tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC February 8, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PST
and now... i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. good evening, i'm lawrence o'donnell, rachel maddow is here tonight to get in her last word about the voting here in new hampshire. it starts in exactly two hours. >> here we come. >> maureen sanders and donald trump -- bernie sanders and donald trump pop the polls. >> this is our sort of final lovefest. >> this is a crazy, crazy race on the republican side. [ applause ] >> of all people, you'd never expect ben carson to fall asleep at the wheel. >> the great marco malfunction. >> you took a lot of criticism saturday night. >> this notion that barack obama doesn't know what he's doing is untrue.
>> there he is, the memorized speech. >> this is great for people that cover politics, not voters. >> gut instinct where you finish tomorrow in. >> i don't know. i think we will good evening roach expectations. >> he provides out his mother. >> trump, loser. >> oh my god. >> this country needs a political revolution. >> it sound like socialism to me. >> democratic socialism. >> eh, what's the difference? >> huge difference. >> huge? >> huge. ♪ >> they're holding their leads in new hampshire and the latest polls, bernie sanders is 16 points ahead of hillary clinton at 56. and the university of massachusetts tracking poll, that's out today, on the republican side the same poll shows donald trump at 34% and in
what could be a four-way virtual tie for second place, where all the action will be tomorrow night. this is within a margin of error of five points in that poll. ted cruz, marco rubio, tied at 13, jeb bush, john cakes at 10. at his last campaign event before the voting begins in new hampshire, donald trump said this. >> tomorrow you have to get out and you have to vote no matter what. i say it all the time. if you're sick, if you're really like you can't move, you're close to death, your doctor tells you, it's not working, your wife is disgusted with you, she said, i'm leaving, no matter what, she says, darling, i love you, but i've fallen in love with another man, i don't give-a-damn. you got get out to vote. >> rachel maddow, donald trump, there, imagining every possible
adversity that could come your way before making that trip to the polls, including your wife deciding your marriage is over. you got to get yourself to the polls. >> i was just thinking, it's like the lemony sick inet. imagine the worst possible ting following you at all times and something somehow entertaining and motivating. it's not very morning in america. >> no, it's not. >> but it apparently is working. >> steve kornacki. you have been following the details of these polls. what are you looking for tomorrow notice? >> let me give you a different taste, donald trump fought winning in iowa, obviously a better position in new hampshire. the numbers show why. the entrance polls show 85% of the republican voters there last week called themselves very or somewhat conservative. the last time they had a primary in thmp, barely half the republican voters described themselves that way. look at this. nearly 50% of new hampshire republican voters in 2012 call
thems moderates. look how small that was in new hampshire. another way of looking at i. evangelicals, 62% of the republican electorate in iowa, in new hampshire, one of the post-secular states in the country. 22%, have you noticed donald trump has been dropping for profanity, he wasn't spaer swearing then. ma ib this statistic has something to do with that. we can also show you on the map where this is coming from. it isn't the state of new hampshire, obviously, this is the share of the state wide vote that comes out of each country. what you see down here, more than half the vote from these two counties. you have the biggest cities in hillsborough, you basically have the boston intump suburban, you have the bedroom communities, more white collar professional commuter. they're more moderate on social issues, they're very, very anti-tax. a lot of people think they have been taxd or priced ot out of massachusetts. >> that itself the republican voter we are talking about here,
lawrence. >> stuart stevens, the three network threat. shows on showtime, bloomberg and right here on msnbc. john, the three lane theory, stewart has talked about it, saying that this is something that people are believeing in, without everyday. >> it's destroying many earthquake. >> it's destroying america. is there, is there a three lane situation on the republican side? or is swurt wright right to say republicans have not made a mistake in going after donald trump? because he has his own unsaleable lane. >> stewart may be right. the republicans are not violating the way. there is sleer e clearly a stream set up. there is another set of more conservative grass roots populist evangelical candidates and then there's trump.
>> he's had a really interestingly echeck lick ideological spectrum that's escorted him everywhere he's gone. it may be true, if there were a strong man in the republican party, somebody that had enough dexterity and ideological breadth they can take trump down. so far anybody n has been swatted away. there is a part of the reason stewart is dreaming when he hopes someone will stand up and do that, everyone's looked at what happened and said, i don't want to mets with that guy. he crushes people. whether it was jeb bush, herb mccain, ted cruz for a little while. people don't want to mess with him. he's better at playing the negative politics game that they are. >> that said, it may be at some point, someone will have to do what stewart wants them to do in order to stop trump. >> your point is why didn't they do this months ago? >> i had no idea.
generally, it's best detective when they're weakest, not strongest. you don't take a chechoslovakia poll and meet them in paris and stop first. i think this week donald trump was very vulnerable t. guy who said testifies a winner came into new hampshire a loser. yet all of these other campaigns seem dedicated to playing for who will be 1st or 2nd or 3rd place. i found it baffling. i think the co-to attracting donald trump is not just in free media bill. because he dominates so much of the statistics, he will outshout you want you have to back it up with paid media as well. sense we know he responds to everything, he's a perfect target hit on several fronts in some sort of contrast. i think ultimately that will happen. i suspect it will happen in south carolina. >> what is the right message against donald trump? whether are you doing it through freed media or paid media or compensation. i feel a lot of things have been tried, i'm a liberal looking at
i. the one that felt to he me was when they were painting him as a liberal, someone that supports democrats, single health care, all that stuff seemed to roll out. >> i think that the way that you attack them is go with tear essence. the essence of donald trump is that he's a ridiculous candidate for president he doesn't take running for president seriously. he sort of stumbled into this. he's a lot more jesse ventura than even not. he hasn't studied. he hasn't done the things you would do to become a serious candidate for president he is doing what he enjoy, having rallies, he's not meeting with teachers, asking people with their vote. he's not coming up with health care policies, their people die in the street. like there is a pro die in the street, you know, category out there some people are for. so i think that if somebody needs to stand up there and look them in the eye and say running for president is a great privilege. you are not taking that privilege seriously. you are a ridiculous candidate.
>> what do republicans like about him? >> think of this comparison, bernie sanders getting hit hard by the clinton side saying he doesn't have a foreign policy advisers. who are they? donald trump says, i learned my foreign policy by watching the shows and what republican exploited that? which republican exploited that? >> no one did. to go back to this argument, right, chris christie on saturday night executed a magnificent takedown of marco rubio, right? i asked stewart, christie clearly has the capacity to take on trump, yet he chose to take on rubio instead. i asked him whether he advised to do something differently, i said, no, it makes sense, that's the lane theory and even in that case, stewart has to buy into the lane theory, it made more sense for christie to go over someone. you know, i get what christie did what he did, but it's still i think it makes the point that
it's hard for even the most talented guy in terms of brawling. it still is easier to go after someone who is an easier mark, who you compete for votes. >> no other republican thinks they can get trump voters. bernie maybe can. no other republican candidate. >> let's go to this second place. we got a virtual four-way tie. >> literal. yeah. >> that's what we will be staring at 24 hours from now. how returns are come income for 2nd place. >> same i i'm so excited. here's the ting, a 2nd place for john kasich meant, means he's one powerball on a good powerball. a 2nd place for whoever. >> jeb bush changes the entire story. and he's within striking distance of 2nd place. >> marco rubio or ted cruz get 2nd place, it's sort of static. we don't think that manes anything, other than trump voters can stand out. if trump doesn't win, trump is toast. can you say that. >> anybody disagree with that?
>> does trump survive if he doesn't win inch? >> it would be i think a crippling blow if he were not to win this primary given he has the moment? >> if anybody gets hurt, the stratosphere in terms of momentum, if kasich or jeb get the same as big a dell. trump, rubio or cruz doing the deal, it doesn't mean much. >> i think it will quickly become who will win south carolina. i think the people of south carolina don't care who came in 2nd or 3rd. ron paul came in 2nd. huntsman got 17%. people would kill for 17% in this race. it didn't mean anything in south carolina. i think each of these races will be more hermetically sealed than not. i think your ability to compete in south carolina will be dependent upon what kind of campaign he wages in south carolina. >> here are two other facts t. first is the margins will matter. coming in if trump is at 28, the
2nd place finisher is at 24 and there is a ten-point gap in that 3rd place, that's a different 2nd place than four guys between 15 and 19, right? that's a difference. >> do you think people remember the margins in terms of looking ahead? >> it will be a lot harder to make a claim that you were the dominant establishment main stream play fer they're all bun wered up. it's a muddle. whereas if chris christie is down at 4% tomorrow night, it will be hard for christie to continue to go on with this campaign. whereas if he says 14, he can stand up and say? what does tomorrow night mean to republican campaign investors? you've world with these people. you seen how they react. >> the super pac is a different world. the campaigns never end because they want them to end, they end because they run out of money. in 2012, gingrich didn't win anything, he won iowa. santorum came back.
so i think that the ability to stay in and endure pain is at a higher value now than it's ever been before. >> although, when scott walker quit, he had $14 million in a super pack. so having the super pac money he felt couldn't keep him afloat. i this i the super pac money ends up being harder, much slipperier in terms of whether or not. >> what about the scott walker decision, i want a future in republican plim politics. i don't want to stick in this long enough to prove i don't have a future. >> i don't think scott walker was ready to run for president and to his credit, he realized it when he started to run and i think that was smart. i mean, because people don't understand how difficult it is to run for president and how much more of a step up it is than anything else. so he did.
>> and the cruise in this race has nothing to lose. chris christie doesn't have a future if he doesn't have a future in this campaign. jeb bush has no future if he doesn't have a future in this campaign. >> who knows? chris christie, hillary clinton wins the presidency. he can win it again as an incumbent as the republican nominee. i think the point that you made that's the most important point, it combines with something stewart said, who among these main stream conservative, calm them that, is able to wage a successful campaign against donald trump and ted cruz in south carolina. the bush thing matters a huge amount in that respect. if you look at where kasich is vs. where bush could be, really different. jeb bush has a lot of historic institutional strength in south carolina. if jeb bush can somehow get momentum, he becomes a real player. i'm not sure john kasich with 21%, i'm not sure he can play in south carolina at the level --
>> of trump and cruz. >> i think the two leaders in south carolina will be the two winners, cruz and whoever wins tomorrow night. probably that will be donald trump. i think cruz and donald trump will go in, in leaders in south carolina. it will be up to somebody else to muscle their way up there and take votes away from them to prove they can win. >> you don't agree jeb bush is in a better position than john bush. >> i don't disagree with that. >> you guys keep talking about that during this commercial break. >> coming up, a serious third party threat might be emerging from a real billionaire who is at least ten times richer than donald trump and later, we will hear from real new hampshire voters, actual voters. we're going to talk to them. find out what they will do tomorro hiv . i take pictures of sunrises,
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>> the fbi confirmed today they are investigating hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server while she was secretary of state. that information came from a letter revealed in the freedom of information act case against the state department over access to documents from hillary clinton's time as secretary of state. until now, the fbi would neither confirm nor deny that investigation. >> that still has not publicly acknowledged this focus, scope or these specific starths of the investigation. up next, how that news might affect what happens to hillary clinton's vote tomorrow here in new hampshire. i'm billy, and i quit smoking with chantix. i had a lot of doubts going in.
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>> we started off here about 30, 40 points behind. that's not the case today. >> bernie sanders with a 16 point lead over hillary clinton. >> i have been somewhat concerned about the tone of his campaign. >> do you think he's been unfair to her? >> well, i think he's been in action. >> when you are making a revolution, you can't be too careful about the facts? they said it in iowa. they said it in new hampshire. enough is enough. >> i think going up into new hampshire. >> okay. >> just okay? >> well, it's pretty, pretty, pretty good. >> the latest university of massachusetts poll of likely democratic voters in the new hampshire primary shows bernie sanders at 56%, hillary clinton at 40%. that's a long way from one year
ago when an nbc news maris poll of democratic voters in new hampshire had hillary clinton at 69% and bernie sanders at 13%. >> wow. >> we are back with john heilman, rachel maddo you, david, on this fbi news of the day, that already baked into expectations here in new hampshire? >> i don't think it broke today. i don't think it's going to affect any decisions here. but it just shows there is this crick quick is sand you can't get out of. it doesn't matter at this point what the details are, it's the headlines. it's the impressions him we've seen this rise in thunder on the right that she's going to be indicted. she's going to do this. people are trying to cast doubt and if a person sees a headline or hears a newscast, there is some connection investigation. it may not be about her use of the server, maybe who set it up
or what happened with it. it's still going to bolster that impression. so this is just going to be a part of it and it's, you know, if she loses badly today, tomorrow, and sanders keeps up momentum. this is just another drag. it's an albatross she can't shake. >> is it growing or multiplied? it feels like it's the same one, it's just holder. >> you can't shake it. at some point you want to get this behind you. it was a terrible mistake to set up the server this way. her responses in the first six months have never been clear enough or strong enough. now this is always going to be there and, you know, it's drip, drip, drip. we know how much politicians can be hurt by that. >> i was struck by something she said in the debate you and chuck todd moderated. where she mentioned henry kissinger? yeah. >> in a way that surprised me. let's listen to this. it's on the debate. >> i was very flattered when henry kissinger said i ran the
state department better than anybody had run it in a long time. so i have an idea about what it's going to take to make our government work more efficiently. >> that was in the middle of a very long answer. then today, i'm standing in the middle of a clinton crowd at a clinton rally chel sigh clinton, great speech, introducing her father, then introducing her mother. she's an amazing star on the stage, i have to say. bill clinton, working in his introduction of hillary clinton then said this about henry kissinger. let's listen to it. >> henry kissinger of all people said she ran the state department better and got more out of the personnel at the st. department than any secretary of state in decades and it's true. >> ah, they cut the applause, we were supposed to let the applause run, because the most stunning thing about it was there you are in a democratic primary audience.
>> that is the first time and possibly the only time a henry kissinger line got the democratic. >> for henry kissinger. >> there is a valuation. >> he is spitting on his grave. >> what is happening. these guys got it. >> they were working for a government that ran against the nixon, kissinger war machine and you know, after that, everything we learned about henry kissinger after that. >> wiretapping reporters in argentina and indonesia, in east teamore, again and again and again, she gets out there, she says she's a progressive, she's fighting for the progressive label and embraces, accepts the embrings of a guy that representing everything, any progressive doesn't like about foreign policy and national security since world war ii. >> what happened in the room
then? you could see nit that shot. it's all a community college audience. i had my interview there with her after. there is a lot of people in that audience. they're not doing great with young voters, they hear henry kissinger, famous guys, likes her, competent. they don't think, they don't have the agents. >> but just think of what motivated you most when you were getting into politics, whatever it might have been. a couple decades later to use that in a political way. you know, have they changed their views on the vietnam war on what henry kissinger really did? i'd ask you that. >> well, she told me in her interview right after that, i was talking about voters, listen, the first time i came to new hampshire was to campaign for gene mccarthy here, i was an anti-war activists. i understand what it was like being an idealistic young person. she understands, she had been that idealist.
>> this anti-the way to reach him. >> john, the other story on the clinton world today is a possible campaign shakeup which may be inspired by the few national polls showing bernie sanders and hillary clinton in a virtual tie. >> look. there is accurately reported incredible reporting on the campaigns they run. back in 2008, one recall, bill clinton very upset, these lashings out over the last 48 hours are manifest, i think, as a reflection of feel, de ja vu. in 2008, bill clinton frus rate issed for all 2007, saying, why are we not attacking this barack obama character? he's a threat. we should kimm off before he does real damage. she loses iowa. he is apaplectic. now, bernie sanders is the same character. not in that he's entirely analogous to obama.
we let the socialists from bill clinton's point of view from vermont get traction. we didn't kill him. we could have killed him three months ago, now in a tie in iowa. now the frustration president clinton feels and his wife share the way his campaign is run is going to inevitably manifest itself in new hampshire, how do we define a shakeup? in clinton world because they never fire anybody ever. the clintons often throw people under the bus. many will be fired. many will arrive t. greatest krein trick circles will be called upon and somebody, people will arrive and they will be layered. so shakeup will occur. but it won't look like a shakeup. no one will get fired. it will be a bigger more unwieldy campaign like xath. >> you asked her about this. she denied having a shakeup. having heard this, does that
answer fit that possibility where it's an expansion, not a shakeup in. >> she said they would be taking stock. >> and we would have what? >> which leaves the total. she don'ted the political report and said the campaign would be taking stock. >> we'll see what we're working with, we'll make adjustments. it includes layering. >> i understand why bill clinton may be frustrated. i think the hardest thing may be to tell a spouse you are not doing a good job. particularly when you are bill clinton, hillary clinton. the issue is not the management. >> of course. >> clearly what's coming down from the top. bill clinton getting out there yesterday, dumping on the idealistic kids of the bernie sander's campaign. you can't kill bernie now. bernie is message driven. the message is taken home. the only way to beat bernie is by being better your own way. >> the thing that has been true from the very beginning and bernie sanders called dprit his
first speech was that he would be underestimated. there is a fact, when you look at his electoral history, he has been in office a long time, maybe that makes him a person able win elect, including against democrats. he's the only democrats who has tons of experience beating democrats. >> you were on the plane and i mean the plane of the season. you were on bernie sanders's, he was on the sanders' plane to new york to do "saturday night live." you captured footage of that on your iphone for your showtime instantaneous documentary you are doing there. what was it like being on the pla ento business central? >> they are used to having protection. it's a difficult tran sig for any candidate. bernie sanders is an unusually cranky candidate. so of all the candidates go through this. there is that. they were excited to be going down and doing it. i raised the question whether it made sense.
you remember this 3r50i78ary if your history, part of what obama did wrong here was he flew way up here and hillary clinton was campaigning way down here, near the ground. he was doing big rallies. i asked them, do you think there is concern about them, you are going off to new york to do a glamorous kind of thing. she's going to flint, knocking on doors on saturday. they said, look, we understand the risks here. we want to take advantage of this. we will be back, doing a packed schedule within we get back to new hampshire, et cetera. i think it might have been not just the quite weekend. >> hillary has done "saturday night live." so they're tied now. >> she was in with a big long interview with me today, he was not. >> one thing david excel rod today sweeted this thing that said how on successive campaigns see the same problem with your campaign, it maybe not the campaign problem but your problem about the clintons. >> i do not think of him as a nasty guy. >> the conversation is continuing during the commercial break.
rachel maddo you, thank you all for joining us. i appreciate it. up next, actual voters. >> what? >> will you hear. >> i better go get my suit on. my shield's here. >> we will let them speak hiv . ♪ ♪ it's easy to love your laxative when that lax loves your body back. only miralax hydrates, eases and softens to unblock naturally, so you have peace of mind from start to finish.
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events here in new hampshire. here's what they told us. >> have you decided who you will vote for? >> no, i haven't. but i was swayed very much today. >> i'm undecided. my heart is with bernie. my head is with hillary. i'm concerned who will win in 95. >> it was about hillary. >> i was a hillary voter. i just don't trust her now. i lost trust with her. >> what changed? >> all the e-mails, all the scandals, she seems kind of slick to me. she seems like a wolf in sheeps clothing. >> i probably walked in with like a 60% chance of voting for hillary. this finally sealed the deal for me going into tomorrow. i think she's invigorated. i feel i can get behind everything she says and i feel like she has the experience to really fill the role of president of the united states, unlike a lot of candidates. >> what made you decide to go with bernie? >> well the 2002 vote.
the wall street connections and i think that he's been telling the truth for 20 years, you know it's not only in my head, but my heart. >> if on tuesday you wake up and you vote for hillary, what do you think will have decided that one? >> i really feel a republican congress and a republican president i think would be the worse thing for this country. i think she might have a better chance of winning. >> it's comes down to somebody as bernie could feast the candidate zpli want them to have more fight about him. i want to see more. if you want somebody run the country, i want somebody to not be asleep at the wheel. >> by tuesday you have to get this figured out. >> yes, ei don't know who i'm going to do. >> that last voter, we will find out tomorrow how he votes. coming up, we will hear from
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donald trump's worst nightmare, a real billionaire is actually thinking about jumping out of the presidential race depending on what happens in new hampshire tomorrow night. former new york city mayor michael bloomberg who is at least ten times richer than donald trump. at least. he could be 100 times richer. michael bloomberg said today he is considering a run for president he said, i find the level of discourse and discussion distressingly banal and an outrage and added i am listening to what candidates are saying and what the primary voters appear to be doing. he said, plume berg intended to make a final call on the presidential race by early march and planned to take a fresh round of polling after new hampshire primaries to gij the
viability of a campaign -- gauge the viable of a campaign. with us the chief strategist for mitt romney's last presidential campaign. stewart, this is fascinating. donald trump equates wealth withwell intelligence, mike bloomberg is way, way smarter than donald trump according to trump formula. >> he's not a dummy, i ask myself, what is best for the consult ants of america. >> yes. >> without a doubt. >> he can afford you. >> without a doubt, michael bloomberg would be fantastic. >> what do you face at this stage thinking about an independent run, what are the challenges, ballot access, all of that? >> that's a matter of spending money. mike am bloomberg has proven unlike donald trump that he will spend money, a lot of money. protest candidates tend to do well to a degree that people think they will not win. and i think you are going to see that with trump i hope.
but plume berg would have to convince people that they weren't throwing their vote away to be a credible candidate. i think that he'd have to get into the debate and win debates. that's when this thing will start to get real fundament you are plume berg and you are looking at this, if you look at bernie sander's numbers, ten months ago, they were hopeless compared to hillary clinton. what you saw was campaigning changed minds. you look at donald trump's numbers, campaigning changed minds. in ways you might not like. but donald trump started down in single digits. >> no question. >> he is now up there in the front of this pack. if you are mike bloomberg, same thing when he first fought about running for player in new york, he was polling at 10%. >> right. >> then he poured $60 million in, weigh more than anybody ever spent on that state on state wide races and he changed minds. >> i think that the question here is what is a rationale. what is it that he would offer
people? you know, he's very idea lodge cam. so in that sense, some republicans say he would hurt the democratic candidate more. that's arguable. i think that he would -- smr he will fight the democratic candidate on taxes. >> that would be fascinating. there really has to be a rationale. with bernie sanders, it is a continuation of the democratic party's moves on the left. donald trump's expression is of anger. i think donald trump is to a certain degree a candidate of hate and he's tapping into that. bloomberg would be what do i have to offer that's more than money? >> what about just intelligence? would mike bloomberg will the guy who you have been waiting for who could penetrate the sheer stupidity of the trump cad daisy? >> i think others will be before it. i think that bloomberg would not be intimidated by donald trump. and i think, in fact, trump would tend to be intimidated by him. it all comes down to being able
to layout a rationale for your candidacy and put it out from and attract people. i, you know, i'm skeptical about this, but it would be fascinating to sigh you try. >> what kind of army does he have to assemble and how that st? >> well, he has to get on the ballot, which involves, they have to buy that. you buy ballot access. >> those companies you hire. >> you do each of these. >> get signatures, whatever. >> and all of the different legal issues. he then has to sort of put together organizations in this. now, bernie sanders has a idea logical basic to do that. it's everybody that wants to keep going. bloomberg, tougher. >> stewart stevens, thank you for joining us. appreciate it. coming up, more from new hampshire voters. we are actually going to let the voters speak. they will take stewart's chair on the set, tell us what they're thinking. at safelite, we know how busy your life can be. oh no this mom didn't have time to worry about
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>> the iowa democratic caucus results from last week were the closest in state history. now they are a teeny bit closer. according to des moines register, iowa democrats found five errors in 14 precincts from last monday's caucuses. hillary clinton's lead over bernie sanders dropped to .027% lead to a .025% lead, coming up, three new hampshire voters will join us right here on the set to tell us live just what they're thinking as we get within one hour of the first votes being cast in the new hampshire primary.
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>> voting will begin one hour and ten minutes from now here in new hampshire in three towns. dicksville notch, there are, pictured to be nine voters. two other new hampshire towns will start voting at midnight. the rest of the state will have to wait until tomorrow morning. up next, we will have three new hampshire voters who will be going to the polls tomorrow to join us and tell us what they're i take pictures of sunrises. it's my job and it's also my passion. but with my back pain i couldn't sleep... so i couldn't get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. and now... i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.
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new hampshire voters are expecting a record turnout in tomorrow's primary. joining me three voters that will go to the polls tomorrow. tara mccarthy, a registered independent. also with us carl vaughan, a registered republican and bill zorn, also a registered republican. now we have talked before, so i have some idea of what you are thinking. tara, the last time we talked. you were undecided. carl failed to convince you to vote for his guy donald trump. >> sorry. >> bill didn't get too far trying to convince you to go for marco rubio. you had a debate saturday night. >> yeah. >> are you still undecided? >> i think it's nudged me further in the direction that i was going.
>> let me ask you, did you see anything in the debate saturday night that pushed you toward donald trump? >> no. >> because i think we established nothing on pushing you toward donald trump? >> no, saturday fight definitely did not. >> how about marco rubio? does anything get you interested in marco rubio? >> well, i think he had a much better time in the second half. i think he finally hit his stride. i think he was flustered on a few things in the beginning. i think he will make a better candidate in 2024. >> so he has to wait a while. >> i think so. >> where are you no you? you have voting tomorrow morning? >> when it moves me? i think i'll get in there early. >> you are ready to go early? >> sure. >> you will vote for? >> baby / jeb bush, the bush surge? >> it will be a good vote. carl, your reaction to the debate on saturday.
did trump finally lose you on saturday night? >> yeah, i finally decided to vote for bernie sanders. i don't know if you heard the breaking news, trump just bought dixville notch. it's a shakeup. >> he could do that. >> i'm firmly on board. >> bill, it was, everyone is seeing it was a rough night for your candidate marco rubio. did that sthak i shake your confident, did you start shopping for another candidate? >> it did shake me. no doubt about it. i had an unusual perspective. i saw the second half of the debate to tara's point, i thought he was doing just fine. it was only when he went to the commentators, i realized he struggled so badly. >> you missed the first hour. >> wasn't eight disaster for him? he's lucky. >> so he has to. >> exactly. >> so now i've seen some of the replay of that. does that make you think, maybe tara's got something? this guy isn't ready?
>> right. >> the part that i'm trying to decide is, every once in a while you will have your ace pitcher who will come out in the first few innings, not throw the heat the way he should and get roughed up. that's what i'm trying to ades right now is he agile and facile enough, does he have the skillset come back from really a challenging first hour. >> karl, you say everything that donald trump dez says, you think he says wild things once in a while. on ballots, you are still with the candidacy. tonight across the street at a big rally, he actually used some language we can't use here on tv as an insult to ted cruz about his courage and that kind of thing as he keeps doing it and keeps doing it, is that a cancer on that candidacy that is eventually going to have an effect? >> it didn't seem to be tonight. i was over there. we had a full house. >> you know what we are talking
about zpli was up front. we had a full house. i know exactly what you are talking about. you know, it's not enough to shake me. like i said the other night. >> i i don't it doesn't bother you or offend you, when you look at a candidate, you think about that candidate's durability through long presidential campaign, with a lot of various testing meth odds. >> understand stood. >> and so forth, what about that, do you look at that temperament? >> yeah, i have some trepidation. i think i mentioned i'm hoping he gets a bit more demure as some of the competition falls away. i'm hopeful, whether or not he has it in him to do that, i'm not sure. under the energy that was there tonight, given the context of it, it was a bit tongue in cheek. it wasn't a big deal? tara, you are not surprised at all that donald trump would say things like that? >> no. >> and you have been kind of out steadily against him all the way? >> i'm trying to think of when i really sort of dug in he heels about it.
i guess it was pretty early on. i just see him as a bully. >> it's okay. >> it's okay. >> don't hurt his feelings. >> i see him as a little bit of a bully. a grandstanding bully, but that's not leadership to me. i think standing up to that is. >> if marco rubio is out of this race, do you, where do you go then? do you go towards trump? >> well my concern with trump is i don't know as i call it where his magnetic north is. i don't really know what he truly believes, where is his orientation. there are times it will come out and he'll say i'm the last person to go in and destabilize the middle east. in the next answer, hemosay, i'm going to take all the oil away from isis. so he's inconsistent. i'm never quite sure what's coming out of his mouth. he is probably not the person. probably i would head toward kasich. >> carl, one of the so-called
washington republicans like about donald trump and why they prefer him to ted cruz is they don't believe that donald trump believes anything. and so if he actually showed up in walk, they can walk into a room and negotiate anything with that guy. >> it's telling that that's the one thing they liked about him for something they actually don't like about him. yeah, i mean, for his supporters, that's a plus. all the people that don't like him and the reasons they don't like him and the reasons they done want him are a plus for the people that support him. >> well, what about this foleying that he doesn't really believe anything, he used to think this about abortion. now that he's a republican candidate, he thinks this about abortion. >> that doesn't unsettle anyone? that flexibility? >> i don't think the national stance on abortion will be what destroys this country. that's my feeling. >> tara, are you the bush sumpblth you are representing the surge here tonight. this could be the big news tomorrow. >> well, we'll see. >> tara mccarthy, karl vaughan.
bill, shower about saturday night. thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate it very much. political mardi gras. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. in manchester on the eve of the new hampshire primary. donald trump stands as the overwhelming favorite among republicans here. the fight is on for second place. after marco rubio's robotic, let's call it strange performance in saturday's debate, establishment republicans are looking for a candidate. it's looking wide open. jeb bush, john kasich and chris christie all face an opportunity to grab the silver medal. here's where things stand tonight in the granite state. according to the latest tracking poll, trump is well ahead of his nearest opponents.