tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC January 14, 2016 10:00am-12:01pm PST
hi, everybody. great to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts. tonight, the sixth republican presidential debate will be happening, just two and a half weeks before the iowa caucuses. the phrase follow the money is revealing a new controversy that could spell trouble for senator ted cruz, the iowa front-runner. gop rival donald trump calling the "new york times" report a quote, very big thing. an investigation found that cruz's 2012 campaign failed to report low interest loans totalling up to about $1 million from two big wall street banks, goldman sachs and citibank. wednesday night, senator cruz made remarks about the report, attempting to diminish any importance of it. >> we borrowed against the stocks and assets that we had under ordinary terms. if it was the case that they were not filed exactly as the fec requires, then we will amend the filings. our finances are not complicated. we put in the entirety of our savings through a combination of
savings accounts and selling assets and taking a margin loan against other assets, and those facts are clear and transparent and a technical inadvertent filing error does not change that at all. >> so it is unclear whether senator cruz will face any sanctions. what is clear is the report on those new york bank loans come just as cruz has gone on the attack against donald trump, attempting to politically demean him with having quote, new york values. asked about the new line of attacks, this is what trump told bloomberg politics' mark halperin and john heilemann. >> i embrace, i -- look, in new york we took a big hit with the world trade center. worst thing ever. worst attack ever in the united states. worse than pearl harbor because they attacked civilians, they attacked people having breakfast. and frankly, you know, if you would have been there and if you would have lived through that like i did with new york people, the way they handled that attack was one of the most incredible things that anybody has ever seen.
>> i will be speaking with a soon oradvisor for ted cruz's campaign in a few minutes but i want to begin with our correspondent in south carolina, nbc's katy tur who has been following the trump campaign. she is live in north charleston. this bromance is off between trump and cruz, but is the trump campaign feeling that it has the upper hand going into tonight's debate because of this recent headline? >> reporter: the trump campaign does certainly feel good about the recent headlines. this is another opportunity for them to hit ted cruz in a subtle way without saying that they are the ones on the attack, that other people are talking about it saying that it's a very big issue for ted cruz. they are also probably feeling good about the birther attacks and how they have gone so far. they are carpeting the press right now, whether or not ted cruz is eligible. people are questioning it. they are getting it into the minds of voters and that's exactly what they were hoping to do, to question his eligibility, to question how well he would do if he got into the general election, make it seem like he's not necessarily a sure bet. so this loan issue is something that they are going to be
seizing on as well. whether or not they are going to seize on it tonight at the debate remains to be seen. of course, trump has said multiple times that he is a counters-puncher so it might end up having to be something that he brings up only if ted cruz hits him first. >> we know donald trump has risen because he's anti-establishment. ted cruz always tried to paint himself as anti-establishment. let's talk about the establishment folks. we have jeb bush out with the new ad airing in new hampshire that goes directly at trump. take a look. >> donald trump facing new criticism for something he did on the campaign trail last
night in south carolina. >> you got to see this guy. oh, i don't know what i said. i don't remember. >> i have a 12-year-old son who is handicapped. he has cerebral palsy. that made me so angry. i told my wife i couldn't let that stand. i had to do something to make sure donald trump wasn't the nom ne nominee for the republican party. >> the lead clip is bush on the stump saying donald trump is a jerk. then it goes into the other
clips. bush definitely has the bankroll to put these types of really slick ads together and fund them in new hampshire and iowa but what's the game plan for bush, especially as he's trying to elevate himself to that level, because right now, it seems like the only two people we are talking about, christie -- i mean, christie and kasich, not on the radar. it's about cruz and trump. >> reporter: well, jeb bush, many people are wondering why he didn't come out with these sort of attacks sooner. they are saying it was hard and it was a pretty good attack on donald trump but it's something he should have done much earlier on in this campaign instead
of trying to ignore donald trump and hoping that he would drop out. the establishment candidates right now are really battling it out in new hampshire, hoping that one of them is going to be able to break free. chris christie may not be being talked about that much but he is certainly doing well in new hampshire. and gop insiders say that they are really looking at who's going to come in number two in new hampshire. if it was an outsider candidate like ted cruz, watch out for ted
cruz. if it's somebody like chris christie there is some thought the establishment figures will coalesce around christie and push him through to the nomination. >> katy tur reporting in south carolina, in place for tonight's debate. thanks so much. joining me now is alice stewart. alice is senior advisor for the ted cruz campaign. nice to have you with me. >> great to be here. thank you. >> so we have a lot to talk about. we are heading into this debate and a lot of talk about the "new york times" report about your candidate's business dealings, this alleged sweetheart back room deal to finance his campaign is bound to come up. explain how senator ted cruz will try to rationalize this style of political hypocrisy. >> well, first of all, the facts speak for themselves. this was a situation where ted cruz took out a loan. he and his wife got together, took out a loan and paid it back. it's plain and simple. that's all there is to it. the information about this loan was disclosed repeatedly over and over and over and it was
filed in his -- with the senate campaign. however, the proper paperwork inadvertently was omitted from the fec filings and the process of correcting that is under way. a very important line in that "new york times" story is the very last, the fourth or fifth paragraph where it says there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any kind of deal being done with this loan. it was a loan, it was disclosed, they paid it back, end of story. >> all right. so while people would like to try to connect the dots of any style of impropriety because mrs. cruz is on leave as managing director for goldman sachs, i think a lot of people would probably have questions about the anti-establishment message of senator ted cruz, who recently had said about goldman sachs in particular like many other players on wall street and big business, they seek out and get special treatment. so how does goldman sachs or
citibank really comport with the name senator ted cruz if he's trying to be anti-establishment and you can't get any more establishment than those two folks? >> look, there's no one that's going to be on that debate stage this evening that has fought against the establishment any more than ted cruz. he has made a name for himself doing so. he's fighting against the washington elite and the power brokers in washington and that's quite clear. as i said over and over while people want to look at certain aspects of the "new york times," it's critical to look at every detail in that, and the most important of which is that no special deal was made. they took out a loan, they paid it back. the proper paperwork is being taken care of right now and now he's looking forward to competing in the debate tonight and talking about the issues that we have been hearing across iowa and we have heard in new hampshire and we plan to hear in south carolina, is people here want a president and presidential candidate who focuses on national security and improving our economy. >> so the strongest rival in iowa to senator cruz is donald
trump. and this new line of attack that senator cruz used against trump, quote, new york values, saying that that's what donald trump represents. donald trump fired back, saying that the response to 9/11 showed the best of new york values. does the campaign and senator cruz regret using that remark to try to politically demean donald trump? >> the purpose was to simply state once again the fact that it's being taken out of context, that donald trump lives in new york, he has views and values that are not similar to those of people in iowa. it's not being disparaging whatsoever. he's just saying they're different. as we travel throughout iowa and here's the thing that's getting under donald trump's skin is that all these attacks that he continues to lodge against ted cruz, they're not working. and it's evidenced by the recent polls. just the other day the des moines register poll came out showing ted cruz over trump by three points. the nbc poll recently showing
him up by four. fox news, up by four points. the fact that ted cruz is beating donald trump who made a name for himself and a brand for himself by winning and the fact that he's losing, it's getting under his skin. >> the des moines poll, you referenced the three point lead, it is within the margin of error. as we look at that, the trump campaign would characterize it to say this is basically a statistical dead heat. i know on the howie carr show the other day, senator cruz says the donald seems to be a bit rattled. donald trump has definitely made comment in remarks to the senator's birthplace and his eligibility to run for president. is the campaign going to put the lid on this once and for all tonight about his eligibility for citizenship or his eligibility as a citizen to run for president that's been questioned? >> well, it's been questioned by donald trump, who as we say, who is used to winning and is not winning at this point, and if the question comes up, sure, ted cruz will correct the record but
it's abundantly clear and the constitution is abundantly clear that a child born of a u.s. citizen is, in fact, a natural born citizen. it's abundantly clear. ted cruz's mother was born in delaware. he is her son, he is a natural born citizen and under the constitution, a natural born citizen is eligible to be president of the united states. while donald trump wants to talk about this, his birther argument didn't work against obama years ago and it's not going to work this time. he's clearly trying to muddy the waters and show distractions from the fact that ted cruz is connecting with the people of iowa. we spent the past week on a bus tour in iowa, and this isn't what they are asking about. this is not what is concerning to them. they want someone like ted cruz that they trust will go to washington and help fight for stronger economy and also make us stronger internationally and lead us and make us stronger and safer nation. that's exactly -- that's what the people are concerned with, not these distractions that donald trump is throwing out.
>> some people would say that's a liberal talking point to say that it worked for obama and is going to work for senator cruz. is he comfortable being aligned with president obama in this capacity? >> the fact is, that's not something that is on the radar. that's not certainly something -- tell you what, ted cruz is just as much a natural born citizen as donald trump, as barack obama, as all other natural u.s. citizens in this country, and he's in line with all natural born citizens and as i said, his focus is not to be distracted on this issue. his focus on the debate stage tonight, what we have been working across iowa and south carolina, is listening to what is on the hearts and minds of people in this country and showing right now, we are in the face of a contrast, showing the contrast between he and the other candidates on issues people care about, not the distractions that someone like donald trump wants to make. >> look forward to watching tonight. great to have you back on the program. i look forward to talking to you a lot more as we ramp up to iowa
and beyond. alice stewart, thanks. >> thanks, thomas. we want to turn to the democratic side, where right now it looks like that race in iowa is also a toss-up, a dead heat. the latest des moines register/bloomberg politics poll showing hillary clinton with a slight lead over bernie sanders, just two points. again, within the margin of error. the latest numbers come as the two top candidates have picked up the attacks on each other and as we just learned, all three candidates are qualifying for sunday's debate. the third being martin o'malley, hosted by nbc and with the tightness of the race in mind, senator sanders' campaign has released a tough new ad against hillary clinton. msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki joins me now. steve, set up the significance of this attack ad. >> well, yeah. the context here first of all is that hillary clinton in the last week or so has really stepped up her attacks. in one case, chelsea clinton, hillary and bill's daughter, with attacks as well on bernie sanders. they have been targeting him specifically on health care, saying he's not been specific enough, how he pays for his
plan. this is something the sanders campaign has strongly objected to. now bernie sanders, who entered this campaign bragging in his announcement speech that never in his life had he run a negative political attack ad, never would he run a negative political attack ad, he is up with an ad in iowa and new hampshire. we will let you judge for yourself if this counts as a negative ad but it is a contrast ad about bernie sanders and hillary clinton
over the issue of wall street. this is a cut of it. >> there are two democratic visions for regulating wall street. one says it's okay to take millions from big banks, then tell them what to do. my plan, break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes and make them pay their fair share. >> again, you can judge for yourself if you consider that a negative attack ad. he is characterizing his opponent's position there, not naming hillary clinton by name there. very clear who he's talking about, though. this is an issue certainly there have been interviews, there have been moments on the campaign
trail where bernie sanders has been pressed on this issue of wall street and has drawn contrasts with hillary clinton. again, this is a candidate who part of his brand, part of his appeal is that he represents a clean type of politics, that he brags about not running negative ads, that was part of his message when he got into this race. is this a change in strategy, will we see more of this from the sanders campaign. that's something to keep an eye on going forward. >> thank you. msnbc's steve kornacki. a reminder, a programming note, hillary clinton is going to be joining rachel maddow tonight for an interview 9:00 eastern on msnbc. also, friendly reminder, sunday night, nbc news hosting the next democratic debate, 9:00 p.m. eastern time. so we talked a lot about winning the states of iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. well, now we got to talk about winning powerball because we got three other states with three winning tickets. live reports from each lucky location next. for four years, you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together.
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welcome back. today, powerball pandemonium lives on. we have three winning tickets sold that match those numbers in last night's almost $1.6 billion jackpot. the states where the tickets were sold, california, tennessee and florida, now this is the biggest lottery win ever. residents descended on their local 7-eleven after learning the ticket was sold there. free slurpies for everybody. the crowd was thrilled to have a winner right in their become yard. >> i'm really proud. yes. >> i love it because it's exciting to know somebody from our little city won. it's so exciting. i'm excited for them and i don't
even know who it is. >> i know. but you got a lot of best friends, whoever you are out there. we have correspondents in all three states where the winning tickets were sold. want to begin in chino hills, california. morgan, you are outside the 7-eleven we have celebrating going on. i can only see from behind you the crowd seems bigger outside as well as in. >> reporter: that's right. there's a lot of people outside and inside, because people are thrilled here in southern california, especially in chino hills. they have been pouring into this 7-eleven behind me since late last night into the early hours this morning, just to catch a glimpse of where this winning ticket was sold. now, this 7-eleven actually wins a $1 million bonus just for selling that winning ticket. in fact, you can see the people gathering here preparing for a press conference in about an hour, when the lottery officials will update us on exactly what' happened. but so far, no one's actually come forward to self-identify as the winner. and it is illegal in california to remain anonymous. we are waiting today to see what
unfolds but either way it goes, these are not the only winners. there are 12 other winners who got five out of six of those numbers, all across the state of southern california -- all across the state of california and they actually have receive $600,000. >> wow. all right. we know that whoever bought that ticket in chino hills has a lot of new best friends lined up and waiting. morgan radford, thanks. want to go to our colleague, nbc's kerry sanders in melbourne beach, florida. kerry, what about the winner there? have we heard, who is it? >> reporter: we are still waiting to find out who it is. we do not know. likely the person knows because they have looked at their ticket but maybe they haven't. it could be just somebody who was shopping here at the publix grocery store, bought the ticket and hasn't looked yet. i can show you what the tickets that didn't win look like. see that? not a winner, not a winner, not a winner, not a winner. there's a lot of those not a winner. exactly. so we are in this beautiful community here which is melbourne beach, a seaside
community on the atlantic ocean. this winner will walk away with such a tremendous amount of money. we can tell you, though, that if they decide to just splurge a little bit, just up the road here on the water, there's a nice acre for sale, asking price $2.7 million. it's a five bedroom, four bath and so it's the kind of thing that now this winner can do. they can just throw caution to the wind and spend money recklessly because they have got so much money, it's crazy. >> i love it. who threw the salt in your wounds, where did the not the winner stamp come from? >> reporter: this is what happens in florida. every state's different. when you buy the powerball ticket, when you take it and drop it into the machine afterwards to tell you whether you won or not, it prints not a winner, not a winner, not a winner. now, i'm wondering if i can expense these. >> of course. you are always a winner in our
book. kerry sanders, thank you. want to head to our colleague, nbc's gabe gutierrez in tennessee. gabe, any takers there for the win? >> reporter: hey, thomas. good afternoon. well, things here a little bit different than what kerry is seeing in florida and what morgan is seeing in california. here in tennessee, the actual announcement hasn't been made of exactly what store actually won. we are inside the marathon in munford, tennessee. lottery officials are coming to the area to announce which store actually sold the winning ticket but we don't even know if this is it. but this is only one of three stores in this area that sells powerball tickets. i'm joined by the owner here of this marathon. good to see you. now, you are waiting to hear -- >> yes. >> reporter: -- if your store sold the winning ticket. there's a lot on the line for you. that would be a $25,000 check if you are the one. tell me, when did you hear that you could be the one? >> 5:30 in the morning. they said they called me and said the news crew is outside
the store and i'm just excited. i don't know what's going on. >> reporter: well, thank you so much for allowing us here and there's a lot of reporters at this marathon here, wanting to see not only who is it going to be, who is a winner but who sold the winning ticket. there's a lot of anticipation right now. thomas, also, tennessee really seems to be a lucky state, because not only was there a previous jackpot winner here but somebody else last night won $2 million besides the jackpot. not too shabby. we'll be waiting to see which store sold the winning ticket. we should know within the next hour or so. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez reporting in tennessee, thank you, sir. big question. what would do you if you had that winning powerball ticket? it is your microsoft pulse question of the day. would you go to work if you won the powerball jackpot? would you show up, play it cool, let people think you didn't win? who knows. the pulse live, weigh in on that
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and a $200 savings card. welcome back. in just over an hour, 2:30 eastern time, the city of chicago will release video of the shooting death of cedric chapman, who was shot and killed in 2013 by a chicago police officer. now a judge ordered the release at a hearing this morning and it comes just one day after the city dropped its opposition to making that video public. police have said they thought chapman had a gun and the officer was in fear of his life. chapman's family said he was not armed and the video is going to prove that. the family's attorney echoed that sentiment this morning. >> from the time cedric chapman gets out of the car, opens the door and blocks officer toth he runs across the street, he turns west on the south sidewalk, it's less than ten seconds and he's lying on the street mortally wounded. >> the independent police review
authority found the officer was justified in that shooting. we have the latest from chicago and also what this means as the judicial process plays out legally. nbc's john yang joins me live from chicago. john, walk us through what happened in that hearing today. >> reporter: well, thomas, it really wasn't a confrontation that we expected between the rahm emanuel administration and the family of a young man killed by chicago police. once the chicago law department switched their positions, you know, as recently as december 23rd, they had a court filing arguing that tse tapes should remain sealed and then late yesterday, just before the court closed for business, they filed motions saying that they then agreed with the family that these tapes should be released. community activist william callaway attended the hearing. afterward he said the demonstrators who took to the streets should take credit for that change. >> i think it's important for
the public to know if it wasn't for the protesters and if it wasn't for the calling of the cedric chapman video to be released, rahm would not have took that order off. >> reporter: at the same time, the federal judge had harsh words for the city law department. he said he was disturbed by some of the filings in this case from the law department in which they argued that the tape was not crucial to their defense. he said after looking at the tape, he thinks it is. he can't imagine how it could not be. and he also said that the city law department may have a problem in this case, because there are two defendants, two officers, the officer who shot cedric chapman, the officer kevin frye and lou toth, the other officer, he said that this tape actually helps lou toth, officer toth, because the chase is so fast, it doesn't appear there's anything he could have done to stop the shooting. thomas? >> nbc's john yang reporting in
chicago, thanks very much. as promised, we want to go to the other angle on this, the legal angle. want to talk to chief legal correspondent ari melber about this. we hear about the two officers, the names being kevin frye and lou toth, these are the responding officers in this, but the kid just 17 years old. so explain what the primary dispute is for the family's case. >> 17 years old, and according to everyone, unarmed. this is a question about whether this video which we now expect to get today, we will be showing it to viewers after we review it and get it, shows him basically holding a case his lawyers say was an iphone case which officers wrongly thought they say was a weapon. that leads to his family filing this wrongful termination suit. they allege deadly force used against chapman, against circumstances when he quote, posed no threat of death or serious bodily harm. s want to tell you that they say there's a coverup which goes to what you and mr. yang were talking about. how does the city of chicago, separate from the officers, how
does the city deal with it. they allege it was a cover-up of abuses fostered upon citizens by officers employed by members of the chicago p.d. >> when we talk about what's going on in chicago and the uphill questions for the mayor rahm emanuel as well as the police department there, explain the connective tissue why this resonates, because of laquan mcdonald, right? >> right. laquan mcdonald was the case that led to everything in chicago that people have seen recently, including the firing of chicago's police superintendent and it was a situation where cops and the city kept saying one thing, he lunged, he had a knife, he attacked and the video which they fought so hard to restrict and many remember the graphic video shows no, he didn't lunge with the knife, he wasn't coming at the officers. he was shot basically moving away from the officers and then shot basically 15 more times on the ground. rahm emanuel was asked about this today as we wait, today, this new video coming out and we want to play his answer not because it is very illuminating but because it shows the uphill climb in chicago. he's still leaning on the idea
there are old policies he keeps basically following. here it is. >> for 40 or 50 years, actually much longer but as it relates to material investigation, that policy for the city has always existed which is you don't do anything to hamper an investigation. we are in the middle of transition to a different policy or at least transparency in letting that material out and the decision there is exactly an example of that. >> that's rahm emanuel saying he's transitioning policies. translation, these police videos are going to come out, indeed, this one of cedric chapman's killing, at 2:30 today. >> we will see how this all plays out. the city of chicago, rahm emanuel, who knows if he will stay in that post. lot of people calling for him to resign. thank you, sir. turning back to the race for 2016. we have the rnc preparing for the possibility of a brokered convention. what's the potential of that question? msnbc's kasie hunt will join me from the site of tonight's gop debate to explain the rnc position. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain...
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i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. we are vying in a very heated battle right now to see who will be the nominee and i don't want donald trump to be the nominee so i think it's an unfair question in the sense that we aren't there yet. let's ask it once we get there and i think you'll find probably the same answer that most people will support the nominee. >> all right. there we have senator rand paul asked by my colleague andrea mitchell what would he do if donald trump is the republican nominee. right now, the associated press is reporting that the republican party's trying to figure out a number of possible scenarios, including whether there is no clear nominee, the result of which would be a brokered convention. haley barbour, former republican party chairman, was asked that party last night and here's what
he told msnbc's chris matthews. >> is it possible to have a brokered convention and deny the delegate leader the nomination? is that even feasible? >> well, i don't think that that will happen. i think it's unlikely that anybody will come -- that we'll have a convention where somebody doesn't have a majority when they get there. if nobody has a majority, if it is a contested convention, most likely the person with the most delegates who gets there without a majority will ultimately win. not impossible, but i think it is very implausible. >> msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt is in north charleston, south carolina and joins us now. implausible but talk to us about what you have been able to learn about that potential scenario. >> reporter: well, republicans are meeting here in charleston around this debate down here to talk about this among other issues and they would prefer the term contested convention rather than brokered, as there might be
multiple candidates with significant chunks of delegates. i have to tell you, right now, the mood is more okay, we may have to think about this from a logistical perspective, think about all the hotels that they might need to book, they need to make sure they have enough rooms. it will be in cleveland where the cavaliers play basketball. which candidate gets the home team locker room, so to speak, where do you put the work space for these guys. those are things that the republican national committee does need to start thinking about, potentially this early as they are in the planning process where they might just not be ready for it. i have to tell you, the overall mood in the hallways at the republican meeting is one of frankly, not knowing what's going to happen next. that in some ways is what all of us are trying to figure out as we stare into actual voting days. there's definitely now an acknowledgment that there is a very real possibility that donald trump will steamroll his way to the nomination and the reality is he's the only one in that position right now. there's no other candidate that
can say plausibly we think we are going to be going into this, we will hit a few early primaries and it will be clear that we have a lock. that's a new place for the republican party to be. >> msnbc's kasie hunt reporting in south carolina. fight night for the republican side. kasie, you have a front row seat. thanks. the new hampshire contest comes eight disafter the iowa caucuses and could help to determine whether or not there is a definite nominee by convention time. jennifer horn joins me now, she's the committee chair. let me ask you about the story from the "new york times" about ted cruz and the new york bank loans. that is the kind of story that will play big with new hampshire republicans, folks that are notorious for changing their mind up until the last minute? >> well, thanks for having me, thomas. it's a pleasure to be here. new hampshire republicans, the vast majority of our voters are really just beginning to get engaged in this process right now. they are just starting to look at these candidates.
the attendance at the town halls, and the events, are growing. they are just starting to get serious about who their guy or woman will be on election day. so all of the different pieces that are starting to come into focus will certainly influence what happens on election day. >> so as we look at the latest polling that's coming out of new hampshire from nbc news, it basically has donald trump in the lead, then followed by this traffic jam of other candidates. how important, jennifer, is second place for a candidate like rubio, bush, cruz, christie, or kasich, when it comes to the granite state? >> well, traditionally we always say there are three tickets out of new hampshire but i'm going to reject the premise of your question. all candidates are in it to win it. they are fighting for first place. if the polls that i'm looking at still show undecided as the largest bloc of voters in our state and there's a path to win this, for most of the candidates that are campaigning right now on the ground in our state, so i
don't think anybody's fighting for second. i think they are all still looking at first. >> i know as you point out, it's a great distinction that they are all in it to win it, but we are looking at the different numbers coming out of iowa that then go up to new hampshire and then down south to south carolina. it remains anybody's game, but out of new hampshire, they do want their ticket punched there. >> oh, no question about it. look at what's on the calendar between now and february 9th, thomas. dozens and dozens of town halls, four nationally televised debates, a contest in the caucuses in iowa, all of those things are going to influence how this shapes up heading into election day. remember, this entire primary, you know, is about offering the american people an alternative, an alternative to the failure of democratic leadership, of barack obama, the dishonesty of hillary clinton. this is about really debating and engaging in the ideas that offer the american people a better way, a better path. that's what this primary is
really all about. it's not about any one candidate, any one campaign. it's about being able to advance these conservative principles in a way that the american people can feel heartened and engaged in them. >> time to get serious when it comes to folks in new hampshire and certainly iowa as well. new hampshire gop state chair, jennifer horn, thanks for coming on. i appreciate your time. have fun tonight there in south carolina. you have a front row seat for all the action, too. >> we are looking forward to it. it will be a good night for republicans, a good night for america. coming up next, i speak with the chair of the republican party of iowa. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...
i have a massive heart attack oright in my driveway.d the doctor put me on a bayer aspirin regimen. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore. steven avery spent 18 years in prison for something he didn't do. >> 18 years. >> 18 years. >> dna had come through indicating that he had not committed the crime. >> law enforcement officers realized that they had screwed up big-time. >> all right. like millions of others we just finished that series over the weekend on the heels of
netflix's smash hit "making a murderer" and the real life crime dramas that are grabbing headlines today, new ones like this one. alfred dewayne brown spent ten years on death row for a murder he says he didn't commit but now brown's out of prison after a string of revelations casting doubt on the charges against him. here with me, with more on this story, craig melvin and digital content editor cal perry. craig joins us live from d.c. explain the story and how it all happened. >> good evening to you. not only was dewayne brown adamant that he was innocent from the beginning, he insisted he wasn't even at the scene of those murders back in 2003. this was a very high profile case because it involved a botched robbery and the killing of a houston police officer. this officer's name was charles clark. he was killed along with a cashier. there was no forensic evidence, there was no surveillance footage. brown maintained that he was actually at his girlfriend's apartment and had called to
check on her when he saw the coverage of the killings on television. proof of that call could have been an alibi. problem was, no one could find the record of the call back then. his then girlfriend initially corroborates the story but according to grand jury testimony made public by brown's attorneys, and quoted in the houston chronicle, the girlfriend was pressured by prosecutors. she was eventually charged with perjury. she would spend several months in jail. she was only released when she changed her story sheech. she admitted she had to make a choice between dewayne brown and her child, whom she missed. one of the other two guys convicted in the killings said brown was involved. that guy got a plea deal and that of course was enough to seal brown's fate. he was sentenced to die in a state where executions happen more frequently than any other state in the union. and like many death row inmates in texas, this is where brown would spend 23 hours every day. he would spend it in a tiny
cell. he was allowed to leave that cell for 60 minutes every day to exercise, walk around the yard with another -- with other death row inmates. 2007 he gets a new attorney. the new attorney declares that he knew in his gut after his first meeting that his client was innocent. fast forward to 2014, they discovered the missing phone record that i mentioned a little while ago. it was actually buried in a box of papers in a police detective's garage. heretofor, no plausible explanation about how it got there. that would be enough for the d.a., brown walked out of prison june 8th last year. i spent some time with him here in d.c. last night at the washington wizards game. he toi he continues to scratch things off his bucket list. it was his first nba game, also his first tv interview since his release. >> the hard part about being on death row is when you be talking to a guy, not knowing that he
have an execution date and you get close to him, like just sharing different things, artwork, whatever it is y'all be talking about, and y'all get close, and next thing you know guards come knock on the door and they tell him pack up. >> we have friends that would get executed while he was also on death row. another thing that was very difficult for him, when he got out, we should say here, thomas, these things. he said when he went in in 2003, flipphones were just starting to get cameras attached to them and he said everyone is walking around with these mini computers in their hands. he has a very difficult time operating a cell phone but he said that's a problem that he welcomes. he's learning how the use social media right now. we should also note here that the houston chief of police still believes that brown committed the crime and the case to a certain extent is still under investigation. >> be wow. all right. craig melvin, thank you so much for the details of all of that.
i want to bring in msnbc senior editor for video and digital content, cal perry. we are talking about the brown case while so many talking abou case while so many at home are streaming the netflix show "making a murderer" that chronicles the life of a guy put behind bars for 18 years, that he didn't commit that crime, but allegedly convicted of another crime. i don't want to ruin it for viewers. >> and it highlights cases like this. it brings cases like this more into mainstream media. like a social moment. as you alluded to, people are obsessed with it because it's about the criminal justice system, and socioeconomic. we heard the president speak about this at the state of the union, that the criminal justice system needs a major overhaul. the defense attorneys in this show, they talk about the
presumption of innocence. it wasn't given to steven avery on either of these two crimes, and now he's been charged with murder. and they maintain that he was never given that presums of innocence. that his status in the community is what forced him into this position. >> it was pretty tainted in that wisconsin community when it comes to the avery case. obviously with the brown situation, it's much different. we can't talk too much about making a murderer and give too much away to folks who are trying to watch that as we speak. i want to move on to this next story. breaking news. a report about the identity of one of the membn believed to be involved in the paris terrorist attacks two months ago. a 25-year-old belgian moroccan man is the suicide bomber who exploded and killed himself noefr 18th that happened at the police raid in the paris suburb
of san denis. matched with his mom, apparently. the suspected ringleader die in that same raid along with abboud's cousin. you may remember she was initially believed to have been detonated or believed to have detonated her own suicide vest. urgent diarrhea. now there's prescription xifaxan. xifaxan is a new ibs-d treatment that helps relieve your diarrhea and abdominal pain symptoms. and xifaxan works differently. it's a prescription antibiotic that acts mainly in the digestive tract. do not use xifaxan if you have a history of sensitivity to rifaximin, rifamycin antibiotic agents, or any components of xifaxan. tell your doctor right away if your diarrhea worsens while taking xifaxan, as this may be a sign of a serious or even fatal condition.
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to action for communities everywhere. i want to bring in tremayne lee in atlanta. helps people get the financial dignity they're looking for and need. >> the mission is huge. the idea of using capital im. it's about banking in underserved communities. how do you create ib roads for development and innovation. perhaps there's an entrepreneur who has goods to sell but they don't have a distribution network. what this conference is about, they've done it for a number of years now is put people in the room, put big money, put the heads of businesses and corporations together with those who actually work on the ground to deliver goods and services. those who are on the front lines in cities all across this country trying to empower those who so often have been left voiceless by the machinery of our capitalism.
>> putting that network together and those two sides together and making it happen. thank you very much, msnbc's trymaine lee, appreciate it. hope's annual conference. we'll be streaming it on msnbc.m ko. a lot of hope there in operation hope. >> a few minutes from that. hillary clinton's lead in iowa shrinks to only two points over bernie sanders in a new poll. we'll break down the chances of hillary clinton and bernie sanders neck and neck in iowa.
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theand the kids always eat sky their vegetables.e. because the salad there is always served with the original hidden valley ranch. her long day as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks. for me... it's aleve. good afternoon. i'm thomas roberts. we begin this hour with the gop political fight night preview and everyone looking for winners in south carolina at the republican debate. only seven candidates made the cutoff for the sixth debate and this comes after multiple attacks on one of the front-runners ted cruz. there are trump's attacks about
his eligibility to run concerning his citizenship. and now "the l.a. times" is reporting that cruz's campaign failed to report a pair of loans from goldman sachs and citibank failure to report them to the fec. trump and cruz have differing opinions about the importance of that story. >> but i hear it's a very big thing. i hope he solves it. i think he's a nice guy and i hope he gets that solved. i hope that's not a big problem for him. >> those loans have been disclosed over and over and over again on multiple filings, but all the information has been public and transparent for many years, and that's the end of ta. >> the new controversies come as senator cruz has finally taken the attack to donald trump trying to tar him somewhat coincidentally as having new york values. asked about the attack by bloomberg politics, mark halperson and john hileman, this is how donald trump responded. >> in new york we took a big hit with the world trade center.
worst attack ever in the united states. worse than pearl harbor because they attacked civilians. they attacked people having breakfast. and frankly, you know, if you would have been there and if you would have lived through that like i did with new york people, the bway they handled that attak was one of the most incredible things that anybody has ever seen. >> so we have four reports now previewing tonight's big debate. i want to start with katy tur in south carolina. we know that donald trump is riding high nationally and in new hampshire, but the big fight is for iowa right now. and that's where ted cruz is leading. describe the strategy that you might be hearing from the trump campaign about his approach tonight? >> well, the trump campaign is doing the same ad buy they did last week, continuing to saturate the airwaves and radio waves why voters should pick trump over the other candidates. what they're doing is they're questioning ted cruz at every chance they get, at every single
rally you go to donald trump brings up the issue of ted cruz's canadian birth saying he doesn't know how it's going to play out but it certainly is a big problem for him and one he needs to get fixed. by doing that over and over again he's trying to sow the seed of doubt in voters' minds that cruz isn't a shoo-in. that haddy will find legal challenges. he wants voters to think that ted cruz isn't a sure bet. he'll bring up the loan stuff talking about how ted cruz is a problem there, how these filings were a big vsh for ted cruz. because cruz is trying to paint himself as a populist that's against big banks yet taking a loan from goldman sachs which is at its core a very big bank. so donald trump is going to try to hit him on that. it's interesting especially coming from trump who is a billionaire who lives in a skyscraper in manhattan. we'll see how it plays out.
>> trump comes out owning that, ted cruz has taken a different approach. katy tur, thanks so much. for more from the cruz campaign, we'll check in with hallie jackson. you spent an epic amount of time traveling with the cruz campaign and all threw iowa. >> yes. >> this is not the type of message he wanted to take to those folks because he is anti-establishment. these loans really put him in lock step with goldman sachs and citibank and those new york values he's trying to paint trump with. >> the campaign will make the argument that, sure, ted cruz is harvard educated, princeton educated guy, very intelligent, has ties to the northeast but what he's done is brought that back to the conservative base, back to the grassroots, somebody who went to washington, sure, but didn't get wrapped up and as somebody said to me didn't drink the kool-aid that other washington insiders did. look for cruz to pivot in that
direction. i believe that the cruz campaign will be waiting for the right opportunity to make that turn tonight on this big national stage, really the first time that these guys have had such a big moment in front of a national audience since cruz and trump began to really go neck and neck in iowa and cruz in fact pulling ahead of him there. look for cruz to wait for that moment to turn and then hit trump as he's been doing these last maybe 48 to 72 hours. if that moment doesn't happen, i wonder if ted cruz will really turn the guns on trump just given that the two of them are trying to go after the same kind of voter. >> we'll see how it plays out tonight. hallie jackson, great to see you, thank you. a lot of people think about whether or not there's gooding to be a clear winner come july. the associated press reporting that republican party officials are beginning to prep for the eventually that he could have a brokered convention on their hands and it is something that hasn't happened in decades. kacie hunt, they would not like
to call it a brokered convention. they have a different term. sman what might happen. >> they prefer to call it a contested convention where you'd have a couple people coming in with potentially large masses of delegates, but not enough to actually carry the day. and in that case you potentially have all kinds of deal making scenarios, but you're right, this is something that political reporters like me leak to talk about every four years because it would be such a great story. that said, it is more of a possibility this year than we've seen in many decades. and the republican party officials who i talked to say it would be irresponsible for them to at least not think through exactly how that might potentially go. think about all the things that a party nominee makes decisions about, who to speak, what the priorities are going to be, the entire lineup. the campaign essentially takes over the planning of the entire convention. and if there isn't somebody doing that, the rnc will step in and do it themselves. i have to tell you the one thing
about republican officials meeting here in charleston around this debate and they're having conversations about how this is going to play out. this is the first time -- and i've covered dozens of these types of meetings -- where the trump phenomenon seems very real. the discussion in the hallway is suddenly, wow, what are we going to do if this actually happens? how does the party proceed forward? that's a new stage from where they were before when everybody was convinced that we'd hit a moment when everybody said this is all going to implode and fall apart. obviously we have to wait for the voters to decide. but there are a lot of republicans out there who are getting ready to be working for a donald trump for president campaign. >> look at pensacola as an example last night, the rally he held there, a packed house. kacie hunt, thank you very much. tonight, don't miss out on chris matthews and his post debate analysis that will begin at 11:00 p.m. eastern time.
i want to check out the democratic side of the race with bernie sanders and hillary clinton. we have a brand-new ad out from sanders and it takes square aim at hillary clinton. >> there are two democrat visions for regulating wall street. one says it's okay to take millions from big banks and then tell them what to do. my plan, break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes, and make them pay their fair share. >> this comes as all three democratic candidates get ready to square off on sunday in a debate hosted by nbc. a new iowa poll showing the two top candidates in a dead heat. don't forget governor o'malley from maryland will be on the stage, too. steve kornacki, take us through the numbers. >> first of all, this is not just any poll. this the des moines register poll. it gets it right in iowa more than anyone else. you got hillary clinton in a new poll out today up over sanders.
one thing to notice is the number of undecided voters that's jumped by 6 points since the last time they took this poll. the support hillary clinton has has dropped by 6 points. some people have moved from hillary clinton. they're now undecided. can sanders get them to come all the way over to him? let's take you through a few different numbers here. when you look at independents and they can actually participate, they need to show up and fill out a card they're actually democrats and then they can participate. bernie sanders is crushing hillary clinton. he's ahead by more than 40 points with them. those who are under the age of 45, younger voter, a dominating lead for bernie sanders, more than 2-1 over hillary clinton. then if you look at people who have never gone to one of these caucuses before. different than the primary. you got to sit there for a few hours. you got to participate. bernie sanders leads with the voters who haven't done that before by almost 20 points.
if you add that together, thomas, what you have there, those are the ingredients that powered barack obama in 2008. the question is could he turn those voters out. the question c he turn the same voters out? >> the perfect storm, we're waiting to see how it all storm. steve kornacki, thank you, sir. a programming note about this evening and the rachel maddow show. her interview with hillary clinton is this evening at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. just that reminder again, democrats take the turn on their debate stage all three of them 9:00 p.m. on nbc. to the shattered dreams of many americans and the lucky three powerball winners. a live conference where one of those being presented with a check. all the stores get a little bit of a cut of the money. you heard this before. the stores get a little green
after they sold the winning ticket. there were these three winning tickets sold at last night's powerball drawing. the largest lottery jackpot ever. there are the numbers. the powerball being ten. the three winning tickets being sold in california, tennessee and florida. we have correspondents where one of the winning tickets were sold. we still discuss the legal matters related to such a huge windfall because there might be some complications. outside that 7-eleven where we're seeing the owner being presented with his chuck. what is his cut? >> it's not a little bit of green. i consider a million dollar check quite a bit amount of green. and that's what he's going to receive right now. you can actually see him receiving that check behind me. i spoke to him very early about 1:00 a.m. pacific time he said, look, the people who visit my store are family. they're frequent customers.
this is exactly what we wanted to see here. people have been streaming into this 7-eleven into the wee hours just to see where this happened, where this winning ticket was sold. we also just heard from a lottery official that $386 million worth of powerball money was sold all throughout the state of california and the californians who did not win the jack pot, save that powerball ten and they got about $638,000 each. it's a big day with lots of luck here in california, although we still don't know who these winners are. unfortunately, we're waiting for them to identify themselves. and in california it is against the law not to come forward and to remain anonymous. >> but they don't have to come to that 7-eleven. >> i'm waiting here hoping that they come to the 7-eleven. >> i can imagine. look at that a million dollar check. i think we have better odds if we opened a convenience store
and sold powerball tickets to folks. i want to bring in our colleague msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber. cash brings trouble. cash brings trouble and cash can bring lawyers. if anyone thinks cash is up for grabs. one of our affiliates put out advice especially if you do an office pool. have a contract, decide on whether you're going to do the lump sum or annuity. you don't want to be in court about that and everyone should get a copy of the tickets. this is a fun time around the country as people get in on it. what's more fun than writing a contract at work? >> signing one. >> that was a trick question. look, i'll tell you, there's the lawyer's side, and then there's let's be real. i don't think it's realistic to advise people to set up a legally binding contract before an office pool. i don't think that's the kind of advice that's useful. don't worry about a contract,
don't worry about a lawyer, if you a pooling for anything, at least write it down. you can send an e-mail on an e-mail list and say just so we agree, bob's buying the tickets, we're all going to split it equal. that will help you if you want and easier than calling a lawyer for money you haven't won yet. >> our powerball maven is pam. our big thanks to pam. we won 19 bucks. we're all here. >> did you get her to sign anything? >> we had her sign, we initialled. we're like legal eagles downstairs. we've been asking you to weigh in on the pulse question about the powerball frenzy. would you go to work if you won the jackpot? the response 45% say yes, 55% say no. we won 19 bucks. i'm here. keep that conversation going.
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secretary of state john kerry joined the chorus of world leaders who have condemned today's orchestrated terrorist attack in indonesia. my colleague back with details of the attack. >> this is a time when isis has claimed responsibility. in a statement the terrorist organization praised the, quote, soldiers who they said planted several time bombs around the busy shopping district in jakarta. the indonesian government says a suicide bomber set off his bomb first and that was followed by two explosions. the sites attacked include a starbucks where locals and westerners gather and also a police booth in the middle of the roadway. police forces responded to the scene and engaged the militants in a gun battle. that siege was over in four hours. two civilians were killed including a canadian national. two people and five police
officers were injured. authorities say all five terrorists were killed. keep in mind, this is the first major attack since the july 2009 suicide bombings at the j.w. marriott. isis says the attack was intended to teach, quote, citizens of the crusader alliance who fight the islamic state. >> we'll look for more details to come it of this, but the worldwide condemnation, we keep hearing it. we're one step closer -- get this -- as technology advances to the real possibility of driverless cars on the nation's highways. could that be a reality shortly? we'll tell you after the break. a rare winter hurricane has formed in the atlantic off the coast of the azores a chain 800 miles off the coast of portugal. no threat to the u.s. but the last storm to form in the atlanta was in 1938.
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all right. take a look at this. have you seen cars like these on the roads? all right. so the chances are you probably haven't. that's because driverless cars like these are still in the testing mode for the most part and there's no broad legal framework for how they're going to be regulated. just a scattering of local laws in a few states. but today a really strong show of support from the obama administration as it announces a commitment of almost $4 billion to the development of autonomous vehicles. andrew hop kins is the transportation reporter for the verge.com and he joins me now. good to have you here. just explain are we really that close to having this type of technology on the roads? or is the $4 billion going to get us there? >> it's probably a little bit of both. a lot of experts say within five to six to seven years that we can see these vebs on the road
in large number. you've got google, gm, ford all working to bring their own driverless cars to the road and into some sort of testing phase. and the announcement from the obama administration will really have a big helping hand to that. there's two big takeaways about. the money, 4 billion over ten years and then the acknowledgment from the white house ta they would support fully driverless cars. you beck at home and use your smartphone to summon a car with no driver in it to your front door to take you wherever you needed to go. >> what if that car turns on you and doesn't want to take you to where you want to go? >> the terminator scenario. >> if you have control issues like myself. it's bad enough if you don't trust the uber folks and they get a bad rating, but a driverless car coming? >> google in particular has a failsafe method where you can hit a button and take over the vehicle. a lot of the other prototypes that we'll see coming out of some of the other major automakers -- if you think about
tesla, it has an auto pilot feature in the model they just released, the model x vehicle. it didn't have to go through any sort of regulatory oversight or approval from the government. they were able to have a software update and the tesla is able to have this auto pilot. >> what's the price of that model, hothough? >> a lot. in the 50 grand range. >> we'll see where this goes. i think a lot of us, jen-x-ers and above into have to wrap our heads around it. >> a brand-new world. >> andrew hawkins with the verge. we have this story with jetblue. there's a power outage causing problems for that airline. they tweeted out, quote, we're experiencing interin ittent network issues due to a data center power outage. we're working to resolve that outage now. here's a vote at laguardia. long lines outside long beach international airport in california. a look at jetblue on airline tracking website flight aware
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welcome back, everybody. just received the surveillance video of the shooting death of cedric chapman. chapman, as you may recall, was shot and killed by a chicago police officer. the judge ordered the release of the video. it comes one day after the city dropped its opposition to making the video public. they said they thought that chapman had a gun and the officer was in fear of his life. the family said he wasn't armed and the individual will show that. they explained what people will come away with when you see it for themselves. >> what you'll come away with, you'll see a young kid running away from the police in broad daylight and he is shot and killed. >> the independent police review authority found the officer was
justified in that shooting. we've got the latest from chicago. the legal ramifications on this release. nbc's john yang is going to join me from chicago on this. do we know the video itself, what it is expected to depict? >> well, i've seen there are three different cameras that were released, thomas. i've seen two of them. one, the most -- i mean, none of them are very conclusive. none are really sort of telling in the same way that the laquan mcdonald videotape was. the one that i've seen the most is from one of those observation agsal police cameras, one of those glass globes you see hanging over an intersection. the camera shifts from street to street periodically. you can see the car that chapman is in stopping at the intersection. you see them getting out of the -- chapman getting out. he's being chased. the officer is very close behind
him. that officer, you can see there, in the street, in the intersection i believe based on the description of the lawyers, the family lawyers to me is lou toth, the officer who did not fire. that in the sort of lower corner -- let's see if we can see it again. i've got a little delay on my return monitor here. but you really can't see the key moment that is in question. the officers say that chapman turned or started to turn toward the officers and pointed an object in his hands toward the officer, and that's why he fired. that takes place out of frame of this shot that you're looking at now. and then when the camera shifts to look down that street, you see the policeman over chapman, what i believe to be or what based on the description that the family lawyers made at the news conference, the police officer over chapman's body
already down on the ground. you don't see the moment whether or not chapman turned toward the officers, whether or not chapman pointed something at the officer and you don't see the moment where chapman is shot. >> john stand by for me. ari melber, you're looking at this. and we know there was a reversal by the city, their opposition to have this released. >> that's right. this is brand-new video we're looking at. it is difficult as john was saying. but i just want to speak to it. as john mentioned, this is the kind of automatically turning camera. that's not, as we understand it, any human action. this camera was automatically pivoting. that's why you get that jump the officer is moving in the lower third of the frame moving to the right. his gun is drawn, but we don't have information that he indeed shot. but you see him. then that black object you see about a few inches to the right of the orange awning, that is,
what we believe to be the decedent would be the formal term, the young man, 17-year-old cedric chapman who was shot and killed that day although we cannot necessarily see the shooter. this is brand-new video. we just reviewed in our newsroom that shows those final moments. shot there by police in the daylight pursuant to what they say was a, a carjacking and b, they believed he posed a deadly threat based on their mistaken view that he was holding a firea firearm. i want to walk us through what we're looking at, what it's new and significant. for those of us watching and saying, huh, not sure that that clarifies anything, that may be, but this is something that the chicago city and police had fought for two years now to avoid releasing. now we finally have it. what we see in regard to the shooting itself is somewhat inconclusive at least from this camera angle. >> an this involves officer
kevin fry and his partner lou toth who were responding to this carjacking. 17-year-old cedric chapman's vehicle matched that of the stolen vehicle. i want to ask joe here on set with me from john jay criminal college. as you think about what the police are characterizing this as and you look at this video, joe. is it -- okay. so this is seconds after it happened. this is the video we're looking at right now. from what you saw from the cop on the corner and the camera turning, is it acceptable or fair to say that this is somehow justified? >> well, you look at this video and it's so -- it's even a little grainy plus he's also turning right into the sun. it's very difficult to see. from the officer's perspective, he's going to say that he turned towards me but the medical reports should be able to confirm that for us. >> but there has been an issue
of -- we can see now first responders on the scene in this video clip now. but an issue of problems within chicago and its police department, whether covering up or trying not to tell all the details about certain scenarios of police shooting deaths. >> right. >> so does this play into that narrative? >> it has to. i mean, you watch this video and you say, why didn't they want to release this? this might be something that's pretty pandemic through the chicago police department where they don't want this released because they don't want bad publicity. they've got to get out in front of this. put any bad video they think they have and put it out there. you can't think transparency on the day the judge tells you to release it. >> the family has filed this wrong ft death lawsuit. there were not charges filed against the officers. >> that is correct. it is interesting that at the end of the internal review
process, the internal police department that reviews these things cleared the officers and that's been an area of some controversy. but we should note there are two lawsuits, the one you just mentioned, the wrongful death suit from the family member and a wrongful termination suit from a chicago officer who was fired because when he was working in that very internal review department on this case among others, he put forward that there might have been wrong doing, there might have been disciplinary action. that conclusion wasn't held and not based on this new video but was based on the totality of their review. we get a new video like this, obviously to some degree a bigger news story because rahm emanuel and the city of chicago fought so hard to have it held secret. but this is thot the only piece of evidence. the other evidence, of course, you see on the scene. and we can show it potentially eventually a fire truck pulls up and folks gather around the 17-year-old's body and then he's pronounced dead later. what we found was that he wasn't
actually holding a weapon, that it is broad daylight. that cuts both ways. the police would say, yeah, broad daylight, lots of people around. if he's armed and there's a carjacking, he's a threat. on the other hand, you can see broad daylight, he's far away. did he pose the kind of imminent threat to justify deadly force? those are the questions here. >> joe, let me ask you because this is an issue with chicago because of the december 2014 incident with laquan mcdonald that is called into trust the integrity of the emanuel administration, this police department, this happening in 2013. how can chicago course correct about you reap what you sow? and now we're looking at living through what this city has been dealing with in a completely different lens. >> sure. i mean, the police department has some major issues here. and so does the emanuel -- he's got a lot of problems here. this is what the issue is. the police training that goes on in chicago about firearms use has to be looked at with a fine
tooth comb. isolate and contain, cover and concealment. when you're in broad daylight and you have the opportunity to take cover behind whatever kind of vehicle, you take all the time necessary. because that's what helps you make that split second decision if this person should be shot or not. i know he was mentioning that the fleeing felon rule. i mean, i don't even see the fleeing felon room coming into play. they could have held off on it if they took the proper tactics to make sure that they were able to get that extra couple of seconds that they need eed befo they needed to fire their guns. >> we're working on new video angles that are coming in. we'll have those turned around. ari, you wanted to say? >> mentioned the fleeing felon rule. this is the point that just because someone may be a criminal or even a fugitive does not mean that under the rules, that means they should face consequences, but that doesn't mean they face the consequence of shooting to kill or execution
in the street, right? that's the subtle distinction that can get lost. what is going to be fought over in this video that you're looking at and you see the officer question there in the lower part of the screen and the dark sort of dark object that looks like could or could not be a person to the right of the orange awning, that we believe is mr. chapman who fell and was killed. but the question isn't simply what did the officers think or what was the potential danger. the legal question is what you see on this video and other information we're obtaining in our newsroom as we speak, do you see the justification for deadly force as presented by a threat by this individual. you can chime in. as a policing subject, what else could police have done short of using that deadly force? >> well, listen, they're out on the street, you're out in the open. you're going to have to chase this guy down. this is what the police do every day. we're taught we have a variety of weapons that are at our disposal. when you're in broad daylight
and on a street like this, it's a commercial area. you have to be very careful about firing your gun because what happens is you can hit innocent people, too. so here's where some hesitation, here's where they had a chance to be able to take some cover and be able to assess the situation me might be better off. >> and in this situation, too, the excuse given for this demonstration of force is the police officer saying they are in fear of their life. that's how they characterized it also feeling that they felt chapman had a weapon. is that just a blanket way for a cop to get out of a killing incident? just say i was in fear of my life? so i opened fire. >> that's the standard line that everybody will be using. but the problem is this officer doesn't put himself in any other position other than to say that he had a fear for his life. he doesn't take any steps in order to prevent this fatal shooting. and this is what we've done here in new york city. we've done it -- and it's been done in other places. they need to look at even the firearms they use, maybe a heavy
trigger so it's not so easy to pull the trigger. you have that extra split second. in new york city we have a 12 pound trigger. guns come out of the factory at 3 pounds. that's a big difference. >> i think your mike is down right now. i'll give you the last word. >> yeah, the only other thing that's notable here is we think about the police perspective, correctly mentioning that they've invoked a threat to life. there are claims, we fwho this because of the lawsuits, there are claims and defenses by police that mr. chapman was not only holding some sort of case, that i believed turned out to be an iphone case, but essentially a small box but he stopped and held it up in a manner that they thought was a gun and was threatening. now, i don't think the lawyers would say is this video des positive. no, i don't think this video answers this question, but it doesn't seem to help that police
claim. in laquan mcdonald the police claim was he lunged with a knife. the video didn't show that at all. here it's an open question, but doesn't seem that he's stopped and waving around a box, at least when we can see in the new video. >> i want to say thank you, sir. when we get those new angles, we'll bring them to you. this developing news about the u.s. navy sailors that were released after being detained in iran they misnav dpated jim miklaszewski is live at the pentagon. what more did we learn from ash carter? >> secretary carter was giving an interview to the spanish network univision down in florida where he's at centcom and will hold a news conference later today. and in that interview he said that the sailors themselves in interviews with their commanders acknowledge that they had, according to -- the word that secretary carter used was misnavigated. that they had accidentally
strayed into the territorial waters around farsi island, the iranian island there in the persian gulf, and that they had misnavigated, somehow made a mistake in their navigation. now what the secretary also points out, that at no time even though officials here say those two riverine boats with the ten sailors aboard were miles and miles off their intended course, they never made any attempt to radio other navy personnel even ashore or at sea to indicate that they were in territorial waters. now, in iranian territorial waters. now an interesting observation. when the interviewer asked secretary carter about that jarring interview of all ten sailors on board their boat on their knees, hands clasped behind their head while having guns pointed at them by their iranian captors, he did say that it is not out of the norm for a
country to board another boat in their own territorial waters. however, he did say -- and these are his words, i don't like to see our guys in custody of somebody else. now, he did say that, naturally, it's something the u.s. would not have done in any kind of boarding, but the headline here is that this was obviously a mistake by the crew, which we have reported a couple of days ago, actually, because there were no indication of mechanical error at the time that the boat strayed into the waters, thomas. >> jim miklaszewski reporting at the pentagon for us. it was earlier today supporters and residents of flint, michigan, rallied outside the state capitol in lansing, this after the water crisis in flint seems to have taken a devastating turn. they report a spike in legionnaire's disease in the county where flint is located.
in the cases reported between june of 2014 and 2015, ten people have died. it's not clear if the outbreak is related to the water crisis which have left high levels of lead in. flint switched to drinking local river water. two months later in june, that's when the outbreak began. i'm joined by michigan senator debbie stabenow. your reaction to the possibility that the water crisis for flint could be even more potentially harmful than originally thought? >> thomas, first, let me say thank you for focusing on this. thank you to rachel, the entire msnbc team has been incredible in lifting up this story and advocating for people. this is another blow. we don't know if it's officially connected, but it's certainly of grave concern. the whole thing is outrageous
when you look from start to finish. now they're talking about shutting off people's water for not paying bills on water that they were getting that was poisoning them. from my standpoint, the state response is so far late i don't even have a word for it. but they need to be stepping in incredibly aggressively right now to make sure that people are getting the water they need. now people can't even shower. they haven't even fixed the quality of the water yet. and i'm deeply concerned about what's happening to children. dr. mona brought to me the fact that wic moms were having to mix baby formula with this water. i couldn't believe it. so i reached out to the department of agriculture. we made it clear we'll provide whatever dollar are needed for ready-to-feed formula. but not the sense of urgency to make sure that moms know this. one thing after another. i find it absolutely shocking. >> what about the governor's role in all of this, rick snyder? because it was under his
administration that they sold off those water rights, not taking water from detroit and then going with the local water through the river. >> right, right. >> this led to the high levels of lead in the water, and then they wouldn't listen to dr. mona who you referenced who brought up the problems. >> right, right. >> that was tested and found to be so dangerous. >> first of all, all roads lead back to governor snyder and the state legislature without a doubt. the people in michigan rejected a law called an emergency manager that would take away the authority of a local unit of government elected officials and put in somebody elected by the governor, after the people of michigan voted it down, the state legislature went back and changed a few words, passed it again. then the governor appoints somebody to usurp the council to save a few million dollars from going from the world's best water source, the great lakes, to one of the worst in the country that gm decided not to
use because it was corroding the parts on their automobiles. and so -- and then here the thing that just -- why i get so upset at every point when the state is doing something, they finally agree to rehook up the water. they don't even pay for the full hook-up. they may the foundation which helps to fund children's health care and education efforts fund part of it and the city of flint take their last $2 million so the state, who did all of this, will only pay for half the cost of rehooking it up and the community and the charities and the community are left holding the bag. it's stunning. >> yeah, we're just looking at the water that's coming out of a local tap there and what everybody has been forced to live through, especially this has been terrible for kids and we really appreciate you making time for us. michigan senator, one of them, debbie stabenow. >> thank you. i want to check in with
francis rivera for a check on our latest response on a lighter note about the big deal over powerball. >> a conversation a lot of us have been having leading up to this. now there are three winners. we ask you what would you do if you won? would you go to work if you won the powerball jackpot? this isn't too surprising here. it's pretty much stay the same. 48% of our viewers are saying, yes, they would go to work. 52% said, no, i'm staying home. you kind of want to align everything, get your lawyer intact. you want to go fly under the radar a little bit before the cameras start, all your friend, family start wanting a piece of that, right? >> yes. >> not too surprising that you want to play it on the downlow when you get everything in order. >> should i be looking -- you think there's a suspicious winner behind us? >> no, we have our $19 that our office pool won. >> we're going to reinvest that in the next powerball. >> don't spend it all in one
place, that $19. this is something that really took a lot of people be surprise today. the sad news about alan rickman's passing. so which movie is your favorite? what a diverse body of work he had. that's been the subject of much debate in our newsroom today about favorite film. when we come back, a closer look at his incredible career. >> 10:30 tonight. 10:45. and bring a friend. choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. yep... another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap.
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so really sad news to pass along from the world of entertainment. we have british actor alan rickman passing away at the age of 69 from cancer. his breakout role terrorist hans gruber in "die hard" with bruce willis. he's known to many a harry potter fan as professor snape. >> if anyone in here has any
knowledge of mr. potter's movements this evening, i invite them to step forward. now. >> he's an intimidating fella. some other films include "sense & sensibility," robin hood prince of thieves and he has a golden globe and primetime emmy. i want to bring in an entertainment columnist for media. you wrote about rickman's passing saying that he'd become a beloved actor by playing villains, although snape, i don't want to ruin it for folks who haven't gotten through the series, he's not that bad of a guy after all. >> i was thinking more along the lines of hans gruber. >> yeah. >> if you grew up when we grew up, we're about the same age, 35, 34. >> 32. >> i'm somewhat older. die hard, the terrorist in an
armani suit. and the great dialogue that he would have between him and bruce willis all over a cb. now what made it effective? his voice, the most unique voice in cinema in a long time. you put him right up there with orson welles, sean connery, it was the voice that we'll remember alan rickman for frmg the scope of his work. he played villains, he was very memorable, but he also had other roles from "love actually," "sense & sensibility." he did pick unique roles that changed how folks looked at him as not being the bad guy everywhere. >> one of the great christmas movies up there with "die hard." he had range because he was a stage actor first. but people don't know that "die hard" was his first film ever. he moved to los angeles, saw the script and said, i'm not doing this, this is an action movie. they convinced the director because they wanted to put him in terrorist garb.
no, no, i want to be in a suit. please change it. they do. and bruce willis has his career to thank because alan rickman made the "die hard" the movie that it was. >> 69, so young, suffering from cancer. and at the same time david bowie's passing. >> natalie cole. >> she was only 65, i believe. so young. >> average life expectancy for a british male is 82 years old. so 69 when people say he's too young, he really is too young. >> appreciate your time. i appreciate all of your time at home. thanks for watching. we'll see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern. be sure to watch tonight, 9:00 p.m. eastern or set your dvr. hillary clinton sitting down one on one with rachel maddow. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships,
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at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like working from home equals not working. numbers look pretty good, how's it on your end dave? oh, the numbers look so good. dave, dave's on it. my man, lemme guess who you're wearing... everyone's lookin' red carpet ready. toenail fungus!? whaaat?!? fight it! with jublia. jublia is a prescription medicine... ...used to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. jublia is workin' it! most common side effects include... ...ingrown toenail, application site redness,... ...itching, swelling, burning... ...or stinging, blisters, and pain. oh!! fight it! with jublia! now that's a red carpet moment! ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. hi, everyone, i'm kate snow and we're going to begin this hour with breaking news out of
chicago. video has just been released in the fatal shooting of 17-year-old cedric chapman by a chicago police officer. he was shot and killed back in january of 2013 while police were responding to reports of a carjacking. police have said they thought chapman had a gun, and the officer was in fear of his life. the independent police review authority in chicago found the officer was justified in the shooting. chapman's family says the video will prove he was not armed. the release of this first video comes after the city dropped its opposition to making video public overnight. let's turn to nbc's john yang out in chicago. as i understand it, this is the first of several cameras and vantage points that we will see. >> we have in hand three videos, three angles of this, kate, two from security cameras, one from a city observation camera, those globes you see hanging over street intersections. the third one, which