tv NBC News Special Democratic Debate MSNBC January 17, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PST
right now i'm chuck todd in charlest charleston, south carolina. for lester holt and andrea mitchell, we say good night. good evening from charleston, south carolina, i'm chuck todd. it was the debate we've been waiting for, the one that lived up to the hype on the democratic side. it seemed to be all about bernie sanders tonight. tonight in his final debate with the iowa caucuses just about two weeks from now, hillary clinton, bernie sanders and martin o'malley took the stage here at the gaillard center in charleston. they engaged in some heated exchanges on health care, guns in america and wall street's influence in this election. i'm being joined in the spin room in this hour by eugene robinson, a pulitzer prize-winning columnist for the "washington post." and an msnbc analyst.
eugene, this was the bernie sanders debate. >> it really was. it was all about bernie sanders. he has proposed -- i guess he has proposed revolutionary change. hillary clinton very much pushed back against that and pushed back against various aspects of bernie sanders' record, especially on guns. she was on the offense on the gun issue. on wall street, which was one of the more interesting clashes, i thought, the tables were turned in a way and he very much went after her for taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking fees. >> let's go to some highlights here. let's go to the highlights here. one of the first heated exchanges tonight was over health care and here was hillary clinton and bernie sanders arguing over the cost of bernie sanders' proposal. >> we have the affordable care act. that is one of the greatest accomplishments of president obama, of the democratic party
and of our country, and we have already seen 19 million americans get insurance. we have seen the end of pre-existing conditions keeping people from getting insurance. we have seen women no longer paying more for our insurance than men and we've seen young people up to the age of 26 being able to stay on their parents' policy. there are things we can do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate i think is the wrong direction. >> i have to talk about something that is absolutely working in my state. >> we're going to go forward. what the secretary neglected to mention, not just the 29 million that have no health insurance, that even more are underinsured with huge co-payments and deductibles. the vision from fdr and harry truman was health care for all
people as a right in a cost-effective way. we're not going to tear up the affordable care act, i helped write it. but we are going to move on top of that to medicare for all system. >> you know, eugene, what was interesting about bernie sanders' defense of his larger proposal is some of the talking points were republican talking points that you hear about obamacare. large premiums, underinsured. where have you heard that before? hillary clinton, though, very much defending this whole thing. >> exactly. >> i think that was as easy of a way to show an example of what this debate was about. >> it was what this debate was about and what these two candidates are about really. hillary clinton, let's talk about her record on health care. she tried for what was essentially a single payer system when her husband was in office. she failed at that. she has now embraced the approach president obama took and she described it, as a matter of fact, saying we have to begin with the private insurance system the way it was and try to modify that and
broaden it to include more people. and that kind of who she is, in a way. >> i want to think about the average 22-year-old. and when they hear -- who is getting engaged in politics. and they hear one candidate say i don't know if you can go through a health care debate again. we have health care fatigue. it cuts you right here. i think the 50-year-old swing voter says right on. i think the 22-year-old idealist says, no, no, no, i'm with that guy. >> exactly, exactly. >> i think hillary clinton was speaking to swing voters and the fatigue issue and bernie sanders is speaking to the heart. >> right. his predominantly young voters who didn't go through that fight really. who don't really remember the affordable care act fight necessarily, the way you and i would, and certainly didn't go through the clinton era fight over health care and don't know that whole history. and look around the world and say, what developed country doesn't have a single payer system. and there's one. this one. >> now let's go to where bernie
sanders was on defense and hillary clinton was on offense, on the issue of guns. it was very early in the debate. and of course, this debate featured a new position on the issue of what to do with gun manufacturers and whether they could be held liable. we also heard a lot of talk about last summer's church massacre here in which nine people were killed by a a race-motivated white gunman. here's that part of the exchange. >> the gun manufacturers liability bill had some good provisions. among other things we prohibited ammunition that would have killed cops who had protection on. we had child safety protection on guns in that legislation, and what we also said is a small mom and pop gun shop who sells a gun legally to somebody should not be held liable if somebody does something terrible with that gun. >> i have made it clear based on senator sanders' own record that
he has voted with the nra, with the gun lobby, numerous times. he voted against the brady bill five times. he voted for what we call the charleston loophole. he voted for immunity from gun makers and sellers which the nra said was the most important piece of gun legislation in 20 years. he voted to let guns go onto amtrak, guns go into national parks. he voted against doing research to figure out how we can save lives. >> this was a part of the debate where she had his record down cold, and he just -- during this portion of the debate, this was bernie sanders, a goo who's been in washington a long time, trying to explain complicated votes. >> exactly. and one thing he wouldn't explain or really address was the premise of the whole discussion, which is that he just changed his position on holding gun manufacturers liable
or, rather, legislation that has kept them from -- >> giving them immunity from liability. >> exactly. he supported that and all of a sudden now he doesn't support that. he was asked directly about that, and that's the one point. bernie sanders, his whole thing is i'm a straight talker. you know, no artifice. he's a straight talker. yet on that issue he was really not a straight talker and never really acknowledged, yeah, i changed my position. >> he sounds like any old u.s. senator trying to defend some sort of issue. >> exactly. talk around it but don't hit the point. >> now let me go over to my colleague, kristen welker. she is already here in the spin room right now looking for campaigns, talking with the campaigns, seeing how they have done tonight. kristen, i'm sure everybody feels as if they won tonight. but how are they saying they won? >> we are just watching some of
the campaign officials walk into the room, chuck, but i can tell you we've gotten blasts from the clinton campaign throughout the night every time she makes one of these statements that you and eugene have been discussing on health care, on guns. so they clearly feel as though she had a strong performance and we're going to go and interview some of them in just a few minutes. but i want to go back to this point that you were discussing with eugene which is this strategy that we saw tonight from secretary clinton really hugging president obama and his policies in a more aggressive way than we have seen before and trying to suggest that bernie sanders is not aligned with them on a number of these issues. the strategy behind that is that it helps to rally the democratic base and also more diverse voters in a state like south carolina which could be critical if secretary clinton doesn't do well in iowa or new hampshire, chuck. >> all right.
all right, kristen. we shall see what they start saying. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, we're going to hear what some of the republicans are saying about tonight's debate, going out to new hampshire where a lot of them are campaigning tonight. we'll be right back. ight back.♪ ♪ those who define sophistication stand out. those who dare to redefine it stand apart. the all-new lexus rx and rx hybrid. never has luxury been this expressive. this is the pursuit of perfection. trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax constipated? use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief
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tonight's debate was not held in a democratic party vacuum, the republicans were watching. many of them were tweeting. the republican party even had a little gimmick that they tried to too here in charleston. let me check in with hallie jackson who's in manchester, new hampshire, covering the republican side of this campaign for months. hallie, what did you hear tonight from republicans who were watching this debate? >> a couple of key takeaways, chuck. one of the big ones seemed to be how far apart both parties are on the issues that are priorities to their base. the first question you heard the democrats talk about strengthening the economy, improving health care access,
uniting the divisions in this country. no mentions of national security, of isis, of the war on terror. republicans noticed, they quickly pounced, the gop sending out a tweet highlighting that none of the democrats brought up these topics. that is something that didn't get spoken about until over an hour into the debate. i wouldn't be surprised to hear some candidates on the campaign trail bring that up in their stump speeches in the next couple of days trying to paint the democrats as weak on national security. other big topics we heard from candidates reacting tonight, gun control and health care. two areas of real distinction between the parties. you saw people like marco rubio tweeting out and rubio's tweet seemed to sum up the republican reaction. two hours of this? imagine four year, he wrote. rand paul, who by the way didn't show up to the last republican debate after he was relegated to undercard status, was live tweeting the democratic debate. more visible for this debate than his own party's. tweeting are they going to ask the democrats tons of questions
about donald trump or is that just for us? interestingly, trump was not a factor during this particular debate for the democrats. remember the last democratic debate hillary clinton largely looked past her rivals on stage to talk about trump. that was certainly not the case this time. and trump himself was quiet on social media and really didn't tweet about this at all. jeb bush did, taking aim at hillary clinton. that was another theme we saw from the republicans tonight trying to hit who they believe could be their potential general election contender. chuck. >> hallie, you were right about summing it up. there is one focus the democratic candidates are having and it is a discussion on a lot of domestic issues. and the republican side has really become all about national security and immigration. and everything else seems to be down a notch. hallie, we'll check back in a little bit later, thank you. another big issue tonight was the issue of wall street. bernie sanders was on the attack while hillary clinton was on the defensive. here's a little bit of that wall street exchange. >> can you really reform wall
street? when they are spending millions and millions of dollars on campaign contributions and when they are providing speaker fees to individuals? so it's easy to say i'm going to do this and do that, but i have doubts when people receive huge amounts of money from wall street. >> three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. >> what i found fascinating there, eugene, that was the first time -- you know, sanders had been a little bit kid gloves on hillary clinton. he went there on speaker fees. >> he went there. he made it very personal. >> goldman sachs speaking fees. >> you've been taking those speaker fees, $600,000 was the figure he mentioned in a year from goldman sachs. so he really -- you know, this point that he's emphasized on the campaign trail, his crusade against wall street, his belief
that the system was rigged and the big banks have to be broken up and wall street has to be brought to heel. and he clearly believes that hillary clinton disagrees. >> and this was another moment where you saw hillary clinton wrap herself in obama. >> yeah. >> tell you about dodd-frank. and who did dodd-frank? president obama. let me bring in -- we'll bring in surrogates for all of the campaigns. the first one up is pat devine, chief strategist for the bernie sanders campaign. i assume you thought it went well. >> we did. >> let's get that over with. it was a different bernie sanders tonight. he was aggressive and went after hillary clinton on a lot of things. we just talked about. i'll be honest with you. i remember you saying a few months ago that that wasn't the type of campaign we'd be seeing. why bring up speaking fees? is that not a personal attack? i was surprised from you guys. >> i think the goldman sachs settlement this week of $5 billion did appall bernie. also he's just decided there are big differences between he and hillary clinton.
we made an ad about it. people went crazy over the ad but it's a straightforward thing. there's two different democratic visions about what to do about wall street. there's a wall street democratic vision and there's bernie and others, elizabeth warren in the democratic party who believes we need to take them on and we can't take their money and take them on at the same time. i think it's a legitimate fight and i think he made it powerfully. >> there was another issue on gun rights in which bernie at least to my ears and i think everybody's ears never really answered the question. never really answered the question why did you change your position on immunity. >> well, he said a couple of months ago he's be open to look at. a piece of legislation came to him a couple of days ago. he said he's comfortable supporting it. he wants an amendment that says we should protect mom and pop gun stores. so changed position, you know, listen, characterizing bernie sanders as a guy who is terrible on guns, which is what hillary
clinton and her campaign is doing, is just not true. he's a d minus life rated guy from the nra. he has the best issue of anybody in vermont on the gun safety issue. >> look, to my ear, you hear bernie sanders on every other issue he wants to make big changes. he's ready to break up big systems this or that. on the gun issue, he sounded like another washington politician. >> that's not what i heard. listen, i know his record on guns. i know in 1988 when he ran for congress for the first time he lost that race probably because he said he would support a ban on assault weapons. i know he supported background checks since the early '90s. i know he's been strong on a lot of these things. yeah, there have been a few issues with differences but to take that and say this guy is terrible on the issue is just a bridge too far and that's why hillary's attack is going nowhere. >> not to say he's terrible on the issues but to say he's out of step with the democratic mainstream. i think that would be a fair thing to say. >> i don't and i'll tell you why. he's got a record of voting for
a number of common sense gun safety measures, like background checks, close the gun show loophole, get rid of the straw man provision. he's got a lot of votes on his record. you know, howard dean had an "a" rating. he was the current governor of vermont and had an "a" rating. if he was other politicians and had "a" ratings. ted strickland, a plus rating, that would be fair. but i don't think it is going to stick to him because he has a lot of very strong votes when it comes to guns. >> let me ask you, though, where do you guys go from here? when it comes to -- it was clear that hillary clinton's strategy was wrap herself in president obama. >> i noticed that. >> but it does imply that you guys -- are you wanting to build upon president obama's legacy or does he want to change a lot of things? it seems like he thinks dodd-frank didn't work, he thinks obamacare didn't work. what is it? >> he does want to build on president obama's legacy. he recognizes the president came into office at a time when this country faced perhaps a second great depression, that the president had to lead us out of that and he did. bernie wants to take us in a
different direction. his policies are different. health care is a right for all. he presented a plan for it. his foreign policy, i think a lot of it is very similar to what president obama does and i think hillary clinton is a lot more aggressive when it comes to military intervention, for example. so i think, yes, he wants to build on president obama's policy. but bernie wants to take us in a different direction, away from a party that's too beholden to wall street. he believes the economy is rigged and there is a corrupt system of campaign finance. that's our message. >> you got it all in. pat devine, strategist for senator sanders, thanks, appreciate it. let me take you over to kristen welker right now. i believe she has one of the actual candidates who was on that stage, none other than former maryland governor, martin o'malley. kristen, take it away. >> i do indeed, chuck. hi there. governor o'malley, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> how did you think the debate went? do you think you broke through tonight in a way that you haven't in the past debates? >> every time we have one of these debates we exceed expectations and that's what you
have to do as a challenger. it's a rough format. they tell you up front that all of the questions are going to the front-runners. you have to jump in. but i thought we did a very good job of laying out a vision of a new generation of leadership. i've actually gotten things done whether health care or comprehensive gun safety legislation and so i enjoyed tonight. >> let's talk about guns. that was one of the most heated moments of the debate. your argument to secretary clinton and senator sanders is they have both flip-flopped on this issue. is that really fair? and do you think that you moved the needle in that argument in any way and is bernie sanders being disingenuous by changing his mind? >> i think the reason we haven't gotten things done in washington on this is because it was standard procedure for politicians, senators, congress people, to kind of go back and forth on this issue. there's no moral clarity on this in our congress for a long time. yes, i believe it is true that secretary clinton and senator sanders have both flip-flopped a lot on this issue. i have not.
since 2003 i've been advocating for a ban on combat assault weapons. and then alone on that stage, i'm the only one who actually got it done as a governor. we didn't interrupt a single deer hunter's hunting season because of that. >> is that realistic given the current state of congress, a ban on assault weapons? >> i believe it is. i believe we can't give up. look, i laid out seven different executive actions that i would take and i'm heartened by the fact president obama has taken some of them. we have to keep moving to put it together. you can't relent or give up. >> you and i were talking about health care. you say that you see bernie sanders' health care plan as an attack on the middle class. did you need to be more aggressive on that point tonight to break through? >> i thought secretary clinton was being very aggressive on that. >> but did you need to be more aggressive? you're the one that needs to see your poll numbers go up. >> look, i thought i was relentless and aggressive talking about the fact that i've actually created a way to make the affordable care act work that reduces hospital costs and moves to global payments, and that was something i wasn't
allowed to do by format in the last two debates. i picked my moments. i didn't want to be part of their back and forth squabble really. i'm a former mayor and former governor. i'm about getting things done and actually making things work. that's what we're doing with health care. and the new england journal of medicine did an article three weeks ago saying this is actually working. this is reducing costs, this is keeping people well and what the future of health care could be. >> governor o'malley, let's talk about your broader campaign. your polls are in the single digits. at what point or do you reach a point when you say you're not seeing the increase that you need to see to stay in the race? >> i intend to let the people decide, especially the people of iowa, where i spent so much time. and then new hampshire will decide. that's what our democracy is all about. there have been many candidates that are where i am in the pols and people of iowa have a way of lifting up a leader and introducing that person to the rest of the country. i'm excited about caucus day and i'm going to continue to let the people decide and test their judgment. >> do you ever get daunted when
you wake up and see the poll numbers stuck there? >> yes, but i've seen john mccain and jimmy carter and other candidates in a similar position. with total respect to you and your colleagues, you rarely ever get it right when it comes to calling what the outcome of the race is going to be. the people of iowa won't be pushed around, they make up their own mind. >> governor o'malley, thank you so much. chuck. >> thank you, kristen. when we come back, we'll hear from the clinton campaign. none other than john podesta, the chairman of the clinton campaign. he'll assess how he thinks his candidate did. we'll be right back. shooting, burning, had th pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet were the first in my family to graduate from college, raised active twin girls, and trained as a nurse. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or
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joining me now, one of the moderators of tonight's event, a good friend, andrea mitchell. andrea, take me onstage. what happened? how was it up there? >> it was so stressful. you could feel the energy between those two candidates, obviously, clinton and sanders, because this race is so tight. an all of the anticipation with the fireworks we've seen on the campaign trail remotely came to a head, i think, when they were standing side by side. >> here's the part i love the most. what happened during the commercial breaks? >> they went off, you know, they went off to their corners backstage. o'malley was kind of schmoozing around. >> i saw him come up to you guys and i wondered if he was complaining about time. usually candidates do that to the moderatomoderators.
>> he said i wanted to say something about opiates. i think we covered a lot of substance. i did feel good about that. and we didn't talk too much about donald trump. it was a democratic candidate debate. >> a democratic debate for democratic primary voters. just the way -- just like a republican debate is for republican voters. >> and i do think that the fact that tomorrow is martin luther king day and we're in charleston, a block or two from mother emanuel and it was the congressional black caucus institute as one of the sponsors, we wanted to talk about these issues that black lives matter. >> did you feel the feelings in the room -- i felt like the room had a favorite. and it was -- >> it's hard for me to tell. >> it was interesting. >> because you were -- >> it was very interesting. i felt like the room was more open to hillary clinton than anybody else. >> well, she's got a lot of roots here. >> that's for sure. we'll check in with the clinton campaign and i'll bring in secretary clinton's campaign chair.
john podesta. good to see you, sir. >> nice to be with you, chuck. >> a lot of pundits are saying this is the bernie sanders debate. our friend chris cillizza called him the winner, called you the loser. not because she did badly. but because the debate was so focused and the spotlight was on sanders partially because he did a lot of things you've been asking him to do and did it in the last 12 hours. he changed his position on the gun immunity thing, put out a tax plan and a health care plan. >> i think he came in a little bit on the defensive because people are starting to finally look at both his record and his policy, and i think on the issue of guns, he did flip his position on liability. secretary clinton pressed him to do the same thing when it came to the charleston loophole, the loophole that permitted the killer at mother emmanuel to obtain that gun. he didn't go as far as he did on liability.
i thought that he reacted to the issues that she had raised on health care and threw out a whole new health care plan tonight after introducing the same plan for nine times over 20 years. so i think that, yes, he was doing a lot of talking, but he was doing a lot of explaining about both his record and his position. >> did you feel like tonight that, a, while the debate may have been dominated by bernie sanders, do you think that was a good thing for your campaign? >> yeah, i think it opened up a lot of issues, i think, that again, hillary was, i think, the only person on the stage that could really do all aspects of the job. i thought she absolutely dominated the foreign policy section. that was a smaller section of the debate. she talked very passionately on racial justice and not only on criminal justice issues, but that close that she did on the racial disparities that we saw play out in flint and the passion that she brought to that and the results that she gets
when she puts her mind to it i thought was really helpful. >> how concerned are you about the resonance of his wall street attack mode and what he says about campaign finance reforms? do you think she's vulnerable on that, because it seems to be -- >> speaking fees. he went right to the speaking fees. >> he went there and the young vote, the iowa vote. he's tapping into something there. >> look, i think we need to reform our campaign finance system, and hillary said that she would take an aggressive approach to that, appoint supreme court justices that would be -- protect the right to vote and not the right of billionaires to buy elections, reverse the issues in citizens united, have a wholly different approach and also put forward serious campaign finance reform plans that would put campaign finance back in the hands of voters. when it comes to wall street, i think she pointed out something
that was very important, which is he's painting with a very broad brush that includes many people who have tried to fight to rein in wall street, including the president of the united states, who took a lot of money from wall street in 2008, then turned right around and passed the most comprehensive wall street reform plan, the dodd-frank bill, when he came into office. so did barney frank. so i think -- who's written about this. so i think you've got to look at what people will actually do in office as well as, you know, i think it's fair for him to raise these issues, but the question is what are the plans going forward and what will you do when you're in office. >> is it fair to say that she wrapped herself with president obama at times. i can't tell you how many times we had a whole sheet here of all the different times that she said, i'm going to build upon what president obama started on here. >> look, i think she wants -- >> is it fair to say she wants a third term? >> she wants to build on success, she wants to do some different things, she wants to
get to some unfinished business, particularly raising wages, which have been stagnant even during his term, as he pulled us out of the recession. and senator sanders has, i think, a different philosophy. i think he has, as she noted, suggested that someone primary against the president in 2011 as he was beginning to run for re-election, she's called him weak. so i think that he has a different view. he wants a more radical change from where we're going. i think she believes that the president has done a good job and wants to build on that success, build on the success particularly of the affordable care act and, you know, bernie has a different view. >> how concerned are you about losing iowa? how concerned are you about losing iowa? >> look, i think we have a great organization there. we are going to -- as she has said many times, fight for every vote. we believe we can win iowa, we will win iowa. she's going there tomorrow and
we're going to fight to win the caucuses, and i think we're in a good position to do that. >> john podesta, go get your winter coat. a lot of iowa time in the next couple of weeks. youtube was a partner with tonight's debate and ourselves here at nbc news and we heard some interesting youtube contributors during the debate. my pal kristen welker is with one of them right now. i think it's franchesca ramsey. kristen, take it away. >> hey there, chuck, thanks. thanks for being here. you, of course, asked that question about how would the candidates, if they were elected, make sure that instances of police violence be investigated fairly. what did you think of the reaction and the responses that you got? >> well, i really only got one response and that was from bernie sanders. i thought he did a really good job. he has a lot of passion. it's clear that he really cares about the issue and i was so glad that he talked about the fact that there should be
regulations for if someone dies in police custody and that's something i would really like to see moving forward. i was disappointed that not everyone got to answer. >> was there anything that you wanted him to say that he didn't say? >> no, i felt really good about his answer. you know, i think that we need to make sure that we have an impartial, you know, group to come in and make sure that these instances are looked at in a fair way and i think the department of justice is the way to go on those issues. >> and tell me why this issue matters and resonates for you personally. >> well, i mean i think it's pretty obvious as a black young woman, you know, i have friends and family members and even myself, when we saw with sandra bland where i worry at times that doing the right thing and being a law-abiding citizen really isn't enough if we live in a country where, unfortunately, people of color and black people are criminalized and seen as a threat and then our lives are not taken seriously when and if something happens. >> i know you're still undecided in this primary.
did anything move the needle for you tonight? who did you think had a really strong night? >> you know, i think i'm going to have to say that i felt everyone did their best. i was a little disappointed that o'malley didn't get to shine as much as i felt he should have or could have. but i'm still kind of open to the possibility of being moved in terms of moving one way or another, but i'm kind of keeping my vote to myself. >> well, you are entitled to. anything you didn't hear talked about tonight or you wanted to hear talked about or you'd like to hear the candidates address on the campaign trail moving forward? >> i really think we need to talk a little more about lbgt issues. with the passing of same-sex marriage last year it was a huge moment for us but that's not the end when it comes to equality for everyone. when it comes to issues for trans folk, that's really important. lgbt is an issue i'm passionate about. and that's something that the
candidates need to think of moving forward. >> thank you for your question tonight during the debate and thank you for your fantastic insights tonight. francesca ramsey. chuck, i'll toss it back to you. >> thank you, kristen. we'll be back in a moment. we'll have more on the online reaction to tonight's debate, plus we talk with our friends and experts over from google. we'll be right back. ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.
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it's gotten thinner. even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. well, throughout the evening we've been tracking reaction well, throughout the evening we've been tracking reaction online and helping us in that effort is daniel sieberg over at the google news lab. daniel joins me now. daniel, you know i'm sort of a numbers geek. what have you got for me? >> hey, chuck, we got lots of numbers. we love numbers at google. we've been tracking the data all night over the course of the debate. we'll start with search interest around the candidates. if we look at a national map, we can see that the highest number of searches were around bernie sanders. you can see that across the country. so this is reflective of people wondering about maybe something
he said, different policy issues, but a pretty clear indicator of where the searchers went. we also found a lot of interest around goldman sachs as a trending term, a spiking term, if you will. in fact, at one point it spiked about 758% over the two hours of the debate. we heard it come up in the course of bernie sanders talking about big banks. hillary clinton referencing it a number of times. so people wanting to know a little bit more about goldman sachs itself. and then we also saw a lot of search interest around iran as a country that came up in the context of the nuclear accord and people had some questions and they turned to google to get some clarity on that. we saw things like is iran sunni or shia. why are we giving iran money. is iran now able to join the world economy? just some of the questions people had as they heard it mentioned during the course of the debate. and finally gun control we know
was a big topic over the course of the entire debate and we saw spikes with both candidates. i should say all three candidates but primarily talking about hillary clinton, we could see a 200% spike over the course of the three hours and then with bernie sanders we saw a slightly higher increase at about 350% over the course of those three hours. just some of the trending terms. of course health care was in there, some issues around the economy. all of this data available at google.com/trends. if data geeks out there like you and me want to dive into it even further. >> daniel, i can't get over your map. you were showing the candidates and you had all these nice colors. bernie sanders was purple and the whole country was purple. that says a lot right there. i mean i feel bad that not a single state where clinton or o'malley topped sanders in interest. is that the best way to look at that in google searching interest by state? >> that is how to look at it.
hard to know, looking at that map, how much more search interest there was for bernie sanders depending on which state, but certainly if you look at the map nationally, that was the most amount of search data was around bernie sanders. for whatever reason. again, it could be whether people agreed with what he said or not, people had a lot of search interest. >> all right. daniel, thank you, sir, appreciate it. right here in charleston as many know what happened in this city exactly seven months ago, it's still very fresh and it's a very fresh memory for this community. a race motivated white gunman first went and prayed and then shot and killed nine african-americans during a bible study meeting at the historical mother emmanuel african-american episcopal church. one of the steady voices in the day after the tragedy was that of democratic congressman jim clyburn of south
carolina, and he joins the table right now. always good to see you, sir. >> i appreciate it. >> you're still neutral in this race, i believe. >> yes. >> and you plan on staying neutral. how long will you be? >> i don't know. you know, i made a promise to the national party that i would stay out of it. to be able to give south carolina this spot. >> the early spot here. >> so i've kept that promise so far, but with each passing day i'm getting more and more emotionally involved in this discussion. >> well, okay, all right. and you're getting emotionally involved with? >> well, with the whole campaign. i'm very concerned about the future. i have a new grandson and i'm thinking about what this country is going to be like for him. of course i've got two grandkids in college and i'm thinking about what graduation will be for them and what will they find after graduating.
and i'm just getting a little more emotionally involved. >> so what did you think up there, hillary clinton or bernie sanders? this is a two-candidate race, it's clear from the polls. no disrespect to governor o'malley. who do you think got the upper hand tonight? >> i don't think either one of them got the upper hand. i think on foreign policy issues, it's clear that hillary is far advanced of bernie on that issue. on the domestic side, income inequality, these issues that are burning at people, i think bernie put himself very well with those issues, but i would say neither one of them hurt themselves tonight. >> and here in south carolina, people have talked about how bernie sanders is doing so well in iowa, obviously ahead in new hampshire and that this is her firewall. he has some traction in nevada with the unions as well, another caucus state. when he comes down here to south
carolina, she has to do well and she's reportedly so far ahead. what's happening with him here, though and his attempt? he's working so hard to build his credibility with african-americans in particular and with south carolina democrats. >> well, at the moment this is a firewall for her. there's no question about that. she's way ahead in south carolina. but as happened in 2008, iowa can change the dynamic very quickly. if it's close in iowa and new hampshire, she can lose both those states and not get hurt badly. in fact it doesn't even have to be close in new hampshire if it's close in iowa. if it's a blowout, ten-point loss -- >> in iowa? >> in iowa, it would redefine the race. >> what do you mean by redefine the race? >> i'm sorry? >> i'm sorry, what do you mean by redefine the race?
>> i mean south carolina could do this year what it did in 2008? >> how's her organization? >> she's got a good organization. >> a good organization? >> oh, yeah. >> is it built for a firewall? >> yes, it is. but it's not built for a blowout. >> very interesting. >> and how's his organization here? >> good. it's much better than i thought it was two weeks ago. what i found since i've been home on this break is that he's doing well. >> here's what i just figured out. i'm not playing poker with congressman jim clyburn. i cannot read your face. i have tried to see. i think he's leaning there, no, he's leaning there. all i know is you're a pretty good poker player, sir. >> i hope so. i can't count too well so i don't play poker. >> congressman, thanks for being here. >> thank you for your hospitality. >> we're also watching this debate with a group of iowa voters. they are in urbandale, iowa. a suburb outside of des moines. danny freeman is with them tonight.
it's an informal focus group. we're not going to pretend that this is all gathered. look, we know we gathered a bunch of iowa democrats. what did you hear tonight, what did you learn from them? >> well, we had a lot of differing views tonight here, chuck, but it was an enthusiastic crowd in urbandale, as you said. remember, tomorrow marks two weeks toward the iowa caucuses. so this is a time when all these iowans are starting to pay attention. first, on the issue of guns, a topic that went back and forth. suzette, right to you first. clinton attacked sanders on guns and laid out a list of his policies that she maybe didn't agree with. how did you feel that played for clinton? >> i think it played pretty well for clinton. she's obviously very knowledgeable on the issue, probably much more knowledgeable than i am. so did it hurt bernie? i don't think so. >> so then another issue that was -- that came up was sanders passing on attacking clinton on the issue of bill. they brought up sanders' comments from a few weeks ago.
how do you think that made sanders look? this is the third debate he's taken a pass at really going at him hard. what did you think? >> democrats in general look at the issues as compared to the republican party, they just really were looking at changing -- bringing up issues that matter to people. and it comes down to, you know, people don't care about individual issues of attacking and what media can do to try to change it and twist the story. >> i appreciate that, adam. now, you have a number of undecided but definitely likely democratic caucus goers here. they had a great time. the one thing they did say was they wished martin o'malley had more time to talk. back to you, chuck. >> i think martin o'malley would agree. danny freeman, great job there. one of our embeds in iowa. i'll be seeing you soon, getting my winter coat ready. ready for the final sprint. we'll be back in a moment and have the chair of the democratic party right here, debbie wasserman schultz. stay with us. bbie wasserman schultz. stay with us. check this out, bro.
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we're back here in charleston wrapping up our post-debate coverage. we're joined by the chairwoman of the democratic party, debbie wasserman schultz. who represents robert county. >> and miami-dade county. >> you do have a piece of miami-dade even though you're a broward gal. straightforward, how did you feel like this debate went? >> you know, for the democratic party, we put our best foot
forward tonight. we had three candidates really show why they deserve, any one of them, to be commander in chief. focused on the issues that are important to americans, drew a dramatic contrast between the food fight that they had on the republican stage on thursday night. republicans continue to double down on who they're going to deport and who can deport them faster, on which religion they're going to bar from entering the country just based on who they are. our candidates talked about how to make sure people could get good access to health care, a good education. >> are you nervous at all that they were getting a little too -- this is the first debate where they went at each other a little bit. >> it's a debate. it's okay. >> you don't mind it? >> no. especially because they stuck to the issues. i mean they drew maybe sharper points on how they'd approach different issues but it was really substantive. >> jim clyburn just told chuck and me that if bernie sanders
has a proceedout in iowa, it's going to redefine the race here in south carolina the way it did in '08. >> well, i think that we are going to continue to have a robust and spirited primary. it's going to be competitive for a little while and once the voting starts, you know, like every election cycle, we'll see what happens. >> all right. i have to leave it there. >> that's okay. >> because our marathon coverage is finally coming to an end. madam chairwoman thanks for coming on here. andrea mitchell, terrific job, you and lester were wonderful. this was a very spirited democratic debate as you saw. some contrasts were being drawn. there was a large focus on bernie sanders. it was hillary clinton wrapping herself a bit in president obama. the march to iowa now begins. 15 days, two weeks from tomorrow are the iowa democratic caucuses. you'll be able to watch all of this on nbc and msnbc. i'm chuck todd in charleston. for all of my colleagues at nbc news and msnbc, have a good night. at every turn...
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this sunday, the this sunday, the democratic showdown. that object in hillary clinton's rearview mirror is closer than she appears, she now knows she's in a dead heat in iowa and new hampshire. >> if he has a plan he should roll it out and explain it to people so you can make an informed decision. >> hillary clinton and bernie sanders join me this morning. plus, the republicans. donald trump opening an even bigger lead. while the trump/cruz bromance comes to an end. >> bank loans from goldman sachs, bank loans from citibank folks. >> this morning, two republicans hoping to benefit from the trump/cruz fight, senator marco rubio and former florida governor jeb bush. and my sit down with amal clooney, the human rights lawyer and wife of george clooney