tv With All Due Respect MSNBC January 14, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm PST
that one could hit. >> it's a new message at least. this is a trump is mean to people with disabilities. bush usually is terrible at using that in debates. >> conventional wisdom is wrong. we're leading by double digits because they haven't gone after him. >> we'll be back tomorrow. >> previously on the debates. >> first of all, rand paul shouldn't even be on this stage. you know, you started off over here, jeb. you're moving over further and further. pretty soon you're going to be off the end. if you don't like it, i'm sorry. >> happy return of cavuto day.
tonight the presidential grad laters or suiting up for a clash here. drum up the suspense is a new nbc national poll that shows donald trump at 33%, ted cruz at 20, marco rubio at 13 and ben carson at 12. all the others you can count them on one hand. two-thirds of republicans say they can see themselves voting for trump, roughly three times the number who said that back in march. that's great news for trump, but if you strip away every candidate except trump and cruz, cruz wins, 51/43. one topic that might come up tonight is a "new york times" story that says cruz did not disclose personal loans from two major banks, one of them the dreaded goldman sachs where his wife works when cruz ran for senate in 2012. last night after a rally in pensacola, florida, we asked
trump about this brand new issue. >> big story in the "new york times" about ted cruz and his not having reported properly a loan he got in a senate campaign from goldman sachs. are you concerned about that? do you think voters should be? >> well, i heard it's a big thing. i know nothing about it. i hear it's a very big thing. i hope he solves it. i think he's a nice guy and i hope he gets it solved. >> we haven't seen cruz respond yet, but a spokeswoman, alice stewart said today on msnbc that the sugar daddy issue would not be a problem and then she used the opportunity to slam trump for being a birther. >> here's the thing that's getting under donald trump's skin is that all of these attacks that he continues to launch against ted cruz, they're not working. it's been questioned by donald trump who, as we say, is used to winning and is not winning at this point. he's clearly trying to muddy the waters and show distractions from the fact that ted cruz is connecting with the people of iowa.
>> mark, everyone tonight expecting this to be a big clash between these two titans, trump and cruz. who do you think is likely to take the first swing? >> i think if one of them does it will be cruz. the moderators will probably not give them the opportunity. cruz has been aggressive in the last 72 hours going after trump. in our discussion with trump last night he took a little shot on the goldman sachs thing but he was hesitant to go particularly negative against cruz. i think he would be happy coming out of this debate with a draw. i think cruz is a little more the aggressor and more likely to go negative. >> it's easy to see how this is going to play out. the moderators will ask cruz about his canadian birth. they will point out that trump is driving this issue. the ball will be placed on the tee and cruz will be forced to swing at it. i thought the body language last night around trump suggested that he was holding back last night in anticipation of this event and when it transpires, he
will pop cruz on the noggin. >> we've had plenty of back and forth between the candidates. we have not seen a full-on cruz/trump engagement. if we do tonight, given their standing in the race, it would be probably the biggest thing to happen in the debates with the exception of when jeb bush swung and missed against rubio. >> people have taken those swings and they have failed with the exception of carly fiorina at that debate in simi valley. a lot of mistakes here for ted cruz given that he's starting to lose altitude in our polling and others. >> they say they're friends. people say that in politics all the time. do you think they like each other? >> i do not whatsoever. >> that could have an impact here. now to the establishment lane where four candidates are vying to be the alternative to trump and cruz. those four are jeb bush, marco rubio, chris christie and john kasich. they all have some real
problems. let's start with bush. he released a new tv ad in new
hampshire today. >> i got to get this off my chest. donald trump is a jerk. donald trump facing criticism for something he did on the campaign trail last night in south carolina. he appeared to mock a reporter with a disability. >> you got to see this guy, i don't know what i said, i don't remember. >> i have a 12-year-old son who's handicapped. he has sbreeb bral palsy and i told my wife i can't let that stand and make sure donald trump wasn't the nominee for the. party. >> what is the challenge for jeb bush tonight? >> i've been saying that he has to pull a lazarus and raise himself from the dead. his attempts to become the anti-trump have largely not worked. he needs to focus on the other establishment candidates and establish dominant over them. >> i think the challenge is not so much going after trump but
going after trump versus establishing his own brand the way he tried to do it in the
initial debates which was basically talking about his record and his vision for the country. if there's an opening to hit trump, he has to do it but this is the time for him to go back to the first principles of his campaign and say i am the adult in the room. >> let's move on to another player and that's marco rubio. of all these guys he's the best positioned. we've seen polling including this new nbc "wall street journal" poll that shows him above the rest in the lane. what's his challenge? >> two things. if he's hit by christie and others, he has to show he can defend himself and he has to establish an identity with the republicans. why rubio, what is the argument for rubio. he's got to be a titan. you got to be a titan if you're going to get into the game with trump and cruz and i think he's got to say this is the rationale that makes me -- you should want me to be the next president. >> i think we have previewed clearly yesterday where this debate is going to go with rubio
which is straight to the gang of state. if rubio does not have a good, powerful strong answer on immigration he's going to be in trouble. >> chris christie, what is he got to do tonight? >> he's another person i think is going to get hit for being too much of a moderate, even a liberal. he's got to figure out a way to answer those charges and make sure people come out of here thinking he's a conservative. >> i think he's got the easiest challenge of the four establishment guys. he knows what to do in these debates. he's got an answer for everything. he's been very good in the debates. i think he can repel attacks easily. he'll be armed on everyone. of everybody on the stage i think he's the best at turning from a bad question or bad situation to something he wants to say. >> i agree. the one thing that's different is there's new information on the table. he's going to have to deal with that. the last guy, john kasich, what's his challenge tonight? >> he has to have breakthrough moments. most of his big moments in the previous debates since the first
one in cleveland have not been good moments for him. he's had bad high profile moments. he needs one or two moments of strength and people will forget the other debates. >> one of the problems he's had throughout these debates has been that he has often started strong and then petered out as the evening goes on. he's got to be consistently strong all evening long and he's got to be the same john kasich from the beginning of the debate to the end. again, in the past, he's come out and previewed a new john kasich and given up halfway through. got to be consistent. >> let kasich be kasich. >> all right. moving on, your twitter feed tonight will give you all the republican-related bloef yags you could ever want. let's turn and do bloef yags about the democratic race. bloomberg politics poll in iowa confirms that the race is burning up. bernie sanders has closed the gap in iowa. he trails hillary clinton by two, count them, just two percentage points. 40 to 42, which given the margin
of error means that this race is a statistical dead heat. in our last iowa poll a month ago clinton was ahead by nine full points. while she still leads among women, seniors and stall ward democrats, sanders dominates with the three groups responsible for president obama's 2008 upset against clinton. that's first-time caucus goers, independents and young voters. mark, this race, all the data we have now shows it very, very close. what do you think the chances are that one of these candidates is going to get hot and pull away before caucus night? >> i don't think sanders can do that in iowa. she's got too much solid support and too many voters i don't think are going to switch off of her. i think she can. she's trying to break his back now. i'm not sure it will work but it's possible, possible that she might go up to a six-point lead or so in this race over the next few weeks before the voting because she is trying to change the dynamic. he's fine with the trajectory
but i don't know that he's going to get much higher. >> some polling suggests that late breakers are headed towards hillary clinton which gives ballast to your argument but just in terms of finger tip feel, it feels like sanders has the momentum. he's advertising more heavily than she is on television and his ads are very good. there's some chance that sanders of the two of them are more likely to pull away but i'm of the view that this is going to be a total coin flip. >> that's what i think too. there's a throw everything at the wall and see what sticks to her campaign. conference calls, criticizing sanders. they're being much more reactive. >> coming up, our late night conversation with donald trump last night in pensacola, florida, what he said about ted cruz's goldman sachs loan and more after this. ♪ ♪
goldman is one of the biggest banks on wall street and my criticism with washington is they engage in cronie capitalism. they give favors to wall street and big business and that's why i've been an outspoken opponent of cronie capitalism taking on leaders in both parties. i think big business, if they're building a better mouse trap, great, but it shouldn't be government favoring them. let me give you an example. dodd frank, sold to the american people as too big to fail. what happened? the big banks have gotten bigger. goldman has gotten bigger. >> that was back in march when senate cruz stopped by our studio. among other things we talked about goldman sachs where his wife is on leave. cruz's ties to goldman are again in the news because of that "new york times" story about a loan he took out from goldman when he ran for senate in 2012 to help finance his campaign and which his campaign acknowledges he did not fully disclose. shortly after that we sat down
with the candidate cruz needs to overcome, donald trump, and we started out talking about ted cruz and goldman sachs. >> big story in the "new york times" about ted cruz and his not having reported properly a loan he got in a senate campaign from goldman sachs. are you concerned about that? do you think voters should be? >> well, i heard it's a big thing. i know nothing about it. but i hear it's a very big thing. i hope he solves it. i think he's a nice guy and i hope he gets it solved. >> you've been in the public spotlight for years and years. he has not. he's relatively new to the national scene. do you think it's possible that there's lots of things in his background now that he's become a leading candidate? >> i wouldn't know. he's been up until the last few days and the reason that i'm doing very well and i can understand it but he's been very, very nice to me, very respectful of my ideas, my whole being. he's been really terrific. i just hope that's not a big problem for him. >> to some people it looks like it could be just you and him.
certainly in iowa you guys are head to head. as you've said he's hitting you now. in a critical way he said you have new york values. is that a criticism to you? do you embrace new york values? >> i embrace. we took a big hit with the world trade center, worst attack, worse than pearl harbor because they attacked civilians, people having breakfast. frankly, if you would have been there and lived through that like i did with new york people, the way they handled that attack was one of the most incredible things that anybody has ever seen. we had these two massive 110-story buildings coming down and with all the death, destruction and the air and the atmosphere and the smell of death, very few people could have handled -- very few cities could have handled it. i'll tell you something, new york city and new york got a tremendous boost all over the world because very few people and now you look at the area, it's incredible what they've rebuilt. when people want to knock new
york -- first of all, you shouldn't be doing it because you have a massive population there, but when you want to knock new york, you got to go through me. new york is an amazing place with amazing people. >> we saw an earlier report about him saying to a group of new york donors that you might not have the judgment to control the nuclear arsenal. just talk about whether you think he has the judgment to control the nuclear arsenal and compare your ter perments. >> i think we both have strong temperaments but in all fairness i did not want to go into iraq. i'm the most military is tick person there is. i was the one that was saying don't go into iraq. i was the one that said take out osama bin laden before he knocked out the world trade center. if you think about it, i'm the one that said don't go in. i'm sort of modest. i want to win, i want to go, i want to build our military and make it so strong that nobody is ever going to play games or mess with us. i think my temperament is the best. i built a very tremendous
company, all private. i owned it. when i filed those papers even you guys were shocked at how big and good it is. they all said i'd never run and then i ran. then they said i'll never file a form a where you sign your life away and i filed that. then they said he'll never file his financials because he's not as rich as people think he is. turned out i was richer. the company is doing phenomenal. you cannot run the company unless you have a great temperament. >> what about his? >> i don't know about his temperament. he has a lot of problems with a lot of people. a lot of people don't like him. they don't want to be called liars on the senate floor, and frankly it's pretty tough stuff. but at the same time he's very upset like i am. i was asked by a -- i discussed it tonight at the speech. i was asked by one of your friends, are you angry because nicki and they said i was angry. i said to myself, i am angry
because our country is being run by incompetent people and it does make me angry and that's why i'm running. that's why i'm doing this. >> side by side for voters in iowa and around the country, you and senator cruz said getting along with people is an important thing. is your record of getting along with people better than his? >> i get along great with people. people don't know about that. i bring people together. my biggest disappointment with president obama, one much many, is he's a divider. i'm a unifier, and a lot of people don't understand that. in fact, if you remember, before i was running, they were saying, he gets along with democrats, he gets along with liberals. he gets along with everybody. i get along with everybody. now, as a businessman i had that obligation to get along with everybody because otherwise i probably wouldn't have done so well in what i do. but i get along with everybody. >> you say you get along with people better than he does, is that fair to say? >> i think most people would say that. certainly people that know me
would say that. >> so we asked trump about in the universe of how he's thinking about cruz, what do you think he thinks if it comes down to a two-person race? >> i think trump thinks he will win because he believes strongly that people really like him a lot and that he does not think that people genuinely like ted cruz and there's a meme in the world that we know that cruz is unpopular with colleagues and people he's worked for and worked with in the past. trump has great faith in his own mag tichl that in the end the likable candidate wins. >> who's the most likely trump puts on the ticket if he's the nominee. >> of all the other people in the race, i wouldn't be surprised if john kasich ends up on the ticket. the two have not gone after each other very much. >> there was a brief interlude. >> i think trump will be calculating about it. he'll see this is a transactional thing and look at ohio -- >> we talked to bob and fred the
other day and they said of course trump will pick someone from the establishment to help us out. >> you think cruz? >> i think it could end up trump/cruz. you said they're not really friends. i think there's a strength to their performance and fundraising skills that would be formidab formidable. >> what i meant earlier was to say, like you and i are friends. i don't think they're friends in the way that we're friends. they come from very different worlds and from different outlooks. >> more from our interview with donald trump later in the program. when we come back, we're going to get a reaction from a ted cruz supporter, the former virginia attorney general ken cuccinelli joins us right after this. here in the city, parking is hard to find. seems like everyone drives. and those who do should switch to geico because you could save hundreds on car insurance. ah, perfect. valet parking. evening, sir. hello! here's the keys. and, uh, go easy on my ride, mate. hm, wouldn't mind some of that beef wellington... to see how much you could save on car insurance, go to geico.com.
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joining us now here at the republican debate site in north charleston, south carolina is ken cuccinelli, the former attorney general of virginia and a supporter of ted cruz. great to see you here. everybody assumes that tonight is going to be a brawl between ted cruz and donald trump. do you share that expectation? >> um, not to that extent. i think there will be some exchange but i don't think it's going to reach the level of brawl, and i do think that the strategy you've seen, it's kind of natural for ted, is to hug. he's been sort of teased about it. i don't think you're going to see him toss the first punch. >> but the gloves have come off in the last few days around this issue of cruz's canadian birth
and whether he's eligible to be president or not. donald trump has gotten under the skin of almost everybody when he's gone after them. on this issue it seems like he might have gotten under the skin of ted cruz. do you agree or not? >> he hasn't done more than muddy the water for people. i'm a constitutional lawyer. i litigate this stuff. ted's in good shape or i wouldn't have gotten on board with him. he's in exactly the same legal issue as john mccain. they're both born on foreign soil to american citizens. >> since no judge has ruled on this, he can't really say. >> if you want to say that that's the question, unless the supreme court has ruled, it's an open question. >> but no judge has ruled on it. >> judges can rule any which way. >> that's how e -- >> senator cruz going around saying it's settled. this is a settled issue. >> it is settled law in the sense that the people who make
the legal decision in all 50 states have already decided it. they decided it on john mccain and put him on the ballot. >> is the role that goldman sachs plays in our economy good for america, bad for america? >> certainly you need financial ears. that goes back to the revolutionary era. one of the little written parts of that history is how did we finance the war and the answer is we barely did. >> do you have anything negative to say about the role goldman sachs plays in our economy? >> my objection to a lot of the folks on wall street is the advantages they get. i don't single out goldman sachs anymore than i would any of the others. you showed ted talking about dodd frank and supposedly bringing restraint to wall street. what it brought was protection, and that's wrong. the people who are suffering from that corporately are small community banks. they're getting killed. it's a great example of why washington tends to favor the big guys no matter what they
say. ted has supported legislation that's good for everne, not just special interests. >> let me ask you this, we've been talking for a long time about the possibility that maybe the establishment lane will never consolidate and this will end up being a ted cruz/donald trump race. in that race you're obviously confident cruz will win that race because you've endorsed him. what are the reasons why you think ted cruz wins against donald trump? >> i don't endorse him because i think he's going to win. i endorse him because i think he's the best for america. >> but you wouldn't endorse him if you don't think he could win. >> in this case, i think he is the most likely to win but it's a crowded field of high quality candidates. >> why does he beat donald trump in a one-on-one? >> while donald trump brings a lot of passion, he occasionally does things like attack ted cruz because ted cruz doesn't get along with people in washington. the only people ted cruz doesn't get along with are inside the beltway. he gets along with everybody
else just fine. he has a track record of fighting the establishment. donald trump has talked about it and i appreciate what he's done in that regard but ted cruz has fought and bled. >> give me a one-word answer. in what month will he know who the republican nominee is going to be? >> only one month, april. >> good answer. >> ken cuccinelli, thank you so much for coming on. when we come back, the rest of our conversation with donald trump and why he says that his campaign is a movement that's bigger, more powerful than the one that put ronald reagan in the white house. remember, if you're watching us in washington d.c., you can listen to us live on the radio, we'll be right back. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels.
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>> there is no better way to prepare for a debate than with a huge rally in pensacola, florida. there are three things that ever republican must do if they want to be the presidential nominee. love america, love freedom, and love reagan. when we spoke with donald trump last night after that rally he tried to win the gipper game in a pretty sensational way. >> your rallies are big and have become the signature events for any candidate. how do you feel when you're up there? is it exciting and how would you describe your style? >> when i look at an arena where you have close to 15,000 people and 5,000 to 7,000 people were turned away. they're standing online but they couldn't get them in. other people come in here and they'll have 103 people, 59 people. they'll have just a few people. they were just telling me outside all of the folks, political folks, people that you know very well, they were saying other candidates come here and if they get 100 people it's like -- i had 15,000 and we sent
away 5,000. >> how do you feel when you're up there? >> i feel great. >> how do you describe your style as a speaker? >> it's very important that i don't have a speech and i have a great memory so i'm able to do that. it's very important that i don't use a teleprompter. there aren't too many candidates -- first of all, none of the candidates would get up there without speeches in front of that many people and you have live television. you saw how many television cameras and they were live or most were live. but you develop a great excitement and bond and there's a lot of love in that room. that's a movement. that's not like a person coming in a making a speech and leaving after 20 minutes. there is love in that room and you see it. you see standing ovations every few minutes. they go wild. they want to see america become great again. they see -- they know it's a problem. they look at all the different things that i discussed tonight.
they see such stupidity and incompetence and it feels great. what feels better than anything is when you can put that many people in a room, get standing ovations all the time, and the love. it's that way everywhere. it's not like this is unique. when i go to mobile, alabama, dallas, oklahoma, when i go to iowa -- iowa i'm packed. i did two speeches on saturday and we were packed. no matter where we go, lowell, massachusetts we filled up an arena that was never filled up for a political event before. you look at what happens in new hampshire, they're packed. it's a great feeling. >> last question. you used the phrase movement for what you're leading here. just talk about throughout history, what kind of past movements would you compare this movement to? what does this movement remind you of historically? >> i think it's greater than anything we've seen in this country. now, with that being said, john, i have to win. i was called by one of your very
good friends, a man i have great respect for but i won't say the name, and he said what does it feel like, and that was three months ago because the summer had just been over and they called it the summer of trump. what does it feel like. i said what does what feel like? he said it's the summer of trump. it's never been done before. i said who cares, what difference if you don't win. recently i was called by the same person and he said this is more than just the summer of trump. i said it doesn't matter unless you win. to my way of thinking i may have gone down as having a good job but it doesn't matter unless i win. reagan had a little bit of this, i don't think to the same extent but he also won. i haven't been in that position yet. we have to see what happens. i think that the closest thing i can think of is reagan but i don't think it's the intensity. don't forget, we're very far out. this far out, the secret service and all the people, these are fantastic people, and i'll talk to people about different crowds and people, everybody, tells me
that they have never seen crowds like this this far away from november. we're talking about a long ways away. i'm very honored by it but it is a movement. it's not like a little political rally and people are showing up to have fun. these people are committed. and i sort of laugh and i think i'm going to be right but we'll see, people sometimes wait in line for seven, eight, ten, 12 hours in cold and heat, and then i hear on television the brilliant pundits say, well, i don't think they -- if he turns them out, as an example, those people go to vote, not a lot of people are going to be beating trump. we have crowds like this no matter where we go. we have arenas in dallas that are bigger than this. but if they go to vote -- they say, will they. why would a person stand oern for seven hours and not want to go into a voting booth that takes ten minutes. >> mr. trump, we know you've got a big day tomorrow and it's relatively late so we'll let you go.
>> thank you. >> good to see you. >> thank you, thank you. >> example 1,852 of trump being able to say something that if any other candidate said would be a problem. he said his movement was bigger than reagan's. i thought it would cause a stir today. as far as i can tell no one paid attention. can you imagine if ted cruz said i'm bigger than reagan. >> let's pause on this one fact. 54 million votes, that's what ronald reagan got in 1982. the day donald trump gets 54 million votes -- >> maybe he will. >> maybe he will. >> he said he has to win to fulfill it. >> i know, i know. >> i'll just say -- >> earlier you said he was the biggest movement like the history of the country. that's even a more sweeping claim. >> i will say that the answer we showed from the last segment when he talked about new york and after 9/11, one of the best answers he's given in any interview this entire campaign. he showed heart and passion an
he said, ted cruz, if you're going to criticize new york, you have to come through me. that fighting spirit as a new yorker is powerful if he becomes the nominee. we have two new yorkers running against each other. bernie sanders is a new yorker as well. new yorkers fight in a different way. >> we've been waiting for that since the old days when we thought giuliani and clinton would be against each other. that would be special. on the prove point, i think part of the thing is the way people define him, he's exaggerated so much that people don't bother fact checking him in some ways. >> our thanks to donald trump and when we come back, dan and casey to talk about tonight's debate right after this.
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don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work. here now to speculate mildly or wildly about what will happen tonight, our msnbc correspondents dan and casey. casey, everybody assumes that the biggest story coming out tonight is going to be trump and cruz. true or false? >> true i think. i think that's the biggest story going at the moment. you have republicans meeting down the way and that's all they
can talk about and trying to figure out whether republicans would rather have cruz or trump as their nominee because they seem to have reached some sort of acceptance kphase that it might be one or the other. i think the question is going to be does trump actually try to land these punches in front of an audience of millions of viewers tonight on particularly cruz and birtherism. we've seen him sometimes hold back a little bit on the debate stage if people don't go after him first. >> dan, who do you think will swing first if one of them swings? >> cruz. >> because? >> because he needs to fight back. i think trump's birtherism has had some effect on him and i think his numbers in iowa are not quite as robust as they were two weeks ago. >> his numbers are not as robust, do you think that's the issue? >> i don't know whether that's the real issue. absent any clear evidence, i think he needs to get back a little bit on the offensive tonight.
and trump is usually not, as casey said, somebody who throws the first punch. >> cruz has attacks plan and some other proposals but i very rarely hear voters talk about ted cruz that they like him because of a specific plan. does that matter? is there anything he's talking about issue-wise that's breaking through? >> nothing yet in terms of issues that has broken through for any candidate. this has been in a sense the most issue-less campaign in terms of a debate about issues that we've seen. >> you think it's objectively less issue oriented than previous campaigns? >> i do. there have been some skirmishes. >> nobody is talking about immigration plans with specificity. >> donald trump is talking about building a wall and getting mexico to pay for it. >> national security issues have come up. rubio and cruz have had a legitimate security debate. rand paul and christie have had legitimate debates about it.
i think people in hillary clinton's camp are complaining that they're not getting enough attention. she's put out policy papers, jeb bush has done the same thing and it's completely ineffective. >> it's not as though issues have not been discussed but it's not what defines the candidacy of any of the leaders. >> the establishment lane, the four guys, are any of them do you think coming into tonight a hotter hand than the other three? >> not necessarily. chris christie had been experiencing something of a bump in new hampshire. >> or so it seemed and then the polls came out. >> he came under scrutiny on the air waves. i'm interested to see if anybody levels an attack on him. we've seen his attacks on jeb bush. we'll see if he can land that with more efficacy. >> i don't think any of the four come in here with a clearly
hotter hand than the other three. >> no. i don't think any of the four think that they're as well positioned to come out in a better position than they were. >> do you think any of the four is under more pressure than the others, more vulnerable, likely to come out of this mortally wounded? >> i'm not convinced of that at this point. the one candidate that you would say that would be most likely is jeb bush. yet bush can look at these polls and say in new hampshire i'm still in the hunt for whatever place it is behind trump. >> i'm hearing more than i have in weeks and months people from the other campaigns say watch jeb. i'm not sure why that is. a lot of people said watch jeb because he's got $100 million but they don't anymore. >> some of the other campaigns are seeing it in their internal polling. it's popping up. he frankly has stayed, while he did take a dip in some of these new hampshire polls there in a slightly more stable position than i think a lot of people
expected based on the news coverage. and frankly, his events up in new hampshire are sizable. when i was up there with him and chris christie, there was a lot of buzz about christie but frankly bush was having bigger events. there is, i think, we've talked so much about how negatively his family name has impacted him. if there's any time it could help him, it would be now. he's at least getting a chance to make his case. >> let me ask a structural question to both of you. this is going to be a trimmed down stage with only six up there. we've seen a crowded stage in the past. do you think there's any candidate who gains some kind of advantage out of the fact that there's a slimmer cast of characters up there? >> i think that somebody like a christie may benefit because he'll get more time and christie likes to be forceful in these debates. the rubio camp obviously thinks he's the best debater on the stage and the more time he gets, they'll be happier. >> i'm interested to see whether or not having more time is good
or bad for donald trump. we've seen him fade at some of the end of these long debates. i'm interested to see whether or not he can keep up his energy level. >> you're a long-time clinton watcher. we've been struck this week by how reactive and defensive -- bernie sanders has a new ad that does not mention hillary clinton but are they being more reactive? as you see chelsea clinton, is this typical for the clintons? >> it's a sign of nerveousness on their part. i know though they've said we expect this race to be close and we expect competition, they were going to have their way in iowa and they don't at this point. i think they're nervous about this. >> panicking? >> no. >> panicking? >> not panicking. >> concern. fantastic. dan, casey, you are both
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you're looking live at a city outside the republican debate here in north charleston. joining us to talk more about the debate. i want to start with you and talk about cruz and rubio. for those who dismiss trump the new nbc news wall street journal poll shows trump wins. right now what is the advantage that rubio has over cruz if it becomes a contest between the two of them? >> i think rubio has a much more optimistic, positive -- he is more optimistic and positive but
in his being and message. he has many more substantive policy proposals. cruz is able to harness the anger. the case you hear from rubio people is that positivity and optimism wear better over the long term. >> what do you think bet that battle? >> what do you think about that? >> i think a couple of weeks ago you would have had a situation where you had the senator cruz campaign trying to make the case that senator rubio is more of a washington establishment type of politician. i think what is interesting is in the last couple of days particularly with this new development of the goldman sachs city financial disclosure issue that has arisen is that it suddenly flips the narrative and put senator cruz on defense. as we all know inside washington covering congress he is very unliked inside the halls of
congress which he is trying to play to his advantage. i'm not sure that is going to be able to hold up as we inch closer to iowa. >> unliked. every four years two things happen, britain fails on the world cup and press covers hawa iowa and new hampshire more than south carolina. what is going on in south carolina now in the republican race? >> i don't think anybody knows what is happening in south carolina. it is true it will be partially determined by momentum. the key factors that determine a nominee like endorsements in the state, military background of a candidate and so on we don't have those this time. governor nikki haley and the two senators, lindsey graham and tim scott have not endorsed. people are leaning on them heavily for endorsements. senator rubio and governor bush are the two candidates who could
get endorsements but thus far they are not in the race. that is something i think everybody should be watching for. i think it is worth noting that rubio, bush, chris christie and donald trump are all people who can make a claim to have a fighting chance. >> one way i try to think about the primaries including south carolina is what if it were a governor race? who would win if the people ran for governor in south carolina? >> if you look at polls it is mr. trump. no question right now. i think to your point about the momentum of attacking mr. trump or endorsing an alternative candidate no one is taking him on. we are starting to see that with senator cruz starting to be a little more aggressive. the longer they wait and don't endorse, the stronger it would appear mr. trump is. >> if trump comes into this state strong based on results of iowa or new hampshire i think it would be hard to beat him.
>> it took us a while for his name to get introduced. you are working reporters. now that you have trump on the table start with you and then you, what is the most interesting thing you heard in the last week about donald trump as a reporter? a piece of information that come to you about trump? >> a piece of information about mr. trump. i thought it was interesting when i spent time with donald trump jr. that after the bitter divorce battle mr. trump went to his deceased father in law's funeral. i think that spoke to the family man we don't get to see. >> it doesn't have to be from the trump world or campaign about trump, trump fact. >> a number of prominent republicans that i have heard say that they could possibly reconcile themselves with trump as a nominee in order to keep ted cruz from seizing the
nomination i'm surprised by. i think people are genuinely torn but i do think people are starting to reconcile themselves with this idea. >> just to tease that out because that is a new story line, is that only because of the alternative being cruz or is that because people are starting to maybe like donald trump a little bit. >> that is only because of the alternative. i sort of think of it as the evil you know less is the one that you prefer because trump is not as known to these guys who know cruz because they spend time with him. >> you see negative ads are starting up. to you think negative ads will help somebody with the nomination? >> i don't think it helps someone like jeb bush. he was out with a different take trying to attack mr. trump on his remarks against a reporter with a disability. that is a different tone. it almost plays right into mr. trump's hand if he is able to
say it is just another politician. >> you think negative ads are a factor? >> they always have been before. even though they may not pick anybody -- >> this moment one great producer in negative ads is mike murphy. do you think in the end that right to rise will be regarded to what? what will be the judgment? >> i think mike murphy may come out of this as the biggest loser of the election season. >> i think he helped frame the narrative against democrat attacks on secretary clinton. >> thank you both for joining us. we'll be right back. . tzer heartburn reliefchews. they work fast and don't taste chalky. mmm...amazing. i have heartburn. alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.
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with a non-insulin option, ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. and click to activate your within. we are live 24/7 on bloomberg politics.com. make sure you read recaps of the debate when it is over tonight. also coming up on sunday night the premiere episode of our new program show time the circus, 8 p.m. watch it. >> if you are watching this
program in washington, d.c. or in your car you can listen to us on bloomberg 99.1. tad divine is on our program tomorrow. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. trump, trump, trump, trump. i smell the blood of a canadian. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the latest polling on the republican presidential fight has donald trump weighing in with his highest percent ever. cruz the man he branded last week as an illegal immigrant as far as constitutional eligibility is concerned has plunged. it is donald trump 33%, ted cruz falling down to 20%. from a five point gap in the last poll to a 13 point gap in the one o