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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 3, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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picture. >> good to see you ari. thank you so much. thank you for watching msnbc live. hardball starts right now. >> lone wolves, this is hardball. good evening. i am chris matthews in washington. it could be a case of lone wolf radicalized islamist terrorism. it could have been worse. the pair planted bombs to create a greater scene of carnage. it started a vicious attack on president obama by donald trump. he said the president was hiding something about himself. something dark in his past and identity that makes him defensive about suspected terrorism that keeps him from
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condemning it for what it is. authorities have yet to nail down the motive of the san bernardino massacre. syed rizwan farook and his wife tashfeen malik were likely radicalized and in touch with people in the los angeles area expressing jihadist views and he was linked to persons of interests to american authorities. authorities also try to determine who may have helped supply them with the stockpiles of ammunition, bombs and weapons that authorities recovered. according to the police the attackers used four guns firing up to 75 rounds killing 14 and wounding 21 others and rigged three remote controlled pipe bombs that failed to detonate. four magazines were found at the scene after a deadly confrontation with police. 1,600 rounds of ammunition were
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found in their body and rented car. investigators went to the suspect's house. here is jarrod burguan. >> there were 12 pipe bomb-type devices found in that house. there were also hundreds of tools, many used to construct ieds or pipe bombs and in addition to that other materials to produce additional bombs as well. there were another 2,000 rounds found at that house. over 2,500 .223 rounds and several hundred long rifle rounds that were found there. >> to recap, 12 pipe bombs, bomb making tools and material, thousands of rounds of ammunition. these guys were ready for war. we begin with mark potter outside the suspect's house. give us the picture there from
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the scene. >> well, this is the scene here just on the other side of this crime tape 100 yards down to the right of those white cars is an permit police say was presented by the two shooters. not clear if they live there or if they use it as some sort of workshop. authorities are saying the apartment is critical to their investigation while they are figuring out the motive. most critical are the things found there, computers, flash drive, cell phones. they will be taken by the fbi to the lab to be analyzed carefully. not only to answer the question about motive but perhaps whether anyone was associated with them directly or in terms of inspiring violent acts. agents have been going through a car outside. we have seen agents going in and out of the apartment all day.
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they were analyzing a car. the 5,000 rounds of ammo. the 12 pipe bombs and the tools causing some people today to say that this was in effect a bomb making factory. eventually the agents hope to put it all together, computer data, dna, fingerprints, hair and fiber. all of the stuff that would come from a scene like this to paint a picture of who the couple was, who they were associated with and what they were up to. >> let's put together the magazines that were left there with all of the firepower. also the three pipe bombs that were taped together ready to be detonated by a remote device. the question is were they planning to wait for the first responders, the police to arrive. the hospital people to arrive. emergency workers and then blow the whole place up. seems like that was the plan. >> there was another plan that
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was also suggested. again, we don't know. another suggestion is they could have done a second attack at another place. that perhaps the attack at the facility wasn't the one they planned on. it was inspired because of an argument at the party. but that is all speculation and another version of the discussion you are hearing. they don't know what happened. they don't know why it happened. they still can't call it terrorism. they are getting closer to perhaps being able to do that at some point but they are still working on that motive. that is job one and they haven't answered that question yet, chris. >> mark potter, nbc news. pete williams joins us now. we are trying to figure out what happened. >> absolutely. that is the big question. to your question about what the remote controlled device was doing in the conference center where the shooting was, that is
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precisely one of the theories. maybe they would do the shooting. they would leave. they would either wait for the first responders or get a distance away and press the button. maybe they were too far away or badly designed. they are trying to figure that out now. the remote controller they found was in tack. the interesting thing about it is that the remote control device was based on one for a model car. that is precisely the formula used to build the boston marathon bombs and the formula for the boston marathon bombs came from inspire magazine. the device here that did not go off seems to have been built along those lines using the inspire magazine instructions. if that is the case that would suggest they are looking at that radical material. the fbi is also trying to see
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whether or not the same plan could be found elsewhere in non-jihadist sources. >> let's talk about the two young people in their 20s, one from pakistan. they get together. do we know how they got together? before or after they were radicalized? what is the sequence? >> not clear. appears they met two years ago when they met on a muslim pilgrimage. he told people he was going to saudi arabia to pick up the wife he met online. that seems to be what happened. she was from pakistan. they met. at least that is the story he gave to friends and the people that he worked with. she came in on this fiance visa.
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they were married here. she was apparently a lawful permanent resident. we don't know if she was seeking u.s. citizenship. >> so much of it does not fit a usual pattern. you are the expert looking for patterns. one leaving behind a 6 month old child. parents leave their kids. to leave the child behind with the grandparent saying they were going to a doctor's appointment and minutes later killing 14 people and adding up to 35, it is extraordinary. putting it all together. leaving a child forever. not leaving the crime scene. they could have been well away in the two hours before they were caught. those three steps don't fit together. dumping the kid and staying in the area. >> in fact i think first of all, i totally agree. it is hard to find a rational
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explanation. it shows their familiarity with this event. they did get all the way back to redlands, california, where that house was that you saw mark potter. the authorities heard about syed rizwan farook from the witnesses there at the center and say we think he was involved. figured out where the house was. they saw the two of them get into the suv as the fbi was staking out the house. the police chased the suv. the suv went back down towards where the shooting scene was. initially they were far away. >> they went a distance and came back to the crime scene. do you know why they did or just the direction they were escaping? >> i think it was the direction they were escaping. they had all of this additional firepower in the car.
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assault weapons with many rounds. at one point as the police are chasing them they tossed out a pipe people thought would be an explosive but just a copper pipe looking like a fuse to perhaps slow the police down. that is another question. one, what was their motive. the second thing is were they intending other attacks? you would certainly think so because of all of this material they were stockpiling. >> the woman in this case malik was firing from the car and she was active in this assault even until the end. >> authorities say as the car was speeding away, syed rizwan farook was driving and she was shooting out the back. they stop the car. they don't believe the police disabled the car. both turned and started to shoot at the police. there was an amazing exchange of
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gunfire and the two were killed. >> horrible. thank you so much as always, pete williams. now i am joined by malcolm nantz. he is now the executive director of the project. malcolm, give us a sense about this attack. fill us in on what is missing. the cement that could possibly put the whole story together. >> this is an absolutely fascinating attack. i can tell you as a professional they will be writing about this attack. there are so many factors that don't add up. you have what is a radicalized person that creates large quantities of explosives and weapons systems and goes to his workplace to do workplace violence. then goes out. goes back to his home. appears to be going for a restrike to do something else instead of getting on the 10,
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driving into los angeles and having a shootout at malibu beach. where this came from, there is some form of radicalization that occurred. they watched the videos and they wanted to carry out a jihad-type operation and then we have a bizarre factor of where they decided to do it at. >> malcolm, they sort of put their costumes on. these black uniforms, military sort of things. they get in a ford expedition. looks like a military vehicle. they want to go out in style? they literally go out in style. were they planning a stand off at the end? they didn't plan to get away did they? >> i have been talking to law enforcement across the united states calling me asking about that very question. why not conduct a full-scale massacre. they went into a room with people in wheelchairs with nurses and carried out the
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softest target attack they could find. they will be ridiculed within the jihadi community for this. they didn't try to carry out a serious attack. but on the other hand you have to ask yourself why would they carry out the attack within their own community and not go on to something further because they clearly practiced this. they built bombs that were very dangerous. then they had the weapon systems. this woman knew how to operate that weapon system which took a great quantity of training. >> how about the whole thing. couldn't it have been a bait. they were going to shoot a bunch of people in the room knowing first responders would arrive and kill them all. that would be quite a shot if they wanted to make a noise. right?
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it could have been. they horrified themselves. we don't get people carrying out the dual suicide barricades that jump in their car and drive back to their residence knowing law enforcement will be on them in short amount of time unless they were go to restrike another target. this did not make sense and spells out confusion in the minds of these terrorists. >> then headed back past the crime scene itself. michael, your turn now. >> they tried to destroy the phones and their electronics and that slowed the investigators down. >> in that time apparently. >> they clearly -- you don't just destroy the phone. there were preparations that gone into place. they found the electronics. that slowed their ability to see
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who else they were talking to. sending the electronics back to the east coast for technicians to look at them and get as much as they can out of them. in the house there was a work area. there was extra powder they hadn't used in other explosives. the question is are these regular shooters we see in this country all the time or jihadists or a combination of both? >> fill that point. there is always the political argument. should we call them islamist terrorists. where is there evidence of religious radicalization? >> all we know is that the fbi identified a handful of people he was in contact with that they investigated. none of them were ever charged. look, the fbi investigated a lot of people since september 11th. the idea that he knew someone that was investigated is not
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farfetched. he was talking to people abroad and a handful of people and say this is odd and look at the preparations he had. this is not your average mass shooter. it is the combination of both. >> walk like a duck kind of thing. >> a combination of things and it has been difficult because they have never seen anything like this. >> we are learning so much but not enough yet. thank you for your great analysis. much more ahead on the massacre in california. we go back to the ground where the community is holding a vigil in honor of the 14 that lost their lives and we will get to the political fallout. presidential candidates are going to their battle stations with the frontrunner making dark allegations about president obama once again. our coverage continues after this. ♪
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>> here he is. >> it is of course the most wonderful time of the year. but we would be remiss not to take a moment to remember our fellow americans whose hearts are heavy tonight, who grieve for loved ones, especially in san bernardino, california. their loss is our loss too. we are all one american family. we look out for each other. in good times and in bad. they should know that all of us care about them this holiday season. they are in our thoughts and prayers and we send them our
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x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. >> we are back with our coverage of the massacre in san bernardino. the names much the 14 victims have been released and tonight the city of san bernardino will hold a vigil in honor of those that lost their life. blake, give us a sense of what we can't see on television of the mood and the feeling out there. >> i was at the scene of the shooting earlier. we saw people coming to the scene with flowers and hugging each other. clearly an emotional time for the community. a community with very heavy hearts. there will be a candlelight vigil here at the stadium organized by the city. when you think about how many victims there are and how many
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lives were touched by this they are expecting a large crowd, 4,000 people expected here tonight. you said the corner came out with the official ideas, ranging from age 26 to 60. michael wetzel. 37 years old. married and a father of six. he could be seen around town with the kids shopping. one of his kids is an infant. nicholas thalasinos, he was a health inspector working along side farook, the shooter. a martyr for that faith. a second grade teacher and knew her husband was dead when she heard of the attacks and was texting him and got no response. and daniel kaufman. he ran the coffee shop at that regional center. his boyfriend said he was initially told kaufman was shot in the arm and was in surgery. he learned that was
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misinformation and his boyfriend was in fact dead. >> a workplace anger issue to finding out it was international in nature and had to do with jihadism. how did the community react to the shift if you will? >> there is a lot of confusion over how the shift happened. we spoke with the director of the mosque. he said it was a deeply religious man. somebody that came to prayer as much as twice a day and sometimes on his lunch break but no signs he was radicalized. the only sign the director of the mosque said there was is that he stopped coming to prayer at some point the past few weeks. >> thanks, blake. last night's shooting follows two attacks in this country that has raised the concern of domestic terrorism in may.
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isis claimed responsibility when two gunmen opened fire in garland, texas and marines and a sailor were shot and killed by a naturalized american citizen who was a home grown extremist. there are investigations now in people in various stages of radicalizing in all 50 states. what can we do legislatively congresswoman to deal with home grown terrorism? >> well, you know, what we are looking at in this particular case is somebody that is born here in the united states. it is very difficult to see and to point to something that we can actually do against that. what we do know is that we are trying to tighten up the loopholes that we have with respect to those that are
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traveling abroad or come after traveling to iraq or syria and will put a few more of the countries on the list for a double check. this was a united states citizen. very difficult to ipinpoint. you heard that there was no real indication. yes, even our muslim, our mosques in my district are constantly aware to see if there are any changes going on and are working with us. the best work we have is the one done directly in the community with the community. >> let me ask you about that problem. this fella, i say it nicely, this person. he went over to saudi arabia for an religious experience. there is nothing wrong with that. we believe in freedom of religion. he went over to pakistan and found a wife through social media. everyone seeks to find if you
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are a male looking for a wife. there is nothing criminal in any of the acts separately. he was looking for someone very religious. that is okay by american standards. where is the red line? what could authorities be looking for. a fella goes to a mosque and starts screaming bloody murder about american life. short of that, how do we know? >> chris, that is the same question a lot of my colleagues are asking tonight. how do we do that. to be american is to be -- to have access. to have freedom. to practice your religion. to go on pilgrimage. i have gone as a catholic to rome and many go to jerusalem. just the act of doing something like that should we be
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scrutinized for it? we have to have a dialogue about what is it to be american. if we begin to shut down the freedoms that you and i enjoy are we losing our americanism? it is really deep set and a thoughtful process i think we have to go and take a look at. >> that is depressing, but i think it is honest. thank you so much. up next, the political fallout that comes with each mass shooting the 2016 presidential field weighing in for better or worse on this tragedy in california and in a lot of these cases it is for the worst. this is hardball, a place for politics. at t. rowe price, our disciplined investment approach remains. we ask questions here. look for risks there. and search for opportunity everywhere. global markets may be uncertain. but you can feel confident in our investment experience... ... around the world.
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workplace related. i can assure the american people we can get to the bottom of this. we are going to be vigilent in getting the facts before we issue any decisive judgments in terms of how this occurred. are are th >> that was president obama earlier today. republicans had their minds made up. the gop candidates hit hard on the terrorist theme. here is what they had to say. >> at this point the details of what happened in san bernardino are still unclear. but our prayers are with the families of those that were murdered and those that were shot and all of us are deeply
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concerned that this is another manifestation of terrorism. coming on the wake of the terror attack in paris. this horrific murder under scores that we are at a time of war. >> this is not about gun control. if you think it is about gun control you don't understand what is going on in the world. it is about two people that baud into an ideology that has to be combatted. >> donald trump questioned the president's loyalty. >> we had another event that probably was related. it always happens. but probably was. when i heard about it, i figured maybe not but turns out probably was related.
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radical islamic terrorism and we have a president that refuses to use the term. he refuses to say it. there is something going on with him that we don't know about. as far as hillary is concerned, she is going to go with what he wants. >> trump's remarks seem like a calculated appeal for support. 43% of republicans say they believe president obama is a muslim. trump's chief rival, ted cruz, frequently attacks the president for refusing to call terrorists radical islamists and trump is implying that obama is in league with them and that is what he is doing. the implication is clear and suggestion is clear that he has something to hide. something in his background like the fact that he is really maybe
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one of them if you will, one of the terror people. he says it in such a dark way. >> this is the dark heart of fear donald trump has been appealing to from the moment he came on the scene as a political figure. during the movement he started in 2012. he is continuing to use it as his main emotional calling card. the center piece of his campaign, and i covered his campaign for quite a while is fear. fear of the outsider. whatever mystery or implications he can create or sew he is going to do it because he presents himself as the shining knight that is going to take care of all. >> i don't think donald trump believes any of this. i think he knows he sells it. the people are wealthy men most of them in the room today that
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are sophisticated people and read the "new york times" and they know obama is what he says he is. a graduate of columbia and harvard law school. they know all of those things as facts. yet they applaud like mad when he implies he is some sort -- >> it is something growing on the republican side. used to be about 25% to 30% of republicans. >> newspaper readers. >> it is now growing to half of the republican electorate. that is the fear being stoked in the base for people like donald trump and ben carson to get ahead. i don't think the audience in today's room believe it but they believe a lot of what he says.
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>> let's put our puntit hats on. it seems to me that the cosmos has shifted from it could have been a gun violence issue pure and simple. now we are back to what we are used to. isn't this good for trump? it shifts away from dr. ben carson who is not the guy you go to for international terrorism. evangelicals biggest concern is terrorism. >> yes. i was going to mention that particular thing, iowa. we are now only a few weeks away. >> we are like jack and bob kennedy. we don't even have to say it. >> we are only a few weeks away from the february 1st iowa republican and democratic caucuses. evangelical christians are the hardest working people that show up the most and essentially
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control the caucuses. to the extent that the republican race wasn't all about fear and loathing of the other it all is now. and every one of these candidates. right on the eve of christmas. to watch barack obama, we had the clip of barack obama standing in front of the sparkling christmas lights saying we are all one family at the time the donald trump and ted cruz are are trying to undercut his authority. that tells you right where politics is right now. >> smart republican money is on people that want to be divided and see the president as an alien. >> right. i think i want to bring up the issue of gun control. it is remarkable how fast the focus shifted. >> we are talking about pipe
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bombs. >> i agree with you. it is a part of the story. i am afraid the front of the story right now will be terrorism. >> the people in the room that applauded today should be ashamed of themselves. >> that's the last line of the show. if they are smarter than that and better americans. anyways, thank you. great to have you on. up next we get new details. two reporters out there covering the story on the ground. our coverage continues after this. hey i'm here on the red carpet where our next arrival is... whoa! toenail fungus!? fight it! with jublia. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. are you getting this?! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness,
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>> there were 12 pipe bomb-type devices found in that house or in the garage to that house. there were hundreds of tools, many of which could be used to construct ieds. 2,000 rounds found at that house. over 2,500 .223 rounds found. nobody gets upset at a party and puts together that type of elaborate scheme or plan to do that. >> welcome back to hardball. the investigation continues into the killers responsible for wednesday's deadly rampage in san bernardino that left 14 people killed and 21 wounded. law enforcement officials are combing the crime scene for clues in three separate locations. tim, you first, give us a sense of what we see besides the incredible firepower and
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explosive material available to this couple that would only suggest a grand scheme to kill a lot of people. what else do we have that ties them to radical islamism? >> people are trying to see if there is a link between them and radical terrorism. we have sources at rueters today that the fbi is looking into links between farook and some other people that the fbi had under investigation and some of those possibly were overseas people. beyond that nobody made a definitive link yet. >> how do we put together the combination of a mother with a 6 month old baby saying i am going off to see the doctor and heading off with her husband with this incredible firepower and explosives planning a major assault on humanity and trying
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to escape back to the house and going from there back to the original crime scene. everybody around my office has said mothers do not leave their kids forever for anything less than religion. >> yeah. i think a lot of the pieces of the puzzle point to radicalization of some kind. you have to put it in the context of the environment that we are in. the greatest fear for intelligence folks that is the lone wolves will radicalize themselves and they will go off and commit attacks on their own. there are also pieces of the puzzle that don't quite fit. and that is what is hanging up law enforcement right now. his ties to supposed radicals are not strong. not strong enough to put them on
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their radar. the sequence of events. going to the party, leaving abruptly and coming back raises questions about the intent here. >> anyway, the brother-in-law of one of the suspects came forward last night and apologized for the loss of life. he had no real answer as to why the atrocity was committed. here he is. >> i cannot express how sad i am for what happened today. my condolences to the people that lost their life. i am very sad that people lost their life. there are victims out there. i wish a speedy recovery to them. i am in shocked that something like this could happen. why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea. i am in shock myself. >> how do you allow your brother-in-law, a pretty close
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relative, to have this incredible army of explosive material and guns and ammunition. hundreds of thousands of rounds all at the same time you are expressing the views of radical islam and not know it is happening? not knowing someone close to you is involved in such a life? >> the family seems to be fractured and some of the pieces of the puzzle are really coming together. you know that brother-in-law and his wife live in a pretty quiet neighborhood. i was outside of their home today. they have two american flags posted in the front yard. the other brother in the family also lives in another questiiet neighborhood and he served in the military. there are elements where it seems like the rest of the family was not aware of what was going on. they were going about their
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lives as americans. >> yeah. absolutely. not only the neighbors who live next door to the brother. they would see syed rizwan farook visit the house two or three times a week. every sunday at 4:00 with his brother and his father and seemed like a perfectly normal guy according to the north carolina -- neighbors. we have spoke to worshipers at a mosque where farook worshipped. he was a devout muslim and was becoming more devout. he would appear two or three times a week on his lunch break to pray. everyone at the mosque is shocked that he went and did this. he was quiet and wanted to be a good muslim. why he would go and do this is a great mystery. a lot of planning went into this
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attack. 12 pipe bombs were found at the house. 4,500 rounds of ammunition, two assault rifles, two handguns. the other weird thing is just a few months ago his wife, the other shooter, bought baby gear at target on the baby registry. they looked like a normal couple. >> thank you for that. our coverage of the terror in san bernardino will continue after this. even during the holidays, you get used to smelly odors
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to make energy go further... matter how many tries it takes. energy lives here. well week, all looking forward to a press conference from the police out there and the fbi in the next hour. it's scheduled to begin around 8:30 eastern time. msnbc will bring you that live when it happens. "hardball" back after this. looks like some folks have had it with their airline credit card miles. sometimes those seats cost a ridiculous number of miles... or there's a fee to use them. i know. it's so frustrating. they'd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. and you would, too! why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles
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find out right now about this horror? >> reporter: well, first of all, chris, there are hundreds of investigators who are on this case. police, experts. of course one of the crime scenes right behind me. the other where those two suspects were killed. but i think the real focus here, a lot of attention, particularly by the fbi, is in that home in redlands. it's not clear whether or not the family actually lived there, whether this couple lived there with their child, but their names apparently were on the rental lease. and investigators have been bringing out tons of stuff. we already know from what they've told us, 2,500 rounds of ammunition from assault rifles. another 2,000 for pistols. but a couple of interesting things. one, the kind of stuff that's coming out of there indicating that it was a virtual bomb-making factory. that's how it's been described as people who are are expert in this have been watching things coming out. the other thing, and this is critical in all investigations like this. computers and cell phones. who were they in touch with?
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how did they get this stuff? how did they learn, for example, how to potentially make these bombs? so those are the things that are going to be sent back to the fbi labs in washington, d.c., that are going to be fast-tracked. nobody has more expertise in this than these very highly trained specialists in the fbi. and they'll be looking at that. they already know that the guns that were used in this were legally obtained, but what a lot of people are questioning is with an assault weapons ban how did they -- how were they able to kill so many people using one of the weapons, which is an ar-15, same thing james holmes used in aurora. well, they're not only easy to get but if you look at the advertisements for them, chris, they say they are also, and i'm quoting here, easy to use. you don't have to go to pakistan, syria, iraq and get training for this. >> thank you, chris jansing in san bernardino. when we return, let me finish with donald trump's suggestion that president obama is behaving defensively regarding islamic
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terrorism. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. discover card hey! so i'm looking at my bill and my fico credit score's on here. yeah! we give you your fico credit score. for free! awesomesauce! the only person i know that says that is... lisa? julie? we've already given more than 175 million free fico credit scores to our cardmembers. apply today at
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let me finish tonight with donald trump's suggestion that president obama is behaving defensively regarding islamist terrorism, that as trump put it today there's something wrong with him that we don't know about, there's something wrong with him that we don't know about. here we go again back into that indictment trump has been nursing for years that the president somehow got to where he is, the white house as part
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of a deep and dark conspiracy, one that brought him secretly to this country from overseas, that got him credit for graduating from various schools up to and including harvard law school even though no one, trump assures us, at any of those schools can remember obama. this is trump's trump card. it's his ethnic taunt to the worst of the obama haters. his willingness to argue that the president's not really one of us, that he is on the contrary a mysterious interloper who snuck into our country, assumed an identity that wasn't his, and smuggled himself all the way to the american presidency, never once being the person he claims to be. well, this is the original trump sin back again. this is the trumped-up libel, that our front-running candidate is willing to sell whenever he finds an audience, as he did today, willing to swallow it, if only because they hate obama personally. hate his progressive politics. hate most of all his open, tolerant world view. i have from the beginning seen trump as a mixed bag, but this birtherism which he resumed today is the bad he carries with
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him, refuses to dump and is so willing to sell. and for those who applauded him today, cheered at his insinuation the president hides himself as a defender of islamist terrorism, i can only say this. you should be ashamed. none of us should applaud this 21st century mccarthyism, this cheap insinuation against a fellow american backed up by nothing but hate. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from san bernardino, california. i'm chris hayes. and tonight a city in mourning for the 14 people killed here yesterday. at the center for the developmentally disabled. the deadliest mass shooting in this country since the massacre at sandy hook elementary school three years ago. the county coroner has now identified each of the 14 victims. michael wetzel, 37. damian means, 58. nicholas thalasinos 52. l. daniel kaufman 42. sierra


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