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tv   Up  MSNBC  December 12, 2015 5:00am-7:01am PST

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elbowing donald trump out of the republican nomination. donald trump is speaking out about reports of a four fight to deny him access to the republican national convention noek summer. plus our conversation with the florida mayor who wants to ban trump from his city. more on our discussion on what
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it's like to be muslim in america in the age of donald trump. antonin scalia's comments on affirmative action that some are calling racist. and a tentative agreement for the climate change for -- donald trump responding to reports of republican leaders that they're discussing the possibility of a keftd ccontest convention. if delegates are unable to coalesce around one nominee. robert costa of the "washington post" reporting on a discussion this week allegedly taking place at an informal meeting of more than 20 republican matter figures this week. at that meeting, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell saying the party should be be prepare
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fog that kind of a scenario. here's what trump had to say about that last night in iowa. >> if we win like i think we're going to win, because we have such a big lead, honestly, it's not going to matter, they can't do anything, i don't care about the establishment, they can't do anything. if i'm two votes short i'll have a problem. because i'll have to go that convention and i'm dealing with all these blood sucker politicians and they'll be in the back ram making deals. but if i get the number of delegates, there's not a thing they can do. >> another trump campaign rally is scold for this afternoon. and luke, we had that reporting this week, what do we know more about how much of a concern it is for republican leadership? >> reporter: it's a deep concern for republican leadership and in my day job on capitol hill, tuesday morning paul ryan had a
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forceful denunciation about trump's comments about muslims. i talked with aides saying that people like me, people like ryan, people like mcconnell are trying to figure out how to lay traps for donald trump so he does not move forward. i have hard time believing that if trump were to actually get to cleveland with enough delegates that they would not try everything in their power to stop them. chuck todd asked him would you support the nominee if it was donald trump. he said i'll support whoever the nominee is, however i will not say no to donald trump because it will make him run as a nonparty candidate. they always knew that donald trump was going to be a thorn in their side. the muslim comments really got them worried and they realized the ramifications of that and i think it's safe to say that they
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are having conversations, and there's a general atmosphere that we really need to have a plan b because this could get out of control really quickly. >> what are some of the traps that they may be discussing, shall we say, here, luke, as the leadership are putting their brains together that might be able to avert a donald trump nomination leer? >> mcconnell, ryan, they're very careful to never have any of their top, top people participating in the discussion. it's always down at the lower level. but i sincerely think that you will see outside power and money against him very soon. they haven't been able to coalesce around -- they're going to do something to pump up rubio, this is all hearsay, but
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there is a worry, and when the worry is this real at this point, i think it lends itself to saying that this is not fun and games anymore, they realize they have a problem. >> thanks so much, luke. >> all right, let's bring in now our panel. victoria defran chess coe. susie kim, at to the new republican. here are some of the reporting coming from luke russert. what are you hearing? so it's been talked about, we have the reporting from robert costa. we're also hearing that this is pretty typical in terms of part of the discussion, as leadership gets together. there's a whole series of items they go through, one of which is appropriate convention? >> i think that this is just the republican establishment trying to work through in their minds a path to avoid not just a trump
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nomination, i think really what's at stake here is the future of the republican party. what is it? what does it stand for and is it going to be a party of trump, regardless of whether he's the nominee. there's really sort of a broader problem here, which is trump has a good portion of the republican electorate who agrees with him. who agrees with him on bachbing muslims sort of entering the country, of building a wall to keep out immigrants at the mexican border, so this is really a part of a much broader discussion for the future of the gop. >> is it soul searching that's saying let's prepare to lose in 2016? >> to suggest that the quote establishment can't do a thing about his earning the nomination, is just false. political convention are the ultimate establishment exercise and you can bet your bottom
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dollar that if he looks like he's going to be the nominee and he's a few delegates sort of nominating him, it will be a huge -- >> ronald reagan very well loved by the party, if that were to happen, is it good for is party? is it that come to jesus moment of them finding that center that we have been talking about now for what, six years? >> no way, rimmchard, they wanto stay away from any possibility of a brokered convention. and picking up on what luke was saying, it's this very fine dance, so your establishment wants to hint that they're not going to let trump get too far, but at the same time they just want to let it play out and i think they're letting cruz do this thing in iowa, he 's doing very well there, he got an evangelical endorsement.
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they think that cruz and rubio are going to surface by themselves. they're saying jeb bush is doa, we're not going to worry teach about him. if we get into april, may and we still see trump on top, that's when we're going to see the rhetoric ramp up by the establishment. >> the problem i think to the establishment also realizes about trump like all of his other opponents, is that, we saw this at the focus group that frank luntz conducted. he found that more you attack donald trump, the more outrageous things that he says, the more people push back, the stronger he got. after hours of showing the people in the room these videos again and again, they actually liked him even more. he's someone that defies a lot of the political conventions and wisdom that a lot of people put out over the years and it's
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real. >> the question is, are these people going to vote. i agree with you, it's fascinating to see the response that even republican registered voters have, but are these the people that are going to vote? we know that the republican figure, that conservative republican sector likes the trump lack of political correctness, but these are not necessarily likely voters. will they volt? may be, that's one of the question marks. >> something that's often discussed and often overlooked is the fear that if trump is pushed too far, he will run as anment and that would be a disaster. it might be a disaster in terms of winning the white house, but it will be less of a disaster-
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>> what comes of a brokered con investigation, who is the candidate that might bubble up that has been discussed? >> marco rubio has fashioned as the establishment favorite right now. we're still, 10, 11 months away, so anything can happen. but i do think that we are seeing leaning toward marco rubio. also perhaps even ted cruz. everything in life is relative. ted cruz was seen as very right of center, nonestablishment. but when you compare it to trump, he seemed a little bit more establishment candidate. so i'm thinking two cuban americans are going to surface to the too much. >> chris christie, he got the nod there in new hampshire two weeks ago, he's looking good in the latest poll, just bubbling up a little bit. >> if there is a brokered convention. >> he's pulling below christie
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in some places. >> i think that every candidate in this race as has been true in republican primaries in the past, they have had their moments, they have risen from the ashes and christie is doing that now, but it's far too early and far too unsettled to predict that now. >> if we reach the point where there's a brokered convex, you have to have a path that all these candidates will have to have shown that they can go through the primary at the general election. the problem hypothetically speaking, someone like rubio seems great, he sort of checks off all the boxes, but it's hard to see what his base is. the thing that's impressive about ted cruz is that he's managed to identify key sfreems of voters. and evangelicals. >> that's where we're going in the next hour, we'll talk about ted cruz. we're following a developing story in paris and the release
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of a tentative agreement on a global climate pac there. but first, can a podcast affect sergeant bowe bergdahl's sfat, especially when it's not just any podcast. achieve more. it pushes us to go further. special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries. the microsoft cloud allows us to immediately be able to access information, wherever we are. information for an athlete's medical care, or information to track their personal best. with microsoft cloud, we save millions of man hours, and that's time that we can invest in our athletes and changing the world. put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day.
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for the next several weeks, you can expect sergeant bowe bergdahl to be the talk of social media every thursday. he's the star of serial with new episodes released each thursday. bergdahl was the u.s. soldier who left hiss outpost in afghanistan and was capture bid the taliban, spending five years in captivity, before president
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negotiated his exchange for five taliban being held at guantanamo bay. now bergdahl is an active soldier in texas, but he is facing two charges from the army, charges that could land him behind bars for life. season two of serial uses audio from interviews that bergdahl gave to movie writer. in the first episode. bergdahl told ball he left his outpost in order to sneak off to another base, a walk of nearly 20 miles so that he could warn commanders about leadership problems in his unit. >> and what i was seeing from my unit up to afghanistan, all i was seeing with was basically leadership failure to the point that the lives of the guys standing next to me were literally, from what i could see, in danger of something
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seriously going wrong and somebody being killed. >> we're joined now by jeffrey korn, an assistant professor of the college of law for more than 30 years, including as a j.a.g. officer. you may have heard more of this. what's your thought on what this means, this audio that we're getting now from serial? >> well, i mean what it's doing is it's previewing for you his defense theory if his case is actually sent to court-martial, which i think it probably will be. and that's going to be what lawyers call the defense of justification or necessity. he's going to tray and argue that he was trying to serve some greater good. but candidly, i think's more implausible listening to him than it was when it was hinted in the media. and for a number of reasons. there's an obvious iron ey
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there. his decision to leave is what in fact put his unit in jeopardy and that is the nature of one of the charges he's facing. but the most obvious inconsistency with what he's saying and what the facts seem to reveal is that he left without his weapon or his helmet. and if you're going to make a special operations 20-mile dash from one combat outpost to another in hostile territory and your purpose is to make it to the other end, you obvious would bring some capability to defend yourself if that's really what you wanted to do. so that's my reaction to it. >> i'm going to play a little bit more from that interview ux where bergdahl described what his captivity was like. listen to this. >> how do i explain to someone that is standing in an empty dark room hurts? it's like, someone asks you, why
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does it hurt? yes, your body hurts, but it's more than that, it's like this mental, like you're almost confused. there's times i would wake up and it's just so dark, like i would wake up not remembering what i was. >> as you listen to that and you looked at the transcription there, not necessarily easy to follow or his logic or the point he's trying to get across. why do you think he is allowing this interview and giving it to bowl? >> i don't ethink there's any way that this interview would have been given if it hadn't been discussed and essentially cleared by his attorney gene fidel and his military defense attorney frank rosenblatt. those are very fine attorneys, i know them both. so what we're seeing here is probably a preview of what the evidence will be if he's brought to court-martial. and the suffering that he endured was unacceptable, to be
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very honest. it's a reflection of how illegitimate malt and pernicious the taliban are to hold themselves out as any type of military or combatant force because it violates the most basic notions of humane treatment that are obligatory to anybody in a war, but it doesn't just his conduct. it's important information that the court will consider if it reaches the point of deciding what punishment bowe bergdahl deserves but it doesn't just why he abandoned his post. in a court-martial, as any lawyer who's practiced in a military court knows, the sentencing hearing is very, very comprehensive. and the defendant is given the opportunity to the present whatever evidence is relevant to mitigation and extenuation, one
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of the issues that will be on the table for the court will probably be whether or not he should with be sentenced to confinement as with well as the comprehensive punishment that they craft. and i think it is relevant for them to consider that because of the nature of essentially the taliban misconduct, and the way they treated this soldier, that more confinement would have a more excessive effect on him than it would have on some other soldier that was facing confinement. so it's a very important consideration. and it also, i think, informs the public, so that they will better understand if the outcome offense this process does not result in a sentence of jail time, why that might be lodge c logical in this case. >> as the episodes continue, we'll get a better picture of what he is saying and what he is thinking. jeffrey korn of the south texas college of law, thank you so much for your perspective.
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>> thank you. still ahead what, will the next phase in the war against isis look like? we'll have an update on the tactics that might be used. and next, developing news out of paris after leaders reach an agreement on climate change. believe it.
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with golden, flaky crusts. that's my mom. now serving... a better banquet. world leaders have just released a draft of the legally binding agreements will require all participating nations to to take steps to reduce emissions. organizers are hoping to adopt the agreement later today. tony, they got the draft, they agreed on it this morning, they translated it into different languages and they passed it off. when do they vote and what is expected to happen here?
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and what is in this draft agreement? >> reporter: so moments ago, the french foreign minister emerged with what he calls the final draft of this two-week negotiation process. and it's been translated into the five official languages of the united nations. sometime this afternoon, although it could stretch into sunday morn. a planning session will be called, the french foreign minister will convene it, and he will say to the room, do we have consensus, if the room remains silent, he will bang the gavel and we will have a deal to limit and slow global warming. here are the details, a 1.5 degree temperature goal. right now global warming has been about a 1-degree rise. they're committing to a 1.5 degrees. they're trying to go below 2 with a goal of 1.5. there's going to be a goal from developing countries to change
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from dirtier forms of fuel to cleaner forms of fuel. it's being called an agreement, not an accord or a protocol or a treaty. and that's because in the american context, there's no way it would get through congress. so if obama signs it, portions will be adopted and portions will not. >> protests, and what have you seen? >> we have seen some pretty democratic protests and france is in a state of emergency and officially there's been a ban on demonstrations, although there's been a last minute protest for a peaceful gathering. that went off without trouble. you've got diplomats 10 miles away from here at an airport complex where the u.n. meeting is taking place. they're saying this is an historic moment. meanwhile protesters are hitting the streets saying this
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agreement is not going far enough. the truth is probably somewhere in between, and we'll have to see what the final document has within it. and we should get that within a matter of hours and we'll check back in with you. for more. >> for more on the paris attacks and the devastating effects of climate change around the world. you can go the msnbc.com, check out the feature, old our familiar globe is gone. how long will it be before we find out what american woman will be the new face of the american $10. and what mayor said i'm banning donald trump from my city? it's gone viral. are you completely prepared for retirement? okay, mostly prepared? could you save 1% more of your income?
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therthat can be serious,ere. even fatal to infants. it's whooping cough, and people can spread it without knowing it. understand the danger your new grandchild faces. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about a whooping cough vaccination today. trump's proposal to ban all
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husba muslims entering the country lab received -- so many here that the parliament will now have to consider the notion for debate on donald trump. and a little closer to home. several mayors here in the u.s., looking the to ban trump from their cities, philadelphia mayor michael nutter one of those to respond. >> he and his message of hate have no place in philadelphia. should have no place in pennsylvania a and should be rejected. >> so one wharton man to another what aret warton man. kansas city's mayor saying
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trump's plan for muslims is flat out wrong. and mayor kriseman joined in retaliation saying i am here barring donald trump from entering st. petersburg until we fully understand all the dangers proposed by all trumps. and this tweet has been shared nearly 20,000 times. and joining us, mayor of st. petersberg, florida. how do you see such a ban possibly working? >> with well, you know, when i tweeted that out, i never intended to actually be able to ban donald trump from coming to st. petersburg, it was really a statement being made to show how ridiculous his statement was. i felt like i'm going to address something that's ridiculous, with something equally ridiculous. so if you look at the language i used, even talking about banning all trumps, that was the sarcasm was very intended.
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we did think about excluding her. his comments were really outlandish, outrageous, and quite frankly un-american. >> what made you do this? because you've heard the comments over the course of time, this is just the latest in a long arc that have been controversial. has this been a short buildup for you? >> you're absolutely right, if we look at the comments that mr. trump has been making, whether it's mexicans or it's the disabled community and now it's muslims, who's next? this is all that's what's wrong with this campaign. from a main stream presidential candidate, when you look at the history and you see in an individual religious group being targeted, the results are dangerous. and the community i live in, one of the largest cities in the state of florida. we talk about opportunity.
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we're a city of opportunity for all america, america is founded on opportunity. the statements he is making are absolutely un-american and certainly stand against everything we believe in in st. petersburg. >> so mayor, what has been the reaction of residents of st. petersberg? we know that this tweet came from a visceral reaction that you had. but in the last couple of weeks, what has been the conversations that our citizens have been having and what are the reactions to donald trump and the reactions from different groups? >> i think this statement was kind of the tipping point. the reaction i have seen have been overwhelmingly positive. i have had people stop me and say thanks for saying what you said and standing up for what's right. the only negative comments i
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have received have been from trump supporters and some of the comments have been pretty ugly. i believe 7 years of hate toward our president that's manifested itself through this one candidate. it's like creating frankenstein and now they can't control him. >> we're talking about florida her here-- >> one might wonder how more might join the fray here, of course the uk, that will not be voting during our 2016 election. that's also very interesting, as we have scene the numbers grow within the last week. >> what's also interesting is just seeing, you know, you have heart a lot of contrast, compare sons between trump and la pant in france. but one of the things that stood
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out to me is even la pen herself said that trump's ban on all muslims. >>ing t >>ing -- entering the u.s. was on too far for her. as i mentioned before, this is a sentiment that doesn't seem to be isolated to donald trump, but is shared by some good portion of the republican electorate and the american community as a whole. >> in that interview, la penn said did you ever hear me say something like that? she's on the far right, she's in a country that's certainly gone through a lot during the last month, and if you look conte contextually, we're getting a lot of back -- >> one tactical point here, we're increasingly seeing the donald trump ceiling and his floor are reaching paritparity, 25% of the republican electorate
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is not going anywhere in terms of their support. so all these comments can be put in the context of him trying to solidify his numbers. >> mayor, you're not going to give trump the mayor the key to the city, certainly. instead what might you say to donald trump if you had a face to face with him? >> if i had a face to face with him. i think i would tell him, choose your words carefully, you are tapping into a hatred that's really scary. you are dividing our country. that is not good for us as a country, as a people. this is not who we are as a county, it's certainly again isn't who my community is and i think it's time for others not only in the republican party, but afternoon this country, to step up and say, this is not who we are as a country. we are not about hatred, we are about uniting our citizens, bringing people together and
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being united for everyone. >> thank you, st. petersburg mayor rick kriseman thank you for being here this morning. and we'll get an update from the military's top brass on the fight against isis.
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...new technology for capturing co2 emissions... ...and cars twice as efficient as the average car today. ideas exxonmobil scientists are working on to make energy go further... ...no matter how many tries it takes. energy lives here. president obama will pay a visit to the pentagon on monday to speak with military commanders on oefrts to combat isis. these meetings come as a u.s.-led coalition confirm that isis's finance minister and two others were killed in u.s.-led air strikes. bringing the total to nearly 9,000. this comes on to the heels of defense secretary ash carter saying more special operatives will be sent overseas sometime soon as part of a revamped war
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effort. these comments were made on capitol hill over the preside president's isis strategy. >> i think that we are building momentum against isil. >> how long do you think it will be before we retake mosul, ire i raqqa? >> raqqa, you noted this yourself, mr. chairman, the syrian kurds to the north have d done an excellent job of clearing their territory. >> we're not going into raqqa and you and i know that. >> when it comes to treasure, over $5 billion in terms of costs of fighting isis since august 2014 has been spent. many thousands of bombs have already been dropped, so what is the next phase in the fight against isis going to look like and the accomplishments and goals related to it? with us right now, four star
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general wesley clark joining us from little rock. welcome, general. when you look at what has been done and i went through some of that which has been done and then the success rate thereafter, what are the future military options that would work on the ground? >> got to get more eyes on the ground if you're going to drop more ordinance. as everyone has said, it's not productive to put u.s. ground combat troops in at this stage. got to have the fighting on the ground done by people in the region. that's difficult. because the kurds don't want the go past the kurdish areas, and the saudis don't want to come out of saudi arabia and the iraqis don't want the turks in their country. so it gets difficult to pull together the coalition that can do the ground fighting. but for now, let's focus on iraq, we do have the iraqi army and thor raek shiia militias.
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the key on that is can you identify the targets? if you've got people on the front lines or near the front lines with gps and laser designators and clear path coordinators you can call those coordinates in and the pilots can strike them. if you're only going on satellite imagery, it's much more difficult to find the targets. the key on this is eyes on the ground, finding da ining target aircraft to strike. >> i've been looking at some of the 130 advisors to iraq, that was an announcement moving into june 2015. 450 troops to iraq, and that's what we were just talking about, ash carter saying more special ops may be sent soon. do we know the solution? >> we know what the solution is. isis, you see, is an artifact of
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the controversies in the region over the future shape of syria. and whether iran or saudi arabia is going to dominate the region. and isis is the product of sunni struggles against the iranian bashar al assad alliance. so until you can work out the agreements between saudi arabia and iran, isis is like a franken stein, it's grown out of all proportions out of what it's original funders thought it might do. so it's out of control, but until they can agree on the politics, they can't come together to eliminate it. so it's a political problem, not a military problem. >> if you had to put together a strategy here to defeat isis? >> what i would with be doing is exactly i think what the president's doing, i would be working behind the scenes
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diplomacy to try the to bring the respective parties together. like last week, the saudis brought together a bunch of the jihadi groups not isis, but the others, to try to get them to work together against isis. then you've got to get the saudis an the iranians and the turks to agree. you've got to cut off the funding to isis. are we going to flatten to the oil infrastructure? should we do that? could we do that? we don't militarily know how to work all this. but as we found out in iraq, if you don't address the political instate, what is the goal you're after through the yoouuse of fo you won't succeed. simply getting rid of saddam hussein left a mess in iraq. simply getting rid of bashar al assad for isis is going to leave a mess in syria. so we have got to put together a
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vision for what the region looks like before we go pell mel in there to completely wipe things out. what we're doing right now is more or less a holding strategy, we're distracting, disrupting isis, we're not going to eliminate it this way, everybody understands that, but you're not going do get it eeliminated until you can bring some sort of greater convergence at the diplomatic level from the principal funders from the respective parties in the syrian conflict. >> general, this is susie kim. earlier this week we heard president obama call for yet again a vote to authorize this war, which they have so far refused to do. do you feel like that would have any impact in terms of this attempt to build any kind of coalition and build the partners we need on the ground in the region? >> i'm not sure it would do much diplomat diplomatically, but it would do
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a lot for the united states. it would be easy to sit around and harp on the president's policy. we have got to put those troops in, just 20,000, just 30,000 and before you know it you've got th the iraq invasion happening all over again. this is a long-term commitment of force, but it's directed to something political and so we have to get our arms around the politics. the difficulty of it of course, the more the administration publicizes the politics of it, the more difficult it is to get it done. because just as we found 20 years ago in the balkans. if you run around and say you got a peace plan and then the peace plan doesn't come through, then you look like a failure. so you want to do the diplomacy behind the scenes so you can get everything pulled together so a peace plan will be successful. >> a rapid fire here quickly, question, question, and then general we want use to try to
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answer it quickly. >> what would conditions on the ground have to look like for you to determine that sending more soldiers into combat would be warranted? >> and victoria, your question. >> what is your reaction to the rhetoric we're hearing from some of the candidates, ted cruz saying this week that, he just wants to carpet bomb the region, what is your reaction to that? >> you can't carpet bomb. i mean carpet bomb is what we did in vietnam when we designated a one kilometer by three kilometer box on the ground and put down a couple of thousands of 500-pound bombs in that box in the jungle. you're not going to do that in raqqa, you would kill tens of thousands of people. and besides that, much of the isis headquarters is probably already dug in under ground. so that's not going to be effective. for u.s. ground troops to come in, first of all you've got to have a political agreement as to who's going to take over
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afterwards? do you really need ground troops? i mean what is the point? u.s. tanks to shoot at an isis tank. you can do that better from the air. but if you can identify the a ace s isis tank. u.s. troops to soimp a house, you can do that better with iraqi forces if syrian forces or jihadi forces can get there. so the push for u.s. ground forces is like a -- it's a lashing out for give me a quick fix, give me a quick fix, there's not a quick fix on this. this can conflict is not really about terrorism in the region. it's really about who's going to control the region. is it going to be the sunnis operating out of saudi arabia? or is turks where the greater auto man empire or is it going to be the shiia, with purra reaching across and into iraq and into lebanon directly.
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that's what's at stake here. so we have to be careful not to push for the u.s. ground troops situation which is goinot going make things easier. when you start counting your own casualties, then the clock starts to tick, and the budget numbers run up. this is the time for heavyweight diplomacy behind the scenes, but we're distracted, we have got climate change, we have got ukraine, we have got a refugee crisis, we have got china. so there's lots of stuff going on behind the scenes that pull the administration and it's key leadership in many different directions, not going to bring isis to heel until we can get saudi arabia and iran and turkey to agree on the future makeup of syria. >> all right, thank you so much, general wesley clark, appreciate your time today for joining us. .
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we want to bli you the latest on the -- authorities are calling the fire bomb on a mosque a hate crime. somebody intentionally set the bomb on a mosque in riverside county. police have detained what they're calling a person of interest. riverside county adjacent to san bernardino. we'll discuss what life has been like for muslims in the country in the wake of the attacks in paris and san bernardino. up next, a $10 tour as well. we'll be right back. i absolutely love my new but the rent is outrageous. good thing geico offers affordable renters insurance. with great coverage it protects my personal belongings should they get damaged, stolen or destroyed.
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all pulli ing ahead of trum in iowa. thank you for joining us on this saturday morning. the war of words between donald trump and ted cruz. plus, what is it like to -- what is it like to be muslim in america these days in the age of donald trump. we'll find out with our special guest as authorities investigate last night's fire bombing of a mosque in california. also new tapes of supreme court justice antonin scalia's comments on affirmative action that some are calling racist. and whose job is it to police possible terrorist activity online. all that and more is ahead this hour. but we begin this hour with donald trump, firing off in opening sal voe last night on what could be the battle in 2016, the one taking shape between him and ted cruz. the two republican front-runners
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seemingly circling around each other after crews overtook trump in a monday iowa poll. again last night in his first remarks to an iowa crowd since the polls debuted. trump attacked the texas republicans. quote, saying ties to big oil as well as his faith. take a listen. >> from texas to the best of my knowledge, there's a lot of oil in texas, so he gets a lot of money from the oil companies and he's totally against ethanol and everything else you're talking about. if ted cruz is against ethanol, how does he win in iowa? because that's very anti-iowa. i don't know how he wins in iowa. i do like ted cruz, but not a lot of evangelicals come out of cuba, in all fairness. it's true. not a lot come out. but i like him nevertheless. >> nbc's luke russert live in akin, south carolina, boy, did
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we throw you a softball, my friend, lots to talk about there. the rooeivalry, is it coming ab? will we see escalation? and are folks on the grou. >> reporter: if you look at what's happened over the course of the week, those comments ted cruz reportedly made to donors saying that he did not necessarily see trump or carson as qualified for president. trump is saying go ahead and get in the mud with me, because every time he's on offensive , he's a better candidate. all that said, cruz is trying to walk it back. he had a tweet saying this is the establishment making this all up. this is how donald trump characterized his relationship this morning.
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>> is there a feud or is there not a feud? >> he said i agree 100%. i agree 100%. but we have had a very good relationship, but i'm sure to wto -- >> there you see trump saying, oh, we get along okay, but it's going to have to end at some point. trump i would argue would invite this, however cruz is a very smart, calculating guy. i have covered him since he has come to the senate. everything is planned out four steps ahead, it's a chess match. cruz probably doesn't want to get in the all out battle with trump right now. that is why he's been pretty, shall we say reserved in what he's had to say about trump. at the end of the day, they will have to go after that same slice in iowa. evangelicals are backing up cruz. eventually those will inflate at some point. >> two masters of the message,
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right, luke russert? >> we try. >> nbc's luke russert in south carolina. exactly who are the people who want to see donald trump as the next president? >> reporter: first things first, trump supporters like one thing more than any other. >> i like how he tells it how it is. >> if you're full of crap, he says you're full of crap. >> i think he sounds like he has a fifth grade vocabulary. well, you understand what he's saying. >> reporter: they say are angry, fed up and trump is their only answer. >> i'm tired of the republicans and the democrats. >> i'm hoping he can turn our economy. >> most supporters are older, white, male, with a high school degree or less, about a third are evangelicals. few identify as very conservative and most say to the american dream they knew is
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gone. that is them on paper. in real life, they say they are just regular folks. >> do you think that you ear a part of the crazy fringe in this country. >> absolutely not, no, not at all. >> reporter: regular person? >> regular, really boring. >> reporter: not all donald trump supporters agree with everything he says, but they do believe, and this is in south carolina, it's in new hampshire, it's in iowa, arizona, alabama, you name it. they say they don't have to agree with him because they trust him. and they believe in donald trump's own words that he'll make this country great again. >> hear with the panel here this morning on a saturday for the second hour, we have got victoria victo our panel. so we have the potential beginning of a feud being expressed between two
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candidates, we have also got who are the voters which is an interesting point to talk about. let's talk about that feud, quote unquote. is it really there, are they starting to can do a little rope pa dope here? >> cruz is looking down the pipe and saying, okay, in february, february 1, we're going to engage, january, i'm going to start to take the gloves off. right now i'm just sewing the seeds. but he knows he can't get too explicit in the attacks because trump is very dangerous and if trump starts attacking him, then ted cruz will not be in a good place. but this is for the long haul, this is two months of little miniattacks and then he walks it back and then at the end of january we're going to see the gloves come off. >> this is cruz tweeting, the establishment's only hope, trump and me in a cages match. they're trying to get to the top, get to the primary and then it will be a matter of time.
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>> it will only be a matter of time before donald trump took the gloves off. i think ted cruz is in a bit of a precarious situation here, he's got to absorb a lot of those attacks, if he pushes back with a level of force which is not commensurate to the water that he's taking on, he is going to alienate the voters if heavy has any hope of coalescing. >> cruz knows that, and he's going to tease him and walk back. >> that would certainly be an opportunity for cruz to hit hard. >> i don't think he has a reason to. he has evangel cical support. he doesn't need to fight back on that because the evangelicals are solidly with him. >> i think one of cruz's strengths as a candidate, i was at the value voter summit a few months ago, which was just kind
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of a huge a part of his base and you could see the organization out there he had volunteers, he just blanketed the event, all over the place, i feel like part of it is that he's just trying to confine his own constituency. i think that first step is going to be able to have enough bias to build it out. >> with ted cruz at 24%, donald trump at 19, and donald trump will have to punch down and he will have to do that with ted cruz. the numbers may be saying, hey, i'm not sitting so comfortably as i was early. >> we know that evangelicals turn out in the iowa caucus. if that truly is cruz's support, then he's got a leg up on trump. in terms of whether or not they come out and go to a school gym on a snowy night in february, we just don't know that.
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>> what's trump's ground game in iowa, that's the question mark, because he can be great with crowds, and the crowds are eating him up, and he's serge getting the sound bites, but on those cold snowy nights in iowa, is he going to get them to come out? >> ted cruz feels very comfortable with what's happening in iowa eiowa. >> there's a point in the cycle which people were starting to ask those questions and he has made those investments. but this is a valid question, you look at the pollsters trying to puzzle over this. and their response is we're not sure if the bhpolls are overestimating or underestimating it. some folks when they're polled, they're afraid the to say publicly that they'll support someone, or tell pollsters that they support someone. but they may support him on
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paper. >> "the new york times" cbs poll shows the comments that were made by donald trump about muslims and not letting them into the country, and republicans, it was only 30 odd percent that said we're against that statement. where's the other 70%? >> i'm not familiar with the times poll, but the journal had a poll that put republican primary sentiment at 38% to 39%, which is do you agree or disagree with donald trump's comment on muslims. are we going to be the party of intolerance? are we going to be the party of stated intolerance and are we going to be part of a candidate that wants to alienate a part of the electorate. >> there's 42% support. >> roughly in line. >> we're starting with some of
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those seeds that ted cruz is planting, is donald trump qualified to be commander in chief. he sits very presidential, he sits very much as command never chief and he's trying to set up that distance between himself and donald trump and say, he may be fun to watch, he may have some good things to say, but he's a little quirky. >> if trump were to be the face of that tea party that we have seen since 2010 and the wave, then to the question may be, are they vying for that vote at the moment or is that something that's completely different when we see trump outflanking the tea party. >> tea party 2.0? >> the interesting thing about the tea party as a movement as compared to what we're seeing happening behind trump. is that the tea party is i'd
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logically unified. the trump supporters as you heard some of the interviews with katie turr. they don't have an ideology. it's a more primal sentiment. it's the lizard brain and trump has a way of getting those reactions. >> there's a short -- excuse me, there's a cautionary tale in the short but interesting history of the tea party. they came to life in 2010, just two years later, americans rejected the very sentiment that launched them into office. they were seen as men and women who spoke their mind and didn't have a background in politics and then two years later they were swept out of office by a sentiment that said these people are extreme, they don't know how to compromise, they don't know what to do. if we look at that as a party. >> you need to come down to
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texas where the tea party isn't just alive and well, it's increasing in strength. so we need to understand the different regions, the general election is a different electorate than your midterm election, so as we go into to the 2016 election, we have to now contend with three factors, the trumpians, the establishment republicans and any lingering tea partiers. >> what would the trumpians look like in a midterm election? >> i i don't think they would look like anything because i don't think they would turn out. >> the midterm elections, you see them in an announcement being defined by individuals, being defineded by personalities, and trump has taken advantage of that and exploited that more than anyone else. the midterm election where they speak to the republican party as compared to the democratic electorate which has yet to coalesce and be a coalition to turn out. which is why republicans managed
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to get control of both houses of congress. so it's. >> i would just add that we -- to the the same suite of people that we nominated in 2012. >> all great comments. talking about trumpians can, we now have a new hash tag weal talk about this morning on msnbc. how will antonin scalia's comments about affirmative action help define this court's legacy. our panel certainly has something to say about that. and muslim americans have faced anger in the wake of the terrorism attacks and who's to blame for that anger? those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want.
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this morning police are investigating a bomb at a mosque 578d people defacing an swlaumic community center. early reports say there is no indication this is a buy yased crime. these incidents are the latest in a slew of muslim related incident this is week. muslim american congressman receiving a death threat. a muslim woman being shot at after leaving her place of worship in tampa, florida. another being nearly driven off the road. and then monday, two officers on the american islamic relations care were evacuated after receiving packages and
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threatening messages. violence, discrimination and threats against american muslims are at their highest point since the aftermath of the september 11th attacks, some muslim americans are saying that the hate tread is being stoke on the campaign trail. >> we also need leadership in washington to stop the president from bringing in tens of thousands of syrian refugees. >> we ought the to be bringing in people like orphans, people that are not going to be the terrorists. christians are not going to be islamic terrorists from the middle east. >> i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. >> where is the wade spread evidence that we have a problem in america with discrimination against muslims? >> joining me now, the president
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of the republican muslim coalition who yesterday invited donald trump to visit a mosque with her. and a fellow at the institute for social policy and understanding. we'll start in the studio. it is tough the to tell those stories, i don't think many americans will look at that and go, wow, that is where we are here today in 2015. is that your view? >> it's a difficult time and it's actually a difficult time in multiple ways, so one of the jokes we have is what minority group is trump going to demonize next. we have a lot of african-americans. and the growing demographic are latinoin ing latinos. and a lot of us are immigrants, whether our parents came here or we came here for work or education. all these communities are getting attacked as muslims, but we're also victims of the ant--
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it's like you're getting hit on a lot of different fronts at the same time. so it is in memory as an american muslim the worst time that i can remember. >> and saba, you and i have been talking about this over recent weeks, this is an aggregate statement being made by several politicians running for high office. how do we disaggregate to understand this better as haroon is intimating here. >> islam phoophoba is on the ri and i invited donald trump to learn about islam from muslim americans. i'm hoping that the presidential candidates from the gop side are going to the start visitsing mosques and meet their muslim american constituents, to understand what our needs are, the threats we're facing and how we can solve our national security problems together. >> how do you put together the
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list of either threat ors attacks that have happened near or closely involving places of worship, muslim worship and the words that have also been it traited within the last week or so. how do you discuss those problems? >> threats should be reported to the police, but i'm not going to stop doing what i'm doing, i believe what i'm doing is worthwhile. i think it's helping americans understand another side of islam. we can't let that fear control us. in islam we believe the best way to deal with problems is through patience and with prayer. we're going to be patient and we're praying for the best. but at the same time, we have do engage at the political levels at the highest levels to defend our country. >> how do you talk about this in your prayers?
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>> you tell yourself that the same country that's saying all this stuff is also the country that elected barack hussein obama twice. i know there are people of trouble, this kind of stuff does put you on edge, and you look at the outrage this has produced. donald trump has said some vile things and he has support from to the republican party. but a lot of people including a lot of republican leaders have finally woken up to islamophoba. i have been saying for years this is a problem, and people have been ignoring it. >> i want you to put on your republican hat and i mentioned this with our panel earlier, do you agree with donald trump's rejecting refugees from the united states. it was below 50%, it was 35% or 36% from the cbs poll. what were other republicans thinking then? >> the problem with the
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republican party for a long time is that their policies are based on race and ethnicity. you can disagree with democratic policy. but bernie sanders is not saying that we should -- but republican politicians say over an over again, that we should deny terin certain groups of people certain rights based on their ethnicity, religion or identity. what i would ask republicans the to do is-focus on what are the long-term ramify cases of this for your republican party. >> and what would you say to those republicans, to the non36% that we were just showing onscreen? >> i would say that we need to be more welcoming and open to minorities and accept everyone. donald trump can come up with whatever constitutional plans they we want and we have a u.s. government which allows due process under the law. he can't just blatantly ban
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muslims. i don't expect this to pass as law any time even if he comes up with it out of his mind. we're hoping to reach out to donald trump and all presidential candidates and hopefully change their minds in the upcoming year. >> who's your candidate then that does fit into to the space that you're at as a muslim republican? >> we're working with all of them, i have been meeting with different candidates. >> which one do you think stands out for you at this moment. >> i think that rubio is talking about immigration reform and i'm hoping we can reach out to him. >> i'm a democrat, the majority of americans -- >> who would you pick in templgs of all that's out there right now? >> honestly, i'm disappointed by almost all the canning ddidates. >> thank you the so much for your time on this saturday.
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still ahead, controversial comments from supreme court justice antonin scalia in the court's latest affirmative action case. we'll have audio on what he said. divers continue to search a san diego lake. divers removing things from the water, we're live at the scene. i accept i'm not the rower i used to be.. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but i won't accept is getting out there with less than my best. so if i can go for something better than warfarin, i will. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus it had significantly less
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call 1-800-directv. taking you the san bernardino investigators are diving in a lake since syed rizwan farook and tashfeen malik were seen there in the hours before the san bernardino attacks. divers extracted two small objects from that lake. do we know what those objects are? >> we don't yet, richard, in fact fbi investigators have been combing through this lake behind me for two days now, and once the sung comes out, they'll be
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searching for a third day. we have seen them take two small it tells from that lake. but we do know that from the items they were able to ---it appears that this couple had an even larger attack planned. focus now on enrique marquez, he has not been officially familied a suspect. but investigators say they have been told that marquez planned a 2012 attack with syed farook, but he got cold feet. he purchased two of the guns that syed use inside that attack. on the day of the attack, eng enrique posted on facebook, i'm sorry, it's been a pleasure. the $28,500 that were deposited syed farook's account before the attack. this appeared on an online lending market place. it's sort of like a craigslist,
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it's where online borrowers and creditors can meet together and talk about matching funds. now investigators are wondering if in fact a terrorist cell funded money through that site specifically for the purpose of this attack. even with these new details, these new ekquestions, the focu is on those victims. a memorial is being held for tin ngyen. >> we're also following developments in paris where world leaders have reached an agreement on a p. a lac they ho will stem climate change. that final draft would be legally binding and would require all countries to take steps to reduce emissions. several reporters and producers in paris monitoring the situation, stay right here with us on msnbc and we'll keep you
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nbc justice correspondent pete williams sprain explains. >> the university of texas at austin says to achieve the level of campus diversity to achieve learning must be a factor in admissions. but could it be as justice antonin scalia asks harms students. >> there are those who say it does not benefit african-americans to get them into the university of texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less advanced school, a slower tracked school where they do
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well. >> he said some studies show that most black scientists do not come from elite universities. >> they come from lesser schools where they do not feel that they are being pushed ahead in classes that are too fast for them. . >> reporter: that produced a few gasps in the courtroom. some called his remarks racist, others said he was just wrong. >> studies show that black students like most students fare best when they go to the best school they can get into because they are challenged in that environment. >> reporter: but some opponents of using race in admissions say scalia had a point even though he didn't say it well. >> they don't score as much act democratly. >> nbc's pete williams reporting there. let's bring in buzz feed's chris
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gui guidener who was at the court. what was the reaction from the other justices? >> good morning. the time when justice scalia brought up those remarks came rating at the end of the yaufrt of texas lawyers' arguments. and so basic the lawyers response was the end of that section of the arguments. so it's sort of dropped at the end of a segment and didn't come back up again. >> so really, a mike drop, did you look at the other faces, though, after that mike was dropped? >> i couldn't really see what the other justices happened to be looking. justice scalia is known for sort of making the headline comments at arguments and honestly, i have been joking with people that he saw justice al lito
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getting a lot of the headlines in the argument and decided to grab something in there at the end of that segment. >> why is the supreme court hearing this again now? >> when the supreme court heard the case in 2013, what it said was that the lower court hadn't used the test correctly. the strict scrutiny of whether or not race can be used in a government program. so the fifth circuit heard the case again, and said, yeah, we still think that this program is right. and abigail fisher, the woman who's challenging the policy is, asked the justices to take it up again and they did. and this taa time it came down it was a lot more aggressive and the ultimate question of whether or not these policies are allowed and it seemed like at
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some points justice kennedy was a little nervous about making a decision. >> our panel is here with us. your reaction to justice scalia's comments, and his assertion? >> any one of you. >> aisle start. i think that the good justice's overall point is not without merit. in the name of social engineering and education, it does not serve either the student nor the institution if students are in an environment where they're not up to the challenge. that is a debate we can have. but justice scalia singled out a certain group of students and said that they somehow or were not up to the test. and he's got some explaining to do. >> his implication that black students or whatever other group you might want to the pick are supremely unqualified and are
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just being selected because of their race. and i don't think that's the way these university officials think about their policies or the students that get admitted think about themselves. they basically want to use race as one factor among an entire range of factors that included being academically qualified to attend that university. and it feeds a pernicious notion that minority students are just being selected because of their race and they don't have other qualifications to be there. >> and does it work? >> at the university of texas -- >> do you have an opinion? >> let me give you some insight from the ground right. susie's point is exactly right on. when we're looking at students, we're looking at whole individuals, we're not just looking at race, we look at region, we look at legacy, we look at different interests and majors. so the problem with these comments ask we keep zeroing in on race, it is a factor, among many, many factors, and i think it's going to be very
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interesting to see what happens here, because it's not just going to be what affects the law school. this is going to affect all admissions across the country. >> and as we saw this in michigan and california the very same debates. and back to you, chris, on this, this is going to come down potentially here to chief justice roberts and he will have to make a call on this. what will this be like? based on his decision, potential decision and his legacy here when it comes to the nation's civil rights discussion. >> i think the chief justice -- i'm not sure it's going to come down to the chief justice, because he has made it clear over time that he has real problems with affirmative action. because of the fact that justice kagan isn't participating in this case because she was involved with it. it's been going on so long, when she was in the obama administration. so it really is going to come down to what justice kennedy is going to do and he's had
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problems with affirmative action in the past. he's voted to restrict affirmative action programs. but at the arguments, it was clear that he was a little nervous about being the justice who casts the vote to side with sort of the comments that were being made by justices alito and scalia that would really strike this down and end to the policy in whole. he was sort of looking for -- he kept asking about like whether or not we could remand the case back down to the trial court so we could get more evidence into the record. >> okay . thank you so much. thank you for joining us on a very, very compelling topic. coming up, should silicon valley be doing more to identify possible terror threats?
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in the wake of the attacks in paris and san bernardino, silicon valley is being called on to help reduce threats. requiring tech companies to alert federal law enforcement about suspicious activity. law enforcement officials saying san bernardino shooter tashfeen malik posted her stanley cup pocup -- support to isis before the planned attack. isis has used social media to plan, recruit and plot attacks. is there a request here, to the idea monitor yourself? >> so it's modeled after really the child porn legislation that already exists. dianne feinstein has reintroduced legislation sort of the post san bernardino attack legislation phase. it would require twitter, facebook to report anything they see immediately that's terrorist activity. the pros and the cons, number one, they should already be doing that, they should already
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be letting the government know that this is going on. and in large part they r number two, people say this is starting to infringe a little bit on the first amendment, so the bill is still this committee so we'll have to see how it shakes out. >> self monitoring, is that what it's basically being called here? and is it the right thing to do saying you must monitor yourself? >> do we want to open the floodgates of sort of government really intruding on first amendment freedom of speech. there are apps that we know that isis is using to the communicate. apps that encrypt themselves, that's impossible to break. this bill would not address that. >> tech companies say it's not a their job, it's not what they do best, the government all right monitoris much of this information. >> when it comes to reporting this for big tech, the question is will they stick their head in
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the stand, because then legally if they see something and they don't report it, that's on them. >> is it better to ask here, government agencies must work with, must collaborate with these social/media companies? >> and learn from. these are the experts, why not let them tell us the best way to sort of monitor this. twitter and facebook have been good at doing this. sometimes the government will say leave it up, let us track it. >> it's interesting that dianne feinstein is introducing this. if you are just joining us, we want to get you up to speed on a fire bombing at a mosque in california. the incident now being called a hate crime and the fbi is part of the investigation. authorities say someone fire bombed the mosque in riverside county yesterday. no one was hurt. one person of interest has been detained in that. we will bring you new information as we get it. he rac. so we asked them... are you completely prepared for retirement?
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there's a lot going on this
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morning. we'll get caught up open some of the other headlines making news. several interesting articles. we'll try to get at least three of them. "new york times." i was reading this headline. national front gets a boost in french regional elections happening this weekend. maran lapin, leader of the national front, as many of you know here, a far right party, and when she was asked about donald trump's comments about muslims coming to america, she said, as you mentioned earlier, that's not me. have i ever said something like that? yet she's in a country that one might say based on recent events as well as history might be the place. you might have more donald trumps or individuals saying things like that. >> everything in life is relative. i think we look at the french right as being uber conservative and then a donald trump comes along. i think what we see if france versus the united states is with donald trump it's an ultimatum. let's kick all muslims out.
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let's not let any muslims in. whereas in france, it's more incremental. we don't want to see the hijab being worn. we don't want to see external shows of religion. we want to keep religion out of our society. it's a matter of degrees more in france rather than here in the united states as trump saying we're just cutting it out. >> he's out to the far right in france? >> indeed. >> i think what you're seeing as well, with all of the parallels that you're seeing in terms of fear of terrorism, fear of islam, fear of immigrants, concerns that the countries are in decline and that they need a strong leader to turn them around. i think what you're seeing, the difference in france, is they have a party organized around that. we're in a two-party system with one party, the republican party, that is in total crisis and disarray and trump, who solidified a certain segment to suggest that something like a national front party could be possible in the u.s. >> there is a segment there. >> i think france has also dealt
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with the issue of muslim immigration to a much greater degree than the united states has. for marine lappen to say what she says, for me, is a cautionary tale for although who espouse trumpian rhetoric. >> "washington post," saudi women are voting and running for office for the first time. that happened today. so that's an historic moment for women in the world. more than 500 female candidates in the kingdom's first nationwide election in which women are able to run and vote today. and this is, again, 2015. >> so it's incremental change, local elections, but it's something in a country where women are still not allowed to drive. i think that is, you know, we should welcome progress where we see it. >> they should get a male guardian's permission to travel abroad as well. >> in our own history, the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage, in our history, it was also
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incremental. two steps forward, one step back. women being able to look at the local level. states were allowing women to vote. we saw pushback at the national level and saw women's suffrage nationally come about so perhaps we might see that women forward change. >> i'm hoping the saudis will be rewarded for this liberalization because i think it will do wonders for their economy at a time when oil isn't exactly knocking it out of the park, let's bring out more female consumers and let's do what we can to ignite the economy. >> let's talk about the ten dollar bill. what has happened is they've delayed the decision on the success successor, if you will, to alexander hamilton being on the ten dollar bill. it will be postponed until next year, according to the treasury spokesperson. a lot of folks talking about it, the three of you included.
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who should be on the $10 bill? >> i don't understand why we're kicking the father of the treasury to the curb. especially when alexander is selling out seats on broadway. i think we could keep him. >> who would you put on the ten bill? >> susan b. anthony. going back to the women's suffrage movement. she was the mother of the woman's suffrage movement. or we can take a page out of the western political playbook. let december a proposition. >> i saw that harriet tubman was a very popular choice in the polling. i think there are a number of women of color that could be strong contenders. i think part of the popular discourse is maybe there's a reason they're still deadlocked over there. >> we finish with gender
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equality right here on msnbc. thank you for spending time with us and maybe having a doughnut or two. thank you for getting up with us today. join us tomorrow, sunday morning, at 9:00. up next is melissa harris-perry. today what brought us to the rhetoric and fear we're seeing today. stick around. she's up next. have a great saturday. ok, we're here. here's dad. mom. the twins. aunt alice... you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course. don't forget grandpa. can the test drive be over now? maybe just head back to the dealership? don't you want to meet my family? yep, totally. it's practically yours, but we still need your signature. the volkswagen sign then drive event. zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on a new jetta and other select models.
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