tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC December 16, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PST
tough. it's easy. i can stand here this morning and say we're going to utterly destroy isis, we're going to blow them up and make the sand glow. that's easy to say. what are you going to do it with? jeb bush also hitting his favorite target, donald trump. and hear what he said about donald trump during an interview on "morning joe." take a look. >> it was a commander-in-chief debate in many ways. and i don't know if the front running candidate fared that well. >> chris matthews speaking with donald trump after the big debate and discovered the one question trump won't answer. is he still a birther? >> i don't answer that question because once i answer the question -- i don't want to answer the question. >> so we have a serious of reports covering the developments on the gop political front-runner, let's begin with katy tur joining me
from mesa, arizona, where donald trump is holding a rally an hour from now. and katy, what is the political world saying about donald trump's performance today? how are they spinning it? >> reporter: the political machine, i like that term considering such a small group of people that donald trump has around him. but they are very happy about the debate. they said so last night and believed it was his best debate performance yet. and i asked them why they thought that, what did he do to prepare differently? they said, he's just frankly learning how to do this. this is now, what is it, number five of debates, five debates so far? i'm losing track of all the debates we're going to at this point. but donald trump is happy with his performance. the people around him are happy as well. we'll see how he does with the poll numbers and the past his debate performances have not been as wide received by the wider audience but he's gone up in the polls.
he sounded more substantial on foreign policy and kept to policy attacks, not necessarily personal attacks, and is getting praised for that in a lot of circles today saying he's done pretty well. but we'll see how that translates into his polling. many were waiting for him to go after ted cruz. of course, as we saw, that did not happen. >> so katy, how is it being characterized today, the relationship demonstrated on stage to senator ted cruz and donald trump? >> reporter: you know, i asked him about this last night, i pressed him on this because he has attacked any other candidate when they have not necessarily attacked him first. i said, why are you holding fire on ted cruz? he said, one of the reasons is because ted cruz was with me when everyone else was not. that's not necessarily a reasoning that might hold with donald trump as we get into the late stages of january and right before iowa. if ted cruz continues to poll well there, i imagine that at some point the two of them will
have to try to differentiate each other from each other. claim to the voters in iowa why they are a better leader. donald trump is honing in on those attacks. he's starting to question ever so lightly cruz's evangelical faith, not saying many evangelicals come out of cuba. that's not entirely true, but he's trying to deposit that on the campaign trail. he's also talking about his senate record and the fact that nobody likes ted cruz in the senate. donald trump is saying he can get along with people despite what his reputation can be. he'll be able to get along with people and bridge the republicans and democrats and independents and get things done. ted cruz has not hit back. he's a disciplined candidate and is not going to do it. they are vying for the same votes and right now it's not beneficial for either one to go on the offensive. >> katy tur following the trump campaign. thank you so much. now joining us, mark murray, nbc senior political editor. mark, we'll talk about marco
rubio, the performance he put in last night. he's got a lot of stops in iowa and new hampshire today. not wasting any time. but he also had a favorite target last night with ted cruz who we really see as his main rival. i want to play one of the biggest exchanges from last night. take a look. >> as far as ted's record, i'm always puzzled by his attack on this issue. you support legalizing people in this country illegally. ted cruz supported a 500% increase in the number of h 1b s visas to allow those people into the country. >> i supported legalization. indeed, i led the fight against his legalization and amnesty bill. and there was one commentary that put it this way, for mark to suggest our records the same, it is like suggesting the firemen and the arsonist have the same record because they are both at the scene of the fire. he was fighting to grant amnesty, not to secure the border. i was fighting to secure the border. >> so mark, it seems like they are looking for the other one to
get out of the way. is he their target, being the fact they both can't survive this? who has the bigger challenge ahead of them, rubio or cruz? >> i think both of them. the stakes are really big right now. and that entire exchange, i think it was highlighted very well, some of it splits within the republican party when it comes to the issue of immigration. there was another showdown when it came to national security and surveillance. but on that exchange when it comes to immigration, thomas, ted cruz was pointing out that marco rubio is one of the co-authors in the gang of eight comprehensive immigration reform legislation and giving a pathway to citizen ship for undocumented immigrants. marco rubio is countering back saying this doesn't aggress what you'll do with the 11 million undocumented people in the country. the cruz campaign said they actually kind of adopted the mitt romney self-deportation model that all those people need to go back. >> so when we look at this and
what you put into the first read today, it has to deal with the fact of their national security, their immigration policies, really represent the divide that's happening in the gop right now. and one trying to emerge as the majority in terms of where policy stands, for what people will vote for. >> that's right, thomas. and when you look at those two different issues and the splits with them, marco rubio seems to be, according to most polls, usually on the right side of most republicans when it comes to national security. ted cruz, on the other hand, is on the right side when it comes to immigration. and i think that's why you saw them pick and choose the questions and the attacks they end up having in their little scuttle. but what i will say is this, though, while both of them have their different lanes, ted cruz has the easier path to winning the republican nomination. the reason why is if he ends up winning iowa, he wins south carolina. he ends up doing well in the favor for the republican nomination.
marco rubio's path is more difficult. he could win iowa, he could win in new hampshire. his path might actually be trying to be the second place finisher in iowa and new hampshire. just to consolidate the establishment support against the person who emerges from that insurgent lane. >> okay. mark murray in d.c. for us. nice to see you, thanks so much. >> thank you, thomas. we want to talk about jeb bush now. msnbc host and political correspondent steve kornacki is here with more on this. i'm going to join you as i quote firstread, they say it's not as clear as it was 48 hours ago that rubio is definitely going to be the establishment's candidate. he's still the favorite for that lane, but christie and bush have aligned. so did jeb bush land the punches he needed last night? >> we'll let people make up their minds. certainly jeb bush came to this intent on standing up to donald trump and getting headlines for doing that, maybe trying to throw trump off his game. we'll play what jeb tried to do, how trump responded, see what you think.
>> well, i know what i don't know. i know what i don't know. i would seek out as i have the best advice that exists. i won't get my information from the shows. i don't know if that's saturday morning or sunday morning. i don't know which one. look, the simple fact is if you think this is tough and you're not being treated fairly -- >> this is not tough. i wish it was always as easy as you, jeb. >> we are dealing with the islamic terrorism that exists. this is a tough business. >> i know, you're a tough guy, jeb. >> we need to have a leader. >> real tough. >> you're never going to be president of the united states by insulting your way. >> i'm at 42 and you're at 3. so far i'm doing better. >> doesn't matter. >> you started off over here, jeb. you're moving over further and further. pretty soon you'll be off the end. >> obviously jeb bush went there in trying to do that. most of the other candidates did not want to take on trump. my question watching that was, is there a difference between, if you just read the transcript of this debate and you read what bush said and you read what trump said back, maybe it's a,
hey, bush landed a few blows there. but is it different when you actually watch it? the body language, the tone, the sort of the style, does that affect has you interpret it? i'm curious if that may be where trump gets his strength from, how he looks and sounds compared to bush. but the other interesting thing in the aftermath of that debate is there's a story in politico today that says not only did jeb bush show up to do that, but there's discussion in bush's campaign bush will come out to announce he would not, could not support trump as the republican nominee. that's something to look for. >> how will that make a difference in the polls as we get through the breeze period with the holidays upon us and then through january as we ramp up to iowa? >> this is -- for bush it's not so much about iowa as it is about new hampshire. i think the bush campaign and a lot of these so-called establishment candidates are people who are trying to be the establishment candidate alternative to trump. cruz might win there, trump might win there, we're not going to win there but new hampshire, that's the state, a very different-looking state. different electorate. that's where you have to break through. so i think that's where bush has
really been spending a lot of money. there's a lot of emphasis there. the bad news for bush, certainly, is right up until this point he has dumped millions, his super-pac has dumped millions and has gotten no traction for that money. you take a look at this, does this change the coverage and perception of jeb bush? and if he does get going, the problem he's got is rubio's got a little support there in new hampshire. christie's got support in new hampshire. so it is so divvied up that you can't take trump on. >> your prediction, no one drops out before iowa. everyone stays on track? >> i guess if i had to predict it, here's what i would say. if bush is not getting traction clear through january, given the expectations and given the family name, i've been wondering all along if there's a point where the bush people look at this and say, we don't want to go through getting killed in these states. but maybe he'll get traction out of this. >> steve, thank you. the other big story we're following today from one hour from now, 2:00 p.m. eastern, we expect the federal reserve to make a decision that could have
a major impact on your wallet. they are expected to raise interest rates for the first time in nearly a decade, since 2006. now, interest rates have been near zero since 2008. just to give you an idea of how long it's been since interest rates were raised. at this time in '06, twitter was not a year old. the first iphone had not been introduced yet. and george w. bush was in the middle of his second term as president. cnbc's sue herrera is joining me now with more on this. explain the impact this could have long range and the expectations. >> the expectation is that the federal reserve will move key interest rates up about a quarter of a percent. it's not much, but as you just explained so well, it is the first time in nearly a decade that we would see interest rates move higher. the impact could be pretty widespread. in two different ways, one, if you want to get a mortgage or buy a car or if you use your credit cards a lot, those rates will be going up.
probably not a lot, but enough perhaps to get people a little bit nervous about buying that car or buying that house. but if you're a saver, you've been waiting a long time with your money at the bank, in the bank, making nothing. so actually if you're a saver or hold cds or things like that, you will be getting a little bit more interest on your money. so that's the positive side of higher interest rates. but generally speaking, we tend to think of higher interest rates as a negative. i think what the market is going to be looking for is not just the move on rates if the fed does decide to do that, but also the head of the federal reserve, janet yellin, what she says in her news conference later this afternoon. is this going to be what they call a one and done? where it is one interest rate and they are done for the next year or so? or use words like gradual increases? it's really going to be about language, thomas, at this point. wall street wants to know, is this the only interest rate near
term or not? back to you. >> we know it will follow monetary policy jargon, but what about inflation policy, sue? >> the inflation targets were very far from that. and that's the one thing to have people curious as to whether or not the fed may use that as an excuse not to hike rates. we don't have inflation in the system right now, primarily because commodity prices have been falling, most notably oil, which today alone is down about 4%. so cheaper gas prices certainly, but it's really a negative in the stock market to see those kinds of moves to the downside in commodity prices. >> okay. less than 15 minutes from now we should know for sure. sue herera, good to see you. thank you. >> good to see you. coming up, what we know about the person behind the e-mail grant that sparked the unprecedented shutdown of the second largest school system in the country. we'll take you to los angeles. then to baltimore. a jury deliberating in a city on
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nearly 700,000 students return to school in los angeles today. this just 24 hours after officials decided to close all its schools tuesday because of a now discredited e-mail threat that involved explosives and weapons. school and city officials were harshly criticized for the overreaction. but law enforcement defended that decision. >> if you knew what the superintendent and the school board knew at 5:30 this morning when the decision had to be made, would you have sent your child to school? and every parent i have asked has said no, of course not. and i think that that should be the question all of us ask our
school, do you treat our kids like your own? >> and we are outside james madison middle school in los angeles. morgan, explain to all of us as they give an explanation now how they got to their decision, explain what they then had to follow-through with in terms of sweeping all the schools, to give the all-clear for students and faculty to return today? >> reporter: well, thomas, you mentioned the all-clear. we are outside this middle school where students are inside taking classes safe and sound. that's after you mentioned seven hours, more than 1500 separate school sweeps yesterday looking for a possible bomb. and after all that, the l.a. mayor garcedi came out to say this was not a credible threat. he did not go as far to say it's not a hoax. it's not a hoax because at the very least it's criminal mischief, which i thought was interesting. but this cost the school system
quite a bit of money, thomas. we're talking $29 million in funding, that's basically a daily allowance. there's so much money that a school gets per student. that's about $29 million and now the county is asking the state for that money back. but you heard them responding to parents upset about this closure, we treated your kids as we would treat our -- own. >> yeah, i know a lot of people are not building in for snow days here on the east coast. morgan, thank you so much. now we'll bring in justice correspondent pete williams. pete, can you fill us in on the investigation and where things stand to track down the person or persons who sent these e-mails? >> subpoenas have been issued, thomas, they are trying to figure that out. you heard yesterday that the e-mail had an address indicating it came through frankfort,
germany. but that was one hop along to disguise the true origin. law enforcement believes it came from or was sent through an e-mail server here in the u.s. that's popular with internet pranksters and have subpoenaed the records of that server and trying to get to the bottom of who actually sent it. one of the interesting things, thomas, that you just heard in the news conference from the police chief is he said the decision was made at 5:30 in the morning. we now know that it wasn't until at least half an hour later that the officials in new york and los angeles began to realize that there was a great similarity in these two messages. we heard yesterday new york officials say they thought it was a hoax for a variety of reasons, just the sheer fact of the wording of it, they thought it was preposterous, but secondly they took note of the fact that this person claimed to be a bullied high school senior. how could that person be in two places at once, basically, new york and los angeles?
but now we know at the time l.a. officials made the decision to cancel school, they did not know that the two identical messages or nearly identical messages had been sent both to l.a. and to new york. >> pete williams reporting for us in washington. pete, thank you, sir, i appreciate it. coming up for everybody, we are waiting the verdict in baltimore. now, it was deadlocked, this jury, about their decision for the fate of officer porter. and he's been charged in the death of freddie gray, one of six trials to move forward. have they come to a decision in we'll look at that
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verdict right now. adam, we have a series of requests that have come from this jury, some have been granted and others denied, explain what the background is for this denial? >> reporter: thomas, he doesn't want any transcripts in the jury room at all. he said, on a lot of these issues, you have the transcripts in the courtroom, he doesn't want them in the jury room. there was one transcript of an interview that officer porter did with detectives, he said, you have the video of that in evidence, i don't want you to have the transcript. as you mentioned, day three, it's been a quiet day today. not really much going on. we were kind of surprised they came back with a deadlock yesterday because they came in during the morning for all kinds of supplies, an easel, pencils, post-its. what they are caught up on? we don't know. is it one, two, all four counts? we don't know. the jury is of seven black jurors, three women, two white
men. they thought this was the case that they would win, that this would be the easiest of the six. they have an interview he did with detectives that could punch holes in the interview, get a guilty verdict and get him to turn against his fellow officers. we'll just have to see. they will be back from lunch very soon in the jury room. thomas? >> so invaloluntary manslaughte that's what they are debating over. keep us posted there from baltimore. coming up, ted cruz and marco rubio discuss a divide on two campaign issues. we'll have that next on "msnbc live." it's cash back déjà vu.
stop, donald trump is returning to the campaign trail and 30 minutes from now will hold a rally in mesa, arizona. last night in the debate some candidates trying to overtake donald trump sparred with one another. and one issue they fought on was national security. >> we are now at a time when we need more tools, not less tools, and that tool we lost, the metadata plan is a tool we lost at our disposal. >> i would know that marco says he knows what he's saying isn't true. >> marco gets it completely wrong. we are not any safer through the bulk of america's records. in fact, i think we are less safe. >> so let's talk about the legal issues being debated among republicans. why they are so important to the 2016 election? and we have ari melber joining us now. this is the follow-up to the patriot act, the freedom act, explain what the freedom act
does and how it is different from the patriot act? >> this is a bipartisan bill that does one simple thing. it takes the metadata, that's information about calls, not the content of the call, but who would you call, when did you call them, that kind of stuff and says that the government can't just hold that on millions of americans. and private companies can and the government can still get it, but the big difference was, according to edward snowden's leaks, the government has been secretly, and many people say unlawfully holding all that government information itself in a database. that wasn't allowed. but the information still exists. so in the clip you just played, what you have of senator cruz and paul eluding to, let's not xa exaggerate and say that intel is not available, it is. the government just has to go get it with a warrant, which is what the founders envisioned when they created warrants for reasonable searches, thomas? >> in that vain, do phone and internet companies have to hand over the personal records if the
government just asks for hem them? >> well, they have to ask them over through the normal process, to a warrant or a reason to hand it over. so under the port surveillance act, if there's an emergency, we already know the government can go in without a warrant for a few days and retro actively get one, which is not that protected from the civil liberties side, but it reflects that policymakers never wanted this to be a bar to get an immediate or urgent intelligence. the politics sound really different than the underlying law. the most interesting political point that supports this law, thomas, is this was a widely bipartisan bill. we hear a lot about the freedom caucus. it was those libertarian members of congress that insured this reform got through the republican house and was ultimately tried by a democratic president. >> ari melber, appreciate it. right now congressman shawn duffy, a republican from wisconsin, joins me. you'll remember back in october the congressman endorsed marco rubio for president. good to see you. >> good to see you, thomas.
thank you for having me on. >> we have mixed reviews for marco rubio and the performance he put in last night. we have bloomberg's mark halperin giving him a b, clearly he had cruz on his mind but never found a way to bring his rival down. a solid performance but not up to the levels he's received in previous debates do. you think marco rubio is getting better or worse as he's going through this process? >> i think mark halperin was a little unfair. if you're going to be a strong candidate, you have to look to present your ideas to the american people. you just can't chase some guy's long game and in the end, if he continues to talk about our economy as hopeful message, he talks about securing the homeland, economic growth and immigration, in the end he's going to win. and i don't think he has to attack donald trump to go from a "b" to an "a." you tell your ideas to the american people and that's how you win. but marco rubio came across incredibly strong on the national security front as well
as chris christie did. and yet i think you see ted cruz trying to position himself in the political winds of the day. he was opposed to the metadata program when it was the libertarian ear of the american people. now he wants to be a hawk on these issues. on immigration, marco rubio's been consistent. i think it is important to americans, if you secure the border so you know who is coming in and out of the country, they are willing to deal with people fairly and the people in my community that milk the cows on our farm in wisconsin to give them a shot to stay here. not citizenship, not amnesty, but the ability to stay. marco has been consistent, whether good or bad politically, ted cruz switches from one position to the next to meet the political wind of the day. >> so congressman, i want to play a clip for everybody, last night, obviously, a lot of candidates took it from all sides but marco rubio took incoming fire from a lot of different directions. i want to remind everybody. take a look, if.
>> marco can't have it both ways, he thinks he wants to be this i'm great and strong on national defense, but he's the weakest of all the candidates on immigration. >> for marco to suggest our records the same, it is like suggesting the fireman and the arsonist have the same record because they are both at the scene of the fire. >> so does marco rubio have a history of working with people across the aisle like a chuck schumer? and that's an achilles heel, the fact that he's trying to move forward with bipartisan legislation? >> i'll get to that in one second. character is built by a guy to take incoming attacks and address that effectively. that's what marco did last night. if you are effective as a legislator in the house or the senate, you have to be able to work with people who have different ideas than you do. and marco has done that pretty well. but we talk about national security and immigration, make no mistake that marco has been strong on the border. we have to know who is coming in and out of the country. and there's been no gray area
with marco in respect to that. what you do with people who have been here eight, 10, 12 contri society, that's a completely different story. and ted cruz was trying to make it seem like a weakness. but it's a strength, not just in the general primary, but with the electorate to have a position to deal with people who have come here fairly without documentation. >> congressman duffy, thank you. and we have breaking news out from the white house press briefing with josh earnest announcing the president will travel later this week on friday to san bernardino. that's the site of the worst terrorist attack inside our border since 9/11. the loss of 14 people, the injury of 21 others. at the hands of the local couple there of tashfeen malik and syed farook. he'll be meeting with families
privately while there. this was just announced a short time ago by josh earnest about the president traveling to the community of san bernardino. that's roughly about 60 miles outside of los angeles. also big news coming today from capitol hill where we have congress reaching a deal to avoid a government shutdown. the $1 trillion spending bill would fund the government through october of next year. take a listen to this, house speaker paul ryan earlier today about what it means to come to this last-minute deal. >> i have no reason to believe we'll have a shutdown. in divided government, you don't get everything you want. this is the result of a bipartisan compromise. and i think everybody can point to something that gives them a reason to be in favor of this, of both of these bills. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell is on capitol hill. i have a frog in my throat, excuse me. but explain to all of us why speaker ryan doesn't sound too hot about where he is with this new deal? >> caller: well, i think it is about compromise. and so this is not the process
that speaker ryan would like to see going forward. and by that i mean, this bill would sweep up funding for all of the departments of government in one giant package. it's 2200 pages. it's more than $1.1 trillion. he would prefer a process where each department has its appropriations and policies that go with that voted on step by step. that's not how it's going to turn out this time. it is what we call an omnibus, it's a big word, meaning it is all thrown in and the kitchen sink and the cough drops all thrown into one package. so he would like to see it worked to nut a proout in a p process down the line. he wants to work on the senate side and this is a result of both parties getting what they want. each side comes to the table wanting some of their most determined efforts to get things that will often anger the other party. and they shake it out and get
some things that will make both sides work. so democrats are very pleased, there are a lot of programs funded for families, for college education, for the fight against heroin and addiction in places like new hampshire. there are also pleas to have stopped republicans from things like trying to defund planned parenthood. that won't happen. republicans are excited about some tax breaks that are extended and being able to lift the oil ban on oil exports that's have been in place for 40 years. the voting still has to happen, thomas, but this is a big deal to keep the lights on and the government running through most of next year. >> yes, october 2016. kelly kelly o'donnell, appreciate it. coming up, the connections between the san bernardino terrorists and why they weren't seen until it was too late. it's a fascinating history. we have it for you after this. america's electricity comes from cleaner- burning natural gas.
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>> we can see from our investigation that in late 2013 before there is a physical meeting of these two people and resulting in their engagement and then journey to the united states, they are communicating online. showing signs in that communication of their joint commitment to jihad and to martyrdom. those communications are direct private messages. so far in this investigation, we have found no evidence of posting on social media by either of them at that period of time and thereafter reflecting their commitment to jihad or to martyrdom. >> we're learning a big distinction in the investigation being conducted about tashfeed malik and syed farook. that was fbi director james comey revealing what happened between the husband and wife couple of the san bernardino attacks.
nbc justice correspondent pete williams is joining us from washington. pete, also in the history and timeline of their courtship, it is very important to point out when this happened in 2013, well before tashfeed malik showed up inside the u.s. >> reporter: yes, and the fact is that that means that when she was being reviewed for a fiancee visa, there was nothing for the government to see. there were reports she was given her fiancee visa despite their public social media postings in jihad. and that setoff a considerable degree of controversy including some debate about now whether the government, both the immigration folks and the state department should be required to look for social media. that may be a good debate and that's a public policy discussion worth having, but the point the fbi director here is making that even if that policy had been in place when tashfeed malik applied for her fiancee
visa, there was no social media material from her expressing support for jihad to see. because all of the messages were private. so this straightens this out. it's been the subject of a lot of confusing reporting, which the director today called a garble. there has been a lot of confusion of this, was she posting under a pseudoname. and now he says this is the answer. >> and give us the update on what is taking place with homeland security and this activate of a new terror threat level. >> calling it a new threat level is sort of misleading even though that's what the department of homeland is doing. what they are saying now is from time to time they want to put out messages, which they call bulletins to the public to describe the current threat environment, without it being keyed to a specific attack. and here's the first one that appears on their website. the summary at the top with extremely good vision is
describing the current sort of self-radicalization concern. you'll see this if you go on the website of dhs.gov. and then this is their sort of template for what they want these things to be. what is the current threat? what is the government doing about it? what should you be doing about it? and what it says here specifically is, the current threat is people being radicalized by isis, what the government is doing, what they want you to do, which is be more aware, go out and enjoy yourself, live your life, but be aware of the threat and if you see something suspicious, let the authorities know. but this has been a goal of the homeland security secretary for several months. he's been frustrated that there isn't sort of a mechanism to put this kind of information out. he believes it will keep people better informed. even though as he admits, a lot of this is self-evident. >> you've absolutely right about it being an eye test to read the fine print there on what they are trying to make us all aware of. >> reporter: it's better to go to the website. >> thank you, pete williams. coming up, a billion-dollar endorsement for hillary clinton.
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you sound strong. it makes you sound like you're in over your head. >> but the republican base is biting on that. joining me no you is virginia democratic senator tim kaine. sir, it is good to see you. we know that national -- >> good to be back, thank you, thomas. >> -- security is dominating the political debate. >> well, thomas, the speech yesterday i think maybe not enough people paid attention to that because of the debate but the points she made were very strong and matched up with the speech of isis two weeks ago i think she is laying out a credible and mature position of american strength and not the kind of irresponsible sound bites that once you push on them they just collapse like we're hearing from the republican side. her.
>> hillary clinton being secretary of state and focus of attacks last night from candidates on this stage and i want to remind everybody what people had to say about where we are today through combined leadership of obama an clinton. take a look. >> america has been betroyed. we have been betrayed by the leadership that barack obama and hillary clinton have provided to this country over the last number of years. think about just what's happened today. the second largest school district in america in los angeles closed based on a threat. what's barack obama and hillary clinton done to this country? >> so, sir, how would you answer those charges and that hillary clinton being elected can actually turn things around if she is inheriting the policies she helped to implement? >> thomas, here's how i answer it. when you look at extremism in the middle east, what the republicans are doing is trying
to blame. i'm not in the blame america first crowd. extremism in the middle east is because of extremism in the middle east. it's not hurricane's fault and if you try to blame obama and clinton for failed governments and extremism in that region, you know, you're just engaging in america bashing. >> with national security, coming to directly hearing what governor chris christie saying about l.a. being shut down, that's because of a terrorism threat. the president's going to san bernardino on friday because of terrorist attack that happened there earlier this month. >> thomas, there were terrorism threats during the clinton administration and attacks. there were terrorism threats and attacks in the bush administration. it's because of the world that we live in. right? but say this is something new because of obama and clinton, that's a blame america first attitude. now what i think voters want the hear is somebody with some maturity and candid about the challenges we face and says like secretary clinton does that
america's great and we could be greater still but the way to be great is not by sort of blaming america for the malfunctioning governments in the middle east. >> i think america -- >> born and bred in that region. >> i think you would agree we as americans gotten used to the new normal of what we live through now post- 9/11 and how do you think that hillary clinton can reassure voters that we can be safe inside our own country, that we can root out any type of extremism and do it through legal and humanitarian ways? >> yep. i think you have to acknowledge that there are real fears but here's an example. so there are real fears about our security situation. you have got republicans who are going after refugees from syria, iraq, calling them enemies who won't have a debate and call isil an enemy after 16 months of work and then secretary clinton says to tighten up the visa
waiver program, do better in the cyber domain and challenges congress to get off the sidelines an declare war. some people on the stage last night going after secretary clinton, they talk tough an they won't have a debate and do what congress is supposed to do to declare war against isil. you're not going to see that from secretary clinton. >> senator kaine, thank you for your time. >> you bet. next hour, each speaking live. we'll monitor those events. bring it to you live. and any minute now the federal reserve will announce whether or not it will raise interest rates. and how this decision is going to affect you and your wallet.
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going to say in a moment. we're coming on the air because of the federal reserve and the decision that may be coming down here in about 60 seconds. and watching for this possible rate hike with us, olivia sterns who covers business and tech here at msnbc and sue herera at cnbc global news. when's about to happen? >> we think the fed is finally taking the training wheels off the economy. this is a critical step. consider it a vote of confidence in the economy. the 0% interest rates in place since the depths of the crisis meant to help stoking and it worked and this is the final step of taking the foot off the pedal and saying that the economy can support itself without the crutch. things are going better. the economy growing slowly but steadily about a 2.5% clip and unemployment at 5% and the fed thinks they waited this long and finally we can handle it. >> sue, your turn.
as we watch this, two constituencies here, the folks at home watching, perhaps, who have never fully recovered from '08. >> absolutely. >> and the folks on wall street who kind of tell us what to think about the economy. >> absolutely. i think, brian, what everybody is watching is, one, how much they raise interest rates if they do raise rates and we should be getting the news momentarily. and whether or not they are done or not. and the fed has raised rates right now. >> i hear shouting. >> what do you got? >> i'm just waiting for the headline to come out but it looks like the fed has raised rates by about a quarter point. a range between a quarter point and a half point on the fed funds rate which is a key rate that banks use when they borrow funds from each other. it is called an overnight lending rate. so, they have raised rates. the question is, when we hear from the fed chief janet yellen about a half hour or so whether
it's one and done or whether she'll continue to raise in a gradual manner. >> olivia, prior to coming on the air, you said this is big in your line of work like the super bowl. give us the practical impact. how is this felt in society? >> this is huge. this is the first time raised interest rates, first time we have started on a tightening cycle in monetary policy in nearly a decade. it's a big deal. anybody that's borrowed money or collected interest will feel some kind of ip are l effect. if you have a variable rate, a student loan, a credit card loan, a car loan or a mortgage, you are going to start seeing your monthly interest payment go up just a little bit increme incrementally right away. it is a big deal and gradual and key thing to hear from half hour's time, janet yell b to give out her press conference and we want to know how far to raise rates over 18 to 24
months. >> we have learned to cost more to buy a house, pay down the credit card balance. who benefits? >> savers. saver who is for nearly seven years getting zero interest on the savings deposit finally get a little bit more on their deposits and anybody with a cd to see that go up about a quarter of 1%, as well. everything is pegged on one level to the federal funds rate. >> the fed indicating in the statement right now that further rate hikes likely made slowly because the economy is strengthening but not as fast as expected and inflation which is the key is not near the target. they have a 2% interest rate target on inflation and way below that because oil prices have been falling dramatically and very interesting to hear the nuances from the fed chief as to what her definition of gradual really is. >> sue, an unanswerable
question, perhaps, but what is the reflection of janet yellen the public figure in this? such a hugely powerful job in american life. about which and about whom so little is heard during the year normally. >> absolutely. and the fed chief miss yellen has come under criticism because wall wl's been wastreet's been a rate increase for some time. you know, the market's kind of been on pins and needles and people trying to buy homes or finance cars, you know, they make the decisions based on how much they can pay per month and when the expectation was put out there six months ago, that they might raise rates and then they didn't, the fed lost a little credibility so if they had not moved on rates this time, i think they would have lost a lot of credibility. >> olivia, you concur with that? >> i do agree. the fed, of course, supposed to be independent and conservatives
criticize fed chair yellen for being too dovish saying she should have raised rates sooner and we were anticipating that the fed raise rates back in the september meeting, that's what the futures rates indicated. investors were bracing for the federal raise to raise earlier this year and she didn't do it and didn't do it because she was worried about throwing the recovery off course, in particular, because we saw stock selloff and didn't see that this week. the rally for two days, flat for the year and today and the market was ready this time. the other thing she was worried about was the strength of the dollar. people said that did a bit of what raising rates did making the money supply tighter already and looking at what's happening abroad and weighing the risk and heard from people saying editorials that janet yellen should wait and based on everything she is looking at, she decided the risks greater of not hiking. >> what's your favorite
barometer of how this plays in the weeks to months to come? >> i'm going to be watching oil, brian, because oil is down 3% today alone. you know? we are at $35 a barrel for oil. now, that's great for consumers at the gas tank for the gas tank but it's a problem for a lot of companies that perhaps invest in the energy sector and it has been a worry to miss yellen. she is a little bit worried about deflation and as a result of that i'm going to be watching commodity prices and we also really still have a lot of income inequality in this country, also something that the fed chief mentioned that is a worry to her so she is going to be watching every single data point to make sure that the economy stays on track. i doubt that this kind of an interest rate increase could derail it and may determine whether or not she and the other federal reserve board presidents decide to continue to raise
rates. >> sue, take me on a mythical shopping adventure here. for the folks shopping at the gal rh galiria or 5th avenue in new york, how will that shopping trip and the expense of it differ next holiday season as opposed to this? >> it will be a little bit more expensive. we should note that if you use your credit card, credit card rates are always substantially higher than any other interest rate in the economy but, of course, this gives the companies an opportunity to increase rates once again. so it will be a little bit more expensive. but not a lot more expensive. keep in mind that given what's going on in the economy, retailers really haven't had a great christmas season so far this year. they've been doing a lot of scaling back. there's been a lot of promotions out there. so although interest rates might be higher you might be getting a bargain because the economy is stronger but it's not as strong
as everybody would like it to be. >> olivia, coming off sue's point about oil, oil to use a sports metaphor has been a huge audible to call in the world economy and the world economy has had to adjust to this. no one could have seen this coming for the oil market. >> no. below $40. 18 months ago, twice that much. $80 a barrel. you can get used to $2 gas. everybody says because of the oil we're pumping particularly here in the u.s. to expect cheap oil prices for a while. great news for american shoppers, great for american manufacturers because input costs are lower and terrific for the car dealers. the worry, though, is what it does to the energy patch because it's a great driver of job growth. we are creating jobs in texas and north dakota and now because of the price of oil coming down, it is unaffordable for a lot of domestic producers to dig up oil out of the ground at these prices and we are going to see
bankrupt ris in the coming 12 months. how many, of course, will determine, will be one ingredient in the strength of the economy which the fed chair has to watch. >> sue, we have talked about this together on television for years. the disconnect of wall street and main street is something a lot of people complain about concerning 237bs s ining financ coverage. >> absolutely. >> is it heightened these days, do you think? is there more of a connection anywhere? >> i'm not sure there is more of a connection. i still think that main street and small businesses on main street are still struggling and i think that although the jobless rate has come down to 5%, part of that is because people are discouraged an they aren't looking for jobs or they have a part-time job and they need to do two or three part-time jobs to get back to where they were before or try to be as whole as possible on their salary. and wall street, the market's
done really well in a lot of cases. bonuses are down. but nonetheless some of that has to do with the fact that we have had interest rates low for so long and the energy patch hasn't been performing well. but i still think that main street and wall street are worlds apart. >> and, sue, about that giant green box next to your head, is this the plus side number you would have anticipated in the first five minutes after a hike? >> yes. i think if they hadn't hiked we would have seen a big selloff on wall street. but a triple digit gain is about where we should be given there's an 87% chance in the futures markets this morning coming into work that they were going to hike. if they had tightened too much, i think you might have seen a little bit of a selloff, as well. this is a pretty orderly and steady response to the fed's move. >> all right. thanks. a recap for people just tuning
in, after the top of the hour, what just happened to the economy, their credit cards and their world? >> a vote of confidence in the u.s. economy. this is the fed raising interest rates for the first time in nearly a decade. lifting interest rates off zero first time in seven years and they're making it slightly more expensive to borrow money so anybody who has a loan or gets interest on any account feels a ripple effect. it is going to be very, very gradual at first. the real question is the pace at which the federal reserve continues to raise rates over 18 and 24 months. where are interest rates heading into 2018? >> all right. olivia, sue, thanks. a heads up. 2:30 eastern time, about 20 minutes from now, janet yellen, the fed chairman, is going to speak to the media in the form of a statement. fair warning to lay people, these statements are tougher to understand than most. even in washington terms. so we'll be covering that, as well.
for now, thomas roberts with these new numbers out. back to you. >> all right. brian, thank you very much, sir. i appreciate it. yes, we will have the remarks of janet yellen coming up. but we turn attention to republican politics, the race for 2016 and the white house. want to show you live shots from arizona and new hampshire. campaign events, one for donald trump. on the right, marco rubio. they're going to begin shortly. now, both today trying to frame tuesday night's debate as a win. each one for their campaigns. both receiving positive marks and taking nicks in the process. it was earlier today that marco rubio was stumping in iowa and continued the attack on ted cruz condemning cruz's tough sounding rhetoric against isis not consistent with the voting record. take a listen. >> everyone on the stage talks tough. it's easy to stand here this morning and say we're going to utterly destroy isis, blow them up, make the sand glow. and it's easy to say. what will you do it with?
>> meanwhile, trump's sparring partner on "morning joe" today. jeb bush saying voters will see a rise in the polls because of his performance at that debate. take a listen. >> this is a wide open race. and these early states take pride in the fact that they're first in the nation. they take it seriously. campaigning hard in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, you can move the needle. >> wide open races, of course, a big question of the night, what is it with donald trump and ted cruz? was there a love fest? preorganized promance. here's ted cruz responding about trump's stance on immigration and a ban on muslims. >> everyone understands why donald suggested what he has. president obama and hillary clinton are proposing bringing tens of thousands of syrian refugees to this country when the head of the fbi has told congress they cannot vet those
refugees. i understand why donald made that proposal. if i'm elected president, we will secure the border. we will triple the border patrol. we'll build a wall that works and i'll get donald trump to pay for it. >> i'll build it. >> all right. so let's go to nbc's katy tur in mesa, arizona, at the trump rally. katy, has the trump campaign responded to whether or not there was some type of cozy agreement between trump and cruz? >> reporter: you know, we have asked them both this multiple times and neither one will confirm they have a behind the scenes agreement. they say they really like each other and pressed donald trump right after the debate and why he refuses to go on the awack with cruz and cruz climbing in the polls, beating him in some polls in iowa. donald trump said he's winning in others and, frankly, he really likes ted cruz because
cruz was with him when everybody edmond safra was against him and the idea for donald trump to hit at ted cruz is still a wait and see moment. same thing for ted cruz. they're both playing it cool going to the same base of support. we talked to supporters and ask them the second choice is. oftentimes here at a trump rally, they say ted cruz. at a cruz rally, they say donald trump. ultimately they need the same voters and to attack each other right now might potentially alienate those voters. if ted cruz continues to rise in the polls, i expect to donald trump hitting harder than he's hit before and we have two attack lines he's working on. one on his evangelicalism saying that they don't generally come out of cuba and the other said of voting senate saying he doesn't get along with anything and i, dlmp, will be able to bridge the gap and ted cruz can't and proven that he can't. so far, playing it cool, playing
it nice, thomas. >> katy tur doing a great job with the rolling stones with a background band there and with the trump campaign. now to nbc host and political correspondent steve kornacki. you have been looking into manager that came out of the mouth of ted cruz. >> a headline this morning that maybe the cruz campaign didn't want but richard burr republican from north carolina, the chairman of the senate intelligence committee and said they're looking into whether ted cruz released any classified information last night in that debate discussing the meta data program. let's play the clip. this is what burr is looking at. >> what he knows is that the old program covered 20% to 30% of phone ynumbers to search for terrorists. new program gives us nearly 100%. >> i don't think national television in front of 15 million people the place to
discuss classified information. >> the concern for burr there he says is that the use of specific numbers related to terror programs, that raises red flags for him and we should point out here, first of all, ted cruz is not a member of the senate intelligence committee so he wasn't in all of these sensitive briefings that committee has and also the cruz campaign has now this afternoon produced an article from "the washington post" last year that included a lot of the numbers that ted cruz was using last night. so it looks, thomas, on the surface like it's a bad headline for the cruz campaign. hard to see it going anywhere. it may speak to the poor reputation maybe that ted cruz has with a lot of republican colleagues in the senate. >> we'll see if it picks up steam with the base. steve, thank you. appreciate it. still ahead, a major topic of discussion on the debate stage last night. how should the u.s. respond to terrorism threats? and how best can the government protect americans? plus, 640,000 l.a. students are back in class after an
e-mail threat triggered a cleat shut down of los angeles unified school district. we'll hear from the chair of the federal reserve, as well, on the big news about an interest rate hike. quarter of a point. what that means to our economy. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands
while he is enroute to honolulu, the president will stop in san bernardino, california, to visit privately with the families of the victims of the terror attack many san bernardino that occurred earlier this month. >> so there we have white house press secretary josh earnest just a short time ago talking to reporters telling them about president obama's plans to visit san bernardino. coming up on friday. and the attacks there and the ones in paris in november were major topic of last night's gop debate in las vegas.
candidates laid out their strategies to fight terrorism at home and abroad. >> if i'm elected president, we will secure the border. we will triple the border patrol. we'll build a wall that works and i'll get donald trump to pay for it. >> i'll build it. >> we have to be extremely vigilant and extremely careful when it comes to nuclear. nuclear changes the whole ball game. >> this administration, barack obama and hillary clinton betrayed the american people. >> joining me right now, amy holmes, anchor at the blaze and ron reagan, radio host and political analyst. great to have you both here. i want to remind everybody, something we're following is trump event happening in arizona. we got word that the trump plane has landed. the plane, the plane. there it is. we'll have those remarks coming up shortly. but, ron, let's start with you
with what we heard last night and the republicans use your dad as a role model and way to cast themselves in your dad's light. did you see anything different last night in how they handled themselves coming to terrorism questions or policy platforms? >> well, my father was never eager to engage in military action. sometimes it might have been necessary. but it was not something that he liked to talk about a lot. i noticed last night and i know that steve kornacki brought up the business with ted cruz and possibly revealing national security secrets when he was talking about the surveillance. another thing struck me about ted cruz and really a lot of them is that they don't seem when they're talking about national security to actually have studied up much on the issue. think about ted cruz talking about carpet bombing isis. he doesn't seem to realize that isis is interwoven with the general population. so unless you're willing to kill many, many innocent people, carpet bombing isis isn't really
a good idea. i think it was ted cruz, also, who conflated iran and isis. as if both iran and isis are attacking us. iran and isis are actually enemies. iran is shia muslim. these two people are enemies. iran is fighting isis. they're actually helping us in a way. so you wonder about these people. national security is a serious business here. why don't they learn more about it? >> all right. so, amy, let's ask you your reaction to last night and who you think won coming to the security issue. >> well, i was going to say that it was a tie between marco rubio and ted cruz until what we're learning about ted cruz possibly revealing information he should not have of on that debate stage. i thought the exchange of nsa wiretapping was a winner for the american people to understand more about this issue, despite governor chris christie trying to dismiss it and say that nobody cares and it is actually incredibly important and also
the idea of vigilance, particularly after san bernardino and what we have learned that tashfeen malik, a terrorist killer, able to enter the united states on a visa without the social media checked and passing apparently three security screenings even though she had some very ill intent, obviously, for american citizens. >> a thing to point out to everybody, we learned today from the fbi director james comey about the investigation, the private messaging of malik and farook is where they described any type of jihadi messaging. >> she posted previously the support of radical, violent jihad on the facebook page and facebook postings, even to friends, even with privacy settings, do not have any legal expectation of privacy. >> all right. so one thing we know about the terror alert system that's been in place now and been announced today about the bulletin level to advise the public about
trends, so let's just take a listen to what the homeland security director jeh johnson said about this enhanced change. listen. >> this is general information for the public about the current threat environment, what we see, additional details, what your government is doing about it, and how the public can help. recent attacks and attempted attacks, internationally and in the homeland, warrant increased security as well as increased public vigilance and awareness. >> so, ron, let me ask you first off the impression of this new directive. do you think it's necessary, almost like the outdated color coding system that we had during the bush administration that the obama administration fazed out, it seems like we're back to the future again. >> yeah. you know, the public wants to know what their government is doing to make them safe. people are scared. san bernardino, paris.
this is in the air now and people are worried about it and there's reason to be worried but i think people ought to also stress isis, for instance, like al qaeda before it, poses no existential threat to the united states. like the folks in san bernardino who become radicalized from afar. they're not directed by isis. they simply get it into their heads that they'd like to do something to support them and maybe they exchange a few e-mails about it and then because it's the united states of america, they go out and buy a whole lot of guns and bomb material and can do some real damage. that's where the danger lies. it is not in an existential threat to the united states itself. >> there's a distinction of isis inspired and isis directed. we'll see if that comes up watching in the smaller box on your screen, donald trump's plane has landed in mesa, arizona.
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that talked about the percentages of folks that thought donald trump was the winner of last night's debate. it is the last debate we'll have in 2015. before we go into this lull of the holiday season and the new year, we ramp up through january and get to iowa february 1st with new hampshire to follow shortly thereafter. most predictions are that none of the candidates we saw on the stages dropping out. media insiders and those that are washington insiders say that most people have the support, the money they need to stand firm until we get through iowa and then we might see the first of folks actually dropping out before making the way on to new hampshire. one of the reflections from last night, the cozy relationship from donald trump and ted cruz. the fact that they really didn't go after each other and the rest of the candidates on the stage traded barbs back and forth pretty effortlessly. cruz and trump seemed to have
what people are calling a bro-mance on stage. coming to certain policies regarding immigration or building a wall, ted cruz with a reference of building the wall and having trump pay for it. he laughed it. seemed to like it. many people thought there would be more fireworks from the two last night as ted cruz has been showing a force of nature to the campaign in iowa which would be a concern to donald trump. again, iowa being the first in the nation caucus state with new hampshire to follow shortly thereafter in february. but donald trump making it up to the stage. shortly we can see some of the folks from the secret service detail right behind him. our katy tur also on site. not sure if she's with us right now. okay. she is not with us right now but we can hear the cheering and hooting and hollering going on in the back of the room and i think -- do we have a shot?
>> we said does anybody have an airplane? >> let's go ahead and listen in. i don't think he's at the pod m podium. >> so i'm going to do a little thing with bill o'reilly checking his makeup and finished in a little while and we'll be like ten minutes and be on tonight and then talk as long as you want to. okay? all right? thank you very much. thank you very much. don't believe any of these people. they're very dishonest. okay. did everybody see the debate last night? [ cheering ] so they did polls. 11 polls. out of the 11 polls, trump won all 11 polls. [ cheering ] right here. be very careful.
they'll say it's only ten. but 11 polls. that's good. we'll be with you in a couple of minutes, folks. okay? thank you. we love you. believe me. we love you. >> my mic open? thank you very much. we listen to donald trump talk to the crowds. not at the main podium right now. i couldn't hear distinctly what he said. i think a ten-minute break, maybe, to regroup but one thing he did say was the fact that he pointed over to the cameras, don't believe these folks, they're dishonest. the crowd laughed. but then trump praised the fact that there were 11 media polls
that say he won. and that's the tweet i was talking about that went out roughly about 12 minutes ago. so he said the media's dishonest and then promotes the fact they say he won all the polls. anyway, it is true donald trump. katy tur is standing by. what donald trump say first arriving? something about -- forgive me. i didn't know if it was a ten-minute break? regrouping for ten minutes? >> reporter: no, no. just off camera, a crush of cameras over there and he's taping an interview with bill o'reilly so he's going to be doing that first. >> i see. >> reporter: and then addressing this crowd. so that's what we're waiting for at the moment, thomas. >> okay. but i did hear he refer, referred to where you're standing i think and the individual that is are set up within the media as don't believe them, they're dishonest, and then promoted the tweet of the 11 polls saying he won the debate last night?
>> reporter: you know, we are very dishonest unless we're saying something that he likes and then in that case we're on point and on message and he's so very grateful. that's the way donald trump is. if he doesn't like something you say, you're dishonest. if he does, then you're doing a good job. this is what we hear at every single rally, frankly. some point of the rally starts to talk about how the media are a bunch of liars or scum, occasionally pointing a certain person out and shay they're dishonest and then likes them again and it's merry go round or rodeo show you get with the trump campaign, frankly. >> yeah. i think that we can see from the crowd there that they liked it. they laughed. he knows how to read the crowd. i think if i heard it correctly, twisted sister playing "we won't take it anymore" and we'll have more from arizona and donald trump coming up shortly. katy, thank you so much.
we have the breaking news from the federal reserve and the speech that we are expecting from the chair janet yellen. let's go ahead and listen in. >> -- outright in expectations. our statement 'em if sizes that in considering future policy decisions, we will carefully monitor actual and expected progress toward our inflation goal. this general assessment of the outlook is reflected in the individual economic projections submitted for this meeting by fmoc participants. as always, each participant's projections are conditioned on his or her own view of appropriate monetary policy. >> all right. so listening to janet yellen talk about what it means for the country, the confidence that they have to raise interest rates by a quarter point. so, this is the first time that the fed has raised rates since
'08. we had democratic presidential candidate sanders saying, quote, when millions of americans are working longer hours for lower wages, the federal reserve's decision to raise interest rates is bad news for working families. but we were watching the markets across the board, green arrows i see from the dow jones to the s&p and the nasdaq. modest increases. but i want to bring in sue herrera and jared bernstein. so, sue, i know you have been listening to chairwoman yellen. how's she been explaining where they felt confident to do this? >> indeed, you're right, thomas. they felt it was the time to do it now because the labor market improved and because some of the key data points on the economy have also improved. however, she took great pains
and keep in mind we're not even in the question and answer session and in the statement she used the word gradual several times. and as a matter of fact, in the statement from the fmoc, that's the federal open market committee or the fed, they took great pains to point out they're going to make these increases in a gradual way dependent on how the economy improves and pointed out the fact that inflation is below the target, 2%. she is blaming the liolion's sh of that on oil prices. and she does say that there are some workers who haven't been able to find work or discouraged and perhaps stopped looking for work and like to see more improvement in the labor market, even with the unemployment rate down at 5%, thomas. >> so a lot of ingredients go into making this decision today. jared, let me ask you, is the economy strong enough to sustain
something like this? >> yes. something like this, being a very small rate hike, a quarter of a percentage point. that question is more germane if you think you get a lot more by way of these rate hikes as next year progresses and, in fact, if you look at the forecasts out today from the federal reserve, they're thinking about maybe raising rates a percentage point a year over a few years and data driven like sue said. if a positive indicator shift into reverse, they'll rethink that. but i actually think that there's considerable slack left in the job market. 5% unemployment rate isn't representative. looking at the underemployment rate, it is close to twice that. >> exactly. >> almost 10%. there are reasons why you want the fed to go very slowly. a quarter basis point is not a slam on the brakes. don't be confused about that. adding considerably to it, that's a bigger tap on the slowdown. >> all right. sue and jared, thank you both
very much. i appreciate that. still ahead, though, much more. we'll have from baltimore. is there a decision? we have the jury that has been deliberating the fate of a former baltimore police officer in the death of freddie gray. now, they were deadlocked just yesterday and had to come to a decision under judge's orders and what have the jurors decided? live report coming up in a moment.
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or solutions as it may not work as intended and you may lose blood sugar control, which could be serious. ask your doctor about toujeo®. by day, they must stay warm. challenges to the feet. but by night, beautiful, smoother and ready to impress the other party animals. dr. scholl's dreamwalk express pedi new developments out of baltimore right now. we are on verdict watch as the jury in the trial of officer william porter have been behind doors deliberating, charged porter, that is, in the death of freddie gray. this jury in the third day of deliberations. they have been back for an hour after breaking for lunch and the jury has now just sent a signal to the court. i want to go right now to nbc's adam reice in baltimore. what are you hearing?
>> reporter: this is the second buzz of the day. could be a request for a transcript, verdict, a question. we just don't know. we'll bring it to you as it happens. now, we do know that there are officers of various agencies, local and state posted around the city. they're ready for a verdict, prepared for whatever event should occur after. it is day three as you mentioned. it is generally quiet. they asked for a transcript earlier in the day. he has denied all transcripts saying you had transcripts in the courtroom. he doesn't want them in the jury room. what way this jury is going, why they're deadlocked on one, two or four, we don't know. they came in yesterday with a deadlock and kind of surprising because they came in in the morning requesting all kinds of supplies, an easel, post-its, pens. we thought they were in for the long haul. seven black jurors, five white. if there's a mistrial on any one of the counts, the prosecution can pursue a retrial in whatever that entails.
the chances of failing again, the money and the resources that they would need to put into that. they thought that this was the case that they would win. they get a guilty verdict. and have him turn witness against his fellow officers. thomas? >> all right. adam, thanks so much. looking at the affiliate wbal retweeting saying the buzzer went off and roughly about 11 minutes ago that this buzzer went off to signal the court. we'll find out what the update is from the jury and i want to bring in msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber. yesterday the jury said they were deadlocked but the jury made them continue with their deliberations today and we don't know where they were deadlocked on the four different counts so explain the verdict, you know, how this could all come together or a mistrial, potentially, out of this case. >> sure. i mean, basically, thomas, like any other trial. you need all jurors to come to all the same conclusion. and they need to do that on each
count. so we don't know on the four counts whether they're deadlocked on all four or some of them. the way it works is ultimately if they come to agreement and judges typically push them to try to do so, that is, first time the jury says, hey, we don't agree doesn't mean it just stops. judges will typically say, go back in there. really make sure you're talking to each other and considering the evidence. the goal to, yes, have a confident conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt and that's the system. if that doesn't happen, they can come back deadlocked on all four charges, for example, and then a mistrial and means that the person is not convicted but they're still up for any potential prosecution and a new trial of all those claims because makes sense. they weren't found guilty or not guilty if, however, they are coming a conclusion on some claims, thomas, you could see an indication where, say, two counts resolved. two haven't and the prosecutors
again have a decision of another trial. >> all right. >> we have, again, the fact that they have buzzed the court. we don't know what they are buzzing to inform the court about. we'll keep everybody posted on that. i want to get this point in. that jurors on monday afternoon, they asked to see transcripts of the police transmissions from april the 12th. that's the day that gray was taken into custody, arrested and then they wanted to see porter's statement to police five days later. judge denied that saying it wasn't entered into evidence. from a legal perspective, what do you think they're trying to drill down on? >> probably looking at based on the request they have made is their understanding of what the defendant in this case officer porter thinking at various times, did he have a consistent story line or did it change? so they have asked for things that, again, frankly, because they're not experts, they didn't know they couldn't get and the judge says we don't give to you. this is done in a careful way
and the judge and the system trying to give certain information for a fair outcome and why they don't get everything. they had to hear and listen to the information. >> they said they were deadlocked yesterday. could we have a verdict in officer porter's? >> a verdict or an answer they're still deadlocked. we have to hear what the buzzer means. >> thank you. appreciate it. coming up after the break -- >> one of the things i would immediately do, in addition to defeating them here at home, is bring back the warrior class. we tray yas, mckristol, mad dis, key, flynn. every single one of the generals i know, everyone was retired early because they told president obama things that he didn't want to hear. >> coming up, we fact check the candidates about the debate night claims, who got it right and plain wrong and any moment now we are expecting to hear from donald trump in his first post-debate rally happening in arizona. that and much more after this.
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all right. so a live look at the trump event that's happening in mesa, arizona. hearing from katy tur, donald trump arrived to this event and then quickly to an event with fox news. so, taking his time, drinking this all in as he arrived roughly 30 minutes ago and here he is taking to the microphone, his first live audience since the debate. >> thank you very much. this is amazing. i want to thank bill and travis. where's bill and travis? they own this place. they gave us a very good deal. you know what it is? nothing. where are they? where are they? thank you, fellows. thank you. thank you very much. beautiful. nice facility. nice facility. they said they'd never had a thing like this before. that's true. we went to three or four places and every time we sign up, there were so many more people than we
thought. it was an amazing experience. you know, we all started in phoenix where i had that big event. we had the big event. thank you. thank you. i love you. i love you, folks. love you. amazing. you know, we all want the same thing. we want to make america great again. i mean, it is like -- we want the same thing. last night, i don't -- i'm sure nobody watched the debate last night, right? nobody. nobody in this crowd. that is very apolitical crowd. no. we had a little debate. so, i'll bet you they get big ratings. i called up the head of cnn. i said the ratings are through the roof. i think next time i won't do it. i think i won't just to see it tank and then do it. but these debates have been -- they've become super bowls in a sense. it's amazing. do you know last cycle no
network even wanted the debates? they were considered a wasteland. very few people watching and now fox had 24 million which is now actually higher with the final numbers but 24 million. the largest ever on cable television. cnn with 23 million. the biggest event in the history -- in terms of numbers, in terms of people watching, in the history of cnn. i mean, cnn in all fairness, they cover wars. they cover lots of different things. some problems. some big events. in the history of cnn, 23 million. according to cnn was the biggest event they have ever had. and you know what i get out of it? nothing. nothing! think of it. think of it. four years ago nobody cared. do you remember the debates four years ago? did anybody even watch? so we have to take advantage of what we can. you know, so last night was interesting because, number one, i made a pledge. so much easier. so much easier. we're going to -- you know, it
is hard to -- they're saying are you going do run as an independent? i said i got a poll at 41 and other guys are at 2 and 3 and 7. doesn't make a lot of sense. i think i'll leave now and i'll run as an independent. you know? it's amazing. it's as ee's amazing. no. it's amazing. you know, i did "meet the press" a couple of months ago and number one. i've been number one, since i went, all talking about it. in the history of politics, this isn't me, it's those people who i don't trust worth a -- but -- you know i go through this all the time and say, although, today the fact i did bill o'reilly they had to follow. they never show the crowd size. my wife said, did you have many people? they don't show the crowd. they never show the crowd unless -- i used to think the
cameras were like fixed. that they can't move. you know? modern cameras. they don't work like the old cameras, right? all of a sudden we'll have a protester in the back corner and see these numbers twisted like a pretzel. it's unbelievable. but i think today -- look at all of them back there. look at the cameras. they're the worst people. the worst. the worst. the worst! no. they're very -- not all of them. 70%, 75%. true. some are very good. you have so many dishonest reporters. i've never seen -- in fact, it is almost amazing to me because i consider myself to get the worst publicity and yet i've got this massive lead and it tells you two things. they're dishonest and the people are really smart. you know, they're really smart. i mean, i'll get story that is are so bad and then they'll come back, mr. trump, sir, your polls just went up 7 points.
how can that be possible? people get it. they know the press is dishonest. it's a whole big con job. so it's one of those -- in fact, in phoenix, you remember the crowd? anybody at phoenix? right? it was like this. it was -- we had 15,000 people. they reported it as 4,000 and then 2,000. and then, what's his name, bernie sanders, he's gonzo now. he's gone. he lost it when hillary was fine with the e-mails and that was breaking the law, folks. okay? so he doesn't get big crowds anymore but he was there a little bit before or after. his crowd, we had pictures. his crowd, my crowd. his crowd much lighter than mine. he had a lot of people but much lighter and they said he had more than trump. it's dishonest reportling. last night, i had jeb come after me. you know, low energy.
no. i'm standing there and all of a sudden i hear this, you know, donald trump -- you know, it is just like -- he said it just the way his pollster told him to say it. and then i hit back very, very hard but look. we need strong people. we need sharp people. we are being killed. we are being beaten by everybody. we are not winning anymore. i finished by saying we're not winning game. we don't win with the trade, the isis, the vets are treated so badly it's horrible. horrible. so, i just want to go over this. here we are. ready? really? they're complaining. actually, don't complain. you're going to be the only ones that anyone will see on television tonight. in a certain way they have the
best location. you'll be happy tonight watching yourself on television. so last night, so they do all these polls and it is great. they poll everything. you know what? it is amazing to me. the candidates go out and spend hundreds of thousands for pollsters, right? i don't. i got a lot of money and doesn't matter. unlimited campaign. and yet. think of this. think of this. think of this. so jeb bush so the point spent over $40 million for ads. he's at 2%. 2%. donald trump until this point has spent $211,000. i don't know why i spent it. i think i wanted to give some -- no. it's true. i'm at number one by a lot. by 27, 30 points. i'm a lot. so think of it. bouldn wouldn't it be nice to do that for our country? so, i spent the least. and i have the best