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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  February 15, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PST

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of what he said but thought he said in the an absolutely captivating way. >> i think we should leave it at that. you two ever going to agree on big issues >> we agree on a whole lot of stuff. we do. ruth is really bad only on the knee-jerk stuff. she is -- no, she's a really good textualist. you know, and those things where, where the text is what she's guided by, she's terrific. she's obviously very smart. and, most cases i think we're together. how nice was that. that's something you don't get enough of in washington, d.c. and i think of all the things that were said friend
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justice ruth bader ginsburg and their friendship, boy, especially after this weekend, their friendship could teach us a lot about how washington, d.c. should work. good morning, it's monday, february 15, president's day. with us on set, those of us that are in the president's day rotation, washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay. we also have senior political editor -- i love it, senior political editor -- >> what's so wrong about that the? >> senior political editor -- >> repeat it one more time. >> at some point it becomes aged. >> that means you're not a sophomore anymore. you're a senior now. >> i've graduated. i'm almost there. >> sam stein. we also have republican pollster and columnist in at the washington examiner kristen soltsol soltis anderson. in boston, not senior but legh d
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legendary mike barnicle. >> i want legendary. >> jon meacham, before we get into the news, the sad news this weekend of justice scalia, i want to key in on this friendship between scalia and ruth bader ginsburg. ruth bader ginsburg the hero, actually, of many people this weekend who had very nasty things to say about justice scalia right after his death, and this is not a liberal-conservative thing. if a liberal icon pass aid way this would be horrible regrettable things said after the death. but their friendship was extraordinary and i loved what scalia said there. he said "we usually agree.
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it's just the knee-jerk things we don't agree on." that's what i told people about congress, we usually agreed, but there are some things we don't agree on but that's what everybody focused on. but these two really a shining example to everybody in washington, d.c., especially the people on the debate stage the other night. >> this is a postcard from another era. a lot of cynical people will say that people talk about a culture of compromise and a centrist culture and that that's a copout. it's not, really. at our best we've had moments of consensus and personal bonds that have at different points created a warmer way to conduct our politics and i think the ginsburg-scalia relationship is in some ways emblematic of a washington that has fallen
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apart. do we think either one of those people because of their friendship ever compromised their deeply-held principles? no, but did their friendship actually come out of a shared love of country and a love of the institution? yes and i think that's something we can all learn from. >> and justice ginsburg said "we were best buddies. we disagreed --" and this will be surprising to people. "we disagreed now and then." but she wrote about, mike barnic barnicle, how she was made better because of justice scalia and the harsh rhetoric that would offend so many people reading the text actually ruth bader ginsburg saw as a blessing because it made her focus on her weaknesses of argument. she said my opinions were always better because of his tough, stinging dissents. >> you know, joe, it speaks, as job just indicated, to the deterioration of our political system, not the judicial system,
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we just saw that, but the political system. watching that clip, i would ask you, could you imagine mitch mcconnell and harry reid sitting down and having a similar conversation as did justice ginsburg and justice scalia? >> no, but you told me a great story one time about teddy kennedy, your friend and somebody went to ted ken kennedy and asked for something and he said listen, if i did that for you i would get killed but i'm going to call my good friend orrin and he can get it through the senate for you. i'm going stay away. but those two, ted kennedy and orrin had, had a wonderful friendship, nobody would ever accuse them of compromising on their closely held principles because they were dear friends. >> it's hard to frame it up for
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people who don't dwell on it as we sometimes dwell on it. but in the space of a mere 20 years the entire system has changed and i would submit it's changed largely because the emphasis on money in the system, the emphasis on fund raising so people on both sides of the aisle, democrats and republicans, they no longer have the time to get to know one another, to get to know one another's families in the district, in washington, d.c. that i ear always raising money, always going back to their states. >> and katty kay, unfortunately, it's not just republicans/democrats, i think even a bigger cancer on the entire system has been the rise of big business and ideology. so the very people that will tear into a ginsburg decision to raise money for their conservative group and will demonize her will go up against people who would demonize scalia for his conservative opinions so they can raise money. >> because they know how much money the at stake in it and they can raise money from their special interests.
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it's this culture. it's unfortunately extreme ideology pays. >> and i don't know if you found this joe, i've had many members of congress, particularly on the house side, say to me "things changed in washington when we started having a lot of flights out of reagan airport on friday evening. because we left our families at home, we no longer socialized." it's much harder to demonize who you've sat down with. >> i tell the story all the time, when i was in washington, we got there in '94 and that's when we were told "finish your last vote, rush to the airport, go home hold town hall meetings." and we spent more time at home and up there and we stopped socializing our kids stopped going to the same schools, we stopped going to the same church, synagogues, suddenly there was no reason for somebody not to call somebody a nazi or marxist or somebody else. that didn't happen when your kids went to the same school. >> should we get to the latest on the news now?
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the body of justice antonin scalia is returning this morning. the influential conservative jurist was discovered dead over the weekend while on a retreat in west texas with about 30 other people. he would have been 80 next month. scalia's death has already reframed the presidential race and sent both parties digging in for a senate fight. president obama has promised to nominate a replacement, though the white house says it won't come this week. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says there should not be a replacement during the president's final years in office and republican presidential candidates have echoed that position with ted cruz vowing to filibuster any supreme court nominee president obama puts forth. >> far too many republicans don't care about the court, don't invest political capital in it and it's why is many republican nominees have turned out to be disasters and let me say something to the veterans in the state of south carolina. to the veterans in south
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carolina, your second amendment rights are hanging in the balance. justice scalia, one of his biggest opinion was the heller decision 5-4 upholding the individual right to keep and bear arms if an additional liberal justice goes to the court, we're one justice away from the second amendment being written out and if donald trump becomes president the second amendment will be written out of the constitution because it's abundantly clear that donald trump is not a conservative, he will not invest the capital to confirm a conservative so the result -- >> he says he will. >> whether it's hillary, bernie or donald trump the second amendment will go away. >> yesterday on "meet the press" when asked whether he had his own litmus test for judges, donald trump attacked ted cruz for backing chief justice john roberts. >> look, you never know what happens, chuck. you look at where a guy like ted cruz pushed very hard for justice roberts, everyone thought that was wonderful and justice roberts let everybody down by approving obamacare
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twice. he did let us down and that's largely cruz's paufault because they put the wrong guy in there. there w that was a shocking decision. >> cruz acknowledged backing roberts was a mistake saying he went along with president bush's choice and yesterday jeb bush was forced to confront his brother's appointments as the t. >> well, the souter choice was unfortunate. he wandered off into the liberal camp for sure. john roberts i think can be a defended choice for sure. the obamacare decision i was disappointed in but he's made really good rulings beyond that here's the deal. the lesson learned is you pick someone with a proven long-standing record, a history that you can point to. when he wasn't considered -- or she wasn't being considered a nomination in the supreme court. >> so, sam, the battle began
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immediately after scalia -- >> five minutes. five minutes. >> i would usually be offended by such things but it was so obviously a titanic event in american politics that you couldn't be shocked saying oh, we must mourn for two or three days, i expected it immediately and you know what? justice scalia would have expected it immediately, too, because so many cases hang in the balance, 5-4. "heller" is just one of them. the gun case. >> it does raise a question about the structure of our lifetime appointments to the supreme court. maybe it will spark a conversation about judicial term limits. >> you and dr. ben car jon? ben carson does agree with that. rand i believe agreed that, too but it was instantaneous. what would surprise me i thought was that republicans in the senate sid don't even bother nominating. i thought it would have been a more clever move on their part to play it coy to let him
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nominate someone, act like you're considering it but secretly say i'm never going to pass this person, they were clear, don't bother. >> they were clear and the timing i thought, kristen, as a republican, i thought the timing was bad. we have a clip we'll play of chuck schumer where chuck was shocked, shocked, shocked but said the same thing in 2007 but i was wondering why they didn't just hold their fire and say, well, let's just see what happens. instead of saying immediately no matter who you send up -- >> i think it has to do with the shoes being filled. think about the last four say are can s-- vacancies. during george w. bush's presidency, the two vacancies were held by conservativish jurists so having george w. bush replacing the seat, made sense. during president obama's term the two seats that have come open were republican appointees who consistently voted with the
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liberal wing of the court so president obama filling that seat makes sense. in this case, because justice scalia is such a conservative stalwart or was such a conservative stalwart, the idea that president obama would nominate anyone who could effectively fill that seat and keep a balanced court is, i think, part of the reason why -- >> balanced? you're saying you want a 5-4 balance in terms of conservatives on the court then? >> oh, please. >> no, that's the point she's say, right? >> no, i'm talking about the american people. in september gallup asked american, and this is after all of the summer's supreme court rulings, including the one on gay marriage and they asked america, do you think the court is too conservative, too liberal or about right? a plurality said it's about right. only 20% said they thought the court was too conservative. 37% thought it was too liberal. nobody's clamoring to make the court more liberal except perhaps the 20% of americans. >> look at the decisions, the big decisions, jon meacham, with this republican court, they have upheld the affordable care act,
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obamacare and has actually said there's a constitutional right for same-sex marriage and this historically for people that don't understand why this is going to be such a big issue for republicans especially, go back if you will and alex has said helpfully in my ear since it's president's day perhaps you could pull out a polk reference. [ laughter ] but go down the laundry list as a conservative and for somebody that actually -- and i always surprise -- i surprise myself when i go in and vote, i never actually know which way i'm going go. and i surprise myself that i go one way or the other as aggressively as i do. but i'm surprised when there's a vacancy for me as a conservative, this ranks up there as one of the most important issues for me in selecting a president. talk about the historical context, why conservatives like
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myself would shudder every time, what did ike say was his biggest mistake ever? earl warren. and a close runner-up for conservatives would be brennan who was a great liberal lion. and you could go through harry blackman another republican appointee who authored roe v. wade. you could go to souter who, yeah, jeb bush right, he wandered off. he wandered off badly for conservatives and you can go all the way through and a lot of conservatives see john roberts as betraying them on obviously the affordable care act. >> well, one thing as marco rubio might say, one fiction fwwe should dispense with is the idea that the court shouldn't be politicized. it was a federalist stronghold.
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thomas jefferson as president tried to impeach samuel chase, a federalist justice, he failed. it's been -- i can't quite get to polk but the 1840s there was some moving around. and one of the greatest american politicians was john marshall whose political and judicial skill made the court really into its -- gave it its role in our national life. shoot forward to the 20th century, you had the impeach earl warren signs in the south. you had gerald ford leading a march against william douglas. gerald ford is the embodiment of a lost washington yet even he took some shots at the supreme court politically. the last election year nominee we had, anthony kennedy, was only an election year nominee because of the way senate or kennedy led the charge against robert bourque.
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bourque failed and remember the kennedy speech which was really kind of a cultural war hiroshima -- >> it was unbelievable. >> robert bourque's america is segregated lunch counters. >> back alley abortion. it was -- and i say this with all due respect, it was horrible. it was a -- that was a horrible moment. explain how that moment -- i've always believed this but people might believe you if you say it, i think that speech was fairly destruct i destructive to this entire process. >> there were two moments in that era, one was the rise of gingrich on the right this which he was rising as george h.w. bush becomes president, george h.w. bush is the last eisenhower republican and he has this culture on the right -- reflectionive culture on the right taking shape but the kennedy speech against bourque was a similar kind of moment on
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the left and i think if you want to trace -- we can always trace these things to different moments but in the late 1980s, in the twilight of the reagan years, i do think you have the origins of certainly a defensible argument that the origins of what we're living with came from the rhetoric of the bourque nomination. >> it was unfortunately -- to borrow a phrase that scalia borrowed from breyer, if people want to know why they have nominees now to the supreme court, appointees to the supreme court that go before the senate and speak in terms that would be described as apple sauce, it's because of what happened during the bourque hearings which i still will say, absolutely shame it feel way robert bourque was treated. senator chuck schumer went on television yesterday and i want
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to play this and when i play this i'm not just knocking chuck schumer who i consider to be a good guy and a friend. but the republican responses to what chuck schumer said back in 2007 just as horrifying, horrified as what democrats are now saying. but this is chuck schumer yesterday calling for a confirmation vote on president obama's nomination. >> the constitution, ted cruz holds the constitution now when he walks through the halls of congress, let him show me the clause that says the president is only president for three years. our job is to go fortowaward wi the process. >> ted cruz won't be able to show him that but he should show him a july, 2007, interview, more than 17 months before george w. bush's presidency was going to come to an end where he said this "we should reverse the presumption of confirmation, the supreme court is dangerously out of balance, we can not afford to
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see justice stevens replaced by another roberts or justice ginsburg by another alito. given the track record of this president and the experience of on o f obfuscations, i would recommend to my colleagues we should not confirm a supreme court nominee except in extraordinary circumstances. that was with 17 months to go. mike barnicle, republicans at the time were shocked, shocked, shocked that anybody would be so derelict in their duty as the united states senator to do their constitutional duty to confirm a president's nominee to the court. >> it's just one more example of the accelerated partisanship in the senate and in washington, d.c. if particular over the last 10 or 15 years. but i have to tell you, joe, that i was more than mildly surprised that mitch mcconnell within 15 minutes after the announcement of the passing of justice scalia when he says "the
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american people should have a voice in the selection of the next supreme court justice." the lack of respect for the presidency. take president obama out of it because you can make the same argument against shum we are regard to president obama. but the lack of respect for the presidency involved in a statement like that. barack obama was elected twice by the people, the people that mitch mcconnell invoked as ought to have a voice. >> you know, sam stein, speaking of the president, i thought the president's words on saturday night were really moving and i really appreciated it. some people say he politicized it. he didn't. he tipped his hat to a great conservative justice who i'm sure he disagreed with on just about every important issue. it was very respectful and it meant a lot to me as a conservative. >> if we just step back and call it like it is, both sides are completely hypocritical. we know, and if the situation were reversed, let's say it was mitt romney who won in 2012 and
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this was his third year going into reelection, there's no doubt in my mind that democrats would be saying, whoa, whoa, don't nominate someone yet, let's wait. that being said, chuck schumer's position in that quote was presumption of confirmation which is different, fundamentally, than what mitch mcconnell said yesterday. mitch mcconnell said don't even bother with a nomination. that's a step further. >> this is what you were going to before when you said you were surprised it came out so quickly. chuck schumer would have ended up in the same place but at least saying we're very concerned with the judges, with the president's judicial nominees, he's moved the court too far left, if he wants to come forward with a consensus candidate, fine but we won't put a left wing extremist on the court. >> but i also think we need to recognize the practical impacts of having a court vacancy for what will be 340 days. that's a very long time with some high-profile decisions to be decided. >> i think -- and jon meacham
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can confirm this later -- the longest was 14 months, president tyler's. >> jon is looking that up right now. >> he doesn't need to look it up. it's in his head right now. >> isn't it also to some extent a reflection of the last few years in this presidency and just how hamstrung president obama has been in getting things done which makes voters realize that actually the choice of a supreme court justice is one of the few remaining big things, the nomination, the that a president can do because, frankly, there's not a lot else that a president with a divided -- >> but he may not be able to do it. >> no, but he can nominate somebody to the supreme court and that's the huge -- that's what people are voting on. >> ronald reagan's choice of justice scalia was on the court for a quarter century after ronald reagan left the white house and went back to california, which is why this is so important and i do agree with ted cruz on this point, it's
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critical that -- whether you're liberal or conservative, judicial activist, this is a critical decision. >> this is why you saw the timing for mitch mcconnell that you did. agree or disagree, he knows this is an issue is so important to conservatives, to grass-roots conservatives that if he took 16 minutes instead of 15 minutes his office was going to get flooded with calls, fund-raising e-mails were going to go out, tell mitch mcconnell to hold firm, he has the majority for a reason. he knows if he doesn't do this immediately he'll be dealing with a maelstrom from the grass-roots. >> and that where's -- well, we'll talk about it later, i't would have been nice if he could have waited a weekend. still ahead on "morning joe," we have a lot to talk about. we haven't even talked about saturday night's debate. wow. as a republican all i can say is "good god." it was unbelievable. plus, jeb bush joins us as he gets set to campaign with his brother, the former president later today who was front and center, and senator lindsey
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graham will be with us just ahead of the south carolina primary that until last cycle was one of the best indicators of who would go on to be the republican nominee. i would argue after the last cycle may predict who will win there and perhaps be the next republican nominee. we shall see. also talk to lindsey about his thoughts on justice scalia's passing and what the republican senate should do. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you've finally earned enough reward miles on your airline credit card. now you just book a seat, right? not quite. sometimes those seats are out of reach, costing an outrageous number of miles. it's time to switch... to the capital one venture card. with venture, you'll earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. and when you're ready to travel, just book the flight you want, on any airline and use your miles to cover the cost. now that's more like it. what's in your wallet?
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>> this is the ninth or tenth debate, what i've been watching here, these back and forth, some of the attacks are personal, we're fixing to lose the election to hillary clinton if we don't stop this. [ cheers and applause ] i mean, the fact is, you know what i would snuuggest? let's take the negative ads and comments down from television and let's talks about what we're for and sell that and the republican party will be stronger as a result. >> i tell you what, that was a horrible debate. i know it was like the most watched but not only what was going on on stage, i'm sorry,
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the crowd? it was offensive. >> awful. >> it was offensive. halfway -- >> i loved it. [ laughter ] >> of course you would. >> it was so predictable. >> it was so offensive. they would have candidates getting halfway through their answers and they would star booing. >> i don't know why cbs didn't say "we don't want a reaction from the crowd." i guess they haven't done that for a while. >> do it afterwards but the crowd was the star of that debate and it amped everything up and i don't understand. and i think the republican debate four years ago -- >> i think it was in south carolina. >> it might have been. but the guy was cheering and booing, they were booing people on youtube videos. >> oh, the gay soldier. yeah, yeah, yeah. >> i don't understand why do they -- it was horrible. >> it made me feel like i was watching a professional wrestling match.
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and you know. you know, there are differences between donald trump and ted cruz, differences between ted cruz and marco rubio, differences between donald trump and jeb bush, we need to tease that out, it's not that they shouldn't be engaged in hand-to-hand conflict or hand-to-hand combat on stage but something about the audience gave it more of a feel of watching a professional wrestling match. >> jon meacham, it was deplorable, wasn't it? >> it was distracting and -- >> no, i think -- i'm saying deplorable. >> also, and i wonder if ultimately this will play into the trump narrative. >> of course. >> and the fact that they were so anti-trump and he would get one or two words out and they'd be on him. i think -- >> katty kay, matthew dowd said
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this yesterday best that anybody that thinks booing donald trump if you're the republican establishment, anybody who thinks that hurts donald trump, you've not been watching if the past year. that's another thing that bothered me about the booing, i thought what idiots, they are playing into his hands. everybody knows it's the rich donors that get the tickets. it was all the rich donors that were booing and i just thought all you're doing is helping this guy that you want to beat. >> and he played it brilliantly during the course of the debate. kept referring to the people of the crowd that were booing, the lobbyists and funders that were booing. he's doing well at the moment. >> one of the most surprising things was this was one of the first times that donald trump sort of let drop this veil that, you know, he's not a good republican. he's not toeing the line on well george w. bush was a great president around we should defund planned parenthood. this was one of the first times he let the veil drop which is a
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criticism his opponents have had but i don't think it will matter. because donald trump appeals to republicans who don't like the republican party. >> and this is the thing -- and this is the biggest -- i don't want to say it this early. this was the biggest scar torn open during this debate, the presumption that republicans are going to line up behind george w. bush but a cbs poll taken afterwards which shocked me cede he did very well. but they played right into his hands. they made it look like a gladiator match. >> and he was the victim. >> who's going to win that, ben carson? jeb bush? what jeb bush wants is silence so you can have a long, thoughtful policy debate. instead, the people who thought they were helping jeb bush are hurting him by turning it into a
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cage match. >> let's get the numbers now. just in south carolina, in an online poll taken before saturday's debate donald trump was far and away at the head of south carolina republican race at 42% in cbs/yougov survey gave him a 22% lead over ted cruz. marco rubio is at 15%. kasich is at 9%. jeb bush and ben carson are tied at six points each. immediately following saturday night's debate, cbs news conducted an online poll and found 32% thought marco rubio won, donald trump was in second, he's at 24% there, john kasich also received high marks, he was at 19%. ted cruz at 12%. jeb bush as you were saying just now, joe, last 5%. as for the debate, it was littered with tense moments, we'll talk about those throughout, like this exchange between trump and jeb bush when the businessman was asked about his 2008 comments saying
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impeaching president george w. bush would be a wonderful thing. >> obviously the war in iraq was a big, fat mistake, all right? now you can take it any way you want, and it took jeb bush, if you remember at the beginning of his announcement when he announced for president, it took him five days, he went back it was a mistake, it wasn't a mistake. george bush made a mistake. we can make mistakes but that one was a beauty. we should have never been in iraq. we have destabilized the middle east. >> but so -- you still think he should be impeached. >> you do whatever you want. you call it whatever you want. i want to tell you, they lied. they said there were weapons of mass destruction, there were none and they knew there were none. there were no weapons of mass destruction. [ boos ] >> i'm sick and tired of barack obama blaming my brother for all of the problems he that he's had. [ cheers and applause ] and, frankly, i could care less about the insults that donald
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trump gives to me. it's blood sport for him, he enjoys it. >> he spent $22 million. >> but i'm sick and tired of him going after my family. my dad is the greatest man alive, in my mind. [ cheers and applause ] and while donald trump was building a reality tv show my brother was building a security apparatus to keep us safe and i'm proud of what he did. >> the world trade center came down during your brother's re , reign, remember that. [ boos ] >> he had the gal to go after my mother. i won the lottery when i was born 63 years ago and saw my mom. my mom is the strongest woman i know. >> she should be running. >> i have to read this quote. i e-mailed madea benjamin, the co-founder of the anti-war group code pink. i e-mailed her for her reaction. she writes me "honestly, on this issue, trump has gone farther than even bernie sanders. it was great."
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that is remarkable for the leading republican candidate -- >> you realize you just got yourself into an ad, right? >> that's what i'm hoping for. i want to clicks. >> katty, it was shocking, it was shocking. >> i don't think it's going to cost him. >> that's the question. >> if you look at the reaction which, i've got to say, i thought it was going to blow up against him is but if you look at the reaction, it hasn't and what it suggests is the republicans don't want to fight the iraq war question because i think most of them quietly think that they got it wrong. >> yeah, i think a lot of republicans agree, and we know now that from the polling on the iraq war more recently that a majority think it was a mistake but also that the reverence is just not there for the bush family name, even in south carolina. for george w. bush it's and i think that's -- >> he's got very high approval ratings in south carolina. >> but you saw how the iraq war complicated jeb.
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he spent five days trying to figure out what to say about the desoicision to invade iraq. >> the establishment republicans thought finally trump has gone too far. you cannot call for the impeachment of a republican president. but we didn't see that in the numbers. >> i'm not the republican establishment, i have been been wha wailing against the republican establishment, but i think trump went too far. talking about 9/11. i was thinking this is ron paul territory we're entering into and, again -- >> but the numbers are holding up for him. either he's teflon and people don't care or he is tapping into something that is there which is a profound dissatisfaction. >> the republican base feels like they have been lied to by republican leaders in washington for 30 years. and it's just hard for jeb, as unfair as i personally think it is, it's hard for jeb to
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disconnect himself from that. >> and they put president bush into that category of people that lied to them. still ahead, we'll dig into maureen dowd's scathing piece in the "new york times," it was unbelievable. when hillary clinton killed feminism. that's just a little tease. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (cafeteria noise) ♪ ♪ (flourish spray noise) ♪ ♪ (flourish spray noises) ♪ (school bell) ♪ ♪ (sigh) ♪ (flourish spray noise) ♪ share the joy of real cream... share the joy of real cream... (flourish spray noise) ...with reddi-wip. ♪
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donald trump: "pedonald trump..." look past the boasting and you'll see right through him. he supported partial-birth abortions. his phony trump university? accused of fraud. he tried to seize private property to line his own pockets. four bankruptcies... and small businesses screwed over. poll after poll shows him losing... to hillary clinton. if trump wins, conservatives lose. right to rise usa is responsible for the content of this message. ♪ [car driving] ♪ [engine revving] ♪ ♪ [car engine] [car speeding away] [car engine]
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>> during the democratic debate, hillary clinton attacked bernie sanders, saying he needs to be more honest with voters about
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the difficulty of accomplishing many of his proposals. while clinton's critics say she has to be honest with voters about -- ♪ ♪ [ laughter ] -- all that stuff and then -- ♪ >> oh, there's more. wow, okay. got to be honest about that stuff. >> oh, my lord. you know, yes, maureen dowd, i mean, you're not shocked she wrote this column -- this one -- >> this one. >> this one melts down to the core the problems with why hillary clinton's losing the young vote by 70%. >> trumpian in its tone. up next, we have the "new york times" frank who joins us for the must-read opinion pages, we shall return. hey, you forgot the milk!
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columnist for the "new york times," frank bruni. frank, you started talking about being offended by madeleine albright's -- >> special place in hell. >> which her defense was "i've been saying it for a while." so that makes it okay if it's the hundredth time you said it and people just took note. it's offensive to suggest that because you block where n an identity subgroup you're supposed to vote for that group. by that thinking all women should have voted for the mccain palin ticket because that was a woman. >> gail collins came out in defense of madeleine albright but she came out -- >> in defense of madeleine albright. >> but also said "hey i made a mistake." >> and to be fair to madeleine albright, she originally used this phrase that she's used and i have quoted her as saying many times in the context of women in the work force helping each other. and i do think there is an onus on women in the work force to help other women and that's what
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madeleine albright had been talking about. >> and this is something mika has been talking about for a long time but we know 20 years ago when she was saying that things were far different. there always seemed to be the token woman on the board, the token woman here. it's not that way 20 years later. >> that's why you don't see the support the clinton campaign would like to among young women for hillary. also when madeleine albright said it this time, these things happen in clusters, she said it around the same time bill clinton was alleging sexisim in the sanders campaign, around the same time hillary comes out in a debate and says "i can't be a member of the establishment, i'm a woman." and gloria steinem saying that women are only voting forre sanders because they want to be around boyce. so this message came out that if you're a woman, you need to fall in line. >> they need to stay away from this issue. when hillary clinton accused donald trump of sexism he fired back an instagram that still has
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the campaign back on their heels a month later. >> he's scarily brilliant at that that sort of stuff. >> scarily. >> so speaking of scarily brilliant, let's go to pulitzer prize winning columnist in maureen dowd. >> so frank set maureen up, but here's what she's writing. "when hillary clinton killed feminism" is the title. "instead of just admitting he had an affair with monica lewinsky and taking his lumps, bill lied and hid behind the skirts of his wife and female cabinet members. seeing madeleine albright, the first female secretary of state, give cover to president clinton, was a low point in women's rights as was the "new york times'" op-ed by gloria stein them arguing lewinsky's will was not violated. hillary knew she could count on the complicity of feminist leaders who liked bill's progressive policies on women and that's always the ugly
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faustian bargain with the clintons. you can have our bright public service side as long as you accept our dark sketchy side. young women today, though, are playing by a different set of rules and they don't like the clintons setting themselves above the rules." >> i'll say again, this is something mika has been saying here for six month, saying young women are not going to buy into this. because of what happened in the late 1990s. >> it's a big part of it. but they're also in a different world than we were in 20 years ago. they don't see the sorts of krielings that hillary's always talking about. so -- they don't have the same sort of historical perspective about what it means to have a woman running for president. >> a lot has changed in this area in eight years. it really has. katty you said this is almost shakespearean because -- and i was thinking about how what happened in the '90s where they made these moves to cover themselves now being revealed in
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the "new york times" and hurting their campaign almost 20 years later. >> this is the fantastic thing about this election campaign, right? whether it's with the bush family, donald trump or the clintons, the deals people made have come back to haunt them. and this is one of those. i think the issue particularly with the sexual assault side of this and the monica lewinsky side is that young women today do not tolerate coverup of sexual assault. after all we've had on college campuses in the way perhaps that we did in the 1990s. look, bill clinton came out of the jfk era where it was totally accepted that he could have as many affairs as he wanted. we've changed. >> with teenaged girls. >> it changed when it gulf of mexico -- kate to bill clinton and it's changed again. and if we're going to stand up for the rights of young women and empower them to say this is not okay, we have to point out what happened back in the 1990s. >> and sam stein. you were just saying that you were younger when this happened but as you got older -- and this
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is what i was thinking, too. you've started to focus on -- and maureen talks about this, the disparity in power between the most powerful men in the world and a 22-year-old internal which, again, i'm not bringing this up to refight anything, i'm bringing this up as maureen does because it might explain why young voters don't like being told they're going to go to hell if they don't vote for hillary clinton who they don't see as the champion of feminism. >> i think for me, at least, i started -- and i assume this is for a lot of other people, too. i started really understanding the workplace dynamics elements of what happened here. you start hearing about how these types of things happen in workplaces where a boss can use his position of authority as a way to make a sexual advance and you look at the clinton case through that lens and it's an educational thing for me. i will say, having talked to a lot of women in new hampshire, older women and younger women, you get the generational divide. a lot of older women -- it's not resentment, but they feel like
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younger women should understand that some of the opportunities that were afforded to them now were not there for them 20, 30 years ago. and i would like to make one last point because i don't think we're presuming that feminism has hit the peak, but there are -- >> you're going to need -- as a feminist you have to make this quickly. >> there are still real hurdles that hillary clinton faces as a female candidate. >> sure. >> she is told she is yelling sometimes when a male candidate would be complimented for that. the other day she wore a yellow jacket that someone pointed out she wore earlier. men politicians wear the same suits all the time. >> can i just say this, though, mike barnicle can attest to this, this is the first time i've worn this sweater. i've never worn this sweater before. there are so many other lines in here where hillary -- maureen is talking about how hillary talks about "i've been abused and misunderstood, i have scars to show for it." she says "it's a victim mind-set that's exhausting, especially because the clintons' messes are of their own makings." mike? >> well, you know, joe, a couple
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of things. hillary clinton first came on the national scene in 1992 when her husband was running for president for the first time. a huge percentage of the audience, the female audience she is aiming at weren't even born then, in 1992. and the other thing is, younger women today have grown up and are accustomed to, thankfully, for throwing their elbows in the workplace and for making sure that they carve out an equitable position for themselves on their own. and the victimization aspect that hillary clinton always speaks to, while legitimate in some sense, goes right over their heads, which leads to her biggest issue, connectivity. not only with young women voters but with voters at large. >> and how fascinating, frank bruni, quickly, that echos of iraq may be hunting jeb bush and echoes of monica lewinsky haunting hillary clinton. >> well, as katty said, the past is coming back if fascinating ways in this campaign. >> frank, thank you for being with us. we greatly appreciate it.
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and for starting this fight. [ laughter ] >> yeah, frank. coming up, presidential candidate jeb bush is going to be our guest. also senator lindsey graham. you're watching "morning joe." we broabout this new car. to get your honest opinion to keep things unbiased, we removed all the logos. feels like a bmw. reminds me a little bit of like an audi. so, this car supports apple carplay. siri, open maps. she gets me. wow. it also has teen driver technology. it even mutes the radio until the seat belts are buckled. i'm very curious what it is. this is the 2016 chevy malibu.
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you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. coming up at the top of the hour, what hillary clinton and bonnie raitt have in common. also ahead, the author of the authoritative biography on justice scalia joins us. he once told her after decisions
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rolling back sentencing guidelines "it's not because i'm in love with the jury, necessarily, i'm in love with the constitution." plus this. >> and justice scalia's passing, i think, really changes the entire contours of this race, the time for the circus and the reality show is over. this is a serious choice and we are talking about losing our basic liberties if we get this wrong. >> the reality show? i'm confused. is he talking about anybody in particular? >> ben carson? i don't know, maybe. >> it didn't take long for candidates to actually talk about justice scalia's death as an important issue moving forward. we'll be talking about those new contours of the republican race and a debate we're still trying to figure out, next. connected. right now at at&t, buy one get one free on our most popular smartphones. no matter how you hang out, share every minute of it.
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>> hillary is the most qualified candidate in history but at the same time, eh? >> i mean, hillary has every single thing i want in a president but -- >> she's no bernie! ♪ turn down the lights, turn down the bed ♪ turn down these voices inside ♪ my head >> i mean, i like hillary's foreign policy experience, but i love bernie's whole vibe. >> i'm obsessed with his vibe. ♪ because i can't make you love me if you don't ♪ >> did anybody else just get so cold for a minute? [ laughter ] >> i felt cold but safe.
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hillary's just too establish. >> yeah, and bernie's an outsider who's only been in congress for, like 30, years. >> yeah, he's the best. ♪ i can't make you love me if you don't ♪ [ cheers and applause ] ♪ you can't make your heart feel something it won't ♪ >> like her for my psych. >> later he goes "i'm not even playing this." welcome back to "morning joe." we have washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay, chief legal correspondent ari melber, republican columnist in for the washington examiner kristen soltis anderson and also pulitzer prize winning historian jon meacham. jon, this is one of those weekends, you know when it's happening where events turn very quickly and for us this weekend it was saturday night that will no doubt -- i mean, i remember when, you know, bourque was
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nominated, scalia, rehnquist, all these people. you just -- this was just one of those weekends that it's going to impact politics in washington for a very long time. >> the death of justice scalia would have been an emotional moment for a lot of people in any event to come on the day of a gp debate when you have so much at stake with the senate as divided as it is, it's a remarkable confluence of events that i do think -- and this is by now a cliche -- but cliches are cliches because they're often true -- i think it's a reminder that this is not just a reality show. the president of the united states has important things to do and not just perform. >> kristen, the second most irritating thing for a republican growing up -- well, the first is court justices appointed by republicans who grow in office. that was the number one irritating thing growing up but
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the second most irritating thing growing up was having to hear that the republican party is at war with itself, it's a civil war, the media always love to say that. let us say this morning, the republican party is at war with itself. that debate was ugly and it seems like the curtain is torn right down the middle there are divisions within the party simmering at the surface. debates that never should have been had, like should we be in the business of trying to address situations where countries are being led by bad guys. these are debates we have not had in the open n n a robust way, to what extent were republicans or democrats or what was responsible for the financial crisis? this was never a debate republicans tried to resolve in the 2012 election so now it's donald trump coming out and
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saying things and everybody's saying "you're a republican, you can't say that." forgetting there are large swaths of the republican party that are frustrated with the republican part yy. >> mike barnicle, anybody that needs evidence that the base is angry at washington, d.c., i thought after the 9/11 comments and many other comments that there was going to be a revolt against donald trump that night and the next morning but we haven't seen any indication of that and it just shows that if you're marco rubio and you ere on the side of being robotic or nervous, that's a sin. in 2016 going other way is not a sin. this isn't about ideology, it's
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all about, i guess, strength, like bill clinton said better to be stronger and wrong than right and weak. >> i would imagine that the other candidates on that stage after that debate last saturday night and up until and including this morning are looking at donald trump asking if it's possible he can say anything, including putting september 11 on president george w. bush and nothing happens to him. there's no negative. so you've got that. the other altering -- i mean really life altering event in the campaign happened saturday when justice scalia died and i think you'll see more emphasis, especially on the republican side of the aisle, on emphasizing the fear aspect in the course of the campaign. ted cruz, we just played the crip before we broke at the top of the hour, we are talking about losing our basic liberties
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if we get it wrong, ted cruz talking about the potential selection of the next supreme court justice. so you've got fear of what's going to happen in the court, already the injection of fear with regard to the obama administration taking care of the security of this country. you've got fear of obamacare itself. it's fear, fear, fear that most of the candidates are talking about. >> and katty, you look at, as jon meacham said, you look at the fact that justice scalia influenced events for 27 years after ronald reagan left office and suddenly you realize that, yeah, it's grown-up time this is -- who is elected president of the united states is not only going to matter over the next eight years, chances are good it will matter over the next 30 years. >> the stakes are huge and one of the remaining things a president can do is nominate a supreme court justice and what happened on saturday is a reminder of that.
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the body of justice antonin scalia is returning to virginia. a plane carrying him landed at dulles international airport. the influential conservative jurist was discovered dead over the weekend while on a retreat in west texas with about 30 other people. he would have 80 next month. reaction has poured in from all around the world, including from his fellow justices. though they were far apart ideologically, scalia and ruth bader ginsburg were closest on the bench. she said in a statement they had been best buddies since their days on the d.c. circuit court and she recalled the opera that had been named for them writing "toward the end of the opera, tenor scalia and soprano ginsburg sing a duet, we are different, we are one, different in our interpretation, one in our reverence for the constitution and the institution we serve." here they are in a joint interview in 2014. >> are you two ever going to agree on big issues and still maintain the friendship.
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>> we agree on a whole lot of stuff. ruth is really bad only on the knee-jerk stuff. [ laughter ] jess she's a good textualist. where the text is what she's guided by she's terrific. she's obviously very smart and most cases, i think, we're together. >> the old couple. >> that's exactly what she said, too. it's very funny that she said, you know, we disagreed on occasion and they did on occasion but they agreed on a lo lot. >> and they respected each other. that is huge. let's bring in from washington, professor of law at george washington university jonathan turley and editor in charge of legal affairs for reuters news, the author of american original, the life and the constitution of supreme court justice antonin scalia. >> jonathan turley, in the
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passing of justice scan ya, are we seeing the end of an era where justices actually when they're going before the senate judiciary committee to be approved actually speak their mind? >> the irony is the so-called ginsburg rule really allows nominees to refuse to answer question because the answers might affect cases that come before them. since this is a discretionary court, almost anything can come before them so the ginsburg rule has been used to turn these confirmation hearings into a pathetic exercise. >> apple sauce, as justice scalia would say. >> that's right. and even people as talented as john roberts relied on that trend. relied on that approach to reduce these to sort of legal slurpees, there wasn't much there in terms of substance and so i think you're flight that sense. scalia was different from a lot
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of modern nominees. he spoke his mind, he was genuine, he was authentic. you might not like his principles, but he had principles and he didn't like to compromise, he would prefer to be in dissent than to eke out a plurality by changing his principles. that is something that is not unfortunately that common anymore and i think people tended to resonate with that. lots of people demonized him, lots of people adored him. but the one thing i think we can agree on is this that this was a man of deep principles his opinions had a scope and depth that is he@a vacuum on the court. there's not really anyone on the conservative side that fulfills that role. >> and ari you touched on this saturday night when you were running coverage after the passing that his writings were so clear and bold that they didn't just aid conservatives
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but liberals were made better by viewing them. justice ginsburg said her opinions were made better by reading justice scalia's dissents. >> you're hitting on such an important point. we've heard he did not compromise and that's true, but he did engage so his dissents, which they circulate before the thing becomes final, were so fiery and direct and sometimes so pro vockive the that you could see in the footnotes judges adding their rebuttal and second rebuttal to things justice scalia said. so he wrote for the judges he was engaging and the law students and the future of the court and bar because he wanted people to consider things even in his loss. that's different than, say, a thomas who when thomas disagreed he goes his own way, sometime he is joins a scalia opinion but it didn't have those echoes. justice scalia would be not only heard which in politics matters, he would be responded to, he
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would be addressed, he could not be ignored. >> joan, you wrote the biography of antonin scalia. how did this italian american background, his father came out of sicily, how did it shape him as a justice and how did he shape the court? >> testifies the epitome of a first-generation, first italian american on the supreme court. he was an only child who loved the spotlight. he was the only offspring of his generation of big roman catholic family so everything -- all eyes were on him when he was young and then i remember back in 1986 when he first got on the court he changed the conversation not just in the nation but within the confines of the marble palace, as it's called because he talked so much and one of his colleagues whispered to another "do you think he thinks any of the rest of us are here?"
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[ laughter ] that was how justice scalia approached life and what ari was saying about how he changed how we talk about the constitution, even liberals now know they're going to have to confront the idea that someone out there is with justice scalia on the notion that the constitution should be interpreted as its 18th century framers understood it and reading statutes he was the one as i'm sure joe remembers from his time in congress he said "don't look at what congress claims to be writing here, look at what the bill itself says." and that will ensure for sure. as i say, he -- i saw him in the summer after the last term and he was very, very upset about the marriage ruling and he was upset about a lot of things because he feels so passionately about it. the liberals had a strong term at the end of june last year and he was feeling that but when i
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saw him he seemed raring to go, that's the thing about his passing, it's hard to imagine someone who always seemed to present and alive not in our world anymore. >> ari, you look at what -- he may not have known they were there but they knew he was there. you look what justice kagan said. his views on interpreting text have changed the way all of us think and talk about the law. i will always remember him, greatly miss him, his warmth, his charm, his generosity. justice breyer called justice scalia a legal titan. justice sonia sotomayor had wonderful things to say about him, too. his impact was felt not only in his writings but also just in the power of his personality that was warm and engaging and loving. >> and joan's point goes to something you mentioned here at the beginning of the segment which is do you know what you'll get from people? and justice scalia because he had a methodology, because he didn't have outcomes people may have associated with more
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conservative wing of the court but a view of how the constitution in these texts should be interpreted. that meant people knew exactly where he was going and you contrast that to some of these judicial appointments that republicans have said we don't know what we're going to get and that echos in a new face in the presidential campaign which is what kind of judges will you get from these friend candidates? i would argue that whether you like them or not you have a sense of what a cruz or clinton nominee would look like. for the republican party some of the more undefined figures like rubio or newer figures like trump it may not be as clear. it was fascinating that donald trumped named names of conservative judges but we don't know what his full record would be. for some that's a good thing, for others, to your point, when you talk about lifetime appointments and shaping the future of federal law lock after an administration comes and goes, that's a question primary voters want to know what
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methodology you bring. so scalia brought this originalism. people knew what that meant. >> especially, catty, because republicans have been burned so many times by appointees. >> which is why scalia's death has already reframed the presidential race and sent both parties digging in. president obama promised to name a replacement though the white house says it won't come this week. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says there should not be a replacement during the president's final year in office and republican presidential candidates have echoed that position with ted cruz vowing to filibuster any supreme court nominee that president obama puts forth. >> far too many republicans don't care about the court, don't invest political capital in it and it's why so many republican nominees have turned out to be disasters. and let me say something in particular to the veterans in the state of south carolina. to the veterans in south carolina, your second amendment rights are hanging in the balance. justice scalia's, one of his biggest opinions was the
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"heller" decision 5-4, upholding the right to keep and bear arms. if an additional liberal justice goes to the court, we're one justice away from the second amendment being written out and if donald trump becomes president the second amendment will be written out of the constitution because it's abundantly clear that donald trump is not a conservative, he will not invest the cap tool confirm a conservative so the result will be the same whether it's hillary, bernie, or donald trump the second amendment will go away. >> the fact is, you never know. john roberts, who was his hero, he wrote an article for the "national review" saying "i stand by this guy, he's going to be a conservativconservative's conservative." and he would point now and conservatives would point to obamacare, ignoring 99% of the other decisions were exactly what conservatives would want. >> they see that as a the big betrayal for justice roberts. professor you are thely , what happens -- turley, what happens
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now to get a new supreme court justice nominated? how does it pan out from a constitutional point of view? >> probably not well. [ laughter ] in terms of the various avenues we can go, most of them go places we probably don't want to be. obviously there is the option that president obama could nominate someone and this could be a case where he can bend it like beckham and get it through with the impossible score but i wouldn't bet on that. the republicans are likely to oppose anyone that president obama would nominate largely because if you nominate a moderate, the gravitational point of the court will move significantly to the left. you're talking about replacing a conservative icon and what most of us consider the intellectual really of the right of the court. it's unlikely that president obama is going to appoint someone -- nominate someone who will be acceptable in that sense. now, that leads to a couple places that are not great
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options. one would be you simply refuse to hear the nominee, to consider, to hold hearings. that's not necessarily where the gop wants to go because it could trigger a recess appointment by president obama. it would give him a foundation for saying well, if you won't consider a nominee, i'll use that nuclear option and go with a recess appointment. the other option is you slow walk it. the president could ultimately try to do a recess appointment. we have had long delays. the longest was 27 months. that hasn't occurred since president tyler. since we had a nine-member court. the longest delay was about 391 days. any way you go this is going to be a battle royale. >> for more information on president tyler's presidency, check more about it on our web
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site. specifically the second year of tyler's straight and what it means for you and your children today. [ laughter ] mike barnicle, what does it say about the political culture that the second he died, the second i heard the news that scalia died i, of course, mourned his death and about three seconds later i said, oh, my god, this ugly political season is about to get much buglier. >> oh, yeah. i just heard a paint echo of how ugly it will be in ted cruz's pitch to the veterans in south carolina with regard to the second amendment disappearing. but on justice scalia, as a layman, one of the things appreciated the most about justice scalia and i do not agree with more than half of the decisions that he was so influential with his is his clarity. he had the gift of clarity. a gift that a lot of writers don't have. sort of like reading "wall street journal" editorials. it would force you to think about the other side and once
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you began thinking about where scalia was coming from you realize in the context of the court there's a collegiality that exists on the supreme court yon this but you sense it from watching the clips of justice ginsburg and squal thcalia that not exist any longer in tern political life and it's a sad passing of two things -- the justice as well as that sense of collegiality in politics. >> jonathan turley, thank you so much. joan, thank you, i hope you'll come back. the book is "american original, the life and constitution of supreme court justice antonin scalia." ari, thank you as well. >> thank you, joe. >> greatly appreciate you being here. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i'm sick and tired of barack obama blaming my brother for all of the problems he's had. [ cheers and applause ] and, frankly, i could care less about the insults that drurp gives to me. it's blood sport for him, he
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enjoys it. >> things are always a little nastier in south carolina but, my lord, what happened on saturday night? jeb bush is going to be with us in just a few minutes to explain. also, "wall street journal" editorial board member mary kissel joins us aftera mike barnicle name drop along with senator lindsey graham. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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jon meacham, let's talk about jeb bush. i thought jeb did very well in the debate the other night. i don't know if the people of south carolina agree with me. but there's no doubt that this week the legacy of his brother, his father, his family is going to be front and center in south carolina politics. >> i think it was his best debate by far and you're right, we'll have adjudication to some extent of whether the legacy of lee atwater in 1988 and george w. bush in 2001 transferable credit. >> all right, we shall see. katty? >> during saturday night's gop debate, donald trump claimed
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former president george w. bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in iraq. but the "wall street journal" editorial board writes that it is a lie spread by the left. joining us now is member of the "wall street journal" editorial board and host of opinion journal on "wall street journal" live, mary kissel. >> sam stein is fascinated. how is it a lie that was spread by the left? >> because effectively what donald trump said is that president bush knew there were no weapons of mass destruction in iraq and that is simply not true. that is something that moveon.org has tried to climb for, now, four years. >> actually, if you look at what the "new york times" was writing from 1998 to 2001, what the "washington post" was writing, their editorial boards, both of them, basically saying that saddam hussein was going to be one of the biggest threats to george w. bush's presidency. and that george w. bush was sworn in. >> we know presidents have to make big decisions sometimes with incomplete information but i think that the bigger issue
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here with donald trump and what he said is his temperament. two big issues with donald trump is his temperament -- >> why don't you write that to your "wall street journal" readers and see if it matters. >> his temperament and his policies. >> how frustrated are you that it doesn't seem to matter? >> well, i think it does matter. it mattered in iowa. >> he got more votes than anybody else before him. >> yes, that is true, but i think the issue -- >> come on, mary! >> let me make the argument, though. >> just admit that it's so frustrating. you are so frustrated by donald trump that he's teflon. ronald reagan is not teflon. this man went out there and talked about planned parenthood, he talked about 9/11 in ways that bernie sanders wouldn't talk about it. you look at the polls afterwards on who won the debate, it doesn't -- nothing seems to get to him. >> well, again, i don't think that's true. i think the issue is that iowa and new hampshire have not played the traditional role in winnowing down the candidates so
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off group of candidates playing survivor. there's no reason for marco rubio or jeb bush or john kasich to drop out right now and why has that happened? it's because they haven't taken on the two big issues with donald trump which is namely temperament, do you want a grew like this with his finger on the nuclear button -- >> jeb has. >> policy -- >> mary, jeb has been saying in the every debate. >> jeb has launched personal attacks. he hasn't talked about the policies. he calls him a chaos candidate. that's not talking about his ideas. the last debate was great. jeb talked about imminent domain. cruz and bush talked about foreign policy. cruz talked about trump's position on social issues. they have to do more of that if they want -- >> i have to jump in here. the issue of temperament, listen, the huffington posted a mittedly has not been the nicest publication when it comes to trump. >> no. >> the issue of temperament is an interesting one. finger on the trigger. donald trump is a committed
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isolationist, if you want to put a term on it. he doesn't want to get into wars. that's his foreign policy. >> that's not true -- >> just let me finish. can i just finish my point? he said he did not want the iraq war, he does not want to get involved in syria, he's called libya's intervention a huge mistake. compared to marco rubio and the other candidate on the stage -- >> compared to hillary clinton -- >> he said isis is issue number one. >> when we're talki temperament and finger on the triump, why should a voter care about him but not hillary clinton or marco rubio? >> i think as far as engagement goes it would be that he is more of an isolationist than the "wall street journal" editorial page would want. sam is exactly right. this ludicrous debate about what donald trump said before the iraq war, everybody writing articles about he never said that. he said something like three or four days afterwards saying the iraq war was going to be a
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terrible mistake. no other republican wiz saying that. so if you have a problem with trump, isn't it that he is not -- >> i don't have a problem with trump. we write about policies, we don't endorse candidates. >> mary, he's -- >> but do you want me to answer the question or no. >> you just talked about his temperament. >> the two big issues with trump were his temperament, which were definitely on display in south carolina, and his policies and not what they just mean for economic growth here but our security at home and those of our people at home. >> mary's talking to me and i'm smirking and i'm only smirking because we need her here in three hours. they're shouting in my ear "we have lindsay coming up, we have jeb next block." do you want to -- traffic is backed up. >> let's get back to the editorial. if you are saying this is a lie propagated by the left, are you saying donald trump is on the left? >> we've been saying that for years? >> are you saying donald trump is from the left. >> you have to look at the bigger picture. the conceit of the left is that
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isis can be contained in the middle east, that's not our issue, that is simply wrong. joining us now from clemson, south carolina, senator lindsey graham of south carolina. >> i want to get back to that. >> lindsey. -- >> good morning. [ laughter ] >> one of my favorite bill murray lines comes from "tootsie" where he says "i want people to walk out of the theater and ask "what the hell just happened? "that's how i felt seriously saturday night after it ended i was staring at my tv set in a daze going -- literally going "what is happening with my republican party?" it was an absolute brawl. >> well, it's sort of being drug to a ditch by mr. trump but -- >> he's not alone there. >> no, he's not. >> the fighting was savage on stage. >> let me just give you my take. it's not about just temperament, it's about judgment. very few south carolinians like putin and think w is a liar so that market in south carolina i
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hope is pretty small. so the bottom line is this guy embraces putin, calls george w. bush a liar and, to my friends on the left, very few people go down that road on the left and to say that w's responsible for 9/11 is crazy. so what happened in south carolina is we saw the michael moore republican candidate emerge who is basically embracing nut job views toward the world and i hope this will take a toll over time because we can not win the white house with somebody who believes that george w. bush intentionally lied to the american people and that he was responsible for 9/11 on top of all the other things he said. >> so we will put you down as undecided on trump. [ laughter ] and trump is undecided on you as well. >> i don't think so. [ laughter ] >> but queyou told me at the ke forum in south carolina you told me that regardless of his issues donald trump knows -- has a gut
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instinct for politics unlike you've seen. he knows how to control a news cycle. >> until saturday night because he's got a big lead. so why would you what he did? he got mad. he can't stand being booed. jeb is finally under his skin. jeb is the only guy that's been challenging this gibberish consistently and saturday he got under his skin because a controlled candidate who is smart and savvy would not have suggested that george w. bush lied to the american people about the iraq war and is responsible for 9/11. that's when he came unravel sod i think this is differentn what that you've seen in the past. >> we have jeb coming up in one minute. cruz and rubio, that was another fight. they were pointing fingers at each other, two senators calling each other liars. so you're in the senate, you served with both of these gentlemen. which one is lying about their role in immigration? i'm serious. >> that's why i love politics. you, with really hard to get in
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the senate and you get to answer questions like this. the bottom line is ted cruz is misleading the public about his stance on immigration. i sat by the guy for four days. that is my time in gitmo during the immigration hearings. [ laughter ] and the markup. and he had an amendment that would give legal status, he preached to anybody that would listen, citizenship is too far, adopt my amendment for legal status after you pass a background check -- >> what about marco? is marco telling the truth about immigration? >> marco stuck to the bill but here's what marco is doing. he's putting forth a concept that will never work. i will only deal with 11 million after we secure the border, we get e verify and everything republicans want. he is using the talk radio line to justify not dealing with the 11 million. i like marco a lot but marco we're not going to get everything we want as republicans on border security, controlling who gets a job and legal immigration until the democrats know what will happen to the 11 million. the idea of we get everything
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then we'll talk to them about what they want won't work. >> all right, lindsey graham thank you so much. mary kissel is agreeing with you and she doesn't agree with anybody. mary, thank you, we need you for three hours. >> are you going to let me talk next time? >> oh! >> whoa! >> i love your condescending "you guys." "you guys don't understand." stay, if you can. i want to keep you. coming up, his father won south carolina. jeb bush is about to find out how much political currency he holds after the debate. it's fascinating. i can't wait to get jeb's take on what happened. we'll be right back. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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it's the victory of a message that is compassionate and conservative. [ cheers and applause ] and it's the victory of a messenger who is a reformer with results. >> that was george w. bush on the eve of his south carolina primary win. he steps back into the campaign trail for the first time in quite a while, starting today. with us now, we have republican presidential candidate and former governor of florida jeb bush. jeb, i asked lindsey, i'll ask you, what exactly happened on saturday night and why shouldn't republicans be discouraged at how ugly that debate was? >> well, it was -- it was ugly, i guess. part of it was related to the need to make sure people knew that donald trump is not a
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conservative and he got angry and, you know, kind of lost it a little bit. i can't describe it. i went and shook hands with everybody at he saw me coming to do it and he walked away so he may be still angry about it but, look, this is a tough process. i'm going to stuck to my guns about why we need someone with a steady hand, someone who has a proven record and someone who has detailed plans to fix the mess in washington and donald trump is donald trump, what can i tell you? there's nobody like him i've ever seen. >> let me ask you, this was another battle that i thought was equally fascinating as the one between you and donald trump and that was marco rubio and ted cruz both pointing fingers and calling each other liars on immigration. who's telling the truth there? >> well, i think it's pretty clear if you saw the debate before, there was videos pointing out the fact that ted cruz did support a path to legal
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status for undocumented folks. that's my position, by the way, and he's abandoned that. and marco rubio was a sponsor of the bill and he abandoned that so maybe they're both right. >> why did they -- that that's a wonderful way of saying two people are lying. why have they changed their positions and have you changed your position on immigration? because marco would say you changed your position. >> no. i supported him when he said will you support this bill? my position has been clear, i wrote a book about it four years ago. we need to have a path to earned legal status where over an extended period of time people pay a fine, come out from the shadows, work, don't see federal government assistance, learn english, don't commit crimes and earn a path to legal status, not citizenship, that's my view, i've stuck with it for a long whil while. >> and i don't want to make this all about immigration but it's
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impossible to deport 11, 12, 13 million people, is it not? >> it's totally impossible. at the debate, ted cruz was asked about the dream act kids, are you going to deport them knowing that we know where they are now based on that registration process and he didn't answer it because it's a tough question. are you just going to round people up and send them out? the costs are extraordinary. it's not a practical view. certainly donald trump believes you can do it but he's not a serious -- not offering a serious alternative on how to do it, he's just saying we'll do it because i'm big and strong. saturday didn't look is strong to me. >> governor bush, you said we don't need a reality show candidate and i confess that after the paris attacks i assumed that voters would want a candidate with a steady hand, that they would sort of move away from perhaps a donald trump and move toward more establishment candidates but quite the opposite happened in the polls. what's your argument to voters who say they're less concerned
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with perhaps a steady hand or someone who is -- takes a calm approach and they want someone who just projects strength and is going to be a fighter for american interests. >> look, you can be strong and steady and fight for american interests, that's the only way you can do it, to propose things that are preposterous isn't the way to show strength. for example, banning all muslims, that goes to the gut of people's anger that we're not controlling the border. i get that. but if we banned all muslims we would make it impossible to destroy isis. i can't change who i am. i'm not going to play the game and lose my integrity. if mr. trump doesn't know the impact that would have on trying to recruit the kurds and the sunni arab countries and the sunni army that we need to build in syria, then he needs to learn because we're living in dangerous times. these threats are real and we're going to be under attack and we need someone who understands that. >> governor bush, it's katty kay here, i wanted to ask you about the supreme court. who would you trust more to
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nominate the next -- an acceptable supreme court justice after the passing of antonin scalia, barack obama or a potential president donald trump? >> i actually think i'm a better choice than those two. [ laughter ] >> that's all you're going to get. you can ask it again, but that's all you'll get. >> that's why i wake up early in the morning, stay up late at night campaigning. of course i believe i'm the right person and i've done it as governor of the state of florida. my record is pretty clear, consistent conservative view about who should be appointed to the courts. >> and i certainly -- not that you need me to do it, but i saw that firsthand. it was interesting, jeb, when i saw you were governor you didn't want judicial activists on the court whether they were will you be r-- liberal judicial activiss or conservative activists. you always said the same thing when our delegation came over
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for a suggestion for a nominee, you would say "i just want somebody that will read the law and interpret the law and not make the law." that doesn't happen much anymore except with people like justice scalia, what he did for so long. >> what i loved about scalia, first of all, he wrote far guy who's not a lawyer. i love reading his opinions. they were lively and he was passionate about defending liberty, which is what we need to do now. >> no doubt about it. jeb bush, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it, good luck this week. we will be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation
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he also said about language. excuse me. he said about language, my language. two days ago he said he would take his pants off and moon everybody and that's fine, nobody reports that. he gets up and says that and then he tells me, oh, my language was a little bit rough. >> okay. unbelievable but true. >> the whole thing is surreal.
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>> mooning actually came up in a presidential debate. more "morning joe" just ahead. woman: it's been a journey to get where i am. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today.
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it's unbelievable. hey, we're back now with nbc sports soccer analyst and co-host of men in blazers roger bennett. roger, what a weekend. >> super sunday. >> super sunday. >> the most unlikely underdog team in sports, tiny lester city top of the table.
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very bernie sanders-esque, they play third place arsenal and take the lead on a controversial penalty. he converts it. look at him. >> feeling gravity. >> and he finishes, look at that face. that is the face of a man whose ancestors repelled vikings. arsenal fought their way back off a tender header from jeroit. last attack of the game as rick flare said to be the man you've got to be the man. >> this is like watching arsenal kill cecil the lion. lester city are still top by two points but arsenal are menacing again.
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>> 95-15. >> help from a ref there also. >> second place dreamers playing manchester city. game that came to live in the 53rd minute. rahim sterling saying it wasn't a penalty but you're rahim sterling fans will understand that one. harry kay make -- >> he deserves it. harry cane is just extraordinary. >> they've done enough to get a point. look at this, 19-year-old -- >> boom. >> by the power of gray skull he says, look at this. really, why can't one american -- >> we just need one. >> we can't any one to run for president and make a world class footballer. christian ericsson spurs 2-1, manchester city is worse than coldplay at the halftime of the super bowl. >> nice. oh, my lord.
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>> wow. into that's cold. that is cold. let me ask you really quickly -- >> i'm sorry, america. >> let me ask you about city. why do you appoint pep for next year halfway through the campaign. >> it's going to come out in english press and they are mercibus but it has created a lame duck campaign for pellegrini. >> don't do that -- >> liverpool football club. >> 6-0 baby. they'll never walk alone. >> martin o'malley equivalent. well done. >> oh, my god, the 1% team. all right. we've got to go, but it's great seeing you. >> it's great to be on the same show with jeb bush, all the other guys. everyone in america is talking about lester city. >> we didn't ask him about that, did we? >> by the way, coldplay last week, sting at the nba halftime, you're going to have phil
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collins doing an american sporting event. i want to apologize in advance. >> i don't mind phil collins. >> sting, come on. do not talk about sting in any way that is not positive. thank you so much. you can catch men in blazers tonight and every night. get the popcorn out. 10:30 p.m. popcorn and brandy every night at 10:30 on nbc sports. up next we're remembering the life of antonin scalia as whether president obama can push a nominee through and the debate that still has us asking the question what happened. ♪ ♪ ♪
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are you two ever going to agree on big issues and still
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maintain the friendship? >> we agree on a whole lot of stuff. >> you do. >> ruth is really bad only on the knee jerk stuff. she is -- no, she's a really good textualist and in those things where the text is what she's guided by she's terrific. she's obviously very smart and most cases, i think, we're together. wow. how nice is that? that's something that you don't get enough of in washington, d.c. and i think of all the things that were made about justice scalia over the weekend, i think the most moving -- some of the most moving came from his great friend justice ruth bader ginsberg and their friendship, boy, especially after this weekend, their friendship could teach us a lot about how washington, d.c. should work. good morning, it's monday, february 15th.
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president's day. with us on set those of us that are in the president's day rotation. >> yes. >> washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay. we also have senior political editor -- i love it, senior political editor. >> what's so belong about that? >> senior political editor. >> repeat it one more time. >> white house correspondent for the hucffington post. you are not a sophomore anymore, you are a senior. >> i'm almost there. >> sam stein. we also have kristin sole sis anderso anderson. >> i want legendary. >> mike barnicle. and in nashville, tennessee, jon meach meachum. >> isn't that the one you'd like? >> i'm not going to say i need that one. >> jon meachum, before we get into the news, the sad news this
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weekend of justice scalia, i want to -- i want to key in on this friendship between scalia and ruth bader ginsburg. ruth bader ginsburg the hero actually of many people this weekend who had very nasty things to say about justice scalia right after his death and this is not a liberal/conservative thing, it's the political culture we live in. if a liberal icon passed away there would be horrible regrettable things said after the death, but their friendship was extraordinary and i loved what scalia said there. said we usually agree. you know, it's just the knee jerk things we disagree on and that's what i always told people about congress is we usually agreed, but there were some issues we disagreed on, but that's what everybody seemed to focus on because of this culture of political hatred that we live
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in now, but these two really a shining example to everybody in washington, d.c., especially those people on the debate stage the other night. >> you know, this is kind of a postcard from another era. >> yeah. >> a lot of cynical people will say that people talk about a culture of compromise and centrist culture and that that's a cop out. well, it's not really. because at our best we have had moments of consensus and personal bonds that have at different points created a warmer way to conduct our politics and i think the ginsburg/scalia relationship is in some ways emblematic of a washington that has fallen apart. do we think either one of those people because of their friendship ever compromised their deeply held principles? no. but did their friendship actually come out of a shared love of country and a love of
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the institution? yes. and i think that's something that we can all learn from. >> justice ginsburg said we were best buddies. we disagreed -- and this will be surprising to people, but we disagreed now and then, but she wrote about, mike barnicle, how she was made better -- she was made better because of justice scalia and the harsh rhetoric that would offend so many people reading the textually ruth bader ginsburg saw as a blessing because it made her focus on her weaknesses of argument and she said my opinions were always better because of his tough stinging dis sents. >> joe, it speaks as john just indicated to the deterioration of our political system, not the judicial system, we just saw that emphasized, but the political system. watching that clip i would ask you could you imagine mitch mcconnell and harry reid sitting
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down and having a similar conversation as did justice ginsburg and justice scalia. >> a postcard from a different era. you told me a great story one time about teddy kennedy, your friend and somebody went to teddy kennedy and asked for something and he said, listen, if i did that for you i would get killed, but i'm going to call my good friend or rihn and he can get it through the senate for you, but i'm going to stay away. but those two, ted kennedy and orin hatch had a wonderful friendship. no one would criticize them on compromising on their principles because they were dear friends. >> it's hard to frame it up for people who really don't dwell on it as we sometimes dwell on it, but in the space of a mere 20 years the entire system has changed and i would submit it's changed largely because the emphasis on money in the system, the emphasis on fundraising.
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so people on both sides of the aisle, democrats and republicans they just no longer have the time to get to know one another, to get to know one another's families in the district, in washington, d.c., because they're always raising money, they're always going to fundraisers, always going back to the states. >> katty kay, unfortunately it's not just republicans, democrats, a bigger cancer on the entire system has been the rise of big business and ideology. ideology is big business. so the very people that will tear into a ginsburg decision to raise money for their conservative group and will demonize her, will go up against people who would demonize scalia for his conservative opinions. >> because they know how much money is at stake in it. >> they could raise money from their special interests. it's this culture. it's unfortunately extreme ideology pays these days. >> i don't know if you found this, joe, i have had many members of congress, particularly on the house side say to me things really changed in washington when we started
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having a lot of flights out of reagan airport on friday evenings because at that moment we started leaving our families at home, left every weekend, no longer socialized. it's much harder to demonize somebody who you have sat down with. >> when i was in washington we got there in '94 and that's when we were told, finish your last vote, rush to the airport, go home, hold town hall meetings and we spent more time at home than up there and we stopped socializing, we stopped -- our kids stopped going to the same schools, we stopped going to the same churches, sin a gogs and suddenly there was no reason for somebody not to call somebody a nazi or marxist or something else. that didn't happen when your kids went to the same schools. >> should we get the latest on the news. the body of justice antonin scalia is returning to virginia this morning. a plane landed late last night at dulles international airport. the influential conservative your wrist was discovered dead over the weekend while in west
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texas with 30 other people. he would have been 80 next month. scalia's death has already reframed the presidential race and sent both parties digging in for a senate fight. president obama has promised to nominate a replacement though the white house says it will not come this week. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, however, has said there should not be a replacement during the president's final year in office and republican presidential candidates have echoed that position with ted cruz vowing to filibuster any supreme court nominee president obama puts forth. >> far too many republicans don't care about the court, don't invest political capital in it and it's why so many republican nominees have turned out to be disasters. let me say something in particular to the veterans in the state of south carolina. to the veterans in south carolina your second amendment rights are hanging in the balance. justice scalia's one of his biggest opinions was the individual's right to keep and bear arms if an additional
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liberal justice goes to the court we are one justice away from the second amendment being written out. and if donald trump becomes president the second amendment will be written out of the constitution because it is abundantly clear that donald trump is not a conservative. he will not invest the capital to confirm a conservative and so the result -- >> he says he will. >> whether it's hillary, bernie or donald trump the second amendment will go away. >> yesterday on mooet the press when asked whether he has his own litmus test for judges donald trump attacked ted cruz for backing chief justice john roberts. >> you never know what happens, chuck. you look at where a guy like ted cruz pushed very hard for justice roberts, everyone thought that was wonderful and justice roberts let everybody down by approving obamacare twice. he really did let us down. that's largely cruz's fault and the bush fault because they put the wrong guy in there. that was a shocking decision. >> by the way, cruz has acknowledged that backing roberts was a mistake, saying he
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would have preferred mike lutic but he went along with president bush's choice and yesterday jeb bush was forced to confront his brother's appointments as president. >> well, the sooner choice was unfortunate, he wandered off into -- you know, into the liberal camp for sure. john roberts i think can be a defended choice for sure, just, you know, the obamacare decision i was disappointed in, but he has made some really good rulings beyond that. here is the deal. i think the lesson learned is you pick someone with a proven long standing record, a history that you can point to when he wasn't considered or she wasn't being considered for a nomination to the supreme court. >> so, sam, the battle began immediately after scalia's death. i wasn't even offended. >> five minutes. >> i would usually be offended by such things, but it was so obviously a titanic event in american politics that you couldn't be shocked and say, oh,
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well, we must mourn for two or three days. i mean, i expected it immediately. >> yeah. >> and, do you know what, justice scalia would have expected it immediately, too, because so many cases hang in the balance, 5-4. >> sure. >> and, you know, heller is just one of them. the gun case. >> i mean, it does raise a question about the structure of our lifetime appointments to the supreme court. maybe it will spark a conversation about judicial term limits, who knows. >> you know, you and ben carson, dr. ben carson. >> ben carson does agree with that, rand, i believe, did agree with that, too. it was instantaneous and, i mean, what would surprise me i thought was that republicans in the senate said don't even bother nominating someone. i thought it probably would have been a more clever move on their part to play it coy, let him nominate someone, act like you're considering it but secretly saying i'm never going to pass this person but they were pretty clear don't even bother sending up someone. >> the timing i thought as a republican i thought the timing
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was bad. we have a clip of chuck schumer where chuck was shocked, shocked shocked, but he said the same thing in 2007. but i was wondering why they didn't just hold their fire and say, well, let's just see what happens and -- you know, instead of just saying immediately no matter who you send up we are going to vote no. >> i think it has a lot to do with the shoes that are being filled. think about the last four vacancies on the court during george w. bush's presidency the two seats that came open were held by conservative, conservativish judges. during president obama's term the two seats that have come out were actually republican appointees who had consistently voted with the liberal wing of the court so president obama filling that seat sort of makes sense. in this case because justice scalia is such a conservative stalwart the idea that president obama would nominate anyone who could effectively fill that seat
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and keep a balanced court is part of the reason why -- >> balanced? you're saying you want a 5-4 balance in terms of conservatives on the court, then. >> oh, please. >> but that's the point she's saying. >> no. i'm talking about the american people. in september gallop asked americans and this is after all of the summer supreme court rulings including the one on gay marriage they asked america do you think that the court is doo conservative, too liberal or about right. 40% said about right. only 20% said they thought the court was too conservative, 37% thought it was too liberal. nobody is clamming to make the court more liberal. >> look at the decisions, the big decisions, jon meachum with this republican court have upheld the affordable care act, obamacare, and has actually said there is a constitutional right for same-sex marriage. and this historically for people that don't understand why this is going to be such a big issue
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for republicans especially, go back, if you will, and alex has said since it is president's day perhaps you can even pull out a polk reference. but go down the laundry list as a conservative and for somebody that actually -- and i always surprise -- i surprise myself when i go in and vote, i never actually know which way i'm going to go and i surprise myself that i go one way or the other as aggressively as i do. but i'm always also surprised when there is a vacancy that at my core for me as a conservative even though i never talk about it this is like -- this ranks up there as one of the most important issues for me in selecting a president. and talk about the historical context, why conservatives like myself would shutter every time there was a vacancy to be filled, especially by a republican, because what did ike say was his biggest damn mistake ever, earl warren. ike also -- you know, close runner up for conservatives would be brenen who was a great
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liberal lion, but -- and you could go all the way through harry blackman, another republican appointee who authored roe v. wade, you could go to suitor who, jeb bush was right, he wandered off. he wandered off badly for conservatives and then, you know, you of course -- you can go all the way through and a lot of serves tiffs see john roberts as betraying them on obviously on the affordable care act. >> well, one thing as marco rubio might say one fiction we should dispense with and should maybe say it once or twice more is the idea that the court has not always been politicized. it was a federal strong hold in the early years of the republic, thomas jefferson as president tried to impeach samuel chase a federalist justice, he failed. it has been -- i can't quite get to polk, but the 1840s there was some moving around.
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and one of the greatest american politicians was john marshall. whose political and judicial skill made the court really into its -- gave it its role in our national life. shoot forward to the 20th century, you had the impeacher earl warren signs in the south, gerald ford leading a march against william owe douglas. gerald ford is the embodiment of a lost washington and yet even him took some shots at the supreme court politically. the last election year nominee we had, anthony kennedy, was only an election year nominee because of the way senator kennedy led the charge against robert bourque. bourque had failed and remember the great -- the kennedy speech which was really kind of a culture war her on or about ma.
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>> back alley abortion. it was -- >> i say this with all due respect. it was horrible. that was a horrible moment. go ahead, explain how that moment -- because i have always believed this, but people might actually believe you if you say it. i think that speech was fairly destructive to this entire process. >> there were two moments in that era. one was the rise of beginning grip on the right which he was rising as george h.w. bush becomes president, george h.w. bush is the last eisenhower republican and he has this culture on the right taking -- a reflexive culture on the right taking place but the kennedy speech against bourque was a similar kind of moment on the left. and i think that if you want to trace -- we can always trace these things to different moments, but in the late 1980s at the twilight of the reagan years i do think that you had
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the origins of certainly a defensive argument that the origins of what we are living with came from the rhetoric of the bourque nomination. still ahead on "morning joe" the gloves come off in south carolina as the republican presidential field gets their hands really dirt dwree in an ugly debate. plus democrats spend the weekend in nevada. we will be talking to john ralston about a state in which the electorate is much different than iowa. we were born 100 years ago into a new american century. born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. and what an amazing time it's been, decade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder. so, we say thank you america for a century of trust, for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together. ♪
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this is the ninth or tenth debate and what i've been watching here, this back and forth and these attacks, some of them are personal, i think we're fixing to lose the election to hillary clinton if we don't stop this. i mean, the fact is -- do you
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know what i would suggest, why don't we just take all the negative ads and all the negative comments down from television and let us just talk about what we're for and let's sell that and the republican party will be stronger as a result. okay. let's get some of the numbers now. just in south carolina. in an online poll taken, that was before saturday's debate donald trump was far and away at the head of the south carolina republican race at 42% in cbs ugov survey gave trump a 22 point lead over ted cruz 20%, marco rubio is at 15, john kasich he is at 9, jeb bush, ben carson they are both tied at 6 points each. immediately following saturday night's debate cbs news conducted an online poll and found that 32% thought marco rubio won, donald trump was in second, he is at 24 brs there, john kasich also received high marks he was at 19%, ted cruz at 12%, jeb bush as you were saying just now, joe, last at 5%.
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as for the debate, it was lit erred with tense moments, we will be talking about those throughout, like this exchange between trump and jeb bush when the businessman was asked about his 2008 comments saying impeachel president george w. bush would be a wonderful thing. >> obviously the war in iraq was a big fat mistake. all right? now, you can take it any way you want and it took -- it took jeb bush -- if you remember at the beginning of his announcement when he announced for president, took him five days, he went back, it was a mistake, it wasn't a mistake. george bush made a mistake. we can make mistakes, but that one was a beauty. we should have never been in iraq. we have destabilized the middle east. >> so, i mean -- so you still think he should be impeached. >> i think it's my turn. >> you do whatever you want, you call it whatever you want. i want to tell you they lied. they said there were weapons of mass destruction. there were none. and they knew there were none. there was no weapons of mass destruction. >> okay. all right. >> i'm sick and tired of barack
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obama blaming my brother for all of the problems that he has had. and frankly i could care less about the insults that donald trump gives to me, it's blood sport for him, he enjoys it and i'm glad he's happy about it. >> i am sick and tired of him going after my family. my dad is the greatest man alive in my mind. >> while donald trump was building a reality tv show, my brother was building a security apparatus to keep us safe and i'm proud of what he did. >> the world trade center came down during your brother's reign. remember that. >> hold on. >> let me finish. >> he has had to go after my mother. i won the lottery when i was born 63 years ago and looked up and saw my mom. my mom is the strongest woman i know. >> she should be running. >> i e-mailed media benjamin, the co-founder of the code pink,
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they disrupt all these things. i e-mailed her for her reaction to this after the debate. she writes me, honestly, on this issue trump has gone farther than even bernie sanders. it was great. i mean, that is remarkable for the leading republican candidate -- >> you realize you just got yourself into an ad. >> that's what i'm hoping for. i want the clicks. >> it was shocking, but i will tell you -- >> i don't think it's going to cost him. >> no. that's the request he. >> if you look at the reaction, which i've got to say i thought -- i thought it was going to blow up against him, but you look at the reaction, it hasn't. and what it suggests is the republicans don't want to fight the iraq war question because i think most of them quietly think that we got it wrong. >> yeah, i think a lot of republicans agree and we know now that from the polling on the iraq war more recently that a majority think that it was a mistake, but also that the reverence is just not there for
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the bush family name even in south carolina. for george w. bush it's -- >> he's got very high approval ratings in south carolina, right? >> you saw how the iraq war complicated jeb early in this campaign. jeb spent five days trying to figure out what to say about the decision to invade iraq. >> there were two things that came out of that debate. the one was that the establishment republicans thought finally trump has gone too far. you cannot call for the impeachment of a republican president but we didn't see that in the numbers. >> i'm not the republican establishment, i have been wailing against the republican establishment for 20 years. i thought trump was way too far. by talking about 9/11. i mean, i was -- i was thinking this is ron paul territory we're entering into and, again -- >> but the numbers are holding up for him. >> the numbers are holding up. >> either he's teflon and people just don't care or he is tapping into something that is there which is a profound dissatisfaction with the iraq
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war. >> the republican base feels like they have been lied to by republican leaders in washington for 30 years. >> right. >> and it's just hard for jeb as unfair as i personally think it is, it's hard for jeb to disconnect himself from that. >> and we put president bush into that category of people that lied to them. coming up on moemg antonin scalia influenced the next generation of jurors with his influence on textualism. we will hear from one of his former clerks who worked closely with the man. we will be back in just a minute. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ hiroshima hiroshima. hiroshima hiroshima. .
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for almost 30 years justice ant anyone nino scalia was a larger than life presence on the bench. brilliant legal mind with an energetic style, inn sighs sieve wit and colorful opinions. he influenced a generation of judges, lawyers and students and profoundly shaped the legal landscape. he will no doubt be remembered as one of the most consequential judges and thinkers to serve on the supreme court. >> that was president obama on saturday night praising justice scalia's service to the country. with us now from washington we have the president of the ethics public policy center and former law clerk to justice scalia ed way len and also at the table news and finance anchor.
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ed, i had tweeted something about how i appreciated president obama saying kind things about a great conservative justice and at the end of that i posted it and then i thought somehow even the word great next to conservative justice and justice scalia is insignificant. i think close sul might have been a more fitting term. >> he is a justice for the ages. as long as people will be reading supreme court opinions they will be reading and say vorg his opinions. many of his greatest opinions unfortunately are dissents. i think we will see just as we see with his dissent in the 1998 call on the independent counsel statute that his dissents will be vindicated over time. >> if chief justice lindquist was in his early years the lone
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dissenting will it be safe to say justice scalia will be known as the great dissenter. >> he is already known as that. you will see the tremendous force of his opinions, people will read through his dissents and look back and see what did the majority have to say in answer to that and they had nothing to say. it was the brute force of numbers that encountered his dissents. >> ed of course this has all got caught up in the presidential campaign and questions about whether president obama did indeed get somebody nominated who to get through the senate to replace justice scalia. what's the cost to the supreme court if there isn't a new appointment this year? >> there is no significant cost to the supreme court of a new -- not having a new appointment. look, chuck schumer back in 2007 contemplated the supreme court going with eight justices for more than a year and a half. the greatest cost to the supreme court would come if president obama succeeds in naming a replacement who would basically destroy justice scalia's legacy. this is a court that's deeply
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divided. president obama would be i believe to en trench is five justice liberal majority that would wipe out first amendment rights, redefine property into nothing. i don't see how our nation can survive having a five justice liberal majority entrenched on the court for the next generation. >> it's a shame although he clerked for justice scalia ed did not pick up any of his characteristics in framing arguments in the clearest terms. >> no, not at all. ed, i wanted to ask you about something that the justice was known for, especially in his earlier years as a judge when he would appoint one liberal clerk specifically each year just to have these heated debates that he was so enamored with. can you talk about that and what that said about his persona and how married he was to his own convictions that he loved arguing with the other side. >> well, he absolutely loved vigorous debate, he loved it because he believes in the power of reasoning and he wanted to have his own thinking, his own
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preconceptions tested. so he very much was looking for that liberal counter to make sure that he was getting things right. so he wanted someone who was a textualist and unfortunately he found over the years that the number of liberal textualists was dying down but he very much wanted somebody who would test his own preconceptions so he could be sure that he was getting the law right. >> ed, it's sam stein here. i do think the nation would survive, but it would be close. it would be close, okay? >> i'm with ed on that one. >> we would probably crumble. just a question about legacy matters. obviously he was a textualist, one of the things that, you know, riled up his critics is where he understood on social issues like, for instance, gay marriage. as someone who worked closely with him, as someone who cares deeply about his legacy what do you think we'll think of those opinions that he gave on gay marriage two decades from now,
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three decades from now? >> well, let's be clear on what his position was. >> sure. >> his position on gay marriage as on abortion is this is a matter that is left to the political processes to decide. this is a matter for the people to decide democratically in the states. everyone recognized ten years ago that that was -- virtually everyone -- that that was exactly what the constitution had to say on same-sex marriage. i think the living constitution in a lists who entrenched their own policy preferences are the ones that have more to explain for. he did not say that the constitution en trenches his presumed position on abortion or his presumed position on gay marriage. he said it's up to the people to decide and i think anyone who looks at what the constitution was designed to set up within broad bounds a system of republican government would understand that he got it right. so i hope very much as the passion over these issues dice down people will recognize the wisdom of his insights and we will have some sort of restoration of representative
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government. >> so there is -- in the supreme court case it legalized same-sex marriage this is what he wrote, and i'm only -- i bring this up, ed, because i was -- i was dismayed by some of the -- some of the opinions that were flowing after the death of justice scalia suggesting that he was for a ban on abortion, that he was for a ban on gay marriage. as you've said correctly, he thought that did not belong with nine justices on the supreme court. he said in so doing it robs the people of the most important liberty they asserted in the declaration of independents and one in the revolution of 1776, the freedom to govern themselves. and decide for themselves what they want instead of having nine justices telling them what the law shall be. ed, thank you so much. greatly appreciate you being with us. bianna stay with us. still ahead less than a week away from nevada's democratic
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caucuses, our next guest says it's too early to predict how it will go as hillary clinton is pulling out all the stops. far different than what they were doing just a month ago. we'll be right back. if your family outing is magical for all the wrong reasons. you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin®. because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. try zyrtec®. muddle no more®. won't keep you up at night.n
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we not only alert you to identity threats, if you have a problem, we'll spend up to a million dollars on lawyers and experts to fix it. lifelock. join starting at $9.99 a month. not everything is about an economic theory. right? if we broke up the big banks tomorrow, and i will if they deserve it, if they pose a systemic risk, i will, would that end racism? would that end sexism? would that end discrimination against the lgbt community? would that make people feel more welcoming to immigrants overnight? i'm the only candidate who will take on every barrier to progress. i'm the only candidate who has a record of taking on those barriers. i'm the only candidate who will stand with you in every single fight, no matter how hard it is or how long it takes. >> you know, i've got to admit
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something. you know, this is obviously my first national campaign, but i am really stunned by some of the attacks that we're getting from secretary clinton. clearly they have been unraveled by the results in iowa, by our victory in new hampshire and by the progress that we're making all over this country. >> with us now for the biggest little city in the world reno, nevada, kmum nis for the reno gazette journal, john ralston. he is value added an msnbc contributor. i said yesterday to alex, bring me the head of onralston and they said, good news, he is an msnbc contributor. so welcome. great to have you here. >> thanks, joe. >> i've been noticing in your writing you talking about a dramatic change in the way that the clinton campaign looked at nevada a month ago and how they're looking at your state now. >> yeah, you know, hillary clinton came to the state much earlier than bernie sanders, hired all the right people,
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operatives from '08 from both the clinton and obama campaigns, she reached out to the latino community, got some key endorsements. she had the state locked up. sanders didn't get here until the end of last year, october sometime immediately had a campaign shake up, doesn't have nearly the operatives on the ground who understand the state. this state should have been locked up for her, but since the landslide loss in new hampshire her campaign has put out this ridiculous spin that we are just like iowa and new hampshire, we're 80% white, suddenly they're trying to lower expectations but they've gone way overboard in their spin, i think. they are definitely worried about the result in nevada on saturday. >> john, can you talk about the young voter and the difficulty that hillary clinton is having in sort of inspiring them to come to her circle? this has surprised her in her camp going back to iowa. what is the sense you're getting in nevada? >> you know, i think it's the same here as it is all over the
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place in the sense that i've been to some bernie sanders rallies, including one yesterday in a totally packed high school gymnasium where there was clouds all the way out to the street, a lot of young people and much more diverse crowd than i think the clinton folks would like to see there. he is generating that kind of enthusiasm. i mean, people make the analogy between bernie sanders and '16 and obama in '08. i don't think that's quite right but it's clear that these young folks are synching with bernie sanders' message that we need a change, that the current government is corrupt, that we need someone who is not part of the so-called establishment and i think because the nevada caucus has same day registration about a quarter of the turn out in 2008 was new registrants, i think the clinton campaign is concerned that a lot of these young voters who are not registered yet are going to go caucus on saturday and vote for bernie sanders. >> john, it's sam stein here. obviously unions are a huge part
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of what's happening in nevada, especially in las vegas and there has been this kind of weird divide that's happening here where union leadership is very much supportive of hillary clinton, but then you talk to the members underneath it and they are not quite on board. they actually do like bernie sanders and what he's saying. from your sense on the ground is that divide there? is that going to be a problem for hillary clinton come caucus day? >> that's a great question, sam. the problem for bernie sanders with the unions is not just at the leadership has endorsed hillary clinton of every union except of course the main -- the most important union, the culinary union which represents strip workers is that these workers are excited about hillary clinton. >> they are. >> i went to a rally this weekend where a whole bunch of unions, probably half a dozen, maybe eight unions were represented and you talk to some of these folks, they're energized by hillary clinton, but hillary clinton has now done something very smart and she did this in 2008 even after the culinary union which is on the
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sidelines endorsed obama she's gone directly into the casinos. she went to a couple casinos this weekend, talked directly to workers. they love to see a presidential candidate suddenly show up while they are at work in their employee dining room. i think that this whole divide and conquer strategy for her that worked for her in '08, she won the caucus in '08 although she lost the delegate battle, i think that's being fairly effective for her, but you're right, on the ground a lot of these union workers are young folks, too, who are energized by bernie sanders and that uncertainty is why hillary clinton canceled, i think, some events today in joe's home state and stayed in nevada. she's got a full day today in three different cities, vegas, alco, nobody goes to alco if you are a democrat and reno. >> nobody. >> obama went to alco in 2008 because, you know, they apportion these delegates by congressional districts and they're worried about the rural nevada and northern nevada, the clinton pain, that is.
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>> the good people of alco now have a low gaen to put on their sign. >> nobody goes there. >> john ralston, thank you so much. may your rearedship flourish in alco. we will be right back with more "morning joe." in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained. and in albany, the nanotechnology capital of the world. let us help grow your company's tomorrow, today at business.ny.gov
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the cornerstone of american democracy, the unshakeable principle that everyone should have an equal vote, even idiots. even this guy.
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now, i know it's painful, but his vote should count as much as your yours. >> are you bee vis or butt head? that was funny. that was funny. >> that was your favorite clip of the day. >> i loved that. that was great. >> what exactly do you like about it? >> it was ridiculous. the guy was supposed to go into the water and there was ice. i've been up since 3:00 a.m. >> oh, please don't whine. millennial. no shoulder millennial. >> come on. >> how many nba fantasy basketball teams do you have? >> i don't do that but i do two nfl ones and two baseball ones. >> while you're playing xbox with your head phones on. >> i don't own xbox. coming up next, what we've learned say too much about sam
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then smash it into a tree.ch on a perfect car, your insurance company raises your rates... maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance. during the democratic debate hillary clinton attacked bernie sanders saying that he needs to be more honest with voters about the difficulty of accomplishing many of his proposals. while clinton's critics say she has to be honest with voters about -- all that stuff and then there's -- oh, there's more.
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oh, wow, okay. got to be honest about that stuff. >> oh, my god, that is funny. time to talk about what we learned today. i'm afraid we learned way too much about sam stein. >> way too much. keep it under wraps. we also learned lindsey graham does not like ted cruz. my days? guantanamo bay. >> for four days that was rough. >> i learned that elko, nevada, is according to john ralston the worst place, do not go there. no one goes there. >> it's the best kept secret in nevada. >> that's good spin. >> i learned what a good spinner jeb bush is calling both cruz and rubio right when you asked them if they were liars. >> were they lying. he said that was a polite way to say they were both liars and she was like they're both right. and also very interesting sam stein, about nevada. john ralston saying this thing was locked up for hillary a month ago, now they're getting
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concerned. >> it's closer than they can possibly imagine. maybe bernie can pull it out. >> roger bennett was on today, he was absolutely fabulous, we learned so much but your son very excited about arsenal. >> very happy arsenal with my son, very unhappy city support with my husband. >> it's sort of been a rough year. >> and the money they have it shouldn't be. >> exactly. if it's way too early it's "morning joe" but stick around because "msnbc live" is coming up next and they're going to be talking about english premiere soccer all day long. >> no one knows what's going on here. >> and the house just cleared. we'll see you tomorrow. thank you. all right. truth in advertising, no english premiere soccer, joe scarborough, but good morning all. i'm chris jansing live in columbia, south carolina, with msnbc special coverage from the 2016 campaign trail.
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it is president's day, major after shocks of a seismic shift from the death of supreme court justice antonin scalia that will have far reaching political, judicial and social implications not just for years but potentially for decades to come. we're just five days away from the republican presidential primary here in south carolina that could narrow the field even more. not to mention the democratic caucus in nevada. the high court vacancy has ignited a new and rare election year battle, one in which the white house, congress and supreme court are all in play. >> we ought to make the 2016 election a referendum on the supreme court. >> i think the real plan for it would be somebody just like justice scalia. >> there is no way the senate should confirm anyone that barack obama tries to appoint in his last year in office. >> we have a president, he was elected, he has the right to nominate another supreme court justice. >> i don'thi

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