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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  December 8, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

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>> that is facenating. thank you for joining me. i'm looking forward to that moment. hope it works out well. that is all in for this evening. rachel maddow show starts right now. >>, that, my friend. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. if you are into cars that go fast, there are a lot of different kinds of auto racing in the world. there is dirt track racing which is exactly what it sounds, racing on a dirt track. there is rally racing which is car racing out in the world. sometimes on regular roads that you might otherwise drive on as a normal person. there's drag racing. we all know what that looks like. there are sprint cars. some of which look like souped-up go carts with that giant wing on them. and some sprint cars don't have the giant wing so they just look like souped-up go carts. same goes for what they call midget cars. no offense. in there country, the most popular form of car racing is
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the huge milt billion dollar industry that's called stock car racing. that's what nascar is. that's what the fc stands for in the middle of nascar. stock cars. in the rest of the world though, particularly in europe, the most popular form of racing is not stock cars. it's not nascar. doesn't look anything like nascar. it's formula i. it is the racing of these purpose built megaarrow dynamic ingle seater basically spaceships with wheels that formula i drivers regularly get up to over 200 miles an hour. it is a huge international phenomenon even if an otherwise car racing obsessed american public has always found it to be a little weird. and every popular zillion dollar sport has its schaefer personal scandals around the sport and its leadership. but formula one racing had a personal scandal right up at the top of its governing body a few years ago that was so weird,
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that was so flagrantly salacious and bizarre, that i think it not only reassured american racing fans that formula i really is dined of weird. i think it probably attracted more american attention to formula i than anything else in american news in decades. and that's because it was a sex scandal. a particularly lurid sex scandal involving this guy. his name is max mosley. at the time, he was the head of the international car racing organization that governs formula i. and a few years ago in 2008, a british tabloid called news of the world got their hands on what they said was a five-hour long videotape showing max mosley and what they described as a said so masochistic dungeon in london having a protracted and by all accounts very satisfying several hours long paid encounter with five women at once.
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and british tabloids are not known for their restraint. news of the world went ahead and uploaded the video and then published this had very reserved british tabloid headline f 1 boss has sick nazi orgy with five hookers. in the video he was seen shouting in german while whipping some of these women who were dressed up in striped concentration camp style uniforms. other women on the tape were wearing german military uniforms. there was an unfortunate scene that reportedly involved mr. moseley being trusted up and picked over by a german speaking woman as if we were being deloused. ultimately the news of the world had to take down the video and pay max mosley the head of formula one racing $120,000 roughly plus his legal costs when a british court found that paper had violated his privacy
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with the nazi orgy story. despite him winning that legal case, the videotape and the tabloid allegations about his nazi sex orgy created a fairly long-standing image problem for formula i as you might imagine not just because the sport's chief executive had this particular part of his private live made very public but it was specifically because of who that executive was. it wasn't just that he was the head of formula one. it's that his name is max mosley, and max mosley is the son of one of the most famous far right figures in all of british political history. his father was sir oswald moseley who founded the british you know of fascists in 1932. so in the lead up to world war ii oswald moseley was a great admirer and close friend of benito muse lynn know the leader in italy and general franco in
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spain. he and his were frequent visitors to flaz zi era germany. they were personal friends of hitler. he and his wife were actually married in germany in 1936 at the home of joseph geshls. they got married at his home. the nazi propaganda minister. hitler was one of their wedding guests and sir oswald moseley saw it as his job to not just keep britain from going to war with his beloved germany he saw it as his job to organize a complementary fascist movement inside the uk. he formed this organization as the british union of fascists in '32. they changed their name to the union of fascists and national socialists. national socialists as it nazis. and believe it or not, it was a fairly popular movement. they had tens of thousands of members in the 1930s. oswald moseley modeled himself in his own leadership style and
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most of his policy proposals specifically on muslinfully. there tended to be violence at moseley events and rallies, a lot of which the british fascists tried to provoke themselves because they thought it was a healthy part of their political image and gave them a reason to form a sort of uniformed guard to police their events alongside real british police. their paramilitary guards wore distinctive black shirts which is how they were described in britain even to this day people talk about them as the black shirts. famously in 1936, oswald moseley led a march of his british black shirts through a mostly jewish neighborhood. in the east end of london. what resulted was what they called the bat of cable street. where oswald moseley and his fascists basically got the snot beaten out of them when east london rose up against them and beat them up. but oswald moseley's movement,
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it was a big movement. it was obviously anti-immigrant, anti-semitic, it was populist. moseley wanted to replace the parliamentary system of government in britain with a government that was based on business interests, that was based on the idea that business interests were the real interests of that country and business interests and reorganizing the government to serve business interests, that would be a way to get stuff done faster and more efficiently. this was their flag. you can see there on that banner, a sort of lightning bolt inside a circle. i think even as that iconography without studying it, it gives you an indication of the kind of fascist cult of action and masculinity they were trying to evoke. the british union of fascists, moseley's group the black shirts were banned in britain in 1940. and max mosley's dad sir oswald moseley ended up spending three years in world war ii interned in the uk as beak an enemy of
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the state. he spent that time in prison as dollars max mosley's mother. but the this is not long lost history in britain. they still commemorate the battle of cable street in london. there are still pop songs in britain that reference iroswald mosly as his black shirts. when the head of formula one race aghis son max had his hooker preferences broadcast all over britain, max mosley denied there was anything nazi specific about his prisoner fantasy delousing hooker orgy concentration camp fantasies. he said he and the women were speaking german as a matter of convenience given the languages of the ladies he had engaged for services that day. but in britain, they go really did have a real and fairly popular fascist movement run by moseley's dad. and it was a long time ago, but it is present enough in british consciousness the news of the world knew exactly how that
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would ring when they put that headline on their front page. sick nazi orgys. fascist is not just an epithet. it is a proper noun that means a specific thing. it's a real thing. it's not always referring to ancient history. in france, it was 1972 when the jean-marie le pen founded a little party called the front nagse, the national front. la pen started running for president almost immediately after founding the national front and for a long time he was dismissed as a fringe anything in french politics it, almost like a clansman or something like that would be seen in this country. he's a holocaust denier who was dismiss the and fined for dismissing nazi concentration camps as a "detail in history." but he kept running this anti-immigrant populist unan pol jettic far right party in french politics. and then six months after 9/11,
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jean-marie le pen was almost elected president of france. there were a number of leaders and a number of parties running in the french national elections that year in the spring of 2002. it ended up being not just a shock across europe but almost a worldwide shock when in the spring of 2002, jean-marie le pen came in second in the national elections. that put him in a two-man runoff for the presidency of france. spring of 2002. >> the french say it's a political earthquake. presidential jac chirac in the lead with 20% according to exit polls and defying all expects jean-marie le pen a strong second with 17%. no one ever expected la pen to get this far. >> i just am flabbergasted that la pen could be in a second round. >> 73-year-old la pen, founder and head of the extreme right
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national party. his platform, anti-immigration. a message that speaks to french concern over increased unemployment and violent crime. he once described the holocaust as "a detail in history." france a country so showing increasing social intolerance. in the past three weeks, more than 300 incident. >> a week of mastiff protests in cities and towns across france. people denouncing the politician. la pen would close the door to immigrants, take france out of the european union. he's been accused of being racest, anti-semitic and anti-america. shock at his win has swept across europe and britain. >> those policies i find repellent. i believe many people right across consist the world do. there is no future in that type of narrow minded racism and nationalism. >> in that first national election after 9/11 in france, yuan marie la pen did not inwith the presidency but he did get to
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the final round. he was in the general election. now, this week, in the first national elections in france after what many people have been calling the french 9/11, the attacks in paris three weeks ago, this time it's jean-marie le pen's daughter maureen who is now the leader of her father's political party. maureen now leads the national front and in the elections france just had this past weekend, her party, the la pen party, still a far right pseudofaist party came in first place in france. francois hollande got all sorts of accolade 0 for his leadership in the attacks. but the party that benefited the most and is now in first place in elections across that country heading into the runoff this weekend is the party of jean-marie le pen now run by his daughter. maureen la pen is more careful about saying things like denying the holocaust.
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but it's the same politics. it's the same modern ant anti-immigrant, anti-and the semitic, xenophobic authoritarian modern sue cofascism. >> we never had an effect well organized national fascist party in this country. the way they want have had in decades past and in decades present in countries like britain and france that we think of as such close al plipz here in the united states when the term fascist gets used it's talking about other countries, ancient history or used as a sort of generic right wing epithet that people use tocrit six politicians on the edge of mainstream american political thought. but now, with the republican party's presidential front-runner proposing that all muslims should be banned from entering the united states that perhaps there ought to be a national registry of muslims that we ought to looking into muslims having to carry
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government i.d. cards that state their religion, now, the word fascist is being used to describe this ascending and leading republican republican politician. but the word is not being used casually or just as an insult from the left. now that word, that incredibly loaded word we do not associate with the real american politics is being used by other conservatives by other republicans to talk about donald trump. jeb bush national security advisor, john noonan "forced federal registration of u.s. citizens based on religious identity is fascism," period. nothing else to call it. he misspells fascism but i think i know what he means. max boot is a very well-known right wing national security guy an the council on foreign relations. "trump is a fascist and that's not a term i use loosely or often but he has earned it." there's been enough of this recently that cnn ran a sort of
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roundup article on why some conservatives say that trump talk is fascist. the roundup included this tweet from radio host steve dees. if obama proposed the same religion registry as trump, every conservative in the country would call it what it is, creeping fascism. one of the no, times resident conservatives published this last week, is donald trump a fascist? the answer yes in perfect "new york times" understated style trump may indeed be a little passistic. times calling this who wrote that last week, i think seemed to have spooked himself a little bit having said that out loud. he wrote that last week and on monday published another column beak rolling back the thesis a little bit. several hours later, donald trump announced his no muslims are allowed to come to the united states plan and that led to one of the greatest tweets of all time from that columnist. okay, i concede i picked the
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wrong day to walk back my column. >> i guess i was right the first time. and again, this fascism allegation is not coming from the left. this is coming from the right. it's coming from inside the republican party and from within mainstream conservative thought. and now it's on the front pages of mainstream american newspapers like this from the philadelphia daily news today. but fascism is not just a word. it's not just a way to insult someone with whom you disagree. it is a spec form of far right politics that involves a sort of narcissistic cult of super man action around the leader of the party. fascist political gatherings tend to encourage or at least expect a little violence around the edges particularly against counter protesters. fa yisic leaders are macho and chauvinistic. xenophobic to people they
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portray as outsiders or as weaklings they can denounce. they are completely intolerant of criticism and when it comes to policy proposals and philosophy, they're not known for nuance. the great leader just gets it done because he's great and great men do great things. trust in the great leader. that's basically a fourth grader's definition of fascism. that's basically what it is. it is a real political organizing principle that has been the founding principle of modern political movements in other countries but not usually in ours. other countries have grappled with this since world war ii and in modern times including france grappling with it now. but now here in this country, it's not just critical observers and liberals and journalist who are calling this moment in republican politics a flirtation with fascism in had country or a manifestation you have fascist political movement in this
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country. now that assessment is even coming from the republican party itself. watching the republican party come to terms among themselves is part of what we're going to be talking about in tonight's show, including the question of whether or not mr. trump is setting himself up to be potentially expelled from the party. whether he's trying to get i can canned out or whether they will keep him within the party and there be normalize these kinds cuff ideas. now to the rest of us watching this political process for those of us how are voters and those of us who are in the press and write about and explain the stuff for a living, for the democrat setting themselves up to run against whoever the republican nominee that has trump leading by a prohibitive marge. we have to decide whether we're comfortable using this word. weather fascism is too over the top to use in this context of our politics right now in our country or whether it helps because it's accurate 0 basically describe this as
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america's iroswald moseley moment. democratic presidential candidate martin o'malley committed himself on the subject already. he tweeted donald trump has removed all doubt. he is running for president as a fascist demagogue. as a fascist demagogue. another democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders is here tonight live for the interview 0 give us his response. stay with us. can you help santa with a new data plan? sure thing... uh right now you can get 15 gigs of data for the price of 10. that's five extra gigs for the same price. looks like someone just made it to the top of the nice list. in that case, i want a new bicycle, a bike helmet, a basketball, a stuffed animal that talks when you squeeze it. and... yes, yes. i got your letter. we're good. oh. okay i was just making sure. get 15 gigs for the price of 10 now at at&t.
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>> so we've got much more on the prospect that the republican front-runner donald trump may be trying to get himself kicked out of the republican party and out of the republican presidential primary process. that ahead plus my guest for the interview tonight is democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders live here in studio with us next. stay with us. those new glasses?
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16 grams of protein and 23 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in. joseph p. overton is a famous conservative from michigan. and the political science idea that is named for him is called the overton window. the idea of the overton window is that there's a fairly narrow window of proposals in any particular policy area that people will take seriously that wouldn't get you written off as a kook. the way to expand that window is to advocate super extreme positions which change account realm of what's politically possible because after something super nuts has been floated thereafter, slightly less nuts positions start to look acceptable and moderate by comparison. and you may never have herd of joseph overton and his window but you most certainly have heard the republican presidential campaign this year
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not just flinging the window open but shattering all its glass. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. we have no choice. we have no choice. we have no choice. >> what republican presidential front-runner donald trump is proposing to ban all muslims from entering the united states, what he is proposinging there is so crazy, so unthinkable as real american policy, but might it have an effect on other people's politics? the effect of him, even on just
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this issue because is he so far out there, is the effect of this kind of statement to make the rest of the radical ideas from the rest of the republican field sound comparatively moderate? after mr. trump's ban all muslims proposal, candidate jeb bush reacted by calling mr. trump unhinged. however, that would be the same jeb bush who says we should only allow refugees into this country who are christians. still though, not as bad as trump. ben carson today also denounced trump's ban all muslims proposal saying we do not and would not advocate being selective on one's religion. the same ben carson says no muslim could or should be president of the united states on the basis of their religion. so still not as bad as trump? chris christie today denounced mr. trump's proposal saying we do not need to endorse that type of activity nor should we. the same christie who proposes accepting syrian refugee orphans under the age of 5 because they
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may not be vetted well enough. the 5-year-olds might it be terrorists. after all, they're from syria. still though it's not a -- in the same way on muslims entering the united states. maybe the 4-year-olds could arguably till get in. marco rubio today calling trump's ban all muslims proposal offensive and outlandish, the same rubio who was one upping trump's promise to shut down mosques. he would shut down not just mosques but cafes, diners, any place. still though now that donald trump wants to ban au muslims from the united states that sounds come teartively moderate. sure, what marco rubio is proposing is ridiculous. that's not near as ridiculous as what donald trump proposed yesterday. right? the idea of the overton window of using people on the political fringe to change the terms of acceptable debate, that's an idea hugely influenceal in
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conservative politics since overtop thought it up making radical ideas seem acceptable by advocating for the unthinkable. what's new is using not some figure of the fringe, not some higher vanguard of crusadesers to do this on purpose. what's new is having this done by your party's prohibitive presidential front-runner. what's the new normal in the republican party in terms of minority bashing politics when this campaign is all done? joining us mou for the interview, is bernie sanders. senator from vermont. candidate for the democratic presidential nomination. senator sanders, it's really nice to have you here. >> great to be with you. >> you are not a pundit. >> call me many things but not a pundit. >> nobody's ever called you that. i know you don't necessarily like weighing in on the republicans and their process. i have to get your response to this. >> let me give you my perspective on what's going on the' different perspective i think than other people have. you have an enormous amount of
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fear and uncertainty in this country. and it's not just from san bernardino or from paris. i think what you've got are millions of people hope are in trouble today. they really are. they're confused. they're working longer hours for lower wages. they're seeing productivity going up but their kids are worse off economically than they are. they're looking at a campaign finance system in politics and see corruption, big money buying elections. nobody in congress is listening to them. they're out there alone. they're in trouble. they need help. what's the cause of their problems? is it wall street? is it big money? is it massive inequality in terms of wealth and income? no one talks about that really. then have you demagogues like trump come along. he says i know what the cause is. a few months ago was mexicans coming to this country, they were criminals or rapists. today it is muslims. you all remember how many years
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ago, we were younger, it was uppity women trying to take our jobs as men. it was those gay people who wanted to make everybody homosexual in our school system. blacks wanted to take white jobs. that's what demagoguery is about. it is to ob fuss skate the real problems facing our society and find somebody you can blame and rally the american people. that's what it is. it's the immigrants or the muslims. we've got to take them on. and i think my main concern is because i worry about this. it's real. you see the people standing up there and applauding. how do we get to those people and say why do you keep voting for people who are giving more tax breaks to billionaires going to send your jobs abroad, not going to let you form a union, mot going to allow your kids to go to college? why do you keep voting for these guys? because they pick out a victim whether it's blacks, gays, whether it's women, whether it's immigrants, whether it's muslims who we can pick on.
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what our job is and i think hard about these things, how do we get those people to stand up for their own interests. anti-i dote to trump is a very strong progressive agenda that says yes, i know you're angry. you should be angry because you're working longer hours for low wages. you have a right to be bitter. don't take it out on the muslims or latinos. try to help us work together to create a country where your kids and you can have a decent standard of living. it has to be a bold and radical agenda. no more same old same old. i don't mean to be political here. people are hurting and angry and they want something to be able to stand up and fight for. that's what i believe the antidote is to trumpism. >> is it dangerous enough in the short to medium term that we need to do something as a country, people who disagree with what mr. trump is doing, we need to do something to beak be protective toward muslims to be protective towards immigrants?
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>> absolutely, absolutely. what we have got to do immediately is say that racism and xenophobia is totally unacceptable and we will stand with the 1% of our population who are muslims for undocumented people in this country. absolutely, we will stand. i intend in the not too distant future i think with keith ellison, the only muslim in the united states congress just on this issue. we can't allow racism and xenophobia to gain traction. what does worry me, ever since trump has been opening his big mouth, you're seeing all these bitter people, late yent racists becoming emboldened. you're seeing ugly stuff happening around this country. >> do you think he has moved the window of what's acceptable in terms of racist and demagoguic politics in the republican party. >> do you think he's made things that would otherwise otherwise have shocked people seem moderate in comparison? >> if you're a republican politics and see this guy saying
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crazy stuff and going up in the polls you're going to say equally crazy or maybe a little less crazy stuff. i think the approach that as progressives we should address is to tell people out there, we know you're angry. but muslims are not your enemy. who is? what does it meanen that 5% of all new income in america is going to the top 1%? you want decent jobs. you want your kids toy have an opportunity. we're going to fight to give you that. don't go to the darkside. don't go bash diagnose immigrants or muslims. but we need an alternative. yeah, we stand up to protect those people who are in trouble. i did a -- i did a town meeting in george mason university a month ago. and we had a whole lot of students out there. people were asking me questions. never forget it. three young people with scarves on their head, muslim woman,
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they wanted to talk. i said come on up here. the young woman says i'm scared. this is maybe a month ago. she's scared. i can understand it. you would be scared, too. these kids born and raised in america. very bright young lady going to be an engineer. she's scared. we've got to stand with those people are being attacked today but at the same time it's not good enough to say that racism is bad. we've got to reach those people today who are so hateful and say you have a right to be angry, don't take it out on the muslims. work with us to create an agenda and political movement that will make your life better, no the just other people's life worse. >> bernie sanders of vermont. can you hold on and come back? right after the break. we'll be back with senator bernie sanders right after this. i'll be programming at ge. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. (friends gasp) the app where you put fruit hats on animals? i love that! guys, i'll be writing code that helps machines communicate. (interrupting) i just zazzied you.
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even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. we're back for the interview tonight with senator bernie sanders of vermont. democratic presidential candidate. thank you for sticking with us. >> my pleasure. >> i know you started the day today in baltimore. you were in the neighborhood where freddie gray was arrested. can you tell me about that trip why you were there and what you saw? >> well, i was invited there to meet with about 20 black ministers from around the country to talk about urban poverty, lack after educational opportunities and what's going on in many of our urban centers. and rachel, it was -- i mean i had an idea of what to expect
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but it was a bit stunning. you walk around this community and unemployment in the community is about 50%. you walk around the community and you talk to people drop outrate in high school is enormously high. there are no supermarkets where people can buy fresh food. it's little shops where you get potato chips and a lot of liquor stores. there are no bank branches there. if you want to cash your collect, you go to a payday lender and pay an exorbitant interest rate. you're living in a very depressed third world type community. and needless to say the incarceration for people in that community is extremely high. people go to jail, get out of jail and go back again. as a nation there home run many issues we don't talk about. poverty is one of those issues. we have 47 million people living in poverty.
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37% of african-american children are living in poverty. we have more people in jail than any other country in work. these are issues we have to deal with and we can deal with it. it doesn't take rocket science to know we have to invest in our kids, our communities, we have 0 create jobs. we have to make certain kids are not dropping out of school and hanging out on street corners. what i saw in baltimore was distressing and it tells me we need stronger policies in this country. >> what's the relationship between that kind you have poverty, the extent of poverty and intractability of poverty and concentration of poverty in the minority communities? what's the relationship between that and your critique that our system is set up right now to concentrate wealth at the top? how do you -- i mean, redistribution doesn't just happen. how do you end up fixing one by addressing the other? >> there has been massive redistribution of wealth in the last 030 years. we're talking about the top .1 of 1% seeing a doubling of the percentage of wealth that they
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own. trillions of dollars coming from working families going to the top. essentially what my campaign is about is saying we've got bring that money back into the middle class and working families. we have to create jobs, raise wages and make public colleges and universities tuition free so kids in that community studying hard understand some day they will be able to go to college. it gets back to the first point. we need a very progressive and strong agenda to bring people into the political process because i worry very much about the future of the american democracy where so many people are giving up. we've got to bring them in around that agenda that says we're not going to let the united states continue to have one of the highest rates of childhood poverty in the industrialized world at a time when we're seeing a proliferation of millionaires and billionaires. we have to say to the billionaire class, enough is enough. you cannot have it all. are you going to pay more in taxes. corporations are not going to stash their money in the kaman islands.
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we're going to reinvest in america, create jobs, make education available to them. >> senator bernie sanders. i will say that you are the opposite end of the spectrum from donald trump. we see him leading right now in the republican party in an intractable way. you are the only person who talks about the kinds of things that might be driving people to support him in such large numbers in the republican party. that number line wraps around in a way that gives you a real opportunity to address the kinds of things that are really going wrong with this campaign. good luck, sir. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back.
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learn more at or call 800-580-3421. also, 9 out of 10 medicare part d patients can get toujeo® at the lowest branded copay. ask your doctor about the proven full 24-hour blood sugar control of toujeo®. donald trump is the an [ bleep ]. >> republican front-runner has made a name for himself in the last months by rasking in presently disand paranoia. his latest insult is his call to stop all muslims from entering the united states. this is both a shameless and a dangerous idea. and at a time when america should be doing everything we can to lead the fight to defeat
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isis and other radical jihadists. donald trump is playing right into their hands. >> hillary clinton speaking tonight in new hampshire with her first public comments about donald trump's proposal to ban all muslims from entering the united states. you heard that [ bleep ] at the top that was not hillary clinton swearing that was her saying donald trump and somebody in the audience finished her sentence by saying donald trump is a bleep. it was not her swearing, it was somebody in the audience. >> we have just gotten this in from vice president joe biden. he's just given an interview to bloomberg news in which he goes on at some length about donald trump on this issue. he says "i don't know what his motive is. quote i don't know what his motive is but i know what he's preaching is a very, very dangerous brew for america. is this just a guy doing celebrity apprentice for himself? is this just a guy who's an
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entertainer? it may have started there but i now think he wants to be president. also, i don't think there's much chance of that. vice president joe biden in comments tonight to bloomberg news saying the way donald trump is praech preaching is a dangerous brew for our country. more ahead tonight. stay with us. eaching is a dangew for our country. more ahead tonight. stay with us. this is the one place we're not afraid to fail. some of these experiments may not work. but a few might shape the future. like turning algae into biofuel... technology for capturing co2 emissions...
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introducing new centrum vitamints. a multivitamin that contains a full spectrum of essential nutrients... you enjoy like a mint. new centrum vitamints. the coolest way yet... to get your multivitamins. it should be heart breaking to every american that we have a frontrunner in the presidential race that suggests there will be a religious test for anybody who wishes to come to our shores. it is an affront to the very principles upon which our nation was founded. it is time that my side of the aisle has one less candidate in the race for the white house. it is time for donald trump to withdraw from the race. >> that's conservative florida republican congressman david jolly who is running in a competitive primary for marco rubio's florida senate seat. he today was the run republican who i know of who called today
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that donald trump should quit the race for president because of his proposal that muslims should be banned from entering the united states. meanwhile, the chairman confident republican party nationally told the conservative washington examiner today that he does not agree with mr. trump's call to block muslims from entering the country. reince priebus said i don't agree. we need to take on radical islam cal terrorism but not at the expense of our values. he told them that's as far as i'm going to go. joining us is someone following mr. trump since the we beginning of this campaign. katy tur. >> good to see you, as well. >> i have this thesis, i have this idea. it's probably wrong. i have this belief that donald trump keeps floating the idea that he will quit the party and run as an independent if the run republican party does not treat him fairly. i think he keeps floating that idea because i think he wants the republican party to effectively give him a reason to
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quit so he can run as an independent and lose. >> i don't agree. i think donald trump may have not necessarily believed he was going to get this far in the th race initially. but i think now he's pretty far in and he's seeing these throngs of people come out and wildly support him, no matter what he says. and i think he is now kind of in love with the idea of becoming president of the united states. i think he truly does believe that he can be the republican nominee. on the other hand, he is floating the idea of becoming an independent, having a tweet today that says about 68% of his supporters say they would follow him to an independent run if he were to do that. that is a not so veiled threat to reince priebus and his opponents saying basically if you're not nice to me, if you don't treat me fairly, whatever fairly is in donald trump's idea, only donald trump's idea of fairly, im. >> going to go do this. it's a way of holding them hostage. >> but he's making that -- while
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the republican party is treating him more than fairly. they are treating him with absolute kid clubs. i played that clip from david jolly. who? the only republican i could find who's really saying donald trump, you're out, forget it, this is unacceptable, this is beyond the pale. clearly, in basic, factual terms it is beyond the pale, but republicans can't say that. >> if they say it, they'll push him too far, then he can galvanize his anti-establishment base. >> are the republicans really thinking about it this way? >> yes, they have to thread the needle here. and when i have these background conversatio conversations with sources in the rnc, they say we're in a delegate situation, we have to be careful what we say. if we push back on him too hard, the base will say we like him even more. the more you push back on donald, whether you're in the media or gop establishment, the stocker his base of support comes. so they need to wait until a
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time when he misses getting on the ballot to be -- to run as an independent in various states, where he gets to at some point start activating sore loser laws. at that point, they might come and say more strong things about him. but until then, they kind of skr to wait and watch, because it's a dangerous game right here. >> no matter what he does, he's guaranteed to have support from the republican party. >> yes, at what point are you maybe complicit in what can be described as fear mongering or dangerous rhetoric. and that is a question that still has not been answered. so i think they're trying to figure out what to do. are we more worried about losing this party? or having donald trump become the nominee? >> katy tor, i do not envy you your job, but i'm also fascinated with it at the moment. it's nothing if not interest, which is a chinese curse. thanks very much. we'll be right back.
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some people who knew syd farook, more than one person, some people have told fbi investigators he apparently talked about staging an attack in california as early as flee years ago. and in 2012, he worried about being discovered.
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nbc learned those new details from a senior law enforcement official. that same official says investigators don't really know what to make of these claims, but, of course, it cowl bolster the assumption that syed farook was radicalized long before he returned to the united states with his new wife in july 2014. the senior law enforcement official declining to provide any specifics an't this supposed earlier planned attack from 2012. obviously officials are telling us there's no way at this point to know whether or not these claims by people who knew him are true, but once again, we're having it told to nbc news sources tonight. meem who knew syed farook said he discussed a possible attack three years before the one in san bernadino last week. we will continue to watch this story, watch this space. oh no... (under his breath) hey man! hey peter. (unenthusiastic)
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for all the controversy around him, republican voters love them some donald trump. maybe his latest idea for banning muslims from entering the united states will cost him, but this is the national polling showing mr. trump way out ahead with 27% of the vote. he's 10 points ahead ahead of his nearest rival, ted cruz, then mark rubio, then ben carson, jeb bush at 4 and everybody else is all 2% orless. one week from today, the next republican debate is going to be held in las vegas, moderated by cnn. based on cnn debate criteria, down there at the bottom end of the scale, rand paul is not on track to qualify for the main debate stage next week for the first time in this presidential race. cnn is going to track polls until this sunday to determine who's in and who's out. but right now, rand paul will be at the kid's table for the first time. today, the republicans also added a new debate to their schedule. fox business is getting a new
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republican debate next month, january 14. that will be two weeks before it's expected to be another fox news debate in iowa four days before the iowa caucuses. so right now, the republican party is kind of operating in a safe zone, stocking up a brand-new newly added fox business debate right next to what we think is going to be another fox news debate, all right next to the iowa caucuses. the party base may like their controversial candidate, but the party brass are playing it safe. and keeping their candidates well inside the fox universe cocoon. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow, now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> rachel, you said this thing on your show last night and you did another of it tonight. it's a theory of the trump campaign that i have been dying to talk to you about for 24 hours. i have publicly via twitter begged you do come on this tv show tonight and talk about this


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