tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 25, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PST
fiscal cliff. he was the one who was more responsible than anybody for the government shutdown. he really not only does he dislike institutions and he's willing to destroy institutions, but he is probably the most disliked politician. this is a guy who almost everybody detests. >> robert reich, thank you very much for sharing your very thoughtful thought experiment with us tonight. >> i'm not endorsing trump. this is not a defense of donald trump, lawrence. >> i'm glad you clarified that. chris hayes is up next. thank you, robert reich.
>> are we going to see republicans who champion these videos change their tune on this now that the people who created them have been indicted for felonies? >> i think what you're going to see out of the videos more important than who crossed whatever legal lines is the fact that this is understood to go on and is an accepted practice. and that is -- and in some circumstances is legal. the question is, what it legal in the circumstances at issue in these videos. but the bigger problem that most of the republicans are getting at, the ted cruz is getting at, what does this say about us as a
country. is this okay? are people comfortable with selling aborted babies. >> not selling. >> call it what you want. >> that's the key point. that was the word used found by a grand jury not to be the case. i just want to make clear of that -- >> then explain -- so then you don't want your question answered. you want me to say yes to your declaration. >> i don't want that word used when that was the thing that was the point of debate. your point about people need to wrestle with the moral ramifications and i understand people who have your view -- >> and that is a bigger question in the context of a presidential race. >> right. >> than one case. >> understood. great to have you. i'm going to reserve the right to go -- have a conversation with you about the phrase what legal line was crossed in the future when we're talking about other stuff like abortion. >> those kinds of conversations
i like that have. >> thank you very much. all right. joining me now, betsy woodruff. this polling to me is really interesting. when the guns turned on ted cruz from donald trump, is this going to work or not? i don't know. no one knew. all this canada smoke blowing and mud -- the data seems to indicate it's working. >> you can't make an argument that it's not working. people love donald trump when he goes on the attack. angry donald trump, you know, mad donald trump, attacking donald trump is republican primary voters' favorite version of him. the attack line he uses that i think is the most interesting and unusual, is this idea that nobody likes ted cruz. that ted cruz loses the popularity contest. number one, it's right. number two, it's a weird argument to make. and i was talking about this
with an operative earlier this week. he said part of the reason that this particular argument is so hard for cruz to combat is because there's a difference between being a martyr and being a pariah. he thinks that perhaps voters can tell. voters have to get that out and at least based on trump's arguments they might be putting cruz in the pariah category, which is a problem. >> it is true that trump has now been attacking him in this way. you saw other folks supporting cruz turning that around, he's not there to make deals. ted cruz is saying, then i'm not your guy, trump is your guy. we'll see whether that continues to play out. my other question about the way this is closing in iowa is whether basically cruz has ended up on the wrong side of the expectations game. he was polling ahead. your polls are sort of like a
golf handicap. he may come in three points behind trump. everyone's going to declare that a big loss for him at this point. >> yeah, without a doubt. i know in the cruz campaign there were slight jitters that surfaced couple weeks ago, people were saying cruz is the favorite to win i iowa. the expectations went really high really fast and now cruz has to somehow rally and get enthusiasm back. one big thing cruz has going for him is his iowa task force or iowa strike force. it's about 800 volunteers all from outside iowa who've travelled to iowa on their own dime, are staying in these dorm type facilities and just making phone calls and canvassing and block walking. having that many people take time out of work and school because they like a candidate so much, that's the kind of thing polls don't show.
if cruz does win, people are going to be talking about that as part of the reason. >> that reminds me, when you describe that, i'm reminded of the dean campaign in 2004 which famously did that. the sort of myth tholgy is that upset iowans. does this attack that ted cruz is selling now, look at him talking about being pro-choice and not being from iowa, does that gain transaction? >> i think probably. if anything that we think we know about iowa is true, that attack has to work. if ted cruz can't run an ad of donald trump saying i'm very pro-choice, i support partial birth abortion, if that ad doesn't work in iowa, then up is down, left is right. we don't know anything. if that doesn't work, nothing will work. >> thank you very much. >> sure thing. still to come, is bernie sanders to 2016 what president
obama was to 2008? people have been making the analogy. now the president himself weighs in. and later,answer. later more on the shocking update in the investigation of planned parenthood i mentioned earlier. my interview with rand paul, the 2016 race and what people think of ted cruz. >> ted has made it very personal. when he made it personal to call individuals liars, people don't like that. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ bis committed to truth on the label. when we say real meat is the first ingredient,
there's one week until the the iowa caucus. if you're watching the polls, the picture on the democratic side is pretty confusing. but clarified in part by the new york thymes who explains there are two polls. polls relying on people who have previously caucused. as you can see in those polls, hillary clinton is ahead by as much as a whopping 29 points. in polls using random digit dialing, you call a random sample of registered democrats in iowa, many of whom have never
caucused before, senator bernie sanders is ahead in three of the four polls. judging by the polls, if santd sers going to win, he needs the votes of first-time caucus goers. a group that barack obama turned out in 2008 essentially splitting the voters of hillary clinton and john edwards. obama's real strength was young voters. pulling in 57% of 17 to 29-year-olds. that is a group that sanders has been counting on. in a grassroots campaign that has drawn comparisons to obama's 2008 run. the president himself was asked about what he thinks of that comparison. he had a fascinating answer. we'll bring it to you straight ahead. ♪ but i can't come home right now... ♪ ♪ me and the boys are playing.♪. ♪ ... all nig♪t text beth, what can i do...
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the democratic nomination would love nothing more than to expound at length on the topic. there is one problem. he has to play neutral. listen a he attempts to tip toe through the mine field of the sanders/clinton race. >> what hillary presents is a recognition that translating values into governance and delivering the goods is ultimately the job of politics. >> it sounds like you're not buying the sort of easy poplar dichotomy people are talking about he's an analog for you and -- >> no. i don't think that's true. i think bernie came in with the luxury of being a complete long shot, and just letting loose.
>> right. >> i think hillary came in with the both privilege and burden of being perceived as the frontrunner. i think if bernie won iowa or won new hampshire, then you guys are going to do your jobs and, you know, you're going to dig into his proposals and how much the cost and what does it mean and how does the tax policy work. he's subjected then to a rigor that hasn't happened yet. >> right. >> but that hillary is well familiar with. >> all right. joining me now columnist for the "daily beast." that last quote, to me, was such a tell. you will do your jobs. you're going to look at bernie sanders' proposals how much it will cost and he'll be subjected to a rigor he hasn't been yet that hillary is familiar with. you don't have to read through the lines.
>> no. and there's truth to what obama said there. and to be perfectly honest, chris, you know as well as i do. the reason sanders hasn't been subjected to the rigor yet is i don't know a journalist, frankly, who thinks he's going to be the nominee. now, you know, i don't know everybody, so i may be wrong. but generally speaking, people think that his candidacy is going to win one or two races and then fade out and she is probably going to be the nominee. so for that reason, he's not being subjected to the scrutiny that a, quote, unquote more serious candidate would be subjected to. >> let me respond to that and also talk about the interview. because they sync up. look, i think if you poll journalists, where would bernie sanders be now on the doorstep of new hampshire six or eight months ago. i think people thought it would be closer martin o'malley than
barack obama. i think people thought it was a symbolic thing. maybe he'll go around and rally the 10 or 15% of lefties in the party. everything that happened so far -- wouldn't you agree surprised expectations? without question. without question. you get 20 or 30,000 people showing up at the staples center and showing up at many other places. you're doing something and connecting with people. there's no question he's connecting with people in a big way. it gets down votes. he has to win not just new hampshire, i think, right. >> yes. >> people expect he's going to win new hampshire. he has to perform beyond that, and the little bit you had in the segment before i came on about the analysis of those polls and about the need that sanders has to get these new voters out to caucus, which is a hard thing to do in most circumstances, is going to be
one that he's going to have to deliver on to, you know, to get to that next level in his candidacy. >> and i thought it was fascinating to listen to the president talk about. you talked about in iowa the interview how it was the greatest political time of his life. that campaigning about how amazing that organization was and essentially there's no parallel to it. i don't think he meant as a swipe to sanders. i think he was saying people talk about getting new people out and don't understand what it means on the ground. but he also said this thing i think is true of sanders. when you win a state all of a sudden everything changes in terms of a level of scrutiny. we don't have any votes cast, and the world after donald trump wins the state, bernie sanders, or ted cruz or hillary clinton wins the state looks different than before anybody has won anything. >> you have a lot of momentum and a lot of questions. sanders would rather have the win and get the questions. >> that's right. >> it brings the momentum with it.
you know, my sense of things, chris, right now is that if he does not win iowa, the press, fairly or not, is going to start writing goodbye stories. even if he wins in new hampshire, which everyone expects had imto do. it's really pivotal for him and clinton, too. if clinton loses two in a row everybody still sort of thinks she's going to stabilize in the row. but if she -- she's going to have a long couple of weeks. >> michael, tomasky, thank you. what it would take for each candidate to win the nomination. tonight jeb bush. tender white meat chicken to perfection and mixes freshly-made pasta in an alfredo sauce made-from-scratch with parmesan, romano and real cream. ♪ because marie callender knows that the most comforting thing about comfort food,
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come back, how would it look. >> what you need to do is thin the field as much as he can while surviving himself. he needs for ted cruz to lose in iowa, trump, presumably. ted cruz has to win iowa. if you can eliminate cruz out of iowa, that would be a good first step for jeb. >> that's a key point. the same rooting interest applies to kasich, marco rubio, and chris christie. they're rouoting against cruise >> if cruz doesn't win iowa, it opens up lot of states after new hampshire. a lot of southern states to have a similar demographic profile to iowa. that opens them up. >> then let's say that trump wins iowa or he pounds cruz, which is possible polling now. >> you goat new hampshire. trump is blowing the needle new hampshire. if you're jeb, you love to wise up and win new hampshire. more realistically you win trump
wins but bush breaks out of the crowded establishment lane. a clear strong second place and ahead of rubio and christie and kasich and giving trump a care. losing fife or ten points. you're coming out of new hampshire. cruz is eliminated. all the other establishment candidates didn't pass the test in new hampshire. now you're bush and gate shot at trump. >> basically barrel toward south carolina with essentially being, you know, you and trump. >> that's it. then you go down to south carolina. >> all the other people will probably be around and have the money, too. >> are they marginalized? that's what we see a lot. if you go to south carolina and trump won the first two and cruz is out of it and the establishment guys are out or marginalized at that point, does the media say this is it. south carolina is the referendum republicans. do you want trump or go with bush and the bush family has a history in south carolina. we know they have saved political careers there. the father, the brother.
they saved their political careers in south carolina. >> in 2000 mccain was coming off the win. the w folks killed them. some say it was a lot of dirty politics. >> very. a lot of stuff happened. >> a lot of stuff happened. they know that stayed in the bush family and they have worked it over before. >> the tradition of south carolina lindsey graham said it when he endorsed bush. it goes with the most electable conservative candidate except in 2012 when they went with newt gingrich. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors, there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. you're not even registered; i'm done with you!
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those that kicked off a political fire storm last year. the grand jury in houston indicted david delighten and sandra merit, the videographers behind a series of secretly recorded videos of planned parenthood officials each on a felony charge of tampering with the governmental record which carries a punishment of up to 20 years in prison. daleiden was indicted on a second charge. the houston-based planned parenthood facility has been cleared of any wrong doing. the videos put out by the center for medical progress and anti-abortion group surfaced last year and proported to slow planned parenthood officials across the country discussing the cost of preserving fetal tissue donated for medical research. those videos kicked off a national controversy leading to calls for defunding the organization and prompting allegations of the organization was essentially selling fetal tissue for profit. as a texas tribune reports,
among the undercover videos were recordings of the staff of the houston-based planned parenthood gulf coast where they misrepresented themselves as research executives. harris county district attorney launched a criminal investigation into that planned parenthood facility last year at the urging of state republican leaders including texas governor greg abbott. anderson issued a statement that reads, we were called upon to investigate allegations of criminal conduct by planned parenthood gulf coast. as i stated at the outset of the investigation, we must go where the evidence leads us. meanwhile, as a houston chronicle reports the reaction from the governor's office of one of resistance with abbott vowing that the state attorney general and the texas health and human services commission will continue to investigate the videos. nothing about today's announcement in harris county impacts the state's ongoing investigation, abbott said. they will continue to protect life and i'll continue to
support legislation. joining me now the president of national planned parenthood. this is a turning turn around. grand jury investigates and they cut back and so no wrong doing. we're going to criminally indict these two people who made the video. your reaction >>well, you're right, chris. we've seen state after state there have been no findings of wrong doing. the only wrong doing is by the folks who perpetrated this scam. and planned parenthood our most important focus on the safety and well being of our patients, and we've been continuing to see patients in houston and around the state of texas ever since this started. we're grateful to the houston district attorney, a republican district attorney, i might add, who cleared us of wrong doing and indicted these two
perpetrators of the scam. >> you know this, obviously, people have their opinions and believes about abortion. right. and we know where the republican party is as a party and where the democratic party is. these videos were the proximate cause of tremendous outrage. there was an motion to defund. there were amendments that got passed in the budget bill. a lot got done on the jrnd lying videos when you now have the finding of no wrong doing. like, what do you want to hear from the politicians that ran with these videos? >> well, i think what is really important to remember, chris, actually even though some of the republican leader oppose access to health care and abortion. that's not where most main stream republicans are. i think it's time that those leading in the race for presidency that women in this country had the right to abortion for more than 40 years. it's something that the american people support. that's why i am out here in iowa
and the wind and snow campaigning as part of the planned parenthood action fund for hillary clinton. she's been a long standing supporter for of planned parenthood. >> do you see democrats being somewhat less defensive about the issue of abortion and reproductive rights than they have been in the past? >> i think that, you know, we're seeing every democrat running for office both nationally and most of the state level being full throated supporters of planned parenthood, of the health care we provide. i had to remind you that one in five women in this country have been to planned parenthood for health care. that's a lot of people. and i think what we see on the political attacks are made against the organization or against the health care we provide that people rise up. i've been overwhelmed by the support for planned parenthood all across the country. especially by young people who have never thought that these rights would be at risk.
>> you know i also have to take a moment to recognize the fact there were actual shooting -- people were shot and killed in a planned parenthood facility in colorado by the perpetrator that cited, essentially, the videos that were produced and sort of found to be -- the origins -- what is your feeling when you reflect on that? >> the videos have been discredited and as we saw in houston the perpetrators have been indicted. what we have said continually at planned parenthood is words have meaning. people should think long and hard when they stigmatize women and health care providers, doctors. there's nothing more tragic than what happened in colorado springs. it's important that all women be able to access health care in this country safely and without fear. that's what we're about at planned parenthood. >> all right.
cecile richard richards, thank braving the cold and wind. my interview with rand paul still to come. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive?
residents of flint, michigan are unable to drink or bathe in the city's water, they are still being asked to pay for the water. according to one resident, quote, it feels like a slap in the face after she received a bill for about $99 performe more on the crisis at flint next. hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks. for me... it's aleve. there it is... this is where i met your grandpa. right under this tree. ♪ (man) some things are worth holding onto. they're hugging the tree. (man) that's why we got a subaru. or was it that tree?
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tonight michigan governor rick snyder continues to fight for his political life at the magnitude of the catastrophe becomes more apparent by the state. promising to hold local and state officials accountable if any laws were broken urging people not to bathe their infants or newborn children in the bad water. some protested over water bills. over a thousand people have joined three class-action lawsuits naming a lit any of
state officials including the governor. snyder with the entire governorship and political career in jeopardy is engaged in a counter offensive. on friday he suspended two workers may be to blame for testing failures. he continued to attempt to shift blame to civil servants for ignoring outside experts warnings about lead levels. >> the point is our government people -- the civil service people didn't agree with their conclusions and didn't understand until a month or so later. that delayed our action plan and i feel terrible about that. i mean that's what drives you crazy about this. most state employees are fabulous people working hard. in this particular case, there was a serious cultural problem where they were far too technical and not using enough common sense. >> that interview comes less than 24 hours when jeb bush praising snyder for his response to the crisis. >>well, first of all, i think it's pretty clear when you have local, state, and federal age y
agencies not talking to each other, blaming each other, no one being held accountable you get this result. and it is a tragedy. i admire rick snyder for stepping up now. he's going to the challenge and he's fired people and accepted responsibility to fix this. >> the problem for rick snyder and others attempting to shift blame for flint's water crisis the more the story is reported out the deeper it goes. a bombshell report from the aclu over the weekend reveals that a snyder appointed emergency management team originally rejected using the flint river as a water source in 2012 according to a deposition obtained by the aclu. quote, the michigan department of environmental quality indicate they'd would not be supportive of the use of flint river on the primary source. that same water source was deemed suitable for consumption and up to the governor to answer for what happened in those months. rachel maddow will be hosting in
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to him about criminal justice, what it means to be part of the republican establishment, and whether the establishment wants to stop the momentum of ted cruz. >> there may be some truth. people see ted cruz and worry about authenticity. the question is some people get annoyed if you're part of a group that say most republicans were against obamacare, and if ted cruz makes it out like, oh, the establishment it's the reason we have obamacare is because the establishment republicans. it's not an honest attack. it's demagoguing something to make it out if i'm the hero against obamacare and every other republican is secretly for obamacare. people don't like it because it's not true and it's a way of using something to elevate yourself. >> do you think he's an inauthentic demagogue? >> there are authenticities about him. he vote forward bill to curb -- when rubio challenged he said i voted for it because it allows
the government to collect 100% of your cell phone records and my question is. he wants it both ways kind of thing. and that does concern me. on regime change he sounds like me sometimes. we shouldn't topple assad and have to be careful then he said he's going make the sand glow. so a lot of us in the liberty movement are like, well, indiscriminate bombing or carpet bombing or making the sand glow implies we're going to glow up the whole place. will that create more terrorists than it kills? >> he's a colleague of yours, and you worked with him. there's all these sort of raft of articles about basically people's contempt for the guy. how much they hate the guy. what is your feeling personally about ted cruz. as a fellow human being and a colleague. >> i try to treat things a little bit differently. if i go to the floor of the senate, i've been there for 13 hours and not called anyone a name. i might have in general said who was this for that. i don't call anyone specific lay
liar or call them an individual name or impugn their motives. i'm as hard core as anybody else about calling out and saying the facts. ted has made it personal. when he made it personal to call individuals liars, people don't like that. and people don't like making it real personal. it's okay for us to have an argument. but if i, you know, call you a name or something, then it gets too personal. we can have disagreement until we can make it personal and that makes it a bad situation to go to. we've used the term "establishment." i guess i wonder does it -- does the word make sense to you. does it describe some coherent concept. can you tell me what it means or is it sloppiness on our part? >> i think inside washington and outside washington, i think there's a disconnect. i think sometimes people elected like in 1976 they still think they're speaking to the same people who elected them in 1976. they don't realize, you know, it's been a long time. people have changed over time. but also, like, in washington,
for example, when we raised the debt ceiling an unspecified amount and for the right more military spending and left more welfare spending and took some of the money from social security. nobody outside washington is for that. when i told them at 3:00 in the morning when i was standing up opposing them is drive outside the beltway and stop at the first convenience store, talk to a republican, democrat, independent and ask them is it a good idea to borrow more money. i think nobody thinks its a good idea to keep borrowing money without any reforms. >> in some ways you have the best anti-establishment lineage of anyone. your father, in some ways, plowed this terrain of anti-establishment republican. he took on the party and his positions. do you end up getting your identity to em meshed in the establishment. has it been a problem for you? >> i don't think so.
what made this race an unusual race is that it's been shaped a lot by celebrity. i don't think we've ever had a race where one candidate got 25 times what all the rest of the candidates got combined. and i think having celebrity in the race definitely has skewed the coverage of the race. i think we've been led by polls. i think the media early on said there's too many candidates. we couldn't possibly cover this many. the polling tells us should cover. the problem is polling has been wildlier rattic, and, also when the media made that decision, they didn't know a lot about statistics or probabilities and polls have a margin of error and people within the margin are essentially equivalent. >> particularly down to 3 or 4%. the fine grain distinctions. one of the things you work order in the senate is criminal justice reform. you see -- i was looking, actually, at gaps of republicans and democrats on a bunch of stuff. one of the places where the gaps were narrowest on criminal justice reform. it seems there's some bipartisan
help there. tom cotton has come out against the bill you cosponsored with cory booker saying we're going to let a lot of violent felons out on the streets. we're the party of law and order. and channelling a kind of politics about law and order that was the main stream of both parties for a long time, particularly the republican party. does it still have teeth? >> i think he's making a mistake here. i think the country is moving in the other direction. a lot of us believe in second chances. when i saw peyton manning giving the ball to demarius thomas saying this is for your mom. i had a great deal of sympathy for his mom. he's been in jail for 15 years for a nonviolent crime. it doesn't mean what she was doing is correct or right. 15 years is a long time for a nonviolent crime. his grandmother is in jail for two life sentences apiece. the minimum she can get is 40 years for dealing drugs. you can shoot somebody in kentucky and be eligible for parole in 12 years. >> do you make the case, when
you're in a town hall in iowa among republicans, do you talk about in? what is the reception of that? is this something that people will vote for in your base? >> we'll see. i've been ending my speech with a story of a suicide after being kept in prison for three years without any trial. it's a very emotional story. ting should unite us to say it shouldn't happen anymore. in the bill i have with cory booker. this is cory's idea to get rid of solitary confinement for juveniles. >> if there's one thing i can hope america can come together on is getting rid of solitary confinement for juveniles. >> thank you. we have a late-breaking update. solitary confinement in an op-ed posted this hour and appearing in tomorrow's washington post. president obama announced several executive actions including banning the use of solitary confinement for juveniles in federal prisons
citing the devastating psychological consequences. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> good evening. thank you for joining us this hour. so this is the time when weird stuff starts to happen. i don't mean, you know, 9:00 on msnbc is when weird stuff happens. that's true too, sometimes. a week before iowa. it's around this time every four years when we get two things happening at once. first, beltway reporters start writing these whiskful reductive lull byes about how sweet and quaint everything is in iowa with the little iowa people going to their little caucuses and how little and pure it is. it restores your faith in the american political process. right. every four years. you get that stuff from beltway reporters. simultaneously every four years at this time, yet you see those articles from the beltway