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tv   MSNBC Live With Kate Snow  MSNBC  January 29, 2016 12:00pm-2:01pm PST

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good afternoon, everybody, i'm kate snow, and we are three days away from the iowa caucuses, and nearly every candidate is on the ground in iowa today. bernie sanders, hillary clinton, martin o'malley all in the hawkeye state today, as are ted cruz, marco lub rubio, jesh bus chris christie, john kasich, carly fiorina and rand paul. there is one candidate not in iowa. that would be donald trump who wrapped up a rally in nashua, new hampshire just an hour ago where he discussed his absence from last night's republican debate and took some more jabs at ted cruz. >> i did something that was very risky, and i think it turned out great because the front page of every paper i'm getting more publicity than if i -- you know? cruz is in second place. he got really pum memelpummelle. i'm glad i wasn't there, he got really pummelled. and they didn't even mention that he was born in canada.
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when you're born in canada, you're not supposed to be running for president of the united states. >> at the debate last night, there weren't that many mentions of donald trump, but several candidates used his absence to make a joke. >> i'm a maniac, and everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly. and ben, you're a terrible surgeon. now that we've gotten the donald trump portion out of the way -- >> let's begin by being clear what this campaign is about. it's not about donald trump. he's an entertaining guy. he's the great e show on earth. >> i kind of miss donald trump. he was a little teddy bear to me. we always had a loving relationship in these debates and in between the tweets. i kind of miss him. i wish he was here. >> because msnbc is the place for politics, we have a team of supporters on the ground including nbc's chris jansing, katie terr.
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chris, i'm not sure who is more excited, us or the candidates? >> reporter: who wouldn't be excited? it's almost like my beloved cleveland browns are in the super bowl, that's how classic this has been. here's where the rubber meets the road. we know what has been unusual about this campaign season. what we don't know is, when it comes to voting, when it comes to the caucuses, will the old rules apply? what kind of rules are we talking about? number one, it's tough to get people out to caucuses. it's not just about going and casting a ballot in every case, in some cases it's about standing up in front of your neighbors and making a speech. we know that traditionally it's been about the conservatives on the republican side. about 56% of those who caucused in 2012 were self-described christian evangelicals. another big chunk of them, more than 45%, said they considered
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themselves to be very conservative. will there be a change? will donald trump bring new voters out? will he bring young voters out? will we see a surprise on the democratic side? i just talked to somber knee sa -- some bernie sanders supporters who have been going out on a bus. they feel some enthusiasm. but a couple things are true and i've covered a lot of campaigns. last night talking to people inside these campaigns, every one of them thought their candidate won the debate and every single one of them thought there would be a surprise. now, who might surprise? if you look at the traditional analysis, ted cruz, who has been on the move, certainly has taken hits recently. not sure he helped himself in the debate last night, so marco rub rubio's team is feeling like he has the potential to move up into second place here. that would be something huge. bernie sanders' people think he could pull off the upset. that would be amazing.
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for many of the candidates, it's really about defying expectations. ben carson, who not so long ago was leading here in the polls, could he possibly move up into third place? then the final piece of the puzzle that will tell us if this is a traditional election or not one is the ground game, kate. this really is about neighbors getting neighbors to come out, who has the strong ground game? hillary clinton learned the lessons of 2008. she has a strong ground game. ted cruz has certainly worked on his. jeb bush with the $100 million he had behind him has spent a lot of money on the ground. so will it be enthusiasm, will it be the long-time caucus goers who people like ted cruz have been focusing on who will eventually win the day? in terms of just the excitement of figuring out what could happen here and all the possibilities, it really is something to see, and i will tell you that of all the people i talked to last night, there wasn't a single one -- and these are all long-time political experts who have been playing the game a long time -- they all
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said look for some kind of surprise. they wouldn't necessarily say what it was going to be, but they said, in this kind of year, you got to know that something unexpected is going to happen, kate. >> well, i sure hope so, because that will make it even more exciting for us. chris, let me play a little bit of marco rubio sound from earlier today. he was joking a bit about last night. >> so, yeah, i had this thing going on last night, this debate. i don't know if you saw it. it was a lot of fun. i actually had a little more time than usual. i think there was someone missing or something, so they had more time. but it was great. we have enjoyed so much this process. but now it's deciding time. >> and chris, we played some of the jabs and some of the things they said about donald trump, but really, if you watched the debate last night, there was a lot of substance in there. there were a lot of issues covered from national security to immigration. what would you say were some of the highlights? >> reporter: well, i think that
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sort of big picture really was potentially a game changer in a lot of ways. we don't know how many iowans were watching that, but you certainly have to believe that the intensity was high. even the people who were in my hotel who were behind the front desk were saying, you know, they'll have it on in the bar, we're going to try to peek in and see what we can find out. and for the campaigns and for the candidates themselves, it really was an opportunity to have a whole different dynamic there, and that really was sort of, i think, the theme of that, that with donald trump frankly not sucking the oxygen out of the room, they really had a chance to focus on a lot of the issues after we got through letting them have their initial prepared lines about donald trump. and so they feel good about that. i think one of the keys, and you played marco rubio, a big question here has been about immigration for him, and the time when he believed that there should be a path to citizenship. you know, he got hammered a lot on that. he and ted cruz really went at it, and jeb bush got into it a little bit, so it really is
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decision time. but the campaigns like the fact that they were able to get those ideas out there, kate. >> all right, chris jansing, thanks so much, and let's pick it up with mark murray now and dig a little deeper on last night's debate. joining me, senior political editor mark murray. mark, when you look at the headlines, the takeaways for people who maybe didn't see it -- we don't have mark right now? we just lost mark's signal, so we'll go back to him in a minute. let's hop over, though, to donald trump, then. he is, no surprise, claiming victory today. he believes his master plan to skip the debate last night in favor of a fundraiser for veterans is paying off. and trump is so confident that he's going to win iowa that he's not even in iowa anymore. he's moved on to new hampshire with more colorful language about second place ted cruz. >> ted cruz may not be a u.s. citizen, right? but he's an anchor baby. he's an anchor baby -- ted cruz is an anchor baby in canada.
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but canada doesn't accept anchor babies, they just waited a long time. >> nbc's katie terr joins me now from des moines, iowa. he's already in new hampshire which has to tell us something. >> yeah, and he did this the other day. he was in south carolina instead of being in iowa. one of the things donald trump has to his advantage is, of course, his own private jet, so he's able to get other places and get back quickly to iowa or wherever he needs to be quickly as well. he's using that to his advantage, being able to be in more places than any of the candidates. as you said, though, it does amount to a certain amount of confidence in the campaign, confidence of where his standing is that he's not in iowa right now. i think he sees himself as dominating the headlines, dominating the news cycle. everyone is talking about this fundraiser he had last night, not appearing at the debate and some saying he won the debate without being at the debate. some people are saying that, and donald trump's campaign feels confident they don't need to be
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here, because they're already here in all the news programs and all the newspapers and in all the consciousness, they hope, of the voters. >> and katie, last night there was this interesting kind of will he, won't he, he said he wasn't going to show up at the debate, and he had interesting conversations with fox news. what can you tell us? >> reporter: there is a lot of drama. the campaign says, and he said, they had a number of conversations. my sources say there were moments were the fox news people were calling donald trump every few minutes. fox has disputed that. they said they only had three conversations with donald trump, between donald trump and roger ails, and they basically talked to him about his concerns about that press release, and trump demanded $5 million to go to charity for him to appear, and they said they can't do a quid pro quo. so i imagine the truth, as it is, lies somewhere in the middle of that. of course, it's to donald
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trump's advantage to paint fox news as if they were begging him to come on. it makes him look like the strong man in this scenario, standing up to the establishment, standing up to fox news and winning because he's being firm on his principles. in reality, though, he's had a hard time with tough questioning lately, especially on the campaign trail. we saw his exchange with peter alexander, i've experienced it, other reporters have experienced it. as the campaign draws nearer to the vote, as they've grown more confident, they felt like they don't need to face the sort of tough questions that other candidates would face and then try to spin in whatever way they would spin it. so the politician in donald trump has come a long way, but he's still not quite at the point where he's able to face any question and find a way to spin it to his advantage. >> katie tur continuing to follow the trump campaign. katie, maybe you'll get some sleep in, like, three days. >> reporter: i don't think so. i don't think so. >> well, we appreciate all your efforts. thank you so much for being with us. we do actually have mark murray
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with us again now. mark, our senior political editor, who is also out in iowa. mark, i was starting to ask before, if you look at last night, give us the top three kind of headlines or takeaways, especially for people who might not have seen it. >> reporter: i think there were three fascinating story lines last night. one, you get a glimpse of what the field would have looked like without donald trump had he not decided to run in june. you have two stand-out performers, people who really didn't stand out in past republican debates. jeb bush and rand paul, both of them kind of free from the donald trump who has been really kind of taking away a lot of their energy and really making the campaign almost antithetical for what they wanted to bring for jeb bush who was always about bringing a reasonablist kind of moderation, experience and establishment qualities, and donald trump threw those out the
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window. >> number two, you talked about the videos they played at the debate last night. >> that was something we hadn't seen at all so far this debate season on the democratic and republican side. both ted cruz and marco rubio ended up getting some op-ed video montages that they talked about in the face of moderation. jeb bush said he was against amnesty, against the pathway to legal immigration. that was before he sponsored illegal immigration. i think you have a clip from one of those montages, kate. >> never had any support to grant blanket illegal amnesty to folks who have stayed in this country illegally. >> first of all, earn a path to leadership is basically the code for amnesty. the reality is this. it's unfair for the people who illegally entered this country to create a pathway for those who entered illegally and knowingly did so.
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>> we can't amnesty. if the american people grant amnesty, they will never again support it, and that's wrong for our country, bad for our future. >> reporter: again, why that's probably so damaging is that marco rubio was one of the co-authors of gang of eight legislation that granted a path way to citizenship, something marco rubio is now against, saying the border needs to be enforced first. >> and then thirdly, or i don't know if we're counting backwards or forward here. number one thing you recognized last night. donald trump not being there, you say that turns out to be a win for him. >> reporter: yeah, there was a bit of a sense whether donald trump participating or not was going to be a big gamble for him, saying that, you know, he was going to take himself off the stage. as you and katie were just talking about, this turned out to be a win for donald trump, and perhaps the biggest reason why that ted cruz ended up getting such blowback, that it was such a rough moment for him given that ted cruz is the
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person closest to donald trump in iowa, running seven points behind our msnbc poll, that ted cruz had a really rough night made donald trump's decision and gamble to skip last night's debate pay off. >> thank you for breaking it down for us. donald trump's absence last night turning into an opportunity for his closest competition. so how did the candidate running second in the iowa polls shake out? if you ask iowa's biggest newspaper, ted cruz did not have a good night. "rough night for cruz" is one headline in the des moines register. >> chris, i would note that the last four questions have been, rand, please attack ted, marco, please attack ted, chris, please attack ted, jeb, please attack ted. let me just say this. >> this it is a debate, sir. >> a debate is actually a policy issue, but i would say this. gosh, if you guys ask one more mean question, i may have to leave the stage.
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>> don't worry, i'm not leaving the stage no matter what you ask me. >> nbc's benji sarlin has been covering the debate for us. n i'm sure he would say, no, no, it wasn't a rough night, he got to say his issues. but do you get the sense the cruz campaign is fighting to keep up with trump at this point? >> reporter: the cruz campaign is facing a tough final stretch in iowa, and this is for two reasons. one is the trump campaign that polls show more and more leading into a lead in iowa. but second is marco rubio, who seemed to have a strong night in that debate, also seems to be inching up in third position. why does this matter? this is because marco rubio is, in many ways, staking iowa with gaining momentum in a strong third showing and then new
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hampshire at a strong showing in second place, and making him a strong contender who makes that vote solid. up to now, that establishment vote has been seriously divided between chris, between kasich, between christie. you've seen the cruz campaign adjusting. there is a report in the times today that the cruz campaign will focus all its ads in the final days in iowa against rubio. rubio fought very aggressively in that debate. it's definitely a pinch from both sides right now in the cruz campaign. for more on the impact of last night's debate and what the 80 or so next hours might bring, i want to bring in chairman michael steele. nice to see you. >> good to see you. >> let me ask you the big question everybody wants to ask. who won last night? >> there were two winners in my book last night. one was there and the other was not. i think as you already pointed
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out, donald trump walked away with a victory by not showing up. there was a very interesting moment for him that he escaped, and that was the video question. can you imagine him on that stage and fox playing back some of that video on comments and what that moment would have been like. all of that was avoided. none of that chinked the armor. so he survived the night and actually got down in front towards winning iowa. the other big winner, i think, was jeb bush. i think he really got to see, as mark pointed out, what the campaign would have been like, the other campaign for jeb bush if trump had not been in the room. he showed himself strong, the mentor taking on his mentee asa skewerring him rather successfully on immigration. jeb came off better than he has in other debates. i think this was perhaps his best debate. i think with jeb playing the long game the way he is, this
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sets him up nicely to do what he wants to do on the ground in iowa for sure, but then getting into new hampshire and certainly south carolina. i think this performance helps him tremendously. >> you said after the south carolina gop debate, you said that donald trump will be the republican nominee. do you still feel that way? >> yeah. i just -- despite all the wonderful things that happened last night for jeb and rand paul and others, i still ask the question, who takes donald trump out and the when do they do it? the voting starts in three days and it's been 7.5, 8 months for opportunity lost to really claim a share of that frontrunner status. when you are double digits behind the leader, it's hard to project that somehow you're going to eclipse him, particularly when he rattles out one or two wins behind the box. >> let me ask you about immigration. probably of all the issues it took up the most amount of time.
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we have a clip that centered on marco rubio in immigration. >> we are not going to round up 12 million people, but we're not going to hand out citizen cards,er. >> he led the charge to finally fix the immigration problem that has existed now, as marco says, for 30 years. then he cut and run because it wasn't popular amongst conservatives, i guess. when you didn't do that and you asked people to support, you shouldn't cut and run. you should stick with it. that's exactly what happened, he cut and run and that's a tragedy. >> you know, i like marco, he's very charming, he's very smooth. but the facts are simple. when he ran for election in the state of florida, he told the people of florida, if you elect me, i will lead the fight against amnesty. but when we came to washington, we made a different choice. marco made the choice to go the direction of the major donors to support amnesty because he thought it was particularly advantageous. >> michael, all that noise, is that all about all of them trying to outflank donald trump on immigration?
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>> that's all of them trying to make sure marco doesn't get that sweet spot they all want so that the coalescence, he wants to be the one the establishment parties come to. right now rubio has, of all of them, best positioned himself for that, particularly with his move up in iowa in the polling there. a lot of folks around town are sort of looking a second glance at him and saying, well, just maybe. what you're going to see in the next three days is more incoming, that is, to take him down a peg. they need marco in fourth, possibly fifth. a lot of people are seeing that lane to donald trump. that second positional lo allow
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to run out to new hampshire, part of the bush strategy looking at south carolina down stream. >> did you see any breakthrough moments for any of those contenders for second? >> unfortunately, no. i think it was a wash, and not a very good wash for a lot of those folks for second. again, going back to my first point, i think the one most helped last night was jeb the fact that last night helped that, but for others vying for that second position, so that makes this sbebs battle for us going into monday. >> michael steele, always good to have you. >> good to be with you. >> the rals. just hours left until iowa's caucus. we'll check in with both those campaigns, coming up next.
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three days out from the iowa caucuses and the race is closer than ever for democrats. at this hour both hillary clinton and bernie sanders are making their final push in iowa. hillary clinton has three get out the caucus events in the hawkeye state today. senator sanders has five events in iowa today, including two rallies tonight in davenport and did y dubuque. the latest nbc and wall street journal polls have clinton ahead in iowa. we're going to nbc's kristen welker. she's with the clinton campaign and in a moment we'll check with the sanders campaign. we're just getting new information. i know you're just getting this
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as well but this is breaking now. the state department saying that they are not going to release certain e-mails that were on hillary clinton's server, private server. they're censoring 22 e-mails, saying those e-mails had material on them that were at one of the highest levels of classification. so top secret e-mails on her home server. >> reporter: that's right, kate, the state department saying they're not going to release those 22 documents because they contain classified information. this has been an ongoing issue as the state department has been releasing her e-mails over time. they have upgraded some of the classifications of these e-mails to classified. in this case they're saying they meet the highest classification, top secret. well, the clinton campaign already firing back at this decision, kate. let me tell you what brian fallon is saying. he's one of the clinton campaign
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spokespersons. he tweeted out, this is overclassification run amok. we adamantly oppose the blocking of these e-mails. they said they were classified after the fact, they didn't have this top secret classification when they were sent or received. they are saying they want these e-mails out there and on the table. but the state department obviously taking a very different view of this. this from a political standpoint is not something that helps the clinton campaign when they are locked in this tight race with bernie sanders, and i anticipate that they will continue to get questions about this throughout the weekend. but again, from the clinton campaign standpoint, these documents were classified after the fact. they maintain that secretary clint ont won was not engaged i wrongdoing. in the meantime, as you point out, kate, she has a number of events throughout the day, and tonight she'll be wrapping up with her husband, former president bill clinton, as they
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make these visits in iowa. it all comes down to monday, that crucial voting block. so many of them say they'll turn out for bernie sanders, but will they actually turn out in caucus? that will be the key question? >> i know earlier she was taking on wall street in one of her last events. that's a message we sort of associate more with bernie sanders. >> reporter: it is, and it comes on the heels of this tough ad bernie sanders released, slamming hillary clinton for her close ties to wall street. she came out today and said, look, i've been fighting wall street as well, i have a plan to get tough with wall street. this is a plan we've heard from her but she's certainly been stronger on this point in recent days. listen to what she had to say earlier today. >> there are a lot of bad players contributing to what happened in our economy in '07 and '08. i'm the only one that has a plan to go after all the risk. it's been called by people who are independent and know about these things the toughest, most
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effective, comprehensive plan to make sure wall street never wrecks main street again. >> reporter: so what you're hearing there, kate, is not only a defense of criticism she's been getting from bernie sanders, but also really this broader part of her closing argument, that she has the most practical plans when it comes to not only wall street, but she names a whole host of other issues, the economy. and she thinks she's the best person to take on republicans. again, it all comes down to turnout in this final weekend in iowa. >> by the way, check out hillary clinton's exclusive interview with my league lester holt from nightly news. it airs tonight on "nbc nightly news." you can check your listings for that. let's go over to nbc's casey hunt. she's on the sanders campaign. five events in iowa. i know you're busy. any reaction to this report we just mentioned about the state
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department not releasing a certain number of e-mails. >> reporter: kate, so far no reaction to the sanders campaign on this, and of course, there was that debate where he said the american people have heard enough about your damn e-mails, chs the quote from bernie sanders. he was asked again in a press camp, and he said no. so it's explained a little bit more. this is the press bus for the campaign. in these final weeks, we are following him from stop to stop. as you said, he has five stops. he's keeping a very aggressive schedule. i want to play for you his closing argument, and some of his comments that frankly are a little tougher against hillary clinton than they have been. >> i listened very closely to what bush and cheney and others had to say, studied the issue.
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i voted against the war in iraq. [ cheers and applause ] >> i should tell you that not every candidate running on the democratic side voted against that wall. >> so that was bernie sanders from mt. pleasant, iowa building on a trade, like gay smarj. many. he has held the same positions consistently throughout. we've talked a lot about whether sanders is going to go negative. they still have that one ad on. bernie sanders making that second argument against hillary clinton's honesty, that trustworthiness taking a dip
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which is, in part, ultimately driving his success here in iowa. the question whether he's going to be able to keep that up in a way that will allow him to pull out a win when both sides at this point are saying they see a slight advantage for hillary clinton. >> and let me just ask you about one other thing today. the daughter of eric garner endorsed bernie sanders. the daughter of garner who died by nypd officers while he was being arrested. his daughter wrote, black lives like my marry's should matter. who will address the criminalization of our people? who understands that we're experiencing an economic crisis made worse by structural barriers to jobs and education? who will bring us closer to real safety, freedom and power?
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>> he has struggled, and that's partly because hillary clinton has such strong and deep ties to the african-american community. she and her husband, of course, have prioritized that community for many, many years. bernie sanders has come under some criticism from african-american journalists, columnists, for ways he's discussed issues of race and justice in this campaign. but erica garner writing that bernie sanders took into account -- you'll remember, he was confronted by black lives matter. he writes in that endorsement that he seems to have heard what he had to say and adjusted his messaging. i actually talked to bernie sanders in an interview with him yesterday, and i asked him, is there a fundamental difference growing up as a black man in nerk versus a white man. that's been some lines of criticism from african-americans. he said there absolutely is, and he talked at some length about what he would do as president to try and deal with racial disparity in the criminal
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justice system. whether he's going to be able to convince, ultimately, african-american voters that they should have, but going against these other candidates has yet to be seen, but it's certainly something hillary clinton was hoping for. we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll be speaking with a representative of the hillary clinton campaign. spokesman brian fallon joins me and i'll be asking about the news developing now, the state department saying they found 22 documents on hillary clinton's e-mail server that contained top secret information. we'll be right back. 80% of women say a healthy lifestyle is a priority.
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caucuses. the state department said they would deny seven e-mail chains from hil's tenure at the state department from being released because they contain what they consider now to be top secret information. here's spokesman john kirby just moments ago. >> i can confirm that as part of this monthly production of hillary clinton's e-mails, the state department will be denying in full seven e-mail chains found in 22 documents representing 37 pages. the documents are being upgraded at the request of the intelligence community because they contain a category of top secret information. these documents were not marked classified at the time that they were sent. we have worked closely with our interagency partners on this matter, and this dialogue with the interagency is exactly how the process is supposed to work. >> let's get right to clinton's press secretary, brian fallon. he tweeted, this is overclassification run amok. brian fallon is actually here
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with us in the studio, so let's get it straight from here. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> you reacted right away. you're essentially saying the state department is, in hindsight, classifying all these e-mails, which is what they're saying, these e-mails were not marked classified at the time they were sent, but yet i can hear the american public saying, hold on, if they are that sensitive that they're now considered top secret, they should not have been sent from her private e-mail server. >> let's take a step back and discuss what's happening in context here. first of all, it's important to know that the state department is in the position of making this announcement today only because they are in receipt of the foyer request that was made for hillary clinton's e-mails. we believe this judgment to withhold 22 e-mails from public release despite hillary clinton's call for all males to be released are happening at the behest of other government as the various players of this interagency review have
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scrutinized her e-mails for public release. >> who other parts of the government? >> you have the inspector general, as well as the inspector general at the state department that have been insisting on certain ways of deciding what is classified and what's not. we know that there has been disagreement on these points and it has spilled out into public view at various points over the last several months. it now appears that some of the loudest voices in this interagency review that had some of the strongest straitjacket type of opinions has prevailed. that's unfortunate. we strongly disagree with the finding that was reached today, and we'll be contesting it and seeking to have these e-mails released. >> so you're saying you don't believe the content should be classified at all. >> here's what we know. because they are withholding the e-mails in full, by the way, the public is not able to independently judge the validity of the conclusion -- >> and you have not seen these e-mails. >> here's what we know about them. this has been litigated in the press. unfortunately because of the fact this process went off the
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rails a long time ago, but all the details about these e-mails have been leaked out in past months. here's some of the things we know. number one, these e-mails were not marked classified at the time they were sent or received, which is very sail yent to deciding whether the content counts as classified. number two, most likely these e-mails were originated on the unclassified state department system by career civil servants and other foreign civil service officers well before they were shown to hillary clinton. number three, they remained on the state department's unclassified system for a period of years in some instances. number four. at least in one instance it's been reported the thread consists of an e-mail chain when a public announcement was shared, so we believe these countered as classified is a very strict example of overclassification by these agencies among many in this agency process that have been duking it out for the last several months.
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>> but these agencies have staffed by people who are presumably non-partisan, life long members of these agencies, or i should say career people. or they were appointed by president obama, who is a democrat. so it sort of goes against reason to say that they would be fighting you on this. >> well, a couple points. because this has been playing out for several months, there's been a large body of reporting on this. it is quite possible for there to be a good faith disagreement between different agencies in the government. an agency like cia may conclude that whenever they are treating certain material, they always consider it classified. the state department may have a routine of treating the exact same information completely differently. and your own network, nbc, last week reported that the inspector general from the intelligence community has been unfairly targeting hillary clinton in what should be a bureaucratic routine matter of overclassification, trying to turn it into a scandal in the heat of election season. >> we're three days away from the iowa caucuses.
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bernie sanders so far hasn't responded, and in the past he has said, i don't care about your damn e-mails. he said that in a debate. so maybe he doesn't bring this up on the campaign trail. but it has the appearance of impropriety. do you worry about that? >> there is an independent justice department of review going on that started last august, and it's been taking place quietly and professionally ever since. it's unfortunate that some of the findings of the other agencies that have been feeding conclusions into that justice department review have been publicizing their own opinions on this matter, and that's why we see details leaking out over the course of the last several months. we know, we're clear-eyed about the fact that republicans will try to latch onto this, make this an issue to try to derail hillary clinton's campaign. they've been doing it for the last few months. they have not been successful. >> i'm sure it will be landing in our in boxes soon. let me ask about the caucuses three days away. clearly it's a lot tighter than
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many people expected. i know the campaign has been saying, we expected a tight race, hillary clinton always expected this to be a rough slog. but really, it's got to be -- three-point margin in iowa is tighter than you thought. >> no, it's not tighter than we thought, we always thought it would be close. and it's very exciting. this will be a test to the ground test for both organizations. we were on the ground very early last spring ahead of any other campaign, and we're very proud of the organization we've built. in the last couple weekends we've had volunteer activities where despite blistering cold in iowa, many are showing up for their volunteer assignments. we sense a lot of enthusiasm on the ground and we're confident we'll have a good showing on monday night. >> bernie sanders is not attacking on the e-mail issue, but he is attacking, if you will, on other issues. especially wall street has this new ad out that everyone is talking about. he doesn't name hillary clinton by name, and he told our andrea
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mitchell that he doesn't consider this an attack ad. do you? >> this is a significant departure that we heard from senator sanders earlier in this campaign. he said he would not evolve this into a race of personal attacks, and we likened him to dick cheney, which is as low a ball as you can lodge in a democratic primary. we've seen integrity in her campaign unfairly. compromise on issues is one thing, and we've had a fair back and forth on guns, and he's had to repair votes he's taken in 2005. but reporting to personal attacks is something senator sanders said he wouldn't do. i think it's a sign that the pressure on him has increased. >> does secretary clinton agree with the substance of the ad, that wall street has too much power in washington? >> she's got the toughest wall street plan than any democrat in the race. bernie sanders likes to talk
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about his plan a lot, but her plan is more comprehensive and tougher. and we have hedge. >> she's also the one that accepted $365,000 for giving three speeches to goldman sachs. she and her husband, i think, earned about $125 million from those three companies. >> the list of elected officials who, upon departing government service giving speeches is a very long and bipartisan list. but there is no indication whatsoever. look at her record. look at the plans she's put forward in that. anyone who thinks they won't take on this issue are dead wrong. >> the "washington post" writes, democrats badly underestimated bernie sanders. the sanders phenomenon races possible warning signs for clinton's chances in a general election. his ability to engage, excite and involve younger voters, his
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ability to make them feel invested in politics for clinton's failure, at least for now, to do the same. are you worried about your failure to attract younger voters. >> we sense a lot of enthusiasm from young voters in terms of what we're seeing on the trail. even supporters of the one, of strong favorable views of the other. so i suspect at the end of this nominating contest, however long it goes, we're going to see, because the stakes are quite leer who wants to repeelt, wants to review the president's ax on immigration. i think once people understand the stakes of the election, all the democrats will come together
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and strongly support our nominee, who we think will be hillary clinton. >> she's in between events, right. she's on her way to dubuque at 4:45 eastern time. we'll take it live here. will she address the e-mail story we've been talking about? >> she's not going to let this issue distract from the fights she is waging this campaign for. >> democrats are going to try to jump on this. they're is there anyone in iowa right now making, and how they try to capitalize on these leaks. >> brian fallon with the hillary clinton campaign. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to check in with steve kornacki on this. steve? >> the timing is strange so
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close to the caucus. this would seem to be the time to push the problem for bernie sanders. as you guys talked about, he pretty much took this issue off the table in that first debate with hillary clinton back in december, when he said he's sick and tired of hearing about her damn e-mails. not only does that put sanders in a tough position if he wanted to go back and talk about this, it sent a signal to democratic voters to treat this as a non-issue. when you look at the polling data on this, a clear majority of democrats, 80% said they agree with the sentiment that they're sick of hearing about hillary clinton's e-mails -- this is democrats, i should be clear -- saying she used her e-mail as the secretary of state, her personal e-mail, only as a matter of convenience. so within the democratic party, it is tough now for bernie sanders to suddenly make this an issue in the last couple days.
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he's probably going to have to hope that the media coverage on this somehow changes democrats' minds if he's hoping to get political advantage on it. but longer term, the polling that's been done on this does show, when they asked the question about hillary clinton' recently, that hillary clinton is not telling the full truth when it comes to her use of e-mails. i imagine these sorts of revelations would only feed that perception. that's a general election problem for her right now. that is, when you get out of the democratic primary and you're facing a wider electorate, where half of the voters are basically saying right now on this issue, they don't think she's been entirely straightforward, this could be damaging on that front. >> and let me go to ari melber, who's sitting next to you with the legal perspective here, ari. you've been covering this for months. we've all been watching this sort of drip, drip, drip of the e-mails. take a step back for us, ari, and explain, try to put some context into what brian was just saying from the campaign. he's saying, this is all about inter-agency bureaucrats, trying to protect what they now see as classified information.
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but how did we get there? >> well, look, i think, kate, for those who have been following this, you just broke some news with brian fallon, the clinton communications spokesman, who might rather be talking about something else, because he basically said, this is over-classification, that other agencies, including the intelligence agencies, are basically being too much of a stickler about what should be classified or later becomes classified. and you pressed him on that and said, who are we talking about here? these are either obama appointees or career civil servants. and charles mccullough is the inspector general for the intelligence community there that has been battling this, and there were some recent letters to the same effect. the issue is that people do go to jail for mishandling classified information. they have been prosecuted in the obama administration for that. now, no one here has come up with evidence that hillary clinton was the originator, was the creator of any of this material that gets that legal level. so, legally, what brian fallon
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and the clinton campaign are telling you, kate, and everyone who will listen is, look, these are things that later were classified, so it's not her fault, or were sent by other people, so she's the recipient. you know, if you want to use a broad analogy, legally, kate, that's like, if you're on the other end of a phishing scam and you're like, i got the e-mail, i didn't send it, so maybe there was a problem, but i'm the passive receiver. the problem with that defense is it may catch you on the law, but consult catch you on policy, kate. at the end of the day, what the inspector general of the intelligence community is concerned about here in this breaking news is that these materials were on her private server and they were later rendered to be classified and in some cases, allegedly, top-secret. the a.p. has a story out with more detail on that. and that's a problem for policy, even if it doesn't in any way suggest that hillary clinton broke criminal law. >> and ari, about five minutes ago, we got our first comment in from a republican candidate, which we expected. this is senator marco rubio.
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he's at a rally in riverview center, muscatine, iowa. this was his response to this breaking news. >> i haven't seen that report yet, so i wouldn't want to comment on it, but what we know already is that there was highly classified information on her server. what i know for a fact is if a member of my staff on an intelligence committee had done that, they would have been fired and probably would have been prosecuted. so we'll wait and see before i comment on this new report. >> let me go back to steve, first, because this is politics now, and not unexpected that the republicans would jump all over this. this could become a real general election issue if does, indeed, win the nomination. >> and nothing new on the republican side. this has been a seem in all these republican debates, just last night, before these revelations, you heard references that at both debates, you had kmcarly fiorina say, hillary clinton is destined for the big house, not the white house.
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but where you're seeing traction on this story has been on that issue of trust. is hillary clinton being entirely forthcoming here? is she being entirely truthful? you have a poll that shows, before any of the developments happening right now, half of all americans do not believe she's been truthful and entirely forthcoming when it comes to this e-mail issue. and every time you get a revelation like this. and remember, these new e-mails are being released in batches periodically throughout this campaign. so this is the sort of story that emerges now with regularity, every time there's a new release of e-mails. and if it drives up that number any further, that does become a potential problem for her when you talk about independent voters and swing voters in the general election. >> steve, stand by one second. i want to go to our justice correspondent, pete williams, standing by in washington. pete, what can you tell us about why these particular 22 e-mails are not being released? >> nothing, that's the problem. they won't say what's in them. but a couple of things to keep in mind.
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first of all, why today? that's because of this long-standing calendar that's been set by a federal judge here and this freedom of information lawsuit. this is the same lawsuit that has produced the other end of the month e-mail releases here. so this was supposed to be the last one, but the state department has said for a lot of reasons, it can't get them all out by today. it's getting most of them out. and the rest will come at the end of next month, at the end of february. that's why today. secondly, another thing to keep in mind is this is not the first time in the release of these e-mails that the intelligence community has said that some of these e-mails contain classified information. so, in past releases of e-mails, we've seen things blacked out or redacted. this is the first time that e-mails in their entirety have been withheld. apparently, because there's just no way they could figure out how to un-redact certain parts of them without spilling the beans on what the rest of it is about.
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so, that's why this has happened here. and of course, as you've discussed, they say that they were not marked classified when they were sent to -- or when they were put into the e-mail system. one other thing to keep in mind here, and i know your folks there and you know this, but it's perhaps worthwhile to remind all of us is that from a legal perspective, the fact that this was on her personal e-mail server is not really that important. the issue here is that they were in a non-classified system. so if they had been sent, for example, on the government's state.gov system, the same question would arise, because it's not a classified system. so, it's no more, no less secure from the government's perspective, than a personal e-mail server. now, you could argue a personal e-mail server could be more susceptible to hacking, but that's a whole separate question. >> so, pete, you're saying that even if she had been using a state.gov address, the fact that you've got things that are now considered top-secret, could be
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problematic, just because you're trafficking that on an e-mail system? >> right. now, you know, the fact that it's a personal e-mail server is what introduced the whole freedom of information thing and required her to provide the government with these e-mails, that then had to be reviewed. so that's how this particular process got started. if they were within the state.gov system, the foia process would have been much different. but the problem, and the reason things are being redacted would be the same if they were in a state.gov or her personal system. neither is secure. >> pete williams in washington, ari melber and steve kornacki here. we'll take a quick break and be back with more on our breaking news. believe tomorrow starts t. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, and the lowest taxes in decades, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in the hudson valley, with world class biotech.
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so if i wanna go to jersey and check out shotsy tuccerelli's portfolio, what's it to you? or i'm a scottish mason whose assets are made of stone like me heart. papa! you're no son of mine! or perhaps it's time to seize the day. don't just see opportunity, seize it! (applause) whose long dayis sheldon setting up the news seize it! starts with minor arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news. hi, everyone. i'm kate snow. we begin just three days away from the iowa caucuses at this hour. nearly every candidate is on the ground in iowa. as we speak, bernie sanders, about to start speaking in
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muscatine, iowa. we'll bring that to you shortly. it comes amid breaking news about hillary clinton's e-mail controversy. the state department just now today saying that they will withhold 22 entire e-mails on clinton's server that are considered now classified as top-secret. it's the first time that they have classified entire e-mails and chains of e-mails and withheld them from the public. we begin with the republican side of the race all in the hawkeye state today. donald trump, though, is miles away in nashua, new hampshire, where he wrapped up an event earlier today. the leading gop candidate touched on his absence from last night's republican debate and took some jabs at his rivals. >> i did something that was very risky and i think it turned out great, because on the front page of every paper, i'm getting more publicity than if i -- you know?
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cruz is in second place. he got really pummeled last night. actually, i'm glad i wasn't there, because i guess all of that -- he got pummeled, wow. and you know, they didn't even mentioned that he was born in canada, you know? it's -- when you're born in canada, you're not supposed to be running for president of the united states. >> since we are msnbc, we have reporters covering all of the action ahead of the caucuses in iowa. we have nbc's chris jansing, katy tur, mark murray, kelly o'donnell is only national mall in washington and here in new york, katy tur. chris, what's the reaction like to last night? >> reporter: i have to tell you, their expectations game is at a fever pitch. look, when you buy real estate, it's location, location, location. when you do political campaigns, it's turnout, turnout, turnout. the clock is ticking. after all these months of work, after all of these visits to
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iowa, finally people are going to go to the caucuses on monday and everybody feels like they have a chance to beat expectations. this is an expectations game. can you get beyond what people thought you were capable of doing? two fascinating things have emerged today. number one, ted cruz as a target. we saw that last night. that was one of the big developments of the debate. it's continuing today. all the candidates, as you said, kate, out doing their town halls, who are talking to voters, and they are really going after ted cruz. that tells you, they see him as the person who's being considered a serious alternative to donald trump. the second thing is, watch where they're going. ted cruz is trying to essentially shore up his base. he has been traveling to conservative areas. one of the big questions last night that was against him, one of the big hits he was taking is, is he a true conservative? he's trying to shore up his conservative credentials by going to those areas. remember, this is a state that
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traditionally has voted, conservatively, 56% of the iowa caucusgoers on the republican side four years ago were conservatives. self-identified evangelical christians, many of them consider themselves very conservative. the second thing that we have seen emerging here is really where everybody is positioning themselves. so, you have this whole expectations game. where can i possibly finish? and that is from the stop to the bottom. what everyone's trying to do to ted cruz say is, if he doesn't win, it's a huge loss. they're sort of taking donald trump out of it. they know he already has sort of that high position nationally. now they want to knock ted cruz off of that pedestal. so anything but a win, they're trying to say. if you listen to their stump speeches now, is going to be a loss. if you're somebody lower in the pack, if you're a ben carson, if you're a jeb bush, you are somebody who wants to finish ahead of where people think you
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are. many of them in low single digits in the polls. there's so much maneuvering, there's a lot of energy on all sides of this. but it all comes down to, as i said in the beginning, turnout, turnout, turnout. and these final appearances are about energizing people and getting them to go to the caucuses, kate. >> all right, chris jansing. and as we listen to chris, thank you so much. as we listen, we look at a box in the corner there. that's a live event going on. ted cruz talking with voters in e emtsburg, iowa. we'll keep an eye on that. and about last night. high political drama in des moines, the gop debate and donald trump's fund-raiser at the same time, eight minutes away from each other. nbc's katy tur joins me now from des moines. she's covering, obviously, the trump campaign. so donald trump isn't even in the state anymore, right? he's already finished iowa and flown on to new hampshire for today? >> yeah, and he already had his new hampshire event. i think now he is back in new york city. he's going to spend the night there and he'll be back in iowa today. it's really emblematic of this
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trump campaign. they're so confident in how they're doing, they're not even feeling like they need to be in iowa, which as we all know, caucuses on monday. the campaign is really riding high at the moment, when it comes to what happened last night. they think it was the right decision, all the way for him not to attend that debate. and we always -- we've been calling it the elephant not in the room, but in reality, i think he was very much in that room. and he owned that debate, even though ehe wasn't there, forcin all the candidates, as he does every few days to react to what he is doing. and that's the campaign that he's been waging, essentially, for the last seven months. he's said some thing outrageous or done something unpredictable, or called somebody out and said something that nobody expected him to say. and the rest of the candidates will have to react. that's exactly what's happening here. and when i speak with voters, they tell me that's exactly what they like about donald trump. they like that he is
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unpredictable. they like that he's not following the rule book. they like that he's ripping up the system and he's going to go into -- they think he's going to go into washington and just change things. that he's not the status quo, he's not a politician. he's going to be able to get deals done, because this is who he is. look what he's done so far. he doesn't have to attend debates or do anything that they've all done in the past. he doesn't have to do that retail politics. he's not sleeping in the states. so that's what's appealing to his supporters. there are still a lot of people out there who do not like him, and he'll have to, if he gets this nomination, find a way to bridge the gap between those who have liked his extreme rhetoric and those that want more moderate views. >> all right, katy tur, following the trump campaign. katie, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> donald trump says his campaign raised $6 million for veterans at that event that he held last night. so how are vets reacting? let's turn to kelly o'donnell at the vietnam veterans memorial in washington, d.c. and kelly, i know you had a chance to watch the event that
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donald trump held last night, the counter-event to the debate, with veterans. >> reporter: i did, kate. and this is sort of a different mood here. we're only steps away from the iconic wall that honors the fall front vietnam war. and we've seen international tourists pass by, a group from florida just walked by. and they're here to pay their respects. so we thought, one way we could try to get a window into what veterans are thinking is to spend some time last night at one of the posts where veterans gather. it is a slice of life. it's a sample. it doesn't represent the full spectrum of political opinion, but it was interesting to sit with them and spend time and talk, and get a sense of what they thought about the alternative event that donald trump staged. and the attention he is bringing to veterans' issues and the money he says he is raising. and generally, the veterans i talked to were appreciative of that. they don't agree with everything he's done or everything he's said, but they think there is a place for more attention to issues that matter to veterans, the older ones from the vietnam era, and to the younger men and women who have served in iraq
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and afghanistan. here's some of what they had to say. is there any part of you that thinks that he might be using veterans for his political campaign? >> i think he really feels concerned for the veterans. i think he sees the double talk in a lot of politicians about veterans. i think he feels somebody needs to stand up and speak for them from the heart. and as a veteran, i support that very much. >> does it seem authentic to you? >> well, yes. it does. >> reporter: and in talking with veterans, kate, it was not a case where they were trump voters or trump supporters outright, but on this issue, they responded. and i talked with a few other men who were there and watched the event last night.
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and a very similar theme, that they appreciated the attention, they think that there is more that candidates can do to talk about things that matter to veterans. and to try to have some follow-through. that's something they want very much. and so they are open to the idea of voting for trump, so it's not a case that these were trump voters in waiting. but on the issue of veterans, it touched them in a way, and they say that he might be able to, through all of the circus that is around the trump campaign, shine a light on things that matter to them. kate? >> kelly o'donnell, interesting perspective. thanks for bringing that to us. fighting now for the man fighting to pass donald trump in the gop race, that's ted cruz, he's doing a live event in iowa. with donald trump out of the building last might, the republican debate was cruz's chance to be the leader of the pack. joining me now, nbc news senior political editor, mark murray. mark, nice to see you again. the other candidates really did go after cruz last night, and that's not an accident, right?
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he was sort of the top target out there. >> yeah, it's never easy being the front-runner, even when you're the front-runner because the number one person in the polls decided to not participate in the debate. but ted cruz got some of the toughest questions. his opponents were hitting him from the left, from the right. and just really kind of explains the difficulty of being the front-runner. but kate, it went even beyond that. some of the lines ted cruz has used in past debates, remember attacking the media as he did in october's cnbc debate, he tried that tactic again last night, complaining about some of the questions that he was getting, and that ended up getting boos from the audience. he also tried to one-up co-moderator chris wallace, in a game of interruption, and chris wallace ended up winning that. so all the way around, whether it was the opponents, the audience, the moderators, ted cruz had a really rough night last night. >> does he need to win iowa on monday? >> to get the republican nomination?
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i think so. his path, it was always about winning iowa, using that as a slingshot into south carolina and the march 1st starts, we call often the s.e.c. primary, because they're occurring in places like alabama, georgia, and texas, and be able to use that to start racking up delegates. it's possible ted cruz could come in second or third place and have some type of role in future contests, but to be able to win the nomination, i think his path was always about winning iowa first, and going into the other contests, to be able to get a lead. but kate, it is worth noting, even though our on polls show that donald trump is now ahead over ted cruz, that cruz is still within striking distance. a lot of it depends on turnout, as chris jansing was just telling you earlier, and if the normal kind of caucusgoers come, the republicans who caucus in 2008 and 2012, if that's what the electorate looks like on monday night, that is something that benefits ted cruz. so do not count him out of possibly ending up winning on monday night. >> mark murray, thanks so much. and ted cruz joins "meet the press" this sunday morning on nbc.
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so be sure to check your local listings for that. for more on who won last night's debate, i'm joined now by msnbc's political correspondent, steve kornacki. i always hesitate to use that word, "win" and "lose," because sometimes it's a tie. >> sometimes it's a tie. and sometimes it's a cliche, you could win by not showing up. and that could be the case here for donald trump. one thing that struck me, one of the dynamics was the issue of immigration. and there's vulnerabilities for all of those candidates onstage last night with the republican base in terms of their records on immigration. and i think the net effect of what you watched last night, if you were a republican caucus go goer out there in iowa, you saw ted cruz taking heat from the moderators, over megyn kelly in particular, over his past statements on immigration, marco rubio going after ted cruz, ted cruz going after rubio, rubio going after bush. they were all going after each other, piling on each other. the one person who was untouched in all of that, pretty much, was donald trump. and you think about the salience
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of immigration as an issue with the republican base. that's something where donald trump has really aligned himself with the republican base. those credentials were not challenged in that debate last night, but every one of his opponents had their credentials challenged last night. >> steve kornacki in the newsroom, thanks so much. >> sure. three days to iowa, the democrats are crisscrossing the state as well today, bringing heavy hitters out to the trail. who the candidates are calling in, as we count down to caucus night. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain...
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three days out from the iowa caucuses and there is some breaking news about hillary
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clinton this afternoon that's already drawing comments from republicans. today, the state department said they will not release seven e-mail chains, 22 e-mails in all, that were either from or two hillary clinton, because the state department says they contain what they now consider to be top-secret information. it's the first time that the state department has refused to release entire e-mails. they say they were not marked classified at the time they were sent, but in hindsight, are now being considered top-secret, and therefore they won't be released to the public. let's turn to nbc's kristen welker with the clinton campaign in des moines, iowa. and kristen, we just had the spokesman on a little while from the clinton campaign, saying, essentially, there is no big deal. we've heard this before. but, certainly, three days before the caucus, this is not welcome news. >> reporter: politically, this is not ideal for the clinton campaign. th this couldn't come at a worse time, because caucusgoers are going to go to their caucus
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locations and weigh in for the first time on monday. you are absolutely right, though. the clinton campaign underscoring what we have heard from them so many times before. the state department has released her e-mails and they've upgraded some of them to classified. so that part of this is not new. what is new is that they are actually deciding not to release some of these e-mails. and the clinton campaign pushing back on that very strongly. brian fallon releasing this statement, in part, saying, quote, we firmly oppose the complete blocking of the release of these e-mails. this appears to be the overclassification run amok. we will pursue all appropriate avenues to see her e-mails are released in a manner consistent with her call last year. of course, secretary clinton has been very firm that she wants to see all of her e-mails released. now, again, this is a wrinkle, as secretary clinton is locked in a very tight battle here in iowa, with bernie sanders. and as you know, kate, one of the issues for secretary clinton is that some voters say they have problems trusting her. so a story like this could make
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that argument more difficult for her. for her part, secretary clinton has been out here canvassing the entire state, and tonight she's going to appear with her husband, former president bill clinton and over the weekend with chelsea clinton. kate? >> and kristen, a new ad just out this afternoon, as this e-mail news is bubbling, and coming out. we also got a new ad that i think we can show now. this is sort of a thank you to iowa, a final ad before the caucus. >> it is. and we've heard secretary clinton's closing argument for the past several weeks now, arguing that she's the most experienced. she's the toughest person to take on republicans in a general election. this is a part of her closing argument. take a look at the ad released just a few moments ago. >> i really wanted to start with a thank you. i want you to know how much it has meant to me as i've traveled across the state to hear about people's hopes and struggles, and i know, because of that, i will be a better president if
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i'm elected. and if you go to the caucus on monday night and stand up for me there, i will work my heart out to give you and our country the future that we deserve together. i'm hillary clinton and approved this message. >> so secretary clinton trying to reach voters on a very personal level, urging them to go out and caucus for her on monday. and of course, kate, this will all come down to voter turnout. young voters tend to favor bernie sanders. if they turn out in big numbers, it could mean a sanders' win. on the other hand, if you get a lot of women voters, a lot of more senior voters, that could mean a big clinton win. regardless, both campaigns are really focused on their ground games right now, making sure that their supporters turn out on monday. kate? >> and kristen, i heard that bill clinton today was a little sharper in his language, not mentioning bernie sanders by name, but essentially going after him a little bit. what can you tell us?
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>> reporter: bill clinton's really been like the attack dog in the past few days, kate, allowing secretary clinton to talk about her record and her experience. bill clinton pushing back on bernie sanders's criticism of her, and also drawing sharp distinctions, trying to make the argument that secretary clinton has the more practical plan when it comes to things like the economy, taking on wall street, fixing health care. take a listen to what he had to say earlier today. >> there are some differences between the candidates. one says we should pay for everybody's tuition. hillary said, no, i think we should pay for the tuition, books, and other basic expenses of middle class people and below. on the health care thing, there's a big difference. and to be fair, her opponents' he c health care plan is not old, it was released today in the last debate, after there had been some discussion about the other one. and the progressive analysts
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have said that the numbers don't add up, but that's not what i want you to think about. >> of course, bill clinton very popular with democrats. he was hugely instrumental in 2012, with president barack obama's re-election campaign. so the clinton campaign hoping that he can bring some of that magic to the trail this time around. we'll have to see if it all pays off on monday. kate? >> kristen welker out with the clinton campaign, thanks so much. and hillary clinton, by the way, joins my "nightly news" colleague, lester holt tonight on "nbc nightly news." be sure to tune in on your nbc station. turnout, turnout, turnout. it is a political cliche at this point, but the results of the iowa caucuses will come down to who's able to bring new caucusgoers into the fold. it's a point that democratic candidate bernie sanders underscored earlier today. >> so on monday night, i hope that you will come out, i hope that you will give thought to supporting my candidacy, because the eyes of this country will be
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on iowa. and if we win this election, it's going to be a very, very close election. it will depend on voter turnout. >> joining me now to walk through the turnout factor, msnbc.com senior editor, beth fouhy is with us. we keep saying it, but it's so true. sometimes it comes down to the weather at 7:00 on a monday night. >> oh, a lot of things can go wrong, or right, for a candidate in iowa. but for senator sanders, there is no question that he needs a very large turnout. we all remember that from 2008. barack obama basically doubled the turnout in 2008, from the caucus before. they brought out so many new caucusgoers and he won that caucus very handedly. senator clinton came in third. so basically, bernie sanders is trying to replicate that. it's getting out those new people, getting out students. it's a tall order. in retrospect, it seems like it was very natural, that they would all come out for barack obama, but it wasn't. the obama campaign had a very, very, very well-developed turnout program that had been in
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place for a year before that vote. so senator sanders has a very, very tall bar to climb on that. >> and hasn't had an operation for nearly as long, i don't think. >> he has not. he has not. and secretary clinton learned her lesson from '08. so she's really been building up that organization over the last year. >> what about republicans? same thing for donald trump, right? he's weigh ahead in the polls, but if ted cruz can turnout weigh more than donald trump, then -- >> it's a little bit different, just because there's so many more candidates in the field. so they'll all be divided up. that number of people that come out, however many there are, already divided up among seven or eight candidates. but trump has shown no sign of losing any steam. he has a good ground organization. we're not going to know until monday night, how good it is. but because he is so much stronger than any other candidate in the field, by far, it would be a little bit surprising at this point if he didn't do well. >> and earlier, months ago, everybody was saying, oh, no, the trump supporters are not the ones that will actually show, right? they're the ones that are sort of not really political
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participants. you don't hear people saying that as much anymore. >> not as much. it's still a possibility that this would be ephemeral and these are people who came to his rallies but won't come out to vote. but let's face it, he has been so strong and just getting stronger throughout the months of this campaign, that he would suddenly fall off would be very improbable at this point. >> so, if you had to predict -- i know, nobody likes that question. but do we get a huge turnout, like obama? do we get something in between? do we get single digits? what do we get? what was the top, they've had -- >> it was 240,000 people came to caucus in 2008, democrats. that was after 125,000 in 2004. that's a difference that was almost double the size. can we expect something that big? hard to say. we have a bernie sanders' phenomenon that we're not sure how to measure it at this point. we know that young people love him. we know that they support him, that they're out there volunteering for him. getting them out to caucus is a whole different thing. and because of the way that the math is done in the caucus, they can't all come out in those
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college towns. it doesn't get him enough of the vote. they need to be spread out across the whole state for it to matter. >> all right, beth fouhy, thanks so much. coming up, we're going to be talking about with someone from the sanders' campaign. plus, an interview -- in an interview windshield say, with his national press secretary for latino outreach, coming up. parking is hard to find. seems like everyone drives. and those who do should switch to geico because you could save hundreds on car insurance. ah, perfect. valet parking. evening, sir. hello! here's the keys.
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hillary clinton just took a moment on the campaign trail to talk with our colleague, nbc's lester holt. here's a portion of their conversation, just in. >> you have painted bernie sanders as a bit of a dreamer, a bit of an idealist, who can't deliver. so talk to me about all of those supporters who propelled him to where he is right now. are they dreamers, are they idealologists for launching on to his revolution? >> we both want the same thing. we both want to make sure the wealthy pay finally their fair share of taxes. we want to make sure we get to universal coverage. but what i think is the
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smartest, most effective way to get results is to build on the progress we've made. >> you're safe? is that what you're saying? >> i think i'm smart and prepared and i know what it takes to get change made. >> lester holt sitting down with hillary clinton, exclusively. you can catch more of lester's interview with her tonight on "nbc nightly news," on your local nbc station. be sure to tune in. and let's turn to nbc's kasie hunt now for the flip side. she's following the sanders' campaign out in iowa today. casey, let me ask, first, are you hearing anything from the sanders' camp about the breaking news we've been reporting about hillary clinton's e-mails? >> reporter: at this point, kate, we don't have anything new from the sanders' campaign on this. we do know, of course, that this is an issue that he hasn't really focused on. in that early debate with hillary clinton, he dismissed it, saying that the american people are tired of hearing about the e-mail scandal and he wants to move on and debate the issues. >> and tell me about today.
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five events. where are you now? you're not on the bus anymore. where are you? >> we've temporarily relocated from the bus. it's actually moving on its way through iowa city, where he's actually going to be on saturday, for kind of a capstone rally here in iowa. he's going to have vampire weekend, the band, here. they hope thousands of people. this, of course, is a college town. so it's a place where they're really expecting to be able to run up the score, if they're going to have a chance of beating hillary clinton. this is kind of on the map. we're driving through here, on the way to the next events in davenport and dubuque, obviously, for those who followed the iowa caucuses closely, two other major cities here in iowa, media markets, places to hit. so sanders has been out, basically offering up his closing argument. take a listen to what he had to say earlier today. >> and that is what this campaign is about. that's what monday night caucus is about.
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do we go -- do we continue with establishment politics and economics? same old, same old, or do we have the courage to do what's right for working families all over this country? so on monday night, i hope that you will come out. >> and, of course, bill clinton, actually, on the trail, making a more intense argument than we've heard so far, against what you just heard from sanders. sanders saying that they have to stand up against establishment economics. now, the issue, of course, that the clintons are raising, is that many of bernie sanders's proposals would be very difficult and realistically, likely impossible, to get through congress, as it stands right now. the sanders' campaign, of course, arguing that wholesale change across the system is needed. and that's what voters here have been responding to, as they support sanders, more and more,
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in recent weeks. we've, of course, seen his poll numbers in iowa take a dramatic jump upwards, through the fall and winter, kate. >> all right. kasie hunt. and i am envious of you, vampire weekend, all politics aside, that's a great ticket. you'll have so much fun. joining us now, i'm joined by erica andeola is with us, with the bernie sanders campaign, thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> i want to get your reaction to the breaking news we've been reporting. in the last hour, the state department saying that 22 e-mails that were sent or received on hillary clinton's e-mail server, that private server, are not going to be released to the public, because they deem them too classified. they deem them top secret now. bernie sanders has previously said that he is sick of the e-mail story, but what do you make of this breaking news? >> reporter: well, you know, echoing what bernie has said, you know, what we want to make
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sure that we are continuing to talk about the actual issues that people want to hear about. and these are real issues that folks are concerned, talking about really, you know, having health care for everybody, universal health care, what bernie has been saying for, you know, many months now, that we need to have free education for the community, for every american here that deserves it. that's what we want to focus on. we want to focus on those issues. and like bernie said, we don't want to play politics, we want to continue to have the same message that we have had, that we need to actually solve this problem saying, do this for the political revolution. >> we've had reports of a massive undertaking by your campaign to try to drive not just young voters, but specifically latino voters to the caucuses on monday night. how are you doing that? how are you going about that? >> well, we are -- we have been working very hard here on the ground in iowa. we have been able to speak to people in many, many events. you have seen bernie's events, having, you know, huge -- we have had people show up to all
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of these events to be able to hear his message. but we have also been able to knock on doors. we have -- our volunteers have been able to make thousands of calls, and many of those calls have been bi-lingual. we want to make sure we're reaching out to the community here in iowa, who are not necessarily english speakers, who want to hear what bernie has to offer. and every time we talk to the latino community here, they love the fact that bernie has been speak so much about education for everybody, health care for the entire community, and including the latino community, has been a community who would really benefit out of universal health care, free education for our children, and of course, immigration reform that would help millions of undocumented people come out of the shadows. >> erika, immigration was a major topic at last night's republican debate, as i'm sure you know. i want to play you a quick clip and ask you about. >> i do not support blanket amnesty -- >> you said more than that.
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>> you said, earned path to citizenship is basically code for amnesty. you supported earned path to citizenship. >> and the time and context was in 2009 and 2010, where the last effort for legalization was an effort done in the senate. an effort led by several people that provided almost an instant path, with very little obstacles. >> erika, we understand that you're an undocumented immigrant yourself. your family came to this country. when you hear the republicans arguing over a path to citizenship, what do you think? >> i mean, it's always disappointing, you know, i think that we have heard this argument over and over again, but for what we want to make sure that happens is that we are focusing on the candidates who are talking about, you know, the issues that we care about, in this case, you know, we have seen that bernie has the most progressive and the biggest, most detailed immigration platform out there, as well as other platforms that, again, is what's going to really get to the ears of the latino community, the ears of the american people, and especially
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the fact that a lot of these solutions are going to happen once we are able to really change the political system that we have right now, where, you know, our politicians are listening more to wall street and the millionaires than they are listening to the people. that is the message that bernie has, and that's going to be the way in which we're able to change, also, the immigration system that we have right now, that it's pretty broken. >> erika andiola, national press secretary for latino outreach with the bernie sanders campaign, erika, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> in iowa, volunteers will be spending the weekend pushing hard to get people out to monday's caucuses, but they won't just be punching numbers on a phone. volunteers will hit the streets, going door to door, to get their candidates' message out. msnbc's jacob soboroff is in des moines, where he spoke with some of those volunteers and kind of got a sense for the operation. this is the real groundwork, right, jacob? >> reporter: absolutely, kate, we talked about it the other day, how complicated and unique and somewhat bizarre the iowa
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caucus process is. you have to show up at 7:00 p.m. on a monday night and stay there for two hours, particularly on the democratic side. it's not just the candidates' messages that are getting people out. it literally requires all of the sweat, all of the blood, all the tears of the volunteers. and quite literally, knocking on doors. i went over to the hillary clinton campaign, to see what the secret is to actually getting people out and showing up. take a look. >> a thought exercise. let's do a little scenario here. i'm at home, knock on the door, here we go. okay? knock on the door. >> all right. >> who is it? >> this is jenna, i'm a volunteer with hillary. >> hello? >> hi. >> hi, can i help you? >> yeah, my name is jenna, i'm a volunteer with hillary for iowa and i'm going around your neighborhood and trying to find people who are coming to join us on caucus night and i'm hoping that you're going to be a hillary supporter. >> i was thinking about supporting bernie. >> and why is that? what kind of issues are really getting you excited, making you kind of lean that direction?
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>> free college for everybody. >> well, you know hillary is also -- >> wait a minute, you're good. this is good. you have an answer. all right, let's go. >> yeah, so, hillary is also offering a free college plan, which i would suggest that you look into, it's on her website, but i can give you a little bit about it as well. her plan is offering the same kind of -- that free state college, kind of reaching out for that. it's something that we've adapted in a lot of european countries, something that we need to have here, especially as a 23-year-old, someone who's just graduated from college, i'm definitely seeing the effects of that. some of bernie's things, he hasn't quite pinpointed how he's going to do that yet and i think it's an interesting thing to know. >> interesting, i might reconsider. >> that would be great! >> i think that that was pretty good! >> so she was pretty good. jenna was pretty good. if you think about it, kate, there are people like jenna on both sides of this, both on the bernie sanders side and on the hillary clinton side, and when you count all the republicans as well here, there are literally
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thousands and thousands of volunteers fanned out across this state. jenna is from urbandale, iowa, a suburb just to the north. but thousands feel so compelled, they're trying to get people out to the iowa caucuses on monday night. >> so interesting. jacob, thanks so much. from planned parenthood to the budget and obamacare, we are fact checking last night's debate afts we do after each debate, three days before the iowa caucuses. "beth" by kiss ♪ beth, i hear you calling.♪.
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beforburning, pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet served my country, carried the weight of a family, and walked a daughter down the aisle. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain. from moderate to even severe diabetic nerve pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever,
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tired feeling or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and my biggest reason to walk calls me grandpa. ask your doctor about lyrica. those of you who watched last night's debate might have had some questions about what was said on stage. not necessarily because you disagreed, but maybe because you weren't sure of the accuracy of some of the candidates' claims. joining me now to fact check as we always do last night's republican debate, "washington post" fact checker glenn kessler is with us again. good to see you again. >> nice to be with you. >> let's start off with ted cruz and his criticism of obamacare last night.
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let's roll that sound. >> we have seen now in six years of obamacare that it's been a disaster. it is the biggest job killer in this country. millions of americans have lost their jobs, have been forced into part-time work, have lost their health insurance, have lost their doctors, have seen their premiums skyrocket. >> we've all been wondering about that one. is that accurate, inaccurate? >> well, he jumbles a lot there to get to his total of millions. but, it, largely, is not accurate. there were, maybe about 2 million americans who had their old plans disqualified under the new law because they didn't meet standards, but those plans were easily replaced. but you also had 18 million americans gain health insurance as a result of the affordable care act. in terms of it being a job killer, there have been now five years after the law was implemented, there have been a number of studies that have looked into this, and they have not found that it has killed
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jobs. they have not found evidence that it has forced people into part-time work. yes, there are companies here and there who have said they have done that. but overall, in terms of affecting employment in america, it doesn't add up. >> let's move on to marco rubio, he took a swing at ted cruz and his budget voting record. >> the only budget that ted has ever voted for is a budget that rand paul sponsored that brags about cutting defense spending. >> true? >> well, let's put some -- this is something that requires context. yes, it was a budget that rand paul sponsored, and yes, it did brag that it, quote, cut defense spending, but that is a cut against the president's proposed budget and also against the baseline for spending. in terms of real dollars, it was going up. >> okay. and finally, chris christie asked for his suggestion on what could be cut to balance the budget. here's what he said. >> can you name even one thing
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that the federal government does now that it should not do at all? >> yeah. you want one? >> i want one. >> yeah. how about one i've done in new jersey for the last six years and that's get rid of planned parenthood funding for the united states of america. >> anything bigger than that? >> bigger than that? let me tell you something, when you see thousands upon thousands upon thousands of children being murdered in the womb, i can't think of anything bigger than that. >> fact check that one, glen? >> well, first of all, planned parenthood as a percentage of the federal budget is just pennies on the dollar. it's 0.004% of federal discretionary spending. it's very little. none of that money, under the law, none of that money can be used for paying for abortions. so when christie says, i need to do this because of unborn
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children, cutting all that funding would not affect that in the least. >> glen kessler with "the washington post" joining us again to do a fact check, we'll have you back for the democrats, as well. thank you so much. and we've all been wondering whether donald trump's gamble to skip last night's debate pay off for him? one way of determining that is looking at the ratings. joining me now with a close look at those numbers, msnbc's senior editor of digital and video content. >> 12.5 million tuned in to watch the fox news debate. that's going to allow for fox to declare victory and for donald trump to declare victory. and here's why. if you look at the previous six debates, this was the seventh republican debate. there's been a steady decline in viewerships. it started in august with 24 million people. all the way until now, where you have 12.5 million people. so, that steady decline is pretty typical of viewer fatigue when it comes to debates. the real question is how many viewers did he actually pull away? that we don't know yet. but i want to show you this tweet from donald trump, where he's claiming, they say if i
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participated in last night's debate, there would have been 12 more viewers and it would have broken the all-time record, kate, i have no idea what he's talking about. i think he's probably referring to that first debate of 25 million viewers. >> who is "they"? >> i think he's referring to fox. "they say," i don't know. >> cal perry with the new numbers in, thank you. also, preliminary numbers in on just how much money donald trump helped raise for military veterans last night. and coming up, we're going to break down where that money is headed. performance... ...reimagined. style... ...reinvented. sophistication... ...redefined. introducing the all-new lexus rx and rx hybrid. agile handling. available 12.3-inch navigation screen and panorama glass roof. never has luxury been this expressive. this is the pursuit of perfection.
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according to his campaign, last night, donald trump raised $6 million at the rally he hold in lieu of participating in the republican debate. today, we're learning more about exactly where that money is going. and for that, we're going to check in with msnbc contributor and "new york times" correspondent, josh barrow, nice to see you. >> good to see you. >> so $6 million, they say? >> yeah. >> and where does it go? >> they released a list of 22 organizations that will be receiving the proceeds of it. we reached out to a few of those organizations today. spoke with a couple of the directors of these who are just thrilled that donald trump had selected them for this. >> i'm sure. >> they were very pleased. they don't know yet exactly how much money they're going to be getting. one was an organization based in oklahoma, where trump had actually visited with a number of service members who receive services from that organization, when he was campaigning there. so they had sort of stayed in touch and followed up after that. we spoke with another organization called american hero adventures that had not yet
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been contacted by the trump campaign, but were pleased to learn they were going to be receiving such a donation. and one interesting statement from a group called the dav serviceable charitable trust and they serve physically injured veterans and they released a statement, basically, saying, you know, we're very pleased about the donation, but the donation does not imply an endorsement for donald trump and we hope all candidates will support ver support veterans in this way, but separating the donation from the political activity. and i think that points to something interesting. was this a publicity stunt? yeah, but it was a publicity stunt that raised $6 million, which is a lot of money that these organizations can do a lot of good with. >> and a lot of them smaller organizations as opposed to the big name brand organizations. >> i spoke with one, which is the puppy jake organization, a small organization based in iowa that trains service animals for veterans. these are not big national groups for the most part we've heard, but small, local
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organizations. >> very donald trump of him to do that. >> yes. >> josh, thanks so much, appreciate it. and here's jane wells with the cnbc market wrap. jane? >> hi, kate. the markets ended up on a friday, two weeks in a row. take a look at the dow pinpoint ended up almost 397 points. the s&p up 47 and the nasdaq up over 107 points. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful,
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...myrbetriq may be right for you. visit myrbetriq.com to learn more. you have to feel healthy... on the outside ...at your core. trubiotics a probiotic from one a day naturally helps support both your digestive and immune health by combining... ... two types of good bacteria. trubiotics. be true to your health. well, we keep talking about turnout on monday for the caucuses and the question is, could weather play a factor on turnout there monday night? weather channel meteorologist alex wilson is here with a caucus forecast. alex? >> well, kate, all eyes on this
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next big blast of wintry weather. they're hoping that it doesn't disrupt things in iowa on monday. luckily, monday's forecast showing it's areas off to the west that are going to get in on the heaviest snow. places like denver. tuesday, iowa, you're in the thick of things. most of the stays dealing with the snow, heavy at times. a wintry mix, even in the far southern and southeastern parts of the state. for most of the state of iowa, it's snow. luckily, it's one day after. so that's the good news. it's coming on tuesday. as far as snowfall accumulations, we're thinking 6 inches to a foot of snow, a good bet across much of the state of iowa. and that would be ending late on wednesday. des moines, your forecast through the weekend shows saturday's dry, sunday bringing a few showers for the morning. monday, near perfect. we've got temperatures near 40, no weather problems, a mix of sun and clouds. the weather problems roll in on tuesday with the snow, the wind and the wind remains into
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wednesday with those temperatures only in the teens. kate? >> all right, alex, the campaigns will like that forecast. that does it for this hour. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's friday, it's a top-secret surprise. will the clinton e-mail is aga drive a sanders surge or drum up anti-clinton outrage for the gop? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening from des moines and welcome to another edition of "mtp daily." just under 72 hours before the first doors open at the iowa caucuses, and we seem to have a potential january surprise on our hands. what has been the routine monthly release of hillary clinton's state department e-mails has a

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