tv Morning Joe MSNBC January 1, 2016 3:00am-5:01am PST
happy new year. >> are you awake? >> i am awake. unfortunately, i slept in the same clothes i wore all day yesterday. >> new year's eve, time to get new clothes. >> i like to wear the same clothes all year. >> tell me a new one. >> bathe once a week. >> happy new year everyone. 2016 starts just like all of them for us. we have a big hour planned. we're going to bring you our exclusive interview with ash carter plus dick cheney and his daughter liz with their take on
the commander in chief. >> plus john kerry's nuclear dale with iran and our conversation with tom hanks. >> joe and i travelled to the pentagon for a rare behind the scenes interview. >> that was fascinating wasn't it. >> it was. you tried to make me some asking questions. i don't understand. >> you kept pushing and pushing and pushing. you try to follow the rules. >> no, i don't. you told me women tend to follow the rules too much. we kick things off with the question on so many american's minds. are we doing enough to beat isis? >> how can you insure the american public there's a strategy and they fully address the threat isis poses?
>>. >> it is something that must be defeated. what we're doing is to remind you. >> we're flying every day which are very intense, very effective and more constant in how we're using them. isis uses the energy as a way to raise money. we took out the head of isil in libya. we're running raids like the
one. >> we hear complaints from inside the pentagon that yes, there are 8,000 being flown but the rules of engagement are so tight and restrictive two-thirds of those planes are coming back without using their ordnances. i know you heard the complaints. are the rules of engagement being loosened a bit. >> we review them all the time. actually if you look at the data, we change tactics as we just did. >> there has been hesitation to go after the fuel trucks. why do you change rules of
engagement again. >> the oil infrastructure is something that the civilian population benefits from as well. you have to first of all get intelligence to identify that part of the energy infrastructure which is being used by isil to finances their operations. they had to identify that. then you want to get convoy when it's not in the middle of the town. when it's outside in the middle of the road that takes intelligence. we're getting better and better at this every day. i'm describing all the things we're doing and i hope now as a consequence of the paris attacks, francis indicated to do more. >> why are people of the
strategy and approach to something more like our approach which is if they fight isil and work on political term positions which god knows and the structures of government in syria are sustained. that's what we've been a favor of. i've been saying right from the beginning they were off on the wrong foot. if they get on the right foot then and i think secretary kerry has been discussing this with the russians. there's a possibility they'll contribute in a positive way. that's not how they started.
that's where catching foreign fighters, identifying them, taking them off the battlefield, dealing with finances and improving intelligence, getting more in the game, controlling boarders. there's a lot more than iraq and syria. a lot more than defense. the heart of it has to be defeating them in syria and iraq. >> do we need more troops? >> the president's indicated he's prepared to do more including on the ground but the trick here is this. this gets to the heart of the strategy for the ground campaign both in iraq and syria.
it's important to defeat iraq in syria. that means they have to be capable forces able to sustain the defeat. we know from afghanistan and iraq that's the hard part. >> how important is the military objective of clearing raqqah? if so, what would it take? >> they're the self-declared capitol. our approach to that is to close it, take it back. they need to be destroyed there. some reasonable forms of government has to be restored there so that it doesn't descend into chaos once again. >> still ahead former vice president dick cheney recently
joined us on set. why he and president bush got it right with respect to iraq. that question is next on morning joe. ♪ ♪ (cell phone rings) where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic. mom? your dad won't call an exterminator... can i call you back, mom? he says it's personal this time... if you're a mom, you call at the worst time. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. where are you? it's very loud there. are you taking a zumba class?
ted cruz says the world would be more stable if the u.s. had never overthrough hussein. >> meanwhile, military actions in iraq. >> we recently sat down with dick cheney and his daughter liz for a wide ranging discussion. one of the top questions. what responsibility does the former administration bare for what's happening in the middle east today? >> you obviously had not been cheating on your wind sprints. you're in great shape. i saw you here a couple of years ago. >> three years ago i got a new
heart thanks to the donor and modern medicine and it's remarkable. >> it's a good heart. it's working. >> fantastic. let's talk about these are crazy times. you think you've seen it all and donald trump gets into the race. >> that's correct. lots of surprises. what's going on with the republican party right now. >> i think one, i think we've got obviously a lot of candidates but i think there's pretty good talent there. i think it will sort itself out over time and that's the way the primary system is suppose to work. our concern doing the book was to make certain that the national security issues was front and center in the campaign. >> are they? >> i think they will be. >> what have we done wrong over
the past seven or eight years? >> we've turned our back on a lot of allies. look at the middle east. israelis and arabs are apauled and defense budget has been cut dramatically and capacity to cut power significantly less than it use to be. the former chief staff of army retired. what's the worst mistake president bush made? >> we got it right with respect to iraq. when we left iraq was in good
the united states saw. he did the deal. should we have worked to keep him in place or should we -- >> i think the most important thing was he get rid of the nuclear materials. imagine what had happened if he hasn't done that. >> my question is did barack obama make a mistake by pushing out and creating another void? >> i can't say he did. i don't know how long he would have survived. we came close to have a radical group acquire capabilities. same thing in eastern syria. when the north koreans build. they took it out in 2007.
>> what are we doing moving forward with the challenges we have? to find out the pentagon has been exaggerating claims against isis. >> i think one of the things we want to make sure we get in the book is both give the historical perspective and talk about how far this president has departed from a bipartisan position as far as presidents and democratic understanding the powerful
america. >> i think you got to ask the commanders, we need to defeat isis. this has to be objective driven. >> what have you heard from the commanders. you talked to the military people. oc obviously, you guys are still involved. what number do you hear? >> i don't want to give a number. i think that's irresponsible. i think the way a president should operate is if isis is the threat it is and they say it is, he needs to say how do we win. >> it may be we need to deploy ground numbers. >> i think there's been a break down, if you will, between the white house and the military.
>> i want to ask about iran bringing it back to october 1979, the hostage crisis but moving forward looking at the iran deal, is there any better option than going with this deal now and building upon it? >> absolutely. i think that at this point as we lay out in the book and as its been explained, what this deal will do is provide hundreds of billions of dollars and lift the ban on conventional weapons and give them a pathway to a nuclear arsenal. a better approach would be to reject the deal and actually negotiate from a position of strength. it's interesting you mention october '79, mika, your dad was there and had the fist hand experience of attempting to
build a relationship with offers and they rejected it. we tried for many, many years the approach the president is taking. >> i want to ask what is the latest friend to this country right now? we have a short memory. >> what is the greatest threat to the united states of america? >> i think there's a possibility of 911. >> on the agreement itself you're going to have rapidly per live ration of the east. this is about the neighboring
states that are going to insist on getting their own. they're going to pay for it and that's going to be a big problem and happen right away. >> all right. the book is exceptional. why the world needs a powerful america. you can read next on our website mojo at msnbc.com. >> glaet reat to see you. in a few minutes secretary of state john kerry standing by. we'll be right back. efore it sh. the ones who labor for what they love. ♪ because at banquet we believe that every dollar should work as hard as the family that earned it. that's why we're making our meals better. like using 100% natural chicken breast in our chicken strips
don't settle for u-verse. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. joining us now john kerry. his name keeps coming up at dinner conversations across the country saying he should run for president. >> he already did. >> just saying. >> that will be another conversation. you've had big business before you. we heard vice president cheney speak before. i want to bring up one of the issues he brought up we hear an awful lot about.
does this deal not encourage arab states. especially the saudis and egypt and turkey to join the arms race? >> i don't believe so. in fact, joe, i really believe the fastest way to a genuine arms race in the middle east is not to have disagreement because if you don't have disagreement iran is already made clear what it's direction is and that is a direction that is only slowed down or stopped by this agreement. in other words, if there are no inspections, if there's no regime by which they have to roll back their current program, if there is no incite to their program day-to-day, if we don't have to additional 150 inspectors going into iran, if we don't have requirements under international law that they have to allow us access to be able to suspect a suspicious site, that is what will provoke each of
those nations to say uh-oh, these guys are free and moving in a direction we know therefore, we have to rush to do it. it is precisely the opposite of what former vice president said. it is because we have this agreement fully implemented and i emphasize fully implemented. if this agreement is in place we'll know with certainty what iran is doing. that concludes any necessities for the countries to proceed forward. that's why more than a hundred nations that have come out and taken a position on this say this is a good agreement and they support it and only one nation is opposed. that's why so many people around the world believe this is the good agreement we've talked about. >> which leads to the second concern the vice president brought up. that is yes. if the iranians stick to the
i was really interested to hear liz cheney say two things. one, she invoked mika's father as an example of how to do things. he is a strong supporter of this agreement. v she secondly said the sun sets. no. there's a 15 year restraint on what they can do. a 25 year restraint that requires all iranians to be retracted from the mind to the grave. the additional protocol and requirement to live under access and inspection is for the lifetime of this agreement. so iran is never free to go move towards a weapon. that is just a misstatement that
is repeated again and again and again by the opponents. they are never free to do this. if we do the right job of inspecting and israel and the gulf states and we and our friends, france, jeremy, britain, china, russia are all doing the right level of intelligence gathering, believe me, we'll know what iran is doing. >> let's talk about a world potentially without an agreement mr. secretary. how long would it be in your estimati estimation, how quickly would the iranians get to a nuclear weapon without an agreement and how quickly would money flow into iran without an agreement? >> without an agreement, mike, money will flow immediately. that are countries chomping at the bit to do business.
that's another misstatement by the opponents. the money will begin to flow. the sajss will fall apart because people will look at this agreement and say wait a minute, the united states has been enforcing the sanctions but their the ones who walked away from the agreement. i can't tell you exactly how many months it will be before iran. it depends on how many they spend on whether they decide to dig deeper into a mountain and hide their program more and try to avoid consequences. it could take them a little longer under those circumstances. what i can tell you is if we walk away from this agreement given the suspicions that the supreme leader had about even entering into negotiations with us. we will have proven their worst
fears that you can't deal with the west, you can't trust the west. therefore, they have to go do what they do to trust themselves. they will get a weapon one way or another. >> secretary harold ford, good morning. two quick questions. one, the any time anywhere inspections. it appears that the agreement calls for a 21 day notice. how do you answer that and two, the idea that $200 billion floats the iranians and some finds its way to the mosque. >> harold, first of all, we have a number of restraints in the agreement itself and outside of the agreement that prevent the iranians or allegedly prevent the iranians. it hasn't been enforced adequately. that's something the president is going to double down on is
making certain that the u.n. resolutions has. if those are enforced iran can be held responsible. in 24 days, i've heard so many off the wall comments about they can flush it down the toilet or it can disappear in that period of time. we are talking about nuclear material and rich material. you cannot make the bomb without enriched material. and material cannot be hidden in a span of 24 days, 24 months or 24 years. our experts are absolutely convinced that nothing can be
hidden in that span of time that presents a threat. >> we have to let you go. before we do, a quick easy question for you. the israeli palestinian peace process, it's not the red socks. that's an easy one to answer. really quickly, the doctor will be asking why didn't you ask him the question. israeli and palestinian talks. i know you're in the middle of this bit any chance of future talks, any future progress in that one area? >> i believe there is a chance. i believe we haven't lost site of that issue. it hasn't been right during the last months for a number of differe different reasons. when this is finished, it's our hope there will be a way to try to perceive forward. >> still ahead, so many of today's policy decisions are seen in the involvement of iraq. >> it was a quarter of a century
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the lexus december to remember sales event is here. lease the 2016 es350 for $349 a month for 36 months and we'll make your first month's payment. see your lexus dealer. 25 years ago the first gulf war began. >> also what has been a quarter century of tension and turmoil. >> in just a moment their thoughts but first a look back at how it all played out. >> it was a conflict the united states neither wanted nor expected. in april 1990, iraqi president hussein admitted for the first time he had chemical weapons, weapons he used before and threatened to use again setting the region on edge.
hussein's rhetoric only heated up that summer weakened by a drawn out conflict with iran. >> he has moved part of his 1 million man army to kuwait. then on august 7, 1990, the iraqi strong men struck captured kuwait. the united states drew a line in the sand. an embargo choked up the flow of goods. iraq was cornered and hussein threatened. >> i shall say whoever collides with iraq will find in front of them colonies of dead bodies. >> it is truly iraq against the majority of the arab world. iraq against the rest of the world. >> months of careful diplomacy
led to a 45 day dead line set by the u.s. security cancel authorizing military force for the second time in its history. con capitol hill members clammered to have their say. >> only congress and the administration. >> legislatures okayed the decision. when final diplomatic efforts failed, it was a tested will between hussein and the international coalition. on january 16th, 1991, allied forces joined the fight. >> as i report to you, air attacks are underway against military targets in iraq. >> operation desert storm was in full force. the steady string ol of allied
missl missles. planes skouerred the skies. >> hussein fired missles. the rockets had conventional, not biological or chemical war heads. >> after 42 days of bombing, his army was broken. >> it would have been our intention to take iraq and destroy the country and overrun the country. >> the ground wars end was as sudden as its beginning. they made 100 hours. of the 540,000 deployed 180 died. only later would a mystery illness reveal itself. >> veterans of the gulf war have long complained after illness ranging from flu to cancer. they have dismissed the gulf war syndrome until now. >> in the end, they freed kuwait and left the men in tatters.
>> let's read what richard wrote in the wall street journal. the gulf war today likes like something short and sharp with something clear to finish. they let saddan get away with a blatant act. it was a classic thing. i as a young lawyer couldn't figure out why hussein would march his troops out in the desert and take on the world's greatest military. all of our enemies learn from his stupidity. >> i don't think he thought he was taking on the world's military. my hunch is he thought he could
get away with this. second of all, his toeftd believe at the time we suffered from the quote unquote vietnam syndrome. i don't think what we did was rational. he had greater regional ambitions. my hunch is he thought he could get away with it. >> that's what history, one take of history is he seemed to give him a wink and a nod it would be okay. there was no way, for example, the u.s. ambassador said we're going to send 550,000 americans and we're going to do this. there's no way you could threaten it. quiet honestly, all the arab governments are telling us don't overreact. sadaam is trying to get them to
produce less oil. >> one miscalculation over another continued for 11 years. david, you first visited iraq in 1 1 1980. talk about the long tragic slide in iraq which began 25 years ago. >> what was left over after the battle was an iraq that was fragmented. the kurds loved this. >> secretary bush put in a coalition to get it done.
if you turn the clock back to what's happened sense could they made other decisions in the war? >> we could have done other things and continued the war earlier. further weakened iraq. i think the basic decision was right. not to go into baghdad. we didn't want to take ownership of the situation. i think the lesson is iraq, without a strong man like hussein the place was going to fall pa rt. local identity were stronger than an iraqi national identity. to some extent we weaken hussein. if we try to get ambitious, what happened in 2003 and beyond simply would have happened earlier. i don't think we were wrong. it shows the pathologies of the middle east. local realities are much more powerful than inside the beltway distractions. >> still ahead tom hanks and tom
brokaw share more than a first name. they honor or the the veterans, particularly those who served in world war ii roim. the efforts to draw attention to our american hero. keep it here on morning joe. (burke) smash and grub. seen it. covered it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ and i'm still struggling with my diabetes. i do my best to manage. but it's hard to keep up with it. your body and your diabetes change over time. your treatment plan may too. know your options. once-daily toujeo® is a long-acting insulin from the makers of lantus®. it releases slowly to provide consistent insulin levels for a full 24 hours. toujeo® also provides proven full 24-hour blood sugar control and significant a1c reduction. toujeo® is a long-acting, man-made insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes.
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given to the men and women that sacrifice so much. that's part of the museum to new orleans. >> earlier this year, the museum continued its tradition of recognizing honor, team work and freedom presenting the american award to tom hanks. >> you're in great accompany. you said last night that moment especially given whose being considered incredible accompany. >> you know, every time we do something connected with a museum, there's some fabulous 92-year-old man there that has soon as you look at the metals on his chest you might see the inscription on his hat, he becomes a 19-year-old kid or 22-year-old kid dropped into norm andy. can't get past to fact those guys were there. luckily, they have entered a time where i can much of tthink
been able to tell their story. >> i remember the night we inaugurated this night in 2000. we sat down and brought up a veteran who had been wounded five times on the beach. he took it to death's silence. we both looked at each other and said that's why we're here. it's not about us, it's about him. what's important now is these veterans are at that stage in their lives and they need to know how much they're appreciated and this museum is symbolic of what they did. when people go there, it's a virtual experience for them. the airplanes, virtual reality and the film tom has made. theater shakes, you're under attack. it's a stunning place to go. it's the fourth most poplular museum the america.
>> one of the most important elements of the museum is the establishment of memory and people who have not been to the museum or younger people who don't know what the war is about. you spoke to it briefly at the ceremony and you grew up on the block where everybody served some part of world war ii. your mission to keep these memories alive, how do you keep doing that? culture where there's so many district elements. >> i think you find the human stories and tell them from a human perspective. eugene who wrote the greatest combat memoir of all time went through two of the worst prolonged battles. you think oh, they landed.
they fought for what, 65 days? >> seven years ago this week. >> he got through that without a scratch. he didn't have a single womb where other guys around him were decimated by gun fire and never came back. when you tell his story from that perspective of when he's back, refuses to put on a uniform again and has to sit out and do nothing for months and months and months on end to get not only the experience behind him but also the realization that for some reason he came out of it without a scratch. i think that you get into the humanity that relates to as much today and not just celebrating the nostalgia. >> tom, obviously, as i'm studying this in my daughter's history class you look at how warfare has changed so much over time. the bottom line for you has been the incredible stories, real
true stories of human sacrifice. >> in a way i never could have anticipated. when i wrote the beck i expected them to read in by and large. in a way that's so gratifying to me. through the generations people are coming up to me and the book has been out and they still come up to me. tears in their eyes that say i never understood my father. they saw sacrifice every day. they lost their friends next to them. everyone sacrificed. >> i've got to figure out whether we can get along or not. it was money people and kids coming out working for a common goal. >> also something else to say about the museum, this is from
the ground up. congress came in and said we want to make it the official united states world war ii museum. we don't have money for you. part of what we did is raised the money. this is another way the american people can connect to the generation by supporting that museum. it is a national treasure. i said i think tom agrees with me. it took off in a way. >> why new orleans? >> because it was the original idea built there. >> my daughter. >> there we are at one of the ceremonies. >> we thought it was going to be plywood boats and a cinder block warehouse. >> there's not only a film but you can go to a virtual experience with a submarine under attack. the air wing is phenomenal. they have all the world war ii
aircraft suspended from the ceilings. it really is something that i don't have any hesitation about blowing a horn for. >> tom and i were able to spend the night in one of the b17's hanging. it wasn't a great night. a cherry picker. what a magic night. >> that magic. >> there's perks to this. you know. >> a night with tom brokaw in an old plane. >> coming up, our interviews with three white house contenders and one former president. >> and donald trump from manchester, new hampshire plus governor chris christie who also joined us live. >> also ahead joe's discussion with senator ted cruz and jimmy carter looks back as the iran cry social security and what he calls the worst year of his life. >> morning joe is coming right back. every mom is a coach... an artist...
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welcome back to morning joe on this new year's day. >> happy new year. did you get any sleep? >> no. still awake. >> we're going to kick things off with donald truch. he's drawn international attention by proposing to keep muslims from enter as good the united states. >> it was his plan to deport workers. >> you got donald saying he was going to have a police force.
>> jeb bush said the plan was not only practical but benefitted hillary clinton's prospects. >> we asked donald trump about it hours after he par tas pated in the fourth debate in milwaukee. >> you talk about the possibility of moving a large number of people. i wou i would like to dig in the how. we represent something about ourselves that's different than around the world. did he have a point there and how exactly would you send these people back home? physically how? >> we have to do what we have to do. ike did it and other people have done it and in mexico, you want to go in there, you get thrown out. i had friends that overstayed by a day. they knocked on the door and said you're over by a day. that's how a country is suppose to be run. >> why don't we run that way? >> we have bad leadership.
we really do. lock, the whole thing with the anchor babies, the 14th amendment covers it. you need an act of congress. you don't have to go through a new amendment. the woman is pregnant and goes over the boarder and has a baby on our land and we take care of baby for the next 85 years. it's not that way. if that happened in mexico, mexico would throw you the hell out. mexico is the hardest country in the world just about to become a citizen of but they send
people over here. i'm talking about asia and all over the world. >> i understand what you're saying and describing but still tell me the how. are you going to have a massive deportation force? >> you're going to have a deportation force and do it
humanely and bring the country and frankly, these people because you have excellent wonderful people, fantastic people that have been here for a long period of time. don't forget you have millions of people waiting in line to come into this country and waiting to come in legally. i always say the wall. we're going to build a wall and it's going to be a real deal and a real wall. there was a picture in a magazine where they had a wall this tall and they built a ramp. that's not going to happen. it's going to be a trump wall, a real wall and it's going to stop people and it's going to be good. but your
friend thomas called me and said there should be a big door. i love the expression. there's going to be a big beautiful nice door. people are going to come in and come in legally. we have no choice. otherwise, we don't have a country. we don't know how many people. we don't know if it's 8 million,
20 million. no idea how many people are in our country. then you see what happened with kate in san francisco, all the things going on and crime going on. it costs us 200 billion a year for illegal immigration right now. 200 billion a year. maybe 250, maybe 300. they don't know. we're going to stop it and run it properly. >> so people will face ramifications. >> people will leave. >> how are we going to pay for this? >> they're going back where they came. they came from a certain country and going to be brought back to that country. that's the way it's suppose to be. they can come back but come back legally. they can come back but have to come back legally. i have to tell you so many people are in love with it. the loudest applause last night at the debate was when i said this. even i was surprised. the place went wild. now, i tell you the other thing.
the people that like it more than anybody are the hispanics here legally. it's a radio host on new york the other day wrote a story about them who said i can't believe hit. the hispanics love trump. they're talking about listeners and came here legally and went through the long process and came here legally. he's talking about all the people. it's a hispanic station. they love trump. >> your opponents say you look at the polling numbers. >> we just had a poll come out and i'm beating hillary clen ton. romney choked. frankly, had he energize it had base because the base didn't go out and vote. you understand that which is should being. they're not fans of obama. he is for some reason, had they
gone out and voted, the people that set back and didn't get up and vote, he would have won the election. >> how have you unified the party though? how do you get everybody together? how do you unify the paert. you've said tough things about jeb bush and marco. >> i said let jeb talk. >> i really appreciated that. >> is that a nice thing. >> somebody said i only said it with carly. that's false. >> john kasich doesn't seem to like you or your policies. >> i think he likes you and i think he's a nice man. i have no problem with anybody. >> mike barn cal and michael into the conversation. just reading a washington post story about ben carson. i want to ask you about dr. carson, donald because a couple of times you've talked about hitting his mom in the head with a hammer and stabbing someone in negative light meaning has it
come so crazy we're actually arguing that this happened as a good thing. he actually meant that these things happened in his life and faith turned him around. is it fair the way your characterizing those two events and how important is faith for someone who wants to lead a nation? >> i think faith is important. i'm a prodistant and presbyterian. i don't want to get into it with ben because i have a very good relationship but he wrote a whole thing about the hammer and going after his mother with a hammer and hitting people in the face with locks and things like that. >> it's about finding his faith. >> they're pretty severe. i never went after my mother with a hammer. if i did i was in big trouble.
treatment facilities cost money. what is your view on how we get more treatment facilities in this state and other states? >> well, you have to have that. it's amazing. i've gotten, i'm up here a lot. from here i go and make a speech at a certain place and i'm going to have a lot of fun. i'm in new hampshire so much. people don't realize the heroine is in terms of adiction, when i learned about it a couple of years ago, one of the things about the boarder is it's coming over the boarder. it's coming and pouring right over the boarder. the same boarder i'm talking about. for the most part the same one i'm talking about.
we have to stop it from coming in. you have so many already hooked. we have to do something to help them. new hampshire has an unbelievable problem. i guess more per capita. >> just follow, phil and we'll go to sam. you would be willing to spend money to pay for the treatment facilities? >> it's not that would i be willing, they have a problem here. it's incredible. new hampshire seems to have a bigger problem than other places. you go to other places and you don't talk about it. i think it's the number one question i get. >> it's cheap and coming in from places like boston and fi
philadelph philadelphia. >> you were a tough on crime guy. have you had an evolution like a lot of the country has? >> no. i'm definitely not. >> what about sentencing? >> tolerance? >> i am tough on crime and we have to stop crime. you look at what's going on in the inner cities right now, it's unbelievable. it's all in one little section. >> like to three strikes you're out stuff. >> marijuana you're looking at very strongly because people are being hurt badly by emergency and some states it's totally legal. >> michael steel. >> they changed last night between rand paul and marco rubio was probably one of the most important for the national republican party. what is your view of that?
that tension that exist right now between the traditional view of cutting the spending and getting control of our debt and deficits and wanting to expand as a lot of the neocon hawks want to do, military engagements as well as defense spending? >> my view is you have two sections of the party. the people in my party, the conservative republican group of people you know well. we're more forward and want to strengthen up. the world is looking to kill us and blow us up. we have a lot of problems. for the most part, people would not be on the rand paul side of the equation. there's a big faction that feels look, we have to get our house in order. we understand it. i think we can do both. i'm very much into the military. i want to bring back jabs and make great trade deals and i want to bring the commerce back to our country. look at caterpillar stock and some of the countries.
other companies are absolutely killing them. we have to bring our jobs back and we can have both. >> coming up, ted cruz sits down with joe for a wide ranging conversation. why he's accusing marco rubio of knowingly running false adds against him. that is next on morning joe. it's a fact. kind of like playing the boss equals the boss wins. wow!
welcome back to morning joe. ted cruz has mixed words when it comes to dealing with the islamic state. the republican who is vowed to make the sand glow by carpet bombing it. >> he just repeated it on morning joe a few weeks ago and here the senator is explaining how we're going to destroy isis once he became the commander in chief. >> we start with overwhelming air power. here's the point of reference. it is first persian war we had carpet bombing. after 37 days our troops went in and in a day and a half mopped up what was left of the army. in 1,100 air attacks bombed th
them. it's doing no meaningful damage to isis. that's not the end of it. it's not just air power. additionally, we should be arming the kurds. they're long time allies of ours. they are fighting isis right now. isis has u.s. military equipment they've seized in iraq. yet the obama administration refuses to arm the kurds because they don't -- that don't make any sense. the kurds are in a real -- >> also, obviously, turkey causes complications with turkey. >> it does. that's all right. our object should be defeating isis and they've been an air one friend. >> should turkey be in nato? >> you can second guess it. in minimum if they remain in
nato they should behave like an allie. >> boots on the ground. if they come to you and say there's no way we're going to get into raqqah and destroy their economic intra structure without sending in 10,000 troops. will you be willing to do that? >> of course, if it's military necessary to defeat isis. . you see candidates talking about boots on the ground. >> if your general told you it needed to be done like many of president obama's generals are telling him now. >> let's step back. i don't believe they're telling him that right now because they're not starting with the objective. over a year ago zwlchlt you don't think the generals are telling him that right now? >> i think many of the generals have been giving political
advice and repeating the talking points of the administration. >> right. a big change. >> it is a big change. >> if you go back to general dempsey, the prior chairman of the joint chiefs, a little over a year ago there was a hearing where i asked, i said if the object was to utterly destroy isis, not to weaken them, utt utterly destroy them, would you tell us in your expert mail tear opinion what is required to do that and general dempsey responded and said that's not possible. i said okay. general, perhaps the time frame is unrealistic. you give me your expert judgment. what's a time frame that's realistic and what would be required to accomplish it? his answer wurz there's no military sclugs to the problem. we have to change the underlying positions on the ground. >> i want you to speak right now
to primary voters and general election voters. when we hear that, when we hear it's about, you and i differ on background checks on guns, when we hear it's about guns and refugees and poverty on the ground, when one after another master mind quote master mind comes from a middle class to upper class, what do you tell voters? >> that's nonsense. the solution to isis is not expand and made kate iraq. kill the wad guys. >> if the generals tell you and the admirals tell you what they need and it may be 10,000 troops
and may be 5,000 troops and may be carpet pounding as you say. if they tell you this and tell you mr. president there will be civilian casualties, is that a risk you're willing to take. any military conflict. >> when you're talking about solders whether it's an enlisted man or four stars, over and over you hear the rules of engagement and we're sending sons and daught daughters in with both arms tied behind their back. what he's doing makes no sense when they're sending in not allowed to wen. frankly, he's reprizing what we saw in the vietnam war. people being sent in and not allowed to accomplish the task. i think if we send our sons and
daughters into harms way they need to win with overwhelming force and get the heck out. >> marco says you made america less safe because of your position on nsa data collection. what do you say to that? >> marco is a good friend and we serve together. yesterday he wrote a fan taste rancic article and conservative view that said he needs to stop engaging. the attack adds he's running against me are false. >> what's false? >> his super pack is spending $200 million. what they're saying is was i supported the ussa freedom act and strengthen the ability to go after terrorist that somehow i'm responsible and along with me con seb tifs like tim lee and
senator chuck scott all of whom supported the ussa freedom act. >> do you stand by that vote still? >> absolutely. >> we hear law enforcement officers saying they can't get the san bernardino terrorist over the past five years because of that vote. >> if you look at what that decision did, it's interesting. there were two polls on that debate. on one side you had my friend and colleague senator rand paul who wanted to shut down communications all together. i disagree with rand on that. the other side had marco rubio who had no changes whatsoever. we're safer when they have the ability to read your phone calls and e-mails. >> is marco rubio a big government republican? >> he has far too often othagre with hillary clinton and barack
obama. >> do you think marco rubio is a big government? zm he wants as much power in washington as possible. he has agreed with lindsey graham and john mccain and thinks we should keep stick as good our nose in foreign entanglemen entanglements. >> what's your response to chris christie? >> of course, other candidates in this race are attacking. in the last two weeks super packs of marco rubio and jeb bush have launched attacks on me. several other candidates have launched personal attacks on me. hillary clinton has attacked me twice. barack obama has attacked me twice and the new york times, a columnist wrote a column anybody
>> the new jersey governor is planting his flag in the state. >> we caught up with the presidential contender and there the conversation turned to climate change, immigration reform and whether the governor has a volcanic temperature. >> you know, voters, there are colorful voters in the crowd in new hampshire. strange character and behind him is mike and willie and mike this morning wearing the same thing he wore last night. >> did you sleep in it, mike? >> unlike everybody else here, i worked all night. >> whatever. >> those things don't wrinkle. under armour. >> i respect that.
>> i saw it last night and you inspired me. you were an enconspiracy ration and willie shaved for god shake. the no shave november thing. >> first question, guy in a tie, mark. >> governor, people are going to start coming after you if you have success. one thing people raise with me all the time is your temperam t temperament. they say in private you have a volcanic temperament. >> no. not true. >> you have the temperament to be commander in chief. >> absolutely. >> what about marco rubio? anything in his career that raises judgment to be president? >> no, nothing that comes immediately to mind. again, my point is you need to have the right type of experience to make these decisions. i think we have seen over the last seven years someone who has
not had to make these decisions finds it difficult to make. i've been making these decisions for years and we're talking about a lot of good people. we have a lot of good people running for president. marco is one of them. the fact is we're talking about differences now and the difference is i've made these decisions and my first and sole priority as president is to protect the american people's safety and security. if you don't do that, nothing else matters. zm one more question on immigration. there's a lot of people in your party who are taking a firm position with the people here illegally. they say wait until the boarder is secure. what do you say to those who won't take a position? >> what i say to everybody is that the american people are not ready for anybody to take a
position on that. here's why. they don't trust the government to do their job to begin with. they say we're not giving you any further authority to do anything else. the american people are right and smart about it. they don't want us to do anything else about that. until we prove we can do the job in the first place which is to secure the boarder. i don't think it's an indecisive decision. i think it's responding to what the american people is telling us. secure the border and get that fixed first. >> ploers would like some stability. you don't want to address it for them. >> no, ploers, what they should be doing is hiring people here illegally. they should be fined double what they make off those folks.
this is partly the president's problem. he doesn't like the law, he doesn't enforce them. >> are you personally benefitted from the work of the 11 million people? >> i have no idea. have they benefitted? i'm sure they've wbenefitted bu also real cost. >> governor, last night at the town hall in loudon, you made light of the president of the united states being in paris at the climate control conference and said he's assembling a coalition on climate control. grade the president of the united states on national security right now. >> fist, mike, let me say this.
the president is focussed on the wrong climate change. the climate change we need is in this country. the climate between the people and the government is poisonous. the climate we need to change is the climate in this country. on isis, i haven't seen a coalition put together yet. his deputy national security adviser was on television and asked him what about invoking article five, what do you think should happen? here what he is his deadly weapon youty national security adviser said. we're going to wait and see what france does. joe, i didn't think i was going to live long enough to see a nato dispute and the president said i'm going to wait and see
what france does. >> following up on the climate change question, do you believe in climate change? is it occurring? >> climates always changing and we cannot say that our activity doesn't contribute to changing the climate. what i'm saying is it's not a crisis. >> it's not a crisis. >> i don't know the exact numbers. i know we've had one record setting year after another as far as the heat on this planet. so i don't buy that, joe. >> what do you mean you don't buy it? >> i don't buy the fact that it's a crisis. i don't. >> why not? >> because i don't believe it is. i don't think there's any evidence that's a crisis. >> you said you would not accept any new syrian refugees going as far as saying no exception even orphans under the age of five. do you want to rephrase that? >> no. what i want to say is no syrian
refugees should be admitted until the fbi director tells congress and the american people that he can effectively vet them. in fact, he said the exact opposite. he went before congress and said we cannot assure you they can be vetted. this is a guy i worked with and he was my boss's attorney general and worked for a republican president and democratic president. i'm not going to listen to barack obama and his united nations crap. >> if were a prosecutor in new jersey knowing what you know about hillary clinton and her use of e-mails and classified material, would you consider prosecution? >> i would be taking a long hard look. i guarantee that. i say this. i would make that decision the same way as i made them when i was u.s. attorney. if the evidence is there, you make the call. >> still ahead.
(burke) smash and grub. seen it. covered it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ with us from washington jay winik. the year that changed history. thank you so much for being with us. 1944 obviously the most critical year of the war. d-day, so many other things happening. tell us why you decided to write the book. >> i had written another book about the end of the civil war
and i'm interested in profound moments in time. in 1944 it turns out as an unforgettable story. it's a tragic story. it's about fdr, a deeply dying man and this was kept from the world and largely kept from history. it's about the two most significant events of the war taking place both at the same time. first was military which was the impending d-day invasion and the second twuz most profound humanitarian c humanitarian crisis in history. the gassing of the jews. it's as if you took everyone in boston and put them on a train and brought them the washington. fdr had to deal with these evts at the same time. it's an unforgettable story. >> we're forced to face is unfortunate reality. the horrors you bring back to life in this book talking about
just how heartless and ruthless the notsies were marching these jews to their death. >> yeah, no, the notsy wrs just, it was a kind of form of -- they've rounded up the jews and put them on cattle car windshield no light, food, air, journey. on a trip many died. they were beaten and dehumanized and but in cold and forbidden rooms where they had to take off their clothes and told they were going to take a bath and be disinfected when in fact what would happen is gas would come
out and. >> and the calculation of cruelty is even brethd taking knowing they were going to their death. you talk about the hooks they're told to put their clothes on and remember the number of the hook so they would get their clothes. their children told they would be put together with their parents after all of these things just mental torcher. >> it's gut wrenching. i've been told be many readers it's difficult to read but i felt it was important to capture for history and for today just the level of tragedy they had to face. >> there's always been a lingering question in history how much did the united states know, why didn't the united states act more boldly prior to the end of 1944 or 1945. what did roosevelt know? are there any real answers to this? >> there are real answers.
i look at this in great depths. it's almost like a history unfolding. from 1942 on increasing reports went out. it laid there all the details and by 1944 the question came can we do something about it and why not bomb them. as it turned out, americans were flying above and beyond and at one point they bombed them by mistake. what was the response of the jewish inmates? they cheered. the great nobel award i had dinner with him a few years ago and we talk ed about this. he said we didn't fear death. at least not that kind of death. it could have been a profound symbol to the world that certain types of bar barety cannot
stand. one of roosevelt's top aids wrote a memo calling a bombing and said even if we kill a few of them in a process, many will escape. he said they're all going to die in the gas chambers and miss placed if we don't do something. one other thing is quiet significant. henry, who is roosevelt's best friend and influential secretary of treasury wrote the hardest hit memo ever written in american history to roosevelt in which he talk ed about the government's act we essence. after he wrote it the two met in the white house and roosevelt set up the war refugee board which was designed to do nothing but help the jews. >> vivid and important. the book is 1944 fdr and the year that changed history. jay winik, thank you so much. thank you for writing it. >> thank you, jay. coming up, there's been a lot of
two issues. we asked the former commander in chief to talk about what's changed since he was in the oval office. >> you went through a turbulent time in the south and the turbulence continued even last month but we're seeing some pretty dramatic changes fairly quickly in the south. could you reflect on that and what you've seen? >> i grew up in georgia and we have about 200 african american neighbors and we were the only white family that lived there. all my play mates were african american. >> butch:s. so i was immersed in a black culture throughout my young life. i didn't realize the distinct n distinctions between black and white people because the local church was the same as the one in charleston and the most
powerful person i've met was a bishop named william dexter johnson. he wrote in a big cadillac, had a chauffeur, had a photograph in front of the eiffel tower in paris. to me he was the epitome of success. so i looked on african-americans as not only my neighbors but potentially very successful in the world. i had a slightly distorted attitude toward them. i didn't realize my friends' mothers and fathers couldn't vote, couldn't sit on a jury, the schools were inferior, the schools were full of spirit, superior to ours in that respect. it was only when i was in the submarine force and harry truman was commander in chief that he ordained without any prior notice that racial discrimination should be eliminated in the military
forces and also in the civil service. and he was condemned in the south because of that, as you may know, we had a dixiecrat candidate, strom thurmond and truman was not even on the ballot. he still won. i was in submarine school then. we had a very troubled time when i came home from the navy. i was acquainted with the complete integration of the black and white and what a relief to have that millstone removed from around our neck. now we have a majority of african-americans on our city council. and i was very impressed but not surprised at the remarkable response within the much and
among its members after the horrible tragedy in charleston. to me this is maybe not typical but not surprising to reach out even in the face of horrible tragedy. >> obviously the iranian hostage crisis was very important to you. i asked dr. brzezinski once about desert i and the special ops. i said was that the low point of your service? and he stopped and thought about it and he said, "i think it may have been the low part of my life. and you talk about how when you got word that the hostages were
released. it's extraordinary hearing just how personal a burden this was on you day and night and day and night. >> that was the worst year of my life by far when the hostages were being held. we had negotiated for three days and nights, i never went to bed the last three days i was in the white house to get the hostages released. and early that morning of inauguration day all the hostages were on the runway in tehran ready to take off and for some reason the ayatollah would not let the plane take over until about five minutes after i was out of office and president reagan had taken resumption of power. it was a wonderful moment when the secret service came and whispered to me that the plane
had taken off and the hostages were all brought to safety. attacking iran militarily may have been a popular judgment but the first reaction would have been to slay, to kill the hostages. >> here we are removed and we can look back and we can see that but with the entire country, i remember people saying turn iran into a parking lot. how hard was it for you as president of the united states to do what was deeply unpopular and say i'm going to be a statesman and do what it takes to make sure that when they leave iran, they don't leave iran in caskets? >> a month after they took the hostages in november, the last part of november, i sent word to the ayatollah through germany and through some other nations to make sure he got the word that if he injured a hostage, i
would close all access from iran to the outside world by minding their harbors and so forth and if they killed a hostage i would attack iran militarily. he knew i would do it and i would have done it. and he never injured a hostage and never killed a hostage obviously. so every within of them finally came home safe and free. and i think with brzezinski's advice and others -- >> you don't have to be nice to him. his head is big enough. >> well, i agree with that. but since you put him in the thing and mika's not here -- >> exactly, you can say that. but he and i were in agreement on that. but i think the nation would have responded favorably politically speaking if i had bombed iran. it was a great temptation, even my wife on occasion said you needed two more in a military
way. but i didn't want to. i was committed to peace and i was lucky enough to go through four years without ever dropping a bomb or launching a missile or firing a bullet. so we got through that and everybody hostage came home safe and free, which is what my first prayer was. >> that does it for this new year's day edition of "morning joe." thank you so much for joining us. >> so this is the first day for the rest of your life and the first dave the year. how are we going to get started? >> i will get up at 3:30 in the morning, i'll do "morning joe," i'll go running and drive my kid around and around and around. how about you? >> i'll drive my kid around because like geico, that's what i do. >> msnbc live is next. have a great start to 2016.
a very good morning to you. i'm richard lui. millions around the world ringing in the new year. about a million people right there packing into new york city. they saw that in times square. they watched the waterford crystal ball drop at midnight. in paris it was a more subdue celebration after the terror attacks that left 130 people dead. paris