet little town home to european -- the european union and nato as you well know. you've been here many times. well, today they woke up to a place and city center that was militarized. there were hundreds of soldiers around here. there were military vehicles. and of course they're not used to seeing anything like it. so i will say they're more confused than panicked, chris. >> claudio lavagna, thank you so
much for that live report. in paris we've learned president hollande has added another high level meeting to his schedule next week. british prime minister will meet here, followed by more throughout the week. we bring in msnbc's thomas roberts, good evening or afternoon back at home. >> good evening to you. it is a cold and chilly night here in paris. we have a lot to catch everybody up on when it comes to what it means for france being in this new surveillance state as we're in a state of emergency effective immediately after parliament agreed to president hollande's request yesterday. as claudio was talking about the fact in brussels seeing more military reinforcements on the streets, the numbers here in france, military personnel deployed across the country 100,000 police, 5,500 customs officials have been added to crack down on what some people would consider porous borders coming into the country itself. but 10,000 military personnel
have been deployed as well across the country. so this is a broad coalition as they are trying to crack down and definitely flex muscle as a way of showing improvement against what may have been deep rooted isis cells within this country. now, it is going to be feeling repercussions throughout the country for a while. i had a chance to sit down today with one of the survivors at the bataclan. she's a 28-year-old young woman, parisian, and she was there with several friends. and the only why she survived in the pit of that dance floor was by playing possum. take a listen. >> i was on top of people, my legs were on the floor, but i was on top of people. there were a guy wounded in the arm next to me. and we were -- i was a bit on my side. i had my eyes closed.
and maybe something of a fetal position. but my -- this part of my body was on people. some of them were not alive anymore at the time. and my legs on the floor. someone was shot behind me all down to my shoe. we were trying to comfort each other without saying any words. and we closed our eyes and i don't know we were not panicking. we were scared. and we had a lot of time to think about our loved ones and stuff, but we were not panicking. >> now, alix was in a group of five, chris, that was in a group at the bataclan. she had some men friends with her on the balcony level. she was with her girlfriend chloe down in the pit. defiance for people here in
france against isis has been to get back to their lives. for alix, for her friends it's been a slower process what they've been able to survive. she made sure to make sure to say she's a survivor, not a victim. she wants to go on with her life. but when we talk about what this means for the french people, and this will whatever it takes, they're now in that mode after america was after 9/11. whatever it takes to fight back. but as we look at what it cost america in these wars after 13 years in afghanistan, $685 billion. the u.s.-iraq war $814 billion plus, a combined loss of 6800 service members. so france is now as president hollande has said at war with isis. and so this is the calculation they have to start considering especially when this country is in a deficit but that did not stop president hollande from moving the aircraft carrier, charles degal into position in the mediterranean which carries 24 jets to continue air strikes over syria. but this is a conventional
approach to war against a very unconventional enemy. and we'll continue to watch how things unfold with the world leaders as you say, hollande meeting with cameron and then going onto meet with obama and then president putin. it seems as if they all have a common enemy, but will they come together with a common policy? >> there is also here a new normal. we've talked about this for the last several days. one of the things we've seen as a result of this state of emergency is these extraordinary powers that the police have. we have seen them deploy to any sensitive sites. we are now getting word, and it makes sense, british newspapers reporting that that includes the source of water supply throughout paris. that they have armed guards in place. what else have you seen? what else have you heard? i know you've been talking to a lot of people about just how different life is as a result of what happened and these emergency powers. >> it's really complex because there is a sense of celebration here in paris and civil liberties. and people love the way that
they conduct their lives here. and what this city means to them and their freedom. but people are ready to compromise when it comes to powers of security forces and military to be able to crack down. you make a valuable point about what this means for the state of emergency. just to remind everybody as the senate voted to continue this state of emergency, it means they have sweeping powers that are given to the police, broadened house arrest measures also means the administrative police forces can do anything they want without any type of judicial oversight so they can move forward if they suspect something or someone of doing something. and could also facilitate them to close down anything like a radical mosque. and many mosques aren't radical, but if they consider them to be radicalized, they can go ahead and shut them down. also this means that they can carry out these hundreds of search warrants and do so with a greater authority. now, with this being so raw and fresh for the french people and
the security forces initiating themselves and flexing muscle in this way, it will add up. and we'll wait and see how the french people want to reevaluate this in three months time when they have to when this state of emergency is re-examined to see how they're doing. and some people say, all right, so this is too much too late because this is already -- they've already been able to plant seeds here. and they're reaping that now. >> but they're casting a very wide net. there's no doubt about that. they've been giving us regular updates. i would expect some or hope to get new numbers soon. thomas roberts, thanks so much for being here with us. appreciate it. well, even as parisians mourn their dead and belgians are being told to shelter indoors in brussels, isis is promising more attacks. the terror group releasing yet another video warning isis members are in place across european capitals and poised to act. this video encouraged members to use any means available to attack. ellis an analyst with flash
point global partners joins me now. alex, thanks very much for being here. that video, i'm wondering how effective a tool is it in mobilizing members of isis, or is it more aimed at instilling fear in people like us and in people like europeans? >> it's actually a little bit of both. and, you know, these are some sort of videos we've been seeing for quite some time now. at this point of time we're seeing them more and more emboldened. it's a little bit more of the same and they're just celebrating. >> the hacker group anonymous meantime is suddenly on the government's side. they have been vowing that they're going to go against isis. we know how effective online recruitment, how online messaging has been as a source of essentially going dark, being able to plan these attacks. what are the chances that anonymous could be effective? >> honestly, it's a very difficult task for anonymous to tackle. we've seen isis and its
supporters diversify. so not only are they on deep web forums, they are also on social media. from there they've been highly scrutinized. they've been suspended from thing like twitter. so you've seen them migrate to what they perceive as safe haven, encrypted communications platforms like one called telegram. at this point they're desensitized. >> it's raised a lot of questions for i think the average american saying why do we need some outside hacker group this anonymous to do what we thought the government had organized to do itself? >> yeah, this is an extremely scary time. and, you know, it's difficult because it's almost like we do have to rely on these sorts of people because we've seen an incredible intelligence failure. i mean, the french authorities had been watching abaaoud who was the mastermind. abaaoud in an old issue of dabiq magazine, which is isis' english language magazine, he was actually interviewed and he was saying, he was boasting about the fact he was able to go into europe and back over to syria
and back into europe. they're watching me but look what i'm able to do, i'm able to move freely. that's an incredible intelligence failure. i think that's why people now are feeling a little bit scared and unsafe. >> and finally let me ask you about these new arrests in belgium and turkey, do we know anything about the intelligence behind those? >> i think at this point there's an incredible amount of intelligence sharing we're seeing going on. but i think this is what we've seen before. it's a reactive approach, it's ad hoc. we've seen 300 overnight raids in paris in the last week. i think we need to be in a sense not to overreact because at the same time there is that delicate balance and overreaction can further inspire these types of individuals. >> alex from flash point partners, thanks so much for being with us. >> no problem. our coverage continues after the break with president obama who is in malaysia tonight attending the asean summit, once again heating up the debate about accepting refugees in the u.s. but is his tough tone the right move? we'll tackle that question next.
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take a look at these pictures from italy. hundreds of muslims today holding a peaceful protest in rome and milan. the demonstrators say they marched to protest what they call the abuse of islam by those who carried out the attacks in paris. meantime a reminder that the syrian refugee crisis is front and center in president obama's mind even while he's traveling in malaysia. the president visited a school for refugee children saying these kids were indistinguishable from any child in america. >> we have shown that we can welcome refugees and ensure our security. that there's no contradiction. and as long as i'm president we're going to keep on stepping up and making sure that america
remains as it has always been, a place where people who in other parts of the world are subject to discrimination or violence that they have in america a friend and a place of refuge. >> this is just the latest example of the president criticizing those who are against allowing syrian refugees into the united states. the president is wrapping up that visit to the asean summit. he's already promised to veto a bill that would essentially stop syrian refugees from resettling in the united states. nbc's ron allen is traveling with the president now in kuala lumpur. ron, good evening. >> reporter: chris, the president has spoken very forcefully and emotionally and passionately on this issue of refugees. he's threatened to veto the bill the house passed of blocking
refugees into the country. he insists that the united states should be a leader on this issue. it's part of our values and we should open up our hearts. today he visited a refugee center, a foundation here in malaysia that supports children, refugees primarily from ber ma and myanmar pointing out there are some 16 million refugees worldwide. and the president's determined to say that the united states should be a leader on this issue. here's some of what he had to say at that foundation. >> we have shown we can welcome refugees and ensure our security, that there's no contradiction. and as long as i'm president we're going to keep on stepping up and making sure that america remains as it has always been a place where people who in other parts of the world are subject to discrimination or violence. that they have in america a
friend. and a place of refuge. >> and, chris, as you know this was primarily a trip for the president to attend several regional summits to talk about trade issues and regional security issues. terrorism though always up at the top of the agenda. the president condemning those attacks in mali yesterday. also he returns to the united states next week he'll meet with francois hollande, president of france on tuesday at the white house as they discuss strategy in the war against isis. now back to you, chris. >> ron allen in kuala lumpur. thanks very much. so as he just mentioned tuesday president obama will get another chance to talk to the american people about terrorism and about isis as he plays host to french president hollande at the white house. the president got criticized from the right and left after last week's news conference where he spent a lot of his time defending his strategy and chastising reporters. joining me now richard chenkman, good to see you. so much has been spoken about
the problem that people see with the president's tone. they say he did not seem sympathetic enough. he seemed too critical, too on edge, what did you think? >> well, i think that compared with the gop candidates of the last couple of days that he has looked as presidential as he has ever looked compared with the kinds of statements that are being made by donald trump and some of the others on the other side. he has been exercising his role as moral leader in chief, but his syria policy has been a shambles. it's been a shambles ever since he demanded that assad leave and then he didn't have a policy for getting rid of him. he demanded that assad not use chemical weapons. and if he did, by gosh, we were going to retaliate. well, he did and we didn't retaliate. and he doesn't really seem to have a very strong coherent
strategy for getting rid of isis right now. i mean, hillary clinton the other day at the debate said she's in favor of a no-fly zone. why the president is refusing to consider that baffles me, baffles a lot of people. so he's open to a lot of criticism even as he's had a very good week showing how presidential he can be. >> how -- is there any historical precedent that you can think of for the kind of rhetoric that we are hearing both before but particularly after this terrible attack that happened here and now you add to that what happened just yesterday in mali, particularly the back and forth that we're hearing not just on the republican side but between the president of the united states and republicans who are running for president? >> so you're referring to the zenaphobia. we have a tradition of xenaphobia. it has showed up every time we
have some kind of international crisis going all the way back to the 19th century when immigrants first started pouring into the united states. and it's just a pattern. when the irish came over, americans were very hostile to the irish coming over. and they compared them to poor blacks, which of course would have been the worst thing possible back then. and obviously in world war i we had germans who were discriminated against because we were fighting germany and world war ii it was the japanese who got the brunt of the xenaphobia running rampant in the country. presidents are supposed to lean against that kind of thing. it didn't happen so much in world war ii where fdr signed the executive order interning japanese camps in the interior in places like idaho and utah and that was a terrible black stain on his record and on the
record of the country. and obama so far has been handling himself extremely well in this regard. i don't see a way to fault him. >> richard shenkman, thanks so much. isis released a new propaganda video threatening paris, this time lifting movie clips from a blockbuster hollywood film. what terror experts say the new tactics mean. that and more next. you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is, why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.
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>> yeah. >> wow. >> people were playing dead. and they were so scared. a great reason why so many were killed is because so many people wouldn't leave their friends. >> that interview from vice tv. let's turn now to the tool isis uses to spread terror besides the obvious. the terror group released another slickly produced video promising even more violence throughout europe. msnbc discovery desk editor cal perry joins me now from new york. it's hard to believe that isis could become any more media savvy. i mean, some of their videos have been incredibly slickly produced. they almost look like they've been done in hollywood. what do you make though of the fact that since the attacks here in paris eight days ago they've been putting out these videos, one after another after another? >> well, listen, i think as you sort of allude to, they've kind of graduated from being social media savvy to now just being media savvy. it seems clear they understand
the news cycle, they know what people are looking at and they're trying to capitalize on it. it's this beast that constantly feeds itself. we saw that 72 hours ago with the release of a video that had some shots of times square in it. more recently we saw that with the eiffel tower falling down. these are very slickly produced videos and coming more and more freek frequently. they're pumping them out more and more frequently. one of the sort of trends we're picking up on is they're reusing a lot of video. seems they're creating a bit of a media library. this would go with what we know of their organizational structure too. we know that they're very well organized in the i.t. side of things, so perhaps not a surprise that they're doing so well with this media. >> so obviously they have two goals here. one is to instill fear. the other is recruitment. how effective is it? >> well, certainly on the first point the installing fear, i mean, we are sort of now back in this space where we were shortly after 9/11 where we're talking about abundance of caution
again, right? and these are threats that we have to take seriously. if we see a video coming out from an isis platform that we know to be linked to the group and there's a shot of times square, we have a responsibility to their that with the public. of course at the same time this is a fine line. when you look at sort of the way the group operates, right, it takes a great deal of evil. and it takes a great deal of dedication to walk into a public place and open fire on innocent civilians, or explode a suicide vest. it doesn't take a whole lot of courage, it doesn't take a whole lot of dedication to retweet something or put something out on social media just visceral hatr hatred. and we're starting to see the u.s. military kind of weigh this as they go through their target lists we know they're going to be targeting because they've told us more of these media wings that isis is putting out. but interestingly enough, chris, the u.s. military also letting us know that it's important that some of these communication avenues stay open so that the group can be tracked.
>> so you have that. and you also have on the other hand the efforts by the u.s. and other governments to counter this. how's the other side doing? how's the u.s. doing? how are europeans doing in countering this propaganda? >> well, the sites they want to shut down certainly the ones that are public they are able to shut down. we know between 5,000 and 10,000 twitter handles that were flagged initially by anonymous, they're now systematically going through and shutting down those channels. one of the issues though is every one you shut down a few more pop up. it's very difficult. and there's no there-there. it's not like everything is being run out of raqqah inside syria. you know, it's quite possible somebody's on their computer from anywhere in the world and masking their ip address. this is the next generation, chris. these are kids growing up in places and schools where they're learning how to code from a very early age. so the u.s. government is very aware of this issue. they're starting to recruit younger and younger individuals to come in from the tech world
to take on this task, but it's changing the battlefield. it's no longer just a physical battlefield on the ground. there's now this war that's raging inside the digital sphere. >> cal perry, thanks so much. and new information coming into msnbc on the american killed in yesterday's attack in mali. she's been identified as anita datar, a former peace corps volunteer described by hillary clinton who knew her as representing, quote, the best of america's generous spirit. still ahead, the latest developments from here in paris. to the north in brussels still on lockdown in belgium's capital city amid a serious terror threat. our live coverage continues from paris after a quick break. re alt using your airline credit card miles. and surprise! those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want. luckily, there's a better way... with the capital one venture card.
authorities will reassess the terrorist threats in brussels tomorrow. again, that city on lockdown tonight. the terror threat at its highest alert level. meantime in turkey three alleged isis members have been arrested suspected of ties to the terrorists who carried out the paris attacks. this as we see another new video from isis. this one claiming the group has additional terror acts planned for europe and that people are in place to carry them out. i'm joined here live in paris by kelly cobiella. we got our first look inside that apartment in saint-denis where the raid went down, the mastermind of the attacks in paris and two others were killed. what can you tell us? >> we've heard about how violent and how explosive really this raid was 5,000 rounds of ammunition used by the french police alone. then there was the other side of course. incredibly violent response from the people who were inside. and we're now seeing these pictures of what it looks like inside that apartment. you can see the blasts through
the walls. you can see the walls just riddled with bullet holes. we understand that the floor on the third floor apartment collapsed and made it extremely difficult to identify the people who were inside. in fact, it took a day or so to identify abaaoud, the ringleader of these paris attackers. and we're still waiting, chris, to hear the identity of a third body that was found inside, a body we only learned about yesterday. so these pictures do give you a really fascinating look into just how violent that raid was. a seven-hour raid inside that apartment. >> meantime we mentioned these three arrests in turkey. and interestingly enough or maybe terrifyingly enough they took place where the g-20 was just held. president obama was there just a short time ago. >> right. this happened actually over the past couple of days. so we're just learning about the arrests now. we're talking about three men,
belgian and two syrians. ahmet dahmani, we understand he arrives in antalia on november 14th, so the day after the attacks. he apparently according to reports in turkey he arrived there from amsterdam. terrorism officials in turkey followed him, they picked him up at a luxury hotel in that coastal city along with these two syrian men. all of them of course now in custody. they questioned them over the past couple of days. and that believe that dahmani at least was in direct contact with the attackers in paris. they believe that he was scoping out terrorist -- these attack sites. so the bataclan, the other cafes that were hit on friday. as for the other two men, chris, they're syrian. and the belief is that they came into turkey in order to
essentially escort dahmani back into isis territory across the border. so we'll see what comes of that over the next few days whether we hear anymore. i'm sure french investigators would like to talk to this guy. >> kelly cobiella, good to have you here. thank you so much. turning now to mali where the u.n. confirms an american woman is among the 20 people killed in friday's deadly hotel siege. in addition three of the attackers were killed. nbc's keir simmons is live in bamako with one survivor's story. keir. >> reporter: one man helping investigators we've seen at the hotel behind me here all day. and his story is terrifying. his name is terry kemp, he is from florida. he says he was coming out of the front of the hotel here with a colleague getting into a car when he saw four or five shooters running across the road. they ran for their life back into the hotel. his friend got in. he, he says, fell over on the
stairs. miraculously he managed to still get away. he crawled into the breakfast room. his next account is that three of the attackers came in and started shooting. he says he was hiding under a table. he was so close to them that the shell casings were landing on him. for some reason, he says, they did not look down. they did not see him. he describes the three as two men and one woman. he says they were whispering to each other and that they then began to pile things up in the middle of the room and set fire to the room. eventually they left and he was left in there with tremendous heat and smoke calling to the american embassy and to the authorities to get help. that help came of course, and those security officials got in here including two americans security agents who were off duty got through the hotel, confronted the shooters, killed two of them. but terry was still in the
breakfast room and then the kitchen choking on that smoke. he says when the rescuers finally came and he says all this took around about an hour, he had to crawl under the smoke and had to shout through the door just to really believe that this was people coming to save him. he thinks he was one of the first to be pulled out of the hotel. his friend who i mentioned earlier had got on to the roof, he was there for five hours terrified believing that terry was dead. so an extraordinary story and crucially in terms of evidence terry saying that he saw, he thinks, four or five shooters. and on another occasion he saw some of the attackers and that one of them was a woman, chris. >> harrowing tale. keir simmons, thank you. meantime we have some dramatic new gun camera footage that shows coalition forces striking isis where it may hurt the most, oil supplies. take a look. you can see black oil shooting in the air after the targeted
strike. the russian military says they've destroyed 15 oil facilities controlled by isis depriving the terrorist group of $1.5 million in daily income from those sales. i want to bring in retired u.s. army colonel jack jacobs, a medal of honor recipient and msnbc military analyst. always good to see you, colonel. in the video we were just looking at seemed to show a single strike to an oil supply area. but defense video was also released shows multiple repeated explosions in one place. what does that tell you about the kind of strikes being carried out and whether frankly the u.s. could have been at the controls? >> well, the single ones are almost undoubtly cruise missiles of some kind either from airplanes or sea launched. the ones that have multiple explosions could be probably either one of two things. either cluster bombs, which the u.s. doesn't use but the russians do have and do use, or in the alternative the chain
guns, .30 millimeter chain guns, we use them fired from a-10 warthogs. it fires very rapidly. and each warhead explodes. the a-10 is a durable aircraft, can fly at relatively low speeds and low altitudes with really accurate results as you can see here. absolutely devastating particularly if it's going to be used on a fixed site like this that has oil in it and there are secondary explosions. so either russians or americans or both. >> let me ask you about the big picture of this, jack, because we have those striking images of vladimir putin and president obama who even the white house describes as having a little bit euphemistically maybe a business like relationship a huddling when they were in turkey talking about how they might be able to cooperate in terms of targeting
isis. of course this means militarily there are other more complex issues like president assad. but do you think we're seeing already ushering in a new era in intelligence sharing including between the u.s. and russia in addition to some more, i think, quick the way the defense department put it with the french intelligence authorities. >> i think there's already information being shared. sounds kind of odd we're sharing intelligence with something like putin who seems like an untrustworthy guy opposed to us and all we do that other stuff he is on many accounts an odious character. but when we've gotten together with odious characters before including one of his predecessors, stalin, who is our biggest ally in the second world war and who by all accounts killed more of his own people than the nazis did, sometimes
the exten sis of war and a common enemy brings people together who otherwise wouldn't cooperate. i think we are trading information. i think we're going to trade more intelligence information. and we're going to cooperate. it's really important however that we also coordinate our activities on the battlefield because we have aircraft in the air. we have people on the ground and so do they. it's vitally important that the ordinance that gets dropped gets fired by ships, gets fired by aircraft, it falls on the enemy. and it doesn't fall on friendly forces. so a great deal of cooperation and a great deal of intelligence sharing going forward. >> let's talk about another way that intelligence sharing could be used because one of the things that we've been learning over the last several days as french officials have released information about these hundreds of house searches is how many weapons they've acquired including more than a dozen of what they call war weapons have
been confiscated including a rocket launcher. how important will it be to track down where that stuff is coming from that gets into the hands of isis and trying to stop it? >> well, it will be important and quite frankly i think it's not going to be all that difficult. but i think what we're going to discover is that this stuff can be traced all the way back to maybe the balkans or other places where there are huge arms traffickers, enormous numbers of weapons that have been used in a variety of wars over the last 20 years or so. i think the trail will go cold ultimately. we know where they're coming from, but there's not a whether or not he will lot we can do to stop it. and i think it's not going to stop any time soon, chris. >> colonel jack jacobs, always good talking to you. thanks so much. >> you bet. president obama is set to meet with french president francois hollande this coming week. what can we expect to come out of that meeting on tuesday? and how could it help in the fight against isis? we'll be right back. (vo) what does the world run on? it runs on optimism.
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if you're just joining us we learned french president hollande will meet with british prime minister david cameron. and then tuesday as we did know he's going to washington to meet with president obama on thursday to moscow to meet with vladimir putin. but the white house says the tuesday meeting will -- the meeting expected to focus of course on the recent attacks here in paris and how the u.s., france and other members of the coalition against isis can stop the threat they pose. joining me now former white house middle east policy adviser and former ambassador to morocco, mark ginsberg, always good to see you. what do you expect when these leaders meet on wednesday? >> expect a great deal of handshakes and hugs and camaraderie and expressions of solidarity. but, chris, the french feel very isolated. their nato allies in europe are not supporting their efforts to
mobilize more force against isis. just by way of example the british have yet to deploy any meaningful aircraft to fight in syria and canada under its new prime minister just pulled out its only six aircraft that were fighting against isis. and the united states has declared that it's not going to put significant ground troops on the ground. and we've already flown 6,000 sorties against isis. and now the russians are involved in fighting isis from the air as well. but without ground troops, without significant military force, the air power alone is not going to accomplish what the french want. >> and the president has made it clear there are no ground troops coming. but you point out the uk in all this. so this late meeting was added with the other two. what do you expect will be the conversation between cameron and hollande? >> i think it will be mostly about cooperation on
counterterrorism initiatives in europe. we've seen what's happened when isis fighters and isis style mobilized lone wolves are able to launch attacks. but i think more importantly, chris, where the policy is falling short is mobilizing the sunni states in the middle east to do what is necessary to tackle isis on the ground while we tackle isis in the air. and i think that that is going to be and should be the missing element in all of these conversations. all this camaraderie to support france and obviously to stem the flow of isis fighters into syria and iraq are going to be crucial. but the legitimacy of isis depends on the territory it controls. and as long as it controls the territory, and as long as it's able to keep issuing the type of propaganda from its territory, we're not going to really have any clear victory any time soon. >> the third meeting, let's talk
about that. vladimir putin, francois hollande. what's your take on vladimir putin's role in all of this? we've seened the increased bombing against some of the oil sites in syria trying to dry up some funding for isis. is he in this because he really wants to knock out isis? does he see this as a way he can help keep president assad in power? is it something else altogether? how do you interpret what vladimir putin says is his intent to go after isis? >> chris, his original intent when he first sent his war planes into battling syrian rebels was to prop up the assad regime. that has been his principle goal. syria's major proxy in the middle east is assad. and his shiite regime in syria. but after isis blew up the metrojet that took off from sharm el sheikh two weeks ago, that changed the equation for the russians. the over 200 russians that were killed were not killed as a result of russian involvement in
support of assad as much as it was an isis warning to russia that it is going to attack russia as long as -- if it interferes in the fight against isis in syria. and so i believe that you're going to see in the next week or two a significant increase in russian involvement against isis. the question here is whether this will be a franco, russian, american initiative or merely a franco-russian initiative. >> we shall see. big week for meetings between hollande and the other world leaders. ambassador mark ginsberg, good to see you. thank you. >> sure, chris. it has now been eight days sinister rice terrorists struck paris. taking to the streets there are new concerns that one critical and historic part of the city of light will be hurt. we'll have more on that coming up next. ♪
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the latest headlines coming into msnbc at this hour, belgium's prime minister gets ready to reassess the terrorist threats in brussels tomorrow. that city on lockdown tonight. the highest alert level in place. a live report after the break. ridiculous number of miles... or there's a fee to use them. i know. it's so frustrating. they'd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. and you would, too! why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. now, that's more like it. what's in your wallet?
i'm chris jansing, it is 11:00 on a saturday night here in paris and we're following developments on several fronts. we start this hour in brussels, belgium's capital city on alert and on lockdown because of what officials are calling, quote, a serious and immediate threat. nbc's claudio lavagna is live in brussels. what's going on where you are right now, claudio? >> well, what we know about the threat, chris, the part you said authorities believe there is an imminent and serious threat. they also said they feared a