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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  January 20, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PST

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see guys like huckabee ahead of jeb bush and marco rubio. so basically the take away is that originality and being able to kind of be authentic on social is what is leading this election. but it doesn't necessarily translate to votes. >> thank you so much. i'm going to think about that. i didn't understand it. but thank you, david corn. and thank you heidi. by the way, that does it for "hardball." i'm sure it was brilliant. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on all-in. >> no more pussy footing around. >> donald trump gets a thriller from wasilla. >> he is the master at the art of the deal. >> sarah palin picks donald trump for president. >> are you ready to make america great again? >> tonight, what this means for iowa and the last ditch republican effort to stop this endorsement. >> this is going to be so much
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fun. >> then state of emergency. as michigan's governor addresses a state in crisis. tonight, my exclusive interview with flint's favorite son michael moore. on the manmade disaster in his hometown. and where he stands on hillary versus bernie and the hidden history of billionaires and the rise of the radical right. jane maier on her new book "dark money," when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes with 13 days until the iowa caucuses, the fight for iowa is tight. but donald trump and ted cruz were effectively tied in the latest polling from the hawkeye state. lobbing increasingly nasty insults at each other as they scramble for advantage. today the most loathed figure in modern republican politics stepped into the fight. sarah palin the former alaska governor, 2008 gop presidential candidate showing up in ames,
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iowa to officially offer her support to donald trump and throw a huge wrench into cruz's best laid plans. >> this is going to be so much fun. are you ready to make america great again? he is beholding to no one but we the people. how refreshing. he is perfectly positioned to let you make america great again. are you ready for that, iowa? no more pussy footing around. our troops deserve the best. you deserve the best. are you ready for a commander in chief? are you ready for a commander in chief who let our warriors do their job and go kick isis ass? look what's happening today. our own gop machine, the establishment, they who would
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assemble the political landscape, they're attacking their own front-runner. it's amazing. he is not elitist at all. oh, i just hope you all get to know him more and more as a person and a family man and what he's been able to accomplish with his -- it's kind of this quiet generosity. god bless you, god bless the united states of america and our next president of the united states, donald j. trump. >> the endorsement from palin who will attend rallies tomorrow is a major coup for the gop front-runner who cruz has been casting an as a fake conservative, a johnny come lately on issues like immigration who too easily capitulate to the left. >> he said the problem with me is i wouldn't go to washington and make a deal and go along and get along with the democrats. if you're looking for someone
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who is a dealmaker who will capitulate even more to the democrats who will give in to chuck schumer and harry reid and nancy pelosi, then perhaps donald trump is your man. >> the speculation palin could endorse trump kicked off sunday night when trump teased a major announcement and a an special guest. a conservative message board showed a private jet from alaska arriving into iowa. a cruz spokesperson asked about palin potentially endorsing trump, a cruz spokesperson telling an interview if she backed trump, it would hurt her brand as a conservative champion. you can perhaps understand why the cruz campaign was taking the news so hard. palin had endorsed cruz in his texas senate run in 2012 and cruz cut ads with palin lynn credited her with his eventually victory in that race. >> let me tell you something, i
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would not be in the u.s. senate today if it were not for governor sarah palin. >> by this morning, the cruz/palin relationship turned sour after cruz's spokesperson cast doubt on sarah palin's conservative cred, bristol palin, sarah's daughter went hard after cruz in a blog post sarah palin would later tweet out. headlined is this why people don't like cruz? the post reads in part, cruz's flip-flop turning against my mom who has done nothing but support him and help him shows he's a typical politician. cruz then went into damage control mode. >> listen, i love sarah palin. sarah palin is fantastic. without her friendship and support, i wouldn't be in the senate today. and so regardless of what sarah decides to do in 2016, i will always remain a big, big fan of sarah palin's. >> amazingly, palin's endorsement of trump wasn't the only bad news he got today. at the iowa renewable fuels mm today, wa's governor
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says he wants to see cruz defeated in iowa. the amount of oil supply is a huge issue to agribusiness. >> i believe that would be a big mistake for iowa to support him. i know he's ahead in the polls. the only one they that counts is the one on caucus night. >> unlike cruz, trump was at that renewable fuel summit where he did his best to pander to iowa voters. >> the renewable fuel standard is an important tool in the ability to achieve energy independence for the united states. i do all in my power as president to achieve that goal. so far you agree with me, right? >> trump's busy day actually began with another big endorsement. he was at the john wayne birthplace museum in iowa where a wax sculpture of wayne was trump's backdrop. wayne's daughters saying john wayne would have backed trump.
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>> john wayne represented strength. he represented power. he represented what the people are looking today because we have exactly the opposite from john wayne right now the in this country. he represented real strength and an inner strength you don't see very often. that's why with this endorsement, it meant so much to me. >> wayne also represented something else, "i believe in white supremacy till the blacks are educated to a point of response," he told playboy in 1971. i don't believe in giving authority and positions in leadership and judgment to irresponsible people. as for ted cruz, he's hoping he doesn't end up haunted by what he said about palin in 2013. >> governor sarah palin drives the mainstream media bat crap crazy. it shakes up their entire world view, and you know what? she can pick winners. >> joining me now, msnbc
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national correspondent joy read, charlie piece and republican media consultant rick wilson. well, well, well, joy let me start with you. okay, what diagnose we see today? what was that? >> i have to tell you, i think we're going to look back at today as the quintessentially perfect day in the republican primary. in the sense that we found out what i've always called this three- legged stool of conservatism, the elites and evangelicals and blue collar wing of the party, there's actually four wings of the party. you essentially have the intellectual movement conservative wing is what ted cruz represents. i've been reading a lot of conservative publications about movement conservatism and intellectual conservatism. >> they love cruz. >> he's the harvard guy. >> he's both, that's why he's great. >> then you've got the real meat and potatoes base which isn't necessarily ideaologically
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conservative. they want more stuff. they want medicare, they want ethanol subsidies and their life to be made comfortable by the government. they want that feeling of power that america use today have when their parents were young. right? so he represents that fourth wing of the party. ie people think of these two as the same. i don't think they are. we also saw briefly there's a celebrity conservatism element, too. it's perfect you have john wayne, sarah palin, donald trump, reality show the conservatism. that is what was today. >> rick, what joyce said is exactly at the heart of the issue. because what's happening is trump and cruz go after each other, is cruz is pointing to all the apostasies of donald trump, right? and the fact he used to support single payer and he gave money to the clintons. you know, x, y, z. this question about what is conservatism? what does it come down to? sarah palin comes into vouch and
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say, all these elitists are telling you what this is. we know what it is. it's making america great again. >> look, there's a thing i've described as the troll party which trump is sort of energized and activated over the last six months. what's happened with the troll party element of this, they are very driven by the celebrity of trump and sarah palin is a reality tv star, celebrity, as well. she transformed from a political figure to a reality tv show figure. this is the singularity of the entertainment wing of the republican party where there's not a firm ideological underpinning anymore. sarah palin was always a populist who was seated in government conservatism but managed to flip that on its head in one day and essentially walk away from all the limited government part of her background and just embrace the yell louder, yell longer, be madder, be more furious division confident party. look, i think joy's right. this was one of those like
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crystal moments of the whole campaign where you had all these elements coming together at one time. i mean, every tv camera in country was on that event. it's great show. it's a great entertaining spectacle. and there's nothing else like it going on in the field. i think ted cruz's attacks on trump would have had more heft and more weight if he hadn't spent the last six months serving as the pilot fish to be donald trump's shark and following him amped and wagging his tail every time i'm trump said something absurd, ted cruz was sitting in the background with his thumbs up. it would have had more credibility and more oomph this recitation of trump's complete lack of conservative credentials of which he has none, it would have been a much more effective argument if he hadn't been trump's fan boy till yesterday. >> it's very funny to watch both of them go after each other. they spend six months saying nothing but nice things about each other. they've discovered how secretly liberal the other one is.
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charlie, i think we're getting down to here it, all politics, i want to be clear on this. i don't want to say this is just about conservatism. i think it is. all politics are emotional. all are about who you identify with. we use this term identity politics which is always used to talk about people usually people of color. all politics are identity politics which is what we're seeing in this campaign. to me the moment that sums up this campaign so far was this moment of trump chanting usa, usa, into a microphone. take a look. >> usa, usa. usa. usa. usa. usa. usa. usa. usa. thank you. >> trump -- charlie, has the trump campaign. that's it. that's the trump campaign in ten seconds. that's what this campaign has been. >> i'm glad he did that because if he farmed out to governor palin, i'm not sure she would have been able to spell it.
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look, i refuse to look upon then whole event today as anything besides spectacle. if it is a pivotal moment in american politics, then this country is screwed from hell to breakfast. you've got -- i'm sorry. you have a not particularly bright person auditioning as court jester to a clown basically. that's the sum total of what happened today. i mean, with all due respect to rick, the republican party is, has been forcing its presidential candidates to look ridiculous for two cycles now. i mean, marco rubio is talking about having bought a gun pore christmas because he wanted to defend his family against isis as the pickup trucks come up biscayne boulevard 37 chris christie is talking about how he's going to undo michelle obama's healthy food and let kids in middle school eat whatever they want for lunch. jeb bush is just ridiculous on the face of it.
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i don't think you have to be born a cynic, although i was, to wonder exactly how much this endorsement cost. >> huh. >> but at the end of the day, it's interesting because for decades, you've had rush limbaugh and the sort of conservative entertainment complex holding together these various wings of the party as if there was a core belief in a set of specific conservative values among the base. when it turns out what the base wants is a feeling that can be delivered by rush but some policies that are apostasy to movement conservatives. >> mike it will wrote this piece today in the week where he looked at this samuel francis, a white supremacist, who sort of started out main street conservative who was an advisor to patrick buchanan. beak said your best path is get rid of all the conservatism stuff, all the limited government deficits and just go whole who on essentially eth-nationalism and michael
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writing about the trump campaign says what so frightens the conservative movement about trump's success he reveals just how thin their support for his campaign is. it says the republican party doesn't need all these think tanks or supposed policy expertise. look at these people calling themselves conservatives. these people are worthless. you don't need them and you're better off without them. what do you think of that, rick? >> first off, i think that's absurd. there is definitely still a very significant portion of the party that is a limited government conservatism based faction of the overall coalition. now, the screamers and the crazy people on the alt right as they call it who love donald trump who have plenty of hitler iconography in their twitter icons. >> they sure do. >> view trump was at the greatest thing. it's something.
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most of them are childless single men who masturbate to the and i may. these are not people who matter in the overall course of humanity. that's really driving the republican party is a limited government conservatism that is industrial a structure built around a government less intrusive, less taxes, less government, more freedom. we don't always get there in a direct way. but that is still what drives this party. there's also a morning part of the party that is still trying to sort itself out on what the balancing test is between the limited government side, the national defense side, 9 social conservatism side. i don't think this other stuff trump is toying with is mart of the mainstream conservative movement by any stretch of the imagination. >> rick, the question to me is this is all going to be tested, right? which is to say i agree with you. there are large parts of people who are avowed republicans and conservatives who genuinely care about limited government.
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we're seeing this sort of electoral test. that's what makes today so fascinating, what happens -- we are dealing with this sort of seismic question about what exactly we're looking at as a 21st century isn't republican party. joy reid, charlie pierce, and rick wilson, thank you all. >> thanks, chris. >> still to come my interview with author and flint, michigan native michael moore about the public health crisis in his hometown and what he thinks of the 2016 race. first, that was heart breaking news from the campaign trail today for one of ben carson's campaign volunteers in iowa was fatally injured after the van he and three others were in flipped over and hit by another car. according to a statement from a local hospital, 25-year-old braden joplin died following an auto accident on slick roads near atlantic, iowa. three other passengers in the van were treated and released. ben carson seen here with joplin has suspended his campaign and is traveling to meet joplin's
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family tonight.
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>> to you, the people of flint, i say tonight as i have before, i am sorry and i will fix it. no citizen of this great state should endure this kind of catastrophe. government failed you. federal, state, and local leaders by breaking the trust you placed in us. >> governor rick snyder of michigan remarking on the lead contamination the city of flint's water supply just moments ago. snyder announcing he will release his e-mails on the matter from 2014 and 2015. said he's requesting from the state legislature $28 million more in assistance for the city. this as anger over his leadership over the public health crisis reached a boiling point. snyder acknowledged in an interview with the national journal this loss of public trust and conceded his administration's response to the
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matter has been akin to the response to hurricane katrina. he's a disaster he admitted. he's clearly a negative on what we've accomplished since i've been governor. my next guest thinks snyder should be in jail for it. filmmaker and son of flint michael moore will join me next.
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president obama met with the mayors of flint, michigan at the white house today as the white house widened its response to the lead contamination in the city's water supply. the administration naming an official from the department of health and human services to coordinate federal efforts to help flint deal with the crisis. dr. nicole lurie will travel
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there tomorrow. as for president obama who is expected to attend the detroit auto show tomorrow, the white house says there are no plans for him to travel to flint. president has already declared a federal emergency in flint which allows for up to $5 million in aid. mr. obama however has denied a federal disaster declaration which would free up more money. the head of fema noting flint's water contamination does not meets the legal definition of a disaster under federal law. rick snyder announcing just an hour ago he will appeal that decision. the two leading researchers on this water crisis who are sounding the alarm for months say they believe a legionnaires disease outbreak in the area which killed ten and sickened 80 is related to the city's water contamination crisis this as nbc news reports e-mails made public through records request shows officials knew as far back as 2015 that the residents may be
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drinking water with high levels of lead. the federal agency admitted authorities had not moved quickly enough. >> in april 2014, flint switched from detroit's water supply to save money. immediately, there were complaints about its taste and smell. in february, 2015, the first tests showed elevated lead levels. officials insisted the water was safe but that june an epa official wrote a report warning that the lack of any treatment for lead is of serious concern. officials discussed those concerns but took no action while children and others continued drinking the water. in september, 2015, independent researchers is discovered alarming levels of lead in children's blood. six days later, the governor publicly acknowledged the problem. it wasn't until this month nearly two years later that the governor declared a state of emergency and asked for federal help.
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>> just moments ago in his state of the state address, governor snyder called for accountability on the matter. >> for those whose mistakes contributed to this disaster, we are fully cooperating with the investigations and will hold those individuals accountable. and let me be perfectly clear to all of state government, in situations like this, they must come to my desk immediately no delays, no excuses, period. >> joining me now a man who called for governor snyder's arrest, son of flint michael moore. i wish it was under better circumstances for your hometown. >> well, thanks for having me on here, chris. and the governor just now listening to that, he, he's appealing, he wants it declared a disaster area and it should be. and who should know better than this governor because he created the disaster.
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he admitted today, i said on saturday i said this is his katrina. but actually, i was wrong in saying that. because today he admitted it is his katrina but bush didn't company create the hurricane. >> yeah, in katrina, there was a storm that was mismanaged. >> there was no storm here. this was clean water we were drinking since i was the age of 10 in flint. we were drinking this water in genesee county. it came from lake huron. when they say detroit water, that's just because it's filtered through the plant in detroit. >> it's coming from the lake. it comes from a glacial lake there since the ice age, created 10,000 years ago. it's a pure body of water. the third largest body of fresh water in the world. that's what we have access to in michigan. the irony, it's not even the right word. it would be happening to us in michigan is just so outrageous and the thing is that the
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governor knew about this, the governor, his office, his people, his so-called environmental office au packed with cronies, not real scientists or real environmentalists this they did this to the people of flint. have i been calling for attorney general lynch to investigate, arrest, prosecute him for a crime that was committed. a crime of both fraud, of covering up and of polluting the water. you've got to understand this. people of flint were drinking this clean water from lake huron. he wanted to save money. he removed the mayor and the city council because the town had gone bankrupt. and then. >> and did this to a bunch of municipalities, very controversial emergency manager law. >> you guys here at msnbc and especially rachel has covered this emergency manager thing from the beginning, she's covered this story from the beginning she could get elected to anything in flint right now. because people are so grateful because nobody in the national
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media was covering this in the way that you guys have covered this. so now here we are at this impasse. he is sending the national guard last wednesday. we've heard that on the news but i was there in flint this week. he sent seven national guard. seven. and they were all from flint. he just activated seven people from flint. >> 20 hand out water bottles. >> seven people who were already poisoned because they've been drinking the water for the last two years in flint to hand out bottles of water to their fellow poisoned citizens. there's been no big movement to do anything about in this. they've had a few state police handing out these bottles. this is all pr. the speech tonight he gave was pr. and president obama, i just don't know what i could do to convince him. he's going to be walking through the detroit auto show tomorrow looking at all the bright shiny cars that the automakers are planning to put out in the next ten years. we're like a ten-minute
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helicopter ride from detroit. if he would just come to flint, you know, don't fly into detroit and fly out of detroit and over and have that george bush moment of looking out the window at flint. we need his presence there, not just his doctor that he's sending and we're grateful for that from a health and human services department but we need his active presence and they need to declare it a disaster area. >> flint has been a sort of after thought in a lot of ways for a lot of people for a long time in this sort of process of deindustrialization. it's been hit by a million different troubles and problems visited upon it since the car jobs left. it was striking to me, marco rubio was asked about this issue. it's on the nightly news. it's no longer a nearby. it's on the front page of "the new york times". here is marco rubio responding. i want you to take a listen.
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>> look, that's not an issue right now we've been focused on. for me to give you a deeply detailed answer on it other than in general i believe that the federal government role in these things is largely limited. i'd love to give you a better answer. it's not an issue we've been quite frankly fully briefed or apprised of in terms of the governor the played in the state and michigan on these sorts of issues. >> let me fully brief marco rubio about flint. this is the town where the uaw was born. great sitdown strike of 1936, 80 years ago, created according to historians the middle class. it was created in flint, michigan because my uncle and others who were in that strike beat general mothers and created a middle class that didn't exist before flint. this was our gift to the world. that working people col actually own a home, send the kids to college, have a car.
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get a vacation. receive a doctor. all of these ideas came from that strike in 136. and the city built general motors into the world's largest and richest corporation. in rush for that, gm beginning about 30 some years ago, started moving jobs out of flint and moving them elsewhere, mostly to third world countries but also to nonunion states down south. and in doing so, wrecked the lives and the livelihoods of the people who built that corporation. and that was the first blow. it's been one blow after another decade after decade now, wall street came in and did their job on flint. the government has done it. and now it's like it was 200,000 people there before i made roger and me. now there's 100,000 left. 100,000 people got out. >> and 8,000 children under 6 who have lead poisoning because their own government poisoned their water supply. >> when we say that number 8,000
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under 6, the total number of kids under 6 in flint is 8,000. all the kids have been poisoned by this governor. >> listen, we, this has become a campaign issue on the other side democratic primary is contested. i want to ask you a question about that primary if you're willing to stick around. >> yeah. >> don't go anywhere. we'll be right back with michael moore.
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i'm back with michael moore. so you're a long-time supporter of single payer. made a movie about it called "sicko," a great film. single payer has become one of
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the central axis points in this primary fight between hillary clinton and bernie sand irs. are you going to make an endorsement? is there a candidate you're supporting in this? >> well, i haven't said publicly yet because i haven't been on tv till right now. let me say this. i flew to burlington, vermont in 1990 the year after i made "roger and me," bernie asked me to come up there and i endorsed him and did a rally for him in burlington when he first ran for congress. so i was, i'm probably the first endorser of bernie and have endorsed him all these years. having said that, while i have obviously many disagreements with hillary about her vote on the war and her relationship with wall street, whatever, i also in my first book in '96, i wrote a chapter called "my forbidden love for hillary." >> i remember that chapter actually. >> i've always really liked her, and not just in a.
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>> in a forbidden way yes, and i have this -- i thought earlier this year, if she actually is the nominee, i mean i think whoever is the democratic nominee is going to win. that's why people should vote for who they think the best person is. >> you don't buy bernie sanders will be a goldwateresque disaster. >> the opposite actually. bernie has a better chance of beating trump than hillary does. i personally believe that. i think whoever has that d. by their name will be will the next president unless people don't come out to vote. you need the democrat to be the one to inspire people to get out, really inspire people. i think the problem for trump is the math. not just the fact that he can't do math and by the way, that endorsement from sarah palin, i really thought i had turned on comedy central and was looking at darrell hammond and tina fey. that was beautiful.
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what she was wearing, i have one of those at home but i don't go out in public in it. listen, trump, 81% of the eligible vote in other words this country are either female, people of color, or young adults between the ages of 18 and 35. that's 81% of america. he has essentially upset and offended all three of those groups. >> yet, at the same time, i remember your book "downsize this," and the last chapter has you going to talk to the michigan militia. basically you make this argument these people who are in our politics reactionaries are basically part of this disaffected white working class ha has been hammered by deindustrialization, et cetera. sometimes you see that a bit in the trump phenomenon. >> i think sanders is right to try and appeal to some of those disaffected lost souls. remember the angry white guy over 35 only makes up 19% of the population. trump can't get to the white house with that. listen, i've sided by the end of
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this week, i'm in the middle of writing something right now in terms of who i'm going to. >> you're not going to make news here. >> is there another gift i can give you? obviously, my politics line up very closely with bernie's. we have a historic moment where we could elect the first woman president of the united states. and you know, i got invited to the white house by the clintons back in the day. and they were really nice to me. and i got to eat what i wanted to eat. it was all very friendly. >> no lefties tearing their hair out right now. >> we were going through the reception line. and bill goes i'm your number one fan. she grabbed his hand and goes no, i'm your number one fan. they're great. >> politics, yes. >> so you're going to write an endorsement coming out this week or soon. >> yes. i am. >> one more thing. oscars this year not a single african-american nominee. there are calls for a boycott.
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you've been very vocal about the academy and its problems. i want to ask you what you think of that, if you will stick around one more break. >> maybe i'll finish my endorsement during the break. >> stick around.
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>> that's not a bad idea. >> go to prison first. then become a politician. >> michael moore's previous films like "bowling for columbine" looks at gun safety, capitalism a love story and sicko" which examines our health care system. still with me, academy award winner michael moore. so there was this #oscar so white. there was real disgust of the fact these nominations came out. there's not a single african-american. this has been a persist at any time issue in the academy. jada pinkett called for a boycott. you said you tweeted i think that you're also going to boycott. >> i said i stand with spike and jada. this is wrong. not just in terms of the oscars but really it's the industry. i mean, i just served a term recently on board of governors a couple years ago an the oscars. representing the documentary branch. and i know that amongst the board of governors and the people that run the academy,
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they are absolutely disgusted with this all white nature that keeps happening every year. i think they're going to fix it. i think i and others who symbolically stand with spike and jada will help this along. but it's the industry, chris. it's an industry that's an all -- it's an industry that's so white and so male, it. >> and the academy, too. demographically too, the actual voters. >> because they work in this industry. literally i can go to l.a. for two or three days, let's say if i got to take some meetings for my next movie or whatever. >> something so hilarious about hearing michael moore utter the phrase take a meeting. > that should be filmed. just like me going around hollywood. but i literally can go in, they put me in a west hollywood hotel. i can go to a meeting in century strew, a meeting in burbank and santa monica and three days later, i've not encountered a single african-american in any
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position of any decision making power or authority. it is stunning how segregated the town is, how the industry is. you know, it's the general motors of that town. yet, you couldn't go to general motors in detroit and for three days at gm not encounter a black american who has some power there. so it's a real problem. it's got to get corrected within the industry itself. and as spike said today, there needs to be real affirmative action with this. and with race, with gender, you know, i ended up actually with this film coming out right now 11 of my people who have a producer title on it of the 11, eight are women. that's a very rare thing. it's rare, i've never had that many actually been able to -- you've got to really work at it if you want to have that sort of diversity in your crew. >> it's called "where to invade next." what a great pleasure.
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thank you very much for coming. > geez, thank you for having me. thank you and thank rachel wherever she is. she's already been elected to something in flint. >> thanks a lot. don't go anywhere. more to come.
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they are some of america's most famous billionaires and arguably most powerful. the koch brothers are at the helm of a vast political empire. you don't want to miss it.
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it's already one of the most talked about political books of the 2016 season, a five-year investigation into the secretive koch brothers and their vast business and political empire by a journalist who tangled with them before. it's called "dark money, the hidden history of the billionaires behind the rise of the radical right." the author of is jay maier who says she became the target of smear campaign after publishing
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an expose on charles and david koch's political organization. critical coverage like mayer's led the kochs to overhaul their press strategy by launching an ad campaign and working on bipartisan issues like criminal justice reform. in the meantime, however, they've continued to grow their campaign war chest amazing a reported $889 million to spend on the 2016 cycle more than double what the republican national committee spent nationwide in 2012. maier's new book which grew out of her work at the new yorker has generated huge amounts of buzz and advance press including a "new york times" article on one of the book's most eye catching claims that the koch's father fred helped construct a nazi oil refinery crucial to the third reich's ward buildup. fred koch writing in a 1938 letter although nobody agrees with me, i'm of the opinion the
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only sound countries in the world are germany, italy and japan simply because they're all hard working hard and working hard. when you contrast the state of mind of germany today with 1925, you begin to think this source of idleness feeding at the public trough, government its with which we are afflicted is not permanent and can be overcome. the copes declined to pay the from the book but a spokesman said if the content is reflective of her previous reporting the kochs' political involvement, we expect to have a strong objections to interpretation of the facts and their sourcing. we reached out to the koch brothers 0 to join us tonight. we have yet to hear back. coming up after the break, jane maier takes us inside the koch empire.
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joining me now jane maier author of the new book "dark money." >> good to be here. look, i read the you know, koch brothers built nazi oil refinery and that quote you think whoa. at some level no one is responsible for their parents' politics. >> absolutely. >> it's not on them that he had these sympathies. what is it germane? what is the connection in terms of how the political lineage goes from the father to the sons. >> a couple things have gone on here. it's a hidden chapter of the koch industries history.
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it's the second largest private company in america. it's very consecutive. they have a website of their history. their chapter is missing having to do with the father's role in the third reich. so it's. >> this was the same company. there was koch industries or. >> yeah, i mean the father made his fortune really in a process he developed for refining oil and first he did it for stalin and then he did it in for hitler. hitler literally green light there had refinery. it was very important to the nazi war effort. and so it's not to say that he's a nazi. but the other thing is that the kochs have kind of set themselves up most recently as kind of experts on corporate morality and charles koch has a book out called "good profit." they need to grapple i think with the entire history of how they made their money and this is just part of it. so but you know, then there's
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another thing which is finally the father comes back after his adventures abroad. and particularly after working with stalin, he becomes an absolutely just one of the most anti-communist people in america. he helped start the john birch society. it's those views that he hands down to his sons. and he helps indoctrinate them and brings them up. >> the kochs will say we believe these things and believe them genuinely and we want to see a smaller government. it's not just a sort of convenient excuse for our economic interests, right? even if they happen to align. what does your reporting bear out about the sort of this ideology they have? >> well, i mean, i think you have to believe that they are true believers themselves. i this i they're very ideaologically extreme. they're fanatics about it particularly charles. but i find is kind of a useless argument about what's the difference because their
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ideology which they believe in is what's good for their company is what's good for america. they create jobs as they see it. they are good businessmen and that's what's good for america. there's to daylight between the two. i don't find it that useful in argument. there are times though i mean and i spent a lot of time reporting on this book, it took years. and what you do see sometimes is they will follow self-interest at the expense of sort of pure libertarian idealism. one example that very few people know about is that when obama -- when the tarp plan was presented very early on in the obama administration, putting money into bailing out the banks, most conservatives and all the tea party sort of people turned against it saying you know, why is the government helping. > crony capitalism. and the kochs have talked a lot about crony capitalism. but you know what happened? they originally were against
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tarp until the stock market crashed. you might remember it dropped something like 400, 500 points. when that happened, their main political organization switched sides. >> you know, that is interesting lost chapter. there are a lot of fascinating revelations in this book. jane maier, thank you for being here. >> that is all in for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> thanks to you at home for joining thus hour. this year, this summer, summer of 2016. the republicans are going to have their presidential nominating convention in the middle of july. and then the democrats are going to go after that. the conventions are usually early this year which means the parties will i can their nominees sooner than they usually do. that means in effect that the general election will last longer than it usually does. but in terms of nominating a presidential candidate, technically peeking the republicans are going to go first this year.

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