tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 14, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
tonight on "all in" -- >> stupid mike keeps popping. >> the next big thing is here. donald trump's new attack. >> i know nothing about it, but i hear it's a very big thing. >> tonight, new polling sends chills down republicans' spines as talk of a brokered convention heats up. then, the republican birther fight and the democratic congressman threatening to sue. plus, the single biggest endorsement since kennedy backed obama tonight as democrats push to pick who should win the elizabeth warren primary. and first the president challenged the nra -- >> you'd think they'd be prepared to have a debate with the president. >> today, a response. >> i'll meet you for a one-on-one one-hour debate. >> but should the president accept? "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. an hour from now on a stage in
north charleston, south carolina, the two gop candidates duking it out for victory in iowa will come face to face for the first time in 2016. for most of the campaign donald trump and ted cruz have been reluctant to take each other on. trump waiting until provoked, although poking the bear a bit. cruz hoping to curry favor with his rival supporters, a strategy he's referred to as bear hugging trump. but now with the iowa caucuses less than three weeks away, all that starting to change. tonight's debate is hosted by fox business. it's the first one to feature just seven candidates on the main stage with rand paul and carly fiorina having been bumped thanks to low poll numbers. all eyes on trump on center sta stage and the man to his left. trump remarked on the new dynamic between cruz and himself. >> ted's been really nice until the last couple of days, ted cruz. he's been really, really nice, other than the last couple of days, getting a little testy. i've been waiting. i've been waiting. >> as iowa comes down to the
wire, things have started to get a bit testy between the two front-runners and with a conservative electorate motivated largely it appears by identity politics, he's selling the same negative story about his opponent, he's just not one of us. that was the sub text of a somewhat bizarre comment trump made about cruz's religion. >> you got to remember in all fairness, to the best of my knowledge, not too many evangelicals come out of cuba, okay, just remember that, okay, just remember. >> seems to underlie trump's claim because cruz was born in canada there may be questions about his eligibility to run for president. meanwhile, cruz has countered trump's birther attacks by tying him to liberal east coast elites, all that what sarah palin calls the real america. after a harvard law professor, who actually taught ted cruz, questioned cruz easel jiblt,
this is his response. >> strange to see relying on a liberal left wing activist harvard law professor, who's a huge hillary supporter. starts to make you think, gosh, why are hillary's strongest supporters backing donald trump? >> then cruz's comments. >> i think he may shift in his new rallies to playing new york, new york, because, you know, donald comes from new york and he embodies new york values, and, listen, donald seems to be a bit rattled. >> princeton undercard, law firm, he's managed to forge a very different political identity. yesterday cruz scored the ultimate validation of that creative identity, an endorsement from "duck dynasty's" bill robertson. >> he's the man for the job and
he will go duck hunting. >> the reason we're going to vote for you, all of us, is because you're one of us. >> unfortunately for cruz, on the same day "the new york times" published a report telling a different kind of story about who ted cruz is. a loan he took out from goldman sachs, his wife's employer, to finance his senate campaign, which he later failed to disclose in presidential filings. donald trump now seems pretty concerned. >> it's a big thing, i know nothing about it, but i hear it's a big thing. i hope he solves it. he's a nice guy and i hope he gets it solved. >> trump and cruz are leading the pack, between them they have more than half of all republican support. while many pundits argued the glut of establishment candidates is splitting the antitrump and cruz vote, that does not seem to be the case as of now. according to this poll, trump
still finishes first and rubio comes in distant third, all of which makes it less likely a single candidate will be able to win enough primaries to lock up the nomination and more likely the republican party is headed towards a contested convention this summer, something which the rnc is now preparing. joining me now from south carolina, political writer for "buzz feed" news. let's start with this dynamic, first time cruz and trump, the gloves are cing off. sort of took a little while, somewhat inevitable, cruz was drafting behind donald trump and is now kind of making his move. what do you expect with the two standing next to each other tonight? >> well, i think that we're now, i think, 18 days out from the iowa caucuses. if there are moves to be made, they are going to have to make them. we saw a report earlier this week that ted cruz's campaign or backers had actually been testing lines against donald trump. the new york values, i believe, one of them or something like that. apparently that one tested well
because cruz is using it. i will say, though, the fascinating dynamic there, and you got a bit in that intro, both trump and cruz are trying to cast each other as exotic or different or not one of us, right? ted cruz has been doing it by pointing to, you know, donald trump's past liberal positions a little bit, which is apparently very exotic to the rest of the world, but also i can tell you donald trump, of course, has been raising this issue, the birther issue and saying, you know, is ted cruz even eligible to be president. and i can say it's amazing how trump when he first came out with that, that was something a lot of people kind of laughed at, even in the party, even in the republican presidential field. just a few minutes ago, right before i came on here, i was on the floor there and i interviewed mike huckabee briefly. i asked him what he thought of this eligibility issue and he
actually said that he has evolved on this. he's changed his mind. he said at first i thought it was ridiculous, but i've been reading some constitutional scholars now and actually i'm not sure. it seems like maybe it is a real issue. i mean, what i think that shows is the ability that trump has to take literally any issue, any idea as, you know, wacko or farfetched as it seems and kind of insert it into the middle of the race and make it something that's actually mainstream in the primary. and i think that's what cruz is contending with. >> you know, this is going to be the first time tonight that you've got the three people in the middle who are polling at the top right now, which is rubio, trump, and cruz, right, and that's who that national poll. again, a theoretical three-way race national poll is -- doesn't mean anything per se, but that number has to be giving people heart burn. you wrote a great piece today in "buzz feed" about the sort of
anti-trump calvary that never came. the idea was we're going to come after this guy and it hasn't happened yet. >> it's -- remember, and i was one of the people who had been convinced of this idea. i thought if trump's campaign didn't naturally organically melt down, before things got too serious, before we got anywhere close to iowa, you know, the coalition of super pacs and opposing campaigns would come in and carpet bomb the swing states or the early primary states with attack ads and trump would be exposed as a shar he tan and be chased out of the race. not only did that dynamic not end up playing out, nobody has spent any money to attack trump. we have a ridiculous kind of unreal situation right now where literally a couple weeks out from iowa and people are spending millions of dollars to bludgeon each other, these candidates in the single digits while the front-runner is facing virtually no attack ads, no money sent in. >> as far as i can tell, zero dollars of paid negative
advertising on donald trump where if you look through his record, there's stuff you can cut negative ads. it's not hard to cut a 30-second negative ad against donald trump. there's none, there's not a single one. >> right. >> so he and cruz are going to fight. meanwhile, the convention has to start -- the republican party has to start thinking about if you go far with cruz and trump each maintaining a sizable base of support and some establishment candidate emerging, you know, you're looking at a very, very messy spring and summer. we'll see how that all plays out tonight. >> i think you're right, i think you're right. >> thank you. joined by contributing writer, you had a great piece today about the meaning of the goldman sachs loan for ted cruz. cruz in some ways has been so successful at so minutely crafting to match perfectly the basis positions and persona.
i think it's been hard for opponents to find ways to outflank him. this strikes me as actually possibly a problem for him politically. >> yeah, this certainly could be it. there are just waves of hypocrisy here. first of all, cruz said in sort of his biographical information that he risked his net worth, he put all his chips in to become a senator and, in fact, what he did was he risked -- didn't even risk, goldman sachs money, he got a loan to actually, you know, put that money into his race. you know, he's been banging crony capitalism and banging that drum on the campaign trail and then taking money from large banks, not just goldman sachs, but citi, as well. yeah, there's a lot there, but i think this is more of an inequality issue, the issue of the kind of candidates we get to run for office. they are usually the kind that
can afford to, your hon know, g million dollar loan, have the collateral to back that up, rather than the ordinary person that has no means of getting that kind of support. >> and, in fact, this is one of the things i found fascinating about some of the stories about marco rubio. marco rubio has not been someone who has a ton of money. ted cruz and his wife, ted cruz worked at a well compensated law firm, they had a lot of money. rubio did not have money like the other people standing up there on that stage and you see these stories about him trying to sort of put together the money, cashing out his ira and things like that and people don't realize how much personal money goes in as essentially seed dough for candidates when they are trying to run for office. >> right. it's all perfectly legal. you can self fund to the tune of unlimited amounts if you want to run for office. you can take out loans, you can take out a second mortgage. you can get a loan backed by a brokerage account, which is what
ted cruz did, and i'm sure the fact that he was a multimillionaire in his law practice and his wife worked for goldman sachs, they didn't blink an eye when they underwrote that. the only way there'd be any risk of him not paying it back is if he'd won because he'd learn less of a salary in the senate than what he was earning at the law firm. >> david, thank you very much. still to come, donald trump's power of not so subtle suggestions showing signs of chipping away at another candidate. plus, the nra had to think about it for a week, but now they are totally, completely ready to debate president obama. later, the big endorsement democrats are waiting for. why it's taking so long, why it might never come. those stories ahead. i've been on my feel all day.
>> $505 billion, and by the way, i don't like this mike. whoever brought this mike system -- son of a [ bleep ] who brought this in. mike is terrible. stupid mike keeps popping. hear that, george? don't pay them. don't pay them. you know, i believe in paying, but when somebody does a bad job like this stupid mike, you shouldn't pay them. terrible. terrible. it's true. got to be tough with your people. they don't care, they'll pay. so we're not going to pay. i guarantee i'm not paying for this mike. possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira
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ted cruz has a problem, because the question is, is he a natural born citizen? look, doesn't matter what he does. you can't have a nominee who's going to be subject to be thrown out as a nominee. just can't do it. >> i think without question he is qualified and would make the cut, you know, to be prime minister of canada, absolutely, without question he's qualified and he meets qualification. >> i think the democrats will challenge it at the very least and i think it will have to be decided by the supreme court. >> donald trump's birther attacks on ted cruz are not just becoming fodder with other republican candidates, they very well may be taking a toll, an undecided caucusgoer in iowa, i'm quoting here, "i was kind on the fence before coming down, but now i'm pretty much 100% for trump, he said after the rally
on tuesday. i liked ted cruz, as well, but now there's questions about his citizenship. i don't want to wait to see what happens with that." kicking up dust seems to be working. since cruz's peak in iowa, his lead over trump has decreased, now trump is a slight lead in the polling average. that lead is statistically insignificant, the fact remains cruz has dropped. there is broad legal consensus that cruz would, in fact, be deemed a natural born citizen could be challenged. it's also true the supreme court has never actually ruled on the issue. this law professor wrote an op-ed in the washington post cruz is not eligible for president, so there are some consenting voices. the only question remaining, who would file such a legal challenge? this man says he would, allen grayson of florida, all right, congressman. you're going to sue about ted cruz's qualifications to be president of the united states? >> sure, if he's the nominee, i
will do that. >> why? >> because the constitution means what it says and says what it means. i don't agree there's consensus about this at all. larry trite seems to be on my side of the argument. >> let's just be clear here. this naturalized at birth is something that's been implemented by statute, constitution says natural born citizen, most people interpret the naturalized by birth now in this modern era means a natural born citizen, and that's a sort of important principle, right, if you're outside of the country and your kid is born, you want them to be an american citizen, right? >> look, there's a legal argument which you just addressed and a factual argument. let's start with the legal argument. you seem to think that natural born citizen means somebody born to an american parent, right. there is not much legal authority to support that and the supreme court has, in fact, never addressed that. a better argument can be made it means you're simply born in the
united states. one of the words connote natural born citizen. certainly, no reason to think it for sure means anything other than that. with regard to the facts, another problem that he has, which is that his mother was a registered voter, he relies upon his mother for his american citizenship, his mother was a registered voter in canada. that came out this week. if she was a registered voter in canada, safe to say she was a citizen of canada, like his father was. how can he claim american citizenship? >> what standing would you have to sue? what would the suit look like? what injury have you, allen grayson, sustained by him being nominee to be president of the united states? >> i heard the argument. it's a fake issue. say the republican party nominated an elephant for president and the democrats nominated a donkey, do you think we'd have to choose between the elephant and donkey? of course we wouldn't. >> someone is going to have to
grant -- look, we went through this. we wenthrough with the president obama birther stuff, right, the idea there was that he was about where his place of birth was, that he was actually born in kenya, which is not true, but because he was born there, illegitimate, right? there were all sorts of wackos suing all over the place that couldn't get into a courtroom for standing. >> that case is not this case, okay, that case is about someone who was born in the united states. this is about someone who was born in canada. i'm not going to get into legal strategies here. and by the way, the whole standing document comes from our friend justice scalia, who i worked with for a year, so i know a thing or two about standing. >> you actually bring this suit and you actually think if he is the nominee that -- i mean, i guess it's america, right, so at some level what trump is saying is true, which is anything like this is going to be litigated by someone, i imagine. >> yes.
that's exactly what makes america so great. anybody can sue anybody for anything. >> says the man who was once a lawyer doing his own. >> prosecuted more prosecutors for success. >> possible legally. i think you're a little bit persuading me in the moment, although maybe i'm just -- >> you're evolving. >> i think you're a good lawyer. i'm sure as soon as the interview is over i'll come back to my senses. >> damn good congressman, hopefully a good senator next year. >> here's the question, is it possible -- i guess is it possible to resolve -- trump has been talking about declaratory judgment. you wouldn't want it resolved after the guy's elected. let's just say that. >> look, if the republicans are foolish enough to nominate somebody who's ineligible for the job, that's really not my problem. i'm a democrat. remember what they did bush v.
gore, that was a very bad piece of litigation there and knocked out president gore. >> all right. >> free pass? i don't think so. >> congressman allen grayson, thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> you're welcome. up next, chicago mayor rahm emanuel is facing new questions about the timeline he initially gave about when he knew about the dash cam footage of the death of laquan mcdonald. that report ahead. choices. but up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients ... ... from food alone. let's do more. add one a day women's ... ...complete multivitamin. with vitamin d and calcium to help support bone health. one a day. i'i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle.
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today called into question exactly what chicago mayor rahm emanuel knew about the fatal police shooting of an african-american teenager. perhaps even more importantly, when he knew it. 17-year-old laquan mcdonald was shot and killed october 2014. at the time police say he lunged at an officer, who then shot him in the chest. the autopsy report, however, showed mcdonald was shot 16 times. the video of the shooting showed that he was shot as he was walking away, and shot multiple times while already on the ground. the officer who shot him has now been arrested and charged with murder. the shooting happened four months before chicago's hotly contested mayoral election. the video of the shooting wasn't made public until a court ordered it released late last year, but that video was crucial, according to the city's top lawyer, in the city's decision to settle with laquan mcdonald's family. that settlement came down eight days after mayor rahm emanuel won his run-off election. now, according to "chicago
tribune," emanuel maintained he didn't understand the gravity of the laquan mcdonald shooting death until before the city reached the settlement with the family and wasn't aware other officers may have falsified reports about the shooting until after the video was released to the public. now the tribune reports emanuel's top staffers became keenly aware the mcdonald shooting could become a legal and political quagmire in december 2014, more than three months before the mayor said he was fully briefed on the issue. and lawyers for mcdonald's family informed emanuel's law department in march that police officers' version of what happened differed dramatically from the shooting video. more than eight months after he agreed to settle the case for $5 million. tribune reporter john bern pressed mayor rahm emanuel on that point earlier today.
[ inaudible question ] >> john, the answer, which is consistent also what i've said before, at that point the federal bureau of investigation, the u.s. attorney and the state's attorney are looking into it and that's exactly where it should be so they can get to the bottom to it. >> your advisers did know and weren't telling you about it? >> the answer to it, because if you're going to get to the bottom of something and get justice is exactly what the u.s. attorney, fbi, and state's attorney. >> a short time after that press conference on the orders of a federal judge a video was released showing another deadly police shooting, this one from 2013. if the city of chicago had been, like in the case of the mcdonald shooting, trying to prevent the footage from being released, but yesterday the city's top lawyers changed course and dropped the
city's objection. the video was recorded from a surveillance camera and is not exactly clear what's happening, but you can make out what appears to be two plain-clothed officers approaching a car that had been reported stolen. a 17-year-old, cedric chapman, can be seen running away from the car and an officer can be seen drawing his gun. next image appears an officer is standing over chapman's body. the officer told investigators he thought chapman was holding a gun and he feared for the safety of himself and his partner. chapman turned out to be holding a box or iphone. "he was running away, so why kill him?" he also recommended the officer lose his job, but his decision was overruled. we had davis on the show last summer. he told us he was fired because he would not change his findings about police shootings he found unjustified. the city of chicago maintains chapman was shot justifiably,
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at business.ny.gov there's a reason why the nra is not here. they are just down the street. and since this is the main reason they exist, you'd think that they'd be prepared to have a debate. >> just so i'm clear, tonight you are saying you are welcome to meet with the nra? >> anderson, i've said this repeatedly. i'm happy to meet with them. i'm happy to talk with them. >> today a full week after refusing to attend a town hall on guns with the president, the national rifle association says they are ready to talk, rather debate, one on one. nra head wayne lapierre versus president obama. today they released a video, and ending with an offer. >> i'll tell you what, i'll meet
you for a one on one one-hour debate with a mutually agreed upon moderator on any network that will take it. no prescreened questions, and no gas fed answers. let's see if you're game for a fair debate. it's your chance to show the american people you're not afraid to meet the nra on neutral ground. >> it's important to keep in mind the man in that video, that's wayne lapierre, is the same man who seven days after 20 children and six adults were murdered by guns in connecticut, gave one of the most unnerving and bizarre speeches in american politics. highlighting the impact of video games. >> here's another dirty little truth that the media try their best to conceal. there exists in this country,
sadly, a callous, corrupt, and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people. through vicious, violent video games with -- >> as the president of the united states does decide to debate wayne lapierre, i'm going to say right now, i would be more than happy to host it right here on msnbc. but should obama debate wayne lapierre, that's different entirely. joining me david corn, washington, d.c., editor of "mother jones." what do you think, david? >> well, i think it's good for you to make that offer, i don't know anyone else who might. >> i can't imagine anyone else who would want to broadcast that. >> kind of makes me think of president assad in syria saying i'll debate the president of the united states if he's brave enough to debate me. i can't wait for the conservatives out there on twitter to say i compared wayne
lapierre to a dictator, but then again, i think i can take that. the nra and wayne had a chance at cnn to be part of a communal discussion with the president. and they chose not to take it. that i thought was done rather well. there were a lot of questions there who had a different view on gun safety and gun control than the president and did give them very sharp questions, so nobody was certainly in the can or in the tank on this and the nra decided not to participate. they often go dark after mass shootings and then as you just showed they come up with some of the most ludicrous responses, they have done everything they can to handcuff the at trkatf, they complain the federal government doesn't enforce gun laws. the list goes on and on. years ago wayne lapierre made headlines when he called federal
agents black -- what was it? jack booted thugs. >> that led to president george h.w. bush sending his resignation letter to the nra. this is a moment during a lot of the kind of militia -- militia tis ti hysteria that happened in the mid '90s. >> i think the president is right to kind of giggle at this phoney invitation. the nra can act like any other, you know, interest group in this country and participate in the appropriate forums and to demand they do so if the president debates wayne lapierre, you know, is a little ridiculous. >> so you have just given the argument, which i think is generally a persuasive one about why the president of the united states would not essentially stoop to the level of the nra, you know, respond to somewhat preposterous video. let me say someone looking into a camera right now, there's nothing less tough than looking
into a camera and reading something. particularly when it's not live. this idea you're showing how tough you are by reading into a camera, give me a break. that said, i actually think that would be amazing, frankly, wayne lapierre versus president obama and i think the gun debate in this country has become so compacted and contractible and in need of disruption, i think they should do it. >> that's an interesting point. i would say maybe when the president doesn't have his day job. >> right. >> he can come up with an hour for wayne lapierre. but for now, i mean, i do think that wayne lapierre is not an honest or reasonable actor in the debate, and if he wants to join a panel discussion that the white house is participating in, if he wants to accept one of the white house invitations to join those sort of discussions there, he's been free to do that. but this is a guy who has behaved pretty reprehensibly on
a lot of fronts. for that reason alone i don't think the president should have a stage mano a mano with him. >> here's what's so striking to me. what the president is really trying to do, i think, in good faith and whether he's effective or not is trying to persuade people on these issues. wayne lapierre is not in the persuasion business. i remember watching that -- watching that press conference, that speech after sandy hook and thinking this is clearly the end of this guy's political career and possibly the end of the nra. this is so bizarre and so offensive in its tone and so sort of disrespectful, and it wasn't. it wasn't aimed at anyone but basically the hard core of their membership. >> well, they've become very good at fearmongering pain, whether it's 10% or 20% of people who support their general policies, and then again, remember, the line for the last seven years has been, and you reported on this a lot, chris, from the nra is that the president is coming to take your guns. >> right. >> it's not true.
may want gun safety measures, he may want some limitation on gun ownership, but he's not coming to take your guns. and by, you know, sticking to that point, i think wayne lapierre and the nra has proven that they are not good faith actors in any sort of policy debate here, although if obama decided to take your advice rather than mine on this, i would not be upset about that. >> amazing, david corn, you would watch. >> i would certainly watch. particularly if you were hosting. >> david corn, thank you for joining me. >> my pleasure. coming up, could one endorsement outweigh the power of hundreds? the warren factor ahead. if you have high blood pressure like i do, many cold medicines may raise your blood pressure. that's why there's coricidin® hbp. it relieves cold symptoms without raising blood pressure. so look for powerful cold medicine with a heart. coricidin® hbp. wait, i can freeze my account.
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which money is being raised, ben carson is charismatic, money goes back out the door for people hired to do the fundraising. look at the numbers, $14 million spent, no other campaign in the field that has numbers like that. >> dr. carson didn't have a political fundraising list. he started this campaign with zero donors on the list. number two, when you go to it, it's the people in the pundit status that have the list that charge so much money to speak to the voters that want to talk to us. number three, people are interested in raising money and giving to dr. carson. as we go through this process, we're continuing to do what we need to do. >> there's been some talk for some time now ben carson's campaign is adrift, to enrich consultants at the expense of the small dollar donors rushing to give money to aid carson's ambitions. evidence keeps pouring in. politico reported today on
carson's financier, dean parker, the man i spoke to last week. parker's operation has piled up unnecessary expenses and paid hefty consulting fees to an inexperienced staff. to top it all off, parker began earning $20,000 a month salary for a position that's typically an honorary one, that is a volunteer job. as chris christie's finance chair put it, if they think i'm getting a scrape on the money as a finance chairman you lose all your credibility. parker resigned from his post, he defended his earnings earlier, noting he was on the job 24/7. >> what national finance chairman travels 26 to 28 days a month, not home with wife and four kids and gives his whole heart to everything to raise money for a candidate that has no history? most finance chairmen pick up the phone and do it from their office. >> spent more than it raised in october when carson was peaking in the polls.
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it said, "rocky mountaineer: all aboard amazing". bernie sanders has a new ad out today that the clinton campaign says violates a crucial sanders promise. >> there are two democratic visions for regulating wall street. one says it's okay to take millions from big banks and then tell them what
to do. my plan, break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes, and make them pay their fair share. >> the ad doesn't mention clinton by name. the clinton camp claimed the spot violates sanders pledge not to run negative ads. in an interview today with rachel maddow, airing right after today's show, clinton said the ad was not just an attack on her. >> i mean, basically, it's also a very direct criticism of
president obama, who, as you might recall, took a lot of money from the financial industry when he ran in 2008. that didn't stop him from fighting for the hardest regulations on wall street since the great depression, signing dodd-frank, getting everything he could get out of congress at that time. >> polls show clinton and sanders in a tight race in iowa and new hampshire. when it comes to endorsements, clinton is dominating, 457 endorsements from governors and members of congress, compared to just two for sanders and one for martin o'malley. there's still one democrat yet to weigh in, whose endorsement could have a bigger impact than all those folks put together. a person with the power to fundamentally change the race. i'm not talking about president obama, who the white house says is unlikely to back a candidate while there's still a primary fight, i'm talking about progressive hero elizabeth warren, who happens to be the only female democratic senator who's not thrown her support
behind clinton. warren, whose office did not respond for a request for comment is in a difficult spot, seeming to be more aligned with sanders, inequality, shrinking middle class, and reining in bank power, which she focused her career on. a close warren associate told bloomberg politics, "her prime directive is not to damage the party's chances in november." if there's growing pressure on warren to choose a side, including from democratic senators, one of whom pushed warren to back clinton. if sanders manages to win iowa and new hampshire, that pressure will increase dramatically. coming up i'll speak with the editor of the nation magazine, which made its endorsement today about the warren primary and her potential to change the game. that's next.
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joins me now to discuss the potential impact of an elizabeth warren endorsement, byrnies sander for president, and rebecca, writer at large for "new york" magazine. rebecca, as someone who has written an entire book about hillary clinton and the 2008 election, the opening endorsement would be massively game changing and wrenching, particularly if it went in either direction. >> i'm sure when i say i personally would be totally heartbroken if she endorsed either one of them. i think it's for in her best
interests. i don't think it's in the best interest of the voters to have elizabeth warren came in. i know it's all the game of who endorses who, but to me there are real arguments for her supporting either or both of them. fundamentally they're two very strong candidates. even hilly, who warren has had a tough position, is moving closer to warren ease ideas, so i don't think it's in anything's best interest for elizabeth warren to give an endorsement. >> "the nation" endorsed bernie sanders on the warren principles, with here is telling the american people about the rigged system. you do have burnie sanders as the warren wing of the party --
>> but is that important -- >> and her power to to lift you up issues that bernie sanders has taken on the campaign trail. i think elizabeth sanders -- >> that's a funny freudian slip. >> she wants to ensure a democrat ecsenate, and she will have sherrod brown as the chair of the banking committee. >> this gets to the question, right? put yourself in a position of someone who has her politics, the warren wing of the party, right? describing the system as an oligarchy i think was great and accurate, but what are you going to do about it? to me that is the part of the sanders vision, which is a bit of an eclipse sees. election bernie sanders,
ellipsises. >> he's going to walk to a morass. >> he needs a -- which brings it down to electability and practicality. >> but i don't think practicalitipractica practicality works in our system anymore. >> i mean -- i'm not sure i love political revolution, but it essentially means you have to mobilize people. you don't do what president obama did after he got elected. you keep people at your back, engage with the movements of your time. >> that's easier said than done. >> it's also the ability, forgive me torque bring in different kinds of people, to fill agencies with different kinds of people. if you have a democratic senate bernie sanders would have a different kind of team both in domestic and foreign policy. >> that i totally agree with,
right? but, rebecca, here is one of the things i told about her prime directive is not to hurt the party, the remarkable part of this is i think the most bruceal way to attack bernie sanders is an attack they can't use which is -- do you think america is going to elect a 70-year-old socialist? >> they certainly can't say that and shouldn't. >> but that's the bar that sanders has to get over. >> who would have imagined a year ago that bernie sanders is competing with hillary clinton? admitly in iowa and new hampshire, there's a long road ahead, but a younger generation which lived through the financial crisis is open to the idea of democratic socialist. millions are looking beyond the labels and meeting bernie sanders and his issues -- forgive me for talk sog quickly -- i think that's a
moment to open space for progressive movements and possible continuation of this campaign, even if he doesn't make it. >> i agree that he's done all of that. i admire him tremendously. i think he is mobilizing people. i don't think the only way that story ends well is with him getting the nomination and the presidency. in fact i think there's a way in which that mobilization of people if it was stopped completely short would be actually really dreamtal to the larger cause. >> here's a question that you can ask people. let's say -- in all likelihood, you never know what's going to happen, but senate and house in republican hands and democratic president. so the question is, who do you want to be grindic outenings toxic dysfunctional swamp for the next four years of just endless venomous marginal brutal little fights around -- >> but chris, you forget you're
not -- >> most likely. >> you forget your 2008 endorsement of obama for the nation. >> no, i don't. >> in a sense you don't. >> wait a second. barack obama had the largest majority since lbj, who had the largest since fdr. you tell me bernie sander has a filibuster majority in the house or senate and the house in his hands. >> what's more important is to rally the country. he's not going to get legislative accomplishments, but there are other ways of making change that hillary clinton was more transactional. i think she's moved to meet the populist moment, but i think she'll still fundamentally a transactional politics. >> and you think bernie sanders could be elected president of the united states? >> i do. >> i hope so. >> thank you. i hope so. never say never. >> thank you both. that is "all in" for this
evening, rachel's exclusive interview with hillary clinton starts right now. \s thanks for being with us tonight. usually this is the time in the show where i'm about to start talking for an uninterrupted 17 minutes that involves a lot of really arcane historical illusions. tonight something different, because you've been very good. tonight we're joined by a special guest, who is hard to get. she was here in the building to do "the tonight show" with jimmy fallon. we asked if she could swing by, it turns out she could. joining us is secretary clinton. >> excellent, i thought i would come during historical illusion time. >> we've heard enough about 1952, maddow, let's go further back. very good. well, let me ask you, start with something very much in the headlines, interesting in the headlines during president obama'