tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC December 28, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PST
and he is a sacred cow up there. >> we'll be watching. great to have both of you with us. >> thank you. thanks for all of you watching msnbc live. i'll see you back tomorrow tonight. \s trump throws shade at big bill. let's play "hardball." good evening, everyone. i'm joy reed in for chris matthews. we are awaiting a campaign rally in new hampshire from the man who continues to top the republican presidential polls. yes, you guessed it, donald j. trump. we'll bring that to you live when it happens. >> let's start with what seems to be the front-runner's attempts to vault right past the primaries and look to a general election matchup with hillary clinton. case in point, trump's escalating attacks on the man
who legend has it, encouraged him to run for president in the first place, bill clinton. according to trump, the former president and his scandals are fair game for attacks today. trump tweeted today if hillary thinks she can unleash her husband with his terrible record of women abuse while playing the woman card on me, she's wrong. on saturday he tweeted, hillary clinton has announced that she is letting her husband out to cam tan, but he's demonstrated a penchant for sexism. so inappropriate." that followed hillary clinton's own charge of sexism against the republican front-runner last week. trump used vulgarity to describe clinton's loss to barack obama in 2008. >> i really deplore the tone of his campaign and the
inflammatory rhetoric. this is not the first time he's demonstrated a penchant for sexism and so i'm not sure, again, anybody is surprised that he keeps pushing the envelope. >> yesterday trump made it clear he was ready and willing to go after the former president as a way of attacking secretary clinton. >> i think he is fair game because his presidency was really considered to be very troubled, to put it mildly because of all the things that she's talking to me about. she's mentioning sexism. she's got to be careful. it's got to be fair. we all have to fight fairly and we have to fight for the good of the country, for the good of the people, for the good of everybody. we have to fight fairly. she is playing the woman's card. it's like, give me a break. >> all righty. late today, the clinton campaign responded, though donald trump pushed around nearly all his fellow republicans, hillary clinton won't be bullied or distracted by attacks that he
throws at her and former president clinton." they announced bill clinton will make his first campaign trip for his wife. he'll visit new hampshire next week. eugene robinson is a columnist with "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. francesca, i'm going to play the woman card a little bit. the idea and irony of donald trump accusing bill clinton of being sexist and having a penchant for sexism, your thoughts? >> i think he is trying to take the issue off the table. i think we all remember so well in that first republican debate when megyn kelly came in with the names he called women in the past and he didn't like that very much. i think what trump was trying to do here was say, look, if you want to call me a sexist, i'll bring up some of the things your husband does.
i don't think hillary clinton wants to have that conversation during the presidential race. she could back off on this issue. >> my question is whether or not it's realistic to expect this campaign to be litigated on the basis of the 1990s. for a lot of younger voters, they probably don't know what donald trump is talking about. is that smart politics to use the throwback strategy? >> a lot of youngers voters won't respond. trump's base probably will respond. they generally probably don't like bill clinton. if you're hillary clinton, seems to me you have to think that you bring bill clinton along and so you bring bill clinton's past along, and indeed the whole bill and hillary clinton past along. that's been litigated and relitigated. i can't imagine she is unprepared to litigate it again.
>> indeed. trump is not the first republican to try this gambit, to try to rile up the republican base by attacking bill clinton. earlier senator rand paul repeatedly took swipes at the former president. >> he took advantage of a girl that was 20 years old and an intern in his office. there is no excuse for that. that is predatory behavior. >> sexual predator basically. repetiti repetitive. >> anybody who wants to raise money for clinton should give the money back. >> republican lead er got in on the attack. i'm remembering if republicans are wedded to the '90s version they can't get off this page. >> there is no reason for them
to get off this page. this is the double-edged sword that is the clinton name. this is something hillary clinton knew she was carrying into the election. you have the successes of the clinton administration. you would have her successes of being part of the obama administration. but you carry years of baggage. if it is a trump/clinton campaign in a general election or anybody against hillary clinton in the general election, we'll be hearing again about the rose law firm billing records what happened to watergate, does bill clinton have illegitimate children heigiding in alabama? this is part of the conversation. this is how you take down a clinton in any election. >> the question i have to ask is for women voters, the idea that you attack a woman who has her own credentials that she is running for president on, and your attacks are based on her husband, i wonder if you're hearing that it might not be such a good idea to not focus on
the woman running, but go after her man? >> another issue here dangerous for donald trump is he is also on his third wife. he's twice divorced. this is sort of a topic i don't think he would want anyone to be looking into his past and his past marriages and bring up his personal life. when it's come up so far, he hasn't taken kindly to that and hit out at reporters who have done that. it comes back to the fact, is this what donald trump wants to make this election about? >> republicans are not all onboard, necessarily, with the idea of getting hillary by going after her husband. on fox news today, carly fiorina asked if bill clinton was fair game. >> of course bill clinton is fair game. he's a former president, but you're not going to be beat hillary clinton by attacking bill clinton. you are going to beat hillary clinton, i'm going to beat hillary clinton by attacking her track record and lack of trustworthiness.
of course she is going to play the woman card. that's what she does. >> mike huckabee said clinton was fair game but said attacking the former president could backfire. >> nothing's backfired on donald trump yet. i put my money on him. the clintons have vulnerability here. >> bill clinton is an asset. is he a liability for hillary clinton? >> he is probably not because he is immensely popular with democrats. that is what this process is right now. he is still popular with a lot of americans. frankly, after seven years of obama, a lot of republicans would take bill clinton back, warts and all just because at least he understood how to govern. >> eugene, if you want to make this election about bill clinton, republicans would then have to also remind the public of the parts of the clinton administration that they frankly like, namely the economy, no? >> yeah. they would. people would bring that up if the economy did very well under
bill clinton. bill clinton has an eight-year record as president. there are highs around certainly lows. if you want to go back through all of that, i think it's at best a wash for republicans. potentially, it does turn off, i think, certainly turns off democrats with whom bill clinton remains popular. i think it turns off independents, as well. i don't know if anybody really wants to go down that road. we'll see. donald trump is the expert at going down roads nobody thinks he's going down, right? who knows? he might let loose with both barrels. >> i'm wondering if it makes sense as a strategic matter to decide it's going to go down the road of being the party that hectors a past president about sex. didn't they try that in the '90s and lose doing that? >> be careful not to conflate
what donald trump's strategy du jour is. i would say one of his top advisors who has written a book about the clinton sex scandals of the past, so it's not unfamiliar territory for trump. but again, bill clinton will be part of the conversation if hillary clinton is the candidate. she's already said he will be an advisor, he'll have a role in the white house. it's fair to say, well, what are you going to call on clinton to do and do we trust bill clinton based on his record? pretty sure of the rest of the party is not interested in relitigating the monica lewinsky story. lord knows i'm not interested getting back to that again. >> it's going to come up no matter what. >> donald trump was greeted with a scathie ining editorial.
trump has shown himself to be a crude blow hard with no clear political philosophy and no deeper understanding of the important and serious role of president of the united states than one of the goons he lets rough up protesters in his crowds. he reminds us of the grown-up bully biff in the "back to the future" movie series." in an interview today, trump called mcquaid a real low life and pointed out mcquaid is backing chris christie. donald trump said we ought to be talking about things good for the country. is the proper deportment of a president calling people a low life? >> of course that is not proper decorum. he did prove the point. but that seems to be beside the point. it seems to embolden and
encourage his supporters than turn them off. i think he knows that. to go back to something paul singer said which is absolutely right. donald trump may not have strategy, but he has instincts. he tries things out. he sees how they play and reads the room. he comes to a decision about whether he wants to pursue this line of attack. that's what he did with jeb bush and low energy. that got a response out of the crowds. it got a response out of jeb bush. he kept pushing it and pushing it. i suspect depending on the response he gets going after bill clinton, he'll decide whether or not to pursue it. >> indeed. donald trump stepped up to the microphone.
>> we have to get out and vote no matter what's going on in your life, if you're feeling miserable, depressed, down, whatever the hell, you lost your job, like everybody else is losing their job, you have to get out and you have to vote. i was watching "today" television. with trump we get by far the biggest crowds. they said if those people go out and vote, the dishonest press back there say, i don't think they will. i think they will. they said no. if they actually go out and vote, the people that show up in iowa, we had massive, virginia, dallas, oklahoma, south carolina, north carolina, we have these massive rallies and it's incredible. they said if they vote, trump wins. they said that. we have to get out and vote.
okay. we had some amazing news. i missed this. for like a week and a half we've been in limbo, right? all i could do is tweet. it was driving me crazy. we all had a good christmas, right? merry christmas. we say merry christmas. other people won't say merry christmas. they'll say happy holiday. merry christmas, folks. the polls have been fantastic. i've seen the polls that came out. today one came out where i'm tied with hillary. don't worry. that's going to end. we are going to be far ahead. fox came out a couple of weeks ago and we were leading. another one came out, we were leading. we are doing very well. you know, she says we would love to run against trump. it's her worst nightmare. these people, these people back here, they said, well, the
hillary campaign said they would love to run. yeah. she wants to run against me instead of somebody else. i guarantee you -- i tried to explain to chuck todd and all these guys. you don't understand, chuck. when they say they want to run against trump, that means they don't want to run against trump. they don't understand. you know they report, yes. then tonight somebody reported that they are absolutely going crazy and they are devastated over what trump is saying. now we're getting back to the basics. okay? look at what's happened with the republicans. every single person that's gone after me is gone. they're gone. they're gone. when i say gone, they've either left the race or they're down in the very, very low portion. they're low. they're low. with all the millions we are spending -- you saw the one
where i've spent essentially nothing and bush spent $59 million. he is down towards the bottom. look at these polls. it's crazy. we have numbers. we have to go through them, right? go through them for a second. we have to. you know, they always say, why do you go through the polls? because i'm winning. honestly if i wasn't, i have to be honest, if i wasn't, i wouldn't be talking about them. the other candidates, he always talks about the polls, we don't. they shouldn't because they are not winning. cnn, 36%. think of it. cruz is 16, carson 14, rubio 12, bush is 3%. how about this, you spend $59 million and you're 3%. you know what's impressive, the economy, trump is 55%.
on the budget, trump is 51%. how about this? that's out of 15 people. was 17%, 15%, it's going down. one thing i have to tell you, new hampshire will always maintain its place if i win. there is a big movement to put you at the back of the pack or the middle of the pack so it would no longer be the same thing. you'll never see a lot of people again. there is a big movement to put new hampshire way back. i don't know why. i don't know is it retribution? they don't want it? you have a lot of power. you have a lot of power. buy it. they have a heroin problem
that's incredible. we are going to build a border. that heroin thing, we have to get it under control. you don't think of it in terms of new hampshire. when i'm up here, i hear more about it here. we've got to solve the problem and help the people hooked. they get hooked and it's not easy. on the budget, i'm 51%. that's 51% with 14 and 15 people. 51%. i would be happy if i had 51% with two people, right? on illegal immigration, listen to this. 48%. because they know i'm not going to play games. i saw one of the people i'm running against the other day. they came up and said, we are going to build a wall. first time he said that. my wife was listening. she said, darling, he's copying you. he said it's going to be a big wall. it's going to be a great wall. he said the same words. listen to it. i listened to it. i said what are we doing here? the guy is copying.
if you remember when i started this whole dialogue and we announced on june 16th at trump tower, and i said illegal immigration and we are going to stop it. everybody said the papers and i was getting absolutely rush limbaugh who is a great guy said he's never received anybody getting so much incomeine incom. these guys were killing me. then two, three weeks people said i think he's right. then you had beautiful kate from san francisco and jamil from los angeles, a woman, a veteran, wonderful woman, 66-year-old veteran who was raped, who was sodomized, who was killed by illegal immigrant who was here, who was not supposed to be here came in a number of times. the kate horrible person came in five different times they know of. these are three instances. >> donald trump speaking at a
campaign rally in new hampshire. so donald trump doesn't make news. it's about the people who like him. when you're doing reporting, whether or not establishment republicans are concerned that this sort of minimalist approach is working and that nothing they're trying to do to promote their alternative front-runner ideas is working? >> we posted a story today at "usa today" that we were counting up facebook data. in the week running up to christmas, donald trump got 50 million interactions on facebook, which doubled the amount of all the other candidates combined. that's likes, shares, posts and comments. 50 million people in a week were talking about him. there is no way you can get any other message out over that kind of noise.
for any republicans concerned about, particularly if you're looking at establishment republicans of washington wanting to hold on to the senate where there's a bunch of more centrist races they are facing in places like new hampshire and colorado and nevada, they are very concerned that a donald trump message that is this belicose could be detrimental in their states if there is a different candidate does that person get tarred with some of what donald trump has said? >> this content-free. he is not having to do or say anything to keep his supporters loyal. he said the democrats only pretending to want to run against him. they really wouldn't mind running against this guy. >> i don't think hillary clinton would mind running against him versus a marco rubio who is young, dynamic, hispanic. i think she would rather run
against donald trump instead. one of the other things he is very good at doing instinctively is he hits the media a lot. tonight he called them the dishonest media. this goes back to way did in new hampshire today. conservatives love hitting the mainstream immediamedia. trump picked up on that and aggressively hits the media over and over again. he spends a lot of his time hitting the media. it's working for him. >> i'm a skeptic of what you said on marco rubio. i want to give you the last word on this, eugene. a lot of what you're hearing about attacking the media, the way he goes after the crowd, does it remind you of sarah palin as much as it does me? >> yeah. it's sarah palin, but he is better at it.
trump is, in a weird way, an astounding political talent. if you look at where he came from, never having run for anything, never having been elected to anything and look where he is now. he has a way of staging and conducting these rallies. that has mesmerized a lot of people. you can never say never with the guy at this point. i do believe that hillary clinton would absolutely love to run against donald trump because she's got to calculate there are a lot of republicans out there who won't be able to pull the lever for him, who won't be able to vote for donald trump. i think that is probably a good calculation. we'll have to see if people vote for him when the caucuses begin and primaries begin. >> indeed.
eugene robinson, francesca chambers and paul singer, thank you both. a decision in cleveland from the grand jury which was deciding whether to press charges against the two police officers who shot and killed 12-year-old tamir rice. mayor rahm emanuel changes policies on police shootings in chicago after two people were left dead in a police-involved incident over the weekend. this is "hardball," the place for politics. what do doctors from leading cancer centers in the country have in common?
welcome back to "hardball." we've got two big headlines tonight involving police shootings. in cleveland, a grand jury has chosen not to indict any police officers in the killing of 12-year-old tamir rice who was shot by police while carrying a pelt gun in november of 2014. prosecutor tim mcginty told reporters today he and his team recommended no charges. rice's family has been critical throughout of the prosecutor's
handling of the case. >> tonight chicago mayor rahm emanuel cut his vacation short after more calls for his resignation following another police-involved shooting over the weekend. on saturday morning, chicago police fatally shot 19-year-old after responding to a 911 call regarding a domestic dispute. a statement by the police department says officers opened fire after being confronted by a, quote, combative subject. a chicago affiliate is reporting that he suffered mental illness this fall but was not violent. and his 55-year-old neighbor bettie jones was struck and tragically killed. both deaths are ruled as homicides. in the aftermath, mayor rahm emanuel ordered a series of police reforms. officers involved in shootings will now be placed on
administrative duty for 30 days. he has directed authorities to conduct a review of the deescalation policies, including how officers respond to mental health crises, saying the changes we made are just the beginning, not an end. we are joined by sarah in chicago. changes will be made putting officers on administrative leave. did the mayor explain why that policy wasn't in place before? >> you mentioned the changes to put people on administrative leave for 30 days. he doesn't touch on why that doesn't done before. he focuses on the few tire saying this will allow them to assess the officers' training and if they are fit to go back to duty during that 30-day period. another critical change he is looking at is an overview of the crisis intervention and deescalation policies of the department. those are guidance to officers how to work with ordeal with
someone suffering from an emotional disturbance or mental illness. currently those policies in place don't require mandatory training. the training is voluntary. less than 20% of police officers here in chicago have undergone that training. when the mayor said he was cutting his vacation short to come back here, he said that is to address and continue to work on building trust between the community, law enforcement and officials. he is expected back here tomorrow. i asked his spokesman will there be any press statement? will he be visiting the family? that spokesman said we will lay out what he plans to do in the next steps when he arrives back here in chicago. >> thank you. this latest incident comes after the release of police dash cam video showing a chicago police officer shooting mcdonald 16 times in 2014. the fallout resulted in first degree murder charges against
the officer and prompted the resignation of the city's police superintendent as well as chief of detectives and the head of the police review authority. the fallout from that incident evoked an emotional reaction from mayor emanuel. >> one young man asked me a simple question that gets to the core of what we're talking about. he said, do you think the police would ever treat you the way they treat me? and the answer is no. and that is wrong. and that has to change in this city. that has to come to an end and end now. no citizen is a second class citizen in the city of chicago.
>> clarence page is a pulitzer prize-winning columnist with the "chicago tribune" and ron reagan is an msnbc contributor. that was a lot of emotion out of rahm emanuel about a month ago. one wonders whether actual procedures were changed between the laquan mcdonald, the huge blow-up over that incident and two people being shot, one of them reportedly by accident. >> right. one thing you see there is mayor emanuel trying to change the conversation, trying to change his previous stance which had been passive almost indifference as far as most people were concerned when the laquan mcdonald case first broke. the mayor says he never saw the video even though he knew about it.
the district attorney's office didn't act on it until the video came out. we had a national controversy. now mayor emanuel is trying to show he really does care. he is trying to do something to change the department and change the culture because there is an old-time chicago police culture and political culture. i shouldn't have to go into detail on that any mayor has to contend with. mayor emanuel didn't think it was that important until the laquan mcdonald controversy blew up and talk about him quitting or being impeached, if they can get a bill through the state legislature. there is great concern and including from mayor emanuel's office about changing that atmosphere. >> knowing what you know of rahm emanuel, how likely it would be he or anita alvarez facing the same call to step down, how likely it would be either would fold and leave office?
>> you'll see donald trump step down before emanuel will. he was re-elected last spring. while people had not seen that laquan mcdonald video yet. people find that to be suspicious. no one is charging him with a cover-up. but the coincidence is too great the mayor's office and district attorney's office seem to be sitting on the case rather than moving ahead with it. state attorney alvarez is facing a primary in march and she's got stiff opposition. she is in political trouble because of this issue. >> i want to broaden this out. did you have the cleveland prosecutor say there would be no charges. this is not just a chicago problem, obviously. do you see the portent of political problems for prosecutors who are democrats in these big cities based on these
cases? >> the problem with the prosecutors, democrats or republicans, prosecutors don't prosecute most of the time it seems when police are the target of their prosecution. mcginty's remarks after the grand jury came back refusing to indict the officer in cleveland were in defense of the officer. he put expert witnesses on the stand who defended the officer. that's not what he is a a prosecutor is supposed to be doing. he is supposed to make the case for prosecution and let somebody defend the officer. as i understand it. you are right. this is a much bigger problem than chicago. we have a problem in this country with police violence and gun violence. we have a problem in the country with violence and gun violence in general. so perhaps that is not surprising. we have seen videos at the very
best where you can say police officers in question exhibited flawed tactics and too quick a resort to violence, indicating a lack of training on their part. then there is the accountability issue we touched on with prosecutors who don't prosecute. >> what would a process look like to change that? dash cam won't change that, right? >> no. it's got to start, a main element has to be retraining of police officers. look what happens in england recently, a week or two ago there was a man in a tube station attacking people with a knife. eventually lunged at police officers who responded with a knife. did they shoot him? no. they didn't. they eventually subdued him, deescalated the situation and subdued him without anybody being harmed except one person was cut in a minor way in the initial attack. here that man would have been
shot and killed instantly soon as he made a move for them. why can't we teach officers here to deescalate situations and not resort to often-fatal violence over trivial offenses? >> particularly since as is the case in chicago, the training on deescalation appears to be optional. we are back with much more after this. what if one sit-up could prevent heart disease? one. wishful thinking, right? but there is one step you can take to help prevent another serious disease. pneumococcal pneumonia. if you are 50 or older, one dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you from pneumococcal pneumonia, an illness that can cause coughing, chest pain, difficulty breathing, and may even put you in the hospital. even if you have already been vaccinated with another pneumonia vaccine, prevnar 13® may help provide additional protection. prevnar 13® is used in adults 50 and older to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that cause
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welcome back to "hardball." congressman trey gowdy of south carolina is expected to offer his full support to marco rubio in iowa tomorrow. best known for his role as chairman of the house select committee on benghazi, gowdy revealed some of what we can expect to hear tomorrow in a statement over the weekend. "marco is a rock solid conservative and a strong leader we can trust. i look forward to campaigning in iowa with him, and introducing my good friend to voters across the state." while it's sure to be a big moment for rubio, the expected endorsement comes as establishment candidates are struggling to gain traction against donald trump and other washington outsiders. according to the latest cnn opinion research poshlgs the combined support for outsider
candidates donald trump, cruz and carson represent 67% of the electorates. while marco rubio, chris christie and jeb bush garner a combined total of 18%. he slammed hillary clinton during her 11-hour testimony before the benghazi committee in october. >> he hopes he does a better job than he did at the benghazi hearings. they were a total disaster. he didn't win with those hearings. it was a total, not good for republicans and for the country. beyond republicans, it was very bad for the country. i hope he does a lot better for marco than he did for the benghazi hearings. >> i'm joined by the "hardball" round table.
rebecca, in any political universe, is it a good thing for marco rubio to have the backing of an establishmentarian like mr. gowdy? >> maybe in an alternate political universe, not in the one we are currently living in. here's the thing. in this election cycle, republican voters have been drawn to donald trump because he is not a republican elected official, because he represents the exact opposite of what we consider the republican establishment. trey gowdy, though well respected among conservatives and was one of the first elected official to come of the tea party wave, the fact is he is an elected official. it doesn't do marco rubio a lot of good in terms of getting votes from some of these trump supporters to have trey gowdy backing him. what it might do is help marco rubio establish himself as the natural moderator moderate to conservative alternative to donald trump. it's a crowded lane right now. he might need that report.
>> 18%. all the national moderate republicans 18%. even if marco rubio manages to win in new hampshire, the primary calendar appears to favor a conservative like trump or ted cruz. among the 12 super tuesday states that hold their contest on march 1st, there are more deep red in southern states than past election cycles. they include alabama, arkansas, georgia, tennessee, sr. and ted cruz' home state of texas. there are a lot of establishment people who love marco rubio, who want to put forward theories how marco rubio could become the nominee. explain given that map and that math, where does marco rubio win, even if he wins new hampshire? where else could he possibly win? >> i'm not trying to dodge the question, but all republicans don't know what his path is until after iowa or new hampshire.
there is expectation if he gets the ticket out of iowa, he moves up to new hampshire. a lot of his fate depends on how long jeb bush wants to stick in this, whether chris christie outperforms in new hampshire. everything i mention is a momentum factor. the trey gowdy endorsement is another one of those. this is somebody who famously and proudly does not get that involved in grassroots machine-building politics, but is behind rubio because his nomination makes the most sense from his perspective rebranding the republican party. rubio needs other people to punch each other out in order for him to fill that role. he is not filling it himself or building the kind of campaign that wins in alabama himself. >> i love the mustache, but you did dodge the question. you didn't name a state he could win. when we come back, i'll go to susan first. up next, if trump voters can be won over by another candidate, is that candidate bernie sanders?
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there's no "deep couch sitting." it's definitely not good for my back. this is the part i really don't like right here. (doorbell) what's that? a package! it's a swiffer wetjet. it almost feels like it's moving itself. this is kind of fun. that comes from my floor? eww! this is deep couch sitting. deep couch sitting! i am a lot of things. i am his sunshine. i am his advocate. so i asked about adding once-daily namenda xr to his current treatment for moderate to severe alzheimer's. it works differently. when added to another alzheimer's treatment, it may improve overall function and cognition. and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. vo: namenda xr doesn't change how the disease progresses. it shouldn't be taken by anyone allergic to memantine, or who's had a bad reaction to namenda xr or its ingredients. before starting treatment, tell their doctor if they have, or ever had, a seizure disorder, difficulty passing urine, liver, kidney or bladder problems, and about medications they're taking.
certain medications, changes in diet, or medical conditions may affect the amount of namenda xr in the body and may increase side effects. the most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, and dizziness. he's always been my everything. now i am giving back. ask their doctor about once-daily namenda xr and learn about a free trial offer at namendaxr.com. we are back with the roundtable. now, this weekend, democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders made an appeal to donald trump supporters in an attempt to persuade white working class voters to back him over the republican front-runner. sanders is saying that his message, much like trump's, addresses middle class anxiety over jobs and the economy. here's sanders yesterday on "face the nation." >> many of trump's supporters are working class people and they are angry. they are angry because they are working longer hours for lower
wages. they're angry because their jobs have left this country and gone to china or other low wage countries. they're angry because they can't afford to send their kids to college and they can't retire with dignity. i think four years, middle class, i think we can make the case that if we really want to address the issues that people are concerned about, why the middle class is disappearing. massive income and wealth inequality in this country, that we need policies that bring us together. >> trump responded on twitter this morning saying, strange, but i see wacky bernie sanders allies coming over to me because i'm lowering taxes while he will double and triple them, a disaster. susan, you drew the short straw and you're going to have to talk about this one. >> everything is a disaster. >> exactly. i wonder because in new hampshire, susan, there's such a huge percentage of that voting population, more than 40%, that are independent. so it makes sense for bernie sanders to go for any independent.
but in your view, which is more likely in independents who lean towards trump deciding to vote for bernie sanders because they have more influence in that primary or hard core trump supporters deciding that they're okay with marco rubio? >> those are apples and oranges here. i don't think you can look at alabama until we're done with new hampshire and hiiowa. secondly, i think cruz is mostly popular with evangelicals. it doesn't sound crazy that bernie sanders would be appealing to trump voters because sometimes when you're on the opposite end of the spectrum, they meet behind the curtain. there are also anti-hillary people who are supporting trump. i don't see people going the other way. i don't see would be sanders supporters voting for trump. he's not going to get clinton people to come over to his side.
i don't think it's out of the question he could pick up some trump voters in new hampshire. >> we don't have hardly any time at all but i want to come back to you quickly, dave. the reason i ask the question is the idea you can get a trump type voter to vote for marco rubio seems to be more insane that a voter would vote for bernie sanders? >> there are people who hate what they see as the political system. even though bernie sanders has been part of it for half of his life, it is don't see him as dishonest. someone was telling me that bernie sanders is the most popular, most well liked candidate running, and that's pretty transferable. there are voters who are not going down a checklist of policies who want somebody who seems to be anti-washington and both of those guys fit the bill. more voters than you might think. >> we're going to have more "hardball" after this.
we're back. quickly tell me who's going to win new hampshire, starting with rebecca. >> bernie sanders on the democratic side. donald trump by a lot for republicans. >> susan? >> clinton on the democratic side although sanders is going to do respectivelily. on the republican side i'll say rubio. >> i think clinton on the democratic side and trump for new hampshire although the race for second place will be the
real winner, the real comeback kid. >> thank you for the roundtable. that does it for me and "hardball." "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> joe mcquaid is a real low life, no question about it. >> a full on air ware in new hampshire. >> this man is absolutely terrible. >> donald trump alleges a republican conspiracy to defeat him in the granite state, and he says he knows who's behind him. >> that's why i go against chris christie. he's the one that got mcquaid to do this. then why the republican front-runner is officially feeling the bern. >> he has said that he thinks wages in america are too high. and no charges in cleveland. >> the evidence did not indicate criminal conduct by police. >> making sense of the tamir rice announcement when "all in" starts right now. good evening