tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC January 6, 2016 10:00am-12:01pm PST
counterpart. this will be the fourth nuclear test north korea launched since 2006. well, this is something we have been talking about for a long time. nobody talks to him other than dennis rodham. >> it is not confirmed but what is confirmed is he's a lunatic and he's dangerous and this administration has done nothing about it. >> this underscores the gravity of the threats we are facing right now and also the sheer folly of the obama/clinton foreign policy. we are facing a maniac who may potentially have a hydrogen bomb. >> so again we're waiting to hear from the white house briefing. but there we have the presidential candidates out on the campaign trail for the gop talking about what this means. i want to begin, though, with nbc chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. what are you hearing from defense officials about this and when they can have sufficient
verification that this truly happened? >> what we're hearing here at the pentagon, thomas, is a lot of skepticism as to north korea's claim that they actually tested a hydrogen bomb. a piece of evidence that everybody is pointing to initially is that this many earthquakes created by whatever exploded there in north korea registered a 5.1 on the richter scale, which is the same level 5.1 that occurred in three previous tests of what are believed to be atomic bombs. and quite frankly, those tests were pretty much confirmed. the u.s. -- the only way they can really confirm this is by testing the atmosphere. not clear how far they are along in collecting air samples, but they could detect any kind of radiation that may have been released even if the bomb was detonated underground. but at this point that could take weeks if not months to finally determine.
in the meantime, the u.s. is conducting whatever surveillance they can to collect whatever intelligence they can. now, one of the reasons they don't think it's even possible is because it is so exponentially more difficult to create a hydrogen bomb than it is an atomic bomb, and nobody believes that north korea has the technology at this point, thomas. >> so that will take us from fission to fusion. but explain what this does to diplomatic relations with china, also with japan and also with south korea and the concerns that this raises for that part of the country, or that part of the world, excuse me, for those countries. >> well, when you talk to some people here at the pentagon, the big concern is, not perhaps that this was a hydrogen bomb but that it only solidifies north korea's intent to become a nuclear power. that has concern throughout the
region. there was some speculation early this morning that china would be concerned that it would be attacked but wchina's concern i if they would use an atomic bomb, that would cause the world markets to collapse. and there's also a question of, well, if that's the case, why don't we launch military strikes against north korea's nuclear facilities? the problem there is, the most immediate threat from the north koreans is their conventional forces posed on the border of north korea. we have been told by officials here that an opening in any kind of cross-border war with south korea could kill tens of thousands of south koreans. that's how many weapons the north koreans have perched on the border there. so that's pretty much out of the question, thomas. >> jim miklaszewski at the pentagon as you get information, keep us updated. thank you, sir. and now we are joined by a
general there in little rock, arkansas. we want to show our viewers some of the video from inside that country. this is rarely seen footage, but as you look at this, what do you think about the fact that this could be a hydrogen bomb and that intelligence officials would not have any type of heads-up that they had this type of technology? >> well, there's a lot of things that happen behind the scenes that even with the best intelligence you're never going to know. we've been pinching back and forth with north korea on the nuclear issues for over 20 years. we tried to cap this program back in 1994 with an agreement that we would provide them some nuclear energy and we would provide them some heavy fuel oil in the meantime until a nuclear energy got there. and that agreement, it didn't work. the bush administration knew
that the north koreans were moving forward with nuclear plans. the bush administration basically tried to suppress the information and then did nothing with it other than go back to china and ask china for help. so this is a 20-year problem in the building. look, the leadership up there is isolated, they are unpredictable and there's always the risk that some spark could set off conflict. and so as they intensify their nuclear capacity, of course the nations in the region are extremely nervous. this is more pressure on japan to go nuclear. japan has foresworn nuclear weapons. but as north korea gets more powerful or claims to be more powerful, then the pressure is on for the japanese. and that's why the u.s. role is so important. so what we need to do is work with china. and china has to appreciate the fact that the advantage is
having the united states and japan in a strong relationship. the whole idea is to stabilize northeast asia, not racket with conflict. >> as we think about the geography here and china taking up the main swath of territory front and back into north korea and south korea at the bottom of the peninsula with japan just over the sea of japan, the technology issue here is the fact that they have moved from fission to fusion potentially. and that means what? explain to everybody about what a hydrogen bomb and its ca capabilities are? >> well, this is getting more capacity into space and weight. but they have moved from a nuclear device that explodes into manying th inin something deliverable by missile. and they have been testing missile technology, so that's been the real threat. and this is one more explanation or exclamation point behind it.
we are continuing to test, we are continuing to make progress and that means we can potentially lob a nuclear missile at you. and of course that's a very frightening prospect when you have a leader who gives these extraordinary threats out. whether he means them or not or does it for domestic consumption, of course there are a lot of motives behind these things. >> it's a ripple effect of intimidation. >> absolutely. it just underscores the importance of the u.s. role there, our relationship with japan and korea. the fact that we still have troops on the korean peninsula. that's a very good and very important thing. and china has to appreciate that. >> general wesley clark, sir, always appreciate your time and insight. thank you. let's move on to the news and the developments out of oregon in the siege by armed protesters that has now entered the fifth day. nbc news confirmed that the fbi has told the sheriff that at some point those protesters will be charged. so protesters will air their demands on how they believe this
could end peacefully at a news conference coming up at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. meanwhile, the sheriff says a plan is in place to end the occupation but didn't go into specifics about how. this morning congressman greg walden echoed other leaders in recent days saying it's time for them to go home. >> americans have the right to protest, but it should not take this form. and it is time for those who are there to depart. they have made their case. >> nbc national reporter tony picolbo is live there. any indication about what their demands are and when the sheriff is going to say, enough is enough, we're moving in? >> reporter: well, the demands are very big ones. if you would look at a map of the united states, you would see the vast portions of the western part of the country are controlled by the federal government or federal lands. the protesters here want that land transferred to the people as they put it, meaning states
and local governments. they also want two local ranchers to be released from prison. they are serving a five-year sentence that began on monday for arson on federal land. those demands are extremely unlikely to be met so tensions are rising. last night you mentioned the charges. the group here also heard charges were coming down and thought a siege was imminent and took steps to protect themselves. they moved heavy construction equipment into a barricade position. they came out with assault rifles. we hadn't seen guns earlier and then four guns in cam moe emerged with heavy duty assault rifles. another man sat in the middle of the road with a rifle over his lap and dared the fbi to come and get him. he said he would not go alive. so the tension is only going up. but, at the same time, the leader of the occupation here is still hopeful that there will be some sort of resolution. we spoke to him last night and here's what he had to say. >> it's not about me. it's not about me going to jail or me dying or anything like that. it's about the people of this
county upholding the constitution. the federal government has to abide by rules, too. you know, government has rules, too. and it's not just them being able to place rules on the people. it's them abiding by the rules and freeing the people. >> reporter: so there you have it, thomas. that's amand bundy. >> we'll have the news conference at 2:00 p.m. eastern. we'll watch that for everybody. reporting live there, tony dokoupil, thank you very much. and joining me is a hostage negotiator who was involved in the siege at the branch compound in waco, texas in 1993. and also an nbc correspondent. the sheriff is going to say, this is going into day five, we need to get control of the
situation. you have to go home. >> right. i think it's probably going to splinter these groups, you know, they don't have one leader, not like david karesh where all the cult followers thought it was a god-like figure. this is not the way it is in the american militia movement. even groups on the web are calling these guys -- they are getting hungry, they are fantasizing what may happen to them and some hard core ones may stay. the next few days will play out. >> what kind of wacky double standard are we witnessing here if this wasn't this type of presentation of men and women showing up on our tv screens that have taken over a federal building? and i think you know what i'm getting at. >> no, i totally agree. i do think this would be a different scenario even if this same group tried to take over a
federal building in a city with force of arms and maybe ejected some federal employees. they went out to abandon or knock by their water foul duck reserve on the high desert in oregon on the first week of winter. and if anybody did the same thing, no matter who they were at that place, at this time in this hospitable climate, i would think the response would be the same. but your point is not missed and law enforcement, federal, state, county, city should always act with restraint on any group they're dealing with. >> we'll continue to watch again. 2:00, we'll be holding a press conference and keep an eye on it. jim kavanaugh, always nice to see you. thank you for your time. >> thank you, thomas. absolutely. we turn to the politics of birtherism. the latest political beef between donald trump and ted cruz. donald trump is fanning the flames of recent interviews refusing to firmly answer
whether or not cruz's canadian birth is an issue in this race. cruz's mother was a u.s. citizen born in delaware and responded a short time ago from iowa. cruz suggesting that some people are using this issue to score political points. take a listen. >> as a legal matter, the question is quite straightforward in settled law that the child of a u.s. citizen born abroad is a natural born citizen. people will continue to make political noise about it, but as a legal matter it's quite straightforward. >> ted cruz sounding a little more serious there than on tuesday when he told reporters during a media availability the best reply to those questions was to laugh it off. he also tweeted this video from the tv show "happy days." fonzi, you remember fonz, and the time the show jumped the shark. fo fonzi jumped the shark. trump is not saying cruz cannot run for president.
here's how he explained it when asked during an interview to air with my colleagues on "morning joe." >> well, honestly, i hope it's not the case. i hope that's not going to be a problem for him, be i've been hearing a lot about it and you have been hearing and everybody is talking about it now that he's doing better. and i think they are looking at it. and it's a problem for him and it's a problem obviously for the republicans because if the democrats -- let's assume he got a nomination. and the democrats bring suit. the suit takes two to three years to solve. so how do you run? it's certainly a concern, i guess, for the party. but i hope that's not the case. i'm not involved in that, but a lot of people are bringing it up, absolutely. >> nbc's hallie jackson is on the road with the cruz campaign and joins me now by telephone. hallie, you have been on the go with the campaign moving stop to stop as they go to 28 different places in iowa. and cruz really gave a demonstrative explanation saying this shouldn't be an issue. he used, correct me if i'm
wrong, mccain, rodney and goldwater as examples. obama never came up as a relatively trump target for how all of this was born. but is he taking this more seriously now and feels he needs to talk about it with the type of tone that dispels it? >> reporter: i don't think so, thomas. that's my sense from him, especially since he brought it up because he was directly asked whether this was a settled legal matter. he answered the question and moved on, but i think you need to look at the response he issued last night. fo fonzi jumping the shark. he laughed it off. this is something we have seen from other trump attacks in the past. that comment where trump called him a maniac and then you saw ted cruz himself typing out that maniac tweet and tweeting out the link to flash dance. so for him strategically, he doesn't feel as though, my sense is he needs to engage with donald trump. i think you look at how other
candidates have engaged with trump and seen them not gain much traction from it. there's not really much to gain if you look at past presidents. and i think cruz does see that. as far as the tone he's taking, he does respond to the questions about it, but i'm not sure you're going to see him take too much of a tougher tone. we are looking at the back of his bus. we pulled up to our next stop in sibley, iowa. we'll see you there, potentially. >> cruz is a natural american born citizen and a fan of '80s pop culture. hallie, thanks. the attack on cruz from donald trump and this birther issue, this is a tactic to create a conflict and it works for trump and energizes the campaign he's already established. >> well, although i would say in this case, i think we're talking about something different. and hallie pointed this out, this was brought up in three instances yesterday where trump
talked about the topic. it was brought up by the interviewer in each one of those instances. so we have not yet reached the point and may not reach the point, we will see, where this is something that donald trump goes out of his way himself to bring up and introduce. that seems to be what ted cruz is betting on or at least hoping that trump will not reach that point. so cruz not trying to egg him on. here's another interesting development on this in just the last hour as well, a lot of people today have been waiting to see what will conservative talk radio say about this. because, of course, when it's come to trump and it comes to cruz, conservative talk radio had both their backs for the entire campaign. but when trump made comments, negative comments about cruz last month, conservative radio started to get on trump's case about that. well, rush limbaugh in the last hour addressed this subject and said a month ago it was different. he went after trump a month ago because trump was using democratic talking points, he said, to go after cruz. he says, rush limbaugh, says he's not seeing that in this case and won't be attacking trump over this. let's listen to what rush
limbaugh has to say. >> people have forgotten, and it wasn't that long ago, why it is that i asounded a warning bell to trump on that. it wasn't the fact that he had gone after cruz, it was the way he did it. i'm not going to sit here and tell people not to go after him. that's crazy. but the way trump went after cruz, very, very dangerous. because he was using left wing liberal language. going after cruz the way a liberal democrat does, you don't want to do it that way. but as far as trump hitting cruz or vice versa, have at it, boys. >> so that's an interesting development, thomas. at least for now, donald trump entertaining these questions of ted cruz in his legal status to be president of the united states. that's not generating any blowback, at least from rush limbaugh. we have heard other conservative hosts that are not attacking limbaugh over this either. >> this is just a big shiny
distraction. as we dig deeper into this, i know your political mind knows this as we talk about george romney or john mccain or barry goldwater, none of these folks were truly tested as donald eluded to saying this could be wrapped up in the courts for years. it's never been pursued that far as to send it to the supreme court, but they have never had to make a distinction or decision on this. >> most legal scholar you talk to says there's not an issue here but it is true, it's not something that has been taken to court before. the incident that maybe or the case that maybe most analogous to this was when a senator from connecticut had been born in paris to american citizens who were in paris, but he was born on french soil. and he wanted to run for president in 1980 and got what he thought were definitive legal guidance at the time, that that would be totally fine. again, that was not tested in the court, but ted cruz's situation is most analogous to that. he was born on canadian soil.
when you talk about john mccain, john mccain was born at a u.s. military installation. so you're looking for somebody who was born on foreign soil in the case of cruz. >> i knew you would know this. steve kornacki, best political mind we've got. thank you, sir, appreciate it. we're asking you to weigh in on the trump/cruz conversation. today's microsoft pulse question, do trump's birther questions pose a problem for ted cruz? the pulse is live, head over there and let us know what you think. we're back after this. move, gro, giggle, swerve, curve. lift, shift, ride, glide, hit your stride. only always discreet underwear has soft dual leak guard barriers to help stop leaks where they happen most and a discreet fit that hugs your curves, you barely feel it. always discreet underwear so bladder leaks can feel like no big deal. because hey, pee happens. get your free pair and valuable coupons at always discreet.com
that's why comcast business doesn't leave you there. when you call, a small business expert will answer you in about 30 seconds. no annoying hold music. just a real person, real fast. whenever you need them. so your business can get back to business. sounds like my ride's ready. don't get stuck on hold. reach an expert fast. comcast business. built for business. the man accused of buying assault rifles used in the san bernardino attacks was arraigned a few moments ago. enrique marquez was charged with
inspiring and made false statements. he pled not guilty. meanwhile, the fbi is asking for the public's help in solving a mystery in the investigation. the mystery being 18 minutes missing from the timeline of what the shooters did after the massacre. morgan is outside the courtroom there, tell us what happened in court and we'll talk about the fbi investigation. >> reporter: well, thomas, enrique marques just had a hearing in the riverside courthouse behind me with a white suit and his hands shackled. he spoke in a clear voice declining the charges read but did say he had read the charges, understood them and needed not guilty. those five charges include two counts of false statements, one count of conspiracy each to, a, support terrorists, b, to marriage fraud and c, to immigrant b as a fraud. enrique marquez is a 24-year-old man who was never accused of having an active role in these
december 2nd attacks but he's accused of buying and providing two of the guns used in the attack. his wife was syed farook's sister-in-law and was a russian immigrant. this was done to create an immigration rouge, but if he's found guilty on the five charges, he faces 50 years in prison and is currently being held in neighboring san bernardino without bail. and that trial is set to begin on february 23rd, thomas. the u.s. attorney says that could last 12 to 14 days. >> so we know marquette morgan was a pivotal person talking about this investigation. but what about the hole in the account of this couple after the shooting? >> reporter: this shows there's a lot of mystery around this investigation and exactly what happened that day. just yesterday afternoon the fbi
made a call to the public asking for any information on this missing gap between 12:59 p.m. and 1:17 p.m. now, this is a time where they say they cannot account for where these two shooters were. it was two hours after they shot the inland regional center, but it was just before their tail was picked up and they were found and had a shoot-out with police. so they are still asking for any clues, but they are specifically looking for any electronic evidence, thomas. and again, that just shows how much mystery is still surrounding this case. >> if folks have surveillance cameras or footage they have not reviewed, the fbi would be interested in that. morgan, nice to see you, thank you. coming up next, the bad news keeps coming fast and it's not good for the darling of a restaurant chipotle. norovirus, sliding sales and now a criminal investigation. we're going to give you the details and what the business is saying when we come back. dad, you can just drop me off right here. oh no, i'll take you up to the front of the school. that's where your friends are. seriously, it's, it's really fine.
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i'm francis rivera with developing news. chipotle has been served with a subpoena. this is the latest for the restaurant chain struggling to recover from food born illnesses around the country. 141 boston college students fell ill with the norovirus following another outbreak in california where a criminal investigation was launched. a chipotle spokesperson did not comment on the subpoena saying only it is against policy to speak on pending legal actions. adding that the company intends to fully cooperate. but just last month where the ceo of chipotle took out full page ads in dozens of newspapers across the country. this is now the latest when it comes to pr and business hits for the restaurant chain, thomas. >> they are off to a pretty wicked start for 2016 and had a rough rollout to get away from 2015. francis, thank you so much, appreciate it. i want to go now to the
white house press briefing where moments ago josh earnest discussed what north korea's actions would mean as we wait for verification of whether or not they tested a hydrogen bomb. >> the initial analysis that's been conducted of the events that were reported overnight is not consistent with north korean claims of a successful hydrogen bomb test. there's nothing that's occurred in the last 24 hours that has caused the united states government to change our assessment of north korea's technical and military capabilities. now i hasten to add that we're continui continuing to do the work necessary to learn more about the nuclear test that north korea conducted last night. but you've probably seen by now the extensive independent analysis that's been done in the united states and in other countries that includes significant and understandable skepticism about the claims of the north korean -- the
skepticism of the claims of the north korean regime. so we're obviously going to continue to look at this by monitoring the situation, assessing the available data and evidence. but the initial analysis is not consistent with the claims that the regime has made of a successful hydrogen bomb test. >> reporter: at this point can you rule it was an h-bomb? >> we are hearing that they are denying what north korea is trying to perpetuate. the fact that they were successful in testing a hydrogen bomb. we'll talk to a reporter covering this extensively detailing north korea's capabilities in their technology. but hearing there of josh earnest with the extensive analysis going into this and they are saying, no, that didn't happen. we'll continue to follow that. but up next for you, bernie sanders comes out swinging against hillary clinton attacking her record on wall street and hundreds of thousands
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fight it! getting ready for your close-up? ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. i want to continue with breaking news from washington. the white house reacting moments ago to north korea's claim saying they conducted a hydrogen bomb. the white house says, no, they didn't do it. meanwhile, the national security council met in an emergency meeting. and adding it all up, this would be the fourth nuclear test north korea has launched since 2006. nicholas christoff has traveled twice to north korea and reported extensively on north korea and their potential
capabilities as they want to acquire nuclear technology. nick, you tweeted last night that on both of your trips you had no idea what was going on or what people thought. you called it the most totalitarian country in the world. do you think people in pyongyang even know what a hydrogen bomb is and what their leader claims to be capable of? >> it occurred to me that it is possible kim jong-un said he wanted a hydrogen bomb because north korea is having a party congress for the first time in decades and wanted it as a symbol. he ordered his scientist to test a hydrogen bomb. and they, perhaps, the current thinking is they probably added trilium, that's a variation of hydrogen, and called it a hydrogen bomb in north korea and nobody wants to give the boss bad news. we don't know if that's right, but if this is something north korea wants for political reasons, for reasons of prestige
or trying to consolidate his power. >> to intimidate folks around the world. if you can put up that graphic one more time showing the seismic activity. this is the data out of the four tests we have had before since 2006. and it seems as if the data of these tests all fall within the richter scale of about the same place. so it leaves most people with the analysis they have to say that, no, they weren't able to do this. this is just the same old same old. >> that's right. i mean, although the same old of another test, a fourth test of an atomic bomb is still a real problem every time they test they can perfect their design a little bit. they are trying to get a smaller weapon that they can attach to missiles. so it is a problem, it is just not nearly as great of a problem as a hydrogen bomb with this greater capacity. >> when we talk about that, i don't want to get too crazy about the science in all of this, but that means they are
moving into fusion technology and the capability of that is much greater, especially for anything that they want to do to south korea for any one of many examples. >> you know, that's right. and at the end of the day, i mean, kim jong-un is a scary guy. he's unpredictable and impulsive and has been winnowing out senior officials around him among council restraint. but at the end of the day it is quite unlikely north korea, even if it has the capability to attach a warhead to a missile, would strike south korea or japan. i do think it is plausible they would sell a warhead or nuclear materials to another country, possibly to a terrorist state. and that, i think, is one of my biggest worries, that this can be a real source of proliferation whether it is hydrogen weapon or simply atomic weapon. >> we'll continue to wait for
direct clarification. again, josh earnest saying the analysis they have so far would rebunk this claim, refute the claim that this actually happened according to north korea. but "the new york times" columnist nicholas christoff, thank you for being with me. and david petraeus is testifying before the house benghazi committee. this closed door hearing started at the top of the hour and the republicans say the committee is investigating the facts surrounding the 2012 terror attack in benghazi, libya. democrats say the committee is politically motivated to smear former secretary of state hillary clinton. former defense secretary leon panetta is also expected to testify. that will come up on friday. next, we go out on the campaign trail and hillary clinton is hitting it pretty hard insisting she will not counter punch against donald trump's remarks even as he attacks her for, quote, lacking stamina. more of her interview with chris matthews ahead. to run this bu.
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in a new interview with msnbc, donald trump bashes the runner on the left, hillary clinton, saying she lacks stan stamina. >> it is not that hard traveling in a beautiful united states plane. but hillary clinton doesn't have the strength or stamina to take on our enemies. >> meanwhile, hillary clinton sat down with chris matthews and here's how she responded to trump questions. >> why does he do whatever he does? i can only tell you what i hear from people. and what i hear from people is really about their lives and their future. i mean, a lot of this back and forth that goes on in the political -- >> i know, but he's winning. >> well, we'll see. we'll see. we haven't had a single caucus.
we have not had a single primary. the republicans will have to choose whoever they decide to be their nominee. and i'm looking forward, if i'm so fortunate to be the nominee, whoever they put out. >> jacob rascone is joining me now. we have a big democratic dipper there tonight in november. all three of the democratic candidates will be there. is this supposed to be a friendly affair or a little something else lying just under the nice napkins? >> reporter: you know, these are fairly common. they happen once or twice a month where you have a dinner, they all get together. this would be the first of the year. and they are usually pretty tame. they are more tame for example, than when the republican candidates get together. the jabs are usually more subtle. but i will say this, hillary clinton this year has been more aggressive, more assertive in her six-city two-day tour in iowa. she showed that and talked about electability in a way that we haven't seen before, about bernie sanders, without
mentioning him by name, saying we need to look hard at the candidates, their experience, their positions and electability. now, nevada, of course, is very important. the first in the west, the third state to have a big vote as far as the democrats are concerned, and hillary clinton is doing very well here. she is in the most recent polls doing much better, in fact, than bernie sanders, almost doubling his polling numbers. in one recent poll, that is. we know she's not doing as well in other states and wanting to make her case tonight and using donald trump as a punching bag. >> nbc's jacob rascone reporting in henderson, nevada. thank you. hillary clinton and bernie sanders are still taking aim at each other. now they will be at this dinner tonight, but while they are firing shots back and forth, one stressing electability and the other the dangerous influence of wall street money. take a listen. >> think hard about the people who are presenting themselves to you, their experience, their
qualifications, their positions. and particularly for those of us who are democrats, their electability. >> did hillary clinton help protect wall street? as a new york senator, did she help protect wall street? >> well, do i think hillary clinton or many other senators have shown the courage necessary to stand up for wall street power? the answer is no. >> so msnbc political editor mark murray joins me now. the new online poll from nbc shows clinton well ahead with 53%. this is a double-digit lead over bernie sanders. the poll also finding that people are pretty locked into their opinion. 83% saying they are absolutely or largely certain of their vote. so how does hillary clinton seal this up when she has such a viable contender in bernie sanders? >> reporter: well, thomas, it is important to note the poll you had came from us and is a national poll. the two battlegrounds will be in iowa and new hampshire. and one of the reasons hillary clinton has a very big lead in national polls is she does
incredibly well with minorities, african-americans and latinos. but the first two contests will be in white dominated states in iowa and new hampshire, particularly when talking about new hampshire, that is in bernie sanders' backyard from neighboring vermont. so those contests will be very, very close, thomas. and i love the two clips that you just played to introduce this because those messages are right in each candidate's wheelhouse where hillary clinton is talking about electability and standing up to republicans and protecting the gains made during the obama years in the white house. bernie sanders, on the other hand, is talking about corporate power, wall street, to knock that down. and so two very different messages from these democrats when you look at their issues probably align up 90% to 95% of those along the way when it comes to those. >> when you look at the primary just on the left and the way that the dnc crafted the debate schedule, do you think that this race has properly prepared hillary clinton?
bernie sanders has outperformed expectations. martin o'malley is still there but hardly on the map. but do you think that this race has really vetted her, tested her mettle for a general? >> reporter: thomas, it's so hard to know. sometimes the toughest primary elections don't end up to translate who ends up winning the general election contest. we will be having the fourth democratic debate later this month. not as many as on the republican side, but there is sometimes the question on, is it better to wrap up the nomination contest very early or is it better to going down to the wire with your opponent. i've seen either scenario end up benefiting a party. but it is important to note that if hillary clinton ends up winning both iowa and new hampshire, she will essentially lock up the democratic nomination. so that's why these two contests are very important for her and for bernie sanders. >> mark murray, thank you, sir. appreciate it. >> thank you, thomas. on the other side of the 2016 race, we have donald trump's latest round of comments
raising questions on republican rival ted cruz's citizenship. msnbc's francis rivera is here now with a look at the responses that have to do with our pulse question. bing pulse question today. >> look at the response, overwhelmingly no asking you at home, do trump's birther comments pose a problem for ted cruz? 67% of you voting, no. 33% of you voting, yes. clear how you're feeling about this situation and look when it comes to the breakdown of political party, also. no democrats voting in realtime. in realtime as we take a look here. actually a few here and mostly republicans voting yes, one neutral. independents not so much but very few democrats, as well. keep the conversation going as we continue to ask you to weigh in, do trump's birther comments pose a problem for ted cruz? >> we look forward to it. talk to you again shortly. thank you. coming up, the battle heating up on capitol hill over president obama's executive action on gun control.
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house republicans are digging in over their opposition to president obama's executive actions on gun control. the president gave an impassioned and emotional speech yesterday, even tearing up at times announcing those actions and talking about lives lost. but this morning, house speaker paul ryan hit back asked if republicans plan on suing to overturn those actions. >> this is a distraction. the president clearly does not respect the second amendment rights for law-abiding americans. i think it would be nice if he would focus on actually defeating isis, calling radical islamic terrorism what it is instead of talking about frustrating and intimidating the second amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. we'll not take this distraction for more than it is, a distraction. >> that's speaker paul ryan
today. in 2013, the milwaukee journal sentinel as the representative, he said, you know, there is a loophole here. we should address that and hearing a different tone from speaker ryan now in january of 2016 and we have white house press secretary josh earnest responding to what the speaker said. take a look. >> as confusing as his declaration about a distraction is, it's quite alarming reversal of opinion for him to say that the gun show loopholes are a reasonable issue and, quote, obvious that it should be addressed and now three years later he's denying that it even exists. >> so several gop presidential candidates and the nra come out against the president's actions. it was not a surprise. the big question today -- did north korea test a hydrogen bomb in the last 24 hours? we're going to check in with a member of the house intelligence committee and former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, bill richardson.
with their takes and hearing from josh earnest within this hour they did not do it and they're lying. meanwhile, republican president front-runners donald trump and ted cruz locking horns on a birther issue or are they really? we'll examine that story. protesters who have taken over at a government wildlife building in eastern oregon moments away from unveiling a list of their demands. what do they want and is the sheriff willing to listen?
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good to have you with me, everybody. i'm thomas roberts. new reaction to north korea's claim it tested a hydrogen bomb. secretary of state john kerry said the u.s. won't accept north korea as a nuclear armed state and it's sure to be top of the agenda at the state department briefing set to begin any moment now. you see it on the right-hand side of your screen.
developments roll in. last hour white house press secretary earnest saying this about the unverified claims of north korea. >> the initial analysis that's been conducted of the events reported overnight is not consistent with north korean claims of a successful hydrogen bomb test. there's nothing that's occurred in the last 24 hours to cause the united states government to change our assessment of the technical and military capabilities. >> this is now the fourth nuclear test north korea has launched since 2006. here we see there, that was this morning. citizens in pyongyang welcoming the news with open arms and the story covered of the breaking story from london to washington. i want to bring in first nbc news chief global correspondent bill neilly who visited the hermit kingdom last year. what can you tell us about the self declared h-bomb test and
how to be verified? >> reporter: well, you heard skepticism from the white house and i think that's the word across the world. kim jong-un boasted of this weapon in december and analysts then were skeptical. this test, this announcement was a surprise to washington, beijing and others. north koreans say it was a small or miniaturized hydrogen bomb. earlier this morning officialing tells nbc news that the intensity of the blast was way below the average magnitude expected from a hydrogen bomb and can be dozens or hundreds of times more powerful than an atomic weapon. it will be weeks or months before we really know but not just the white house, a significant number of analysts are now saying that this was possibly a boosted fission weapon between an atomic and hydrogen bomb. remember, north korea started the plutonium program crudely 25
years ago. it is improving that ever since but an h-bomb would be a huge step up for north korea and represent a great challenge, big, new challenge for the international community. this test has been condemned already by china, by russia, those two -- the only two countries really that pass for north korea's friends. but, look. h-bomb or h-light, almost as important for what it tells us about kim jong-un and the determination to grow his nuclear muscle even more. it's certainly a way to consolidate the grip on power. he is young. with this test, he's proving his worth once again to lead the nation. and he's sending a message that north korea won't allow its nuclear technology to be a bargaining chip with the u.s., the u.n. o nor anyone else and meeting at the u.n. today. they'll be discussing sanctions. clearly the lesson of the last couple of years is sanctions, u.n. resolutions, none works.
kim jong-un isn't listening. >> thank you. i want to bring in jim himes, democratic congressman of connecticut and a member of the permanent select committee on intelligence. congressman, let's get trigt this. the richter scale data we have demonstrates 5.1 in unison of the test of 2013. 5.1. so what information is your committee gathering to authenticate the claim? >> as a committee where are more or less where the white house was. there's a lot of questions, people who understand the technology of h-bombs have an awful lot of questions about the size of the explosion and therefore the size of the registration on the seismic scale. but it will be a while before we know for sure. one of the ways we come to know what really happened in a situation like this with an underground detonation is by sampling the environment around that site and, you know, picking
up those elements that will tell physicists what happened. there's a lot of indications right now that this is not, in fact, a hydrogen fusion bomb. we need to wait to see. >> meanwhile, there's been reaction from the right gop candidates talking about this. take a listen. >> well, i think it's, you know, something i've been talking about for a long time. you have a madman over there who probably would use it and nobody talks to him except, of course, dennis rodman. >> it's not confirmed but he's a lunatic and he's dangerous and this administration has done nothing about it. >> and this underscores the gravity of the threats we are facing right now and also the shear folly of the obama-clinton foreign policy. we are facing a maniac who may potentially have a hydrogen bomb. >> meanwhile, congressman, north korea is not the type of country that typically goes into
diplomatic talks but those surrounding it such as china, south korea, japan, those are people we can speak to and china is porous to north korea and what type of come police sit action do you think they're worried that they have incured? >> you got it exactly right. the key player with respect to north korea is the country that keeps north korea alive, provides the food aid, provides all of the money and the energy that allows north korea to survive and that, of course, is china. and, you know, this points in the direction you just played a clip of ted cruz and foreign policy acumen extends to wanting to make the desert glow in syria. it points to an area of common interest we share with the chinese. the chinese, you know, irritating us in the south chi yeah sea, an unstable situation and they hold the leash for north korea and we, if we are going to sort of advance in
cheeping north korea in check, it will be in partnership with the chinese. >> congressman himes, thank you for taking time for me. i appreciate it. >> thank you. another big political story today has to do with birtherism. several interviewers asked donald trump to talk about ted cruz's eligibility to run. cruz was born in canada to an american mom. trump that questioned president obama's american citizenship will only say that a lot of people are talking about cruz's status. cruz previously made a jumping the shark reference via twiser asked about the controversy and here's how he responded today from a legal perspective. >> as a legal matter, the question is quite straightforward and settled law that the child of a u.s. citizen born abroad is a natural born citizen. people will continue to make political noise about it but as a legal matter it's quitd straightforward.
>> in the response to reporter questions, donald trump declaring not ted cruz ineligible but here's how he described this morning on "morning joe." >> well, i mean, honestly, i hope it's not the case. i hope that's not a problem for him but i'm hearing and you have been hearing and i guess everybody's talking about it now that he's doing better and i think they're looking at it and it's a problem for him and it's a problem obviously for the republicans because if the democrat -- let's assume he got a nomination and the democrats bring suit. the suit take twos to three years to solve. how do you run? it's certainly a concern i guess for the party but i hope that's not the case. i'm not involved that but a lot of people are bringing it up, absolutely. >> we have three reports on the state of the republican race and increasingly tough rhetoric hearing. we are going to begin with correspondent katy tur covering the trump campaign. katy, this is kind of the typical trump grenade. throws it, lets it land and
explode and see how the dust settles. >> reporter: it is classic trump. everyone's talking about it. i'm hearing about it a lot. you have been hearing about it a lotment it's him saying, attacking without actually attacking. him being able to say i'm not the first one who threw this bomb. everybody was saying it beforehand and i hope it's not true and gets in the attack without having to take responsibility for bringing it up. and but i do want to add that this is him responding to questions, not necessarily bringing it up himself. he is not saying this at rallies, not bringing it up in front of his thousands of supporters that show up at every one of the rallies and doesn't want to alienate ted cruz supporters and done this in the past, we already heard rush limbaugh talk about it and as the latest controversy of the two of them basically said go at it and a green light from rush limbaugh on this attack. and with that, it could turn out that he's going to say this at
rallies, coming out harder against ted cruz, using that line. but the most hard attacks we have seen donald trump use against ted cruz at rallies have been that he's copying me, copying my idea to have a border wall, copying my ideas on immigration, that he should get credit for it. he's been gentle with him so far in terms of by trump standards and that's because he doesn't want to alienate those voters who also like ted cruz. there's crossover there. >> we'll see if it undermines cruz, all-american iowa racing up to that caucus. nbc's katy tur, thanks so much. now to cover the cruz side of the story, i want to bring in nbc news senior political correspondent mark murray. let's read what advisers told "the washington post." rick tile ler says attacking back clearly doesn't work with trump. it is like attacking your favorite morning host, like
attacking a favorite pop star. fans would hate that. is that a fair assessment of how they are trying to undermine donald trump's credibility with this soft attack? >> yeah. thomas, i think it's, you know, it's fair and also very savvy. we have seen ted cruz going back from the beginning of donald trump's campaign, remember when donald trump criticized john mccain his war record and essentially ted cruz either embracing donald trump or not rejecting him out of hand and what we saw last night when ted cruz first responded by pulling out a famous clip from "happy days" and fonzi jumping the shark on this matter and his earlier statement saying by every constitutional scholar i'm qualified to be president of the states. john mccain was born in the panama canal zones and barry goldwater not in the united states at the time and building a pretty bullet-proof case
coming to this, thomas. but i think when you look at donald trump and you were just mentioning the rhetorical grenades he can sometimes throw, if you're a ted cruz, that can knock you off your game for at least a day or a news cycle an enso that was ted cruz probably wanted to talk about several other things and every news reporter and organization wanted to ask about the birtherism charge. >> no. it's interesting to see ted cruz taking the tactic of not showing up to every fight he is invited to. thank you. >> thank you. >> this is the bing pulse question of the day. we have asked, do trump's birther comments pose a problem for ted cruz? now our previous update showed that 33% said, yes. the birther comments will pose a problem. now, it's different. 45% feel, yes. 55% say, no. the pulse remains live. pulse.msnbc went co pulse.msnbc.com. some are taking selective aim to remain viable. let's bring in nbc host and political correspondent steve
kornacki. steve, this is a look at who is taking aim at each other. not donald trump the front-runner. but kind of firing in their own inner circle. >> yeah. well, whatever's going on here between ted cruz and donald trump is the main event. we have the undercard playing out here at the same time on the republican side. this features two combatants. chris christie and marco rubio. this started because marco rubio's superpac, technically a separation of the campaign and the superpac and the superpac that's backing marco rubio has put two ads into circulation in new hampshire that critical first in the nation state. one of them attacks chris christie over the fiscal record in new jersey. the other one says that he's too similar to barack obama and the superpac for rubio put the ad out there. christie did not take kindly to it. he said rubio can't slime his way to the white house and on "morning joe" this is how he responded to it this morning. >> when you said i don't think marco rubio's going to be able to slime his way to the white
house, what did you mean by that? slime? >> is there something you don't understand about this? listen. i just think it's kind of funny that the guy who very righteously stood up on the stage telling jeb bush someone must have told you attacking me would help you. >> that's not it from the side. the campaign also up with a new ad in new hampshire that responds directly to marco rubio. over what his superpac running in new hampshire. of course, the basic context of this, thomas, is that christie, rubio and add in jeb bush and john kasich, they're all bunched together in new hampshire right now. about 10, 12% of the vote for each one of them. think tier so-called establishment kanld dates and going after the same voters in new hampshire. that vote is divided evenly among four of them right now and all scrambling to separate
themselves and consolidate that establishment vote and take a shot at donald trump running first in new hampshire and with that kind of competition, you see this gamesmanship. >> yeah. chris christie said about the attacks, another day at the ranch for him. steve, thank you, sir. two developing stories this hour. the armed protest earls of a federal building holds a press conference detailing the demands to end the siege. we'll take you to oregon next. and then in another unfolding story, developments out of california. the friend of the san bernardino shooters in court. we take you to the courthouse where enrique marquez entered a plea first time today. i know how it is. you're all set to book a flight using your airline credit card miles. and surprise! those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want. luckily, there's a better way... with the capital one venture card. with venture, you'll earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. and when you're ready to travel, just book the flight you want, on any airline,
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case from the state's controversial chief justice. a name we are familiar with. justice correspondent pete williams following the story. break down the details. >> the name is roy moore and he is the chief justice of the state supreme court in alabama and he is just signed a four-page order. it is not a supreme court decision. it's an administrative order from him as chief justice saying that the probate judges in alabama issuing marriage licenses can't do it until the state supreme court decides whether the marriage law in the state is unconstitutional regardless of the supreme court's ruling last june. now, what the chief justice says in his four-page administrative order is that the supreme court's ruling in june applied only to the four states that were involved in the direct appeal to the supreme court, that it doesn't automatically. >> ply to other states and until the alabama supreme court what this all means, there's no power of the probate judges in alabama to issue their marriage
licenses. so, you know, this order will be good until somebody rushes in to federal court and asks for an order to put this on hold and say that the supreme court decision applies in alabama which will undoubtedly happen at some point but until then the probate judges cannot now issue marriage licenses so it's a temporary bump in the road in alabama until this is challenged in court and the federal courts have their say. >> why's this bubbled up now opposed to what we lived through in the summer of 2015? >> what happened is that there was a challenge in -- as in many states that went to the state supreme court and ruled in march that the state's ban was constitutional. then along came the supreme court ruling in june and what roy moore is saying here is that you got to wait until the alabama supreme court decides, some probate judges went back to
the supreme court and said, hey, do we follow the state supreme court ruling or the u.s. supreme court ruling? that case is pending. and what judge moore said today is that it's caused a lot of confusion so he's saying wait until the state supreme court renders the situation and may be taken out of the hands of the state supreme court if the federal court intervenes here. >> pete, thank you for the details on that. i appreciate it. want to turn attention, focus back the developments out of oregon. we have ammon bundy, the man leading the armed group that took over federal buildings at an oregon wildlife refuge and just finished speaking to reporters and moments ago bundy said they have evidence they hope could get the hammonds released. >> in the 2006 fire that the hammonds were accused of, that they created a backfire, we have evidence of eyewitnesses that saw the bureau of land
management, an agent, two agents from the bureau of land management, that actually lit the fire with a drip torch on the south and the north side of the hammonds' steam mountain property. and because of this fire, it threatened the winter range of the hammonds and the hammonds lit the backfire. >> okay. so the hammonds are the father and son duo that reporting to jail on monday after taking the case to the supreme court and they were convicted of setting fire to federal lands. and the accusation was that they did this to cover up the tracks of actually poaching because they were deer hunting. so, now we have got this and ammon bundy thinking that he's got a smoking gun here about how this fire really started, however, we have got the fact that they are still in control of this wildlife refuge. this is day five. whether or not the sheriff will get involved remains to be seen.
tony decoupli joining us from oregon. hopefully i peeled that apart to everybody properly. correct anything if i was incorrect and bring us up to speed of the sheriff and the folks and when they need to go home. >> reporter: good afternoon, thomas. ammon bundy, the leader of the occupation, unfolding in a cluster of buildings just over my shoulder saying there's a conspiracy, a federal conspiracy against the hammonds and he described a constitutional crisis and to learn certain things this school and also for the first time in a details way talked about what it would take to get him to end this occupation. take a listen to this that. >> there is a time to go home. we feel like we need to make sure that the hammonds are out of prison. or well on their way.
we need to make sure there's some teeth in the land transfers. and also, that those who have committed crimes can be -- those are exposed, as well. >> reporter: so, thomas, you heard there reference to land transfers. now, what ammon bundy is referring to is the possibility of the federal government which controls vast stretches of the american west, i believe we have a map illustrating this. states like oregon where we are in right now, more than 50% federally controlled. nevada more than 80% federally controlled and five states in the west more than half federally controlled and ammon bundy wants all that land transferred to local governments and local people. now, there is a kons tultal reading that would say that's proper but no court has ever sided with that argument and basically back to the creation of yellowstone park in the 19th
century, a popular idea to let the federal government take care of some of the most beautiful spaces. unlikely to he gets the demands met that he's looking for and it begins to be a waiting game here. the sheriff said that it's time for these demonstrators to go home. and it's a ticking clock. will they confront the demonstrators or let the winter do the work and freeze them out? thomas? >> tony there in princeton, oregon, tony, thanks. we have developing news not that far from oregon down south in california where the friend of a san bernardino shooter appears in court. the only person charged in connection with the san bernardino massacre entering a plea for the first time. this as the fbi makes a public plea asking for help to close a gap in the information time line. we take you to california next. . to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her she's agreed to give it up. that's today? we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. after the deliveries, i was ok. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again.
buying two rifles used in last month's attack in san bernardino, has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him. so he's accused of buying these weapons, giving them to farook and his wife used them in the massacre at san bernardino, the inland regional center. marquez on the screen arraigned in court a short time ago. a jury trial is scheduled for february 23rd coming as the fbi is asking for the public's help once again. this time, to fill in 18-minute gap in the whereabouts of the two killers. nbc's morgan radford joins me from the courthouse in riverside. morgan, walk us through how quickly this happened in the courtroom, the appearance of marquez and the fbi investigation, what they're asking from the public. >> reporter: thomas, enrique marquez walked into the courthouse about two hours ago and this was for his arraignment hearing. he was wearing the typical white jump suit and the hands were
shackled and spoke in a clear tone saying he declined to have the charges read. thomas, saying that he had read the charges and understood them. again, these are five charges he's facing. two counts of false statements to police, one count of conspiracy and, thomas, just to remind you why he was even in the courthouse in the first place, even though authorities say he didn't have a direct role in the december 2nd attacks, they say that he purchased two of the firearms that were used in the attacks and coming to his marriage, thomas, authorities say he married a russian immigrant simply to gain access to the united states and they were never actually a couple. if, in fact, he is found guilty on all five charges of these, thomas, he'll face 50 years in prison and he's currently being held without bail. his trial is set to begin on february 23rd and the u.s. attorney says that this trial could last about up to two weeks.
now, even though we're learning more about marquez, there's questions here in san bernardino about what happened with those shooters. there's about 18 minutes of missing tape where the fbi cannot determine exactly where they were and they have now called on the public asking for videos, surveillance footage to account for their whereabouts. thomas? >> morgan radford there in california, thank you. want to return to breaking news, something we've been following here all day on msnbc and that's north korea claiming to have successfully tested a hydrogen bomb. also, we are going to discuss the impact this claim is having on markets here in the u.s. and all across the globe. i'm mary e and i quit smoking with chantix. i have smoked for thirty years and by taking chantix, i was able to quit in three months. and that was amazing. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking.
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north korea's claim of testing a hydrogen bomb is false. here's what josh kirby said moments ago. >> we have consistently made clear we'll not accept north korea as a nuclear armed state. >> so want to be speaking with former ambassador to the u.n. bill richardson in a moment but beginning with colleague frances rivera with a closer look at hydrogen bombs, frances. >> certainly. a lot of people asking what exactly is a hydrogen bomb. it is called a thermonuclear weapon and use fusion. that's when atoms fuse together to release energy and hydrogen bombs can be hundreds times more destructive than atomic bombs. atomic bomb splitting a larger in two and here it fuses two atoms into a larger one and just how strong can be they be?
the united states tested a hydrogen back in 1954 with 15 mega tons of energy in the marshall islands. 1,000 times more powerful than the hiroshima bomb according to "the washington post." if confirmed, this would be north korea's fourth nuclear test since 2006 and you can see how they happened with similar magnitude and saying before the main difference you can basically keep track of it as fission versus fusion. the atomic bomb using fission for those two atoms versus hydrogen bomb using fusion for them making a much larger one, thomas. >> we can see the changes from '06 all the way up to 2016 and the two most recent to 2013 the same at that 5.1 marker data on the richter scale. thanks so much. bill richardson is a former ambassador to the u.n. and former governor to new mexico and made visits to north korea.
sir, it is good to have you with me. i want to show the activity in our newsroom of the white house and state department speaking out and throwing cold water on the claims. do you think that the u.s. can approach this in any way diplomatically? >> well, we have tried and have not been successful. this kim jong-un the new leader is unpredictable. that doesn't mean we don't keep trying. i think china is the key. they have enormous leverage over north korea. i think we have to reengage another diplomatic effort. the six-party talks. maybe an envoy, the pope. this is dangerous, tom. what you have here is some leader unpredictable who has possibly ten nuclear weapons. they're developing their nuclear development substantially even if it's not a hydrogen bomb. i don't think it is because it's
only 6 kilotons and you don't want a tinderbox besides the one in middle east now in northeast asia. new diplomacy is needed and new thinking to deal with north korea. >> we know you're a hillary clinton supporter, what are your thoughts of this being a political issue? as you say, it needs to be handled in the diplomatic arena. does this mean some type of financial sanctions? >> well, we've sanctioned north korea to death. and obviously, sanctions i think they're appropriate. they're the right measures but they haven't stopped north korea from developing their nuclear weapons. they continue to do that. they're starving their people. they don't put anything into the economy or helping the poor in the country. it all goes to defense. i think secretary clinton has a good position and that is basically let's find a way to have a dialogue but the marker
should be that north korea needs to eliminate or deter their nuclear weapons. i kind of think what the possible deal there is something like iran. but the problem with a past deals with north korea was that they weren't enforced by the international atomic energy agency. not good enforcement. but some with good monitors. i think a deal and exchange for food, fuel, lifting some sanctions, the way we did with iran, the international community makes some sense, tom. >> there are people opposed to the iran nuclear deal. when we talk about when's happening right now in realtime out on the campaign trail, donald trump calling kim jong-un a madman, marco rubio calling him a lunatic. ted cruz called him a maniac. you're saying that we need to get the dialogue ramping up diplomatically but what's it say about china and being in any way
come police sit to the growing possibility of a north korea close to the wish to have a hydrogen-style bomb? >> well, china's a bit complicit in that they haven't put pressure on north korea to stop this nuclear development but this may change, this detonation, because it was very close to the chinese border. i think the chinese are getting tired of the north koreans and the provocations on the border with south korea. and i think the chinese finally have to realize that they may be the only lever right now on north korea. russia, too, had some new interesting ties with north korea. perhaps they can help, too. but in the end i can tell you north koreans want to deal with us, the united states. and i think we need some new diplomacy. the administration has enough problems in the middle east and
around the world but, you know, this is a tinderbox. we don't want an explosion there. we have got 30,000 american troops. we have to defend south korea. we have a lot of allies in the region. japan, south korea. you know, china needs to in there and be a little more positive putting pressure on north korea to tamp down. the problem with north korea is they don't talk to anybody. this new young leader. unless you're dennis rodman. >> right. >> i don't think he's met with anybody else. >> they are isolationists. bill richardson, thank you. we have developing news out of capitol hill with david pa tray yus. we're watching that and taking you live to capitol hill coming up next. but first, pitched into the office pool just yet? you should. powerball fever with the jackpot topping $500 million and the drawing is tonight. i'm here at my house, on thanksgiving day and
you know, as we have been covering donald trump still dominate it is polls and the headlines in the 2016 republican race and in a new interview today on "morning joe" he explained his pull with evangelicals and why a new nbc news online poll showed him pulling more of that vote than any other candidate. take a look. >> why do you think those voters are drawn to you? >> well, i'm protestant. i'm presbyterian which means something. which means something to the evangelicals and i always say not too many evangelicals come out of cuba. i don't know. i'm not going to question anybody's faith. but i am -- i am somehow really resonating, in fact, i have great support from some of the ministers and pastors. pastor jeffries. >> what's resonating? >> what's resonating with the people in lowell, massachusetts, a couple of nights ago with
15,000 even maybe more in mississippi? james carville talked about the people in the long line and even james carville said something's happening there. when's happening? why are people waiting in line for hours. >> there is something happening. >> to see you. >> joe, the aarena i took in lowell has not been used for campaign. it's far too big and i took it to -- the place was packed. they had to send people back. it is like that every single place i go. >> joining me now is ken vogel. he wrote a story about how donald trump is getting evangelicals and others out to the polls. ken, it is good to see you. you report that the very fact trump has a data operation may come as a surprise to people. but explain the operation, and also, why it is helpful, why it is going to get people that we see in these stadiums actually
out to vote. >> well, it's helpful because it's -- it's what the question was of "morning joe." it's puzzling to a lot of people donald trump is having traction with some of the demographic group that is don't exactly appear to be tailor made for his message or personality including evangelicals and value sort of a more modest presentation than trump typically comes across with. trump talked about the bible being his favorite book and second favorite book is art of the deal by one donald trump and to identify these folks who for whatever reason gravitating to him and figure out particularly in iowa where turning out your voters is so key because there's really a very small group of people who end up deciding these contests and it takes a lot of information and a lot of outreach to actually figure out who are your voters, how can you reach them? how can you get them out to vote? and data is a key to that. >> you talk about the book, "art of the deal," $10.11 on amazon,
i bought it today. amazon prime. at home tonight. because i want to figure out what goes behind the deal for donald trump. how he's dealing with people. and i think it's probably all there. the road map to using on the campaign. not just to get evangelical voters but other, as well. we have been witnessing the fact that he can pack these stadiums. will the folks then show up on election day? if they're willing to spend that much time in line or whatever they're doing to come sample what he's selling, isn't that really key to saying, you know what? probably going to show up on election day. >> certainly the motivation is there. and you can't fabricate that. no matter how much money you spend on data and targeting people and reaching out and trying to get them to the polls, doesn't matter you don't have a message that's not appealing to them. we don't have to look further than jeb bush when's spent a lot of money on targeting, data and doesn't really have a whole lot
to show for it. trump on the other hand hasn't spent a lot of money on anything that's obvious on the surface to folks closely watching the campaign like a lot of your viewers and us reporters. so it was interesting for us to find out that, in fact, one of the things he has started to spend money on in a serious way is data and it's recognition for, you know, you can't fabricate the momentum and the feeling amongst supporters and can you really replace having the basic building blocks of a campaign to translate into actual votes and data so key, not just for getting out to vote but to target the advertising and finally spending money on television ads. you can't really figure out how best to spend the money if you don't know how w.h.o. you're trying to reach. >> he's acy metrical as a candidate and paradigm excites. ken, great to see you. thank you. >> thank you, thomas.
>> absolutely. we have breaking news with the dow down roughly 311 points. this due to concerns about global economic slowdowns and worries about north korea's claims about a hydrogen bomb test. we'll be right back. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me, and you're talking to your rheumatologist about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb,
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all right. so we want to get to the developments on capitol hill. looking at a live stakeout cam and expecting to see former cia director general david petraeus and entered through the back going to the closed door meetings there on the hill to hear and talk with the house select committee on benghazi. today marks the 609th day since the panel was formed to investigate what happened in libya. before during and after the terrorist attacks there in benghazi 2012, just before heading into the meeting, though, we have the committee chairman trey gaudy defending the ongoing investigation and ranking member elijah cummings
derided it. >> we have learned information that no other previous committee either endeavored to look at or learned. did any other committee access ambassador stevens' e-mails? did any committee access secretary clinton's e-mails? >> so the charade continues. today we'll hear from mr. petraeus and someone who, again, who has appeared before congressional committees some three times now. and so far we have not heard anything that contradicts what we already know. >> so joining me for more on this, capitol hill correspondent luke russert. as we heard there, congressman cummings talking about the general interviewed by a congressional committee. what are republicans hoping to learn from the next round of questions with petraeus?
>> reporter: hey there, thomas. what republicans think they can do is the following. they have been able to ascertain access to athem to go down a new road questioning the questioning of david petraeus in charge of the cia at the time that the tragedy happened and they want the know what the intelligence readings were at that time regarding the consulate where ambassador stevens was killed and the cia outpost that was in the vicinity of that area that area. whether or not it brings new information, they believe because they'll be able to obtain new information and they'll get something. petraeus, of course, embroiled in the scandal that cost him his career a few months after benghazi. they say that because a lot of legal questions from that have been answered it allows him now to be more open in the
questioning than he would have before. nevertheless, democrats say, look, this is going on longer than 9/11 commission. this is a political charade to go as close as 2016 to inflict as much damage on hillary clinton as possible and what do we find out from petraeus. leon panetta as well as susan rice and mr. ben rhodes advisers to the president, what can we find out from them we don't already know? this is a waste of time. so it's going to continue and gaudy says, look, i'll go as far as i want to go. let's see what they find, thomas. >> all right. so we're showing everybody, luke, just so you know on the lower side of the screen there upcoming hillary clinton speaking live in about five minutes at a campaign rally in nevada before the big democratic dinner there and see how it continues to unfold with the committee hearings this week. luke, thank you. want to check in with frances rivera with other stories making head loons and a
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jingle jingle. if you're peter pan, you stay young forever. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. ♪ you make me feel so young... it's what you do. ♪ you make me feel ♪ so spring has sprung. hi, everyone i'm kate snow. we begin today breaking news out of one of the most dangerous and isolated people in the world. north korea declared overnight it detonated its first hydrogen bomb and if true poses a challenge to the u.s. and world powers. a hydrogen bomb used nuclear fusion making it hundreds of times more powerful. in an announcement. north korea called it a complete success and officials in the u.s. and south korea quickly cast some doubt on north korea's claim that it was indeed a hydrogen bomb instead of an atomic