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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  December 4, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PST

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started way back in 2006, focused on somali americans in minnesota. did so well that it's expanded to the major cities. i talked to fbi personnel today before coming on your show, and they are showing resounding success on parents coming out and saying their daughters are about to get radicalized or get on a plane to go to syria. community leaders are coming out. and so many attacks have been prevented and thwarted because precisely because the american community is engaged. >> thank you so much. i'm afraid we're out of time, but thank you for being with us. that does it for this hour. thanks for being with me. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. ♪ good eving from washington. i'm chuck todd. and this is "mtp daily." we begin with the latest out of san bernardino, california,
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where we've had a lot of developments just the last few hours. in fact, an announcement from the fbi that dramatically changes the direction of the investigation. >> as of today, based on the information and the facts as we know them, we are now investigating these horrific acts as an act of terrorism. >> just after that, fbi director james comey, seated with attorney general loretta lynch, said information indicates there are no signs that show a terrorist cell here in the united states, but it's possible the san bernardino suspects were inspired by foreign terrorist organizations. >> the investigation so far has developed indications of radicalization by the killers, and of potential inspiration by foreign terrorist organizations. there is much about this that doesn't make sense to -- for even of us that do this for a living.
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>> unbelievable statement there, isn't it? according to authorities, neither the female attacker, tashfeen malik, or her husband, syed farook, was on the fbi's radar prior to the attack. a source close to the saudi government says malik was not on the saudi government's radar either and they had no knowledge of her being connected to any radical groups. we learned today from law enforcement sources that tashfeen malik pledged allegiance to isis, then within moments she and her husband launched the attack. the fbi office in los angeles says they are aware of this facebook post but "we don't know what's there yet." he also said we don't yet know whether malik radicalized her husband or why the couple suddenly stopped shooting after killing 14 and wounding 21. the fbi also confirms the attackers attempted to conceal and destroy their digital
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fingerprint, loeaving behind a crushed cell phone or two in a trash bin. the fbi is now examining them for data. this all comes as police release images of their weapons. from firearms to pipe bombs and court documents show the couple's garage was set up as a bomb making facility. with all the tools to inflict even greater damage. while the couple had enough ammunition to attack again, the fbi says they are certainly examining that possibility without making any clear-cut determination. joining me now, a whole slew of experts and reporters on this. pete williams is here. richard engsle and malcolm nance. pete, what did you learn off
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camera? >> reporter: i'm just going to give this to you quick, chuck. here's what he said. he declined -- he said this that part you saw, he declined to specify which organization they were motivated by. we asked if it was isis, and he wouldn't say. he look, this investigation, we're just 50 hours in and they're there's a lot of things we don't know. they are facing this part of the investigation looking at phone records e e-mail records. the electronic devices were badly damaged. he said yes, farook was in contact with people we've investigated in the past, but there's nothing about those contacts that seemed concerning at the time or raised their profile. a couple of other quick points. he said the person that bought
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the rifle for syed farook is not a suspect. somebody else bought the rifles and farook and his wife got it from that person. he's not a suspect. he couldn't say whether the couple targeted specifically their colleagues at that center or had some other targets in mind and were going to carry out other attacks. he couldn't say whether isis was even aware of them. he said, i don't know if -- he wouldn't say if isis was even aware of them. no sign they were in contact with others or in contact with known terrorists before this attack. he and the attorney general, loretta lynch, said several times it's important for people if they see something to say something. i said, does that mean you think they missed something? and he said it's reasonably
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likely. >> pete, thank you. we're going to take you to a live press conference. this is the attorney who represents the brother of one of the suspects, syed farook. tonight, we expect to hear from the attorney david chestling. >> there's two sisters and one brother. >> of syed farook? >> yes. >> so essentially the message that we want to give is, what we would like to say on behalf of the families and the muslim community in general is that just as late as 1:00 p.m. today, the fbi chief, james comey, came out and said that there was no sign that the alleged shooters belonged to a larger
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organization, a larger organized terrorist group or cell. they're trying to -- they have come up with some things where they're trying to say that they were inspired by some groups. but there hasn't been any clear smoking gun evidence that they were part of any particular cell or any group. they're pointing to the things that they saw on facebook, under different account names in the case of tashfeen malik. she supposedly had a facebook account set up under a different name that they say visited some group that may have been -- had ties to, you know, to more -- >> as more information keeps coming out, we'll be able to identify which facts are accurate and which facts are not.
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that is the whole point of us meeting with the fbi. we've been in open communication with the agents of the fbi and been at their offices in riverside. we were there for about four hours yesterday and will be finishing up monday hopefully with some of the other family members. as more facts come out about the types of relationship that each family member had, we'll be relating to that, as well. >> what do you know about what inspired them? >> what we can say from our four-hour interview, the investigation that took place with the fbi yesterday is none of the family members had any idea this was going to take place. they were totally shocked. the brother and sisters of the alleged shooter had no idea, to the point where when they got word that there was an incident that had taken place, they were worriy eied about the health an
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safety of syed and tashfeen. there's never been any evidence that either of the two alleged shooters were aggressive, had extremist views. they were totally shocked that this could take place, as shocked as anybody else was. >> and the family members had a basic relationship with her. it wasn't overly close, but it wasn't too distant. so the information that we have right now is shocking and surprising to the family. there is no official -- there's no official discrimination of what the reason was. what we were discussing with the fbi yesterday, they're still going through their facts, as we are as well. >> if there's anything remarkable about the investigation that took place yesterday, it is that no ties could really be established to the point of frustration on the part of the fbi.
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you know if the most evidence there is to any affiliation is a facebook account under another person's name, that supposedly just visited some site, then that's hardly anything at all. and throughout the whole process of the investigation yesterday, it got to the point where the fbi actually said, look, let us explain ourselves. we're trying to find evidence or information that could cause us to believe that syed farook was, in some way, affiliated with this incident. something inspired him to be involved in this incident. but the problem we're having is that we're not finding any evidence of any behavior that would show us that this would be the alleged shooter. and so, you know, why is that happening? and we were all like, well, we don't have any explanation other than there is no evidence.
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none of the family knew of him as being extreme or aggressive or having any extreme religious views. >> i think what the media should be cautious about is just because he had a religion, that he was a muslim, it had nothing to do with these acts. islam does not support any type of actions like this. it does not support killing or murder of innocent individuals. and the family would never support anything like this. they're giving their hearts and prayers and everything they can do to assist in the victims that lost their lives that day. [ inaudible question ] >> the fbi -- the media is leading with just assuming that this is a terrorist situation. [ inaudible ]
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>> i think every investigation the fbi does involving a muslim will involve some type of terrorist investigation for it. >> we're just relaying the information they're giving. what do you think the motive is then for the shooting? >> there was information about the fact that his co-workers had kind of made fun of him and his beard. he was a very isolated, introverted individual with really no friends that we could identify, like maybe one friend or no friends. and so i guess what we would say is that when an incident happens like this, when a christian goes to shoot up a planned parenthood, or an extreme catholic goes and bombs an abortion clinic, all the headlines don't say, extremist radical christian, catholic christian, just like right now, every headline is saying muslim and attaching muslim to it.
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there's a tendency to take a cookie cutter version or paradigm of a terrorist type event and super impose it on a situation just because that person is of muslim belief or tradition and i don't think that we should jump to conclusions, because we need to protect the muslim community. right now we're seeing a lot of infringements upon rights that are important to all of us. by this i mean we're talking about political candidates that could likely be our next president, who are saying things like we should register all muslims and mosques should be investigated and looked into. or that the families of terrorists should be killed without due process or the latest thing said was that it was known that it was going -- that it was a terrorist attack simply because the person had an islamic last name. any of us sitting here could say look, if somebody said they knew a heinous criminal act had been committed due to religion, just
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because it was a person of a certain last name and say it was committed -- it was alleged to be committed on what have of christians and you had a christian last name or a jewish last name, and your faith was constantly being attacked, i mean, i have so many muslim friends and people that i work with that are muslims, and every muslim community around the world has been in a state of remorse and condemnation of these acts. no one supports it. just as no christian or catholic would say oh, yeah, that's a good catholic that bombed that abortion clinic or shot up that planned parenthood. but it's not even -- we can't use that example, because as of yet, like the fbi chief james comey said, there has been no evidence that they found yet. this is his words in "the l.a. times." as of 1:00 p.m. today, that they are linked to a larger organized terrorist group or cell.
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all there is, because we all want an answer, we all are angry. we're all frustrated and sad. we want justice. but unfortunately, some things in life aren't as clear cut as that. so far there's just a n-- i checked out a britney spears post and i hate britney spears music. that doesn't mean you condone whatever you look at and read or acting on what have of what you look at and read. so we have to be protective of religious freedom in our country, of our fourth amendment rights. you know, just recently the land lords let journalists into the apartment of syed farook. >> there's media outlets going through there taking pictures of
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people who are not the suspects. i think this is the whoele poin of the fbi's direction, to determine what caused this. as david said, "the l.a. times" reported what james comeys a said and we're waiting to hear more information. [ inaudible ] >> -- she supposedly expressed sympathy of isis, what should people make of that? >> what evidence of that? >> his exact quote -- [ inaudible ] those are his words. >> he's trying to say it was inspired by. but what i read so far, we're all learning, because the
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investigation is ongoing. we're the attorneys, not the investigators, so none of us have all the information right now. from what i've read, all i seen is somebody looked at something on facebook. there was another thing -- there was another article i read that said the fbi had investigated people who syed farook allegedly spoke to. but even those people that the fbi had investigated, nothing came up for any of those people. this is the danger we're getting into. [ inaudible question ] >> -- are you saying you do not believe that there will be any connection to a foreign terrorist organization? >> we're saying we still have to wait for the investigation to be done before we make a determination. >> isn't that what the fbi is doing now and saying? >> i think the reports have been coming out that -- >> they're investigating.
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>> -- the fbi is going through the process, and it is a process. and as they get information and as they find out -- >> i think the idea of terrorists has been reported since this incident happened. so i think as more information comes out, then the media can start making reports. you guys shouldn't be making reports or statements concerning that there is a connection to a terrorist group until there is a factual link. >> we're criminal defense attorneys. we look for actual evidence. so we can't jump to conclusions is what we believe. >> we listened to what the fbi said, because the fbi is gathering evidence. so we consider the fbi a credible source. >> right, yeah.
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i just think that what we're looking at is, like i said, when the fbi chief has literally come out and said that they found no link to a larger terrorist group or a terrorist cell, i think people need to listen to that and consider that. and every headline, until there is absolute clear evidence, every headline doesn't have to say muslim massacre, or muslim shooters, because it's going to cause intolerance. what we need right now is forgiveness. although this is -- there were muslim people and muslim fall i families involved in this incident. as a primarily christian nation, i think we're a nation of mercy and forgiveness and we need to avoid stereotyping, bigotry.
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[ inaudible ] >> -- some of the reports you heard that link these acts to terrorism prematurely -- >> i don't think we are here to criticize. >> we're here to protect our clients, which happen to be muslim, and to stand up and grieve for the victims and say we're remorseful for what took place, and the muslim community doesn't support what took place. no muslim does nationwide. every muslim leader has come out and said this is not a muslim act. when someone goes crazy and commits an act that could be work related, it doesn't make a statement on behalf of an entire religion. we're trying to protect people. at the same time, we're still in mourning for both the family and the victims. and it was tragic, it's horrible. and we're trying to heal the nation as a whole. [ inaudible question ]
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>> there was a mention where he got teased about his beard, but there was nothing else about that. he usually shrugged off any time of jokes that people might have made about his appearance. that's what the family said. [ inaudible question ] >> they never did, and that's why we're just -- we're just making sure that we're not overzealous in our characterization of these events, one way or the other, until strong evidence comes out showing that this was, indeed, affiliated with something. i guess the frustration comes from we sat through this four-hour interview with the fbi. >> we still have more interviews
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we will be conducting with the fbi. that's why i caution on making any type of judgment before anything is done. >> but also during that investigation, i would say we as attorneys, as criminal defense attorneys practicing for ten years, we're looking for evidence and things of substance to substantiate a link or a tie to something, just as the fbi was. when we sat there for four hours, being in that interview with the family members, no one could identify any links or radical or extremist behavior, any attempt to be hostile in any way to force people to adhere to certain religious beliefs. any odd or strange orangery behavior before the shooting. nothing was there. so it's not so much i'm siding with someone one way or the other, but i'm just being objective. that's been my job all these years. and i'm just reporting to you what i've seen during that investigation. there was no evidence of
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anything. and what we're hearing now from the media, i'm just saying from an objective perspective, has been very tenuous. so that's any feeling. i don't feel like we ought to be overzealous in our characterization of the events until we have additional evidence. >> these were family members in the home, a brother, sister. >> in what home? >> the suspect's. did they ever see any evidence of what's been described by police, bomb making, large caches of weapons? >> the family members knew he had two hand guns and kept them locked up and that he was licensed for them. the family members would have get togethers on occasion, but they wouldn't be going through his house. this was a brother they had no idea something like this could happen. >> there was never anything like -- there was any any evidence of any of these pipe
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bombs that were seen around. in addition, i would just say -- i mean, you know, it has been horrible. as americans, we want to protect one another and make sure we're living in a safe and security society. but statements made about, for example, the number of rounds that were there. as a gun owner myself, i myself probably have 4,000, 5,000 rounds that i keep at home. and the reason you buy them in bulk is they're cheaper that way, and the government keeps on outlawing different types of bullets and guns at different times. then there will be shortages of bullets that occur very commontily, where homeland security will order 2 million of a certain types of bullets and you can't get it. so if you're target shooting, it's not uncommon to have 4,000
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rounds. one of the main things i want to make sure happens is not only one is not discriminated against as a result of this incident, but we continue to protect our freedom of religion and also our second right amendment to bear arms. we can't have this announcement by the president every time there's an incident like this, that we need to ban all guns. those rights are important to us as americans. we died for those rights. and they shouldn't be denied. [ inaudible question ] >> she grew up in pakistan. at the age of 18 or 20 years of age, she moved to saudi arabia. she was educated but there was nothing to show -- i heard reports she was a pharmacist or something. >> she is not a pharmacist. >> she is not a pharmacist over here. >> she was a housewife. she took care of the child. the mother lived with them at
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the house. so she was primarily a housewife. she had only come over here in 2014. [ inaudible ] >> i'm not -- she's only been a mother for six months. so the family just knew her as she was caring, soft spoken, very basic information. >> she was like a typical house wife. >> she spoke english and erdu, as well. [ inaudible ] >> for the year she was here, she was assimilating fine. >> she did maintain certain traditions from what i understand, in terms of fasting and prayer five times a day. she chose not to drive voluntarily. but these are all benign, you know, these are things that many muslims do and it doesn't mean anything necessarily. [ inaudible ]
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>> i think what we're seeing is there's -- she was a very private person. she was -- she kept herself very isolated, she was very conservative. i think one of the dangers, since everyone does know so little, is she's easy to pin things to or stigmatize, and she's been the one that the media has done a lot of that, too. or there's not a lot of information about her. we need to guard against that, there is very little information we have about her, other than the fact that she is a caring housewife. >> one of the things i can tell you that i have discussed with the family about the housewife. they're very traditional. the family would go over to the house. they wouldn't all be together in the room. the women would sit with the women, the men with the men. that is a very traditional way of acting. so the men did not interact with
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her. and the brothers have never seen her face, because she did wear a burqa. so they just knew her as syed's wife. [ inaudible ] >> -- are they looking back now, saying when they did x, y, z, now we realize that's what they were doingsome -- >> to be honest, they thought his hobbies were building cars. they never invaded his personal space. he used to go into the garage and work on things. he used to build shoe racks for his sister. so the family was taken by shock. this is something that took them and just hit them as hard as anyone else.
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the family would just go in the garage to see some of the things he would be working on, like his car. [ inaudible ] >> -- they never noticed of any of the guns? >> they were aware of the guns, but they were locked up in a case. >> when we talk about guns, there were two 9 millimeters and two rifles. but what we know, that was for target shooting. but there was definitely never evidence of any of the other things. [ inaudible question ] >> it wasn't something he had gone and gotten a formal education for but he picked up by watching his father, reading books. he read books about cars and
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mechanics. he was learning as he went along. >> you said he had been made fun of or teased about his beard. was that something he talked about a lot? [ inaudible ] -- did he say there's a guy at work who has been harassing me? >> i think it was just a general conversation he had with the family. oh, somebody just made fun of my beard. >> that's part of the concern is we can't lead some intolerance to lead to further intolerance. there's times when these things happen in all sects of american culture, where someone is disgruntled or gets made fun of, they're an anti-social person and they lash out and they do bizarre things like in columbine or wherever. you know, in colorado recently. it's hard to attribute just to
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the religion of islam or muslim people and all muslims are condemning this act and we're all praying on behalf of the victims and we all feel terrible about what happened. [ inaudible ] >> -- you're saying the family did not see any sign? >> the family just knew he was made fun of. you know, his job, he had to keep his facial hair trimmed up a little more because of the type of job he had. so that's why he had told the family about this situation. and mind you, he was a pretty private person. so for him to share some information, that's why the family conveyed that to us as to what happened a @ workplace. >> there's some conflicting information about how they met. >> the couple met through an online dating website. it was a marriage website. they had met, they had interest
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that they matched up. >> was it a muslim website? >> we're trying to find out more information. >> how do you know -- >> the family talked about this, as well as the fbi. [ inaudible ] >> they probably met in 2013 and got married closer to the 2014 time period. >> did they meet in person any time before that? >> he had went out there for a hajj, and then they went ahead and met and married a short time after that. [ inaudible ] >> that is our understanding, yes. >> did he meet with her personally when he went to the hajj? >> i think he might have been with the family. [ inaudible ]
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>> -- i'm wondering if any of the family members -- [ inaudible ] >> she was very soft spoken. from the conversations we've had with the family members, she was a soft spoken individual. the women communicated with her. syed farook didn't want anyone else to talk with her. so she was very soft spoken and nice. they only knew her for a year and a half or so. >> what do you know about her? >> nothing. they lived in saudi arabia. that's all we know. >> are they concerned for their safety, this family? >> the family members in saudi? >> no, no. the family here. >> they've gotten threats. it's been a consistent -- they've gotten phone calls, people threatened them through facebook. the brother was misidentified.
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that's a really bad situation to be misidentified as an active shooter. >> was her family pakistani? >> who? >> the wife. >> pakistani. when she was 18 or 20, she went to riyadh, saudi arabia to get married with syed. >> did the family see them wednesday morning? >> i think there's opinion some confusion what they did with the grand child. the mother lived with syed and his wife. so they were going off to a doctor's appointment and left the child with her. they didn't drop off the child. since the mother lived there, she was taking care of her grandchild at the time. 5u8d aud -- [ inaudible ] >> they had the stomach flu and he was going to take his wife to the doctor. >> if the mother lived with
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them, did she ever notice anything going on? >> this is just so -- this is just the stereo typical situation of what takes place every time there is an event like this. most of the time no one knows that much about the 14509 ever and the same thing was the case here. the mother stayed to herself. i think she stayed upstairs. so she would have been separate and not known much about what was taking place in the rest of the house. and everyone is always surprised by these incidents. the same thing is true here, everyone was in shock. there was a tendency to look for a network, religious affiliation, an extremist group, friends, an imam, lists of people that went to the wedding. anything that could be there to find some type of a terrorist network. and the fbi was doing their job. we're all angry, we all want answers. we all want security and to be
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protected. but nothing came up, and that is what is so shocking about all this. i just need to feel the need to emphasize that so much, because we have a tendency to characterize it that way. it was bizarre to sit through the interview for four hours and not find or see what happens. but there was nothing linking this -- >> [ inaudible ] >> they're the fbi and they're damn good get thing information. they had the mother under pressure for seven hours or so. they basically took her into custody and at one point they had the mother in custody and said, we're not letting your mother go. they said this to the sister of syed, we're not going to let your mother go until you and your brother and sister come in for questioning. and i get the feeling that that
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was a really traumatic experience, because her son had just died and she was totally distraught over how that happened and the victims. she's been crying all these past couple of days. she hates what happened. she's very mournful over the victims. but i guess what i'm saying is, they're not new to this game. one of the fbi investigators we sat down with clearly looked like he would be a plant in a mosque. he had a beard. he looked like he just walked right out of pakistan or saudi arabia. these are very shrewd, you know, smart individuals. if there was any information there, they would have found it. the entire world is digging for information. and the most we've gotten so far is somebody looked at something on facebook. that's all we got so far. [ inaudible ] >> all we know -- what we know is that the sister, eva, went
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back to pick up the mother and when she went back, the computers in the house were unplugged. she had said. but i haven't read all about this digital information. yeah, i mean, there's a lot of -- >> there's more information we'll be getting once we go back on monday to discuss the different media. the family has been more than cooperative giving up any of their sources that they might have to assist the fbi in their education. >> what does the family think happen then? >> the family is in complete shock. they have no idea what happened. this was their brother by blood, but they weren't too close to them. everybody had their own life. they weren't as close as they were when they were 15, 16 years of age. the family is sad for all the victims. they have two losses of their own, as well. [ inaudible ]
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>> we'll give you nor details about that when we find out more. we can't discuss that right now. [ inaudible ] >> chide services from what we understand. i guess we're not -- we've been trying to get the baby back, but it looks like we're probably not going to be able to get the baby out until at least monday. >> there is a hearing set for the child. we've been in open communication with child protective services to get this child released to one of the family members. the fbi has been willing to do that. >> do you know which family member? >> most likely his older sister. [ inaudible ] >> basically what you're saying
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whatever motive this was for this is very, very hidden. >> it's been very hidden, as you can see from the statement of the fbi chief, that there isn't any connection. i guess we're all wants justice and wanting to make sure we find out anybody who may be affiliated with it, so we'll be protected in the future. but at the same time, we all need to be protective and respectful of each other's religion. the motive is -- there's -- the motive is very unclear. it could be a disgruntled worker. >> at this point, it could be disgruntled employee, information that's coming in now about their connections to different types of groups.
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until we finish up with the nib on monday and tuesday, that's when we will be able to see what this is painted as. we will be doing interviews on monday and tuesday with the fbi. [ inaudible ] >> we said she was not a pharmacist here. >> did she get a degree? >> there is no type of degree in saudi arabia she had received. okay. so we will be finishing this up. if you have more questions on monday, we'll finish up with the fbi. >> thank you very much, guys. >> we've withbeen listening to attorneys for the farook family, saying there was no evidence the couple was part of a militant group and kept emphasizing the family, while close, wasn't that close. let's get some perspective on
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this with malcolm nance. and janet napolitano. let me start with you, you were listening to that press conference, waiting for our discussion. how should we as viewers read a press conference like that? obviously those attorneys have a point of view. >> they have a point of view, and clients to represent. i think the thing that struck me is how much we don't know. and that's not surprising. we're still in the immediate aftermath of this horrific attack. there's a lot of information that needs to be unpacked and evidence that needs to be assembled. now we need to let law enforcement do their job and to work backwards now to see was there anything missed. are there any kind of tip-offs here that we can look at, particularly when we know about
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and compare with other types of cases. because one of the difficulties from a homeland security perspective and a law enforcement perspective, and you see it here, is the lack of anything overt, at least before the attacks began. that anyone can point to. so was there something perhaps less overt that was missed? and that i think is important work that needs to be done. >> malcolm nance, what did you glean from what you heard from those attorneys, and where -- where would you be focusing your efforts the most right now, would it be trying to learn more about the wife? >> well, it would absolutely be learning more about the wife, because she is a factor that nobody really knows much about. the fbi themselves and other organizations have been trying to gape a picture of where she came from, what she did within that house. but what's most significant for me is the very fact that this is
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classic idealogical compartmentalization for someone who has been radicalized. the families never know what's going on. they rarely see the stages of radicalization, because in al qaeda and isis ideology, their mindset, mental withdrawal is the first thing they do. they want you to withdraw from the land you're in and come to the caliphate. >> so it's very believable to you saying the brother didn't know, the mother didn't know, that's a very believable statement to you? >> very believable, but the 0de0d e oddest factor is the abandoning of the baby. even for suicide teams we've seen overseas, boko haram kills their family rather than leave them behind. >> secretary napolitano, i know it's been a while since you've been in the middle of these
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debates, but this visa issues in general, whether the visa waiver programs with our closest allies or the fiance visa, how much of a security gap is that when it comes to this? >> i think from what i understand, the wife was here on a kvisa, and that is a very elaborate process. and it takes about a six-month period to get the set of checks done. and what visa waiver means is there are a set of countries that we don't require visas from because of the travel back and forth. european countries for the most part. i think there are some proposals to tighten up a bit on visa waiver in terms of identifying people who have -- who may be safe from france or great britain or germany. but have recently been in places
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in the middle east, in syria, in that area of the world, that they would not be entitled to visa waiver. they would have to go in and get a visa before traveling to the united states. >> let me ask you the larger question here. there's going to be a lot of nervousness in the country when it comes to muslims. we heard the family attorneys constantly talk about it and the harassment taking place. the line, how does the -- how did you walk this line, how does the fbi walk this line of monitoring without profiling? >> well, profiling it turns out isn't the most effective way to do security, because profiling detracts you from looking for particularities, for evidence, for true predictive behaviors. and so what you have to do is really make sure, be very rig
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louse about the business you're in, which is to reduce and mitigate risks, use all the evidence that you can find in order to do that, use the best intelligence you can acquire in order to do that. and by the way, i think as well working with the religious communities of the united states. that was very important part, countering violent extremism was a very important part of the work of the department of homeland security and others in the law enforcement world, because at some point, we have to get a handle on how do we better prevent these types of attacks from occurring. >> malcolm, are you concerned there wasn't an intelligence or investigation failure or is this one of those cases where you think it's more likely that this couple flew under the radar? >> well, they flew under the radar because it's very hard to understand what's going on in the minds of an individual. any individual in the united states can radicalize on the basis of whatever psychological
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defect they have or religious belief that they have. so it is not an intelligence failure in the sense that they gave out preincident end kale f -- indicators. it has to be seen. it has to be detected. so i don't believe it's an intelligence failure, i believe it's a lack of intelligence leading up to this incident. >> malcolm nance, i'll leave it there. thank you. janet napolitano, thank you for coming on. apologize for the delay, but breaking news happens and that press conference was something to listen to. we'll be right back after this break. the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back
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the recent attacks in san bernadino the an paris have pulled at the public's security. and it is also emotional inner a sha for those who want to apply the reforms to guns and security and visa programs on down, but is the government in any shape to do something about it? and how can the two parties meet to come up with a realistic solution in the middle of the contentious presidential campaign? join g joining us from new york is our nbc special news correspondent tom brokaw. and tom, it is feeling like a different political environment
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right now than it was 15 years ago in the political system compared to 9/11. >> yes, and given what we know what happened in san bernadino and don't know as far as the motivation. listen to defense secretaries talking about the mother not knowing what is going on and what do we know about the woman going on a and how radical iziz she may or may not have been, and the issue for the candidates is not to declare war on the islamic war, and there with 1.23 billion muslim s s in the world and that is 23% of our population, and actually, 1.3 billion muslims, and we don't want to radicalize them by just declaring war on them, and at the same time, there is very good reason to be frustrated and a little bit more than terrified about wh is go -- what is going on here. and it is not going to behoove the candidates to try to exploit
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it. >> and the candidates for a minutes, what is the role that president obama should be playing in this. we have seen the nervous people out there, and the rise in the background checks for black friday to purchase a weapon, and people are feeling insecure whether sit is the mass shootings, it is palpable. >> yes, he has to acknowledge clearly more than he did in the beginning that he understands the fears, and that it is an opportunity for this country to have a dialogue within this country about having a more rational approach to that, and reach across the party lines, and say, how do we deal with that and not just in terms of the new legislation or new people being appointed to positions, but how do we deal with calming america, and understanding what it is that we all have have to be thinking about. that is what i would like to see, and it is very hard to do in the middle of the
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presidential campaign, obviously, but what concerns me not only as a journalist, but as a citizen and grand father, i don't want people pulling pins and grenades to throw them in unknown place, and making it much worse than it is. and it is hard to know where where to begin, but if you a start, getting the assault guns under control is a place that we have to stop and look at. when you look at the pictures of the access leelly to the lethal weapons, it goes beyond saying that we have the second amendment. at some point we have to have a conversation about it at least. i have said it as i have said before as a gun owner. it is outrageous that people say, no, no, cannot talk about it. we have to talk about it, and slow down that traffic. >> control the dialogue to bring down the temperature. tom brokaw, thank you, sir. >> you got it, chuck. >> i want to talk to the panel here with susan page, and perry
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bacon and of course sarah ra, a long time political strategist. and now, let's begin with ted cruz campaigning in iowa and strong language defending the second amendment. listen to the this. >> a terror attack on the american soil, an the answer is to disarm the american citizen, and the folks in the media ask at the bequest, isn't it incentive for us to do a second amendment rally following the terrorist attacktive. well, let me tell you, i don't view our job as being sensitive to iz lslamic terrorists. >> and ted cruz is finding a new voice over the last few weeks. >> yes, he is doing well, and surging the poll, and if the e election were in iowa today, he might win it. and talk thing about the policy ideas, the republicans are saying that they are going to be
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defending the gun ownership, and gun rights throughout the candidates as well as hillary clinton and so they have views, and the views are are diametrically opposed right now. >> absolutely. i the think that ted cruz was absolutely right in his comments, and if in fact this is terrorism, and jihadi terrorism, it is very different than the other tragedies, and while the president is right to defend the vast majority of muslims as hardworking people, he should call this what it is, and he should call it, you know, radical. >> susan? >> well, we are going into the tough period for americans. this not at all the tone that your former boss george w. bush took after the 9/11 attacks when he said over and over, we are not at war with islam, and respect your muslim neighbors,
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and you are not hearing that arctic you are lated by president obama. >> and i am surprised, i was about to the say, and perry, are you surprised that we have not heard from him to day, and the fbi came out to say they are treating it as a terrorist attack. and we have not heard from him today, and i assume we will, i will be honest, because it is getting later in the evening. >> i am not totally sure what presidential leadership will do to this, because we have to talk about the policy, and i am not saying gun control or isis, and i want to hear from all of those candidates about what their plan is, and more details and less rhetoric. >> there is no office like the oval office, and he has been weak on both sides of the issue, i think. you know, it is as if he is just hope ing f hoping for the good news, and that it is not terrorism, and not something that the fbi or the cia can be criticized for. >> i don't agree with that. >> and i don't agree with that
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as far as the policy position, because i believe that you can say it is a scary time, and people are coming out that we could be coming out that is something to unite us, because this is a moment that is dividing us auz a nation. >> and if you think that the problem is gun control, he has been emphatic about it. >> and he is not weak on defending islam and -- >> strong with the opinions, and i think that --? i don't think that he has been strong on it at all. >> the crisis was very much in framed to -- >> but compared to president bush, you are right, he is not providing the leadership that he is expking from the president, because he too partisan and when you are president in a tragedy like this, you have a different responsibility than the head of the democratic national
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committ committee. >> and is this helping donald trump? >> yes shg, if you are out ther saying, i will fight, and after the paris attacks, all of the comments said that it would hurt him, it was not true at all. it strengthened him. >> and so, very short and energetic panel to tend of the week. i appreciate it. sunday on the "meet the press"ly have an exclusive interview with the attorney general loretta lynch, and one part of to larger discussion that we will have on the issue of radicalization. and kate snow is going to be picking up our coverage next. i will see you sunday. s of to d as of today, based information and the facts as we know them, we are now investigating the horrific acts as an act of terrorism. >> the fbi is now taking the


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