tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 7, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PST
thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the democrats, if they bring a lawsuit on it, you have to get it solved. >> donald trump's birther barrage continues. >> everyone is talking about it. >> 26 days before the voting starts, the republican fight gets simultaneously sillier and uglier. >> we will build a wall that works. >> then bernie sanders continues to pick a fight on banks. >> we need a president who has the courage to stand up to the billionaire class and wall street. >> does hillary clinton have the -- >> i'm running for president and i think not. >> and stopping same-sex marriage in his state and we'll have an update on the still one-sided bundy standoff. >> i have no intention of spending any of my days in a concrete box.
>> when "all in" starts right now. >> good evening. from new york i'm chris hayes. ted cruz has had a pretty clear strategy so far in this campaign. we call it the drafting strategy here on "all in." hope that if and when trump fades, cruz inherits the lion's share of the voters. with just 26 days of the iowa caucuses and cruz holding a narrow lead, the donald has gone on attack making it harder and harder and harder for cruz to hold his fire. trump is asking if cruz, who was born in canada to an american mother, could even be president. >> the suit takes two to three years to solve. how do you run? it's certainly a concern i guess for the party. but i hope that's not the case. i'm not involved in that but a lot of people are bringing it up, absolutely.
>> people just bringing it up. what are you going to do? luckily trump's got a solution. >> the democrats, if they bring a lawsuit on it, you have to get it solved. i would like to see ted do something where maybe he goes into in a preemptive fashion in court to get some kind of an order. >> trump insisted he'd rather be talking about something else. >> do you believe senator ted cruz is a natural born citizen? >> i don't know. i like him a lot. i don't like the issue and i don't like bringing it up. >> as a legal matter the child of a u.s. citizen born abroad is a natural born citizen. people will continue to make political noise about it, but as a legal matter it's quite straight forward. >> it's actually not quite as straight forward as cruz would like. the constitution says no person except a natural born citizen is
eligible to be president. it doesn't define natural born citizen. most legal scholars maintain cruz is in the clear despite his canadian birthplace, the supreme court has never directly ruled, leaving the issue officially as a matter of law unsettled. ann coulter is pushing the claim that cruz is not natural born, which is a flip flop from her position earlier but cruz does at least have jeb bush on his side. >> do you think that ted cruz is a natural born citizen eligible for the presidency? >> yes, i do. look, yes. >> god bless you, jeb bush. birtherism isn't trump's only line of attack against cruz, though trump seems to be taking pains to make it look like he isn't attacking. >> i always say it with a smile not too many evangelicals come out of cuba. i do say it with a smile because i'm not going to challenge his faith. >> he said he, trump, came up
with building a giant wall on the southern border. >> everybody time someone says we want a waller remember whose idea the wall was. when this person said three, four days ago "the wall," shouldn't they give me some credit? politician does not give credit. >> cruz has been backing a wall since back in 2012. immigration is one of the few issues where he's showing a willingness to go after trump as both seek the position as most hardline anti-immigrant members. when asked if all illegal immigrants should be deported, cruz said absolutely. and in fact, look there's a difference, he's advocated allowing folks to come back in and become set sense. i oppose that. >> let me just say this about
this natural born citizen issue, mckay. i think it's petty and ridiculous and i think if ted cruz wins the electoral college, then he should be the next president of the united states and that's it, right? that said, i remember when legal experts were talking about both obama care challenges and saying it's very straight forward legally, it's a straight forward legal question and ted cruz didn't think it was straight forward. it turns out that got all the way to the supreme court. so spare me a little bit about like that's settled law. >> if we were having an actual legal debate about the substance of this, i would still favor the star supreme court litigator over the star of "the apprentice" -- >> that is also true. >> that's not a what -- this is not about settled law. it goes with what he said about cruz's faith, about not many evangelicals coming out of cuba. >> what is that?
i don't get that. >> what donald trump has been doing from the start is he's trying to other size or exoticize ted cruz. i saw a pew poll that said 5% of cubans identify as evangelicals. this guy's cuban. that's what he's talking about. >> here's problem with that, betsy. if there's a more unexotic human being than ted cruz, i don't know who it is. it seems this guy is so in sync, so in line in every rhythm, cadence, gesture, belief with every e-mail that is being forwarded amongst every conservative grandmother in america, you will not be able to exoticize this guy successfully. >> i think that's true. on the other hand trump found
one immigration issue where he's further right than cruz. trump told politico the problem is cruz's immigration plan is cruz can't actually get mexico to pay for the wall. maybe cruz will have a little trouble saying i get you internet commenters, i agree with you 100% on everything. cruz is an affable, kind of nerdy, devout evangelical guy who is very difficult to exoticize. so it's a tall order. >> let me just say affable is -- extremely bright, but affable, i'm not sure. >> what you're seeing as it continues to play sought there is no too far right on emigration. ted cruz leading with it.
you could have seen this coming from miles away, whether it was kantor losing in that primary. the base hates the idea of open borders, it wants a wall, hates the invasion, has a demographic fear and there is no going too far when you play to that. >> that is absolutely true so far in this primary. >> do you think there is a too far, though? >> no. policy-wise, i don't know how far you can get. i don't know if you can get much part than where we are now. politically what i found interesting is donald trump and cruz released adds. donald trump went straight for just appealing to the resentment of mexicans and immigrants and muslims. >> or in the case of the video he actually showed moroccans. >> or moroccans. that may be the more ruthless but effect of strategy.
he's just going straight to the gut of it whereas ted cruz is dancing around it a little. >> the entire political media complex has been circling around ted cruz and donald trump as what happened in the schoolyard of third graders sort of like fight, fight, fight, when are they going to fight, when are they going to fight? and cruz to his strategic credit has avoided it. will he be able to avoid tall the way to iowa? >> maybe. i not it was cue when trump brought up the birther issue, cruz sent him a video of "happy days." after iowa, his numbers are mediocre. there's no reason to believe
that what works in iowa will also work in nevada. we'll have to wait and see. >> the cruz problem is he's got huckabee and santorum as a precedence in iowa. he's nowhere in new hampshire. it's very crowded above him. >> mckay copins and betsy, thank you so much. >> we've been through the silly season of the campaign, we've been through the media games, we've been through the attacks and the mud slinging. this next month it's going to get worse. but the stage for the silly season is over. this is our time now. >> since then we've seen donald trump go full birther on cruz as well as trump entering a feud with samuel jackson that revolved around golf. and trump said i don't cheat at golf but samuel jackson cheats with his game and he should stop doing commercials.
>> hey, guys, i'll be on "the view" in a few minutes. i'm here in whoopi goldberg's trying to pick out some shoes. >> silly season is very far from over. in the real world many of the people who are targeted in these candidates' rhetoric are now targeted by the democratic president. over the weekend according to secretary jay johnson, 121 undocumented immigrants were rounded up as an initiative embraced by donald trump and criticized by bernie sanders and hillary clinton. those apprehended were mostly women and children.
congressman, i've seen a lot of people say, sure, the rhetoric is out of control with donald trump and ted cruz and them but this democratic president is sending women and children back to one of the most dangerous places in the hemisphere where some might face a really credible threat of violence. >> there's no comparison between president barack obama and somebody like donald trump and ted cruz who at this point have not only went juvenile as you just went over a few seconds ago in their rhetoric but also incredibly scary and incredibly inhumane. this president has been a strong advocate for immigrants. now on this policy and the raids, i do disagree and i do think the administration acted too quickly. we've got to remember that the overwhelming majority of the
folks who came from central america in the last few years are fleeing because they're fleeing a country -- countries that are besieged by violence, by gangs and they're in fear for their lives. so i've said all along we should treat them like refugees. i've said also i believe our asylum laws are outdated, need to be updated and the process needs to be completely revamped. it's completely broken. >> you use the word inhumane. do you think what's happen hearing is inhumane? >> i think if we are sending back who are in rightful fear for their lives, i think our nation is better than that and i think the administration should at least consider giving the folks who have been here, who have come here seeking refuge, an opportunity to allow the resources that we're providing to the central american countries, that was just in this big omnibus bill, an opportunity for that to work. we've offered temporary protective status for people coming from nations like the
nation of central america and facing what is essentially a new kind of civil war there. the civil war is between powerful gangs and a government that has been powerless to protect the people from them. >> the white house would basically say this is a country of laws, there is a process for applying for asylum. my understanding is the people litigated their asylum claims and they were rejected and that's what happened. >> most people when they hear that, they say i'm not for open borders but i want to make sure people get their day in court to make their argument and make their case. what i'm saying is the system forthe application process is broken. two things real quick. first, the overwhelming majority of these folks are never represented by attorneys at all. imagine if you were going in front of a judge with a complicated legal matter, you
don't speak the language, you're not even given the application in english. they don't have to give you the application in english, you're going in front of a judge and you've got nobody to help you through that process. that's what these people are facing. >> congressman castro, thanks for coming on. appreciate it. >> sure. >> tomorrow donald trump heads to the heart of bernie company and we'll be there to witness what will be a huge event. trump is holding his rally tomorrow night in burlington vermont, the home of bernie sanders and the city where he launched his campaign. they have already issued 20,000 tickets to the event at the flint center which holds just over 1,400 seats. the police are worried that they expect protesters to turn now the force. an anti-trump demonstration is already planned in the square in front of the trump venue. tune in to see how all of that goes live from burlington historic at the vermont pub and
brewery. if you're in burlington, come down and join me, say hi, first come, first serve. our interview with with bernie will being yuge and the crowd will be really big. coming up, no more same-sex marriage in alabama. that's what the state's supreme court justice is ordering. and later bernie sanders puts hillary clinton on notice but is it a fight he can win? those stories and more ahead. o? try always discreet underwear and move, groove, wiggle, giggle, swerve, curve. lift, shift, ride, glide, hit your stride. only always discreet underwear has soft dual leak guard barriers to help stop leaks where they happen most and a discreet fit that hugs your curves, you barely feel it. always discreet underwear so bladder leaks can feel like no big deal.
the pressure continues to mount rahm emanuel to resign. today in chicago, mourners gathered for the funeral of bettie jones, the unarmed woman killed in the latest police in the city of chicago under circumstances that have still not been explained. meanwhile, one of the senior attorneys in rahm emanuel's own law department in city hall has resigned.
his resignation, coming right after a federal judge's ruling, that this lawyer, in question, intentionally hid evidence in the case of another fatal shooting by the chicago police. rahm emanuel is calling for zero tolerance for city employees not holding professional standards. the mayor is also saying his law department isn't covering anything up. that's not necessary for the justice department, which is already investigating the police department, to investigate the law department as well. stephen patton, the man who runs the law department, and is a confidant of the mayor's, says the judge's ruling doesn't mean his office involved systemic abuse. just a little reminder, here, the city's law department deals with lawsuits against the police force. and according the chicago tribune, monday's ruling comes as a federal judge has cited and rebuked five city attorneys within the last year for withholding evidence in two separate police-misconduct cases. whatever rahm emanuel's ultimate political fate, the fact is there are now more if not fewer questions about the integrity of
the second amendment. let americans have their guns and let them defend themselves and america will be a safer place. >> as the "new york times," it makes a gun-friendly state like texas even friendlier. another texas politician responded by threatening to block federal funding for the justice department. in a letter to attorney general loretta lynch he wrote, "the house appropriations committee will not provide resources to your development for the development or implement ago of unlawful limitations on the unambiguous second amendment rights of americans." >> there are those who are quick to say that is not only is it bad policy, but the president has gone too far. one of them, law professor and conservative john yue, authored a member so saying that torture was nationally and internationally was permissible. he wrote that this was
regulatory overreaction to shootings. up should know a thing or two about the government reacting to tragedy poorly. governor brooks, your fine state of california is a state of a strong gun culture, one of the highest rates of gun ownership of any state in the union. it also has the third highest rate of gun deaths of any constitute in the union. is that a problem? zell with, certainly any time you have people who are killing other people, that is a problem, one of the gravest problems that we face. and i would hope that we as a society, particularly those elected officials in washington, d.c. would try to address that problem that caused that problem rather than doing so much hype and hyperbole that is really not touching on the main issue. the main issue is why are so many of our youth in particular resorting to criminal conduct in order to make a living. that's what we need to focus on,
give them hope and give them jobs, not give them despair and unemployment. >> when we talk about that gun rate in your state, that includes suicide. is that a number would you like to see come down? do you think that the access to handguns is cutting short the lives of folks who are taking their lives because the gun is there who otherwise might not? >> let me emphasize something. with every single provision in the bill of rights, there is a good side and a bad side. for example, the fourth fifth amendments tend to let criminals go free, people who otherwise would be convicted, butt for the loss of unlawful search and seizure. with respect to the fifth amendment, the right not to self-incriminate, which deals with confessions. as it s true with every amendment provision, every right in the bill of right is true with the second amendment. there are good sides and bad
sides. but the good side is we have been a free nation because the second amendment allows us to arm ourselves to ensure we never have a dictatorial government. >> do you think the reason we're a free government that, freedom relies ultimately on having guns to use violence against the government? >> that is certainly a factor. if you look at other countries throughout history who have suppressed the ability of the citizenry to own gun, think you see a higher incidence of governments eventually evolving into a dictatorship because the dictators in control do not have to worry about the citizenry seizing their rights back. so there are many factors in our history that protect our democracy, but i would submit the second amendment is a big one. >> what about saddam hussein's iraq, which had the second highest rate of personal gun ownership in the world, right with the u.s.? >> i'm sorry, i don't know enough about those circumstances to be able to talk about them. >> let me ask you about this then --
>> by way of example, i don't know if your premise is accurate or inaccurate. >> it is. in the case of oregon, we see some individuals using the second amendment in the way you described. they are armed, the fact they are armed is clearing changing the federal authorities and they have a cause. could you look to oregon and you say this is the kind of thing i'm talking about when i think about the second amendment preserving american liberty? >> i would distinguish what's going on in oregon with the intent of the founding fathers in country. the intent of the founding fathers, i would submit to you what we have in washington d.c., while it may be a misguided government making unnecessary errors, not helping the american citizenry as much as we should, it's not a dictatorship, it just making bad public policy.
>> my final question to, my understanding is you have a concealed carry permit in alabama. should citizens and officers -- >> i'm also in favor of property owners. in more specific response, i do not want citizens coming into capital grounds into the gallery of the states capitol with gun, given that we already have security with capitol police who do an excellent job of security. >> okay, so you oppose it. >> the armed militants occupying the animal wildlife refuge could face federal charges. this community is a united
>> i'm asking as the sheriff of harney county that the people that are occupying our wildlife refuge go home, work your differences with whoever out through the appropriate channels and let us get back to our lives as we live them here. >> a group of militants have occupied buildings on a wildlife preserve. the same county sheriff you just heard from told msnbc news they that the fbi has assured me that those will at some point face charges. an arizona rancher said he would
rather die for the cause than being arrested in jail. he broke free from the group hold up inside the federal building to sit outside on a chair in a blue tarp with only a pistol. he did that so it would be easier for officers to find him should they serve an arrest warrant. >> i have been raised in the country all my life. i love dearly to feel the sunrise on my face, i have no intense of spending any of my days in a concrete box. >> but no arrest warrant came, which has prompted the group to reassess the supplies in the bird sanctuary headquarters. they sent out a request for
saying until the full alabama supreme court rules on the effect. u.s. supreme court ruling on its states' same-sex marriage ban, alabama probate judge, the people who issue the licenses in alabama county have a ministerial duty not to issue any licenses contrary to the alabama sanctity of marriage amendment or the alabama marriage protection act. in october the 11th circuit court of appeals said the u.s. supreme court's ruling on gay marriage nullified the earlier decision of the alabama supreme court, which it upheld the same-sex marriage ban. the main thing moore accomplished is to create confusion for judges who could be held in contempt by a federal judge if they refuse to issue licenses to same-sex couple. joining me now, alabama state representative patricia todd.
maybe i'm naive. i thought we settled this. we had you on the program several months ago, this little dead end of rebellion. that seemed to be stamped out. where'd we come from? >> alabama's a little -- i'm not sure why he decided to issue this order today. he's wrong. my response is get over it, you lost. you need to go back and do your jobs. >> am i right that this essentially came out of nowhere? >> exactly. i'm not sure what prompted him to do this today. i guess maybe he needs to raise more money for his foundation to pay his family members. i don't know. but we were all sort of shocked that he issued this order today. >> now in the intermittent period of time, my understanding is people in alabama have been getting married, straight people, gay people have been getting married, the state is
still there, it has not been hit by any kind of wrath, has not descended into gamora. how is life constitutionally protected? >> it's been business as usual. most judges have gone along with the property decision. we've had a handful that have decided not to issue any marriage license, which is more of an inconvenience to straight couples than gay couples and they're losing revenue. justice moore issued a memo saying he didn't have enough money to run a state court system yet he's encouraging them not to do their jobs, which means they'll lose revenue. i'm not sure what prompted him to doing this but he's wrong, he's going to lose. probate judges said, as some did today, say they're not going to issue any more licenses because they're confused, i don't know how you can be confused by, this they'll be held in contempt of court.
>> in defense of the citizens of alabama, this was not precipitated by some groundswell of activism or outcry by the public of alabama, right? >> no. >> it seems to me it's not been a huge issue in alabama. am i right about that? >> you're exactly right. there has not been a groundswell of opposition. most probate judges have fallen into line, many more have issued licenses and the world hasn't come to an end. we're all sort of perplexed but it's roy moore so we're all prepared for anything when he's in charge. >> patricia todd, thank you. it's a pleasure. >> bernie sanders picks a subsidy policy fight when w his pledge to break up big banks in his first year in office.
the case surrounding the case of sandra bland who was found hanged in her jail cell just took an unexpected turn. today the grand jury indicted the state trooper who arrested bland on -- they indicted him on a perjury charge saying he lied about why he removed bland from her vehicle. the misdemeanor perjury charge carries the possibility of a year in prison and a $4,000 fine. this is the same grand jury which two weeks ago declined to indict anyone from the jail or sheriff's office in connection with bland's death. following today's indictment, the texas department of public safety announced it would begin termination proceedings for the officer. the lawyers asked why the trooper was not charged with assault and battery. >> for failure to signal.
with just 26 days to go before the iowa caucus, bernie sanders is not letting up on hillary clinton, picking a fight with her on an issue of wall street regulation. he announced he would break up the big banks within the first year of his presidency. today sanders was back at it saying he did not trust the former secretary of state to take on wall street. >> do i think hillary clinton or many other senators have shown the courage that is necessary to stand up to the wall street power? the answer is no. and the reason i'm running for president, as you know, i've known hillary for 25 years, we're friends, but i think in this critical moment in american history when you have a wall street situation, when you have an american middle class, when you have massive levels of income and wealth inequality, we have a president who has the courage to stand up to the billionaire class and wall street. >> does hillary clinton have the
courage to -- >> i'm running for president because i think not. >> they touted her credentials saying her banking policies were tougher than sanders'. >> with respect to my opponent, who is a friend of mine, i think i have a broader, more comprehensive set of policies about everything, including taking on wall street. you know, i think bernie's giving a speech today in new york about what he wants to do to shut down the big banks in a week. everybody who has looked at my propose as say mine are tougher, more effective and more comprehensive. >> everybody -- i don't know if that's true. sanders, who focused his new york media swing on his wall street plan also stopped by the nightly show where he was asked about his choice for vice president if elected. >> a lot of people would like you to join up with a woman whose name rhymes with elizabeth schmoren.
>> i've known elizabeth warren for a long time. she stands up for the people. she and i will work together. >> she did give a statement saying i'm glad bernie sanders is out there fighting to hole big banks accountable, make our economy safer. >> what happened in between those tweets? what kind of phone calls happened, you think? but whose plan is best? former congressman barney frank of dodd-frank rises to clinton's defense next.
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for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card joining me now, barney frank, former democratic congressman from massachusetts, cnbc contributor and hillary clinton campaign surrogate. mr. frank, let's start with this central idea of breaking up the big banks, the systematically important institution, the too big to fail banks, good idea, bad idea? a lot of people like the sound of it. >> oh, i think it should be broken up to some extent and specifics. they're not all the same. here's my biggest problem with bernie sanders's approach. there are two. size alone is not the issue. smaller institutions can be irresponsible. countrywide did all these bad mortgages. if we had had glass-steagall, it
would not have prevented the abuses of the crisis. it would have done nothing to have stopped the derivative regulation. but here's the problem. he does not say how small the institutions have to be. lehman brothers -- the failure lehman brothers, again not a bank, not affected by glass stegall. they went under. they were very small. if you're telling me with cannot have any financial institution in america that if it totally failed it, could cause stress, i guess nobody could be as big as lehman brothers. you're talking about taking not just the top five or six banks but many more and breaking them into two, three and five or six pieces. i think frankly senator sanders is not coming out with what is important.
how big is too big? nobody likes excessive big. the other issue is and hillary clinton is quite right, working with some very thoughtful people, like gary gaessler, who is the best regulator, a lobbyist for tough reform at the commodities futures trading division, you've got to get specific. and you do have the non-bank, the shadow banks and simply breaking up morgan stanley or the bank of america isn't going to do anything, literally not anything to restrain shadow banking, which is why secretary clinton is very specific about what to do about it. >> let me ask you this. part of the context of that wall street speech yesterday is the idea that dodd-frank, which bears your name, while something that bernie sanders voted for and supports, didn't go far enough and that in the system now there remains the potential for cataclysm crisis, the banks have too much power. do you have think the banks still have too much power post
dodd-frank? >> in some ways yes but the question is not whether you should do more but how you do it. i was very pleased that senator sands are who voted for the bill noted that -- one of the things he said he was going to do was use some of the powers we put into the bill for the regulator. we have the volcker rule. so i think that as of today, yeah, they are still more powerful than they should be. in terms of bailouts, we made them illegal. the big bailout was of a.i.g. the bill that passed outlawed that. nobody could now do what was done before. if one of these big institutions and this is critical, if one of the big institutions can't pay its debts and is put out of business, sarah palin was half right, which is better than her usual average, but this were for big banks, not old ladies.
if a big bank can't pay its debts and put out of business and other big financial institutions are assessed to pay those debts to avoid harm to the taxpayer. >> barney frank, thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. >> alexis, i've heard from a lot of folks in different parts of the state, the obsession with size, that breaking up the big banks sounds great because people don't like the big banks. that misses the point, it's essentially a distraction. what do you say to that? >> i say that's just not true. we have federal reserve chair jan -- janet yellen say there are mega banks look jpmorgan that are so big they could not be safely unwound or pushed back without harming the economy.
lehman brothers did not cause the crisis. lehman brothers exposed the crisis. all of the mega banks who were a byproduct of the repeal of glass-steagall, separating casino style banking from the more boring banking, they had the same garbage subprime mortgages that lee man brothers what. lee man brother was just a canary in a coal mine, posing the problems in the rest of the bank. we had supreme court justices say things like concentrated economic power leads to concentrated political power. any time you have all that money swirling around in washington, d.c., they own the show. we see wall street lobbying at levels we haven't seen since the financial crisis. >> this is something i asked senator sanders yesterday. how do you do it? there's no magic wand to wave. if the banks are as powerful as senator sanders contends, the
idea of breaking them up might sound good on paper but what's the actual pathway forward? how do you go about this project? >> i think you need an all of the above approach to backing up the banks. you use the law that bears barney frank's law, you pass new legislation like the 21st century glass stegall act, senator warren is on it and senator mccain is on it and you have to build the grass roots. you can't just do one thing. >> what about this idea that -- how big is the difference in your mind between what's being proposed? i thought gary gensler was was one of the best regulators.
>> for a bank dork like me, it thrills me to hear these debates about who has the tougher plan on wall street. i will say it's important that we not say that glass-steagall want an important piece of financial reform. we had decades upon decades of stability. dodd-frank has a lot of things it tells regulators to do. volcker put out something about the barney frank rule. it's a matter of political will. i advocate for all of the above approach. new legislation, following the law and grass roots movements. >> we will be at the vermont pub and brewery in the midst of the
madness tomorrow. rachel maddow starts right now . >> i have i some late-breaking news. i know you listen to the top of the show anyway but in this case it may affect your travel plans. >> i will be watching. >> thanks to you at home for joining us. today is an auspicious day in american politics. the election of 2016 is officially under way. as of today, south carolina has started sending out its ballots. they started sending out today their ballots to military personnel and south carolina residence who are overseas. so those folks with start voting now in the south carolina primary. it's on! voters have started the process of picking the presidential nominees for the presidential