tv Andrea Mitchell Reports MSNBC December 4, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PST
>> police have released pictures of the killers' weapons. lester holt explores what now looks like terror with syed farook's brother-in-law. >> was he a very political person? >> no. not at all. >> strongly religious person? >> he was a good religious person, yes, just like normal anybody would be. but nothing, nothing that i can see that he could do that. >> nothing that would fit the term radicalized as we have heard? >> no. not that i can comment on. not the person i know. >> and good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington with this mystery. we are following the breaking news, the first information connecting the california shootout to a possible terror attack. law enforcement officials tell nbc news syed farook's wife posted her allegiance to isis founder abu bakr al baghdadi before the attack on the regional center in san bernardino that left 14 people
did, 21 injured. if true, this would be the first isis inspired attack that we know of in the united states. joining me now is nbc justice correspondent pete williams and nbc's kerry sanders live outside of the suspects' home in redlands, california. pete, first to you. significant link here. we don't know, though, whether this is isis inspired, isis ordered, but tell us what the law enforcement officials now know about her posting. >> reporter: it would certainly be the first successful isis inspired attack. as you know, there have been other attempted attacks here including the attempted attack on the meeting in garland, texas. but what law enforcement officials tell us is just before theshootings in san bernardino, tashfeen malik used her cell phone to send a facebook page she was running as an alias a private message. for those people not familiar with facebook, you can use facebook either to post something that everyone can see,
all your followers can see, or you can send this private message that nobody can see except the person to whom you are sending it. if you send it to yourself, only you yourself would see it. she sent a statement of support pledged allegiance in essence to abu bakr al baghdadi, the leader of isis. we are told this message was then taken down a short time either before or after the shootings. that would be consistent with the moves made by the attackers to destroy their electronic trail, to erase computer hard drives, to damage their cell phones, to try to frustrate the fbi from knowing, apparently knowing they would do this, is to follow their electronic footprints and look back. so as you point out, it's a statement of support. it isn't clear at all that this was intended to be seen by anyone else or even that isis was ever aware of this. it's at the same time no evidence officials say that this was an isis directed attack.
this has been for the last year and a half the biggest fear for the fbi, the justice department, department of homeland security. people in the united states who consume isis propaganda and then acting on their own without telling anyone else decide to carry out an attack. now, a further question about tashfeen malik, she came to the united states just a year ago. she is from pakistan. he met her in saudi arabia. the big question here is, did she come with a predisposition, was she in essence a radical before she ever got here? was she a plant, all those are logical questions the fbi is now running down. they are working with authorities in pakistan to question her family, her reli relativ relatives, people who knew her, to reconstruct her past. >> it would be so unusual, it's already unusual to have a husband and wife team, if this does prove to be terror, because women, we know in chechnyia, the
black widows who mourn their husbands and have been terrorists. it's a very unusual role for a muslim woman even though there are isis women often they are women who have been captive. i want to also ask you about the bomb making factory. we now have some pictures. take us through what we know about these pipe bombs and the pictures that the police released. >> reporter: well, this was dozens of bombs were made in the garage of this house in redlands where the farooks lived. this is the device left in the inland center on wednesday that didn't go off, the remote control device. this is a bag of pipe bombs there. what we are told is authorities have found three other remote control devices in that house in redlands and of course, it raises the question, all these bombs, all the rounds, the thousands and thousands of rounds of ammunition they had,
what else were they planning? surely it wasn't just one thing. were they going to start with their attack on their co-workers, on syed farook's co-workers in san bernardino and go on from there that very day? were they planning other attacks in the future? did they think they could get out of there without being detected? i think they don't know but that's a very crucial part of the investigation right now and were others involved. no sign at this point, they tell us, that anyone else knew what they were up to. >> and we also had an interview with nicholas thalasinos' wife jennifer. her husband was killed in the attack. she talked about his interactions with syed farook. >> he knew syed. he had worked with him. he never had anything bad to say about him but i'm wondering if maybe they did get into an argument because my husband was very outspoken.
he believed in the jewish tradition and i feel that my husband was basically martyred and i'm sure that he went down fighting and protecting people. >> that suggestion that because her husband was a religious jew and they had had conversations and some arguments on religion, it doesn't fit with the rest of what other people are saying about syed but we know so little about this couple and about the wife. she wasn't seen. people in the mosque had never seen her because she had always been fully covered with the veil. >> what we learned today, at least tashfeen malik had facebook knowledge and was conversant with it. the husband of the wife you just spoke to had outspoken things to say about islam. i think they're a long way from knowing why they decided to attack their co-workers, why he
decided to attack his co-workers and she came along with him. there is a possibility and they are looking into whether anybody who had made any remarks against islam were a reason for the attack. >> do you think the fbi is getting closer to concluding, because of the facebook posting, that this would be categorized as a terror attack? >> yes. i think they are getting closer to that. this certainly is a very significant development. it shows that she at least was very interested in isis. we have to find out whether they are finding similar evidence about him, but yes, she's an equal partner in this so definitely it does. >> it could turn out that she is the radicalizer, that it was she whom he met online who brought him into this. we don't know. that has to be one of the things they would pursue. >> well, i think you have to ask yourself is it really realistic to think the two of them were on a parallel trajectory here, or
was one ahead of the other. if so, what's the big change in his life? and a big change in his life was getting married, meeting this woman online, meeting her on a dating site, finally meeting her face-to-face in saudi arabia and bringing her back a year ago. so the question is, did she come here already predisposed with these radical views, or did she develop them once she got into the u.s. but yes, it's certainly possible -- it would appear logical that one radicalized the other or they got started and sort of racheted each other up but you would think logically somebody took the first step. >> pete williams. i know you will come back with more as we pursue all of these leads. thank you so much for starting us off. kerry sanders in redlands, california, outside the home. you have been talking to neighbors and to the landlord. >> reporter: indeed i have been. in fact, if you look over my shoulder you can see a large crowd. as we cut to the other picture,
the owner of the apartment had his apartment here released to him by the fbi and he's currently at the front door, where it was sealed up with wood and he's got some crow bars and is attempting to go inside. now, i have spoken to him about allowing nbc news cameras inside. he said yes, he said he did make an agreement with "inside edition" television show that paid him a sum of money to allow him in. i said can we come in after. it may be just in a matter of moments once he gets the door open we can go inside. we do know the fbi while they were inside here removed certain items so what we will see perhaps are things about their life. i did get a chance to speak with doyle miller, before he went up there with the crow bar. this is what he had to say. when you hear this story and you know what they are accused of doing, does it match up? >> no. >> reporter: because? >> it just didn't make sense. they didn't seem like that type. >> reporter: so we are back out here live.
as you can imagine, the fbi and their team sealed this up rather well. for doyle miller to get inside may take some time. but we will stay here, maybe within the next half hour that we get inside that we can sort of get a look at the life that they lived inside. i asked him because there were some questions of whether farook and his wife, whether they lived here or whether this was a second unit they owned and was strictly a bomb making factory. he said they lived here, they lived here with their 6 month old daughter that they were constantly paying on time, but he rarely came inside to see what was going on inside. they would bring him the checks. he said they were relatively private people and that they lived a somewhat quiet life. he didn't really know much about them other than that they were up to snuff on their payments. as we wait to go inside, it will be interesting to see if we see anything on the walls or anything in the house that
reveals a little bit more as to the life they lived and what they did secretly behind closed doors. >> kerry, as we watch them trying to get those nails out and undo the job that the fbi did of shuttering that house, first i want to make the point that obviously, we don't pay for interviews so you were talking about another program that had paid for another interview and getting inside. you were trying to gain access on your own afterwards. >> reporter: yes. i asked, i said look, nbc's not going to pay to come in. i would just like to ask you after this other television program which paid him $1,000, he said, to go inside, can we follow. he said yes. he says he's got no reason to hide anything. when i hopefully, it will be the second camera walking in. we will go straight in and see what we see. understand that some people may wonder about while the fbi was here, there was bomb making material, is there anything that's a threat. the fbi said they went through here along with the atf as well
as the local police. there were no boobytraps. they went through. they spent a tremendous amount of time going top to bottom removing anything that is first of all, evidence and second of all, anything that could be dangerous. that's why they have released it to the owner. so i think there's just an intense curiosity if we will see anything in there and what we see in there might reveal something or may not. >> in fact, we saw while you were on with us yesterday the white pickup truck with the fbi bringing evidence out. they obviously were sending pete williams had said one or two planes a day back to washington to the labs outside of d.c. to go through the computers, the hard drives, all of their devices even though they had smashed a number of their devices to try to retrieve what they could. and exploit whatever they can from their social media. while we continue to watch that, i know you are standing by ready to jump in with mr. miller, joining me by phone is malcolm nance, executive director of the terror asymmetrics project,
career counterterrorism and intelligence officer. thank you very much for being with us. we have been talking about how unusual it is that this muslim woman, woman from pakistan meeting her husband online, then getting married at the grand mosque in mecca, would be participating as an active partner, maybe even the instigator of what is increasingly looking like a terror attack. >> well, it is unusual. and i believe that this morning, the head of the -- former head of the cia counterterrorism center mentioned [ inaudible ] but in my experience, when i was in iraq, we had husband and wife suicide bomber teams, including westerners from europe who had joined their husbands and carried out these acts. that was al qaeda in iraq which is now called isis. so it's quite possible that as a radicalized person, she may have
been more excited at the prospect of dying in an attack or participating in an attack. she certainly was a shooter, rear gunner, so to speak, when the police tried to bring down the vehicle. she was very well trained by her husband or by herself and she wanted to really take part in this attack as a very active participant. >> how unusual is it if she's that religious, we know from stephanie gosk's reporting at the mosque that she did not attend the mosque. >> it depends how religious her husband was in that respect. >> he went several times a week, according to -- >> right. >> he was a very active participant. by the way, the door is -- not the door, the plywood. camera crews are just now going into that apartment. there's a lot going on as we are speaking. kerry sanders is there and will be going in with the others, i think.
malcolm, i'm sorry. i interrupted you. she doesn't seem to have been a participant with the mosque, the neighborhood didn't know her. the landlord said they did bring their rent checks and they seemed to be a normal couple. >> that's not unusual in extreme orthodox muslim families. isis, people who are radicalized to this apocalyptic cult version of islam, take this to an order of magnitude way further than [ inaudible ] in saudi arabia could. they isolate women 100%. they cover them 100%. it's not unusual but people never have met her, never have seen her outside of the home. in saudi arabia, that was the norm. it's quite possible that maybe too much freedom here in the west was something she just couldn't handle and de not want to allow her.
>> kerry sanders still there. the plywood has been pulled off. this is a bit of a media show, to say the least. kerry, bring us up to date on what your expectation is. >> reporter: well, we are about to walk inside becauses they have got the door open and in fact, we can even see with a little bit of light just inside the door here. not sure if we are going to be able to walk in yet or what the plan is here. let's see if we can step in. >> so you are in that scrum, i guess. >> reporter: okay. i think we will wait a minute. you can see there's a crush of cameras here, there are people holding up cell phones taking' snapshots. there you see -- that's the one reporter there who as i reported was given access by paying $1,000. he represents "inside edition" a television program which is syndicated. here we go in. as we step in, we will see what it looks like. unfortunately, there appears to be a little bit of a pushing and
shoving which i'm not sure we need to do. as we step inside we will take a look and see what we have inside this home. okay, andrea? >> so this is their ground floor apartment. was there a separate garage -- >> reporter: here we go. yeah. the garage is around back. it's a two-car garage. the door was locked this morning, the fbi had removed all of the yellow tape out there. i'm surprised we had to come through the front door, didn't just use the clicker to go in. we are going in as they would walk into the door. and okay. here we go. bill, come back here. come back this way. come back this way. so what we're going to do is, bill's going to come with me and we are going to -- >> talk our way through here. >> reporter: there's another direction. >> good deal. >> reporter: okay. thank you. so we're walking up stairs here which i am told is a two-bedroom
apartment. let's just take a look. okay. here we come around the corner and this appears to be the baby's room right here. you can see we have, this is where the 6 month was -- 6 month old child, and here's a computer. i don't actually see a whole lot of dust in here but as you can see, the hard drive is gone. this is where it would be plugged in. we can see some of the other items here. i can kill the light? let me turn the light off. there we go. but i don't see anything really on the wall. i want to take a look at the calendar, see if anything's marked on the calendar. i don't see anything. that's november. let's go over here to december. see if anything of importance was marked on the calendar here. nothing there. it's just a typical sort of calendar with pictures. as i turn around here i think i found something interesting. as we look at the floor here, this is a prayer rug.
so this prayer rug here may have been, i'm not sure which way but you would face it towards mecca. it's possible that that prayer rug has been left exactly in the position where it was. >> what kind of computer equipment, kerry? >> reporter: wait a second. yes. let me take you over here. this is interesting. look in this bin. here you can see all types of things have been shredded. so the fbi must have decided that whatever was in here was not important because even when documents are shredded, they can be very painstakingly put back together. so let's go to another room. we will pass some of the reporters. >> kerry, i was wondering what kind of computer equipment, before you leave the baby's room there. >> reporter: okay. that's not a bad question. let's see. so we have an lg monitor. we have a check here from chase
to syed farook for $7.98. the computer itself is gone. that's what the fbi must have taken out of here. there's a little bit of a speaker here. over here is one of these sort of all-in-one printers and scanners and we have some keyboards. here's the first year's quick serve. you know, one of the things people have been talking about through all of this is how odd it is that this has been a case of a parent, two parents with a 6 month old and yet they would do this. i actually wanted to see what we can find in the other rooms as we take a look around here. here's some mixed nuts with peanuts. we will stop one more moment here and take a look. >> of course, the crib, the baby's crib is the most poignant thing of all. >> reporter: it is. not only that, come over here,
you can see the baby's toys. we have really quite a number of toys. there's a teddy bear here. there's a box here. it looks like it may have been even an unwrapped gift, dream eyes, bright dream eyes. bright eyes dreamy. quite a number of items. all the things you would expect to find in a child's room. not the sort of things you would expect to find from parents who would be so willingly able to drop their 6 month old off and then leave her and go on a mission of such horror. let's go into the other room and again, we have a fair amount of cameramen here. maybe we will wait for a moment and take a look over here in the closet just to see what we see in the closet. >> there is something so strange about all of this. obviously this is all unfolding
live. we had no expectation they were going to open up the house at this moment. >> reporter: no. okay. here we go. this is the upper elementary workbook level two. arabic reader. now, i'm not sure, but i would suspect that this may actually have been even though it's in here amongst the toys, because of only being 6 month old, it could either be a gift or maybe something that farook himself used, because he was born in the united states, he was raised in the united states, and while he had memorized the koran, of course knowing arabic is important. here we have good night stories from the koran, a book they may have read to their 6 month old. >> kerry, when you can get into the other rooms, you have not
seen any pictures of this family? because we have yet to see a picture of -- >> reporter: i'm curious to see if we see some of that myself. let's slip past some of the crews here. thank you very much. let me just slip past you here. thank you so much. okay. okay. we are going to come into this room in here. first of all, in the bathroom, oh, look what we found here. let's come over here, sir, if we may. okay. i think what i would do is rather than touch it, this gentleman is taking pictures. we will let him take those. okay. may we take a look? thank you so much. >> i just want to make the point here -- >> reporter: i'm going to -- >> go ahead. are those the first pictures -- >> reporter: so i'm going to guess that these are the photographs of malik. so this is the first -- this may be -- okay.
we have quite a number of photographs here. but we don't know. we don't know if it's her. this is just, these are photographs here the family has. >> kerry, we should just point out that mr. miller, the owner, has permitted this press tour of the family. the fbi has already cleared all of their useful evidence out and presumably, the fbi has taken anything they -- >> reporter: he has given us permission to come in and also to touch this stuff. it's not as if i'm touching things i shouldn't be touching. >> can you hold that picture up? can you get a tight shot of some of those other pictures? >> reporter: if the control room can fix my ifb just for a moment. okay. >> again, we did not know but -- >> reporter: there's really quite a number of items here. >> kerry, as you go through some of these pictures, we would have to still try to identify who this woman is but we have not yet seen a picture, no one has
seen a picture of syed farook's wife. >> reporter: right. we don't have a picture that basically has them together that would not necessarily tell us anything, but might suggest something. let's see what else we have here. >> you might check to see if anyone is wroitten on the back f those pictures, any dates. >> reporter: this one was taken in january of '96 here. looks like it may have been some sort of birthday party here. remember, this is a family that in both cases, they are originally with roots in pakistan. so these may be photographs from a gathering in pakistan. let's just have you pull back a little bit. there we go. let's just hold these out.
yeah. this is clearly a birthday party that was taking place with a cake and the smiles and it looks like somebody's ninth birthday party there. >> let's make sure we don't see the children. let's not show the child, kerry. let's cut away from that. >> reporter: we can see this is probably not her because it says saren on the back there. i'm sorry, this is sort of unfolding live as we are doing this. i'm not sure what the next picture's going to be until i pull them open. >> i understand. >> reporter: so again, here's pictures of children. okay. there we go. all right. we've got quite a number of pictures of children here. again -- >> i think we should -- >> reporter: we are going to step away from the pictures for a moment. >> let's see the next room. >> reporter: okay. we are going to go to the next room and see what we see.
we have to step back a little bit because there's a crowd that wants to step in as you come out. we are going to go into the room over here. we are coming over here to what may have been the main bedroom. kind of overwhelming here with the number of crews that are here. we have a bedroom here and spread out appears to be credit cards and i.d.s. here's an i.d. here we go. so california i.d. let me just look at it first. okay. rifa satana farook. i will step away here. i take it we don't want to see the pictures. why don't i just sort of look at some of this and reveal we have things like social security cards from rifa farook. we have a revenue support clerk business services from kaiser
permanente. we have a california driver's license. >> basically health care cards, driver's licenses? >> reporter: yeah. two books that appear to be the koran. let me lean over and see. okay. >> as you continue to look through what you are seeing on that tour, we want to cut away for a few moments and remind our viewers that we are watching the first media tour and it is quite extraordinary, the landlord has permitted the media enmasse to enter the apartment of this couple, the couple now linked for the first time to a possible terror attack because of the facebook posting of the wife just before the attack, swearing her allegiance to isis. joining me on the phone is senator lindsey graham of the
armed services committee. senator graham, we are trying to absorb this mystery as this investigation unfolds. we see the first evidence at least of a possible link to isis in this attack. this horrendous attack this week in california. your reaction to this? >> number one, i'm astonished they are letting people go through the apartment. i have never seen anything like that. >> neither have i. >> i have been a prosecutor and defense attorney most of my life. the bottom line is clear that these people are motivated by something other than workplace grievance. they gave their 6 month old child up so they are committed to a cause that is so bizarre that they would abandon their own child. here's what i worry about. for about a year now, people have been telling me about one way to penetrate america is to do arranged marriages. you find somebody in the u.s.
you can convert and take a terrorist sympathizer and basically an al qaeda/isil arranged marriage and this may be one of the first ones we've seen. >> is this a reason to start taking another look at those k-1 fiance visas which is one way people -- clearly it's the way she got in. >> i never said it to anybody before, but when you look at the routes into the country, this is a route that we have been concerned about, could you radicalize someone in the country and use, you know, an arranged marriage to bring somebody else in. well, they have been worried about that. whether this is that situation or not, it sure bears looking at. >> have you all been briefed at all about these connections, their roots in pakistan, her being pakistani, the marriage supposedly in saudi arabia, has
anybody briefed the hill on this? >> not to me. but i have been concerned about this problem for quite awhile. people who are looking -- okay, put yourself into the mindset of the enemy, how can you get into the country. the answer is not to shut off all visas and fortress america. the answer is to go on ground in syria and destroy the caliphate sooner rather than later because that's the main problem. these people are seen as winning throughout the whole world and we've got to bring them down and take them to their knees if this continues. >> you were among the speakers, all the republicans speaking to the republican jewish coalition yesterday and were you at all concerned about first of all, donald trump, ben carson, about the level of sophistication about the middle east of some of the leading republican contenders here? what does it say about the party this year? >> it says that experience
doesn't matter. dr. carson's a fine man but he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. donald trump is doing damage to our foreign policy. i just got back from iraq. when he suggests that we are going to follow people around in the country based on their religion because they're muslims, we are going to monitor mosques without a warrant, you are playing into the enemy's hands. when you talk about killing women and children, family members, you are actually empowering the enemy. that's what i got from my visit. donald trump doesn't have a strategy to destroy isil. he doesn't even understand the nature of the problem. the problem is radical islam and the way you win the war is get people in the faith on your side. they have been the biggest victims of isil. his gibberish is hurting us, actually. >> well, senator, thank you very much for being with us. this is an extraordinary moment watching this live unfolding of a media tour of the house.
as you pointed out, you were a j.a.g. officer. i don't understand why after the fbi search, why this wasn't shut out. >> beyond bizarre but so is the world. good news, we can destroy isil. we just need a new strategy. the region is ready to do it. they just need our help. i came back believing more than ever that people are ready to take isil on. we just need american leadership to get us there. >> thank you very much. as always, senator. ayman mohyeldin is joining us as well as pete williams while this media tour continues we have seen the last 20 minutes or so. ayman, the strange thing here to a lot of us is the mother. the mother giving up her 6 month old child and going into this suicidal mission and pledging allegiance to isis. you just heard senator graham saying that he has been concerned about these arranged marriages. >> yeah. i think the investigation is
definitely going to hone in on her for many different reasons. for starters, we don't know as much about her as we have learned already about the male suspect or the male attacker, if you will. her piece of the puzzle is actually very interesting for a few reasons. obviously the background she's coming from, her travels, her associations and certainly she has kept a much lower social media or online profile, if you will, than her husband, who was much easier for most of the journalists and fbi to track down. in case of tashfeen, she has been at least with this isis pledge, it is very murky and it's important to emphasize, this is a point that has been brought up continuously throughout the coverage, isis pledges take on many different forms. we have seen it from the most organizational level to the individual level. so unless we can see what that pledge says, in terms of whether or not it sheds light to an operational link, whether or not she was just expressing this
allegiance but there was nobody on the receiving end that was seeking it, that was going to use it for propaganda purposes, a lot of questions are still unanswered about both the pledge and about her own personal background. i think it will be very interesting to see in the coming weeks whether or not in this investigation they can pinpoint the exact relationship between these two individuals and whether or not that visa was exploited particularly for the cause of carrying this attack out, or did the radicalization or the association between them or the planning between them happen after they met each other. that's going to be a central part i think of determining the motivations behind this attack. if for example this was an individual who identified an american individual and they partnered up to carry out this attack and exploited this visa system to try and bring her into the united states, that's going to be a major cause of alarm. if the other scenario which they met individually and ultimately
brought here for the genuine intention of living, starting a family here and then becoming radicalized, again, that's going to be very revealing and very telling. a lot of questions certainly surrounding her identity. one of the things that struck out at me just looking at some of those images as kerry sanders walked through that apartment is this is an individual who according to, from our own reporting, stephanie gosk, who met people at the mosque where he frequented in california, she was a veiled woman. she covered her face, she was a very conservative woman. it kind of struck me to see that there would be pictures of her without wearing the veil in some of those social settings. i think it's safe to say some of those pictures just by looking at it and putting these pieces together, might not have been her. >> exactly. >> it's very early to draw and certainly we can learn more about her identity, but for me, i find it striking immediately that she would have even had any of those types of pictures. again, according, when you
juxtapose that according to the eyewitnesses that we have been interviewing in california, at the mosque, who actually had met her, described her wearing a full face veil which is a very conservative, even by most muslim standards, a very conservative way of dressing that you would then turn around and see she has pictures of her without wearing a veil and being very social in some of those pictures. my suggestion is probably not her in those pictures. >> very good point. chuck todd is here with me now. we have been talking about this extraordinary story unfolding and you have a mother giving up her child, clearly now there is a terror link. pete williams telling us earlier we think the fbi is going to declare this a terror incident according to their definition of it, and in the midst of a political campaign where anti-muslim rhetoric has reached a pitch that i have never heard in this country, not even after 9/11, this is a very concerning
time. >> it is. and the more we learn about this, i think the more they are going to be plenty of americans who maybe don't have a lot of interactions with muslim americans who are going to feel fear. it's an important time for political leaders to step up and sort of this is going to be, to me this is going to be a test, a test of presidential candidates, of this president, of leaders in congress, because there will be a lot of fear and anxiety. there is a lot of fear and anxiety in america. some of this fear may be justified but the point is they need to address this. don't allow vacuums. i think this will be a real test for american political leadership, both the current one and those that are hoping to be one. >> pete williams was making the point earlier that the fear that james comey and others have been expressing, the fbi director, jeh johnson from homeland security, has been inspiration, lone wolves, of the direction from isis now as they found more
travel restrictions and better screening to the united states, do it in your homes, attack in your communities, and these are the lone wolves, these are the isis inspired terrorists that we have fortunately not been victim of yet. if this is what we are now facing in america, this very well be could be the first instance of a successful isis attack in america. sleeper cells. >> that's what this feels like. who radicalized who here? it's sort of like he had one direction in his life, then he met this woman online, goes over there and then he went into another direction in his life. sean henry, who has been very helpful to us, former assist an director of the fbi, said what's the biggest -- what's the oddest, what's the anomaly here. that's what you investigate the most. in this case, how many mothers give up their child, a 6 month
old like this, willing to do that in order to commit the mayhem they committed. that's the oddity here. so he had said this i think yesterday, said that's where you focus this investigation. that's almost like maybe the biggest lead because that's the oddest thing you ever see, a mother being willing to give up their 6 month old that way. abandoning their 6 month old. she may be the link. sure enough, the more we are learning, she appears to be the link. look, this is going to call into question our visa program. she obviously got over here on essentially a fiance visa. >> lindsey graham -- >> this is going to -- that's where you are going to see some of this public policy debate go. we already know the visa program was one that was the most vulnerable as far as security is concerned in this country. congress rushed on the refugee thing when a bipartisan group of members were saying no, no, no, no, focus on the visa program. >> that was the visa waiver program.
>> at the eu, essentially. >> this was not the fiance visa. >> this is a different level of visa, exactly. >> this visa program is something lindsey graham was just saying he has wanted to talk about because of the possibility of arranged marriages where you take an isis sympathizer or previously al qaeda and train them to go online to attract, seduce, if you will, an online american, then come in on that visa program where a fiancee can arrive in the united states. >> you can't dismiss any of this as the possibility at this point. they have been -- their ability with propaganda online, their ability with propaganda in general, you just saw this, there's a report that got buried this week for obvious reasons that essentially a bunch of outside experts of the state department came in to analyze how their anti-isis efforts on social media -- >> it was a very significant report. >> basically saying you guys can't do this. the american government can't be behind this. it has zero credibility.
meantime, they are winning this propaganda war online with many muslims around the world. some of whom are getting radicalized due to this propaganda thing that's going on. i think that this now, why should you dismiss the possibility of what's being -- of what senator graham is fearful of here? >> and joining us now is "washington post" editorial columnist david ignatius. following up on chuck's point, i have seen under secretary of state condi rice, colin powell, hillary clinton, and now john kerry, the failure to go up against al qaeda and now isis propaganda machines. should we just get out of the business and disarm ourselves? should we contract it out to the silicon valley experts? >> the judgment that people are making this week that the u.s. is not a credible source of counter-isis messaging,
messaging to muslims, is a wise decision. the muslim world is in many ways allergic to the united states. there's a whole range of questions about what the u.s. should do without fingerprints which would be done through our intelligence agencies but that gets you into snowden territory. this week was a remarkable discussion with a young technologist named jared cohen who used to work at the state department, who was talking about a digital counter insurgency strategy in which as in physical counter insurgency you try to separate the insurgents, the isis people in this case, from the people they are trying to recruit by taking away their digital space. he said this could be done largely by the private sector for its own reasons to have well moderated discussions without violent messaging. that was a fascinating idea. i'm sure that will be pursued.
i think what's fascinating about this to me is looking at the ways in which it's clear isis could have set up its own version of a dating service. if you look at messaging online as i do, you see that appeals to women have been a constant part of what isis is putting out as it tries to bring people to the state, to the caliphate. it urges women to come. women mess age each other about what conditions are like. there's discussions about arranged marriages, appropriate ways to do that. it's a whole new frontier for us to think about carefully. >> in fact, we saw that they had gone online and they had registered with target for their baby gifts or baby supplies. they were following an american model in terms of how they were planning for this child. david, what is the solution? because we are in the middle of a political debate. chuck todd and i were just discussing the anti-muslim rhetoric from at least two of
the candidates, republican candidates, has created a climate that can now be -- that can really now feed what is legitimate fear on many people's part at watching what happened in san bernardino and now if it is proved as pete williams suggested it likely now will be, the fbi will call this a terror attack. >> people need to understand that the percentage of young muslims who are really attracted by, motivated by this kind of isis recruiting is tiny. you only need a very small percentage to have a number of operatives who can do enormous damage. but it would be a disastrous mistake if americans, if leading political candidates, stoke the flames of anti-muslim sentiment in ways that made our muslim communities feel that they were under threat and made recruitment by isis and other
groups even more possible. again, the numbers when you look carefully are so small, they are dangerous, they have to be very closely watched, but the idea that every mosque is a harbor for terrorist recruitment, i don't think is true. >> chuck todd, where do we go politically? the president has been accused of not being tough enough, after voiding the phrase islamic terrorism. he following what george w. bush did trying to avoid the kind of broad brush demonization of muslims which will only fuel more people to become potentially radicalized. hillary clinton has said yes, it was a terror attack but we also have to do other things. we have to do gun laws which three amendments lost on the senate floor yesterday, including what some people thought were reasonable changes, background checks for people on the terror list. if you are on the no-fly list you should not be able to buy a gun. >> it starts with look, the
president needs to fill this vacuum. the candidates will fill it and political campaigns by their nature can go rhetorically overboard. even those with the best of intentions can get over their skis. the president needs to fill this vacuum. he has to be the one to channel the anxiety and the fear that's out there, explain it. be equally tough and compassionate to the muslim american community but be tough about isis and look, it is -- if he doesn't do it, there's a vacuum and it may get filled in ways that some people may not like. so look, i think it's important that whoever the president is at the time is the one that needs to fill this vacuum. this is i think the test for president obama here. again, i go back to what the country is feeling. you see this. the fact that you don't want to sit here and connect dots but
the fact they broke the record of background checks in a single day on black friday for gun ownership, that is yet another sign there is an anxiety among some americans, an insecurity among some americans, a nervousness among some americans. those of us that are parents have kids that are asking us a lot about what happened in paris and what happened here. they are of age that they are watching this stuff. again, i think that that's, if you would ask me what's missing here, i think that that's what's missing. i think that that's what if the president is concerned about the rhetoric that's happening on the campaign trail, don't lecture it. don't turn it into a political debate. fill it. >> gabe gutierrez is outside the hospital there where you still have injured victims of this attack. what are people out there saying about the climate of fear that some are certainly sensing around the country? that community in san bernardino
has come together with we saw prayers and a very moving vigil all over the community last night. >> reporter: exactly right. last night, a very moving prayer vigil here in san bernardino. we are actually outside loma linda hospital where there are several patients still being treated, four patients being treated right now. two in critical condition, two others in stable, fair condition. right now, 21 people were wounded, ten of them are still hospitalized. we are learning more about those victims and this community is slowly coming to terms with that as we look at some pictures here of that -- of the apartment of the suspects that you guys have been talking about. but several of these stories of the victims are really devastating this community. among them, tlep-year-old michael wetzel, a father of six. let that sink in. a father of six. he was a county health inspector. his wife posted a statement online saying that he loved his work and his family so very
much. without him, this family will never be the same. then another victim we have been talking about quite a bit is larry daniel kaufman. he ran the coffee shop in building three at the inland regional center. here's a picture of daniel at the renaissance fair where he had worked for 16 years. his family says he was a good person that we all loved. then there was another victim, bennetta bet-badal, 46 years old. she had an incredible story. she moved here from iran when she was just 18 years old to escape islamic extremism. she moved to new york and then to california where she met her husband and he worked as a police officer for the local community college there. she was a mother of three. her children, ages 10, 12 and 15, she was also an inspector with the health department since 2006. according to the gofundme page set up by her family, she loved her job, her country, her
greatest love however was for her husband. her children and her large extended family. then there was 40-year-old robert adams. he married his high school sweetheart and had a 20 month old daughter. her name was savannah. perhaps one of the most heartbreaking details of all this, the family was planning to take savannah on her first trip to disneyland next week. instead they are planning her dad's funeral. >> you referenced michael wetzel. i think we have some pictures of him at church, just a week or so ago. why don't we play that. >> for those of you that don't know me, i'm missing our better half. she's home with one of our kids this morning. i'm mike. this is carli here. katie, kylie and andrew. and ali, of course. >> that's just heartbreaking. michael wetzel and his children at church last weekend. >> reporter: yeah, heartbreaking
to see that. 37 years old. he was a father of six. when you think about the people that lost their lives, they range in age from 26 to 60 years old. again, a few of the wounded are still recovering today. when we think of all these lives lost, this community is just devastated. even as we learn more about this investigation. >> gabe gutierrez at the church. thomas roberts, we talked earlier about the vigils. you were at those vigils last night. >> reporter: i did attend that vigil. it was held at san manuel 66ers park, the minor league ball team here in san bernardino. basically the feeder team to the angels. it's a facility, a stadium, open air that holds roughly about 8,000 folks at full capacity. it was filled with people who came from multi-faiths, all walks of life, all shapes and sizes, all wanted to be together to comfort one another as they try to come to grips with what exactly happened. now a clearer picture is
starting to emerge. but it was multi-faith and the mayor was there saying we might be down but we are not out. i just wanted to pass on, i know there has been a lot of conversation about the victims and their children. we saw so many kids that were there last night with their parents. but i was able to speak to a source in the governor's office to find out about the shooter's baby. so many questions remain about this 6 month old child who was dropped off at farook's mother's house before the attackers went on that shooting massacre at the inland regional center behind me. according to my source, they say about the child and the future custody of this 6 month old baby, it depends on if there is a will or not that names a guardian. if there is a will that names the guardian, a court would still need to approve. again, all this is based on california state law. if there is no will, the court will step in and name a guardian that is in the best interest of the child. during this process, a family member can step up and nominate themselves but they will still
be evaluated by the court. obviously, this is a very fluid situation with more details coming up. now we just got that exclusive first look inside the apartment or townhome that was owned by or owned by a landlord that let kerry sanders in, but lived in by this couple with that young child. they showed toys, they showed the life that these folks were living behind those closed doors, a detached garage behind that home is what has been described by investigators as a bomb making factory by the amount of components and parts that they found in there to make improvised explosive devices. a lot of questions now about the life of this young child. again, it's a 6 month old baby that this couple just had and just to remind everybody, the timeline here, they got married and came back to this country and through that fiancee or marriage visa, the k-1 visa, that if the person who marries
someone can come into this with a naturalized born american citizen as farook is born in chicago, this was just in july of 2014. so it's not that long ago. it's less than a year and a half ago that this couple came back and married to start their life. this child, 6 months old and this couple now turns into some type of radicalized bonnie and clyde taking on the streets of san bernardino and the irc behind me to a christmas party event with rifles, automatic rifles and hand guns. there is so much that we still don't know. they are setting up just across the way from me, i see, for a 2:00 p.m. eastern press conference. we will bring it all to you. i encourage everybody to stick with us. we are getting new developments by the minute. >> thanks very much, thomas. we will give you a moment to reset for that and chuck todd, you have "mtp daily" 5:00 eastern and "meet the press" sunday. a lot to talk about. guns, religion, the politics of all of this. >> for 5:00 p.m. we have the
former -- president obama's first homeland security secretary, janet napolitano. sunday, we have the woman who is chief law enforcement officer of this country, loretta lynch. >> sunday morning. "meet the press." >> we will get an update on the investigation from the person who knows the most. >> fascinating. chuck todd, as always, thank you very much, my friend. that does it for this very difficult week and this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." thomas roberts as you saw is live in san bernardino. he's up next. the all day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve. how long have you had your car insurance? i ask because i had mine for over 20 years before i switched and saved hundreds with the aarp auto insurance program from the hartford. i had done a lot of comparison shopping. the rate was like half of what i was paying.
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about what this couple, these shooters, were living like as opposed to what they did here on wednesday. it's two different pictures that are being put together. we have an update from authorities on this investigation coming up at 2:00 p.m. eastern. perhaps the other big detail revealed today is that tashfeen malik, the wife of syed farooq posted a statement of support for the leader of isis on facebook. we are covering every angle of this story. we start with nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. he joins me in d.c. pete, explain the type of statement, how it was made and also, what authorities characterize this to suggest radicalization. >> sure. it's our understanding from investigators that this was a message posted by tashfeen malik just hours before the shooting at the place where you are standing right now on wednesday. she posted it on a facebook function called private messaging.