tv Weekends With Alex Witt MSNBC December 5, 2015 9:00am-11:01am PST
of the san bernardino terror investigation. this is what we know. reuters is reporting ta isis is reporting that the followers carried out the san bernardino shootings. the fbi is investigating the shootings as an act of terror, and also the fbi says that there there is no evidence that the couple acted as a group or terror cell, and the clues left behind do not lead in one direction. >> there is a lot of evidence in the case that does not quite make sense, so we are tri tying be thoughtful to understand it, and make sense of it to understand the full extent of what we have here. >> and today, we are seeing the pictures of the woman, tashfeen malik who took part in the shootings she and sayed farook were both killed in the attack. and now, we are joined by blake who is at the scene, and what are you seeing today? >> well, alex, the three active scenes here in san bernardino are down to one now. the fbi has finished searching the couple's home, and removed the the bullet-riddled suv from
the intersection of where the shootout occurred, and so now we are down the one active crime scene which is the conference center where 14 people lost their the lives. right now, several hundred fbi agents are investigating this. the ones overseas are looking into the couples' travel hist y history. we know that she was a pakistani descent so they are looking there, and also spent some time in saudi arabia and he visited her there, and they got married there, and so they are look into that, and also here in the country, they are poring over the digital footprint of the couple where they feel that the golden nuggets of information will come to that will hopefully lead to a motive. and alex, we heard the fbi director there saying that things don't add up, and adding to that, a u.p.s. facility had to be evacuated here in san
bernardino, because there was a package address ed ed to the suspect's home, and so why they were ordering items when they were planning to carry out this attack is a big question. it turned out to be some clothes they had ordered online. >> so blake, is there an indication of what specifically the investigators are hoping to find on the couple's phone, google maps or e-mail or what? >> it is what kind of internet searches they were doing, and the web sites they were visiting, and we know that the wife apparently posted on facebook support for the isis leader around the time of the atta attack, and things like that that can help to shed some light on the motive. >> thank you, blake cook. and lawmakers described the san bernardino killings as
radicalized, but farook's family is saying something completely d different, and they are saying that the wife malik was very different person. >> she was private person and kept herself very isolated and very conservative. and i think that one of the dang dangers is that since everyone does know so little is that she is easy to pin things to or to stigmatize with. >> and one of the things that i can tell you about, i had the discussions with the housewife they are traditional and in the sense that the family would go to the house, and be together in the room, and the women would sit with the women, and the men would sit with the men, and it is a traditional way of acting, and not anything different and so they would not interact with her, and the brothers did not see her face, and they did not see her, because she wore a burka. >> totally covered? >> yes, and she was just syed's wife. >> did she speak english?
>> yes, and she did speak english but the native language was erdu. >> and what about activities? >> no, the family thought that he liked to work on cars, and that is with when he would go into the garage, and the man cave of sorts, and go into the garage and make shoe racks for the wife instead of making her buy one. the family is very much in shock and remorse fful and took them d hit them as hard as anyone else. >> and i would like to bring in michael balboni who is the director of the homeland security in new york state. michael, you can hear the characterizations here from the lawyers, and does it surprise you that the couple went undetected and farook built shoe cases for the sister, and the garage was his man cave, and
does it make you worry that there are many others like this? >> well, these attack and attacks in paris have thrown a complete monkey wrench into the common thinking of putting up the right surveillance and talk to the folks in the community, we will see who is doing what and have an ability to deter or disrupt what is going on, and as the officers said in l.a., there are so many things here that don't make sense. how do you leave a #-month-old? how do you target a target with no symbolic significance and is it a target of opportunity? if it is true ta had the dispute, was it a trigger or part of the plan? it doesn't seem like it is a plan. and now all of the things begin to say to the law enforcement, and the security, oh, do we have this right? is this a new example of the things that could fly under the radar screen and into thep gas? >> michael, you are the director of homeland security in new york, and did you hear of a similar plot and did the state
ever stop a plot of that nature? >> in my experience, the first thing i recognize is that the in order to have surveillance of an individual, it takes an enormous amount of resource, and frankly, if you are listening to drirectr comey, you recognize that the fbi who has less people in the fbi than the new york city police department, they don't have the resources to track all of the 900 case, and you are not even sure there is a proper justification for that, and are nonetheless, we have an exexpectation that you can do that, but i have seen that the intelligence is more of an art form than science. so many times we had leads. one facility upstate where we were sure so many signs that it was something that we should be look looking at and it turned out to be nothing. so that is the part that people don't recognize, so many leads, and so many tips that you have to track them down, and that is again, the utilization, and the exhaustion of resources. >> yes, understandably so, but again, did you ever stop
something of this nature in new york state? >> no. i have never seen it. the closest that we have had to the successful destruction is the azazi plot where he went to colorado to buy the clorox to come to new york to try to commit something, but that was stopped. that is the closest case where somebody was going to be going operational. that is is another thing. there are so many steps that you can take, but when do you go from aspirational to operational, and it is a moment that is such a challenge for the law enforcement and the security. >> and many reasons as well. l let's take a lao listen to what the director of the fbi's los angeles office said yesterday. here is that. >> to destroy their digital fingerprints. for example, we found two cell phones in a nearby trash can. those cell phones were crush ed.
we have retaped those cell phone, and we do continue to exploit the data are from those cell phones. we do hope that the digital fingerprints that were left by these two individuals will take us towards the motivation. >> and how hard to get information from destroyed electronics like ta? >> well, the fbi and other agencies have been able to develop a sophisticated capability of securing information from phones, but so the therefore we expect they will get a really good example or signatures as to what has been happening in the couple's lives. but it points out that the gus s that want to commit other attacks, the folks in isis, they are going to social media in very different ways. they are using apps that you cannot monitor, and going to much more sophisticated ways of communicating, and we have seen it in paris, and a couple of operations, but it has also gotten a lot of the law
enforcement security personnel very concerned and there is a level of sophistication for folks being trap and the travel patterns to pick up, and yet they are getting inspired and instructed from the standpoint of folks being able to communicate with them that we can't pick up. and big concern going forward. >> michael, the fbi had that guy dave bowditch who said that the process of evidence was ongoing, but they were done with the suspects' apartment, but when the media got in there, there were a number of items there. and why would the fbi say that the search is over, and would they want to go back, and if so, is the information there not going to happen, because it has been trampled over? >> well, it is very very dif doubt second-guess what investigators are doing. they go into the scene. they secure the scene. they then go to find out what is
in the scene, and catalog it, and take what they need. maybe there were things that are not relevant necessarily, and it is hard to come in, and take a look at what is there, and say, gee, isn't this more relevant? i assure you these are sophisticated personnel in the investigations, and the fbi is very good at doing this, and what they decide to take or not take, there is a good rational about that, and none of which i am aware of. >> thank you, michael balboni, always good to talk to you. >> thank you. and now, the first time in 95 years space on the front page is devoted to an editorial calling for more legislation in the wake of the latest mass shooting. and now, there are two more suspects revealed that are accused of helping the french bombers. they are believed to have driven
the bombers to the targets on the night of the attack. and scary that a plane made a belly landing when they encountered landing gear problem, and you will see the sparks are the there, but nobody was injured and they foam ed th runway effectively. a man was pulled over initially for not having the lights on, and then the dash cam recorded to the amazement that the driver tried to snort cocaine right then and there. >> are you kidding? you are about to snort coke on the side of the road? no! what would possess you to do that on a traffic stop with a police officer behind you? i don't understand. >> i don't understand either. >> and then the driver tried to say it was vitamin, and then later said it was cocaine. and now, will the increased
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new reports today that the strengthen the possible ties of the san bernardino shootings and terrorism. roiterers is saying that the shootings were carried out by followers of the group isis, but fbi director james comey says there is no direct isis link. >> there is is no indication that these killers are part of a
larger group or form part of a cell. there is no indication that they are part of a network. again, i quickly add, it is early, and we are still working very hard to understand, but i wanted you to the know that so far we don't see such indications. >> let's bring in john garamindi who sits on the house can committee on terror. and what is the likelihood that a more organized group of isis could surface? >> what the director said is very relevant, very early in hen investigation, they don't see it, but if it is is still out there, we will find out. we will find out within a few days probably if there is more to it. my personal view of is it is that it is far too complex to be two people, but that is somebody who is standing 2300 miles away from the situation right now. >> yeah. >> it is certainly still early
in the investigation, but the shootings have raised questios s about the readiness of the local and federal authorities to i identify potential homegrown terrorist, and are enough resources put into the ability to identify homegrown terrorists? >> no, there is not sufficient resources. the fbi is going to the have to beef up their operations, and all of it has to be reviewed by congress, and we are in the midst of an appropriations process right now, and i hope that my colleagues on the appropriations committee are looking at the fbi budget, and possibly enhancing it. also, the other intelligence organizations. this is very, very important, and we have to reach outside of the country, and so that means that our relationships with other countries, and their investigative resources. are we as tight and necessary trading the information back and forth?
we saw from the paris event that the answer is no, we are not. we must e beef it up, and that is going to take us up to the visa issue. people who don't hold a valid passport from the european countries can enter the united states with a visa. there is is something that we need to look at that, and a bill produced in the house that goes to that question. it will make it much more difficult for people not checked out by their home country, and that home country sending the relative information back to us in the united states. they will not come into the united states if this bill becomes law. >> hmm, sounds like another thing to add to the list to the look into. >> long list. >> and now, the farook family is fearing that there is a rush to judgment, and that muslims will be treated differently.
have you heard from your muslim constituents and a concern of a backlash? >> yes, and there is going to be a backlash, and we in the united states have to be aware not the paint an entire part of the country's population with a broad brush to indict them even though they are upstanding and outstanding citizens of the community. just to be aware of that, but it is not a new phenomena where we have seen it in my own community where we have a large is sikh population. >> and let's talk gun control, because some of the toughest in california and these two obtained them legally. two of the assault weapons were
purr kased in 20 #11 and 2012, d is there a law that could pass that would e prevent this or a law that could be? >> no, there is not currently. we know that you significantly reduce to a availability of guns to those who are crazy or mentally ill or acting inappropria inappropriately in their community such as domestic violence. >> and we need to close with what is a loophole that you are on the terrorist watch list, and you not fly, but you can buy a gun, we need to close that. unfortunately the republicans in the senate two nights ago decided that was not an appropriate papproach policy for america, and somehow we can allow those who cannot fly to purchase guns.
the american public says, huh? what is that all about? >> and in the weekly address today, the president took a tougher rhetorical response to the fight, and in a way to say that he needs to strike a more aggressive tone, and what is your take on that? do you want to hear more from the president? >> well, he is the national leader, and he needs to be out in front of the all of the issues. and he has been out there in front of the gun safety issues, and that is good, and he is calling for the specific legislation, and that is good. there is also the national leadership, and by and large, he has set the appropriate strategy in place to deal with isis which is many, many countries involved and particularly the surrounding countri countries, turkey, jordan and the gulf state, and all of those involved in the fight against isis. there is is always always going
discussions about the implementation of the strategy, but most agree that the strategy is right. we will definitely continue with the air war, and the special fortss, and i h think -- special force, and the president is correct, we should not put major elements of our army battalions or the heavy armor and artillery and the like, because that boots on the ground, and this is the vast number of boots have to come from the neighboring countries, and otherwise, once again, it is america in the middle east conducting what is by many in that area would consider to be some sort of an invasio invasion. >> and in part referring there to the president's earlier decision to send a small contingent to the small operations forces to syria. do you support any military build-up in the region, and can it be effective the at all? >> well sh, it can be effective. but first of all, we need to be clear about what we are doing. we have to have the authorization to use force otherwise known as a declaration of war, and we don't have that,
and it is a tin you wous legal situation that the president and the military are involved in syria, and it reaches all of the way back to the authorization of use force against the taliban and al qaeda in afghanistan, and now it is stretched 11,000 or 1,200 miles to the west to syria. so we need in congress to come to grips with this reality that we are at war in syria as well as in iraq against isis. that the requires us in congress to take the responsibility that is given to us and in fact, trusted and thrust upon us by the constitution that only congress can declare war. >> and do you believe that decreasing the military there in syria increases our security domestically here is? >> not with major boots on the ground. we have to be involve and a leadership role, and no doubt
about it. and we have to have significant air power, and aerial bombardment going on, and we have advisers on the ground in iraq training and preparing the iraqi forces which is absolutely essential, and iraq has to protect itself against isis, and it requires the training elements with regard to syria, we have special forces that are involved in syria now, and we think that it is appropriate, but it is a major mistake to put major elements of the army and even the marines in those areas with heavy armament, and the brigades and the like. and that is american boots on the ground, and american war. this can only be won by a regional effort to root out the terrorists of isis, and if we try to do it on our own, it is not going to be solving the underlying problem. i think that are there is a need for a new strategy here, and we need to look at a strategic triad and one is a military that
is in play now, and we have to think about the development and the diplomacy of the other two parts of it. economic development in that area. when you have more than 50% or 60% of the young men in those countries with no hope, no job, no future, you know that you have problems. so economic development becomes essential, and not just in the middle east, but in many, many other parts of the world, and of course, the diplomacy to bringing together the countries in the area to the fight a common enemy which is a great threat to the countries whether it is jordan or turkey or iraq. >> california congressman john garamendi, thank you so much. >> thank you, alex. and students planning to arm themselves in the wake of the san bernardino shoot inings, an that next.
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students at that christian school in virginia to carry concealed weapons. the students are encouraged to take a free class to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon offered by the police department. and jerry fallwell jr. says it blows his mind that president obama is calling for more gun control laws. we will be right back. this holiday i can count on someone's kid mistaking me for santa. i'm so sorry. come on sweetie. it's okay. and knowing right when my packages arrive. introducing real-time delivery notifications. one more reason this is our season.
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if we all do that we can all win. prudential bring your challenges® welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." new developments in the investigation into the terrorist attacks in san bernardino. isis says that its follower carried out the shooting acts. but the fbi says that there is no evidence that the couple acted as part of a group or terror cell. the president today using the week ly address the send a message of terrorism in the wake of san bernardino. >> we are americans. we will uphold our values in our free and open society. we are strong, and we are resilient, and we will not be
terrorized. >> ron allen is standing by at the white house with more on this. and ron, goodday to you. >> than you, alex. this is as close as it comes to the president calling what happened in san bernardino as an act of terrorism, they have been parsing the words here for a number of reason, and essentially the president and the advisers saying that they want the fbi to conduct the investigation, and see what the facts say, and see what the motive is of these two attackers, and that is what they are focusing on. they are trying the keep the country calm, and to try to not rush to judgment. again, today, the president said that it is quote entirely possible that the two attackers were radicalized to commit this act of terror. and now the president has been criticized for focusing on the gun control issues the whole time following the san bernardino massacre, but today, he kept talking about the gun control saying that there are loopholes in the law that needs to be closed particularly when it comes to the terror watch
list and boarding a plane. this is what the president had to say about that issue. >> right now, people can walk into a store and buy a gun that are on the no-fly list. if you are too dangerous the fly on a plane, you are too dangerous the buy a gun. it is just at the bare minimum we should not make it so easy for a terrorist to get their hands on guns that can be used against americans. >> and many are saying that the president is missing the point. it is not about gun safety, but bomb safety. and then the senate voted down a bill or part of the bill to close the loophole that the president was talking about saying that people who are put on the no-fly list are done so without due process and they should be granted due process, and also if somebody is so dangerous, they should be arrested for plotting a terror
attack. and now, as the debate goes on, then the issue of the homegrown terror and radicalization has been on the radar since 9/111. again, they are trying the to be reassuring, and crossing the words, and not calling it terrorism outright, but moving in that drek shungs because if the president comes out to say that it is an act of homegrown terrorism, is it is a whole different level. and our president has been criticized for being weak of taking on isis abroad, and certainly concerns about whether he is up to dealing with the challenge at home, alex. >> thank you, ron allen. and great setup for the next segment, because in the wake of the california shootings, how the obama administration dealing with terror on the glow the ball level. let's bring in our national security military analyst kevin baron, and kevin with a welcome to you. is there anything in particular that you have heard about this that strikes you as a takeaway or something that is sticking
with you that maybe you had not heard officially? >> no, it is not what i have not heard, but it is what we have heard before, and specifically from the fbi director comey, and you know, the reporter is right that the administration is looking at gun control, but the fbi director and the dhs secretary, and the other intelligence officials all year long have been telling people that we could have known something about the shooters if you knew something, and if you had told a law enforcement oofficial, we have established all of the procedures and the databases so that the person would be known, and the fear would be register and therefore, maybe we would have had a better shot of doing it. this is something that gets lost among the talk of, you know, the fighting terrorism and how to control guns. but it is a call of the culture change. it strikes me that it is one of the things that i heard in his statement yesterday, and he made a point to say it, dhs secretary jeh johnson says it, and i am
interviewing him monday to get out of him what are the big worries of the homeland intelligence and security officials and how those are either different or the lessons learned from the fighting of terrorism abroad way is a different beast, but the gun control and databases, and the crit critics of those who say that maybe none off that stuff would have caught this couple, so it is something about a culture change here it seems to me. >> and so this see something, say something policy. >> yes. >> and what would have been seen so far by this couple that would have indicated that somebody needed to the say anything. because they were described qui quiet, and adoerg parents of their daughter. the wife was tradition al and kept the guard up in a normal and accepted society. he was a little bit of the introvert, and i am trying to think what would have been suspect that would have raised a
red flag here? >> well, it is right to wonder, but it is the respect of the perspective, because of this arsenal and thousands of rounds of ammunition does not make you a terrorist, but a gun enthusiast. and if there is more than one thing, and somebody had to see something, it does not matter, but they are saying, let them f figure out if it is is a something, and if the hairs on the back are eping is the up, they keep saying it to americans over and over again, and speak up, speak up, and speak up, and it is, you know, going against a little bit of the culture, because the americans want to go about their business to be individuals and not ratting each other out, but if this is the new age of terrorism, and the fear is homegrown inspired people like this in their home on the computers and in their own digital world and not outside across society openly sharing the views, it is going to be hard to figure that out. >> and kevin, as you are well
aware of, there is no evidence that the pair was part of any larger terror cell. >> yep. >> and any indication that could change or anything that you have seen that might leads us to the direction of something differently? >> well, i want to know about the cell phones that they had that were meant to store sordid information, and were they talking to each other or ohers? i am not surprised by that. because this is the era where we are warned by officials that we will be seeing more attacks that are inspired and not directed. and we had the one in chattanooga of the person who went for the military target, but what we are hearing over and over again, and the terrorism-inspired, and they want t wanted to carry tout terrorism attack, they went to the workplace. and suddenly, it works into the workplace shooting meets a terrorism attack, and now everybody doesn't know what to make of it. how much does it matter?
it maters to the the law enforcement, because what do you do with the terrorism investigation, and suspect in the workplace shooting and mass violence case. but it is the new era that we are in and the copycats and the mass shootings are so common now, that i am shure that the officials are worried about, all right, where is the next one? maybet is is not going to be an attack at the capital building or the pentagon or times square or the targets that we think are going to be coming, and instead, it is the health scenter in the middle of california. how should this have been stopped? while we are all talking about gun control and everything else, this is a new era to require a lot of bigger this thinking, and going back to the culture change whether it is stopping it through guns, stopping it through law enforcement, and all of that goes back to the people changing their behaviors in the national movement to get people to change their behaviors. >> kevin baron, it is a time that you are talking about.
thank you very much. >> happy saturday. >> yes. you, too. >> and the ministry said that the air strikes have hit a oil field in syria, and the british military says they will hit isis where it really hurts. america on edge after the san bernardino shooting and how the kconversation has changed fr so many people. >> you don't think that it is going to be happening out here. >> i am actually shocked that i am not shocked. i am just wrong. >> you are desensitized to it. >> i pray for peace, peace on earth. we need to get it together as a society.
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protected by more protect ed area, and if you are looking at the more successful attacks that have occurred, we have disrupted a lot of them, but the dangers are there, and we have to keep things in perspective. >> president obama defending the isis strategy and giving the assessment of how big of a threat the group poses on u.s. soil. and in the meantime, there is a article titled "fear in the air, americans looking over their shou shoulders" and it is how americans are reacting to the fear of terrorism in "the new york times." and when we go to the movies, and concerts, and festivals, and when i walk into my office, it is a constant grinding anxiety, and it is getting olouder every
day. joining me is the contributor to "essence" magazine, and also susan van percie, our political strategist. >> there is that attitude that we are surprised it has not happened already. and we are hearing that it has been disrupted in new york city, but since 9/11. but when chris christie says that if san bernardino was a terrorist target, then every place is. and that is what everybody is connecting with outside of cities like new york and d.c. and l.a. and miami. >> what you think? >> i feel that living in new york, you are always on edge. and even downstairs was some banging in the cop course level, and is that something that i
need to be concerned with or not? and so americans are fearful, but we are looking to the leaders to provide some solutions for these types of problems, and that is why they r are elected. if we can see that after newtown i thought that we would see something new about this. and i think that when you see the babies sprayed with multiple bullet holes, the leaders are going to be saying, we need to have serious regulations in place so that it does not happen again, and the fact that we have not done anything, the conventional wisdom is well, if we didn't do anything then, we won't do it now, but we have time to correct this, and time to course correct. >> and rhetorically speaking, susan, has the president been strong enough. >> i don't think so, because he is choosing the words so carefully, and that is why donald trump is doing so well, because he is saying to the fear. and i don't agree with donald trump, but he is acknowledging
the way that people are feeling inside, and coming off of the terrorists, and another thing with the attack in california, there was a coordinated attack in paris, and that had people on edge, and we were alerted not to be traveling or be concerned to travel abroad and concern at home. so when, for the last decade, we have been told, we are going to be taking the fight there, so they don't come here. now, we can see somebody who look like they came here with this intention or perhaps not, but they carried it through pledging allegiance to isis, and the fight for the first time is really here, and that is what people sense, and the president is not reassuring enough. that clip that you showed, the president is a great speaker, and he is inspiring when he chooses to be, and he could have done so much more even with the same words just for effect. >> and are you starting to think that he is too measured or trying not the been a alarmist?
>> well, the bottom line is that tough talk won't solve the problemment but targeted legislation to close the loophole loopholes and to prevent the people who want to do us harm to prevent them from buying to a -- from buying an assault rifle at walmart goes a long way. so policy is way further than rhetoric at this moment. >> and it is on both sides, and this incident showed it. yes, we should not be able to, and people in a no-fly list, who cannot fly on planes should not go to buy guna and no-brainer, and yet we saw -- >> hold it, it is not going to be passing anything on that in congress. >> but at the aim time -- at the same time, the woman came here on a fiancee yauiance visa and carefully vetted and she was here for over a year, and when you look at the other refugees
and the ill grants coming into the country, we have to look at ta fact that democrats and republicans in congress need to pause and look at the vetting process, because the fight is coming here. >> and do you feel that the words that resultered by the top of the gop lists with donald trump and now ted cruz with how they would combat terrorism or the beliefs, and is that going to be a problem for the democrats? is that going to be ringing true the more that the types of incidents happen? >> i think that the bottom line is that we want to prevent these incidents and so whether it is a terrorist from a foreign country or somebody who wants to harm people working in planned parenthood, it is going back to the policy to put in place. the rhetoric is, yes, it is certainly something that we are paying attention to, and as soon as it came by that there were connections s ts to isil or tr abroad, it was terrorism, and last week it was terrorism, and
americans want to make sure that assault rifles aret not getting into the hands of people who want to commit acts of terrorism against planned parenthood or people working in or at a christmas party. >> yes. >> and level of common sense here. >> yes. >> and thank you, zerlina and susan. >> thank you. >> thank you. and this is a man who attended the very same mosque as sayed farook, and did he notice any changes in the man? i know how it is. you're all set to book a flight using your airline credit card miles. and surprise! those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want. luckily, there's a better way... with the capital one venture card. with venture, you'll earn unlimited double miles
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and what can you tell us about him? >> as far as the wife, i didn't know her, but of her, and i is a u her twice, and she was wearing the face veils, and i wouldn't be able to describe her or know anything about her, because she was his wife. as far as mr. farouq, he used to come to our mosque, and this is not the home mosque, and not the mosque in which he used to come as a local mosque. this is not the mosque na he used to pray in everyday. he would come occasionally for the prayer, the noon prayer which with is during his work schedule, and i want to clarify that, it is not the home mosque, but the mosque that he would come to attend frequently, but it is only two to three times in a week. and he was a nice guy like i said, a gentleman. he was very soft hearted is what he seemed. very reserved though. >> i am curious though, when you all congregate for prayers like that, is there a social element to it as well? i mean, is it common that you
will talk before or after the prayers or not usually? >> no, absolutely we do. i nknow the members of my community who go to the mosque and they know me, and we are friends, but with mr. farouq, i didn't have the opportunity to become friends with him, because he was a person that i became acquainted with and we would talk for a few minutes but i never had the opportunity to step through the line of being a friend and by mat relationship with him, and having discussed personal affairs and family issues if they were, and so none of us in the community developed that kind of relationship with him. >> but i am told that you did meet him prior to his getting marry ared. is that true? did you know him before ta some >> absolutely. yes, i had -- >> did you notice anything different about him after his wedding? because there are rumors or speculation that his wife may have been the one to quote
radicalize him. >> yes, i have heard it as well, but i am not sure. you know, he was the same to me before and after. i didn't see any change in him. i seen that he was happier, it seemed, but again, he was reserve and not a person to say openly, this is what is going on, but i know that he was really excite and happy when his wife was about to the give birth to his daughter, and i know it is a joy for him. >> and now, when you hear that farook had an entire bombmake ing garage, what do you think of tha that? >> well, there is no possibility to know that, because you can look at the curriculum of the mosque and the brothers of the mosque, and all of us united in america, and awe of rus against this radicalization, and i, myself, if i hear this conrer sags, i will direct it to the scholars and a minor level or
some misunderstand iing of the koran or something like that, i will give it to the scholars to give them the correct understanding, and if a person is telling me if i were to hear rizwan as i heard mr. are farook say i have bombs to do x-y-z, i would notify the officials without thinking twice, but at the level of questioning certain verses of the koran and say, i believe this or that, and then i would take it to the scholars to destroy this development in the mentality or the ideology even coming to exist, you know. >> and i am curious ni, nizam, worried you or others are worried to be a backlash of this? >> yes, very, very worried. this is the point of me coming to try to talk to the public and trying to e show our condolences on behalf of the community and showing that we are sorry, and we are also mourning with our
fellow citizens and the fellow community members. as i mention ed, this is my cit. i was born and raised here. i tack it personally, and it is something that affects me, and this is the way i dress and the way i choose to the dress and to fight the stereotype with the stereotype and if i dress like this, and showing that this is my dress and just because i look like the people who are on tv saying that they are going to be killing you and stuff like that, i am not one of the people. they have have hijacked my religion and my faith and they have are no right to talk about my faith and represent my faith at the rate of 2 billion people who accept the religion of is lam as a peaceful religion and teaches tolerance and not telling us to do violent acts. >> and i am so glad to have given you the time on our air. thank you so much for joining us. >> you are very welcome. and wrapping up the bombing campaigns in syria, some say it is a trap playing right into the trap of isis. i've smoked a lot
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welcome to weekends with alex witt. a couple of minutes past 1:00, and 10:00 a.m. out west. this is what we know about the san bernardino terror investigation. isis says on radio that its followers carried out the san bernardino shootings. the fbi is investigating the aks off shooting as terror, but the fbi also says that there is is no evidence that the couple acted as a group or te error cell. syed farook and tashfeen malik were both killed in the deadly attack, and in his weekly address, president obama said that we will not be terrorized. >> if we react to the two who committed these acts would be unfamiliar to what we do. and we have two reports from
california. blake mccoy is near the massacre in san bernardino, and we have melena at the home there in redland. and blake, what are you seeing today? >> well, the claims by isis that the followerser carried out the attacks is made on isis radio, and internet radio this morning, but the wording there is important that its followers carried out the attacks and not the fighters which is backing up what the fbi believed that these two acted alone and not in concert with the entire cell they aspired. and now, the fbi has hundreds of agents working this case, and some of them overseas tracking the travels of the two. we know he is from saudi arabia and she is are from pakistan, and also focusing on the two crushed cell phones found near their home, and computers found there at the home, and they are
trying to to find out what they can glean from the cell phones, and that is where they hope to find golden nuggets of information. if you look at the scene, people are coming up to drop off flowers and signs and candles, momentos of remembrance for the 14 people who lost their lives and the 21 people injured. if you look behind me with the camera, the site of the shooting is cordoned off by the police. you can see all of the cars in the parking lot that have been there since the shooting on wednesday, and police officer that i spoke with said that a few people have walked by this morning, and they have walked them in to get the cars out, and they are starting the process, and the first time that the people have returned to the scene of the massacre since wednesday when they were evacuated. alex? >> blake, any indication of where the investigators will go
next? >> i can tell you that out here in san bernardino, the scene has died down a lot. we are not seeing a lot of the fbi anymore walking around. they have taken any evidence that they deemed pertinent and either shipped it off to washington or taking it to the warehouses for further examination, and so sfas the next step of the investigation, it is now digging into the past of the people, and the digital footprint they left behind to hopefully find a emotive. >> okay. blake mccoy, thank you so much. and right from there to morgan radford who is at the suspect's home in redland. and how about the latest there, morgan, into the couples' motive. >> well, motive is the question, alex. we are are standing right outside of the couple's home, and this is a quiet and almost eerily unassuming neighborhood,ed a it feels like a typical california sunny day, but what was happening inside of this home is anything but typical. investigator say weapons and munitions and anything that you could need to create a bomb right here. and listen to what the family's lawyer had to say about the couple who lived inside.
>> there has never been any evidence that the two alleged were aggressive, had extremist views. they were totally shocked that this could take place, and as shocked as anybody else was. >> well, investigators found discarded cell phones and even damaged laptops, and it appears that the couple tried to erase the digital history, but what is interesting is that it is raising a lotf of questions of who they are, and where they came from and why they did what they did. we understand that syed farook was 28 years old and shy and introve introverted. he worked for the county health department for five year, and there the lawyers said that people made fun of him because of his beard, and so he went on line, and married tashfeen malik, and she came here to the u.s. through chicago on a k-9
visa, a fiance visa. we know they had a six--month-old daughter and with child protective services, so there is a lot of questions of why they did what they did and why they chose the holiday party as a target. alex? >> thank you, blake and morgan. and now joining me is the as s sis tant director of the fbi, and i want to start with you playing a piece of sound from james comey on the digital aspect of this investigation. >> we are spending a tremendous amount of time, as you might imagine over to the last 48 hours to trying to understand the motives of the killers and every detail of their lives. we are going flu a large volume of electronic evidence that the killers tried to destroy and conceal from us, and that we now have and trying to understand what they have done.
>> and how do you reveal somebody's online history? >> well, a couple of things that we should be talk about when we talk about the electronic analysis that is done. one is the actual hardware whether it is cell phones that have sim cards inside of them or the computers with the hard drives. so you have digital media that may have been physically damaged, but there are still ways with the right software applications for fbi analysts, digital forensic experts the the go through and try to reconstruct in many cases where they might not get all of the information that was contained therein, but maybe pieces of it. ed a disall-- additionally, you the opportunity to work with isps, internet service providers, to where they may been using the the urls and accessing different capabilities, web sites, et cetera, and this data may be
stored in the cloud somewhere on servers that they have not destroied, and certainly not touched or maintained by third parties. so there is numerous ways to go through the digital footprint to piece it together, alex. >> so the attempts to cover up the digital footprint, does that point to sol help of how to do this? >> this is all part of the operational security that they are getting from the jihadi web sites and if they are being push ed in a direction from somebody, and we have not made that determination yet, and if they are self-radicalize and we are learn learning about the ways that is done, and how to keep off of the radar and blend into the community, and from the digital aspect to avoid certain care iecare e yeier -- carriers and applications and trying to disrupt law enforcement on the back side of the investigation to try to piece it together. >> and we know that tashfeen,
the wife, she had to go through an intense process to get the visa, but some are saying it may not have done as thoroughly as possible. and would that have included some online history, and also, shawn, as we were talking to zerlina and susan in the last interviews here on the et is, look at how long it took to get a foe ito of her, and you would think that it would be right there in the visa office and accessible immediately. >> well, i am not an expert on the entire visa program, but there is is analysis done independently over the years where there is fraud in that process and not necessarily rerelated to terrorism, but people wanting access to the united states, and people paid to become a spouse to enable
somebody to come in, and so we recognize it as a vector by which people can exploit to gain access, but it is something that has to be really looked at as we kn know, because foreign fighters looking to harm americans are trying to gain access the united states, and it is a vehicle, alex. >> and shawn, george washington university on extremism they just put out a study on supporters of isis and said that the participants will never make the leap from talk to the action and from keyboard warriors to actual militancy, and how do the investiga investigators gauge at who is at risk for following through on what has been said or done online some. >> well, it is a great question, and one of the biggest challenge s that law enforcement is facing, and calling the people aspirational and talking about it, and those who are operational, and those who actually pick up a gun and build a bomb and harm americans, and that is the struggle of the nation day in day out, because
when you have information ta mb is talking about jihad or talking about harming americans and they don't like the united states, there are hundreds of thousands of people with hundreds of investigations ongoing, and you can't put the full surveillance on those people 24 hours a day/7 days a week, and that is the challenge for law enforcement to separate it out. it is a huge struggle. what i would add is that the community plays a large part in th this, whether it is the civic leaders or the the family member members or the school officials who see something and bring it for ward, but as we have seen here, there is not always that big giant flashing sign that says, i'm going to harm americans, alex. >> yes, bears worth repeating, if you see something, say something. thank you, shawn. >> thank you, alex. and now, isis is claiming the shooters to be followers of isis, and acknowledging it on a radio broadcast, but the fbi
says there no evidence that they knew the family or directed the act. in the wake of the attacks in san bernardino, liberty university is urging students to carry weapons on campus. in an interview, jerry falwell jr. encouraged the students to take gun lessons, and he is saying, let's e teach them a lesson if they show up here. and again, another reaction to the call for arms, and this one from the sheriff. it doesn't sound like much, but saving an additional 1% now, could make a big difference over time. i'm going to be even better about saving. you can do it, it helps in the long run. prudential bring your challenges
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that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. at this hour, donald trump is holding a campaign rally in iowa and moments before he spoke with reports and had this to say about the attacks in san bernardino. >> we have to start looking at the families now. we have to look at them very tough. the wives know, generally speaking, the wives know what is going on. i believe that the sister of the
killer, i watched her interviewed, and i think that she knew what was going on and ex -- >> what is -- >> excuse me. i think that the mother knew what was going on and she went into the apartment, and anybody who went into that house or apartment knew what was going on and they didn't tell the a authorities. >> nbc katy tur is in davbport, iowa, where mr. trump is going to be holding a rally. and katy, how is this resonating with his supporters in iowa given that trump has not laid out the concrete policy for dealing with terrorism. >> it is resonating really well with the people who say they are going to be voting for him. his poll numbers went up after the paris attack, and he expects them to come up after this, because he says that the leadership has not been strong and weak and ineffectual, and he
has been attacking farther and farther to the extreme, and getting more hardline on the position to say that he would restore the pay tri yat act and bring back waterboarding and target the family members, and no matter that the red cross calls it torture, and that f family members can be considered a war crime to target family members, but they want somebody who is unequivocal, and strong and black and white when it comes to fighting the terrorism, and comes to fighting isis and they don't want shades of gray or diplomacy, but they want somebody to go out there to keep them safe. they are scared here, and a lot of them believe that donald trump is the one who is going to be protecting them. they don't need a plan so far. they believe it is going to be coming on later on when he gets into the office and has the appropriate generals and experts around him, alex. >> katy, when donald trump makes a statement like the one we play played as we were rolling into you, and he says definitively
that he thinks that the sister knew exactly what was going on because he watched the interview, and thinks that the grandmother knew what was going on, what kind of pushback does he get either from the media or anyone around? does anybody ever challenge him on that kind of thing? >> the media challenges him. and they try to challenge him, but when you are talking to donald trump often times if you push him forward he will spin around you and hard to pin down to get the details, but the people around him certainly don't push back. and the supporters are not pushing back, and the biggest cheer lines, and at the rallies are lines that say he wants to bring back waterboarding and are lines that say he wants to target the family member, and so when you talk to a lot of the people, especially the mothers individually and not all of them entirely agree with him, and some of them say that i'm a mom and i don't foe 't know if theih that, but we need more details, but will it stop you from voting
for him and they say, no, regardless of whether or not they agree with the tactics, but a lot of people say that he is not only breeding more or the r terrorists, but the diplomacy and the plan with obama and what we have been doing fighting terrorism has not worked and they believe that donald trump is going to be fixing it. they don't see what happened in bush era and the invasion of iraq and afghanistan as being the republicans' fault, but the aftermath and all of the chaos ensued from pulling out our troops to be president obama's fault. alex. >> okay. katy tur in davenport, iowa. or iowa rather. thank you so much. and the word that the fbi is investigating this shooting as an act of terrorist has inspired other muslim clerics to show
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right now federal investigators are trying to filter information from the broken phones and wiped e-mail accounts that the attackers made clear they didn't want anybody to find. and investigators in san bernardino are saying it is being treated as an act of terr terror, but it is no linkage so far to a largeer cell. and now, does isis have the influence to inspire attacks without directly planning them. joining me is cal perry who is director of digital content. and could this be a signal of a dangerous turning point? >> yes, it could be, and the fear amongst the federal ofishes is that the keyboard jihadis are to put it out there and let it e reach the people in a position
of vulnerability, and maybe a group of people separated from society or finding it difficult to where they live, and they carry it forward. in the audio message they have put out today, they called these two soldiers of the caliphate ark and no mention that they had directed the attacks, and no information in the audio message that you couldn't read in the papers today, so perhaps it is a sign that isis did not direct it, but they are celebrated that it took place. >> they must delight to the fact that they can point to the level of inspiration which is almost as bad. >> yes, and this is almost beyond their wildest dreams, and es p especially the potential backlash of muslims in america, and this is exactly what they want happening. they want to drive a wedge in society. and look at paris attack, because it drove a wedge in the critical refugee issue, and still is. that is top story here in america, and the millions of people fleeing syria is off of the front page, and we are not talk about it at all, but how
muslims fit into the american society, and how has islam fit into the broader west esh society, and this is what they want. >> the lawyer who is representing the family of syed farook is putting some water on the findings so far, and he is making a shocking comment about the sandy hook attack, and let's all listen to this. >> it is not plausible to us that this particular woman would be involved in this sort of the hy hypercaricature of the sort of the bonnie and clyde crazy scenario, but there were a lot of questions drawn to sandy hook, and whether that is a real instance the or not, and we just don't know, but obviously, these things were found there, and how we got there, we don't know. >> i don't know. sandy hook part right, there and you and i have just started to work together and i am not often rendered speechless, however. >> this did it. and he is talking about the false flag attacks, and many
people around the world, and people in this country who believe that the u.s. government carries out the attacks to carry out a agenda, and it does play in certain places around the world and it is incredibly dangerous. there are theories about september 11th in the middle east saying it is an inside job by george w. bush, and so he is playing to the theorists about this type of thing if whether this happen, but it is not going to help us. >> and this stuff lives on the internet. >> and it just distracts from what we should be talking about. >> and i am glad that you had a talk with me about what we should be talking about cal perry are. thank you very much. and now, thet president is talking about the attacks in san bernardino, but is he saying enough about those who should be fighting terror. >> i call myself a control freak.
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with alex witt" and here is what we know. isis radio is saying that the followers carried out the shootings in san bernardino, but they did not say they direct ed the attack. the fbi is investigating the shootings that 14 people died as an act of terror, and the fbi is saying that there is no evidence that the couple acted as a group or part of a cell. tashfeen malik and syed farook were both killed in the deadly attack. and this morning, the president said in his morning address to the nation that we must stand uni united. >> we are americans. we will uphold our values and our free and open society. we are strong and we are resilient, and we will not be terrorized. >> joining me now is bob cue sac, the editor and chief of "the hill" and good to see you, bob. we have a president here sharpening the message in the weekly address and something that americans have been calling for since the paris attacks specifically, and what is behind the president's measured
approach to the whole matter. is he trying not to to be an alarmist? >> yes, i think so. and also, after the paris attacks, his first public comments were a little bit weak, and defensive, because he said that our strategy on isis is working despite all of the bloodbath in paris, and about a week later he gave a much stronger address, and the address was also, you know, aimed to reassure americans, because a lot of americans are fearful right now. they are fearful of isis, and fearful of getting shot by somebody who is not mentally well, and the president is making, i think a sound statement saying, hey, listen, we can't be fearful or else the t terrorists win. >> and the leading article on your home page examines the limitations of the counter terrorism action, and are the critics right, bob, that the president and others need to be more aggressive in the fight against isis, and are there any
other alternatives offed? >> well, the pendulum is swinging back to the anti-terrorist initiatives as opposed the privacy. in pollty, rand paul has been critical of the nsa, but now times are changing, especially in this kind of the case, and he in this typef of the rampage where we had no idea that this is going to happen, and these two people were not on anybody's wish list -- watch lists, i mean. and so the politics of this is changing, and i think that hillary clinton has been outspoken, and she is, you know, more hawkish than president obama. whether the parties can get together, and agree on something that will fight terrorism and also deal with guns, i think that it is unlike ri. >> yes. we saw a lot of criticism aimed at politicians this week for offering prayers instead of following through with actions when the shootings happened, and if anything, congress refused to
strengthen the gun laws. is there anything that president obama can do in the year that he has left? >> well, he is going to be talking about it a lot. he was disappointed in the wake of newtown that he did not pass anything through congress and critical of congress and the matchup of the nra versus the white house, and the nra won. he is going to be talking and it a lot. but as far as the sweeping reforms, no. some republicans are talking about the mental health bill moving through congress, and it is on the agenda for early next year. and now, once again, the republican bill that is offered by senator john cornyn is viewed as too weak by democrats, and at least, there are proposals out there, and if the adults can get together, and reach some type of compromi compromise, maybe something can get done, but alex, it is an election year, and any type of proposal that advances, even if
it is bipartisan is going to be taking criticism are from the right or the left. >> do you believe in the election year that the whole dynamics of things is going to change if it is proven unequivocally that the investigation is done, and it is an act of terror. >> yes, it has a huge impact on the campaign trail because of fear and powerful force in po politic, and people are fearful. candidates do want to reassure and say, hey, listen if i'm in the white house, i want to be the one who is going to be solving this problem, and whatever that is, whether it is gun, and of course, the democrats are talking more about or terrorism, and i do think that we have seen hillary clinton showing that she is distancing herself from president obama on foreign policy issues and combatting the terrorism, and not blatantly, but saying that isis cannot be contained and that is a shot at what the president had said earlier. so it is going to have a huge
impact on 2016, and hopefully, these tragedies don't happen again, but that is what the authorities are so concerned about, because these two were were not on any watch list. thank you, bob cusack. >> thank you sh, alex. >> and meanwhile, there is some radio report s ths that the brot claimed that the killers were isis supporters, and asked that they be hailed as martyrs. brian levin is a terrorist a expert and teaches criminal law are at uc san bernardino. what do you say that the isis did not conduct the attacks? >> well, t shg, first of all, io say that my heart and prayers goes out to the victims of the
attack, and first of all, to orchestrate an attack against the designed enemy such as the united states or aspire to have a defined attack against a enemy such as the united states. so whether they did it or the freelancers did it, they will claim credit. when the female assailant put her allegiance to al baghdadi the head of isis, that is reaching out. and now, isis is reaching out the other way saying, right on, thank you. it is notable that they didn't say our fighters or our warriors or the people we directed, but they said our supporters which gives them a little bit of the distance and the other thing that it might be is that it might be a ruse, and maybe there is a more direct conmek shun and they are trying to dispel it. we will see where the investigation goes, but at face value ice sis has two goals. one is to train and direct people in theatre to go back to
their home countries to commit attacks. if they can't do that alternative ti, they are telling the followers on the internet and in magazines if you can't come here, that is okay, because we'd love to have you in the calipha caliphate, but you go to do your attack where you know, at your home place. >> so we have heard from donald trump a short while agoing and -- while ago and he says that people knew that the specific attacks were coming, and didn't say anything, and other family members knew. and in an investigation like this, what is the protocol of monitoring close family and friend are -- friends? >> now, after the fact, this is what is going to be what they will do, they are going to be getting the communications closest to the relations of these people. it doesn't mean they are suspects, but whoever, and not just family, but whoever these people left a digital footprint with or tangible network, the
network analysis, and who they talked to and that is a large part of the investigation. where did they get the training or the bomb parts or the weapons and who knew, and great question, because in a sizable minority and not the majority bau minority of the cases is something called leakage and somebody will talk about something or give as hint s a h what is coming up. i think that the attack might not have been the intended one. what i mean is a that with that kind of the arsenal i think that they were looking to do multiple attacks or a broader attack, but with violent people they don't hit the first choice, but the most comfortable and easy choice. they will steal the volkswagen two blocks away rather than the ferrari a mile away. >> thank you so much from the university of california at san bernardino, thank you. >> you are welcome, alex. and could this fight against isis be a big mistake? that is next.
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now to politics. reak is hun from both sides of the aisle albeit in different ways. k kasie hunt is in rapid see dar, iowa where several of to hopefuls are ga her thissed before one big event and the caucuses. and katy, with the freedom summit, i know it got under way, but how big is this moment potenti potenti potentially? >> we are waiting for the candidates to come to freedom works summit here in see dar rapids, and we will hear from ted cruz, and dr. ben carson and carly fiorina, and mike huckabee, and really the people running in the con sservative le of the field, and that is of course, in the past couple of cycles sensed the winner of iowa. also in another part of the state, you have donald trump who held a rally this morning in a gaggle where he was aggressive in talking about freedom of
ownership of guns, and also, ted cruz made a very forceful argument into the second amendment but he would not go into the specifics of what he would do to change the attacks in the future. one thing, alex that we are talking about in recent day s i the metadata program that is eliminated in the freedom act. that is causing a to e ing ing n chris christie and ted cruz, and it is one area that some feel they can get to the right of ted cruz. and there is an argument if that program could have or would have e h helped the investigators figuring out how this shooting happened. >> it is interesting how you talk about that, the and the timing is interesting. thank you, kasie hunt there at the cedar rapids, iowa, summit.
and now, germany has voted to join the noncombat role, and so did britain, and they began bombing oil fields after that vote. and now, joining me is a counter terrorism analyst at the institute of the stau di of war. and what might be indicated and meant that this would be a trap by having bombing missions? >> well, eisis is actually explicitly spoken and written about the strategy to trap europe and more generally the west through directed and inspired attacks in europe and the u.s. and likely seen unfortunately like in paris and san bernardino. isis is hoping that attacks will provide safe and social backlashes against the muslims living in the west, and this is
going to be destabilizing and polarizing the society and ultimately help it to recruit. >> and you have said that the isis strategy is to polarize western societies by using the gray zone. what is meant by that? >> that is isis' phrase for the mass majority of the muslims and people at large who are moderate and who see what isis does as heinous and despicable, and isis wants to push people further to be for or against it. to make sure that individuals either need to join it or are fair game for ice sis' -- for isis' brutality. >> what do we need to strive for here? >> it is a global strategy to combat isis. it is not just in iraq and syria, but it is is building affiliates in central asia and northern africa that are becoming stronger each day and
giving them resiliency, and it is helping isis to inspire and direct the attacks against the west. >> how does the u.s. respond to the threat that isis poses now with social media? >> that is an extremely important and difficult threat to encounter unfortunately, because it is so diverse, and because isis a has the significant online population. it is two parts. one is actually to formulate counter messages, and then the other is to actually in the real world go strongly against the isis' communications infrastructure. >> and the gray zone that you referenced, how does the syrian refugee crisis factor into it? >> it is absolutely a part of it. isis is not happy about the mass majority of the muslims leaving the caliphate as a means of voting with the feet and is saying that they don't want isis' way of life, but at the same time, isis sees this as an
opportunity to exploit, to further pressure europe to stress european society, and we have seen already people in poland and hungary not wanting the refugee, because they they don't want the terrorism, and the more isis can get that narrative going, the longer it can xexacerbate the problem. >> thank you so much. and now, new analysis of the tamir rice shooting is being countered by the police. the family will explain what it all means next. latest generation of cadillacs. the 2016 cadillac srx. get this low-mileage lease from around $339 per month, or purchase with 0% apr financing. toto the nation's capitalut to support an important cause that can change the way you live for years to come. how can you help? by giving a little more,
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like stomach ulcers. a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. tell your doctor about bleeding, new or unexpected shortness of breath, any planned surgery and all medicines you take. i will take brilinta today. tomorrow. and every day for as long as my doctor tells me. don't miss a day of brilinta. attorneys for the family of tamir riles a tamir rice are speaking out about the moment the 12-year-old was shot by a cleveland officer in 2014. the video is among the items presented in the grand jury in the case of officer loehmann who shot the prepreen. let's bring in the rice family attorney. thank you for joining me.
let's look here at the statement which was released this week by the prosecutors. officer loehmann said that he saw tamir, quote, reaching into his waistband pulling the gun out. can you reconcile that statement with what you've seen on the video? >> no. and it's regrettable but it's completely irreconcilable with what any neutral, independent, objective observer would view even as a layperson. from what that video shows. and more importantly, the enhanced video which was just released within the past week has now been subjected to us to a biomedical, biomechanical engineer. one of the leading experts in the nation. that discipline is designed to address scientifically shooting an accident reconstruction. and it makes clear that this shooting was completely unjustified, unreasonable, entirely preventable.
the officer statements which were allowed to be presented in a very improper we think illegal way to the grand jury are flatly contradicted by the video evidence and by the expert analysis. this is a bombshell. and this needs to be presented to the grand jury. >> jonathan, can you share any of the other details that your experts found there? >> well, if you look at the video footage and the indisputable analysis of that footage, what it shows is that this encounter took place within one second. previously we had thought perhaps between 1.7 and 2 seconds but now this enhanced video footage makes clear that there are four frames at issue. each frame is a half second. within one second this police car arrives on the scene. and within one second officer timothy loehmann exits the car. the car is still moving. he has his gun unholstered.
his finger is on the trigger. he immediately shoots this 12-year-old child who is playing in the park. his hands -- his hands were not visible. there was no gun visible. and the officers have testified both that they saw a gun, which is completely incorrect and untruthful, that they saw him moving his waist. there is a movement of the arms, but the forensic scientific analysis establishes that that movement was a movement in response to being shot. this is outrageous, and it is demoralizing that we're here even discussing whether this could be conceivably in a civilized society construed as reasonable or justified. >> so, jonathan, officer loehmann has testified that he tried to shout, that he tried to warn tamir. what's your reaction to that? >> physically impossible. the windows were up.
there were no commands that could have been issued or audible to anyone when the windows were up. >> he was shouting from inside the patrol car? >> no. he shot -- upon exiting the patrol car while the patrol car was still in motion, his hand was apparently on the trigger. it had been unholstered. it's the only way that the shot -- >> right. >> -- we're talking about less than a second. >> but he says he was shouting while the windows were up. >> nobody could hear him if the windows were up. nobody could hear that. and the idea that there was a meaningful exchange between this officer and that child, that 12-year-old child, is preposteropreposte prepostero preposterous. >> i've only got a couple of seconds. are your experts going to be able to testify in court? >> we expect they should be presented to the grand jury. we've been assured by the prosecutors. we think the grand jury process
has been horribly compromised and that there are all sorts of anominalies taking place but weo expect and believe the critical evidence must and has to be presented to the grand jury. >> jonathan, thank you so much for talking to me. i appreciate that. it's a wrap of the show. we'll see you back here at noon eastern tomorrow.
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