healthier than a lot of my patients. >> 74, if elected, he would be 75 on inauguration day. >> yeah. >> making him the country's oldest president. could be interesting. >> we'll see. >> thanks for breaking that down. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" begins right now. >> if it's thursday, it's the last republican debate before iowa and it's hours from now. we already know that donald trump thinks he's the winner by not being there. you know what? he may be right depending how things go tonight. because the question is, who has more to lose at this debate? marco rubio or ted cruz? this is "mtp daily" live from des moines. we start right now. >> good evening. welcome to "mtp daily." so good to be in des moines
right here, i love being in iowa. my dad grew up. it's good to be here, good to be on the trail. we're going to be here for the rest of the days here until we get to the caucuses. of course monday nighting four days away from the state's first in the nation contest. tonight, the last republican debate before 2016 voting officially kicks off. and as you might have heard, the a debate that's missing the party's front-runner. let's get to tonight's take. donald trump has a commanding lead in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina. important note here, though, the reality of his iowa lead depends on caucus night turnout. sitting out the debate is a gamble. could pay off. trump might only lose traction by showing up at the debate tonight. but look when has something to gain. for the first time, marco rubio has spiked in our iowa poll to a strong third place showing. five-point gain from earlier this month. his first real push towards second place as ted cruz's
numbers slipped in his tussle with trump. with trump out of the way tonight, the debate could become a slugfest between rubio and cruz. of course, that could end up benefiting one guy, donald trump. but the upside for rubio is that he could raise himself up by knocking cruz down. the downside could be the opposite. that without trump on stage, cruz looks like the leader of the pack and rubio gets lumped in with the rest of them. potential good spotlight for rubio comes at same time as notable advertising changes for his campaign. politico first reported on shifting spending plans for rubio. that's code for, we've got a cash problem. campaign planned to cut nearly $1 million worth of advertising in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina. a week later, rubio spokesman said the campaign planned to roll out a slew of new 30-second ad buys in the hawkeye state. now the campaign has cut down tv ads again, and this time slashed another $100,000 in new
hampshire. rubio was once aiming for a second place finish. and he's cut $32,000 in south carolina. now, a source familiar with the campaign spending says the changes aren't financial fallout but, instead, simply strategy. we can tell you that's what you saying you never want to admit you have a money problem. rubio showered with attack ads. more than 20 million out of 55 million spent by jeb bush's pack has been spent on just attacking rubio. he's coming under fire from other candidates. just today, cruz not so quietly released a new tv ad in iowa coming after rubio. here's a clip. >> i
am not and i will never support, never have, never will support any effort to support grant blanket legalization amnesty. >> marco rubio was part of a gang of eight trying to secure amnesty. one of the architects of the plan, senator marco rubio, you are giving legal status to people who have broken the law. >> it was marco rubio that was a
member of the gang of eight and ted cruz that wasn't. >> it's the first rubio attack ad that comes
directly from the cruz campaign itself. rubio isn't shy noting the onslaught. what he mans to do about it is another matter a test in a new iowa add that he released today. >> america is exceptional. every generation before us met the great challenges of their time. but after seven long years of this president, we feel our country slipping away. this election is about defeating hillary clinton and saving what makes america unique. >> so rubio's keeping his focus on the long game, towards the general election. at least right now. but will a forward looking approach hold up as he scares up against cruz without a donald trump buffer. by the way, a bunch of other candidates that think marco rubio's in their way to becoming the chief establishment challenger. ted cruz wants a within on one
debate with donald trump but he does have to get through the debate tonight first. he may have more than trump to worry about. joining me to talk about cruz's strategy, alice stewart, senior adviser for the cruz campaign. >> great to be here. >> i apologize for the lack of heat. >> this is iowa. i'm used to it. >> speaking of heat, how much time do you think will be devoted to going after trump and to the candidates on stage? >> i think the sheer standpoint of the elephant in the room, i think there will be questions directly from the moderators about donald trump and i think it's important. i don't think they can get away a free pass on this simply because for him to decide he wants to bypass the all-important final debate before the iowa caucus, it's an insult to the people of iowa. this is a time, as you know, a lot of the candidates haven't made -- the caucusgoers have not made up their minds yet. they have heard from all of the conditions. they have read the issues, they have seen them in previous debates. but this is a chance for them to
go head-to-head see them on stage. for him to take that opportunity away from them, it's a disservice. it's an insult to the process. >> as senator cruz thought about going to trump's rally? has he thought about going to the rally? >> ted cruz -- he's kind of busy during that time. he made a commitment to fox news that he'll participate in the debate because he knows it's important to get out there just a few days before the iowa caucus and get his message out. he, unlike donald trump, will honor his commitment to fox news to do this debate for the sheer point that the caucusgoers deserve those opportunity and it's a last chance for candidates to get the message out. >> not going after trump. going after rubio. every poll, not just ours, has shown ted cruz is sitting in a pretty solid second with a chance to get to first. why is he punching down? >> this is an important issue.
illegal immigration is important across the country. here in iowa it's an issue that resonates with voters. every stop, we went to 22 stops a few weeks ago, 33 this week, this comes up. it's important to show contrast. >> you worried about rubio? >> it's not a matter 0 of that. >> a whole ad devoted to him, a guy mired in third place. >> it's important to show contrast. ted cruz fighting against illegal imgratification. we have marco rubio, who promised people that he would fight amnesty and fight against illegal immigration and he's a sponsor and author of the gang of eight. working along with chuck schumer, barack obama, providing amnesty for illegals. has done nothing to stand up to barack obama in his executive action on amnesty. and ted cruz, on the other hand, fought vehemently against the gang of eight, vowed on day one, he will do away with the -- >> i'm sort of confused why you're going after rubio and not trump. >> it's important to show the contrast with the candidates.
we've on the debate stage had the opportunity to show the contrast of donald trump and we'll do that this evening. it's an important issue, importanter to voters to understand marco rubio's record on this. as you heard yourself, when he was on your show "meet the press," he vowed to continue to support amnesty for criminal illegal aliens. >> i know your campaign is -- the senator issued a debate challenge to donald trump, one-on-one. they have responded in saying they will do it as soon as you get approval from a court that you're eligible to run for president. do you consider that a real counteroffer. >> that issue has been put to bed. the voters out there understand completely that ted cruz is a natural born citizen, he is 100% eligible to run for president. >> call his bluff. get the judgment and say, let's go. >> it hasn't moved the numbers. the voters understand this is another tactic by donald trump to avoid talking about the
issues that they're concerned with. he doesn't want to talk about his records supporting democrats, he doesn't want to talk about the fact he's contributes tens of thousands to democrats and he is not a conservative when it comes to issues when hes and a democrat on gay marriage, on abortion. and supporting democratic candidates. he doesn't want to talk about that. he's bringing up this birther nonsense. >> i will leave it there. i imagine i'll be running into a lot over the next four days. >> i looked forward to it. >> i'll be sitting down with senator ted cruz sunday on "meet the press." he's our lead guest. check your local nbc station. now, take a look at how donald trump is spending his evening, if it's not on the debate stage. there are some folks at another network holding out hope he might show up. katy tur at drake university site of the donald trump event. i feel like the only people that think trump might show up are the people that are putting on the debate because they're hoping he might show up. >> reporter: i'm notten ti ete
sure that's true. it is possible he will be showing up at this debate later tonight. i know that he's got secret service, ben carson has secret service, the debate has been swept by secret service and donald trump in the bubble already will easily be able to get in and get quickly to the stage. they need a 20-minute window to reset lights and the podium. there has been chatter this would be good for donald trump because he likes an entrance. he like a show, attention, what better way to get the most attention you can get than by holding this event here and then showing up late and making a grand entrance into the debate tonight. of course, fox will have to let them in. we're not sure they'd want to do that. as of now, the counter programming fund-raising event stands. he will be here at 8:00 pacific, that's 9:00 eastern, that is when the debate starts. there will be a fund-raising event.
we're told by at least one group now, canines for warriors, that they have been contacted by the trump campaign for the money that will be fundraised tonight. they say that the campaign told them that they are one of 18 groups that is being considered right now. we've reached out to the campaign a number of times today, chuck to find out exactly who this money will be going to. so far we have gotten no response from them. >> well, i think is a sign of what happens when you slap an event together at the last minute. katy tur, from drake, what a split screen. coming up, the democrats, negative side of staying positive. bernie sanders seems to be weighing the merits of going on the attack. we'll hear from the man running the sanders campaign. but first, iowa caucus pop quiz. later this hour, i'll be joined by one of hillary clinton's most influential supporters. a hint, he's one of only two people to win in iowa over a clinton. stay tuned for the answer.
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today rhode island lost one of its most famous sons, former providence mayor, he died this morning, buddy cianci, one of the longest serving mayors in american history, beloved and disdained. forced from office twice on felony convicts for assault and corruption. he defied the odds, not only the first italian-american mayor but a republican who beat the democratic incumbent in a blue city. 2014, before a failed run to get back into office everybody this time as independent, i asked him about his blurred party lines. >> i never met a fence i couldn't straddle. no way democratic way to build a park or fix a zoo. it's the formula that's worked for me. i've -- i ran twice as republican and four times as
independent. >> in that interview he said that good mayors pay attention to five things, safety, schools, housing, jobs, recreation. in other words, simply making it a nice place to live. you can argue those five things are what any executive, governor, president, or mayor should worry about. much of his legacy lies in the redevelopment of providence's blighted downtown area. he delivered his commentary as talk radio show host. he had his likeness on line of pasta sauce, the mayor's own marinara. vincent "buddy" cianci jr., 74.
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philadelphia investment firm. frankly, i would rather be here with you. >> well, that was bernie sanders last night at a rally in mason city, iowa. that's two hours north of where we are here in des moines, by the way. music man reference there, as you know. with one of -- one of his most direct attacks at hillary clinton. sanders says he will not put out any negative ads against hillary clinton. but there is a new ad out by the campaign called "the problem." it doesn't mention clinton by name but it criticizes wall street firms like goldman sachs for pushing money into politics. so, is it a negative ad? here what happens bernie sanders had to say about it. >> does it mention hillary clinton? >> no. >> does it have any image of hillary clinton? >> no. >> is it true in american society wall street spends huge amounts of money on dozens and dozens of politicians? it is true. it's not so -- the point is,
this campaign is significantly about is taking on wall street and the power of wall street and the fact that wall street spends huge amounts of money on campaign contributions. >> aren't you suggesting she's bought by wall street? >> i'm not suggesting anything at all. >> it may be time to pull out all of the stops for iowa. our poll has clinton up inside the margin of error by three points. kasie hunt on the road with the sanders campaigns and joins me now. kasie, you know, it's funny to watch this, is this a negative ad, is this not? i played what a negative ad looks like with ted cruz going after marco rubio. the republican side has gone negative. we're still in a very soft stage here on the democratic side. >> we are, chuck. it's very early. bernie sanders has talked at some length over the course of today to reporters today at a breakfast, when i talked to him about the fact he will not go negative. he wants to remain the
politician who is never, as he says run a negative ad in his life. the something that he takes pride in. something that from a political perspective is important to him. it a selling point for him with people who are supportive of him. but as you point out, as this race tightens and as the hillary clinton campaign begins to feel more confident about where they stand they have russell with the question if they don't do anything along lines is going to result in his defeat. if he went there, could we have pulled it out? this is clearly a difficult personal decision for bernie sanders. it's something he wrestles with. he'll say this is a contrast. as you know, that's jargon typically for an attack ad. on the other hand this ad is somewhere in between. this is not the ad that donald trump is airing against ted cruz, for example. >> right. absolutely. kasie hunt, at the debate side. thanks very much.
joining me the sanders campaign manager, jeff weaver. welcome. >> glad to be here. >> shocked that i'm running into you iowa. let me pick up on kasie's point here, this idea if you come up three points short, say our poll is spot on accurate, do you feel like you've done everything possible to win iowa? >> yes, absolutely. pulling out all of the stops we've got bernie here last week, going around the state on a bus tour, small towns, big towns good ads up on the air, a great ground game. we're doing everything we can do win. the race is tight. it's essentially a tie. within at margin of error that means the race could be eight points apart. the closer the race, the harder to poll. >> the question of who will show up. >> exactly. >> we have not yet seen, you go to rallies, you see evidence. you go to trump rallies you see evidence there are more people engaging. >> right. >> but in the all-important looking at voter registration
rolls in iowa we have not seen an uptick in voter registration on the d or r side. why do you assume you'll get new caucus voters out. >> you can register when you get there. our campaign is not putting a great amount of effort registering people. getting in tome register and get people to go to the caucus. >> it's a double commitment. talk about number ones, talk about ones, twos, threes. you get somebody to pull the trigger on changing the registration, you know they're going, you don't get them to do it before -- >> i would rather spend that effort to get those people to come to a bernie rally where they can bernie in person or come into the office and call other iowans. we've had 15,000 people here in iowa do some volunteer activity. that's impressive. >> what do you make of the fact you're seeing people who have been allies of bernie sanders in the past at least rhetorically on policy, people like nancy pelosi talking about being
uncomfortable running on the bernie sanders yaend and this could -- you could see more democrats coming 0 uout nervous. what do you tell nancy pelosi, bernie sanders isn't going to cost house seats. >> bernie sanders is a nominee, we will gain seats in the house, gain seats in the senate. >> how do you know? that's a tough thing to say. a democrat promising to raise taxes and succeed in winning. >> if you look at issues that bernie sanders is talking about, widespread support among the american people. it's early but look at head-to-head matchups between bernie and republicans he does better than secretary clinton does, in most cases against every one of them. he's beating donald trump in new hampshire by 19 points. hillary clinton is beating donald trump in new hampshire by one point. if democrats are spending tons of money to defend new hampshire, november they're in trouble. there's this aspect, though, claire mcskcaskill said you haven't received anything from the incoming side. >> what do republicans tell
people in new hampshire thdon't know about bernie sanders? he's older than some other can't candidates. the places where bernie sanders is best known, he's doing the best. right? let be clear, you know, your e-mail box and media people e-mail boxes are full of attacks on bernie sanders by david brock and the clinton campaign day after day. they're not putting out any kind of junk that the republicans put out. we have received scrutiny in terms of policy and personal attacks on bernie sanders. hee he'll hold up fine. >> i understand you don't mention her name but the senator introduced goldman sachs speech issue at last debate. >> rate. >> this ad features goldman sachs, you know, he wants the dots connected. >> goldman sachs is the firm that has recently agreed to pay this $5 billion penalty to the federal government for bad behavior. if you look at people who have
received speaking fees from goldman sacksing jeb bush, mitt romney, bernanke, the list is long. >> ad's an attack on romney, jeb bush, bernanke and hillary? >> no. our ad is an attack on corrupt campaign finance system. goldman sachs engage in reckless and illegal behavior, agree to $5 billion in fines and continue to have great influence over people in washington, d.c. that's wrong. that's bad. >> one more thing on caucus strategy. >> sure. >> we've talked about this before, are you concerned you'll have more people show up but they won't be in the right place? >> we have been very aggressive in trying to reach out to people across the state. bernie's on a tour around eastern eye i'm he was in western iowa last week. we've had a very active campaign, reached out to high school students across the state, community college students across the states. there are more districts with students?
there are a lot of small colleges and towns in iowa, as you well know. >> jeff weaver, i'll leave it there. coming up, we'll talk to an iowa democratic power broker, clinton supporter, former eye caucus winner himself. you know you figured it out. it's talk harken. tom brokaw's with me after the break with an iowa preview only he can give you. "mtp daily" live from des moines.
"sir"? come on. you know who i am. progressive insurance? uh, i save people an average of over $500 when they switch? did you pack your own bags? oh! right -- the name your price tool. it shows people policy options to help fit their budget. [ scanner warbling ] crazy that a big shot like me would pack his own bags, right? [ chuckles ] so, do i have the right to remain handsome? [ chuckles ] wait. uh-oh. nbc news projected win or of the iowa democratic caucuses, former vice president waller fritz mondale. a launching platform on the republican side for senator bob dole who wins an impressive victory. iowa senator tom harkin won the democratic caucuses. senator bob dole the winner in the first key event of the 1996 presidential campaign. texas governor george w. bush is the winner in iowa. it has been a triumphant night
for massachusetts senator, john kerry, project the winner 0 of the iowa caucuses by a very impressive pla ivive margin. >> walk through recentee eye caucus history. nbc news special correspondent tom brokaw joins me in des moines, iowa. a second, third home for you? >> i've been here a lot, not just des moines, iowa. >> there's a bar stool or two in iowa city you're familiar with. >> the most popular pub in iowa city, permanently reserved for tom brokaw who spent so much of his freshman year here. >> this debate is coming. >> i have been talking to a lot of people, we'll do something on the "today" show monday morning. i've kind of come to the conclusion that iowa is not a bad place, because they take it seriously here. i wish voter turnout were
higher. i have been saying around town, you're probably right. i said why don't we have the first test, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina all on the same day? we've got the southeast, the northeast, we've got the midwest. and you'll have a more representative start. we're mostly responsible for what goes on. >> creating the pandemonium. >> we create pandemonium. they don't want to give it up with good reason, it's a good economic boost. we come in here, they show off the best offee eye. >> another tang hing we were tag about, two candidates making headway on frustration with the american economy and where it sits in the middle class economy, bernie sanders on the left, donald trump on the right. of all states, this would be the bottom of the list for it to resonate. iowa's economy is not just good on an unemployment scale, it is up and down. this is a good, solid economy. >> 4% unemployment. des moines is booming, one of the small cities in america that
everyone wants to live in now because it has all of the services. they've got two really major universities, iowa state university of iowa and very good schools. when donald trump says i want to make america great again, iowa is saying, we're doing okay. that's an interesting issue. but in the universe in which we now like, they don't just live in a neighborhood anymore. they live in a global environment. so that's a big difference. >> a cultural connection people are making in politics that have less to do. you get the sense, the least iowa campaign as far as issues, on the ethanol thing but it's not about iowa issues. >> it's bigger than that. because the fact is, in iowa especially, they do live in a global environment. all of these farmers who used to spend the winter repairing the machine, now at the computer seeing what china's going to need come fall, soybeans or sunflowers. it's not an automatic plant of
corn. it's a much more sophisticated place. >> it's booming. fun to be here. >> it's great. pork tender loin sandwiches alone. >> the real reason we're here. see you a lot this weekend, monday and tuesday. >> see you then. clinton support somewhere iowa democratic party legend, tom harkin joins me in three minutes. first, kate rogers has the cnbc market wrap. >> stocks gained ground, the dow gained 125. amazon out with earnings, fell short of tiestimates. a difference story for microsoft, revenue and profits better than expected sending the stock up in late trading. caterpillar a winner gaining 5% on stronger than expected earnings and guidance. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees.
bernie sanders and hillary clinton make their final pitches the clinton campaign come out in favor of more debates, trying to coax sanders to attend the new hampshire debate. we've been willing to add additional debates beyond the six scheduled and look forward to starting discussions and scheduling debates in april and may. in our latest polls, out of iowa and new hampshire showed why the clinton campaign may be eager to debate more. clinton leads sanders by three points in eiowa she trails by 1 in new hampshire. it's a large drop. here wooet me, one of two people to have won against a clinton in iowa caucuses, iowa former senator, now hillary clinton support, tom harkin. >> welcome back to iowa. >> talk about the issue of
bernie sanders and prairie populism. i think of tom harkin. i'm surprised that you went with clinton over sanders because of the issue sanders is pushing. was it a difficult decision? >> no. no, it wasn't. i talked to bernie beforehand, he's a great friend of mine, personally, both he and jane, and i still count him as a great personal friend. and a soul mate on a lot of things. but why i supported hillary, i've known her since 1991, i want to debunk something right now. i can tell you that she -- i think she is one of the most honest, trustworthy, competent individuals i've known in my political life. all of this stuff about kids asking, is she trustworthy or honest. if you had 15, 20 years of constant right wing barrage at you, indue endos, lies, fabrications, you'd wonder.
it's easier to get out negatives on social networking than positives. >> sure. >> but through that all, by gosh, he's stood up straight and tall and she is the best equipped person to be president of the united states in my lifeti lifetime. >> what have you seen different from her this time than eight years ago? i think part of the -- the reason this stuff gets reinforced is she's pretty guarded in public. she's been less guarded i think this cycle but she can come across pretty guarded and that makes people think she's hiding something. >> no, i think she's done everything exactly right in iowa compare to 2008. in 2008 the clinton company pain was like a 40,000 -- she has been all over this state. she's been in homes, all over iowa, all of the small towns. she has done a great job of establishing and building a statewide organization in this state. it's broadly based, it's deep, strong.
her campaign manager has done a great job of pulling this altogether. >> what -- why do you think sanders has resonated? why has he made this close? >> well, look, bernie has a strong persona, he speaks well. and he taps into that underlying, i think, i won't say angst but nervousness of the middle class things aren't going the way things should be going. he's very good at that. so i can -- it's not -- it's not a real shock to me that she's doing this well. i've watched bernie a long time, we served together in the senate on the same committee. but through it all, i think hillary has done a great job of getting her message out and establishing the kind of the underpinnings of a solid win next monday. >> if -- you say solid win, does is solid? >> she will win majority of the delegates next monday and that's what it's all about, winning delegates. >> pure and simple, and it isn't
a big margin? you think a bwin's a win? >> a win is a win. i don't know what the margin will be, but it will be a win. and how significant remains to be seen. >> anything you think she can be doing differently to combat this enthusiasm for sanders particularly among young voters. >> i think continue to be what she is. the best thing about hillary, when she's in small groups in individuals' homes and does the forum look we did monday night, she is great with people in small groups. she just -- that's where she shines. the more she can get out as she's been doing over a year -- i was here when she first came here a year ago in april, and she has done a great job of connecting with people in iowa. >> you say small groups. she going to get better at big rallies. >> don't worry about that. in iowa you need. one-on-ones in the homes, and i think she's done a much better
job than bernie sanders has. >> tom harkin, we shall see. much more ahead on "mtp daily." live from des moines, iowa. a little chilly but less snow on the ground than back home in washington.d fi nancial supersta pitch you investment opportunities. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors, there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. you're not even registered; i'm done with you! i can...i can... savvy investors check their financial pro's background by visiting smartcheck.gov the possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor.
she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. we will be here in iowa bringing you live reports from the ground throughout the weekend and all the way through monday. of course, i'll be here for "meet the press" on sunday on your legal nbc station.
senator ted cruz, marco rubio among lead guests. sunday a special show on the eve of the caucuses. "meet the press" special 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. live here from des moines, only on msnbc. the microsoft cloud allows us to access information from anywhere. the microsoft cloud allows us to scale up. microsoft cloud changes our world dramatically. it wasn't too long ago it would take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome. now, we can do a hundred per day. with the microsoft cloud we don't have to build server rooms. we have instant scale. the microsoft cloud is helping us to re-build and re-interpret our business. this cloud helps transform business. this is the microsoft cloud.
we are not going to win if the campaign becomes a sideshow. we've all watched some of the theatrics that's gone on, who's going to show up, who's not going to show up, who challenged who to what. make for good television. it doesn't solve our problems. >> well, there's a lot of the spotlight without donald trump there could be on marco rubio
tonight. and ted cruz clearly has marco rubio in his crosshairs with a new attack ad out now. let me bring if a surrogate for marco rubio, congressman jason shaf fits. he joins me now. nice to see you virtually via satellite. >> thanks, chuck. >> let me start with the state of the rubio campaign. we've had reporting, they've had to cut back on money issue, on the amount of advertising that they're putting on the air in iowa and new hampshire. yet at the same time something must be up because the cruz campaign is attacking them. does the rubio campaign have a money issue? >> no, look, i was in nevada, one of the efarly states coming up, they were far more organized than anybody else there. doing five events there in nevada, well-organized, no other group there. i went to south carolina with him. so, i think marco knows the a marathon, you've got to run a
national race and he's going to do exceptionally well. >> he seemed to decide to avoid the issue of trump not showing and focusing on cruz. does senator rubio feel as if ted cruz is his chief opponent. >> i think marco came to the resolution a while ago, if he puts his best foot forward, articulates his vision and conservative roots, talk about his beliefs, that that will win the day, that those theatrics will be put aside and ultimately people will vote for the one they feel most comfortable with, they like, believe and trust in. that's will the of 0 us who know candidates and endorsed marco. i think that his goal is to just put his best foot forward. there's a lot of barbs going back and forth but there's a lot on the line. >> the issue of immigration seems to be the chief decisive issue for some voters. and how uever you define amnest.
is marco rubio's position on immigration -- >> i think he learned a lot from that. i think he has rejected amnesty, if i believed that he was in favor of amnesty, i wouldn't be supporting him. i don't believe he is. i think he's going to, in a general election, make this a real strength and being able to take that argument to whoever the democratic nominee is and talk about those issues. and what he went through in his own personal experience. but, no, there are some issues, some voters obviously, single-issue candidates. but if we want to win in november, marco rubio is by far our best candidate. >> jason chaffetz, i will leave it there. appreciate the super human deals you had to make to make the live shot. >> thanks. warm up, chuck. >> you got it, buddy. all right. let me jump to the panel here. with me, smaller group, caroline
ryan and dan balls, chief correspondent for "the washington post." the debate, after five minutes of trump bashing, this debate becomes about cruz and rubio? >> cruz and rubio. that's where fox wants to focus it. we should say, for your viewers, there are rumors, unreliable rumors, that donald trump might do something dramatic and show up or try to disrupt the event afterward. so there's a possibility of some drama but thigh for fox, which is some ways relishing this moment asserting itself, they want to see rubio and cruz really go at it. >> dan, in the fight to define what conservative means in 2016, rubio and cruz do sort of represent the two movements, rubio much more of internationalist, much more pro-free trade, pro-immigration, pro-interventionist. cruz, a little more less
interventionist, more skeptical of trade, skeptical of immigration reform. you can make an argument that in an ideological way this is the battle inside the party? >> yes, . >> they represent the two competing theories of how republicans win a general election. >> right. >> marco rubio obviously saying we have to expand the party, we have to do better with latinos in particular. we have to do things we haven't been able to do, and cruz saying no, we have to be pure in our conservatism to bring out conservati conservative vetters. in a tactical sense, they are quite different, and are going at one another. >> help me with this. >> you also have to that point sort of this extraordinary traty gick difference. you have cruz essentially investing so deeply in iowa, needs to win it, and then you have this somewhat more vague wait and see marco rubio march
is coming, so i think donors want to see a win, and i think it is becoming that there is some inn patience surrounding him right now. >> there is these financial cuts and ad spending. the campaign is saying, no, it's not what you think. >> unsettling. >> the other thought about tonight's debate is that in an almost perfect way, it explains what this race has been about. you have donald trump in one place, and in this case, not on the debate stage, and everybody potentially over shadowed by whatever he does, but fighting among themselves to emerge. >> it is sort of the race in a nutshell tonight. we're going to take a pause. stick with us. i'm not freezing out here by myself. the lid is next. the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships,
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there is body language, dan. you're a fan of it as well. you see a poll number, but campaign body language means something. clinton campaign is acting like they're ahead now. the sanders is acting like it's behind now. >> i think both campaigns privately are saying that. i think that the sanders campaign is acknowledging they're behind, but you know, the trump card, no pun intended is the degree to what anybody can measure or actually has gathered in their work. so in the same way in 2008, both the obama and clinton campaigns underestimated what the turnouts would be. so we'll see what happens, whether sanders -- sanders does have some sense of momentum. >> yes. >> the clouds are still big. >> they're big. >> so irrelevant's the old mow versus o. >> i've never read a story in
the new york times about a campaign going negative with a reporter, sort of -- it's just, watching them debate themselves, and this was the sanders campaign, debating on this idea, are they going to go negative against clinton on the air or not. >> you always wonder in a campaign when you get more candid interviews, are consultants or advisors sending messages in a more powerful way. >> that's an interesting point. >> if you talk to sanders supporters, what they wonder in part, does he have it in him, does he have the stomach. >> do what it takes. >> or is this a more symbolic issue or campaign. in an interview with him, you could almost see him arguing both sides. so i felt like it was sort of an extraordinary story, because you got at the inner conflict of it. >> two months ago, i remember talking to somebody who knew senator sanders, and they said he already thinks he won. no matter what happens, he
become gs the leader of the progressive movement. >> yes, no doubt be more competition with elizabeth warr warren. >> no doubt. >> in doing what he has done and in galvanizing that support and pushing for the agenda that we know a lot of progressives have hungered for, that's not insignificant. >> no, you know, the most telling this inc. to me happened when tom stier, the billionaire who wants to be -- running for governor, refused to endorse clinton. wanting to, it's clear, he's thinking about what does it look like in a democratic race, primary some day in california, is it better to have been neutral or with sanders than with clinton? >> to me, that comes from, look at the factorability numbers among democrats. even the people voting for hillary, they're extraordinary. they're sky high. i think people, even people going for hillary for a whole
bunch of reasons, there is an admiration for the message and what he has done. >> let me quickly end on tonight's circus. because that's really what this split screen we're going to have of a debate and then across town, this trump thing. dan, we were talking off camera, probably the most -- the theory i've heard, you put out the best, donald trump showing up in the spin room post debate. that's the theory i'll hang my head on. >> that makes the most sense to me. he can't bust himself into the debate, particularly when he has novembe another event. he takes over the spin room any way, and that's all he needs to do, because he has book ended the whole event. the talk will be what is he saying after the debate as well as what he did before the debate. >> we'll be talking about that debate. >> i don't think so. this is a fast new cycle. >> especially with trump, he has an ability to steal the next cycle with such shwredness.
>> we'll be back tomorrow live from des moines, "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm john i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to rick n santorum, there a new sweater in town. >> held will he aga >> hello again, four days until the iowa caucus, and new merrist university polls out today, including one in iowa, where donald trump is leading with 32%, up 8 points from the same poll. senator cruz is up. 25%. marco rubio in third at 18%. he is up five. other