tv Lockup Fairfax Extended Stay MSNBC November 27, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PST
up against. colorado pd s.w.a.t. is in, and the sheriff s.w.a.t. is also there, they're the backup. they're going to squeeze him down. they're telling the occupants of the nearby businesses where other officers are and other tactical officers, to get down, stay away from the windows. this guy could get in an elevated position and he may have run some of the building, that's a pretty large building when you see the pictures of it, with windows all around. so if they can squeeze him down to a room, a hallway, a stairway, that's what they're going to want to do, but he's going to want to be running around and shooting obviously. >> earlier, we had this whole discussion about what it means to have a gunman contained. i do want to point out that a lot of this is not confirmed for us. but in this situation, if it's a situation where he's holed up in a room, is that what you would consider having a gunman contained? >> well, yes, you have him contained, but that doesn't mean
he can't shoot out the window. say he's even on the second floor of a place. he could in an elevated position and could shoot out the window. s.w.a.t. will have to deal with that. we don't know if there's other people in the building between s.w.a.t. and him, so that gets to be a very difficult situation. they're trying to press forward to contact, to get him isolated. and he's firing back at them. that was the latest report you had, with wounded officers coming out. and colorado pd tweeted they were exchanging gunfire with the man. so it looks like, right now, they are exchanging with him. they know where he is. that's a big development in the last few hours and they're able to track some of the wounded out. >> what is your take on what we were saying earlier, that they've now reached out to the fbi, which is now on its way? >> what does that say to you? >> it's pretty normal. you're going to get the fbi, the atf, the colorado state police.
everybody has tactical teams. you have the sheriff's tactical team there, and you're going to need a lot of investigators after this thing's over to find out what this is all about. the fbi normally comes and they might have asked for s.w.a.t. team services. the fbi has a s.w.a.t. team in their denver division they can bring. colorado state police have a s.w.a.t. team as well. so if this gets into long hours, you could have tactical teams relieve each other. a tf has tactical teams. surrounding counties do. you can't do it forever. you have to sleep. all the tactical teams have negotiators and they can work together to resolve it. but when they're exchanging gunfire with him, it might be resolved sooner than later. >> we're looking, as i mentioned earlier, it looks like the snow has picked up actually, a lot. i don't know if that's a factor. but it also looks like night is getting ready to fall relatively
soon. how does that change things, if at all? >> well, it does change things little bit, but darkness operations, everybody's prepared to deal with that with night vision. if it's contained for the most part inside a building, it may be, we don't know absolutely, but that seems to be the latest report, then the weather would have less effect than if they're dealing with something outdoors. i saw the temperature was 21 degrees, but they're very used to that in colorado springs. >> jim, stay with us. we want to check back in with you. i want to reset here. coverage of the active shooter situation in colorado springs, colorado. at least four police officers have been shot and wounded near a planned parenthood clinic there. people at a nearby shopping center have been told to shelter in place where they still are.
there were initial reports that the suspected gunman was contained, but a police spokesperson said that was not the case. within the last hour, police and witnesses say there has been additional gunfire. local police have asked the fbi to respond. president obama has been made aware of that situation and will be updated on the matter as need be. let's go to melissa keller, who lives nearby the planned parenthood in colorado springs. he's joining us on the phone. please tell us what your experience has been today and where you see things standing right now from where you are. >> hi. we live in the apartments to the northeast of the planned parenthood. and a couple hours ago, we heard gun shots and saw a rapid police response, setting up barricades around the area. and for that first half hour or so of the confrontation, there was a multitude of gun shots. >> how many do you think you heard?
>> ooh, at least 20 to 30, for sure. >> now you say you live nearby. >> yes. >> i know that this area is cordoned off. do you have any sense of what it is like in that area today just beyond those barriers? have you been told to stay in place? >> i personally have not been told to stay in place. i don't know if they may be around in our complex. but common sense dictates that we stay inside for right now. >> have you been in touch with anybody else around the area, any sense of what is going on beyond what we're seeing? >> beyond what i can see out my window and what i hear on the news, that's the only information i've been able to get a hold of. >> and you saw an automatic police presence from the time that you heard shots fired to the time that we see the scene that we are looking at live in this parking lot right now, how long did that take?
>> it was from when we first recognized that it was gun shots that we were hearing, please were already on the scene. and then the response just kept going to the point that you see now. >> can you describe this area for people who are not familiar with it? >> yeah. the planned parenthood is more located in like a medical park, rather than a shopping center. >> oh, okay. >> so it's a lot more medical offices and there is like a king supers bank -- a chase bank across the street, but they seemed to get that pretty well contained, as soon as this started and got everyone inside. >> would you describe this as a quiet suburban neighborhood? >> for the most part, yeah. just from our complex. it's not uncommon to see protesters outside the planned parenthood, especially during the warmer days, there's usual someone out there protesting against them. >> but in general, you would
describe this neighborhood as a suburb kind of? >> yeah, absolutely. >> so normally this is not something you see every day? >> no, certainly not. >> well, stay safe, and thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> joining me now by phone is grant white, law enforcement instructor and former s.w.a.t. team leader of jefferson county, colorado. can you please give us your take on everything you've seen so far. >> certainly. i've been watching it unfold, and it sounds like they have him contained now in one location. what i expect now is that they'll make immediate entry in there to end this as quick as possible. certainly they've got to do that just to save lives. if he's not taken out, killed or taken into custody, he's going to keep shooting people, but they have no choice but to make immediate entry and stop this as quick as possible. >> obviously you have a s.w.a.t. background so i trust you
implicitly to say things to not put people in danger. we're being very careful not to give away any movements. but from what you've seen, can you take us through the philosophy of how one is trained to go into a situation, as fluid and as dangerous as this one? >> certainly. soon as it starts, we expect the first officers on scene to get through the door and to engage him. certainly that sounds like what they did, and several officers were shot during that. we expect them to do that. we understand there's a very high-risk of doing that, but it has to be done to stop civilian and hostage life from being taken. so i applaud them from getting in, i understand and i hope the officers are okay. when s.w.a.t. gets there, i expect immediate entry, i hope that's what they're doing now. sounds for a period of time they
were still hunting him down. now that they found him, i want them to get in there and end this as quick as possible. this is a point long past negotiation when he started shooting civilians and law enforcement. >> so as we stand now, you would consider this situation contained? >> well, i'm only seeing and hearing what i have on tv now, and it sounds like they've got it contained to that planned parenthood location. and i'm assuming if that's, in fact, true, that they're going to get in there immediately and end this as quick as possible. >> in this situation, obviously -- maybe not obviously, it's me asking, but are they trying to talk to the person? >> well, like i said, i hope not. this is not a time for negotiation. people in negotiations have something to lose. a mass murderer typically and statistically are suicide missions anyway. so you can't go on the premise that we'll negotiate with him and he won't shoot anybody in the meantime.
he shot so many people already, you got to make immediate entry and engage him. at this point, he can give up or he can be killed, there's no in-between. >> stay with us, please. i would definitely like to check back with you later as we learn more. sources familiar with this developing situation told nbc news that the gunman is surrounded in the lobby of planned parenthood. he has an ak-47, and that the scene is very much active. that is definitely the latest that we have heard from colorado springs here at this moment. we have confirmed four officers injured. an unknown amount of civilians. we are understanding that the gunman is now contained inside the planned parenthood. we know that officers, s.w.a.t. teams, have that situation surrounded as people are still taking shelter within the stores that they were in, either customers, or as employees when this all started at 11:38 this
morning in colorado springs, colorado, at this shopping center. still very much an active shooter situation in colorado springs. stay with us. you're watching msnbc. i brought in some protein to get us moving. i'm new ensure active high protein. i help you recharge with nutritious energy and strength. i'll take that. yeeeeeah! new ensure active high protein. 16 grams of protein and 23 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in. nobody's hurt,but there will you totstill be pain.new car. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car?
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>> the number of victims in colorado springs, there are three patients at the memorial hospital and five at penrose. so we know there are at least eight shooting victims. four of those are officers. joining me now is nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete, can you fill us in on whatever you've been hearing? >> well, kate, no, not really. my sole contact here at the federal authorities and this is very much in the hands of the colorado springs police. earlier, they had not asked for any assistance from the fbi, but a short time ago they did, and the fbi can provide additional manpow manpower, but the whole operation here at this point is totally in the hands of the colorado springs police. this is all happening within
their area, they're the ones in charge. it may be that once this is all over, that the fbi can assist in helping to reconstruct what happened inside that building, which is a specialty the fbi has, and also looking into the background of this person, who as far as we know from all the reports, came into the building for some reason today, with a high-powered rifle and has been shooting outside the building. we don't know whether he also shot inside the building. we've heard nothing really of substance really about what happened to people inside. we just know that the victims that were outside that have been confirmed, are police officers, who were responding to this call this afternoon from the planned parenthood building. but why he was there, what he came in to do, why he was in the area, we just don't know any of those questions. so this is not a federal operation. this is very much in the hands of the local police and the fbi's there to provide additional manpower to the
extent that it's needed. pete, i just want to make things very clear and you can help me do that, because we know that the gunman is now inside planned parenthood. but we've talked to people earlier. we're not giving away their locations. but they've said that the shooting happened, it started in the area around a bank. so at this point, do we even know if he just wound up hiding in planned parenthood, or if this actually has something to do with that being a target? do we know that? >> i certainly don't. i think that's a fair question. it's a very good question and i'm sure it's one that we'll hear the answer to soon as this is over, shortly after it's over. but the police have their hands full, trying to bring it to a peaceful close. what they want to do is make sure no one else is would like possible, arrest the gunman alive to get answers to some of those questions, but if they have to do it in other ways, they will. they want to make sure that nobody else gets shot. no other innocent victims here
are shot during -- as this plays out. it's going to get dark soon, and i'm sure they want this resolved soon. >> let's go back to our clint van zandt, former profiler and -- your insights is invaluable to us. we have more questions than answers. right now, one thing we do seem to understand, it has not been declared contained, but it is understood that the gunman is inside planned parenthood, police are in there as well, s.w.a.t. teams. what do you make of that? and what are the options at this point? i've heard two things. i've heard they could probably try to talk to him, or it's just too late. >> well, when you get in that close and you have more officers and perhaps civilians inside
whose lives are in danger, these are very quick decisions. basically the choices are surrender or die, as far as the shooter is concerned. either he drops the weapon or law enforcement will do what they have to. realize, you've already enumerated up to eight people a shooter every chance you have to surrender. of course, you do. but once you go tactical, once you make the decision you have to go in to save lives, you only way any other -- would take place would be when the shooter threw his weapon down and surrender and law enforcement told him how that surrender was going to take place. i totally agree with nbc's pete williams that you want to resolve these situation in light. you want to be able to see -- you don't want to have to deal with the night vision capability. i've been inside of buildings,
been inside offices where we have a suspect. it's a very tightly contained situation, law enforcement has been to be careful they don't get crossfire and lined up, you knee, with friendly fire situation taking place. but realize it was reported upwards of an hour ago that law enforcement had made an entry. we have a description of a suspect that i know we're not putting out yet. we'll wait for law enforcement to put that out, but needless to say that description was one person at this time. so if a tactical team made entry, as some of your other guests would say, their first respond is to get to that shooter and neutralize him as quick as possible. these are lessons we learned like from the columbine shooting in, of course, colorado, once again where officers know that even if you encounter someone who's been injured or wounded, you have to move past them, you have to get to the shooter to stop him from shooting.
once you've neutralized the shooter, then you back out and deal with any other wounded or injured, but at this time officers has to be one-minded, stop the shooting then we'll deal with anything else. all right. clint, stay with us, because you can see on this live picture on msnbc, snow is picking up, night is clearly falling in colorado springs, colorado, where there is an active shooter situation. it seems that the gunman is in fact contained by s.w.a.t. teams inside of planned parenthood at this shopping center in colorado springs, where customers and people who work there have been hiding inside their businesses all day, as this onslaught of law enforcement continues to fall on the shopping center. hopefully as we move towards a resolution and colorado springs. you're watching msnbc. hoices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back.
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as night seems to be falling. that snow is certainly picking up inside the shopping center in the area of colorado springs, colorado. joining mess now is trevor hughes, a reporter who is on the seen, rocky mountain correspondent for "usa today." thank you for being here with us. is there anything you can tell us you have seen on the ground that we have not seen from where we are? >> the only thing that's starting to make me feel good about the situation is i've seen a number of people evacuated. they've been reunited -- at least one group reunited with their families. they're coming from -- i don't want to give away locations. so were they probably people inside a business today. >> they were -- so the people -- and i can say this, because i've already reported there. there was a young woman inside planned parenthood, and i saw her reunited with her family.
>> is she okay? >> reporter: she seemed fine. she had been there for some society of health care visit. sell was not pregnant or have kids, and she was a the phone with her brother. he actually heard the shots. >> maybe you can shed light on there. it's not clear. did it start at planned pare parentho parenthood? >> reporter: as i've been saying, it's a fluid situation, we really don't know the answer to the question. the gentleman on the phone he heard the shots while she was in planned parenthood, but it's unclear where those shots took place. if you heard gunfire before, it can carry easily, so it's unclear where the situation began and where it's unfolding -- >> especially with what's been described as a high-powered rifle. >> reporter: i've heard that again, but i'm uncomfortable
reporting what i haven't fae heard personally. how many have been evacuated. >> i would guess a handful. there's probably three or four people with blank either or coats around their shoulders that were driven maybe about a block away. there's a veterans administration clinic where they're being reunited with families or being staged up and getting warm. >> i keep noticing every time i look at this live picture, it's darker and darker and looks like the snow is picking up. is there any sign you can see that those are factors in how this is going? >> reporter: i will tell you its very cold, 21 degrees, but it feels much colder, it's snows heavily and definitely starting to get dark. the police officers in the s.w.a.t. van have gone back toward the scene. they went back a while ago. we haven't seen any action here, but i could say where the darkness or the cold would be a factor. these folks are obviously
trained for these kinds of things, but it's definitely tough on the first responders trying to help the victims. >> i can't see it right now, but i know for a fact at least a little while ago there was a line of ambulances waiting. >> reporter: that's right. i've counted something like 14 ambulances. 14? >> at least 14. it's a little hard to tell, because it's snowing pretty heavily. it's hard to tell if that's for victims, potential victims, if that is, god forbid that more police officers are hurt, but you know, there are a lot of medical professionals here and a lot of firefighters as well as heavy law enforcement. >> do you have a confirmed number? >> reporter: i do not have a confirmed number myself. it has changed a number of times, and i hate to go out on a limb and be wrong. >> as you and i both know, and i'm sure as we have all covered way too many situations like this, the numbers do change. >> reporter: they do. that's -- one always has to be
careful, because a lot of times the initial information is incorrect and it's easy for people to grab a narrative and follow that, but it's really important to make sure we have all the facts when we report them. >> thank you so much. you are on scene. definitely be safe out there, as we hope for a resolution here in colorado springs, colorado, in a situation that's been going on there since 11:38 this morning with an active shooter, who is still considered active though contained at this point. we hope there's a little piece in the road of progress. several peoples, including police officers, have already been injured. we will be right back with more on this situation on msnbc. whatever you're doing, plan well and enjoy life... ♪
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we are continuing to follow a breaking news situation in colorado springs. a very dangerous and very present situation involving law enforcement. at least one shooter, and a number of civilians still stuck inside stores and area businesses inside this shopping center in colorado springs. since about 11:38 this morning local time, we found out a little while ago that the president has in fact been made aware of everything that's going on and following that. joining mess is kristin welker, who is at the white house. what are you hearing? >> reporter: melissa, president obama just arrived back here at the white house. he had been playing golf.
a white house official confirms he was briefed about the situation in colorado earlier today b. lisa monaco. this is typical when these situations are unraveling. and of course, the details are still emerging, but this president is no stranger to these type of violent situations. in fact, as of october 1st, he has spoken in the wake of at least a dozen mass shootings. of course, most recently that mass shooting at the oregon community college that claimed so many lives. you recall there was a breaking point for this administration back in 2012, back when 20 children were kind at sandy hook elementary. that called for the president to call for stiffer gun laws, something that would never come to pass. in recent mass shootings, he talked about how americans will almost become numb. he's acknowledged his own
ability to actually get any new legislation passed. this has become an emotional topic for this president, for this administration we were just told that there's a lid at the white house. it's highly unlikely that we'll hear or see the president tonight, but that does not mean he's not monitoring the situation. we expect updates throughout the evening. >> as you were just saying that, i was thinking about the tone the last time the president came out and spoke about instances such as this. i remember watching that, thinking that the president i don't know if it's the right word. he seemed patient, almost aggravated that we have so many times like these. >> reporter: angry i think is fair to say. he as spoken so many times in the wake of these shootings, called on the nation to find a better solution.
it's an incredibly divisive topic. it remains a divisive topic on the campaign trail, and it's not a too manic that legislature has been ability to come together on. he speaks with a lot of emotion and angers in a wake of these situations. we have to stress that the details in this instance are still just coming together, the administration monitoring it closely. kristin welker, thanks very much. do we still have jim cavanaugh? jim, what we do not know at this point in any way, shape or form if planned parenthood was a target or he just wound up there
we've talked to some eyewitnesses, they say they heard shots, were told to immediately hide, and then did that. >> i've been to the scene of busted bank robberies, so it could very well be a busted bank robbery, but it could also be an attack on planned parenthood. we've seen many attacks on them over the years, a lot of bomb and arson attacks. we don't know that yet. but what we know now, milissa, that means the colorado springs police tactical unit, their s.w.a.t. team has him surrounded. it's unclear if there are any citizens still in danger, but they have evacuated citizens since that report came out.
once they located them, now they have isolated them, it's unclear if any sit wane remain in harms way. he could be in there with a backpack full of ammunition, or a paper bomb strapped on him. so they're going to take it medically. he's not going to win, he's not going to get out. if he's alone, the on-scene commander can deal with that very smartly and methodically. he could charge in a suicide by cop scenario with his last magazine, and of course s.w.a.t. will deal with that as well. he could surrender. there's a lot of avenues there. >> he's been in there a while -- i'm saying he. i'm assuming he. we don't know anything, really about the shooter at this point what does it say about somebody
who knows it's over and is still. >> there's so many people shot here. this is the thing. usually someone trying to get away from a robbery is doing just that. they're not trying to shoot everybody in sight, but trying to get away with the money, the motive is greed. if it's an attack on a clinic, that's a completely different motive. it stems from revenge or hate, power, you know, it could about political motives, they're against what the clinic does. we don't know the answer, but if a lot of people are shot, it's sure to make you wonder what's going on in there. he's shooting at the officers, but remember, s.w.a.t. has a lot of people there. they're trained, there's a lot of officers. if he's in the lobby, he may be just in a room off the lobby, not standing in the middle of the lobby. he could be in a bathroom, he could be in a stairway. he could be in a room just off
the lobby, and where there's no egress. in other words, that's the only way in and out is that one door, and s.w.a.t. has him contained. so he won't be able to leave unless he's killed or charges out in a suicide by cop or surrenders. if that's the scenario. the fact he's surrounded by s.w.a.t. is very important, and it also means and you've been correctly reporting on the people in other buildings, some have been evacuated now. that's because s.w.a.t. knows where he is, he know his field of fire. they know where they can remove people safely out the rear of adjoining buildings. people should do what the police say, stay lo, don't go near the windows and follow their directions. that's why we've seen more evacuations. >> if this had been -- again, we don't know, if this had been a botched bank robbery, and this person is hanging in there
because he's got a shred of hope, would we have heard of anything about demands for exit? et cetera? would we have heard something like that? or would that be secretive? >> well, no, sometimes that happens. the human mind does a lot of things. you could even have the guy want to talk to you even if he went to shoot up the clinic. if his last day, he might want to get his pledge to the s.w.a.t. officers. he may well be yelling bands back and forth with the s.w.a.t. officers, you know. i'm going to die, you're going to get it, i hate these people. who knows? there could be conversation or there could be complete silence. >> a person that's suicidal may talk. >> jim, stay with us, please. we're going to take a quick break as this very tense situations in colorado springs continues, and we are following it very closely. we know eight people are injured. were trying to find out, and
obviously hoping for the best as hopefully night falls, this comes to a resolution as police are on the scene in colorado springs. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive?
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local authorities are asking people affected by this situation to call 211 to check on fame. plain parenthood has issued a statement -- our hearts go out to everyone involved in this tragic situation. planned parenthood has strong security measures in place, works closely with law enforcement agencies and has a very strong safety record we don't know the full situation and don't yet know if planned
parenthood was in fact the targets of this attack. we share the concerns of many americans that extremists are creating a poisonous environment that feeds domestic terrorism in this country. we will never back away from providing care in a safe, supportive environment that millions of people rely on and trust. due to the active shooter situation in colorado, as a precautionary measure, the new york city police department has deployed critical response vehicles to planned parenthood locations throughout the city. there are currently no specific threats to any new york city locations at this time. we want to listen into some coverage from our affiliate koaa that is following this breaking news situation in their own neighborhood. >> how many people were in that klinic to begin with today, but obviously a lot of people off today. it's been a very busy day,
traditional a big shopping day. this is a heavily populated shopping area, so understandably a lot of concern about just how many people are inside that facility, how many people are going to be safely removed from that facility. >> a number of those patients have been transmitted to penrose main. let's go lick to kelsey with an update. kells? >> reporter: well, that's right, we are now confirming six patients have been brought here to penrose main hospital hospital near downtown colorado springs. still a heavy police presence here at the scene, though we haven't seen many more ambulances since the last time we checked in. again there are six patients here. we're still not sure if they are officers -- of the four ciphers that had been shot or if they
are civilians that were injured. when initial reports came in, they told us three and we do believe those three could have been officers. we're told those patients have been here for a long time. so possibly three officers, a total of six patients here at penrose main. again, no ambulances have dropped off recently, but we'll continue to stay here and work to learn some of the kin of the patients. the hospital staff is very busy trying to save lives right now. we'll update when we can. >> thank you soech, kelsey kennedy we also know there are three patients at memorial hospital. again, conditions -- >> and fillmore is now working on five hours. let's check in with zach. what do you have, zach?
>> reporter: we're about a mile away. sorry for the camera adjustment there. it's a fluid situation, as you understand. about a mile away, still crennel tenial from garden of the gods all the way to fillmore shut down, and for good reason. this location is quite calm. really the folks here are shoppers at the nearby businesses or media who have descended on the location, including national media, who are beginning to arrive. i spoke with a gentleman who said his girlfriend is inside, perhaps the planned parenthood. he heard from her about an hour ago. at this point probably close to an hour and a half ago. don't know if he's made additional contact, but certainly was concerned as to the status of her safety, considering the number of patients that have been brought out who were inside planned parenthood who were clients or possibly workers, in addition to the police officers who have
been injured or law enforcement officers. we don't know -- the officers or those details are yet to come, lt. buckley with the colorado springs department has been providing those updates so far. a very rapidly developing situation. if you have business on the west side along the crennel tentenni plan on something fells. we're going to try to locate to a different area that might be better suited, but there is a police presence here at fillmore, andless for quite some time until this situation resolves itself, hopefully peacefully. rob and lisa, back to you. >> thank you so much for the update from the other end of the street. we're back live with our look at fillmore and sene tengial. where the last update we got,
where that suspected shooter was holed up inside the planned parenthood building. she want they were actively engaged. >> we have not hard from either our reporters on scene or others who might be close that, in fact, was an active shooting situation. >> we are listening right now to local coverage of this breaking news situation with an active shooter in colorado springs at a little shopping area there. we know that a few people have been released, but a number of people are still holed up in stores and businesses. as this situation, we don't know where it started, but it certainly has ended inside the planned parenthood offices. and just right now from hillary clinton, presidential candidate tweeted out, today and every day, we stand with --
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team members inside, as well, we're all waiting to find out how this will end. hopefully, with nobody else hurt. certainly no more officers or innocent bystanders as there have been several today. joining me now by phone is the law enforcement instructor and former s.w.a.t. team leader of jefferson county, colorado. so you have a unique perspective as to what is happening in there right now. what would be your best guess? >> well, i certainly do, and my law enforcement sources are saying that this is going to be ending soon. so i assume they're going to be making an entry if they have not already soon. >> i'm sorry. this is going to be a what scene? i didn't hear you. >> well, my sources are telling me this is going to end very soon. they're going to be making entry in the building soon or into that room very soon. and hopefully confronting the shooter. they need to keep in mind that, you know, on an average, every
15 seconds someone's shot once the active shooter starts. i hope they're taking that into consideration right now and make that entry as soon as possible. >> does darkness factor in? >> no, this is going to be inside a building. so, not necessarily, no. >> and in other words, and i have to trust you here to say or not say something that you think might compromise anybody in any way. but, for instance, when darkness falls, will they just turn out the lights? >> well, in this case, you wouldn't want to do that. you're going to need it as much as he's going to need the light. in this case, i wouldn't turn it off. however, i'd cut all communication to that building and all cell phone communication in the entire area off so he can see and can't make phone calls in or out. i'm assuming they've done that long ago. >> you have been in these situations before yourself, right? >> yes, three of them, actually. >> we were told earlier that s.w.a.t. team members are just
trained to be very, very calm. but, how does it actually feel? >> well, we do. we practice these over and over and over. so you do have a sense of calm. but there's still that major adrenaline rush as the moments come. and as the door opens. and certainly, you have that fight or flight adrenaline rush that everybody has. they'll get through that door very quickly. and end it very quickly. the only way this guy's going to make it out alive is if he sets the gun down and holds his hands up or lays flat on the ground. other than that, he should be taken out. >> if you're the officer inside there right now, do you think there's a conversation going on? >> well, i assume there is some sort of negotiation, it's flipped over to negotiations. however, my experience has been it's not the best tactics in an active shooter. as soon as you get the opportunity to get in there, take him out, as quick as possible, and stop him from
harming anybody else, you need to take that opportunity. >> so, here's what we know, which is not much. we've heard high-powered rifle. we have one gunman we know of contained inside planned parenthood. in other words, this could have ended in one way or another a while back. what does that tell you about this person? >> well, it's telling me they flipped over to negotiations right now. they're trying to negotiate him out. so this is -- if, in fact, that's what occurred, this could go on for quite a while. if that's the case, then they should be making preparations for an entry while they're doing the negotiations. >> what are the options? take us through a couple of scenarios. for instance, we don't know where this started. it is in planned parenthood right now. we don't know if that was the target or if it was random or it had something to do with a grudge or a bank. but it's there now.
so what kind of -- take us through who this could be. it could be a person who feels suicidal or a person who feels hopeful to get out of this situation. >> statistically, shooters are suicidal. so working on that alone, that's why i'm saying, make immediate entry. normally, statistically they don't care. they don't care if they get out alive. they want to take out as many people as they can to get as much notoriety they can before it comes to an end. you have to keep that in mind while you're doing the negotiations that this guy may not care if he lives. >> what does it tell you that they have been in there with this shooter as long as they have, though? >> well, obviously it tells me two things. the negotiations going on and not shooting anybody. because once the shot goes inside that room, they will make immediate entry. it's going to be over very quickly if that occurs. with those two things in mind, hopefully, maybe in a positive
direction the guy does care if he lives or dies, hopefully it ends very peacefully. however, i'm skeptical. >> so obviously, to be a member of a s.w.a.t. team in a situation like this, you have got to be trained in an enormous amount of patience. >> yeah. we spend the majority of our time doing hostage rescue and practicing response to the active shooter. and all around colorado being ground zero for active shooters, all the s.w.a.t. team, including colorado springs are very versed in this. we practice ll the time. and we know statistically it's going to happen in colorado. so we've practiced it over and over, we're very good at it. colorado springs is very good at it. >> as the darkness falls, does that mean anything for the people who are hiding in stores? is that an opportunity for them to get out? >> that's a good question. i hope it allows them an opportunity and law enforcement to get to them and get them out
as quick as possible. so in that light, it's good it's getting dark and they can get other people out of nearby buildings and evacuate the locations. >> let's hope so. >> will you stay with us? your information is extremely valuable to us as this -- >> i will. >> thank you. i really appreciate that. we want to listen back into to our local affiliate. >> situation where others are being held hostage. >> and we knew that six patients had been brought to penrose main, three patients to memorial hospital. the only confirmation we got from colorado springs police were that four of those patients were colorado springs police officers. and as we heard earlier, on the scanner traffic, the very initial call when the officers pulled up to the scene, they were taking fire. they were taking active fire. we're not sure if those are among the officers that were injured initially. >> we wanted to give you a better looks