tv MSNBC Live With Kate Snow MSNBC January 11, 2016 12:00pm-2:01pm PST
stage. let's start with the early state polls. the latest polls showing donald trump with a wide lead in new hampshire and closing with ted cruz in iowa. trump campaigned in new hampshire where he kept pressing the issue of whether ted cruz is a natural-born citizen eligible to be president. >> in the case of ted, he has to figure it out. now, i think he can go in for some kind of a judiciary proceeding. yes, look. doesn't matter. you can't have a nominee who's subject to being thrown out as a nominee. you just can't do it. so you're going to make a decision, folks. it is a little decision. i'm sure ted is thrilled i'm helping him out but i am. i am! >> thrilled. cruz holding an event in louisiana. keeping a close eye on that. louisiana votes on march 5th. campaigning today in iowa where polls show a very tight race
with hillary clinton, bernie sanders went after donald trump. >> now, for a number of years donald trump was a leader in the so-called birther movement. i would hope in the year 2016 we would have put behind us bigotry and racism but that's not what i'm seeing today. >> joining me now, nbc's hallie jackson from the d.c. newsroom. good to see you. so one poll out of iowa today, the quinnipiac, shows trump actually in the lead. 31% to 29%. >> yeah. >> right? so iowa not a foregone conclusion is the headline out of all of these polls. >> and the other headline, kate, sort of trump and cruz and then everybody else. note, though, that ted cruz is still within the margin of error in the latest poll coming out of iowa. cruz was ahead of trump by again the margin of error and the poll
that came out over the weekend but this is something where the two of them neck and neck. you heard trump say recently in a rally, hey, we got to win iowa. for ted cruz even though they're down playing iowa as a must win, it is many believe in order to carry ted cruz into places like south carolina and into the scc primary states in march to try to get delegates there, kate. >> we heard trump say he's doing cruz a favor bringing up the birther line. the republican governor of iowa said that the issue was fair game, as well. what is cruz campaign saying to you? >> you know, at this point, i think the ted cruz strategy is going to be what we have seen over last maybe five or six days or so when asked about it, he addresses it. he thinks it's settled, legal matter. ted cruz over the weekend released the mother's birth certificate, born in delaware in the '30s and released to
breitbart and not something that ted cruz necessarily wants to be bringing up or necessarily talking about. i don't get the sense there's a ton of concern that this will gain traction. then again, donald trump hitting it up at rallies, could change the game. that's new. donald trump hadn't brought it up bidden but he did the last couple of days. >> rubio, he delivered a speech this morning in florida. took some shots at both cruz and governor christie, as well, onp? >> yeah. he talked about the value added tax and some in this race and ted cruz framed as a business flat tax and internet sales tax which is something that the -- that governor christie, for example, talked about. you're seeing marco rubio sort of come out strongly. he wants to be in a position where he can at least place, i
believe, a strong third in iowa and carry momentum into new hampshire and right now when you look at the polling numbers, kate, he is there in the top tier, the top mix and not picked up traction at least not at this point. yes, there are still three weeks to go and seems like forever but at the same time, kate, it is kind of around the corner and be here before you know it. rubio releasing a list of leadership in all 50 states in the u.s. >> so he's got offices everywhere what he's trying to show. >> leaders everywhere, kate. >> hallie, thank you so much. did she say three weeks? three weeks to go until the first nominating contest. we have three race that is are so tight they fall within that statistical margin of error. and it is a very tight race as we have said on the democratic side in both iowa and in new hampshire. joining me now to break down the numbers, nbc news senior political editor mark murray. mark, let's start with the democrats. how worried should hillary
clinton be about the numbers between her and sanders? >> she should be really worried, particularly if the iowa numbers hold true, kate. hillary clinton with a 3-point lead of likely voters in iowa. first contest is three beaks from now. you have here at 48%. bernie sanders at 45%. martin o'malley at 5%. the perception is that hillary clinton going to be and still may be the strongest democrat in the iowa contest. bernie sanders, of course, has an advantage in new hampshire. in our poll, bernie sanders with a 4-point ad also within the margin of error in the granite state but certainly the outcome to really start having democrats biting fingernails, not being happy would be bernie sanders winning iowa and new hampshire. hillary clinton shut out of the states and does have a buffer and fire walls in south carolina and other states with more diverse voters but this would not be good news. all that said, kate, maybe there
is a silver lining for hillary clinton with the iowa poll. it does lower the expectations game if all of a sudden hillary clinton ends up winning iowa. five points, eight points, ten points. that seems like a much bigger victory before this poll. >> right. let's talk about the republicans. key takeaway for the republicans from this round of polls? >> you know, you were just talking about it. i think there are two fascinating stories. ted cruz and donald trump battling one-two, two-one in the polls we have seen in iowa. also a little bit in new hampshire. and then the other big contest has to do with the republican establishment folks battling it out for second or third place in new hampshire. in our own poll, you end up having marco rubio, chris christie, john kasich, jeb bush, at a combined 44%. that is 14 points higher than donald trump's 30% but of course you have the four republicans dividing it 44%. and that shows you why 30% could be a winning number for donald
trump. >> one last thing about the numbers. sanders outperforming clinton in head to head matchups with trump and in iowa and new hampshire. iowa clinton leads by 8 and then trump by 1 and sanders beats him by 19 points. when's behind the numbers, mark? >> performance of independent voters. sanders doing better with independents than hillary clinton is. sanders trumpeting the electability numbers after the poll came out they sent out a press release noting that, trying to have it into the quiver of arguments. but, kate, it is worth noting that general election polling particularly 300 days before december day 2016, you should be able to take wit a little bit of grain of salt and not ironclad 300 day it s the number is out.
technically 299. we are on the cusp. trying to do the math earlier, kate. bottom line, still a long ways away from november 2016. >> i was thinking this's closer than i thought. mark murray, thanks so much. for analysis of both democrat and republican races, let's turn to senior editor beth fooey with us. let's talk about the attention on the democratic race, right? how close it is. hillary says she's the most electab electable. bernie sanders pointing to the head to head polls and saying when he can take on donald trump. here's what donald trump had to say today. >> oh, i love to run against bernie. i would love, please, fbi, please, go after hillary. i want to run against bernie. . oh, that's a dream come true. this guy. he would make some president. i want to run against bernie. that's my dream. that's my dream. that's the one. that's the one i really want.
>> i think we get the point. he wants to run against bernie. he would go after him probably as a socialist. >> yeah. hillary clinton is not doing right now. they have polled that. it's not an effective argument who they're not offended by the term or know sanders well enough or know him that that's a label that doesn't make a difference and general election, very different situation. different bunch of voters. you better believe that donald trump would have none with that. >> if hillary clinton were to lose iowa and new hampshire, what everybody's talking about, does vef tshe have the firewall the south? >> she might. she might. i think it would be a total disaster for the campaign. she lost so badly '08 in iowa. humiliating. and then new hampshire brought her back and then that set the stage for the whole rest of the race. you covered her then. you remember that -- >> until june. >> right, exactly. so did i. new hampshire saved her. the idea to lose iowa again, a
humiliation then and more so this time a second time. with an opponent who nobody thinks is as deeply lly organi there in iowa than barack obama was. >> yesterday donald trump talked about attacking bill clinton said he'll continue to make those attacks if hillary continues to bring up the sexism charge. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> this is sort of public threat. >> i don't want to say it's a threat. it is a threat. >> it is a threat? >> yeah. i can call it a nicer name. she was saying he has tendencies towards being sexist. >> you? >> talking about me. i said, wait a minute. she's married to an abuser. claimed rape. all sorts of things. horrible things. >> is the clinton campaign concerned or feel like people judged bill clinton in the past, democratic voters over that, they know who he is, this isn't
going to stick? >> i think they do believe that, it is in the past and most people who know bill clinton went through that whole experience, you know, they have made their decision. he is not on the ballot this time. she is. but this is hitting the sensitive nerve, an issue she would rather not address and sure. they're not happy with the line of attack at all. >> there's a politico piece that talks about him damaging his brand and they're talking about places like trump towers where people, you know, people live in apartments there and now want his name taken off the marquis and not trump fans. is he damaging his overall brand? >> remember way back when in the summer when he first got into the race and he made those comments about mexicans being rapists and murderers and so on and a whole bunch of folks quickly left. they got -- >> including this network. >> sort of. we brought it back for "saturday night live." but macy's, they didn't want to
associate with him anymore and people said the campaign ended before it started. he's never wavered. many, many brands already distanced themselves from him. if he's president, he probably won't care. that's probably what he figures at this point. >> great to talk with you. after several reports of nbc news, a convoy of aid trucks finally arrived at three besieged syrian towns today where people are dying of starvati starvation. american family trapped among the civil war. we'll speak to a relative of the family in the states. is always blue. and the kids always eat their vegetables. because the salad there is always served with the original hidden valley ranch. her long day as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks.
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the town is controlled by rebels. but it's encircled of roadblocks by pro-government forces including the iranian-backed hezbollah. at least 31 people died since the siege began, many from protein deficiency or malnutriti malnutrition. this sounds like a bit of good news finally. >> reporter: it is good news for the people of madaya and like delivering meals or meals to a prison. the people of madaya encycled and hezbollah forces around them. they can't leave the town. they can't go out to collect firewood, to try to find food. hezbollah checkpoints, snipers, land mines around the town. so they're completely cut off.
but, yes, the good news, 44 trucks carrying blankets, medical supplies and aid and food aid have begun to arrive. i spoke to a member who's on the aid convoy from the icrc, the red cross, talked about people greeting the convoy with cheers, smiles. one young girl comes up to him and asking if, in fact, they brought food because she was hungry. some of the most severe cases of malnutrition, those people aren't coming out on to the streets he said. they're too weak to even walk. but it is not just the town of madaya surrounded by forces which are loyal to the regime of bashar al ashad. two other towns to the north facing a similar fate and food also delivered today. 21 trucks to those towns and there it's the opposite
scenario. people inside the town considered to be pro-regime who are being besieged, cut off, trapped, imprisoned by the rebels so it is a very brutal tactic. where the opposing sides effectively taking entire villages that oppose them hostage and starving them. >> and the pictures have been just absolutely horrific. richard engel, thank you for the update. appreciate it. for more on all of, this i'm joined by a syrian american activist, he was born and raised in madaya. his mother, grandmother and many members of the family still live there and six of the family members are american citizens. it is nice to have you with us. thank you for coming in. >> thank you. >> we were talking about the area you grew up in, this part of syria. i think most americans don't know much about it. describe it for me. you were there. you have some pictures here from 2011 when you last visited. >> it is a small mountainous town about 35 miles away from
damascus to the western side. very scenery, beautiful views and beautiful atmosphere. it is a resort destination town. it's known for its apple, peaches and, you know -- >> orchards. vineyards, right? ho historical historically. >> used to be a vineyard town, yes. >> your mother, grandmother still there? >> yeah. >> when did you last talk to your mom? >> about a week ago i was able to talk to her. and, you know, my rest of the family members, as well. >> how's your mother doing? what is she eating? >> like the rest of the town. living off of food rations which means a piece of biscuit every other day or -- >> a piece of biscuit? >> yeah. a little piece of biscuit like this. sometimes more or every three days or four days even. i have seen people literally going for seven days without
food and then dying right before the eyes of their families. >> we are looking at these horrific pictures. we have been reporting on this on nbc news since last week. but this is going on for months. >> this is going on since june. the middle of june. but the last two, two and a half month has been really, really tight. nothing has been going in. no one's allowed to leave and basically a starvation camp run by hezbollah and the iranian supporters of hezbollah. >> your great grandfather was a u.s. citizen and fought for the americans in world war i and because of him some of your family caught on being american citizens. you live in allentown, pennsylvania. you have a cousin who used to live a distant cousin who lived in allentown. moved back over there about eight years ago to syria. to run an apple orchard, to sell apples and have an apple export
business. and they're now trapped and american citizens, right? >> that's correct, yep. that's quite right. they've been trapped for just like the rest of the town since june like i said. and they -- as far as i know they made a lot of requests to the u.s. embassy in beirut and i have seen some of the replies. just quite shameful. >> what did the state department reply? >> i don't know. but i saw the reply by the embassy by the staff at the embassy and it was just very indifferent and i'm just ashamed that american citizen is left to die of starvation, left to see his own children die before his own eyes and his own government doesn't come to his assistance. >> let's show you what the state department said to nbc news. we contacted them about your family's struggle and they said
we do not comment on citizenship claims, meaning they won't talk about a specific case, through our czech protecting power, we are making every effort to assist u.s. citizens who are trying to leave the syria. does that ring true to you? does that sound right doing everything they can? >> no. that's just i think just trying to find excuse and they were made aware of their presence at least in october. maybe even before then. and they could have done much, much more than an actual -- than just a mere reply by e-mail saying, you know, find some other means of assistance. sorry we can't help you. this is unacceptable. it's -- any respectable government, any respectable country, that's -- that has its
own citizen entrapped and blockaded like this should do a lot more. i'm sorry that the current administration isn't doing much about this case. >> you must be happy to hear that some aid is finally getting there. we have video showing red cross shipments going in there. >> probably going to stop the death and starvation of people but that's not going to solve the case because the town is still entrapped. it is still besieged. that food probably runs two or three weeks at the most and back to square one. we are -- his bella is using food as a weapon. >> you're telling me that your family's making soup out of grass. >> true. >> to eat. >> that's true. very difficult to hear even. >> it is. >> and i was -- i was able to see it with my own family and just horrendous. >> hussein, thank you for sharing your story. >> thank you. >> appreciate you being here. coming up, president obama's final state of the union address
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and now there's even more to savor with family size pot pies. at this hour, we are monitoring developments inside a courtroom in tarrant county, texas, where tonya couch, the mother of the so-called affluenza teen in court right now trying to get her bail reduced. couch's attorneys arguing that couch doesn't have the money to post the million-dollar bond. she is charged with hindering the apprehension of a felon. her son captured in mexico last month after vanishing in his probation period for a 2013 drunk driving accident that killed four people. and we'll bring you any new information as it becomes available. tomorrow night, president obama will deliver his final state of the union address at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. the white house promising a speech unlike what we have heard before. let's turn to nbc news senior
white house correspondent chris jansing. chris, how's it going to be different? >> reporter: it sets a high bar, right? usually, kate, these are an opportunity for presidents to late out here's what i'm going to do legislateively and push for in the next year. that is not going to be this. the president did as they always do, ask a senior staff for recommendations. they laid him out for that. nothing for him rose to the level that he was going to make it the centerpiece of the speech and also about the political reality. this is a president in the last year of his presidency. a lot of the focus has turned to the 2016 candidates and he doesn't have a high personal popularity rating so instead, well, let him tell you exactly what he wants to do with this state of the union from a video posted by the white house. >> that's what makes america great. our capacity to change for the better. our ability to come together as one american family and pull
ourselves closer to the america we believe in. it's hard to see sometimes in the day-to-day noise of washington but it is who we are. and it is what i want to focus on in this state of the union address. not just the remarkable progress we have made, not just what i want to get done in the year ahead, but what we all need to do together in the years to come. >> reporter: so instead of the specific legislative priorities, big picture, it's a victory lap. the white house thinks they have some things to brag about including the economy, comeback of the car industry, the opening with cuba. you might also hear about some of the things that he feels are important like the minimum wage, a tax reform and infrastructure. two things potentially that they could work together with republicans on. you're also going to see very special guests who will be in the box of the first ladies and others and an empty seat in memory of the victims of gun violence. white house officials deny this
is a political speech and no doubt that by laying out the broad agenda the president is sort of laying the groundwork for 2016. making the argument here's what we stand for and to continue you need to elect a democrat in 2016 without exactly saying those words. how long will it be? well, that remains an open question. the president did work on it except for a round of golf pretty intensively over the weekend and again today. just for a little historical perspective, the longest state of the union ever, bill clinton's last speech, just about an hour and a half. the shortest -- from richard nixon, less than half an hour. this will probably end up between there, kit. >> yeah. i'm guessing he's a little longer than richard nixon. this is a president who talks. >> reporter: toward the bill clinton side, for sure. >> thanks so much. we have new video of the raid showing the moments leading up to the capture of el chapo in mexico. plus, from hollywood to
mexico city we're covering the fallout of sean penn's interview with the drug lord. to get where i am. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain.
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at business.ny.gov back now with developing news out of the mexico where the mexican government has begun the process of extraditing notorious drug lord joaquin el chapo guzman to the united states. we have new video of the mexican marines looking to have been shot with body cameras and shows the raid on the house where el chapo hiding out and led to the shootout and the capture early friday morning. let's start at the maximum security prison where el chapo is now being held, that's the same prison he escaped from back in july. and nbc's jacob rascon is there for us. what do we know about extradition? >> reporter: we know that it started and remarkable that it started period because back in 2014 when he got here and the u.s. asking about extradition,
mexico essentially said, no way. they joked that, yes, you can have him after three or 400 years so it's an about-face that mexico now saying, okay. we're ready for extradition and really we think because of that escape last year, a national embarrassment. this is the most secure prison in mexico. this prison behind me. in fact, this is his third time, el chapo, third time being here. in 1993, after his initial arrest, he was brought here and then transferred to a different prison where he had an elaborate escape in 2001. and then he was on the run for 13 years before being captured. that second time brought here and then escaped and now he's being brought back and we hear from security experts there are some changes to the building since his escape. changes inside. we think having to do with the groundwork. of course, to try to prevent
anything else dealing with tunnels and elaborate escapes but el chapo we know inside with about 1,000 other inmates. again, this is mexico's top maximum security facility. he's on 24-hour surveillance. but this was the case last time. this was still last time mexico's top prison. and so mexico is now saying we are ready for extradition. we are told it will take about a year at the quickest but likely much longer because of the options that el chapo's defense has and so we may be looking at years where el chapo could be waiting here to be extradited to the united states. kate? >> all right. jacob outside that prison, thank you. mexican authorities are looking the speak with actor sean penn after that "rolling stone" magazine interrue with penn published over the weekend that penn conducted with guzman hiding out. following his july prison escape. according to officials, investigators were able to hone in on el chapo's whereabouts
after intercepting phone conversations between the drug lord and sean penn and also a mexican star kate del castillo. the ap saying penn told them, quote, he has nothing to hide. for more on this, i want to bring in tony dokoupil, author of "the last pirate." tony, great to see you. >> great to see you. >> so here, i don't know where to start. there are so many people talking about the intersection between hollywood and drugs and drug kingpins. there's sort of a fascination there. >> extensive. this is not the first time that our culture has taken a drug kingpin and not treated him like a criminal. right? we -- it's like what he's doing is somehow noble and you have sean penn in a very long article talking about chapo being the peasant son, the orange seller, pushing himself out of poverty, selling the product
wants and like it wipes away the killing and we have a full screen of the quote where penn writes, unlike many of the counterparts who engage in kidnapping and murder, he is a businessman first and only resorts to violence when he deems it advantageous. really? no gratuitous violence. little bit is okay. >> how many murders is he accused in again? >> 100,000 deaths by some estimates in mexico because of the drug wars there and el chapo is the chief of the biggest cartel there. bragging in the article to that effect. he knows what he is doing here. he has a great model in pablo escobar in the 1980s. deliverer of kosta koufcocaine united states. tried to overthrow the government. >> a cult hero. >> huge. >> t-shirts. >> now a tourist attraction. right? his brother signs merchandise. buy key chains.
his sister puts white gravestst over the grave. it's americans, not colombians. we americans kind of like our drug dealers in a funny way and despite the politicians say. >> at the center is this mexican actress, kate del castillo. working for our sister network. according to penn she played a role in arranging the secret meeting and tweeted out a supportive message about el chapo to el chapo. she wrote, wouldn't it be cool that you started trafficking with love? with cures for diseaseses, with food for the homeless children. imagine trafficking with corrupt politicians instead of women and children who end up as women. the only thing that changes is the merchandise. don't you agree? that's in january of 2012. that's a sentiment that while so many people vilify this man,
that's a sentiment that exists, as well. >> right. so part of the outrage over the article and el chapo in general killed so many people and in some quarters of mexico considered a hero providing services that the state can't provide and very poor areas and he has vast influence. if somebody is sick, he'll send a plane. a new house, he'll build it. escobar did the same thing. there's a clear pattern here. you can do a lot of bad, create destruction and then using it for a good person, you are a robin hood figure and hollywood loves you and america and these videos part of a tourist attraction in 20 years. >> tony, thank you. >> thank you. an investigator spent years investing the drug cartel and she said risking her life yoo. s the u.s. push for extradition. could he be here in new york city? then, woosh, it's gone. i swear i saw it swallow seven people. seven.
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lives on the line to get that story. annabelle annaduz covered them for her book "narco land." after death threats, she said she was forced into hiding. she joins us now and now in a friendship program at uc berkeley in california and critical i know already of sean penn's interview with el chapo. why? >> yes. well, first i wish to say that we should talk about this in -- and put this -- this story in a proper dimension. of course, it's very controversial, this meeting between sean penn and del castillo with el chapo and not champagne or the people that was protecting el chapo and not a cause of the escape and they are not the cause because he was
hiding. i mean, let's put this clear. and second, the second thing that i wish to set that it's very shocking read this written by sean penn. of course he is not a journalist. this is a -- written by one almost a fan of el chapo guzman. sean penn looks very, very shocking, very almost as a fan of el chapo guzman. for me, it's really difficult to read these paragraphs. >> the article in "rolling stone." >> trying to describe to el chapo as someone he is not. el chapo is not charming. el chapo is a criminal. el chapo and the sinaloa cartel are responsible of thousands of death of innocents in mexico and
it's important that the society understand this. >> sean penn would argue that he was being a journal nis this context. he has done other things in the past as a journalist. he sat down with venezuelan president chavez and cuban president castro in 2008. visited iraq and iranality one point and in a piece written about iran, he criticized more established journalists saying you begin to lose your clarity. focusing entirely on the power establishment and losing the important story of any land, its people. meanwhile, on the street interesting rumblings of people that dared to challenge the official version of the truth. i think he's saying he gets throughout and gets into the story, goes directly to the source. what would you say? >> no. i think he's wrong. i can't be investigating to el chapo guzman and sinaloa by 15 years and i think sean penn
didn't have enough context to really understand what was happening in that bizarre meeting and i think that's the first mistake. second, i think that when you are a journalist and you are trying to interview to this kind of people, of course you have to make interviews to this kind of people to understand the stories. i have been having meetings with this kind of people as el chapo by many years. but you don't drink the tequila and eat carna estada to establish a relationship of a source and a journalist. you don't drink tequila and eat with someone that you want to -- you want to interview but you know that this guy that you have in front is a murderer. you can't -- that is not journalist. i mean, for me it was that can be, some interesting parts for a
simple for me most of the most important things of article written by sean penn is how he describes how the military were protecting el chapo guzman. for example, i should -- i think if we really want to get inside the story, sean penn should describe how's the corruption in mexico, how's the corruption in u.s. and how these little man in many sense that is el chapo guzman is able to run this big business. he is not smart. he's a very simple man. he's a primitive man. yeah. i mean, i think he's almost illitera illiterate. the big question that's not here is how this guy is able to run this huge business. >> annabelle hernandez, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thanks to you. i want to bring in chief legal correspondent ari melber
lechlt's bring you back to the issue of jacob rascon outside the prison and says it takes a while and they believe the mexican officials saying they'll extradite el chapo to the united states. now, he faces indictments in multiple locations, right? >> that's right, kate. when this news broke friday afternoon, we were talking about where does this go? well, will mexico previously opposed extradition support it? now the mexican government's saying they're for it, this means it goes to the courts and could take a year or more and waiting for him here? show you the different places in arizona, faces racketeering, california conspiracy on cocaine. texas, two indictments including murder. illinois, drug trafficking. over in new york and brooklyn, a continued criminal enterprise by the way where now attorney general loretta lynch was the top federal prosecutor in brook len and eastern district and florida drug trafficking.
so you just had a reporter talking about the consequences of his crimes. well, in many parts of the united states, you have those violent crimes and that drug trade that drug trade creating enough evidence for the feds to already have probably cause, already have indictments against him. the question is, where would they start? >> all right, ari melber, thanks for that. >> sure. straight ahead, the death of a music legend. fans today mourning the loss of david bowie, just days after releasing his final album. ♪ ground control to major tom ♪ (flourish spray noise) ♪ ♪ (flourish spray noises) ♪ (school bell) ♪ ♪ (sigh) ♪ (flourish spray noise) ♪ share the joy of real cream...
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>> we're nodding along here on the set. back with a story that had a lot of us had a hard time with this morning. david bowie, legendary singer, songwriter, actor, passed away after an 18-month private battle with cancer. bowie was so much more than a musician. he was an artist. constantly reinventing himself from space odyssey major tom to the androgenous ziggy stardust. he turned 69 on friday and that same day the singer released his 25th album, "black star," an album that his producer called a parting gift. joining me, sirius host matt pinfield, who became friends with david bowie, spent time with him in the studio. we were saying in the commercial, this is a tough day. i was a huge bowie fan. >> so was i. >> when you think about what it was like to be in his presence, to be in the studio with him, what flashes to you?
>> for me, i was a huge fan from when i was 12 years old and heard "rebel rebel." i went back and got the other albums and followed him all the way through. he was always changing and challenging his audience, which i think is the thing that was so special with him. he would never rest on his achievements. he would go from diamond dogs and station to station and because he challenged you, you went with him or you didn't. you really were educated by has musical changes and the things that he did. >> favorite story? >> there's many. what's great, the first night that i met him, i was in the mtv music department, manager of music programming with ten people. they put together a dinner and because they knew i was a huge bowie fan, they put me right in front of david and iman and the rest of my bosses around me.
i was really quite nervous that evening. but we just started talking and eventually david realized, wow, this guy knows so much about the music. he said to me, no one knows yet, i'm going on tour with nine inch nails, i'd love your suggestion for songs i can do on tour. >> he asked you! wow. >> and i ran into him again. he asked me to go to dinner with him that night. i lost my apartment downtown in 9/11. i was staying in a relocation. he goes, what are you doing later? i was going to go back to my wife and kid. he goes, come have dinner with me. so i get in the back of a car with him. so we're in the back of this restaurant in little italy, telling our 9/11 stories. and bowie said, come to the studio later, i want to get your
opinion. >> he was so good about collaborating and teaching and helping other people along, including you. >> it really meant a lot to me. >> matt, so nice to have you with us. >> thanks so much for having me on. we'll miss him. >> yeah, we will. three weeks to iowa, switching gears, polls extremely tight, races for both republicans and democrats are tight. we'll head to des moines straight ahead. our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us.
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hi, everybody, i'm kate snow. we're three weeks until the iowa caucuses. new polls showing a tight race amongst democrats in iowa and new hampshire. donald trump said he'd rather face off against bernie sanders in a general election. and live this hour, ted cruz getting ready to hold a campaign rally in louisiana. but we begin this hour with the democrats. today all three democratic candidates are in iowa, ahead of tonight's so-called brown and black forum in des moines.
it comes as new polls show the race between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, within the margin of error in iowa and new hampshire. while bernie sanders held a rally in the capital, hillary clinton rolled out a new tax policy calling for a fair share surcharge on americans making more than $5 million a year. >> i want to go further and impose what i call a fair share surcharge on multi millionaires because right now we're behind and we need to get the wealthy and the corporations to pay more of their fair share, so i can keep my promise which is, i will not raise taxes on the middle class. >> nbc's kristin welker joins me now from the site of tonight's forum in des moines. we're seeing clinton hit sanders a lot harder. what's going on? >> oh, we absolutely are, kate. and it goes back to the polls
that you were talking about, the fact that they're a lot tighter than originally anticipated in new hampshire and in iowa. new hampshire, not as much of a surprise. sanders has had the lead there for quite some time. 50-46. but look at what happens in iowa. clinton still leads sanders, but 48-45, only by three points. now, clinton campaign officials have been saying for months they expect these polls to get tighter as we get closer to the caucuses and that is what's happening. but still, kate, within the clinton campaign, these polls are a little bit too close for comfort. they say they have a really strong ground game, we have folks who are going to be getting people out on caucus night, with two or three elections under their belt. they still feel like they can pull out a victory. she could still pull out a win if she loses both states, but it would be really difficult to
explain a loss in two states. she came in third here in 2008 and doesn't want to repeat that. >> and clinton today, we just played that sound of her talking about the fair share sur clarch on people who make a lot of money, more than $5 million a year, but she also talked about health care. >> she did. we are seeing a shift in strategy. a few weeks ago, secretary clinton focusing her sharpest attacks for the republicans. that has changed in recent days as these polls have gotten tighter. today she took aim at bernie sanders over his health care plan. take a listen to what she had to say. >> i just have a difference with senator sanders. he has a different plan. his plan would take medicare and medicaid and the children's health insurance program, he would take that and he would take it all together and send health insurance to the states. i sure don't want to turn over
health care to republican governors, for heaven sakes. i don't think that's a good deal for america. i think it's a risky deal. and it could hurt more than help a lot of families. >> reporter: now the sanders campaign taking issue with that characterization. they say it's an oversimplification of bernie sanders health care plan, that his plan wouldn't necessarily put medicare and medicaid in the hands of governors. still, kate, bottom line, we are seeing the lines of attack really sharpen between these two candidates. and it's a preview of things to come. not only here tonight at the brown and black forum, but in the coming days in these key battleground states. kate? >> all right, kristin welker out in iowa, thank you. clinton also said while she respects her primary opponents, she wants voters ton when it comes to substantive policy issues, she is the stronger candidate. >> i have two very worthy opponents. people that i've known, people
that i've served with, people that i respect. and i'm asking you to choose to caucus for me over either of the other two. and part of the reason i'm asking you to do that is because we do have differences. nothing like between us and the republicans. heavens. nothing like that. but i want you to know that these substantive differences are important. >> joining me now, national political director for hillary for america, amanda rentoryia. so talk to me about the differences between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, if you're taking ma cathat case. the polls have to be concerning. >> we've always said from the beginning, we knew things were going to tighten and they certainly are. the other thing that you're seeing, it's time for voters, for folks out there, to know there's a difference between
senator sanders and secretary clinton when it comes to things like, for instance, most recently, she's been talking about guns and the fact that her and president obama voted against giving immunity to gun owners and senator sanders was on the other side. so i think these are really important issues that as we go into the final days, that voters know there's a difference here. >> she was expected to be the juggernaut, though, she was supposed to walk away from this whole thing. i feel like it's 2008 all over again. instead, she's in a super tight race in both iowa and new hampshire. why should democrats believe she's going to be a better general election candidate if she can't beat bernie sanders? >> again, this is the presidency of the united states. i think everyone and we have said from the very beginning, we knew how important this was gonna be in that the race was never going to be a cakewalk, and that's why we built a very strong ground game here in iowa. i'm here now and up late last
night, hearing about door knocks in the cold of the night. we're still making connections and that's what's going on here. you heard her say this, we have to earn every single vote and that's what we've been doing from the beginning. this isn't a surprise to us on the campaign, if anything, this is exactly as planned and what we know we need to do. so you'll continue to see us on doors, out there, and we know it goes to the very end and we've got to make sure we're fighting and earning every single vote. >> let me ask you one more about bernie sanders and a tough shot he took on friday in iowa. listen to this piece of tape. >> what bill clinton did, i think we can all acknowledge was totally, totally, totally disgraceful and unacceptable. but i am running against hillary clinton, i'm not running against bill clinton. >> totally, totally, totally disgraceful and unacceptable. are you surprised that a fellow democrat would come at you so strongly? >> you know, it's disappointing,
but at the end of the day, this is about the issues that people want to hear about. they want to know in their lives what are we going to do, what is secretary clinton going to do to help them raise wages, to make sure their kids can go to college. to make sure they can buy a house. as we look at this election, that's what we're focused us and we'll continue to be focused on. make sure people know she's fighting for families across this country and making sure that everyone can reach their god-given potential. that's our message we're going to keep no matter what comes at the secretary. if there's anything that's true, she doesn't give up, she keeps fighting and she knows how -- she's a tested candidate and knows how to do this. so we're really excited on the ground here to keep moving forward. >> amanda renteria, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you. turning to the republican field now, today donald trump held a rally in newark, where the latest poll shows him with a double-digit lead over ted cruz. trump again bringing up issues
surrounding cruz's canadian birth. he also went hard after jeb bush, saying it was time for the florida governor to quit the race. >> i mean, bush, what is bush doing? you see bush, $69 million. trump, like nothing. trump, 42, bush, like nothing. sometimes it's time for a guy like that to just go home, relax, take it easy, be with your family. he's got a nice family, be with your family and relax. >> joining me now from wyndham, new hampshire, nbc's katy tur. katy, how did things go up there today? >> we've relocated to manchester, new hampshire, but wyndham was a typical trump rally. not as many people as he usually has, though. it was a morning rally, so certainly a few less people than he has at the very large night rallies. but afterwards, he went for the first time to a diner here in new hampshire. he has not done it. the campaign had vowed to me
they would never go to a diner, that it wasn't worth his time, that he could fly in and get thousands of people at the night-time rallies, he doesn't need to make the pit stops that other candidates have to do. and they're only getting a few people at a time, while trump is getting thousands and thousands lining up to see him. but he did go to a diner today. he went for a couple of local interviews and a "wall street journal" interview. we happened to be there, actual. and we were able to throw a few questions at him. he mentioned that chris christie should probably be going back to new jersey. he doesn't think he should be in the race any longer. and he talked more about ted cruz. i asked him about the favorability ratings, how cruz is beating him, he did not like that question and refused to answer it. but certainly a jarring thing to see donald trump inside of a diner today. when i spoke with people there, they said they were excited to see him, but they did think it was very weird to see a billionaire in their little,
local, greasy spoon. >> well, i'm sure they were excited to see him. >> some of them were, yes. >> some of them, maybe not. katy tur, thanks so much. as we've been telling you today saw a flurry of new polls. i want to turn to steve kornacki to break it down. >> we have four new polls on the republican side. this one is from iowa, the headline here, donald trump back in the lead. the story for the last six weeks has been cruz overtaking trump in a lot of iowa polls, but this new one out just this afternoon from quinnipiac shows trump by only two points, but back ahead of ted cruz. obviously that's good news for donald trump. he's in second place in this other iowa poll, the nbc/maris poll, this is also probably good news for trump. why? because the story we thought we were looking at, we might be looking at was not just cruz taking the lead in iowa, but
cruz really consolidating the evangelical vote, running away, hiding, taking a double-digit lead. that's not happening. trump four points behind here, but very much in theics mix. as we get closer to the caucuses, only three weeks away, marco rubio, third place, 13%. but rubio is spending big money in iowa over the next three weeks on ads. he's also going to be aggressively there in person, doing campaign events. he said he might be living in iowa the next three weeks. can rubio get that number up? maybe not win or get second, but enough that it's an impressive performance. why? because eight days after iowa is new hampshire. and you look at the log jam here. we've been talking about this for a long time now. donald trump continues to lead. this is one of the new polls out of new hampshire. just this afternoon. more than 2-1 for trump. but there's a log jam. kasich, establishment candidate. rubio, establishment candidate.
christie, establishment candidate. combined they have much more than 32%, which trump has. combined they have enough to beat trump if all those votes could get behind one candidate. so how will they differentiate themselves? that's the idea for rubio. do well in iowa, get a lot of attention for doing well in iowa, then consolidate that vote, get the momentum in new hampshire, rise up, maybe challenge donald trump. the other number out of new hampshire, the nbc/maris poll, rubio sitting in second. but it's christie, it's bush, it's kasich. it's all the establishment candidates. if you add their support together right now in new hampshire, you get 44%. trump only at 30%, so that would be enough to knock off donald trump. again, kate, if they could consolidate it. that's the big if here. >> steve, thanks so much. this afternoon, bernie sanders campaigned in perry, iowa, where he described the evolution of his campaign, from humble beginnings to a fund-raising juggernaut that's
now tied with hillary clinton in the early states. >> when we began the campaign, we had no money in our organization, we had no organization, let alone to worry about money in the organization. we didn't have any organization. and outside of the state of vermont and maybe a few states in new england, very few people in america knew who i was. but we ran because we had a gut feeling that the american people were sick and tired of establishment politics and establishment economics. >> joining me now, the latino outreach director for the bernie sanders campaign. nice to see you. >> nice to see you. >> also out in iowa where everybody's going to be tonight. we just talked to a representative for the clinton campaign, and she was crowing about how organized they are, and how they're absolutely going to beat bernie sanders in iowa, no question about it. your response?
>> well, look, we have, by far, the biggest volunteer base. we've gotten over two million contributions, more than any other candidate in the history of american politics, and we have the momentum behind our back. we couldn't be more excited to be here in iowa to meet with latino, african american, communities of color to talk about the everyday issues that families are facing, that families are facing as a result of the wall street greed, as the result of a broken immigration system and the disproportionate impact this is having in communities of color. and we're talking about the issues and the agenda that bernie sanders is advancing that's going to directly address the issues impacting communities of color, but really all americans across this country. so we're very excited not only about the agenda and the message, but the momentum that we're carrying in this campaign. >> if you look at communities of color nationwide and you look at the polling, i'm sure you would agree that hillary clinton polls very well, particularly among latinos, among black voters.
how do you attract people to bernie sanders if she's got so much strength? >> well, our strength is our message. our strength are our values. our message of wall street accountability, of immigration reform, of attacking the criminal justice system that disproportionately impacts blacks and latinos. our agenda and platform is the strongest by far issue by issue, if you go down the line. senator sanders comes from a state with a small population of african americans and latinos. so our challenge is introducing our senator to the country. as people hear our story, they're turning. not only turning, they're getting excited. we had nearly 2,000 people in the last couple days with sub freezing temperatures. that shows the type of intensity that we're having and you just saw the turnaround of events in
nevada, all across this country, communities of color are learning about the senator, about our agenda and are coming out in droves. >> hillary clinton this afternoon just announced a new policy. she talked about having a surcharge on people who make more than $5 million a year. i would think bernie sanders would like that idea. >> absolutely. our platform has been consistent and integral. when you look at our campaign, we are a campaign based on values. and one of the values is that we need to take care of working class families of the middle class and taxing the rich and the billionaire and millionaire class is a core part of the agenda. i'm glad that secretary clinton is proposing this type of approach, which we've been consistently advancing since the very beginning, frankly. >> arturo carmona, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you.
president obama is finalizing his last state of the union address. the white house just released this preview ahead of the event. >> this is it. and never in our lives again will we have the chance to do as much good as we do right now. i want to make sure that we maximize it. caring for someone with alzheimer's means i am a lot of things. i am his guardian. i am his voice. so i asked about adding once-daily namenda xr to his current treatment for moderate to severe alzheimer's. it works differently. when added to another alzheimer's treatment, it may improve overall function and cognition. and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. vo: namenda xr doesn't change how the disease progresses. it shouldn't be taken by anyone allergic to memantine, or who's had a bad reaction to namenda xr or its ingredients. before starting treatment, tell their doctor if they have, or ever had, a seizure disorder, difficulty passing urine, liver, kidney or bladder problems, and about medications they're taking. certain medications, changes in diet, or medical conditions
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lay out is a picture of the country moving forward, focused on the future, not afraid of it, and very optimistic about our future because of what he knows about this country, which is that when we draw on everybody's strength, when everybody has a shot in this economy, when we're using all our elements of national power to make the world safe and by the way, when everybody gets their shot, not just the select fee, then the sky is the limit for what the american people can do and what this country can do. >> let me bring in nbc's ron allen at the white house. ron, what do we expect? why are they saying it's going to be so different from previous states of the union? >> because this is a really big moment for president obama, i think it's fair to say, kate. traditionally state of the union speeches are legislative priorities, some of the nitty gritty of governance. this is going to be about history, about legacy. it's going to be something of a victory lap, if you will. the president talking about what he feels he's accomplished over the past seven years, and even more so, what he wants to
accomplish in the final year. we hear words like optimism, opportunity, challenges. it's going to be those kinds of themes that we're going to hear the president talk about. and remember, this is perhaps the last time that he will have this large an audience to speak to during his presidency and perhaps ever. so many people will be watching, tuning in on television, streaming video, so on and so forth. we know the president has a lot on his mind, a lot of things he feels very passionately about, so i think we're going to hear for an hour or so, the president really try to seize this moment. >> they put out a couple of videos already that seem a little bit more youtube friendly. are they going to live stream the whole thing? >> on amazon and on snap chat. the administration just joined snap chat today. you can see they're very active in the social media space, facebook, twitter. this is a hallmark of this administration, trying to talk to people where they are, to use the media term, but also trying
to talk above us, not having their message filtered. just the other day, snap chat claims to have 100 million users and most of them would not have been able to vote for president obama back in 2008, because they're under 25 years of age. so that's where this is going, as it has been, as we know. >> makes me feel a little old. okay, ron allen at the white house, thanks so much. u.s. supreme court case that could gut powerful unions. what happened during today's oral arguments before the bench and how it could impact you. goo, you get hungry just thinking about 'em. and at red lobster's big festival of flavors you can savor 2 of 7 new and classic creations on one plate for $15.99. like delicious new maple-and-bacon grilled shrimp, because c'mon, what doesn't bacon go with? or get a little kick with these new ghost pepper bbq grilled shrimp. because if you like it spicy, garlicky, or cheesy, trust me you'll like this. but every last flavor is too good to last-so hurry in!
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that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? the most notorious drug lord in the world, joaquin "el chapo" guzman is sitting in a mexican prison now, but he may face trial here in the united states. as mexican authorities have already begun the extradition process, el chapo was captured, as you know, in the raid shown in this video that we just obtained from the mexican marines. it shows the raid on the king pin's safe house, which led to a shoot-out with marines and his eventual capture there. the marines are blasting through walls, throwing grenades. for the latest, let's go to mexico where guzman is being held in a maximum security prison, where nbc's jacob rascon is standing by for us. >> reporter: kate, this is breaking in the last hour since
we talked last, a mexican federal judge has already temporarily suspended el chapo's extradition order. this is expected, we believe. we knew that there would be starts and stops and starts and stops. there are many legal options available for el chapo's defense. we knew they would try all means necessary to stop this from happening. and this is why, according to u.s. officials and mexican authorities, the extradition could take a year and likely much longer. we know that this is el chapo's third time in the prison behind me. mexico's top maximum security facility. he was here first in 1993, after his initial arrest. he escaped from a different prison because he was transferred to another prison in 2001. and then when he was re-arrested in 2014, he came back here and then of course as we all know, he escaped in dramatic fashion last year. worth noting that every time he escapes, when he could go
anywhere in the world, of course, he goes home to sinaloa. he was found in los mochis, about 900 miles away from here, about a 14-hour drive or a three-hour flight. that's where he was found last friday and then he was taken here. we're told that since his last escape, the prison has had some upgrades inside to security. we're not clear on what those are, but this was and still is mexico's top maximum security facility, but in an about-face, different from two years ago, mexico is now saying, we're ready to extradite. kate? >> all right, jacob rascon outside the prison, thank you. actor sean penn has landed himself in the spotlight of the el chapo investigation. mexican authorities want to speak with him now following that "rolling stone" magazine publication of his secret interview with the drug lord. penn tells the associated press, he has nothing to hide following his interview with guzman. joining me now for more on all
of this, ari melber and cal perry. i want to ask you both a couple of questions about this. there's so much talk about what happens to sean penn, given what he did. ari, let me start with you. legally speaking, he was acting as a journalist is he on safe terrain? >> he's on safe terrain here in the united states. "rolling stone" is a real journalistic publication, even if some people feel he's not much of a journalist. mexican authorities may want to speak with him, but that goes to how they view it. but unless he took some action, aiding and abetting this individual and his report doesn't suggest that, he's free under the law to speak with a fugitive. >> but if he's a felon, i was talking with karen desoto, also a legal analyst, who's saying, the only thing that's maybe tricky is, if you're in the presence of somebody who escaped
from prison, does that make you a witness? >> it makes you someone authorities might want to talk to. but individual citizens aren't bounty hunters. so whether you come into that contact through journalism or some other mechanism, you're not an element of the state. like with julian assange and edward snowden. >> so there's the legal opinion and there's the public opinion. cal, you've been monitoring that. people are pretty harsh on sean penn today. >> he looked pretty upset. there's this piece that says el chapo will have the kind of final edit on the piece. that's very problematic. any news organization, listen, our priority is our viewer. that's where our loyalty lies. not with the person we're conducting an interview with. so there's that problem. add to that problem, it was just this interview with el chapo, it doesn't get into sort of what he
has been responsible for across mexico and here in the united states. add to that, the security question. how did this come about, and obviously you have this legal issue and some people online are saying regardless of whether or not he was legally responsible to let authorities know. some people believe it's the right thing to do. >> let me turn back to el chapo. we heard jacob rascon reporting, saying already there seems to be an appeal being made by his folks to stop extradition to the united states. not surprising, right? we knew el chapo's lawyers would get in there and say, no, no, no, don't send him to the u.s. >> exactly. and this is where law meets law enforcement. el chapo doesn't seem afraid of anyone in mexico on any side of the law. he's not afraid of his jailers. we've learned they're swayed by him or paid off by him. what is he afraid of? the united states. and those who are angry about the sean penn article can take
some pride in this if they want. this is a country that keeps people in jail on the inside the majority of the time. >> appreciate it. for more on el chapo's case, let's go to jose diaz-balart. you made your way to mexico city. he has a long history of being arrested and escaping. how confident are you and how confident are the mexicans that they can keep him in that prison? >> they better be able to keep him, because if he escapes again, it would be ridiculing the ridiculous. this guy has been able to escape from every maximum security prison mexico has thrown at it. let's go a little bit back in time. in 1993, he was first arrested in guatemala, very close to the mexican border. this video you're seeing here is from his escape from the jail 11th of july of last year. that picture is of el chapo, a young joaquin "el chapo" guzman
in 1993 when he was arrested back then, he said he was just a farmer and didn't know what drugs were. in 2001, he bribed guards which wasn't that tough to do in one of mexico's high security prisons, and apparently he was let go by putting him in a laundry cart, putting dirty laundry on top of him, and then wheeling him right out the front door. he was free until 2014 when he was recaptured in mazatlan. then he escapes again just last year, the 11th of july, from mexico's other top security prison. a tunnel, kate, that was one mile long, it had a motorcycle on rails. said it cost about a million dollars just to do that tunnel that you're seeing right there, and he escaped. to be caught last friday in this operation that you saw here and
that we just recently on msnbc got the videos of the mexican government released the videos, there you see them right there, of the attack on the compound where el chapo was. five of el chapo's men were killed. one military marine was injured. six people arrested, including el chapo and his head of security. but i got to tell you, that compound and that house he was at had a false mirror in the bathroom. you actual pulled one of the lights from the mirror, you know, the vanity lights, a string came down, you pulled that string, and the mirror opened up. he went right through there, down a beautifully designed tunnel. you get the picture that this guy and his men know how to make tunnels? >> wow, through a mirror. >> yeah, into the town's sewage system, where he was finally apprehended, when he came out and got a car to try to get away. this guy knows how to build
tunnels and get away. >> we keep saying it's like a hollywood movie, you can't write this stuff. i think we have a new photo. >> it's incredible. >> i think we have a new photo of sean penn? is that sean penn? i can't tell. and that's kate del castillo, the actress. and you know her, tell us more about that connection. >> i do very well. kate del castillo is an incredibly accomplished actress and she has directed as well. but she is one of the most beloved actresses, mexican-american, just became an american citizen, i believe just early last year. she was in one of telemundo network's, one of the biggest hits we ever had, the queen of the south, where she played a female cartel drug leader. and that is apparently, kate, where joaquin "el chapo" guzman
became enamorate of her and reached out to her after she tweeted that el chapo, you should use your power for good. tried to send her flowers and then they kept exchanging messages and el chapo wanted her to produce a movie about his life and that's where sean penn came in. when they busted el chapo in that hide-out, he had dvds of that telemundo novella in his safe house. and hair dye. a man after my own health. >> what? a hair dye? >> he had a hair dye pack. apparently he worried about the color of his hair. >> okay, yeah, understood. >> notice his mustache and his hair is perfectly black. >> yeah. >> and apparently he had the queen of the south dvds and hair dye, two important things if you're going to be hiding out in the middle of sinaloa. >> and i just want to make clear the picture we just got in, it shows sean penn and kate del
castillo and those are associates of el chapo. that picture is from their secret meeting last fall. >> jose diaz-balart, thanks so much. >> good to see you. >> you too. the supreme court heard arguments in a case today that could deal a severe blow to public sector unions. justices will decide if state government workers who choose not to join a union can be required to pay partial union dues. since 1997, the supreme court has said non-union employees could be forced to pay part of the dues. let me bring in nbc news justice correspondent pete williams from outside the supreme court. pete, tell us about arguments today. >> well, the teachers who are challenging which scheme say even requiring to pay the cost of collective bargaining in their union dues, if they're not union members, nonetheless is compelled speech. it violates their first
amendment rights, they say, because it subsidizes union positions that they don't agree with. for example, they don't like the fact that the union tends to protect seniority, last in, first out, that kind of thing, and that seemed to get resonance with the supreme court today. anthony kennedy echoed just that point that the challenging teachers have made here. he said many teachers are very, very strongly opposed to the public sector union's position on such issues as merit pay and retention and seniority. so the majority of the supreme court did seem inclined to rule against the unions and say that if you're not in a union, if you choose not to belong, you don't have to pay the union fee. now to be clear, the court hasn't reached that decision yet. the decision probably won't come until probably sometime later this year, but perhaps by late june, but it seemed based on the oral argument, that the union's going to lose this one. >> pete, thanks so much. >> you bet.
coming up, delayed indefinitely. we'll explain the roadblock in the trial of the police officer who drove the van with freddie gray. we'll talk about why that delay could impact all six officers charged. i'm here at my house, on thanksgiving day and i have a massive heart attack right in my driveway. the doctor put me on a bayer aspirin regimen. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore.
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that matters to me. i have three children that are going to grow up here and i want them to be able to enjoy all the things that i was able to enjoy. together, we're building a better california. the trial of a second baltimore police officer charged in the death of freddie gray has been delayed. jury selection was set to begin today in officer caesar goodson jr's trial, but the maryland
court of special appeals put a stay on the trial indefinitely. the court will now decide if fellow officer william porter, whose own trial ended in a mistrial as a result of a hung jury, if he must be compelled to testify at goodson's trial, if he's called. goodson was the driver of the fan where gray suffered a broken neck and a severe spinal cord injury while he was being transported. goodson faces the most serious charges, including misconduct of office, manslaughter and it carries a sentence of up to 30 years in prison. joy reid has been covering this story for us. good to see you. >> great to see you, kate. >> so this is all a delay over basically whether the other officer, whose trial ended in a hung jury, whether that guy has to testify? >> yeah, i'm going to channel my inner ari melber. because it's sort of complicated and unprecedented. the first trial of william porter, who was one of the two police officers who encountered
freddie gray along the ride, while he was injured at some point along this ride in officer goodson's van. that trial ended in a mistrial. the original goal of the prosecution was to convict him and compel him to testify in this trial. but what's happened, the judge has said he has to testify, even though his trial, essentially hasn't started because it ended in a mistrial. he still faces a trial. for someone who still faces a trial of their own, under the theory that we want to have you testify but we won't use anything that you say in your testimony against you. his lawyers are saying that's unprecedented. and even if the local court didn't use his statements against him, the feds sure could because that's an open question. he could be tried by a federal jury and his testimony used. so that has to be resolved now before the case can go forward. >> so the defense is worried about him having to testify, but the prosecution might also be
worried, because they still have to go after him, they still have another trial coming with him. >> typically you'd offer him immunity and say, we'll do a plea deal with william porter to get him to testify against caesar goodson, the driver. we think the prosecution wants to allege that caesar goodson gave freddie gray a rough ride, meaning a deliberately jarring ride, as some sort of punishment and there's an allegation that there's this long-standing tradition that's gone on in the department, in west baltimore, that they would essentially give people these rough rides that could injure them and in this case, gave fatal injuries to freddie gray. but to do that, they need the officers who saw freddie gray at some point along the way to testify. they're trying to compel william porter to do it. his lawyers are saying no way, we don't want him to incriminate himself by testifying against the driver. >> joy reid, thanks so much. now josh for the cnbc market wrap. >> u.s. stocks closing mixed monday, stabilizing after their
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private battle with cancer. his influence was felt in almost every area of music from madonna to punk rock. he turned 69 on friday. that same day, the singer released his 25th and now final album "black star," an album that his agent called a parting gift. bill neely, i know, like me, you were a huge fan. you grew up listening to his music. this is such a tough day. >> tough day, and quite a shock. i was 12 when i bought my first album hunky-dory. we were obsessed at the time with the space program. and david bowie sang ground control to major tom, life on mars, ziggy stardust. i remember when i got ziggy stardust and brought it into the house, it felt dangerous. he was that different.
i grew up in a fairly repressed society in northern ireland and here was this half man/half woman, this androgenous creature, singing these crazy song. it really felt rebellious. that's what bowie was, he was a rebel. so many songs are about that, changes, rebel rebel. he was an extraordinary figure. tonight on the streets of the suburb of london, brickston, where he was born, there are hundreds, more than a thousand people out on the street, singing his song, laying flowers, messages, tributes. tributes today from british prime minister david cameron, tony blair, because for them, as well as for me, he was the soundtrack of our teenage years. but that final album, "black star" released on friday, two days before his death is really quite extraordinary. he anticipated many things, we mentioned ziggy stardust and the transgender debate, but he was
almost writing his own rec we yem, his own obituary in one of the songs "lazarus" which begins, look up here, i'm in heaven, oh, i'll be free, ain't that just like me. bowie, the free spirit right to the end. the lost legend, dead at 69. >> bill neely in london, thanks so much. for more i want to bring in senior editor at billboard, alex gale is with us. just to pick up where bill left off, this album comes out on friday, it's his birthday, and then he passes just days later. do people think that he sort of planned it this way? >> i do think he sort of did. his collaborator, his long-time producer who said the album is a parting gift, also said that bowie's life was a work of art. he would embody these characters from head to toe, and now his death has become a work of art. the whole album is about death and illness and impending doom
and he confronts it head on. so i think it was a real-life sort of punctuation mark on that album there. >> he was on the billboard list a lot. although not unusually in the number one slot. only a couple of times. "let's dance" was number one for a week in 1983 and fame was number one for two weeks in 1975. but he was on the list, he made the list a bunch of times and for so many different kinds of songs. they each feel so different. >> he really helped godfather so many genres, if he wasn't helping to start them, like glam rock, or early punk. he really helped bring electronic music to the forefront in the late '70s, drum and bass in the '90s. and this album, his last album, has touches of jazz. and he was inspired by kendrick lamar. >> and that was a big part of his life too, was collaboration.
>> absolutely. >> john lennon famously, yoko ono put out a tweet and said, john and i had very few friends, we thought david was as close as family. he collaborated with nine inch nails. is that part of who he was? >> absolutely. i think he was very much about bringing different people into his incredible vision and really making it what he wanted it to be. if you look at queen, just his amazing band in the '70s with mick ronson. it's really almost all legends. he did a song with queen latifah, tina turner, that's why you see the whole world mourning him, even outside of music, into art, into fashion, into issues of gender, he really touched on everything. >> he was an actor. >> absolutely. i left one out. labyrinth, that was one of my favorite movies as a kid. he was amazing in it.
>> so nice to see you, sorry it's not for a better reason, but thank you. >> thank you. that's going to do it for this hour of msnbc live. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's monday, there are only 21 days until people actual start to pick a president. and our new numbers show exactly why even the front-runners are turning up the heat. the state of the union may be strong, but the state of the early states is entirely up in the air. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening, everyone. i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd. here is tonight's take. we have three margin of error races with three weeks to go until the voting starts.