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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  January 5, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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look into this, he signed the disaster declaration. we're going to have much more on this story tomorrow and in coming days, but that's the very interesting news out of flint tonight. watch this space. we're going to see you again tomorrow night. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> great opening segment tonight. i mean great, comparing george wallace and donald trump. just amazing video you lined up there. i couldn't take my eyes off of it. >> thank you very much. my script ended up upside down and backwards in the tell prompter so i had to wing it a little bit but the tape speaks for itself. >> i couldn't tell. >> yay! >> ted cruz says he doesn't want a fight with donald trump, but donald trump is going to start the day tomorrow with an old, familiar trump attack line. this time, trump will be questioning ted cruz's citizenship. >> we had a big, big breaking story a few minutes ago. >> trump took a huge swipe at ted cruz. >> asking whether ted cruz can
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be legally elected president because he was born in canada. >> i tweeted out a reference to fonzi jumping the shark. and i think i'm going to let my response stick with that tweet. >> is this a sign that trump sees cruz as a real threat here? >> why does he do whatever he does? trump shows no signs of stopping his attacks on both hillary and bill clinton. >> it's going to be when they attack me, i'm going to attack them. >> he can say whatever he wants to say. >> i could be the worst person in the world, i'm not leaving. >> donald trump is the kim kardashian of politics. he's famous for being famous. >> i would be annoyed, too. >> i love my people. >> 61% of trump supporters believe the trump lie that president obama is not a natural born citizen of the united states of america, and therefore an illegitimate president. barack obama was, of course, born in the united states in
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honolulu. ted cruz was not born in the united states, and donald trump finally seems to have noticed that. now that ted cruz is ahead of trump in polls in iowa. ted cruz was born in canada to a mother with u.s. citizenship. ted cruz's father at the time was not a u.s. citizen. donald trump now says that could mean that ted cruz is not a natural born citizen as the constitution requires as one of the qualifications to the president. donald trump said that in an interview with "the washington post" today in an exclusive interview that will air tomorrow in full on this network on "morning joe." >> i want to ask you something about ted. actually, there's a legal mind on the conservative side that has been saying that he has concerns that ted cruz may not be qualified to be president of the united states, may not meet the qualifications.
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>> because of where he was born? >> because of where he was born. this is something obviously you talked about before with barack obama. it's something that i suspect we're going to be hearing more about in the next couple of weeks. is there any validity to those claims? >> honestly, i hope that's not the case. i hope that's not going to be a problem for him. but everyone is hearing and everyone is talking about it now that he's doing better. i think they're looking at it. and it's a problem for him and it's a problem obviously for the republicans, because if the democrats -- let's assume he got a nomination and the democrats bring suit. the suit takes two to three years to settle. how do you run? it's certainly a concern, i guess, for the party. but i hope that's not the case. i'm not involved in that. but a lot of people are bringing it up, absolutely. >> here's the way donald trump talked about this issue just a few months ago when he was running ahead of ted cruz in iowa. >> do you still think he's ineligible to be president because he was born in canada? >> no, from what i understand everything is fine. i hear it was checked out by
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every attorney and every which way and i understand ted is in fine shape. >> yeah, ted is in fine shape. tonight, ted cruz said this -- >> i tweeted out a response to donald trump's raising questions about my natural born citizenship. it was a link to fonzi jumping the shark. and i think i'm going to let my response stick with that tweet. i do it because the best way to respond to this kind of attack is to laugh it off and move on to the issues that matter. >> and this is the tweet that ted cruz is referring to. my response to donald trump call into question my natural born citizenship, he then includes a video of "happy days" which gives us the perfect excuse to show fonzi jumping the shark one more time. >> there he goes!
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>> in a new national poll, nbc poll, weekly tracking poll, donald trump has just about double the support ted cruz has. donald trump is at 35%, ted cruz at 18%. marco rubio 13, ben carson 9. joining us now, tim pawlenty who ran for president in 2012. and wendy davis, former member of the texas state senate. wendy davis, has this question of cruz's citizenship come up during his political career in texas? >> no. it really hasn't come up. and i think it's awfully clever the way that donald trump is bringing the issue forward. it's been really interesting to watch the way cruz and trump deal with each other. they sort of dance around each other, neither coming too hard with their hits at the other one. and i think that's because they understand that they share a
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great deal of similar support. and each of them is hoping that they'll be there to scoop up the other one's supporters when whomever it is of the two fails. >> tim pawlenty, we' actually never had a nominee of a major party with the birth situation ted cruz has. the closest we came was john mccain who was born outside of the country when his father was with the navy, but both his parents were american citizens at the time. and the united states senate was concerned enough about the issue for john mccain they unanimously passed a resolution in 2008 saying that they considered him a natural born citizen under the terms of the constitution. i'm not sure that this senate would do the same thing for ted cruz. >> well, first of all, i think the biggest problem that trump has is that the source that he
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loves the most, himself, has already said that this isn't a problem. >> but that's never a problem for donald, you know that. >> but even if you want to get past that grand source, then you have the issue of all the leading scholars and at least some lower courts in a glancing fashion have looked at this and said, if your parent, your mom or your dad is an american citizen, you are a natural-born citizen, regardless of a place of birth with a few caveats. so ted cruz's mom was obviously a u.s. citizen. he was born in canada. probably not an issue, but it should be noted, never really been addressed by the u.s. supreme court square on this, lawrence. but i don't imagine it's something that is going to stick. it's just donald trump casting a seed of doubt. against something he himself said wasn't an issue three or four months ago. >> let's listen to hallie jackson talking about the way things are going for donald trump now. >> at what point do you start to draw those distinctions with donald trump? >> listen, i like donald trump, i like ben carson, i like marco rubio. i like all the candidates
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running. they're good people. i consider them friends of mine. >> even when they question why evangelicals don't come from due bah. >> politicians behave a certain way when they panic. they engage in personal attacks. that's human nature. i understand that. i'm not going to get drawn into that muck. i'm going to keep the focus on the irk sthus that naert. >> wendy, you've been watching ted cruz longer than we have in texas, but it's funny to say trump is panicking and then she says trump is panicking? then he says he's not going to talk about that. >> exactly. it's very, very clever. and he has thrown that kind of mud himself. he certainly did that in his race for the u.s. senate against our then sitting lieutenant governor. i think what he's trying to portray right now is the confidence of someone who believe he's on the up-swing,
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and exhibiting a confidence that he hopes is going to be something that affects voters to believe, this guy is our guy. he's the guy who can do it. he's trying hard to stay on the good guy of the other candidates, not to be the victim of their attacks right now. i think it's a very smooth and clever way for him to operate, given the upswing that he's been on in the last couple of weeks. so as you pointed out in this recent poll, it showed donald trump breaking away from him once again. >> when you're looking at what may be the long road to the nomination in the republican party, i think one of the most important polls we've seen yet has just come out in california. this is the field poll has ted cruz at the front of the pack there with 25. donald trump at 23. marco rubio down at 13, then ben carson 9, rand paul 6, jeb bush 4 and so on. but to see ted cruz out in front in california, which is far down
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the calendar and is the biggest delegate prize you can get in this whole thing, that's a very impressive standing for ted cruz at this point in time, given he hasn't campaigned a day in california. >> and i think even more to the point, lawrence, if either of those candidates were to implode or start to deteriorate in their support, the trump supporters obviously aren't going to go to a remaining establishment candidate, nor are the cruz supporters going to go to remaining establishment candidates. it's basically 50%. if you've got one or two other candidates still in the pack, 50% probably wins that race. so you're facing a situation where notwithstanding their perceived weaknesses, as general election candidates, cruz or trump nomination is certainly plausible at this point. >> and now ted cruz is trying to get to the right of donald trump on immigration and southern border issues. i'm not sure that's possible,
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but here's his try. let's take a look at how he handled this on this video. >> do you support all the legal immigrants. are you willing to say the same? >> absolutely yes. we should enforce the law. and, in fact, look, there's a difference. he's advocated people to come back in and become citizens, i oppose that. >> i don't know if you can see the screen on this that we had subtitles there. it's basically cruz saying he's going to be tougher in enforcing the law than donald trump has already claimed he will be. so he's countering some of marco rubio's accusations that he's been soft on this in the past. but i don't think there's room for him to go right of trump on this. >> there isn't a dime of difference between him and donald trump or for that matter most of the republican candidates on this particular issue.
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what i do find fascinating is that no one from the group of republican nominees right now has challenged either cruz or rubio on this issue of the very special treatment that cubans receive in the immigration system in the united states. the wet foot/dry foot. once that foot touches american soil, cubans are given a very special route to citizen in this country, amnesty, if you will, which they say, of course, they stand in opposition to. so as cuban born or, excuse me, cuban lineage citizens themselves, it's very interesting to note that they have not been pushed on this question. and i'm interested to see if this is a place that donald trump will go with cruz. >> wendy davis and tim pawlenty. thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. >> you can see the entire donald trump interview tomorrow on "morning joe." coming up, a live report from
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oregon where those armed insurgents are in a standoff in a federal building with police and federal authorities. and why the mormon church has issued a statement denouncing them. used to see me. ever since i had a pretty bad accident three years ago. the medical bills - the credit card debt all piled up. i knew i had to get serious my credit. so i signed up for experian. they have real, live credit experts i can talk to. they helped educate me on how debt affected my fico score. so i could finally start managing my credit. now my credit and i - are both healing nicely. get serious about your credit. get experian. go to experian.com and start your credit tracker trial membership today. his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... this is brad. hey brad, wanna trade the all day relief of twoleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain,
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>> the march to the republican vice presidential nomination seems to be continuing just fine. the governor of south carolina has been chosen to give this year's rebuttal to president obama's state of union address to congress. that's next tuesday night. up next, we have breaking news now in oregon where that standoff is occurring. heavy equipment is being moved into the scene. we have a live report next. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain...
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only from citracal. >> the fbi is considering a next move after a standoff with insurgents on federal land in oregon has stretched to over four days. the last hour or so, there's been a lot of activity around that area surrounding the federal building. for the latest, we're joined now by nbc national reporter tony dacopel live in princeton, oregon. tony what's the latest there? >> well, lawrence, just this afternoon, the situation here seemed to be calming down. the leader of the occupation suggested if the locals don't want him here, he may go home. after dark all that changed in a radical way and became much more tense. in an impromptu press conference, one of his colleagues also emerged and what they reported is not confirmable yet with the fbi or authority,
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but it does give you insight into their mind set. as they understand it, there have been five warrants issued for their arrests. and they don't plan to accept those warrants and they don't plan to go quietly. so over my shoulder is a man under a blue tarp sitting in a rocking share with a rifle over his lap. i interviewed him under that tarp just a few moments ago, and he -- >> tony, can we get a better camera shot of that? can your camera -- >> we might be able to. it's more important to see that than to see you at this moment. can we get closer on it? so there's a guy under that tarp there. >> there's a 55-year-old rancher from arizona. he's got 11 children. he's mormon. and he came here because he's upset about federal control of vast stretches of lans in the west. he says there's a warrant out for his arrest. we can't confirm that, but that's what he says and he does not plan to accept that warrant, he does not plan to go peaceably
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if the police come. he says he's not going to pull a gun on them but if a gun is drawn on them, he's going to point back. he says he loves freedom too much to ever be in a cell. and the second development, you might hear the rumbles of engines. there's a bulldozer and an earth grader, or a road grader. they're about 25 feet to my right. i asked the driver of the bulldozer what are you doing with this equipment, which is federal equipment, by the way? and he said protection. you need protection to shoot. so these guys are prepared for what they see as a coming raid, a federal raid. and again, that's their mentality. very much a siege mentality. we're working to confirm what the fbi's actions are, or what the fbi is preparing to do at this moment. but i can tell you that the sense here is very tense. there's a fire that's been built just over my shoulder to the right here. and there's a guard station that's going to be here all night. we're going to be monitoring it because this just entered a very unpredictable, very volatile new chapter.
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>> so tony, you said that heavy equipment there, the earth mover is federal equipment, but the rebels, as we would think of it, are operating that equipment? >> yeah. they're operating that equipment. >> where did they get it and how did they get it there? >> they got it from the -- about 500 yards down this road there is a gathering of buildings, a visitors center for this wildlife refuge here, and that's where the occupants have taken over a position. and they say they didn't break in. they say they found a stack of keys, which is highly doubtful. and they also say they found a stack of keys for these pieces of equipment, which were parked down near the buildings. these are federal pieces of equipment. they might have been hot wired. maybe they really did find keys. but it's an extension of alman bundy. you have to remember in 2014,
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cliven bundy stared down federal agents who came to take his cattle. and the federal agents blinked. they backed down. he still owes them $1 million 234 grazing fees. he has not paid them. and it remains to be seen if the federal agents will again back down or if it's going to be different. >> tony, what access do they have to food? >> well, they had limited access, dwindling access. and we were here all day long and we didn't see any provision shipments come in. there's some yelling over my shoulder over here. >> let's get that camera in on him coming out of the tarp. >> that's lavoy finnikan right there. the weapon is under the blanket. he's got a rifle over his lap. and he's in high spirits. he says his children are grown, and if it's his time to go --
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>> so tell me everything he says to you implies that he will shoot and murder any federal about who approaches him with a gun or a weapon aimed at him. but his language seems very carefully tailored to not specifically say those words. that's someone who's sitting there planning to murder federal agents. >> i don't think he would say murder federal agents, but somebody who is not planning to move from that position and if guns are drawn from him, he will draw a gun back and if shots are fired, he intends to shoot back. >> but no one is going to fire a shot at him. he has said to you that he will not go to prison and he's holding a gun saying i will not go to prison if people come here to take me to prison. >> that is what he is saying, absolutely. and present take here, alman
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bundy and the other demonstrators are saying publicly, we are peaceable, we don't mean to cause any type of violence, but in essence what they've done is taken someone's seat or occupied someone's home. this is federal government's property. those are federal buildings. so it's a bit disingenuous to say we don't want to fight. you're sitting in someone's space and daring them to come back. not wanting to fight and taking those actions are not really compatible. >> it sounds like they're trying to play street corner lawyer and be a little legalistic about this. we're joined now by jana reese. the mormon church chose to issue a statement today denouncing these people. what is the mormon component of what we're watching there? >> yes, you're right. yesterday the church issued a statement that strongly condemned, and that was the
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language used, these actions by the militia, terrorists, a big question about nomenclature right now, how we refer to them. and the church is trying to distance themselves as what is seen as extremists who do not represent the faith. >> we've seen republican presidential candidates constantly harping on this notion of extreme islamic terrorism. are we seeing some form of extremist mormon terrorism here? what would we call this? to what extent are they basing what they're doing in their scripture? >> you know, this is such a tiny minority of mormons that to apply that extremist label to mormonism in general feels unfair to many mormons. i imagine that it feels just as
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unfair to many muslims when the vast majority of muslims are peace-loving people. this is how it feels to have that stereotype applied. and i tell you, it does not feel good. >> but one of the people there is called himself captain maroni. that's taken directly from mormon teachings. this seems to be exactly what you hear muslims around the world saying isis does, that they take pieces of the faith and they twist them into a shape that has nothing to do with the way muslims are living today. >> i think that that's a very accurate thing to say. the "book of mormon" is being appropriated in some very creative ways that most mormons would not agree with to justify this kind of violence. there is definitely violence in the book of mormon, just as there is violence in the bible, and there's violence in the koran. thoo there's violence in these stories of the book of mormon. but that violence is not glorified and certainly not prescribed as a manner of living.
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so for them to call upon this script you'll example of captain maroni is one of the things that the church finds troubling. in this statement yesterday, the church said two times that there is no scriptural justification for violence. >> you're sharing a screen here for a man sitting under a tarp you heard about us talking about before. he has a weapon that he intends to use only to resist arrest by federal agents. and it seems, based on what we've heard from these people that he believes that he has a religious justification for what he is doing there under that tarp right now. >> you know, people that their religion justifies them to do a lot of things that are fairly heinous. and in my mind, this sounds like a situation is brewing that could be a tragedy.
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and it is still possible to avert this situation. there is no justification in the churnl of jesus christ of ladder day saints for taking your private arms and seizing a government building, or setting fire to property or not paying your taxes. the 12th article of faith of mormonism says that we will obey the law in the nation es in which we live. as a mormon, i believe there's probably times in history when the 12th article of faith should be set aside. if there were an oppressive ree -- regime, absolutely. we would want to stand up. if there was systematic oppression of human beings, we would want to stand up. but this is not one of those times. >> janet reese, thank you for joining us tonight. i think we can get a shot of him on our screen and we'll see if we can get anything to come back to there, if he has any comments that tony can bring us up to date on. we'll be right back.
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>> what will it take to resolve? very simple. iran should back off. they should stop being aggressive. they should stop interfering in the affairs of their neighbors. they should stop supporting terrorism. isn't that what all of us around the world want. >> joining us now, the co-founder of the muslim reform movement and author of "standing alone -- an american woman's struggle for the soul of islam." what's your reaction to what the saudi foreign minister just said? >> i would say that he should look in the mirror and say those exact same words to himself and the leaders of the government of saudi arabia. for the last 40 years the government of saudi arabia has exported to the world an ideology of islam that has wreaked havoc in the world. it has fed terrorist groups from sudan to malaysia and indonesia. it's caused the killings of people in san bernardino, california. and these arab countries that are standing with the government of saudi arabia are standing on the incorrect side of history. we as muslims in the muslim
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reform movement are part of the resistance. we refuse to accept this ideology that the government of saudi arabia has put forward. and this is not for us, a sectarian battle. this is a battle about our faith. what is so remarkable is that a leader of the government of saudi arabia can have so much denial about the monster that they have unleashed into the world. they have to take responsibility and end this tranl diof the islam that they practice. >> asra, the saudis executed a shiite cleric solely for things he has said and things he has said in opposition to their regime. they had to know what the reaction would be in iran. >> and around the world, lawrence. people are condemning this execution throughout the world. i'm seeing from muslims an expression of condemnation against saudi arabia that i have
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never before seen. i've seen people finally standing up to this dynasty that claims to have stairway to hen. and, in fact, what they represent is a very, very dangerous ideology. and so when they murdered that cleric, what they did was continue an entire decades-long track record of punishment, of bloggers, poets, women, civil society activists that simply want human rights and freedom. and, you know, we really have to look teep deep in our hearts as americans and as citizens of the world. the people of this world stood up against slavery in the south, the white streamists in apartheid, south africa. mahatma gandhi stood up. they're not representing the right interpretation of islam
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for our world today. we need to challenge their ideas of violence, sexism,sogony, and we have to do it with courage. >> come up, president obama's action on gun violence. this is brad. his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... hey brad, wanna trade the all day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve.
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the information may or may not be accurate, but it appeared to be highly credible that five warrants were issued for our arrest, for me, alman bundy, ryan bundy. and i''m not sure about the other two, by the fbi, federal warrants. if that is true, if to that is the case, i do not want the fbi, federal agents to have to go run around in the dark kicking in doors looking for me, okay? i want them to know exactly where i'm at. >> if they come here with an arrest warrant and try to put cuffs on you, what's your plan? >> well, they're not going to just come up with a guy holding a rifle and put cuffs on him, okay? they're not going to do that. >> what do you think they're going to do? what are you prepared to do? >> well, i hope that they go home. that's what i hope they do. >> let's presume they're not. let's presume if there's not a warrant already out for your arrest, you're breaking the law for occupying this federal property. when that warrant comes down,
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when that arrest come, what do you intend to do as a response? >> i have been raised in the country all my life. i love dearly to feel the wind on my face, to see the sunrise, to see the moon in the night. i have no intention of spending any of my days in a concrete box. and so whatever days, and i believe that there will be many, and hopefully prosperous days to come, i will spend them riding my horses, trying to take care of my cows. and that's what i will do. but i will not spend it in a box. >> so to avoid getting in that box, you're ready to do what? >> you guys have so many hypotheticals. >> if they come here and try to arrest you, they point a gun at you and try to arrest you, how far are you going to take this? >> don't point a gun at me. don't point a gun unless you're intending to shoot them. that's the first lesson, don't
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point a gun at me. >> so you're prepared to die. better dead than in a cell. >> absolutely. would you like to be in a cell? no one wants to live their life in a cell. absolutely i'm not going to live my life in a cell. >> so you're prepared to die over what prince exactly? >> it's about our country. it's about federalism. it's about the government closest to people governs best. what happens is the powers of the government have been -- those powers have been brought back up into a centralized government. and so the counties and the states, those things that were dealt at county levels and state levels are now so regulated by the federal levels 245 our freedoms and our ability to have contact with the representatives on a one-on-one, face to face basis is gone. it's gone. i have sat down with my county sheriff face to face.
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i sat double play with my county commissioner face to face and, you know, john mccain, he's not going to sit down with me face to face. and if he does, heel promise me lots of thing, but he won't be able to change anything. that doesn't happen. let the states manage and govern the things that pertain to the state. let the counties manage and govern the things pertaining to the counties. and let the federal government go back to managing and pertaining to protecting our borders and depending our nation. that's what they need to do. a few narrowly defined things that the constitution lay downs. let's just go back to that. >> there's a man over our shoulder here with a bullet proof vest on and assault rifle. and there are two pieces of construction equipment that have been moved. the people who move them say they're for protection. they're something to shoot behind. how well armed and how well prepared are you in there? >> i don't know what they're doing back there. i had the tarp over my head when
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they were moving that stuff up. so i don't know what they're doing, what their choices are going to be. their choices must be their own. but obviously, this is my choice. and so i'll deal with what i am doing and what choices i ever make. i can't speak for them. >> you've got a family? >> i do. >> have you said goodbye to them. have you told them to prepare? >> no, i haven't told them to prepare. i just told them that i love them and, you know, i spent a lot of time with my family. i tried not to neglect them as i've raised them up from children. i spent a lot of time doing things with them, making them a priority in my life. and so my youngest is 1. she's a little firecracker. and she'll be able to handle the cows and stuff if i come home sooner or late or don't come home. they are capable children. they are very refined. i have two son-in-laws and a son.
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and another person in the military. i have three of my children in the military. and they're -- one is studying to be a doctor. and one is an accountant. these are good kids. >> you know, there are people who are watching this who are going to say to themselves, this man is a terrorist, he's occupied someone else's property. and he's got a death wish. evidently, that's one of your fans? >> that's a good man. there are people watching in this who would say you're a terrorist. and you've gone a death wish and you're asking for it. >> i have no death wish. i love life. i have 20 grand kids. actually 19 and two on the way. >> so you've got something to live for. but you're prepared to die? >> i'm prepared to defend freedom. >> tony, can you just ask him what his reaction is to the morton church condemning his actions there. >> yes.
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lavoy, what's your reaction to the mormon church condemning your actions here and the actions of your colleagues. >> again, i want to make this very clear that this in no way is condoned by the church. i'm not speaking for the church. i don't represent the church. these actions must rest squarely upon my own shoulders. >> we'll be right back. may raise your blood pressure. that's why there's coricidin® hbp. it relieves cold symptoms without raising blood pressure. so look for powerful cold medicine with a heart. coricidin® hbp. i absolutely love my new but the rent is outrageous. good thing geico offers affordable renters insurance. with great coverage it protects my personal belongings should they get damaged, stolen or destroyed. [doorbell] uh, excuse me. delivery. hey. lo mein,
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>> the day we traveled up to have newtown for that massacre was the worst day of his presidency. >> president obama's normally flawless composure cracked when
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he talked about those first graders who were massacred in newtown, connecticut, in 2012. >> our inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, those rights were stripped from college bigs in blacksburg and santa barbara and from high schoolers in columbine. and from first graders in newtown. first graders. and from every family who never imagined that their loved one would be taken from our lives by a bullet from a gun -- every
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>> we're joined by governor dan malloy who was with the president. what's it like to be where once again the president invoked what happened in your state to those first graders. >> well, you know, lawrence, it was really quite an event. the president has layed it all on the line. if congress can't do it, he's going to do even more than he's done already. he was speaking to the parents of the kids from newtown, and parents and spouses who have lost their loved ones in these mass shootings that have happened time and time again. you know, i had to tell folks one time in sandy hook what had transpired and that they wouldn't be united. he's had to comfort many
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families over the seven years that he's served. and i think there's a sense of frustration and anger and, yes, grief. he showed it. the tears were real. quite frankly, there were a lot of tears in the east room today when he was talking. >> let's listen to what the president said about the action that was taken in connecticut after the massacre of those first graders. >> anybody in the business of selling firearms must get a background check or be subject to criminal prosecution. doesn't matter if you're doing it over the internet or a gun show. it's not where you do, but what you do. we know background checks make a difference. after a law was passed in connecticut, deaths decreased by 40%. and the evidence tells us in
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states that require background check, law awiding americans don't find it any harder to purchase whatsoever. their guns have not been confiscated, their rights have not been infringed. >> governor malloy, there was the president using connecticut as an example today. >> yeah, and a good example, i think. we know what works in america and we know that requiring background checks works. we know that requiring permits work and training courses work. we know how to make america safer. and we're not -- connecticut is not the safest place in the world, but we're a lot safer than some of the states that have almost no rules. i mean, the idea that in southern states along the i-95 corridor up and down the east coast, we see guns coming up from those states all the time. we can tries guns used in crimes and whether it's in bridgeport or new haven or philadelphia or new york or washington, we frequently know where those guns have come from or where they were last sold or changed hands.
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we need to close these loopholes. we need to make america safer. no one should be buying guns on the internet to escape a background check. terrorists shouldn't be in our country able to buy a gun without a background check. if they can -- if we're wrong about that their status, then in connecticut them get a hearing. and fairly rapidly. if it needs to be even more rapid, send it to the courts. but let's not sell guns to people who shouldn't have them. if we take that simple step, we'll make america a lot safer. and if other states would join connecticut, we would make connecticut safer. >> nr a's initial reaction for this was kind of unusual for them. they kind of ridiculed it saying after all this time, this is all he's doing? this is nothing. but still they're opposed to it, even though they say this will not significantly impede anyone's ownership of guns. >> yeah, there's something
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special about the nra. they once were for background checks and now they're not. they dictate to the industry that you won't be involved in making guns safer. they have been behind campaigns to close shops that sell safer technologies. they've gone all in and all out and in many cases they've won. but in places like connecticut and new york and delaware and elsewhere, they're not winning the way that they won in the past. and people have got to stand up. i think that was the message that the president was trying to tell americans. we don't have to accept 30,000 deaths a year. we don't have to accept the fact that 400,000 people have died as a result of guns since 9/11. it doesn't make sense. and we can make america, my state, all of our states, safer with some simple rules that aren't designed to take anyone's gun away, but simply to make our country a safer place for law abiding citizens. >> governor dan malloy, thank
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you very much. really appreciate it. appreciate you telling us what it was like at the white house today. >> thank you. >> chris hayes is up next. president and commander in chief. and i feel ready to fulfill both role. >> that was hillary clinton in our big interview tonight. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in des moines, iowa. a few hours ago, hillary clinton gave me her first interview in the year 2016. you'll notice the colorful backdrop of the osage firehouse. thank you, madame secretary. this is a big interview for us. 22 years we've been doing this and this is one of our big ones. i want to ask you about 12 questions tonight. >> okay. >> in two segments. i hope we get through them all.

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