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tv   MSNBC Live With Kate Snow  MSNBC  December 30, 2015 12:00pm-2:01pm PST

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day all over this country, often groups of rape victims that i'm representing, she's not alleged to have been raped here, sometimes they really have to process it. they have to think about what just happened. come to terms with it. seek sometimes the support of family, friends, a counselor, a minister, a rabbi, a priest. attorneys, so many others before they make that decision as to, well, which option are they going to exercise. what options do they even have? and it can be very intimidating to go up against a celebrity who has an army of attorneys. in this case, for the civil case, he has 700 attorneys. >> what? >> yes. he has 700 attorneys. quinn and emanuel. in our civil case, mr. singer representing him and then a few
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days after our deposition mr. cosby and mr. singer suddenly not representing him and substituted out and quinn and emanuel substituted in 700 attorneys and he hired 700 attorneys to fight 1 woman. there can be many reasons why there's a brief delay in reporting or a longer delay in reporting. any other question? >> you're filing for a second -- you take a second deposition based on questions that mr. cosby did not answer in the first deposition. can you comment on his demeanor while he was being -- >> no. i can't comment on anything. >> not if he was evasive -- >> no. i'm an officer of the court and i have to obey the court and the court doesn't want comment on that deposition unless and until there's a hearing wherein the court decides to lift the
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protective order. and i don't expect that to happen in january because i know the court wants to also not only review the transcript and the video of mr. cosby's deposition, but court also indicated it wants to review the transcript and deposition of our client's deposition which won't happen until january 29th. so, no. i can't -- i can't comment about any of that. >> how stunned were you about today's actions? did you have any idea that this was going to happen? >> no. >> so that is bolt out of the blue? >> well, i was aware there was a criminal investigation. i'll just leave it at this. >> but there have been a lot of criminal investigations. >> that's true. and i was aware that there is a statute of limitations in pennsylvania for the prosecution of a criminal case. and that that statute of
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limitation limitations required that there be a decision within a short time period. so i knew it would be within this time frame. not necessarily today but within a very short time frame but, yes, i was stunned it happened this morning. >> and the idea, if it goes to trial, based on who he is and 700 attorneys and unlimited money, can he ever be prosecuted? can he ever be found guilty? >> by the way, those 700, i don't know if any of them will be representing him in the criminal case in pennsylvania. i'm not -- i don't know who will be representing him there in montgomery county, whether it's anyone from that law firm or another law firm. i don't know. i know it from the point of the view of the civil case. >> how about the chance of him ever being convicted?
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>> in the criminal case? >> yeah. >> i really can't comment on that because i'm not aware of all of the evidence that the district attorney has but it's clear that the district attorney's office believes -- >> gloria allred continuing her news conference there on the right side of the screen. on the left side of your screen bill cosby leaving the police station there in elkins park, pennsylvania, where he was finger printed and mugshot was taken. minutes before that a judge set bail at $1 million. he will be free on bail. the passport is turned over and, again, bill cosby leaving this news conference. excuse me. leaving the police station. news conference continues there. the whole thing taken about 35 minutes roughly 20 minutes at
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the courthouse and then another 10 minutes or so inside the police station and we do not know at this point where bill cosby heads from here. but again, we can also tell you at this point he is expected to be back in court on january 14th. january 14th is the next time bill cosby will be in a courtroom. we do not know what exactly will transpire there on the 14th. working to find out there but you can see the crush of reporters there encircling that black suv with bill cosby and his attorneys inside. i believe we want to listen in a bit now on gloria allred and we should note gloria allred said she represents 29, 29 of the other women accusing bill cosby of similar things. allred does not represent the woman who is at the center of the case that triggered the charges today. we should also note here there was some confusion over first or second degree. there's a news conference this
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morning, the district attorney said that cosby being charged with first-degree aggravated indecent assault. we received clarification shortly after that news conference wrapped up that the district attorney had essentially spoken in error. cosby being charged, in fact, with second degree and karen, really quickly, the difference between first and second here in terms of potential jail time would be what? >> ten years. >> ten years. let's listen back in to gloria allred here continuing to take questions of reporters in los angeles. >> but now, you know, you've heard the expression there's a new sheriff in town. well, there's a new district attorney just elected. in montgomery county. and he ran against bruce castor. in this recent election. and this new district attorney has been elected. and so, that's kevin r. steele
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whom you saw this morning in a news conference. >> gloria, there are some reports saying that considering his age that he would consider taking a plea deal. what are you, like, a plea bargain, what are your thoughts? >> i have no -- yeah. i have no idea whether a plea will be offered. and if it is offered whether he would accept a plea. i don't know whether his age would factor into it as far as mr. cosby is concerned. i think of him as a young man, actually, business he's only four years older than i am. >> in your meetings with him, did he -- >> all right. gloria allred continuing to take questions there from reporters in los angeles. and on the left side of your screen, bill cosby and two of his attorneys leaving the police station in elkins park,
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pennsylvania. again, just to bring you up to speed, the legendary comedian charged this morning officially with aggravated indecent assault, a few hours later, he appeared before a judge there, the judge took his passport, set bail at $1 million. adam reiss still on the scene there. you're outside the courthouse. is that correct? >> reporter: that's correct. that's correct, craig. he came here 2:30 right on the dot as expected. it was a very short, brief hearing. he walked in. he almost tripped on the curb. seeming very fragile. when he entered the courtroom, he had to be directed. we had a producer in the courtroom who described him as a little bit dazed and confused. he had to be directed to the right, someone said, mr. cosby, to the right, to the left. he sat down, the judge read the charges. she read what would be the bail which would be $1 million. she said that you cannot have any contact with the accuser,
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apparently after that he mumbled a little bit and she had to repeat yourself that you cannot have any contact with the accuser and he was on his way out to the police department. craig? >> the accuser in this case, andrea constand, i spoke to her attorney earlier. she is working in canada. they're not going to be making any sort of comment about this case since it is now officially a criminal case. i'm joined here once again by seema ire, karen desoto and also kendall coffey. former federal prosecutor also standing by. we have a lot of prosecutors here. but we also have kate snow who's covering this story from the very beginning. we heard gloria allred say in that news conference that, again, she represents first of all she represents far more of the women than i realized she represents and acknowledged nearly all of the women the
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statute of limitations had passed. the women you have talked to, if the statute of limitations passed, if they can't get any money out of bill cosby, if they know that he can't go to jail for what he allegedly did to them, why are they coming forward? why did they come forward? >> it is an interesting question. and it's complicated question, right? it's complex. so the women i have spoken to and by the way there are now around 50 women who have come public and presented their stories in public. i spoke to about 29 or 30 of them. and gloria allred represents some of them but not all of those i spoke with. look. it's complex. they say that years ago when these events happened and some are now 20, 30, 40 years ago, craig, as you know that they didn't feel empowered to come forward in some cases. they didn't feel they could. they didn't feel that anyone would believe them and in come cases time passed for them to file criminal charges. things were very different they would tell you in the '60s and
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'70s and not as easy they would say to come forward with allegations like this. but now, they feel as several of them said to me, they found their voices. right? all these years later, andrea constand, ten years ago she comes forward. goes to police. tries to get criminal charges filed. they don't file. she then files a civil suit and settles out of court with bill cosby and in the context of the original civil suit in 2004, all these women came forward object 12 or 13, called jane does. they didn't want to give the real names but to be there for her to support her and they weren't needed because the case settled out of court and then last year when the comedian started to talking about bill cosby and joking about him as part of the comedy routine came to the fore again and some of the women speaking out again and we all know now that it sort of
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became a wave of women. there was one and then two and then five and then ten and now at 50. and now when you talk to women, as i did back in august in a big group setting, they say they all feel a comradery and a strange sense of sisterhood with each other. although they did not -- they'll note did not know each other before any of this. >> why no charges? why no charges initially back in 2004 in pennsylvania? >> the prosecutor there at that time, castor, said that he did not have enough evidence to convict. he said quite simply, did i think -- i'm paraphrasing, did i think there was something there? maybe. did i have enough to criminally charge and convict, no. what changed today and what changed this year in 2015 is that after he decided not to press criminal charges and andrea constand goes forward with a civil case, bill cosby was deposed n. that civil case. that deposition was sealed, locked away.
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nobody ever saw it until this summer. so this summer the local prosecutor in montgomery county, a new person at this point, sees the deposition and that is what they're calling new evidence today in order to file this new criminal charge. >> is there any reason to believe at this point that there will be more women who come forward? do we know after any women who perhaps have talked -- have you talked to women -- >> i have reason to believe there are more and some women i'm talking to say there are more who aren't comfortable having their name in the lights right now. it's a very -- it's a very difficult thing to put your name out there and to appear over and over again on television screens. >> kendall, i want to bring you here into the conversation really quickly. we know that over the past few weeks and still trying to figure out precisely when but bill cosby filed the defamation so t
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suits, is that some sort of legal strategy perhaps? >> i think it was a legal strategy that anticipated that there were going to be criminal charges. and the cosby defense team wants to be able to take depositions. of other accusers. remember, this is just a he said/she said. this is a he said and dozens of others who also said. so, he's got to fight not only a single accuser but a lot of them. it becomes an insurmountable murd burden. i think there's a ruling and whether the testimony of other accusers comes in, i think this is an almost impossible case for him to win and at that point he has to think about a plea deal. >> ladies, how would the judge make that determination? how does the judge decide? >> a motion is filed, craig, and, you know, the serious part of these rape cases is that quite frankly you could spend more time on the motions than you do on the actual trial and
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why is that? because each victim who's testifying you have to authenticate their testimony. each one has to testify essentially for the judge to decide whether that testimony is coming in, coming out, whether it's outside the statute of limitations, whether he finds that their credibility, there's a witness. so there's all kinds of information and could take a long time. >> absolutely. that's going to be weighed against the potential prejudice. one issue is so many of these women, is it cumulative, too many people saying the same exact thing? do we need that many women? will the judge pick and choose certain women to establish what the prosecution wants? >> filing complaints for instance f. you didn't file a police report, the judge won't let you testify. that's one way of trying to narrow down the field. kate's correct. it is very complex because you have so many women. but the underpinning is really the same. it's shame and it's embarrassment and that's why they don't come forward and coming forward later not just hurts yourself but other people who have been victimized.
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>> right. and the earlier hour, kate, you mentioned that when you interviewed the 27 women, you almost uncovered a pattern, not identical but a pattern and the law recognizes that. the law recognizes in order to prosecute someone you may need to show a pattern in order to get over the hurdle of the women not being believed. >> if there is a trial and we hear from these women, some of these accusers inside this courtroom, could that then mean bill cosby sits on a stand and has to explain, not just what happened with regards to this case, but also, has to spend time talking about more than four dozen other instances? >> i don't think any criminal defense attorney is going to put bill cosby on the stand only because there's 50 women. >> if they can keep him off. >> yeah. i mean, you would be -- you would have him on there for a month. >> years. >> answering questions. once he says you can impeach him
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with anything under the sun and admissions and see him testify unless, you know -- >> angela rose is the executive director of the sexual violence survivors add vocacy empowermen. what say you to all of this? >> well, i think that this is such an important moment in our nation's history because the issues culminating and 9 out of 10 women in college raped don't report the crime. for so often the survivors oftentimes it's very difficult for people to move forward, try to report. from my own case, i was kidnapped from a shopping mall and when i tried to go to the police, to report what happened to me, i was met with disbelief. i was accused of lying. and it was very difficult for me to try to move forward. and so, i think it's very important for us to use this case as a catalyst moment to
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really understand what survivors are going through. so many people choose not report because of exactly when's talked about. thoughts of disbelief, distrust, d disbelief. it's time for that to change. it is slowly changing. social change is happening but we need to focus on the prevention side of things. and that's where studies show that the best way to prevent sexual assault to start the conversations younger. we have launched a national campaign of risk is. and these wristbands, people write what consent means to them and take to instagram with #consent is and it's time for all of us to stand up and fight and take a stake against sexual assault. >> you know what? perhaps in that same vein, kate, apparently just hearing now from andrea constand through her
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attorney with regards to her reaction to what we have been watching transpire over the past few hours. >> right. this is the woman who's at the center of the case and the reason for this criminal charge today. but remember, she's under a gag order and limited in what she can say and wrote to us through her lawyer, the lawyer says you asked about andrea's reaction and she is gratified with the response. she is receiving numerous communications from women with accounts of their own experiences. naturally, it is troubled it took until the 11th hour for this day to arrive and hopeful that patience has encouraged other victims to come forward. >> this is a basketball photo we should note of andrea constand. he's a former temple university employee who her attorney told me earlier today looked up to bill cosby. bill cosby was on the board of trustees at the time. looked up to him. considered him to be a friend
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and a mentor back when all of this transpired. again, bill cosby expected to be in court again on january 14th. we are going to take a quick break. when we come back, we'll reset for you. this is msnbc. ages 50 to 85. please write down this toll-free number now. right now, in areas like yours, people are receiving this free information kit for guaranteed acceptance life insurance with a rate lock through the colonial penn program. if you're on a fixed income or concerned about rising prices, learn about affordable whole life insurance with a lifetime rate lock that guarantees your rate can never increase for any reason. if you did not receive your information, or if you misplaced it, call this number now and we'll rush it to you. your acceptance is guaranteed, with no health questions. please stand by to learn more. >> i'm alex trebek
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plug in some simple info and get up to 50 free quotes. choose the lowest and hit purchase. now...if you'll excuse me, i'm late for an important function. saving humanity from high insurance rates. bill cosby. iconic comedian. philanthropist. actor. producer. is now free on bail. $1 million bail. set by a judge in pennsylvania. elkins park, pennsylvania. short time ago. his passport is turned over. he's expected in court again on january 14th. this was the scene roughly an hour ago. you see cosby there in a
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sweater, a gray sweater there. flanked by two of his attorneys heading into the courthouse. he was only inside for 15 or 20 minutes. we are told by people who are there inside the courtroom that he had to be helped to his seat. while his attorneys huddled with the judge in that case. after he left the courthouse, once again, you can see him there being aided by two of his attorneys. he's also holding a cane, as well. he hopped into a black suv and drove another mile or two down the street. headed to the police station in elkins park. at that police station, bill cosby, the 78-year-old, was fingerprinted we're told. he was also -- also had his picture taken and a mugshot. we don't have it just yet. we do not know where cosby was headed after that but he has a house there in the area. but again, he is expected back in court on january 14th. bail set at $1 million.
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i do want to bring in right now attorney spencer cuvin representing one of the other nearly 50 women who have come forward to make similar accusations about cosby. we should note here that this is a second-degree felony charge of aggravated indent cent assault, only charge that bill cosby is facing right now. sir, just first of all, your genre action to what we have seen play out over the past few hours? >> well, i can tell you that i've spoken with my client this morning. she's out in california and she saw the news when she spoke up and very happy. in tears, in fact, to see that he was finally, finally brought to justice in the criminal court system. that's what my client always wanted. see mr. cosby face the courts and your for what he's done to these women and over 50 women have come forward and my client
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along with the lady in pennsylvania and one other person in california are the only three that are still within that statute of limitations for charges to be brought so my client's case is still pending with the l.a. district attorney's office right now and now filing charges in pennsylvania, she's hopeful that they'll also bring contemporaneous charges in the l.a. criminal court system. now, we have also filed a federal lawsuit currently pending. but we have it on hold because we're waiting to see what the l.a. district attorney's office is going to do. >> did the district attorney many montgomery county, pennsylvania, reach out to you at any point? >> no. did not reach out to us but the lapd did tell us that they were in communication directly with the pennsylvania district attorney's office, as well as the police department out there. so they have been sharing evidence and information and they did let us know that. >> what's the latest on your client's claim there in los
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angeles? criminal investigation that's under way, any idea on a timetable there? >> no. they didn't tell us exactly what they were going to do or when they were going to do it. what they did say is that they were very serely investigating what charges to bring if any. it has to go through the hierarchy there before they decided what to do but they're going to have to do something by some time in the spring of 2016 because we believe that the criminal statute may run by that point, as well. that's part of the reason why i believe that the pennsylvania district attorney's office filed when they did is because they were on the cusp of a statute that was about to run. >> for folks who are not familiar with your client's specific charges here, what does your client claim bill cosby did to her? >> in 2008, my client was invited to a private party at the playboy mansion. she arrived at the mansion and was introduced to mr. hefner and
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cosby. at that point, mr. cosby offered to get her a drink and went off and brought back a drink and she started to feel nauseous and light headed. at that point, mr. hefner asked her if she would like to go to one of the bedrooms and lie down. she said, yes. mr. cosby offered to show her to the room. on the way she blacked out. the next thing she recalled was waking up on one of the beds with no clothes on. she was in a complete state of undress and mr. cosby was standing over her doing things that she -- that really can't be discussed on television. at that point, when he realized that she had woken up, he was startled, pulled up his pants and she ran out of the room and left the mansion at that point. >> again, for clarification, no charges have been filed in that case we should note. was there is settlement? with that case.
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>> nothing as far as that's concerned. we immediately once my office was retained brought my client to the l.a. police department to file a complaint filed this year in january of 2015. and that's when the criminal investigation was under way in her case. and then my office filed a civil action in federal court recently just a few months back. >> we should note here bill cosby pled not guilty today and he's denied all allegations from the very begins. spencer kuvin, thank you. way tonight bring in kate snow and also eric guster, a legal analyst, a trial attorney here in new york. always appreciate your insight. thank you for being with me. let's talk about what the bar is with regards to a charge like this. i mean, talking second-degree felony, aggravated indecent assault. what does the prosecutor have to prove and how does the prosecution go about proving that in a case where, again,
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presumably, there's no physical evidence left. >> yeah. the burden of proof is very high. it's beyond a reasonable doubt. which is the highest burden of proof in our criminal justice system or civil justice system business the prosecution must prove with evidence, physical evidence or testimony in oshder to show that mr. cosby is actually guilty of the offense. one of the problems of the prosecution's going to have is possibly the lack of physical evidence. juries looking at rape cases want something, some semen or -- trying not to say that on national tv. some body fluids or something that would actually point -- put him there, having sexual intercourse or some other type of touching with this particular accuser. but the good thing that they have is testimony in the deposition of her case. that deposition testimony may be able to come in to show exactly
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what happened with mr. cosby and may bring in other accusers, as well, which that could be very troublesome, especially with the number of people he has accused him. >> kate, legally, the deposition appears to have been a game changer and one could argue when folks read excerpts of that deposition it was also a game changer. >> you remember when that was released this summer, there was a statement that came with it, it was the proeshted press that asked for it to be released and caught in court and the judge at the time, i don't remember the exact words but he wrote a memorandum about why he was releasing the deposition to the public and not whole deposition. >> right. >> but certain sections of it were made public. and he said it was because mr. cosby and i'm going to get -- not an exact quote but basically because he has on his soapbox talking all these years about morals and ethics and being upstanding and all that. and then he was accused by all
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of these women for exactly, you know, for being unethical and so he felt that it was in the public interest to be able to see the words of mr. cosby. >> for folks who might not be familiar with the aforementioned deposition snippets, what was in it? >> so this was the deposition from the andrea constand case, the big headline was that he admitted giving women quaaludes. i wish i had the document in front of me, craig. it is tricky legally here and you can back me up on this. it is -- he did not admit to drugging women without their consent in order to attack them. he did admit to giving them quaaludes with the intention of having sexual relations. i'm not -- that's not a direct quote but essentially what was admitted in that deposition and that was a pivotal thing. >> yes. it's still a big problem because in order to have sex with someone, you must have consent and that's one of the things we teach young men and ladies going
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to school. if someone is unconscious or if they're drugged, if they're -- drank too much, you can have sexual intercourse with them because they can't consent. if bill cosby gave these ladies quaaludes and passed out, couldn't say yes or no, that is not giving consent. oftentimes some sexual predators will say, well, she didn't say no. well, she didn't say yes either. and that's a biggest problem. if she did not say yes, that is a huge problem for cosby. >> all right. let's take a quick break here. when i congresswoman bame back, an attorney, represents seven of cosby's accusers. stay with us. pump up your look
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plumpify your lashes with new plumpify mascara a ginormous lash lifting brush boosts lashes to 50 times the volume and lifts lashes up up and away... new plumpify mascara from easy breezy beautiful covergirl and try new trunaked shadows and liners and that is william henry cosby. that is his government name. that is, of course, the man that the world has come to know as bill cosby. and that is his mugshot. a mugshot snapped in pennsylvania just a few moments
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ago. the mugshot was taken. he was fingerprinted. he's been charged formally with aggravated indecent assault, a second-degree felony. he's been -- he had his passport taken and out free on a $1 million bond and back in court on january 14th. but again, there it is for the first time. bill cosby's mugshot. want to bring back trial attorney and legal analyst eric guster. excuse me. eric guster. also salami sentila at the university of pennsylvania and co-founder of a long walk home, an organization to help to end violence against women and girls. let's start with you. what we have seen, again, we should note, charges filed. he's entered a plea of not guilty. we have roughly 50 women who have come forward with similar stories about bill cosby.
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what does what we have seen transpire today, what does it mean for those women? what does it mean for other women who might be watching or listening who have also been sexually assaulted at some point in their lives? >> yeah. i have grown up with this case as much as i've grown up with cosby being a figure of, you know, this patriarchally figure. i think for women survivors there's a sense of vindication right now. whether cosby will be actually prosecuted and formally, you know, convicted of the crime is almost secondary that the point to the ways in which the public has responded and rallied around these women. belatedly so but at least there's been a new sentiment and a new energy around cosby's allegations against him. >> you use the word belatedly. as you know, as you both know, for a while in this country and especially in our community when there were just a handful of
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women, perhaps, making the claims there's a sentiment, oh, they're gold diggers. trying to tear down bill cosby. what was the turning point? was there some sort of impetus for this shift in terms of public opinion? >> well, i want to say that when the first allegations came about, there were people who were speaking about bill cosby as a assan assail lnt and peopl vilified for that. a book took on cosby's rhetoric and that was there. but i think recently we have seen the rise and we cannot say this enough, the rise of social media and a new generation of activists who see bill cosby not as beloved as we did. >> right. >> but understand that they can use this forum and these new media technologies to take on a figure like bill cosby and also to speak their truth. and you have a lot of survivors now finding the voice in ways they couldn't before.
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>> you had a lot of folks and we hear from them on social media and we certainly did after all of this broke and folk that is did not know him as cliff huxtable and the guy that gave us fat albert but preaching about the pants being too low and the old guy talking down to them about the way they spoke and lived their lives and moms criticized for the way they parented. >> and that is what created the wave against bill cosby. when these allegations were rebrought, brought up to life again, and rehashed, social media gave individuals the power to let the world read what they say. that's a power of twitter. you can tweet something now and a million people could see it or several million people can see it and when you have a movement where people talk about it constantly, don't depend on the media to tell the story, the newspapers to tell the story, they can tell the story themselves and continue the discussion. it brought a lot of attention
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and forced this to happen. >> i want to get to joe now, an attorney, he is represents seven of bill cosby's accusers. have you been in touch with the accusers? what can you tell us about how they're feeling? what can you tell us about what they're saying without, of course, violating attorney/client privilege? >> yeah. you -- thanks for having me. yeah, the short answer is, yes, i have been in touch with them. and i can't tell you what their reaction is but as i've been listening, you know, the public's reaction and it is one that just reaffirms the perception that mr. cosby was the type of person who privately had a character that was different from his public persona of being a public moralist. and so, you know, there's a long road to go.
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we're in our system of justice innocent until proven guilty but i think it's a significant step when you have a prosecutor who came in, reviewed the evidence and knew -- said he had additional evidence that made it clear for him that justice needed to be served and mr. cosby needed to be held accountable for his earlier conduct. >> joe, i want to play for you and our viewers and our listeners on satellite radio, as well, just a bit of what the district attorney said a few hours ago, actually, you know what? we don't have that sound bite. i'll read you what he said. he said, quote, our team reviewed the initial investigation, re-interviewed some of the witnesses, examined evidence of the civil case and information from over alleged victims. did the d.a. reach out to any of your clients and re-interview them? >> not that i'm aware of, no. >> are you surprised? were you surprised this morning when you heard that the charges
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were forthcoming? >> i was surprised. you know, we -- i knew it was out there and there was an a review. i thought it might be more of the same but this prosecutor seems to be invigorated here and has a sense of clear sense of what's right and what's wrong. i'm not being critical of the prior prosecutor but -- and, you know, you didn't have -- he didn't have a certain things available to him. namely, mr. cosby's deposition when where he admitted to using quaaludes, sedatives, to have sex with people. one of the people was my client. and when mr. cosby asked in the
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deposition whether or not she consented to the sex after the quaaludes, he said, i don't know. in our lawsuit, she's alleged and said i do know. i did not consent. so, you know, it's important evidence. it's -- i'm glad it's -- it was a positive decision. you know, at least there's some vindication or reaffirmation of at least one person's story of that they were, in fact, abused after being drugged. >> joe, have there been other women who have come to you besides the seven that you represent? other women who have come to you and who have said something similar has happened to them at the hands of bill cosby? >> i have had calls to my office that -- of other women, yes.
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>> again, we should note here, again, bill cosby only charged in this case. we are talking to joe cammarata representing seven women who have made similar claims against bill cosby. joe, what does today mean for your clients' cases against cosby? >> well, it's important in the sense that you remember my case is a civil case. i have a lower burden to prove. the prosecutor's got a higher burden to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. mine is that -- mine is more likely true than not true. just tilting the scales ever so slightly. it may help to provide evidence in my case of a pattern and practice of similar conduct because in my case mr. cosby said my clients' are lay yars saying that he sexually assau assaulted and abused them and
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drugged them. so i think it helps. i think it's another bit in the puzzle. it has -- it has no strength in the sense that you can't say a prosecutor said or charged mr. cosby because, you know, we can all be unjustly accused of all sorts of things but it is a positive step forward to reinforcing what the women have been saying. >> i know it's been a busy day, joe. thank you so much for carving out time for us. do appreciate it, sir. >> thank you. >> on the left side of the screen there, bill cosby just a short time ago as he made his way inside of a district courtroom. almost lost his balance. flanked by tw of his attorneys and a crush of reporters. a judge in inside that courthouse 15 minutes or so set bail at $1 million.
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he's free on bail at this hour. his passport was taken. after he left the courthouse, he then went to the police station there. fingerprinted. and the mugshot that you see on the right side of your screen is the mugshot taken at that police station. we continue to follow this breaking news in pennsylvania. we are also following a breaking news in chicago where the embattled mayor of that city is holding a news conference or just wrapping up a news conference. just wrapping up a news conference. of course, we continue to watch the wild, wicked, deadly weather that's pummeled the american part of this country. the death toll at last check approaching two dozen in missouri and illinois. scenes like this playing out all over missouri. governor nixon declared a state of emergency. an update on missouri and chicago right after this. time e a perfectly flaky crust made from scratch, and mixes crisp vegetables with
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we're going to get back to the very latest on bill cosby in just a moment, but we're also following breaking news out of chicago. mayor rahm emanuel just announced new deescalation tactics of palace training after a series of fatal shootings and weeks of protests. every responding officer will be equipped with a taser gun. >> our goal as a city must always be to ensure the safety of everyone involved. to do that, we must ensure that our officers have the right tactics, the right training, the right technology to resolve tense situations safely and securely. >> let's bring in marq claxton, director of the black law enforcement alliance. good to have you with us. let's talk about this new measure introduced by mayor emanuel, do you think it will calm some of the protests that have been plaguing the city of chicago? >> no, i don't believe so.
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as a matter of fact, i don't believe it's a new measure. i think deescalation tactics have been part and parcel of police training for over 50 years. so there's nothing new, and i couldn't consider deescalation and the introduction of current technology into law enforcement anything significant, or part or aspect of reform. >> so what sort of police reforms would you want to see to try and deescalate the situation, as the mayor put it? >> i think you have to start and deal with the culture and institutionalization of policing, the current training mode, the climate, the focus on aggressive and overmilitarized enforcement models. the current model is outdated. until you take that model and trash it, you're going to have the continuation of these same types of incidents. i don't think the introduction or the refocus of training information that's already
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existing in law enforcement will make a bit of difference, or be significant. and i think people have to ask the implementation of deescalation would have made a difference in any of the shooting that we've seen across the country. >> mr. marq claxton, thank you very much for joining us. mayor rahm emanuel announcing new deescalation tactics for chicago. we want to move on now to flood watch in missouri. swollen rivers and streams are pushing to near record highs. not since 1993, since the midwest floods of 1993 have we seen this. it's already forcing hundreds of residents to evacuate and prompted the state's governor to activate the national guard. officials have confirmed 21 flood-related deaths in illinois and missouri. this comes after days of torrential rain triggered by a deadly weather system that
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struck. morgan radford is in missouri with more. what's it like out there where you are? >> ayman, people are gathering here along the banks really to look at spectacle this has become. these flood waters have been rising steadily since i've been here the past eight or nine hours, and these waters have continued to swell. missouri is now in a state of emergency. governor nixon just held a press conference in the past couple hours, 1:30 p.m. our time. the fatalities were updated to 21. but i want to break it down for you. 14 of those fatalities were here in missouri, 7 in illinois. of the 14 here in missouri, 13 people were in their cars when they were swept away. in fact, the national weather service saying that 50% of flood fatalities happen in vehicles and that's what we saw happen here. you can see a sliver of a red truck behind me, almost
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completely submerged. earlier this morning, it tried to make it through these waters and got stuck. that's again, why the governor is asking people to please avoid traveling and to avoid roadways like this. i also want to show you the sandbags to my left. these are stores. this is the center of eureka, missouri, this is what the mayor told me is the heart of the city center, the center of entertainment, and these sandbags are five to six feet high. you can actually just see the top. and they're there to protect these businesses from the water creeping in around the doors now and around the windows. back to you. >> morgan radford, thank you for the update. one other developing story we're following today. the affluenza teen case. nbc news has learned ethan couch and his mother will not be brought back to the united states today. the u.s. marshals service says it could be two weeks before
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their extradition. both could face time behind bars when they get back to texas. ethan, initially on ten years probation after pleading guilty to manslaughter for a drunk driving accident that left four people dead and one seriously injured, may not stay behind bars very long. that's due to texas law, which the county sheriff explained, appearing on the "today" show earlier. >> ethan's case is still under the jurisdiction of the juvenile court and because of texas law, they're limited in their options with him. what we hope to happen is that he will get his case transferred into an adult court very shortly and then at least he can do some jail time and hopefully be based on a very intense probation with much more supervision than he had when he was on probation as a juvenile. >> nbc's kerry sanders joins us on the phone from puerto vallarta with the very latest. kerry? >> ayman, the two are currently being held by the immigration
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authorities here in mexico in the state of jalisco. so it's not as if they have a lot of freedom, despite the fact that they're putting up a fight to get their extradition back to the united states. as you mentioned, it could take two weeks. it's a procedural matter. we may see tonya couch return to the united states before ethan couch because of the peculiarities of mexican law concerning his age, still being considered a juvenile here. all that needs to be worked out. but the bottom line is, those two are now in custody after having fled across the border and ethan couch violating his probation by crossing the border and this all begins with the investigation of that videotape where the sheriff said it appears ethan couch, is in a room with others where they're playing beer pong. and while there's no evidence he's drinking alcohol, it appears that just being there
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may be a violation of his probation. ayman? >> kerry sanders live for us in puerto vallarta, mexico, on the latest development with the affluenza teen. thank you. straight ahead, what's next for bill cosby? my colleague craig melvin picks up our coverage. stay with us. we thought we'd be ready. but demand for our cocktail bitters was huge. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding. fast. our amex helped us fill the orders.
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good wns afternoon to you. we start this hour with breaking news out of pennsylvania, where bill cosby is free on $1 million bail. he was arraigned on the charge of sexual assault. >> mr. cosby is charged with aggravated, indecent assault. this is a felony of the first-degree. today, after examination of all the evidence we are able to seek justice on behalf of the victim. >> clarification here. he said first-degree. he later clarified it's second-degree. it's a second-degree felony. to date, 57 women have made
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accusations against cosby, ranging from sexual assault to harassment, to being drugged by the comedian. he and his representatives have denied allegations in the past and until today he's never been formally charged with a crime. this month, in fact, bill cosby sued eight of his accusers for defamation. we did reach out to representatives for comment from mr. cosby. right now, we want to go to adam reese, still outside the courthouse where it went down. what can you tell us? >> good afternoon. he arrived right on time at 2:30, walked the gauntlet of cameras into this very small courthouse in montgomery county. only 32 chairs in the room. as he entered the room, he seemed dazed and confused, not sure where he should go. the woman with him, said mr. cosby, come a little to the right, come a little to the left. he seemed very fragile according to one observer. he sat down at his seat.
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judge mchugh read the charnges and said mr. cosby, you cannot have any contact with the accuser. he appeared to mumble something, it wasn't clear whether he was challenging that or didn't understand it, but she repeated herself. ten minutes later, he walked out of the courtroom on his way to the police department where he had his photograph taken and his fingerprints taken. here's the district attorney. >> our team have reviewed the initial investigation, re-interviewed some of the witnesses, examined evidence from the civil case, and information from other alleged victims. >> reporter: now, this dates back to early 2004. andrea constand, the accuser, was a guest at his home, about five minutes from here, north of philadelphia. according to her complaint, he plied her with some alcohol and she blue pills.
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she said she became very disoriented. at that point, she says he led her to the couch, fondled her, sexually assaulted her. she said she was so disoriented, she felt frozen and paralyzed. >> adam, thank you for your reporting. defense attorney, former prosecutor and nbc news contributor, karen desoto remains with me on the set. let's talk about the specific charge, aggravated indecent assault, second-degree felony. what is cosby looking at in terms of potential time. >> two to five years for second-degree. first-degree would have been up to ten years and enhancements for drug penalties. but the serious allegations in pennsylvania, there's a minimum of two years in prison. whether or not that's going to be applied in this case is going to be interesting. but these are first and
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second-degree felony charges. there's a presumption of incarceration with that. >> probation not an option? >> no. only third and fourth degree. there's a presumption if you have a clean record, that you could do probation. but in first and second-degree cases, those are more serious and therefore probation is off the table. you can downgrade it. >> he's 78 years old now. will his age in any way impact a prosecutor's decision or potentially a jury's decision in. >> yes in all of those things. with juries and trials, plea deals and sentencing. with elderly clients, their illnesses become more apparent. if you're facing jail time and serious criminal charges, you have a tendency to deteriorate. whether or not they're actually deteriorating or they want to get around prosecution is another story.
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>> as we watch this video of loop of bill cosby going into the courthouse and out, going into the police station and coming out, all of it transpiring in about 35 minutes. i want to talk to you about what appears to be some sort of legal strategy. the aforementioned mugshot of william cosby. the defamation lawsuits that have been filed by bill cosby over the past few weeks, more than a half dozen of the accusers have been slapped with these defamation suits. what might his legal team have been doing with those? >> at first, you're not going to file defamation charges in civil lawsuits of this nature. why? because truth is an ultimate defense. you're setting your client up to give depositions. so the cosby attorneys were not going to file defamation charges. however, the horse has left the
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barn in this case, because now you have 50 people coming forward. you have to start defend it. he's a brand. you're trying to protect a brand. you're trying to protect bill cosby, his $200 million. that from a pr standpoint is very important. now that all the allegations are so tremendous, outrageous, and crimes of moral terpitude, you have no other choice than to start to defend. and if the only way you can defend is through a civil lawsuit, you got to go for it. >> a number of the women who have accused bill cosby, they're non-disclosure agreements have been signed. >> yes. >> what would those agreements mean for a potential criminal trial, if anything? >> well, i know when i do settlement cases and i put orders in there that you can't speak about the case, criminal prosecution is a different story. so if they have to testify in a criminal lawsuit, or if it's
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civil, obviously, if it's criminal and they want to do an investigation and you're subpoenaed to go to court, that is not covered by a civil lawsuit settlement agreement. you can't pay somebody to keep your mouth shut, but you can make that a stipulation of the settlement contract. if a judge says i'm subpoenaing you and your testimony is important in a criminal case, you have to go to court and testify. >> thanks so much. just sit there for me if you can. i want to bring in public relations expert marvet brittle and joy reid who has been covering this story for a very long time as well. it was surreal to sit here and watch the bill cosby that we all grew up knowing and loving, walk into a courthouse, wearing a great sweater, flanked by attorneys, did not see him standing before the judge. but he did and said he was not
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guilty. they take him to a police station a mile or two away and we get this mugshot that we are going to undoubtedly see for a very long time on tv and newspapers and all over the internet. even before this, you had 57 women who had come forward who had all shared a similar story. is today validation for all of those women? >> i don't know that today is validation for all of those women, but today is certainly a day where we see a man who believed that his image was his best defense. and at this point, we are watching bill cosby, someone who really spoke up and was an advocate for injustices, be very silent while these allegations have been really waged against him. and it's very difficult for us to continue to see without hearing from bill cosby. even though i know that potentially compromises the case. but he's been silent for far too
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long. and i think that he has really been convicted in the most dangerous court, and that the court of public opinion. >> we did not see a family member with bill cosby today. we have not heard from, at least i have not read or seen anything from a family member since these charges began. have you? >> i have not. and like yourself, we know members of the cosby public relations team. i've been reaching out all day, not heard anything back, and it's true. throughout this process, kamil cosby, the daughters, and bill cosby himself, have been silent. there was their strategic choice. they chose to stand on the cosby legacy itself. and make no mistake, it's a substantial and historic legacy that dates back to the '60s when it was not customary for a black man to be on tv, to the cosby
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kids, which was a historic achievement in animation for black characters to "the cosby show," which was the longest running, hit number one, primetime series featuring an african american middle-class family, unheard of, that had reverberations, not just in the country, but around the world. they stood on that and refused to counter the specific allegations. and as those numbered 10 and 20 and close to 50, they never spoke, chose to stand on that legacy, which now seems to have been a tremendous mistake. >> that's the bill cosby we knew, that you were just talking about. that's the bill cosby that we grew up with. the bill cosby that hannibal burriss talked about in the stand-up routine that one could argue triggered all of this, that's a bill cosby of a different generation. and i wonder if perhaps it's the bill cosby that spent the better part of the last decade preaching to young black kids,
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or preaching to single mothers. if perhaps that's not the chasm that also helped do him in. >> yeah, if you talk about the african american intellectuals who have said, the cosby they're conversant with is the pound-cake speech bill cosby, who was lecturing young african american men on what they ought to be doing, and that was the cosby that was lampooned by members of the comedic community, they had a running commentary on cosby, because it's not as if it was behavior nobody heard of before. hannibal burriss just comes out and says it, makes that joke about bill cosby years after one of the accusers wrote an op-ed piece in a major american newspaper that was ignored. and no one believed her. it took this young man to make jokes about this for it to become serious and for it to become currency in the modern
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media. >> marvet, people in this day and age in our society, seem to come back from all sorts of things, but correct me if i'm wrong, it's very hard to come back from child abuse allegations and it's very hard to come back from allegations of sexual assault, especially when you're talking about more than 50 women. is it fair to say that when we run the bill cosby obituary story, that this is the lion's share of that story? is everything else that bill cosby has done, been a part of, is that all now forgotten? is it cast aside? >> we can't forget the legacy and the character and integrity that he displayed through the art. the problem is, we have a hard time separating the man from the art. and that's the problem. the most damaging aspect of all the allegations. i believe anyone can come back, but we have to see the redemptive value and we don't
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from him. but more importantly, we're not hearing from family members. we're not hearing from the wife. it was very glaring and towering that the wife, camilkamil was a today. this is the time when families are together and we did not see that today. so in this case, i think that we are really looking and seeing things that are unspoken. and that also is causing damage. because we're really seeing perception here. this has been a perception case because bill cosby hasn't spoken. most of the allegations have been, you know, really disputed and debated in the public, on social media, on news platforms, and there has been no one on his side that has been proactive in defending him. so therefore, for him today to emerge in really one of the most important dates in the history of this case, alone, is a very
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important, significant message that was sent. >> joy, one of the things that's struck me early on, when the allegations started to surface, not just the denials, but the vehement denials. they were, you know, bill cosby, through his spokesperson, attorneys, they were adamant and have always been very adamant about none of this being possible, none of this happening. we never heard from bill cosby substantially with regard to these allegations. do you think that had he said something at any point to address any of this in a public form, do you think that would have changed anything? >> i think it would have been important to have bill cosby's statements on the record. because not only did they, as you said, attempt to characterize these women as essentially lying, even as the stories accumulated, but sub orned attacks on the character of people like janice dickinson, attacks on the character of some of the more high profile accusers as they began to weigh
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in. and the cosby camp attempted to benefit from that. from the disparagement of the character of some of the women. but the problem for the cosby camp has always been the numbers. when it was one or two women, you could make a he said/she said argument, that he may not be speaking, but he only has one accuser. but as the numbers accumulated, i'm still surprised and stunned by the utter silence from the cosby camp, not just from his family, but from his media family, his television family. there have been attempts to get former members of the cast of "the cosby show" -- >> to play devil's advocate, what would they say? >> yeah. >> marvet, joy, thank you. we should note here, one of the hardest working people at msnbc, because she'll be back in a few hours, hosting "hardball" at 7:00 eastern. coming up, we'll talk to nbc's kate snow, who spent several months speaking with many of the women, 30 of them almost, many
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of the women who have accused of comedian of sexual misconduct. >> i'm alex trebek. if you're age 50 to 85, i have an important message about security. write down the number on your screen, so you can call when i finish. the lock i want to talk to you about isn't the one on your door. this is a lock for your life insurance, a rate lock, that guarantees your rate can never go up at any time, for any reason. but be careful. many policies you see do not have one, but you can get a lifetime rate lock through the colonial penn program. call this number to learn more. this plan was designed with a rate lock for people on a fixed income who want affordable life insurance that's simple to get. coverage options for just $9.95 a month, less than 35 cents a day. act now and your rate will be locked in for life. it will never increase, guaranteed.
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we continue to follow breaking news out of pennsylvania where bill cosby was arraigned on a charge of aggravated indecent assault, second-degree charge. he's right now free on $1 million bail. his passport has been turned over to a judge there. nbc's kate snow has done extensive reporting on this story and recently sat down with 27 of cosby's accusers for a "dateline" special. have you heard from any of these
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women today? >> yeah, i have. it's an odd day for them. it's surreal. something they've waited a long time for, to see criminal charges brought against bill cosby, but as you can imagine, it's painful and emotional as well for women who accuse him of a wide range of crimes. they're telling me they feel vindicated, but they also feel sad and emotional. and watching him walk into that courthouse was a difficult thing for a lot of people. >> we were just talking about this before the commercial break, this -- the fact that we have not heard from bill cosby publicly since these charges started to surface. we've not heard from his wife. we haven't heard from any of his children. who have we heard from in response to these charges. >> not many people. you asked me about this last hour. over the past 12 to 14 months, there have been occasional, little things said here and there. kamil at one point came out and
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defended him in a written statement, but his lawyers, i'm sure would say he's in the middle of litigation. he's got seven civil suits against him right now, in addition to the criminal charges filed today. so they've said all along, we're not going to comment while there's ongoing litigation. so that would be why they haven't said anything publicly. >> when you talked to these women a few months ago, did any of them give you the impression, or did they say outright that they thought we would see what we saw today, that being bill cosby walking into a courthouse, standing before a judge, declaring his innocence, and then going to a police station, where he had a mugshot taken. did they think this day would come? >> i don't think so. that's a great question. i think this fall, i sat down with these women in late august and we ran it this fall on "dateline," so the group interview where 27 women sitting with me and we spoke to two
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others in addition, they all had a sense that most of the statutes of limitations have long expired. and they had the sense that the civil actions would move forward and that perhaps people would win civil settlements against bill cosby, or he would settle out of court. perhaps people would get some money and that would feel like some sort of justice to them. and i'm generalizing, but most of the women that we spoke with were not confident there would ever be criminal charges against him. i think that was a bit surprising. but we got word this fall that pennsylvania, montgomery county, was starting to look into this again. so over the past few weeks, there's been some whispering that maybe something is coming. >> i want to bring in patricia stoier now. she was a jane doe in the pennsylvania case. she alleged that she was drugged and raped by bill cosby. patricia, first of all, thanks so much for joining me. kate's going to stick around
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here as well. first of all, just your general reaction to what we saw play out over the past few hours. >> well, as kate said, it's been a highly emotional day for me and i'm sure for all the other women involved. i didn't get to see some of the televised footage of mr. cosby being brought to court or fingerprinted, but i heard about it from some of the other women. >> well, you can see it right now, patricia, if you look at the left side of the monitor there, i'm sure you can see this video coming in. that's bill cosby walking in to the courthouse. patricia, you and i, we should be clear, we spent time together back in august when i spoke with other accusers as well. >> that's right. >> and you joined us as part of that group, that small group of 13 women who, to remind people, ten years ago, agreed to support andrea constand, the woman at the center of the case that has now brought these criminal charges. i guess i wonder your feelings
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today about your role here, patricia, because you were one of those who wanted to stand up for her back then. you didn't get a chance because it was settled out of court civilly and now it's gone forward. >> that's correct. i think, as i said, all of the women have very strong eemotion today, because we feel joy and relief and a sense of validation. i think that's particularly true of those of us who came forward at jane does in 2005 to stand with andrea and her claims. >> patricia, for our viewers and listeners who may not be completely familiar with your story, with as much -- i don't want you to certainly go into stuff that you don't want to go into here on live television, but what happened back then many years ago? what did bill cosby do? >> i was introduced to him. he found out that i was a singer. he offered to mentor me in my
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career. soon after that, he invited me to his home in massachusetts, where he drugged me in a drink that he gave me. the next thing i remember, he was waking me up and telling me that i needed to leave and i did not know what had happened and i was sicker than i'd ever been in my life. and he told me that it was my responsibility, that i had thrown up and passed out. and i believed him. because he was famous and trustworthy. and i was humiliated and embarrassed and thought i'd never hear from him again. a year and a half later, he also drugged me and he raped me. >> when did you come to realize that you were part of a pattern, an alleged pattern of behavior? >> i did not know that i was part of a pattern of behavior until andrea constand came forward in 2005 and attempted to have him charged. i thought i was alone. >> patricia, i'm really curious
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how you feel today as you look forward. he's due in court in january. legal experts have said to us that people like you might be called to testify. they might actually ask other women who make accusations to be a part of this case. would you be willing? >> i was willing in 2005 to testify on behalf of andrea, if it was helpful to her case. i remain willing to do that, but it isn't up to me. it's up to the prosecutor and to the judge involved in the case. >> we should note here, as we have been throughout the afternoon, that bill cosby has been charged in this case specifically. he has not been charged with any other crimes, and he's repeatedly denied criminal wrongdoing. patricia, we've heard from a number of folks this afternoon who have said they would like to hear from bill cosby. they would like to hear some sort of explanation. are you one of those people? do you want to hear from bill cosby? do you want him to testify?
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>> not particularly. i've not ever known him to be a person who tells the truth. so, no, i don't have a particular desire to hear him testify. >> should he go to jail if he's convicted? >> that is not up to me. that outcome is not within my power. >> patricia stoier, thanks so much for your time this afternoon. >> thank you. >> i do appreciate it. on what i note has to be a difficult day for you. >> nice to see you, patricia. >> you too kate. after a quick break, i'll spend some time with the senior editor of ebony magazine. you will likely recall that stunning cover that drew some praise and some criticism for the publication as well. stay with us. this is msnbc live. hello. i'm jerry mathers.
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after appearing in court today for his arraignment on a criminal charge of second-degree aggravated indecent assault. i'm joined by ebony magazine's senior editor. last month's cover on the screen. shattered image of bill cosby and the rest of the huxtable family. i'm also joined by a professor at the university of pennsylvania, she's also the co-founder of a long walk home, an organization aimed at helping to end violence against women and girls. thank you both. let's start with the cover, because it seems like a long time ago. it was just last month, in november. you guys caught a lot of flack for this cover. >> absolutely. i think in the hearts and minds of at least a few people, it seemed that we were the ones responsible for what we're seeing today, as opposed to mr. cosby, the actions that he's accused of. there's a pervasive idea that
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we're supposed to be protective of our celebrities, particularly or black male celebrities. and when someone is accused of something like sexual assault, against a lot of women, many of whom are white, this idea that there's got to be a plan or plot to take down a good or powerful black man. i don't think that's what we're seeing here and i'm proud of the work that we did with telling that story and putting that visual with it. this isn't a happy moment for us. no one at ebony is taking a victory lap today because now we're seeing the possibility of real punishment or accountability for bill cosby. >> what are those who would say that bill cosby, the man, is -- or should be, here, but the huxtable family, or fat albert, or the philanthropic work, especial especially, that should be here and the two should remain separate. what do you say to that? >> i say that people are
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complicated. you're complicated. i'm complicated. there are things about us that may stand in contrast to what we do professionally, good, bad, or otherwise. but it's impossible it look at the entire measure of a person and to remove something as tremendous as allegedly sexually assaulting upwards of 50 women. it's unreasonable to look at bill cosby and not to consider those things. as far as the rest of the cast and having that particular image put forward, that is what happens to a family, when one member, particularly a leader in a family is accused of, or is guilty of the sort of crime that this person is accused of, it does impact the bigger picture. >> as we have this conversation, we continue to watch here how bill cosby has spent his day, going inside a courthouse to face a judge, coming out of that courthouse and going inside a police station, having his fingerprints taken and his mugshot snapped.
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more than 50 women, 57 women, at last check, have come forward, telling very similar stories. he's only been charged in connection with this one case. looking forward, what is all of this going to mean for women of sexual assault in this country? women who have been abused in this country? >> the other iconic magazine image was the new york magazine image with the 50 women and that chair, the unnamed survivor that remains out there, or many survivors. so i think for women to come forward, this case both represents a kind of -- somewhat of a vindication that it's taken this moment and this unprecedented opportunity for bill cosby to be arraigned, but also, i don't know if this case is really going to make a big difference for women to come forward. >> really? >> because we're also seeing -- i mean, it's taken so long, right? and it's also the same era in which women on college campuses
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are feeling like there's some forms of protections that they have, but at the same time, there's a lot of difficulty for them to come forward. so i don't know if this is a case in which women will feel like i can go to the police and say, i've been sexually assaulted, much less by a high profile celebrity and feel like they'll get justice. >> but we saw here, even with bill cosby, so many of the women who came forward said, i came forward because this woman who also claimed to have been abused by bill cosby came forward. didn't we see that in this case? >> yes, so i think this is a moment we should acknowledge and praise the survivors for coming forward. but you're saying, what if there's a woman who's been sexually assaulted by a high profile celebrity last night? >> this doesn't make it easy for her. >> the lag time between the con stand allegation originally and this conclusion that we're experiencing right now has been almost over a decade. so i don't think it makes more
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survivors come forward. maybe they'll see this is an opportunity, if a collection of survivors come forward, it 50 come forward, maybe people will believe them. so i just think it's still difficult, but i do think it's a tipping point in terms of how the public now responds to these crises. >> we're also, i'm told, going to be getting a statement from bill cosby's attorney. i have reached out a number of times. a number of my colleagues have reached out today as well to bill cosby's attorneys and spokespeople. and it appears as if we'll be getting a statement from cosby's attorney here in just moments. we'll read that to you here in just a moment, but for folks who might just be joining us, if you've not been watching or listening at all today, bill cosby, the iconic comedian, actor, philanthropist, we could go on and on and on, bill cosby,
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right now, he's out on bail of $1 million. here's the statement we have from bill cosby's attorney. i'm going to read it in its entirety. monique presley, one of the attorneys representing bill cosby right now. >> the charge by the montgomery county district attorney's office came as no surprise. filed 12 years after the alleged incident and coming on the heels of a hotly contested election for this county's da, during which this case was made the focal point. make no mistake, we intend to mount a vigorous defense against this unjustified charge and we expect that mr. cosby will be exonerated by a court of law. because you're both sitting here with me, i'll ask you to weigh in on that statement. it appears that cosby's attorney is saying that the charge today was political. >> yeah, i'm not surprised by
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that response at all. i do wonder, if i'm not mistaken, presley's services were retained by mr. cosby after this case completely blew up. did he have a pretty young black female lawyer prior to this, because the lawyers that i knew associated with him throughout these allegations were not black and female. so that a black woman is now the face of the cosby defense, it really just feels like it's part of the strategy of the cosby team, to play on this image that he has in the hearts and minds of a lot of people, particularly african americans, and speaking to that narrative of a good black man being taken down by an unseen plot. >> i appreciate your time, thanks so much. up next, we'll pick up and talk about the politics of this, how politics perhaps played a role in the case against bill cosby. stay with us. this is msnbc.
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bill cosby, actor, comedian,
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cultural icon, charged with sex crime more than 12 years ago. the announcement coming today as a surprise to many. equally stunning, this image on the right side of your screen there, that is bill cosby's mugshot. on the left side of your screen, it's the 78-year-old tripping his way into a courtroom just outside philadelphia, supported on both sides by his attorneys. mr. cosby now out on a $1 million bail. one of those attorneys released a statement a short time ago, saying, quote, make no mistake, we intend to mount a vigorous defense against this unjustified charge, and we expect that mr. cosby will be exonerated by a court of law. i'm joined on the phone right now by nicki egan, senior writer at "people" magazine. she's been covering the cosby allegations for more than a decade. first of all, were you
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surprised? as a journalist who has covered this story for so long, were you surprised today when the charges came down? >> you know, no, i wasn't. i had a strong inclination this was going to happen when it was revealed that the da had reopened the case this past summer. i was pretty much surprised when the da decided not to prosecute in february of 2005. i felt that there were more than a dozen women that had come forward with similar claims to andrea's, that had come forward with their stories, but that wasn't enough for the da to decide to charge mr. cosby at the time. >> we'll talk more about that part of the story in just a moment. have you heard from other women out there who have said that cosby did the same thing to them? >> well, yes. there are more than 50 women now who say he did the same thing to them. and i've been speaking with some of the original jane does who
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came forward 11 years ago. they're grateful and glad that andrea is finally going to get her day in court. they all came forward all those years ago because they felt she was not being believed by prosecutors at the time. they came forward to support her story. >> and for folks who are not familiar with andrea constand's story, what does she allege happened more than a decade ago? >> she was deputy director of the women's basketball team at temple where mr. cosby has spent a lot of time. he went there, and he was her mentor and her friend. and then one night in january 2004, she came to his home, she alleges that she gave her a drink and some pills that she thought was benadryl, but it made her groggy. she was half passed out and during that time, he sexually assaulted her, she alleges. and his response is that it was consensual. but as it came out last summer,
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andrea is gay and was involved with a woman at the time. she never had any romantic interest in him whatever. she considered him like a grandfather figure to her. >> nicki egan, "people" magazine has been on this story for more than ten years. i want to talk about the case against the comedian, a long-standing issue in local politics in the philadelphia suburbs. i'm joined now by msnbc senior editor for video and digital content, and this came up during our last segment, where someone pointed out the politics. >> the election for district attorney, he's just been elected, brand-new to the office. he ran against bruce castor, who was the district attorney back in 2005. you heard nicki talking about how mr. castor did not charge bill cosby in 2005. for the new da, this was an election issue, something he
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built campaign ads around. >> he ran on this. >> take a listen. we have the ad right here. >> for district attorney in montgomery county, kevin steele, first assistant d.a. with a 98% conviction rate and tough sentences for sexual predators. or bruce castor, a form did a. who refused to prosecute bill cosby, he said we don't charge people for making a mistake or doing something foolish. many more victims came forward, but castor didn't even try. bruce castor was not looking out for the victims. >> this was an ugly election. these two candidates threw tweets back and forth at each other about bill cosby. so maybe not a surprise to everybody that these charges were brought. >> what do we know, besides what was in the ad, what do we know about why castor did not bring charges in 2005? >> he says there was not enough evidence and he pushed for a civil trial to occur. that was one of the things that kevin steele took issue with.
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saying, why would you push for a civil trial to take place and not a criminal trial? he fund-raised off this. it was a $90,000 campaign ad, so a very serious issue. this is the third largest district in the state of pennsylvania. it's massive. so the people there, they've been living this for a decade. >> if he campaigned on this, presumably there's no plea deal, he has to take this thing to trial and go for the jugular? >> absolutely. i asked some of our legal experts here, could this be used by the defense? probably not. if you had the d.a. replace somebody from his office is probably going to take over. but maybe something they'll bring up in public especially now that we know it's going to become a media circus. >> appreciate that. we'll continue to follow the developments in the case against bill cosby. but we are also going to get you caught up on some other breaking stories this hour, including
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chicago mayor rahm emanuel just wrapping up a news conference where they spent some time talking about police reforms in the wake of what's been happening in the windy city. ok, we're here. here's dad. mom. the twins. aunt alice... you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course. don't forget grandpa. can the test drive be over now? maybe just head back to the dealership? don't you want to meet my family? yep, totally. it's practically yours, but we still need your signature. the volkswagen sign then drive event. zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on a new jetta and other select models.
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as we continue to follow breaking news with bill cosby, we're also following developments out of chicago. mayor rahm emanuel announcing today that by next june, every police officer will carry a taser when responding to a call. the move comes in the wake of the shooting death of 17-year-old laquan mcdonald. emanuel also announcing today that training will focus on deescalation tactics to reduce the intensity of a conflict or
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potentially violent situation at the earliest possible moment. >> we want to show that our officers are not just operating in first gear or fifth gear, but to recognize the gears in between to respond appropriately to each individual situation, where force can be the last option, not the first choice. >> nbc's kevin tibbles in live in chicago covering this story for us. did mayor rahm emanuel explain what de escalation tactics mean? >> well, first off, the mayor who returned from a vacation in cuba to address this situation of two chicagoans shot to death after christmas, one of them a 55 yearly woman who was just caught in the crossfire of police gunfire, he essentially addressed the fact that in his words, the relationship of trust between the people of chicago and the police force has been broken. and he says this is something that has to be fixed.
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as a matter of fact, this is what he had to say. >> effective policing requires cooperation between the police and the members and residents that make up the community. and that cooperation is impossible without trust. so as we go forward, all of us will accept nothing less than complete and total reform of both the system and policing culture here in the city of chicago. >> so what he's talking about there, ayman, is basically that, yes, they are going to have this sort of crisis deescalation training. they didn't get into a lot of details as to what that entails. but the incident over the weekend did involve someone who, at least the 911 people were told this young man was having some form of mental distress when the police came to the door. as we just heard the mayor say, he is wanting people to try to deescalate the situation before
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the guns are drawn. you mentioned tasers. there are only 700 tasers in the city of chicago, the third largest city in the country. the mayor today says that he wants to double that number to 1,400, so that there's a taser in every squad car that is patrolling the streets of chicago, especially in the night-time. they are hoping, i presume, that the introduction of the taser into a situation, as opposed to the introduction of a gun, is going to be able to also deescalate the situations or cut down on the number of police shootings in this city. but obviously with the number of protests and marches, there are more marches planned tomorrow, new year's eve here in chicago because of the concern over police shootings in this city. something obviously had to be done. many people are saying that mayor emanuel is under fire here and he's obviously trying to deescalate his own situation as the mayor in the city of chicago. >> all right, kevin tribbles
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live for us in chicago with that other developing story. that does it for this hour. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's wednesday, bill cosby is charged with criminal sexual assault. the newly elected district attorney made prosecuting cosby part of his campaign. it's "mtp daily" and it starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd. we got lots tonight. we'll get to 2016 politics in just a minute, but we start with some breaking news. comedian bill cosby charged just this afternoon with second-degree felony, aggravated indecent assault. this stemming from a 2004 encounter in


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