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tv   Meet the Press  MSNBC  December 6, 2015 11:00am-12:01pm PST

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could make a big difference over time. i'm going to be even better about saving. you can do it, it helps in the long run. prudential bring your challenges this sunday morning, the terror attacks in san bernardino. did the killers this sunday morning, the terror attacks in san bernardino. did the killers get help? why did no one see this coming? and can we prevent these kinds of attacks from happening here in the united states? we'll get the latest on the investigation from the very top. attorney general loretta lynch joins us. plus, the role of islam, are we dealing with a perversion of the religion or a strain of it? we'll have a debate. also, terror and the campaign. do the attacks help tough-sounding candidates like donald trump pull away from the pack?
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>> every time there's a tragedy, everything goes up. my numbers go way up. joining me are rich lowry of the "national review," amy walter of the cook political report, elisabeth bumiller of the "new york times," and harvard law school's charles ogletree. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning, president obama will address a nervous country tonight from the oval office on the terror threat and what the administration plans to do to keep us safe. the terror attacks in san bernardino were the worst in the united states since 9/11 and they have both unnerved a country already jittery about terrorism and it's transformed the presidential race. there's so many unanswered questions. were syed farook and tashfeen malik planning a bigger attack somewhere else? how could no one know about their arsenal of weapons?
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and was this an isolated incident or a harbinger of future terror attacks in the united states. we'll get to all those questions with loretta lynch in a moment and we'll look at the implications for 2016 but we begin with pete williams who has been covering the story from the start and michael lighter, former director of the counterterrorism center. what moved the fbi to label this a terrorism incident? >> well, it's a combination of things. their extensive preparation, the huge supply of weapons and bombs. they built their bombs using instructions that are available from jihadist websites, including "inspire." they modified their assault rifles trying to make them into automatic weapons using instructions on the online jihadist sites. there's her facebook posts pledging support for isis. they attempted to destroy the electronic media, smash their cell phones, knowing the fbi
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would come back and try to look at all that, and then, of course, he had some contact with people that the fbi had been watching from time to time in southern california. >> let me follow up on that. he had some contact with the fbi which leads to the question and certainly going to be a question the attorney general has to answer which is why didn't -- how much was he on the fbi's radar screen? >> not contact with the fbi but contact with people that the fbi was watching from time to time. never people that were charged but people that came up on the sort of counterterrorism radar. but they say that they don't really know the nature of the contact. they only know that he had the contacts. remember, at this point all they've got is sort of in essence phone records, social media records. they say that he didn't have a lot of contacts with them, and one of the things that the fbi looks at in analyzing these things is what's the frequency of the contact? are they reaching out to the same networks over and over again, and at the time they didn't find that. they will certainly go back and say did we miss something? but at the time there were no red flags raised. >> michael, worst terrorist attack on u.s. soil since 9/11
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and no group is taking responsibility. how scary is that? >> well, it's scary because it fits the isis playbook perfectly. isis in some cases like paris may actually try to direct but what it's really trying to do is inspire. so it's directed activities are these inspired attacks, small isolated groups where they are, where they live that understand the culture and understand in part how to terrorize those communities. >> so what would you need resourcewise? if you had -- is there enough resources you could have, the fbi could have, that could stop syed gar rook and his wife from doing this? >> this is a multifaceted plan and you don't have enough resources. you have a small subset that is radicalized and a smaller subset that takes action and you can't cover everyone. what you need is offense overseas, defensive at home, and really deep engaged with these communities. >> even if they had the resources, there are legal limits here. the fbi can't just listen to
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everybody it wants to. there has to be a predicate that allows them legally to start monitoring. >> we just changed the bulk data collection of nsa. how much is that impacting the investigation? >> i don't think it was an enormous factor here. generally that deals with overseas calls to the united states but what it did was make the process more efficient. so there were no silver bullets there, but when you do have really tapped out resources to cover so many investigations, it can help you move through and discard some faster. so in that regard it may have played not a major role but some supported role. >> michael leiter, pete williams, thank you both. in what may be a preview of what the president is going to say tonight, president obama did address the investigation and terrorism in his weekly address which, of course, aired yesterday. >> it is entirely possible that these two attackers were radicalized to commit this act of terror, and if so, it would underscore is threat we have been focused on for years, the danger of people succumbing to violent extremist ideologies.
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we know isil and other terrorist groups are actively encouraging people around the world and in our country to commit terrible acts of violence, oftentimes haas lone wolf actors. >> for the latest on the investigation, i'm joined by the attorney general loretta lynch. welcome to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> we're four days since the attack. what can you tell us this morning about the state of the investigation and what we know now? >> well, this investigation is ongoing, it's wide ranging, it's very complex. certainly as you know, we are four days away from these horrific attacks. immediately the fbi began working with our state and local counterparts with whom we have an excellent relationship. this is an fbi investigation now because of the indications that we do have of radicalization. this is a terrorism investigation at this point in time, but we kornt continue to closely with state and local counterparts. atf marshals are on the ground and we're focusing on the victims of this horrific attack. four days, over 300 interviews. several locations searched. a lot of information being
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processed, being analyzed, and being gathered, and more to come. so what i would say to people is that this investigation as it has already been stated is a marathon and not a sprint, but it is one of great concern to the american people and so we're committed to keeping people informed. >> can you say definitively this morning they were both radicalized. >> i can't say definitively right now what led either of these two people to pick up guns and become murderers. i can say that that is the focus of our investigation. we're looking at everything we can find out about those two killers' lives, how they grew up, where they grew up, how they met. all of those things will provides guidance. >> just from what we can read in media reports, siyed farook was one type of person before he met his wife and somebody else after. is your focus on the investigation primarily on her. >> our focus is wide ranging and we can't limit it to one point in time. we are trying to learn everything we can about both of these individuals.
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>> what have you learned about her time in saudi arabia? >> you know, i'm not able to go into a lot of specifics there because we are working closely with our foreign counterparts to gather that information. it will be a long process. it will be an exhaustive process, and we are trying to learn as much as we can about her life before they met, after they met, and, frankly, after she came here as well. what we are trying to focus on again is what motivated these two individuals, what led them not just to commit the act but to pick this particular place. >> what -- do you have any evidence that says that they were planning another attack and that this just happened to be what they decided to do? >> obviously we have concerns whenever we see people who have large stockpiles of weapons or appear to be in the process of accumulating weapons and ammunition. at this point we do not have any evidence that they were part of either a larger group or a cell, whether they were planning anything else. that's at this time. what i will say is, again, we are continuing to run everything to ground we can about these two individuals. >> how cooperative has pakistan
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been in this investigation so far? >> i can't really characterize if he country except to say we work well with a number of our former counterparts. >> is pakistan one of those countries? >> pakistan is one of those countries. >> that you work well? >> we often work with local law enforcement counterparts not just here but overseas, through the intelligence community, through our military connections, through our law enforcement connections, and we're talking to a number of countries. >> have you learned more about her time on social media? there was a report in "the l.a. times" that perhaps she got radicalized, was interested in al nusra front and had started becoming more fundamentalist in her beliefs -- her own family said there was a 2009 version of her and then became different. >> i think what you see with comments from friends and family and the information from social media is a small part of what we're doing, what the fbi is doing and gathering everything that we can find about her to build that larger picture.
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everything that you have mentioned is part of that picture. at this point it's just too early to say, and so what i would say is i would caution people not to try and define either of these two individuals right now because we do not want to foreclose either any avenues of investigation or any other issues or motivations. >> there's been reports that he had some contact with people that the fbi had under surveillance. what is the threshold to become under surveillance by the fbi? clearly syed farook didn't meet that threshold. should snef. >> i actually don't want to use the blank term that individuals are under surveillance with whom he had contact with. he did have a number of contacts with individuals that had come on the fbi's radar screen for a variety of reasons. depending upon those reasons, those individuals may have been under review for any number of thin things, and he was someone who had contact with them. we are running all of that to ground. we are also looking into what those connections were, if any,
quote quote
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conversations, if any. all of that is part of what we're looking at. >> is that making you rethink the idea that the threshold should be lowered? >> no, i think every case is different. every situation is different. people con on the fbi's radar screen for a variety of reasons at a variety of times. we run everything to ground. if you see something, say something. report your kerns to law enforcement. they will be looked alt, they will be reviewed. something -- sometimes they're nothing, sometimes they're something. i would caution people not to try to define these two individuals right now. >> both of and director comey have said if you see something, say something. is there a line where people will be overly sus snishs. >> it's hard to characterize that. in this day and age people are understandably concerned. this horrific attack has people on edge and frightened. we lost so many victims and people were wounded. people are concerned, and we
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understand that. our view is that if you have concerns that rise to a suspicion that someone that you either know or see on a regular basis is evidencing a change in behavior or discussion, threatening talk, threatening language, this is very similar to workplace disputes as well in terms of what people can see. alert law enforcement rather than taking matters into your own hands. >> what -- why do you think the mother, his mother who was, of course, who they left their 6-month-old with, apparently didn't know they had a cache of weapons, didn't know they had a pipe bomb factory in their garage. >> i can't speak to that facet of the investigation. obviously it's something we're looking at very, very closely, and we appreciate everyone who has come forward with information about that. so i can't characterize the knowledge of any of the other witnesses in the case. what i will say is that this indicates the evolving nature of the threat that we are seeing. we have come from a time of the large-scale planned al
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qaeda-style attacks to the encouragement of lone wolves. ft. hood, chattanooga, to the encouragement of people to act on their own. >> but we have been hearing this for six years, that the threat has changed and it looks like we have no new ways to stop this threat. i mean, do we have to just accept the idea that this is the way we have to live now? accept the idea that a lone wolf inspired by a isis website could just mow people down. >> i don't think we should ever accept the idea someone can come along to take away our safety and freedom. we have to do everything we can to prevent that, and that's really a multifaceted approach. we've evolved a lot since 9/11 in terms of law enforcement capabilities, intelligence capabilities, military, counterterrorism. we have been watching this threat evolve for some time. we are now at a point where because we, in fact, have been successful at stopping a number of plots, the threat has evolved. we do see these lone wolf actors. we do see these encouragements for troubled individuals to pick
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up a gun and act out of this ideology. again, not sure which one they picked in this case despite the media accounts, but we do see this. we have to evolve as well and we are. we are reviewing everything about this case but also past case to see what are the common dleds. when we look back at the terrorism investigation begisin 9/11, one of the things that comes to the fore is in a number of these cases someone did notice a change, someone did notice a substantive -- >> we're hearing that already from family members. everybody is now saying that, and so how do you get people to talk about that before it happens? >> yes. what we tell people is alert law enforcement. we're on alert 24/7, and everything that you report will be investigated. we do it in private. we do it covertly. this could be a problem. it could simply be your neighbor having a bad day. but better be safe than sorry. >> let me ask you about the nsa program that had anta ended,
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the bulk collection. is that a resource you wish you had today? >> we understand the concern people have with not only protecting our values but our privacy interests as well. we think that the usa freedom act was a good resolution of that -- >> you still do? >> we're committed to working forward under that -- >> you don't want new reforms? more access? >> if congress wants to talk about anything, we're happy to provide information. we're committed to moving forward under the current act. that act does primarily deal with overseas individuals and contacts there, but every tool is important, chuck, is what i would say. it's all part of a piece here. >> when you and director comey after paris said there was no credible threat, do those words mean anything anymore considering the world we live in? >> i think that we review the information that we have, we try and tell people what we know at the time. in terms of the indices and what's on the radar screen, we do want to know if, in fact, we learn of an incident that's
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focused on a particular city, if we learn of long-term planning focused on a particular industry or infrastructure. we feel we have an obligation to let people know if we have information of a credible threat or not. these two individuals, self-radicalized, radicalized by others, that's what we want to learn. >> what are we going to learn from the president tonight and what calls to action is he going to have for either the country or congress? >> well, the president understands that the country is very concerned about this issue and i think what you're going to hear from him is a discussion about what government is doing to ensure all of our highest priority, the protection of the american people. i think he will talk about the actions that we've taken, not just since 9/11, but since paris, to help keep the american people and american interests safe. you may hear him call on congress to review measures and take action as well. but i think what you're going to hear the president say is to call on the american people to pull out the best in themselves and not give in to fear at this time. >> is this a time for a gun
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control conversation? >> well, i think we're in the middle of that conversation. we always are. when we have the incidents that we have seen, we're talking about this terrible san bernardino shooting now. a week ago we were talking about planned parenthood in colorado, and there are dozens and dozens -- >> is this a gun problem or a violence problem in the country? >> i think we have a number of issues here. i think that dealing with guns is one way to handle the violent crime issues that we have in this country. >> all right. loretta lynch, the attorney general. you have to leave it there. i know you're busy. thanks for coming in this morning. >> thank you, chuck. the terror attacks have reshaped the campaign and may have given another boost to donald trump. when we come back, two republican presidential candidates with two different views on how to fight terrorism. when we go to break it's important to know the 14 people who died in the san bernardino attack. here they are. ♪
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welcome back now. political respons welcome back. now for some political reaction to the attack in san bernardino from two presidential candidates, senator lindsey graham and senator rand paul from kentucky. senator, i want you to get to respond to something marco rubio said.
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a week ago we were still able to see the phone records of a potential terrorist cause. we held them. now you have to hope the phone company still has them. you have to argue with their chief council. by the time you get access and try to find out who they have been talking to before it's too late. you were on the forefront of trying to change this law. any second thoughts? >> well, you know, senator rubio were doing his job and in congress more he would know the program continues. the paris tragedy, this tragedy happened while we were still doing bulk collection, all bulk collection. also in france they have a program a thousandfold for invasive collecting all of the data of all the french, and yet they still weren't able to see this coming. so my question is how much liberty do we want to give up for a false sense of security? the government has investigated our program of collecting through a generalized fashion everyone's phone records in the country, and they have found that no terrorist case has been thwarted through this. >> what would you do if you were
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president tonight. the president is going to address the nation. what would you say to the country to make them feel safer because right now the idea of a lone wonderful doesn't make me feel any safer. >> i think what we have had in the past is the government has said we need to collect the whole haystack and the haystack is everyone americans' privacy. i would like to make the haystack smaller. i think we have to be very careful about who comes here from the middle east. i have introduced legislation to say from right now let's stop it. >> it's a version of profiling. >> people who want to come to this country don't have constitutional rights. once they get here, they do, but coming here is not a constitutional right. so we do as a nation have the ability and should have the ability to decide who comes here and when they come here. right now we don't know who is here. the woman that was admitted that ended up being married to this terrorist i don't think she was properly vetted. i think she came here and i don't think we adequately knew enough about her, and i think also there's some indication
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that the paper she filed to come here were a lie to begin with. so i don't think we're doing an adequate vetting process of those who are coming to our country. >> do you think this visa program, whether it's a fiance visa, tourist visa, any terrorist that has come here and committed acts from 9/11 to this woman have come here on some form of a visa. how in jeopardy is this program? >> this is where the big problem is. we have 11 million people said to be in our country illegally. 40% of them are said to have overstayed their visa. do we know where they are in there's 150,000 students here from the middle east. if 40% of them have overstayed their visa, don't we need to know where they are, what they're doing, are they obeying our rules? and so what i'm asking for, let's make the haystack smaller. let's say for a while until we can figure out who is coming, who is going, and who has overstayed their visa, let's have extra scrutiny and figure out what's going on because there's a whole segment of the world that is intent on sending people here to attack us. >> these folks accumulated quite
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the arsenal. is there any federal regulation you would spo are to try to regulate how much of an arsenal somebody could have in their garage? >> interestingly, they accumulated this arsenal in california that has ten-day waiting period, has no private sale of guns. every gun regulation that president obama has advocated for california has already and it didn't stop this. i think ultimately that the rules that you make for gun control, people who are intent on killing themselves aren't too concerned with the rules. law-abiding citizens are. the other thing to realize is that almost all these shootings, including this shooting, happened in a government building where people are not allowed to defend themselves. while it's not the ultimate answer, the ultimate answer would be no violence, part of the answer is saying we need to allow people to defend themselves. >> you'd like to get rid of these no-carry rules. >> yeah. >> senator paul, i'm going to leave it there. thank you, sir. stay safe on the trail. let me go to senator lindsey graham. senator graham, let me start with this with you. what do you want to hear from
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the president tonight? >> that he's going to change his strategy and come up with a regional army to go in and destroy the caliphate in raqqah, syria. that he's going to abandon what is not working. he's overwhelmed by radical islam in general. he doesn't have a strategy to destroy isil. i just came back from iraq with my 36th trip, and here is what i can tell you. the paris attack was highly sophisticated, well planned, very clever, took months in the making, very much like 9/11, and there's a 9/11-style attack coming to america, and i can tell you who is planning it, the leaders of isil and i can tell you where they're at, they're in raqqah, syria. so for god's sake, mr. president, change your strategy. come up with a ground force to go in and destroy the caliphate before we get hit here at home. that would be my advice to you. >> senator, it seems as if you can militarily take care of an al qaeda. you can militarily take care of an isis. we haven't defeated the
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ideology. the ideology is as strong as ever. >> right. >> given what just happened in san bernardino. what is your plan to defeat the ideology, sir? >> well, you start with the leaders -- you take down the caliphate. i'm convinced that the caliphate the size of indiana, if it were destroyed, it would be harder for -- >> we took down al qaeda and this just rose up, a new version of this, a new strain rose up. >> i can tell you this, that al qaeda has been placed on the run but not destroyed. isil is not the jv team. i cannot stress enough that there's a terrorist army in syria and iraq that wants to attack the homeland and we're not doing anything about it. so how do you defeat the ideology? you build up others. you reject rand paul. this flirtation with isolationism in the republican party is over. it's giving away to a more muscular foreign policy i have been advocating but i'm also advocating building up others. build a small schoolhouse in afghanistan to help a poor young girl have a say about her children will destroy the
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ideology more than a bomb. i am an internationalist. i want to help others, not just kill terrorists, but i can tell you there's a sense of urgency that the president does not possess, that there is a 9/11 in the making. i just came back from iraq. it is a matter of time until we get hit by isil, not some lone wolf attack but a hardened terrorist coming here to hit us hard if we don't hit them first. >> are there more resources you want to give the fbi? if the fbi -- >> yes. >> and do you think that if somebody like -- essentially the way law enforcement has described this, syed farook maybe had liked a facebook page. it was the equivalent of that, and when it came to people they were monitoring. should that have been enough for us to trigger surveillance or an investigation into him and if that's the case, how much more resources do we need? >> number one, i would set aside all these budget cuts that are going to devastate the fbi, the cia, and the nsa. sequestration cuts are not only
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gutting the military, they're gutting the fbi. so if i were president, i would set these cuts aside. i would reinstate the nsa program as robust as possible within constitutional limits, but more than anything else, if you get nothing else out of this interview, the source of the problem is in syria. raqqah is the headquarters of isil which is a lethal terrorist organization, now army. if you don't go after them over there, they're going to hit us over here and there's no substitute for that in my view. >> is there any new regulation on the purchase of firearms by anybody on the no-fly zone -- the no-fly list or anything else that you would support? >> gun control is not part of a strategy to defeat radical islam or take isil down. however, it is a problem back here at home. a million people have been adjudicated a danger to themselves or others at the state court level. i would pay to have those adjudications enrolled into the federal background system so we could detect people who are mentally ill before they buy a
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gun. that is a real problem. >> but on the no-fly list? >> you've got 40% false positive. let's make it better. if you're on a no-fly list, it has less false positive, count me in for that being in the background check system. but this is not the issue with california. did she get radicalized before she came here? is this a terrorist arranged marriage? is this a break through in terrorist efforts to penetrate the homeland? did they marry up a radicalized woman to a man in the country as part of a terrorist arranged marriage penetrating our system? that's what i want to know about california. >> and that's the scariest part of this potential story. >> it is. >> if that's what the case is. senator lindsey graham, thank you, sir. stay safe on the trail. >> thank you. coming up, one of the most divisive questions facing us now after san bernardino -- are we dealing with a perversion of islam or a legitimate strain of it? we'll have a debate. "meet the press" is brought to you by -- hey peter. (unenthusiastic)
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when we come back, we'll have a debate. does the terror threat we're facing grow out of a when we come back, we'll have a debate. does the terror threat we're facing grow out of a perversion of islam or does it represent an extreme but durable strain of the religion? and then he said it himself, every time something terrible happens, his numbers go up. why donald trump continues to surge and why that makes many republicans very nervous. >> how many events where trump is going down, this should be the end. a week later the polls come out, he's up seven points. what happened? and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective.
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emerged as a result of the san bernardino attacks. one is is that we'll witness a wave of anti-muslim sentiment in the united states. the other involves the role of islam itself in the attacks. is it a warped distortion of islam or does it tap into a strain of islamic thought. i'm joined by dahlia, research director, and asra author of "standing alone." let me start with this question for both of you. is isis preaching a strain of islam? >> i would say that isis wants us to think so, and i think that's the real danger here is that what isis wants the narrative to be is that they are the true muslims, that they are standing with true islam and everyone else, people like me and asra are the apostates and if we give into their narrative, we're actually doing their propaganda for them and i think we should really take that to heart and think long and hard
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about it. when dylann roof walked into a black church, he wanted to start a race war. we didn't let him do that because we didn't cast him as a representative of the white race. we didn't give in to his narrative. we did the exact opposite, and i think we have to be careful not to give into the apocalyptic narrative of isis that wants to start a war between muslims and everybody else. >> now, everybody seems to agree with that. you have argued though that muslims need to take back their religion from isis. how? >> we absolutely do. we are doing it. on friday i stood with a group of brave and courageous muslims and we stood and we provided a declaration to the world of reform. we are calling ourselves the muslim reform movement and we're opposing a very real interpretation of isl waislam t espouses violence. what we did is we walked through the gates of the islamic center
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of washington here in d.c. that's very much run by the government of saudi arabia and we posted our precepts on the door of that mosque because the problem is not simply in syria. the problem is sitting in the birthplace of islam, in mecca, saudi arabia, where this interpretation of islam has gone out into the world over the last four decades creating militancy groups from indonesia to now san bernardino, california's vicious attack. we have to take back the faith and take it back with principles of peace, social justice, human rights, women's rights and secularized governance. >> da dalia, when americans fin out the woman's own family said she became really religious and she changed, americans are going to see that as the more religious a muslim is the more likely they're going to end up somehow fighting for isis
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causes. >> i can understand that. i think those are real fears. we have to keep a few things in mind though. this particular couple we're learning more and more about them, first of all, they actually stopped going to the mosque about two years ago. another thing that many people aren't talking about is that they targeted the only muslim in the room and shot that woman four times. it was actually someone that used to go to their mosque. it's very hard to understand what inspired these people, but what we know broadly from research is that religion does not correlate with sympathy for terrorism. it's more the opposite. the more religious someone is the more often they go to the mosque, the more likely they are to reject attacks on civilians. >> i want to expand the conversation. we have amy walter, rich, charles, elisabeth. rich, why don't you fire away. >> it seems to me that this debate, whether islam is a religion of peace or not, really it's irrelevant for outsiders. it's for muslims to decide whether it's a religion of peace
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or not, and if enough of them do, then you cut off the oxygen to the radicals, but at the moment the extremists have significant financial, popular, and theological backing in the middle east, and that is an enduring phenomenon and it's one that's going to require a long ideological war to win. >> i'm sorry, i'm going to have to disagree with you. they simply do not have ideological, theological, or popular support, and this is a criminal organization that is funding their criminality with things like drug trade and selling oil. they do not have the ideological support that you're describing at all. in fact, it's quite the opposite. they have had a number of voices from across the spectrum say that what they're doing is completely un-islamic. they have no support popularly in terms of the general public. >> but yet -- >> they're still there but so are many other terrorist
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organizations and the primary victims are muslims. >> and to that point what speaks the loudest and speaks to your point is the blood that's spilling from australia to now california. i mean, how much blood has to be spilled until we recognize inside of our muslim community we have an ideological problem and we do have support. >> i think the blood is spilling in syria and it's mostly the muslims. >> there are hundreds and hundreds of followers of islamic state around europe and the u.s. the studies are showing this, and all you have to do is look at the conversation inside of our mosques and inside of our communities and you will hear it, and i hear it, and i have to say that i saw it in 2002, went to islamabad, pakistan, and met women who were supporting this ideology. i call them the taliban ladies
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auxiliary back then. this young woman in california would have been a star member of it. >> go ahead, elisabeth. >> after the paris attacks in this country we all patted ourselves on the back and said we have a much more assimilated muslim population here than they do in europe, but does this attack put that -- does that give you pause now? are we wrong about that? >> when we talk about a wall, right, to try to keep out this threat, the problem is that these are ideas, and they are filtering throughout the world, and it is naive and i think ultimately the reason why we as muslims stood on friday and went to the mosque and took these risks on our own lives is because we've had enough. like the world has had enough. >> that's an important thing. that requires bravery to do what she's talking about. >> but i'm hearing here that this muslim movement for women is what we have to focus on and women have been doing i think
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the right thing, having the conversations, talking to people about that, and i hate this idea that we as americans are going to say, we're going to have a sense at the border, some place else, figure out where the muslims can come to the united states. muslims have a right to come to the united states like every other people, and we have to be concerned about the gun killing, people are who americans, who are irish, who are english, who are all around the country. and so we don't want to -- >> just as we don't want to bury our heads in the sand about serious issues, a meme is circulating called the ostrich brigade used to describe all the people burying their heads in the stand. i call it the 3-d strategy, denial, deflection, and demonization of those of us who want to speak honestly about these issues of extremism and dalia, we have to do it. this is a woman called "women in
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the shade of islam" published by the government of saudi arabia. i picked it up in pakistan where the taliban ladies auxiliary and our young wife in california would have picked up an item like this and it puts out that ideology that is ultimately the toxic poison that is crossing all these borders. >> dalia, i want you to have the last word. >> i think it's important to understand isis' biggest enemy are ordinary muslims. that's why they're fleeing. that's why they are the primary victims of isis. muslims are the ones who want to do the most to defeat this ideology. it's important that we don't do their propaganda for them by giving them the legitimacy that they crave. >> all right. >> i just want to say one last word which is this is the declaration and we're going to share this with the world -- >> we'll show people -- >> this is the islam we want to see. >> we'll let people who want to see more, we'll put the link on
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our website. all right. thank you, asra, dalia, when we come back, the republican establish's great fear that the terror attacks have only helped the one man, donald trump. ♪ (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. toto the nation's capitalut to support an important cause that can change the way you live for years to come. how can you help? by giving a little more, to yourself. i am running for my future.
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as donald trump continues to dominate the 2016 field with, the republican establishment's low-grade anxiety is as donald trump continues to dominate the 2016 field, the republican establishment's low grade anxiety is becoming an all-out panic. in a cnn poll out this week but conducted before the san bernardino shootings, trump led the field with 36%. 20 points ahead of his nearest
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rival, ted cruz. ben carson has slipped down to 14%. jeb bush is down to 3%. now, the establishment republicans are beginning to say on the record what they had been whispering about in private for months. that donald trump at the top of the ticket could mean an electoral wipeout down the ballot and republicans are taking the responsibility of trump as nominee seriously enough that the committee that oversees next year's senate races laid out a seven-page blueprint for candidates on how to run with trump at the top of the ticket. advising them to grab onto the best elements of his anti-washington agenda. candidates should quickly condemn some of his comments including wacky things about women. trump responded to the memo on thursday. >> i don't say anything wacky about women. i have more respect for women than anybody would understand and i'm going to get people jobs and protect people and that's why every time there's a tragedy
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everything goes up, my numbers go way up. >> panelists here, of course, rich lowry, amy walter, elisabeth bumiller and charles ogletree. amy, let me start with that memo. i think freak out is setting in among republican establishment people? >> i think there's concerns setting in, and there's a lot -- a lot made about that memo, but i will say this, the one thing about it that they get to the heart of which i think all establishment needs to understand is that since very early on in this campaign, what have we heard from republican voters? they want somebody that's new, they want somebody that's fresh. they don't want an establishment. that's what -- if you want to beat donald trump, then you need to be the candidate that is not the establishment in your thinking, in the way you're presenting yourself, about you you present yourself as the most let's say -- the temperamentally prepared to be president. so the change agent, temperamentally prepared. that's what they're looking for and i thought "the wall street journal" quote, they got a guy in iowa to say i think exactly where this race is right now for
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a lot of republicans. he said nobody in iowa wants trump for president, but everybody in iowa wants somebody like trump for president. >> rich. >> that's what you need. >> it's clear he's not going to disappear in a cloud of pixie dust as many people thought and i don't think there's any clever way for the establishment to take him down. it's very simple, another candidate is going to have to find a way either to outmaneuver him or to just, frankly, beat him in the argument. and if no one can do that, yeah, you better man the lifeboats because there's some significant chance he'll win the nomination. >> does this mean it's cruz or christie tho christie, those are the two best foils to defeat trump because they have the bluster but restraint to go with the bluster. >> so far the three candidates who have dealt with trump most adeptly are cruz, christie, and rubio. they've all avoided him in one more form or another. cruz is creeping up on trump in iowa, and there's some internal data campaigns talk about that actually might have him ahead in
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iowa. does trump blast cruz and how does cruz react if he does? >> the irony in all this is that in that same -- i think it was in your wonderful publication, the "new york times," the initial freak out of the establishment, i think it was somebody from the '90s who said if the establishment takes out trump, they're doing ted cruz's dirty work for him and some people think cruz is just as bad of an lek trelectoral might nar trump. >> he's not at all popular in the senate. republicans say he may be too disliked to be a nominee, and there's a real concern about that, and i think the one way to go after trump maybe is go after him as a closet democrat, that he supported democrats in the past -- >> no, no. >> it's an idea. >> but that's not working. >> that's the democrats -- >> but he gave money to hillary clinton, he's got this new york style. you know, i offer it up. >> i think fitness for office
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and temperament. that seems -- >> that's the only thing. >> i had one conversation -- >> trump has zero chance of being successful. >> if you say so. >> he's going to lose. >> when? >> he's going to lose now because people were attracted to him because he was not elected to an office. he was not a politician. and like you said before, he was a person that people say, wow, he has ideas, but the more and more you listen to donald trump, the more you have the sense that he is not the person that's going to run the country, and i have strong views. if the republicans wants to put him up, fine. >> rich, what would william f. buckley be saying about trump today? i'm always cautious about what he would say because he had such an inyo sin kratic mind. i think he would be appalled at the crude pop limp but would like some things about him that would surprise all of us. can i say, chuck, i think the guy who gets the least chatter given how high his chances are
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of winning the nomination is ted cruz. i might prefer to be him than anyone else at the moment. he's a favorite to win iowa i believe and he comes -- >> if he wins iowa -- >> head of steam. >> he'll be the delegate leader by the end of march. i think that's pretty clear, but guess what? we still have less than two months ooto go. in 45 seconds we have the end game segment and the new renewed old debate over guns in america. >> stay tuned for "end game" brought to you by -- doers built this country. the dams and the railroads. ♪john henry was a steel drivin' man♪ hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. and all this doin' takes energy -no matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of doin' up in here. or what they're doin'. what the heck's he doin? energy got us here. and it's our job to make sure there's enough to keep doers doin' the stuff doers do... to keep us all doin' what we do.
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"end game" time and the debate over gun control was reignited after the san time now for "meet the press" end game brought to you by boeing. >> debate over gun control was reignited after the san bernardino attack. "the new york times" ran it's first front page editorial in 95 years calling for greater gun regulation. on the other side of this debate, republican presidential contenders didn't hold back when it came to the issue of guns. >> if you look at paris, they didn't have guns and they were slaughtered. if you look at what happened in california, they didn't have guns, they were slaughtered. they could have protected themselves if they had guns. >> they're still out there talking about gun control measures as if somehow terrorists care about what our gun laws are. >> people in the media ask at the behest of democrats, isn't it insensitive for to us do a second amendment rally following this terror attack? let me tell you something, i
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really don't view our job as being sensitive to islamic terrorists. >> well, elisabeth, it was your publicati publication. you didn't write the editorial but apparently this issue rose to the level of warren harding's presidency -- >> it was a decision of the publisher, not of the news department. i'm of the news department. but, yes, and people have been asking how effective it is. it's not for me to say, i just want to point out that warren hardings, the times assailed his nomination for president and we can see how -- >> how effective that was. >> right, right. >> and i guess that's a question i have heard from some democrats quietly saying, you know what? push for gun control but not now. you're going to get lost and lose the argument. "the times" editorial actually made it harder. >> i think we may lose the argument but i think we have to talk about gun control. one of my best friends in
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mississippi, dennis, he has guns. he's taught his son and daughter how to use guns. they're locked in a case, and that's what gun control is about. there's no way you're going to get rid of the second amendment, get rid of the first amendment, and people have to understand how important this is. but i think that when they see more and more killings we have to figure out what we're going to do about it, and i don't think the criminal justice system now has an answer. >> i can tell you, amy, i want to read you a quote. here is a gentleman quoted in "the times" about, you know, i believe my government is supposed to protect me but it has let me down. i resent having to defend myself. i should not have to but at this point i don't feel like i have a choice. more americans and my own anecdotes of people -- of a friend who never would have bought a gun, thought about it, and is thinking about it. >> feeling scared. >> feeling insecure. >> absolutely. this deep insecurity has been going on for a while. i picked it up in 2014 sitting in toe cuss groups of women
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terrified their children couldn't be safe at school, terrified about what was happening in ferguson and other places. the real issue i think on the debate about this is the messenger more than the message. this has to come from, if we want to have a real movement on this issue for those who support gun control, it has to be coming from the republican side. as soon as a democrat or a liberal organization opens their mouth and says we want to see this, it's going to go over the heads. same way on the abortion debate. if they want to make a change, it can't come from a republican. it's going to have to come from a democrat. >> rich, it is sort of -- it's clear, anytime there's been one of these shootings, more people want to go and buy guns. i think the question is, are we having the wrong debate? should it be about weapons of war versus guns and if you divide the debate differently? >> i don't get this debate at all. we have it after every mass shooting and now a terror attack and the proposals that are talked about almost always have nothing to do with the specific event. this couple in california, they didn't get their guns at a gun show. they weren't on the terrorism watch list.
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they passed a background check. so you can do all of that and it would have made no difference, and the idea now we're going to fight terrorism through gun control i think is just utterly fatuous. >> but we had assault weapons -- >> legal. >> but there is a proposal to get rid of assault weapons and, you know, a lot of democrats ask and a lot of people ask why is it necessary for people in this country who are not in law enforcement to have assault weapons? >> well, the ar-15 is the most popular rifle in the country and as rand paul pointed out california has rules against assault weapons. it's just those rules are so technical and have to do with cosmetic features you easily get around them. >> this is not a debate we're going to end here but the show has to end. i want to thank you all. it was obviously a very busy show. that's all we have for today. i wish we could go another 30, but my bosses won't allow it. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."
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violence erupts in a courtroom. tempers explode on a bus. teenage girls beat each other bloody. >> we want to see more of this. >> and customers attack a restaurant staff. when tension, anger, and fear boil over -- >> he's not even resisting! >> -- it can turn into uncontrollable rage.

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