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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  March 2, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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does want to still give a speech as a candidate the day after that on friday. so that means even though we will be able to poof him soon, we cannot poof him yet for some reason. hold tight though, he'll go soon. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again time. good evening, lawrence. >> i wasn't ready. i wasn't ready for you to poof him. >> we haven't poofed him yet. sometime soon. hold tight. 13 days, that might be all the time that's left in the race for the republican presidential nomination and just about every republican not named trump is now in full panic mode. >> trump is the gop's monster. >> if trump does well it's likely game over. >> paul ryan, i don't know him well. i'm sure i'm going to get along great with him.
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>> we may be in a position where have to rally around ted cruz. >> we are the only campaign that has beaten behind ted cruz. >> do you think that some of the personal attacks may have been backfired. >> you know what they say about men with small hands. >> i've always had people say donald, you have the most beautiful hands. >> donald trump is the front-runner and there are more delegates against him than for him. >> if i'm going to win all of these states with tremendous numbers it's hard to say that's no the the person to lead the person. >> if that someone doesn't have the votes going into the convention, then all hell could break loose. >> our forefathers would be horrified if they were here today. 13 days.
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the next 13 days could change our world. we've been here before. last time with our very survival at stake. on october 16th, 1962 the cia presented john f. kennedy with photographs of missile sites equipped to launch missiles that could wipe out washington, d.c. and new york city in a flash. president kennedy addressed the nation and made his demand that they be removed and instantly the united states of america and the world knew that we were on the brink, the brink of nuclear war. in 13 days of secret complex, sometimes confusing and intense negotiations president kennedy convinced his counterpart to back down and remove those missiles. that was the closest the world has come to nuclear war.
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the cuban crisis was solved in 13 days through the efforts of diplomats, military officials and all kinds of people who donald trump now calls stupid. they were all led by a president who never called anyone stupid and his brother in 13 they diffused the single greatest threat that has ever faced the united states of america. they were the most dramatic 13 days in the history of our government. if you lived through them, you will never forget them and tonight we may now be embarking on the most dramatic 13 days in the history of presidential campaigning, 13 days that you will never forget. that may be all the time that's left to stop donald trump from winning the republican presidential nomination. today donald trump added two and a half pages of substance to his campaign releasing a very slim position paper on health care reform entitled of course health care reform, to make america great again.
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it begins by calling president obama the most partisan president in american history. that is because donald trump and no one in his campaign seems to know that the civil war actually occurred on president lincoln's watch, being the most divisive president in american history for all the right reasons. point one of the trump position paper says we will ask congress to immediately deliver a full repeal of obamacare. sound familiar? not to me it doesn't. i have never heard donald trump mention congress having any role in his imaginary presidential powers. >> we're going to win with obamacare, we're getting rid of
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it, repealing it and replacing. >> he always says he's going to do it himself, whether it's repeal obamacare or raise tariffs and he can't do any of that himself, but donald trump knows his voters will never read this paper so he can say any reform effort must begin with congress, several reforms will be offered that should be considered by congress. congress must act. the first thing he wants do is repeal obamacare, which senate democrats will not allow so that will never happen. then he wants to allow health insurance to be sold across state lines, meaning your state's insurance commissioner will no longer be able to regulate health insurance. all health insurance will then be sold from whatever state has the weakest insurance commissioner in america who allows the weakest and most deceptive insurance policies to be sold.
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donald trump wants to ask congress to allow individuals to deduct health insurance premium payments which gives the highest deductions to richest taxpayers and would blow a trump size hole in the deficit because nothing he proposes in this plan, nowhere in it, does he suggest any way to pay for a single penny of it. donald trump would ask congress to allow individuals to use health savings accounts that could be used by anyone in their family and he would ask congress to block medicare aid to the states which would mean governors like chris christie would use that money in any way they wanted to cover up big holes in their budgets. nowhere in trump's plan does he mention pre-existing conditions. the words are never used. big surprise because he wasn't telling the truth when he said this.
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>> the insurance companies are making an absolute fortune. yes, they will keep pre-existing plans. we should keep pre-existing conditions. >> donald trump says we need to reform our mental health programs but he has no idea how, instead the trump plan says there are promising reforms being developed in congress that should receive bipartisan support. because that's the way it works. this is the most important trump document yet revealed in this campaign. this is the smoking gun that i guarantee you the media will ignore. this smoking gun proves every public fantasy that donald trump has offered voters about his imagine cal presidential powers, every one of those is a lie and this document proves it.
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in this document, president trump has no power whatsoever. he's just another beggar asking congress to do something and that actually is the truth of the presidency. that's the design. the truth of the presidency is that congress has power over every important matter including selection of supreme court justices, including war making matters, that is how the founding fathers balanced the power through the budget congress can control anything and forbid anything. congress has all that power and the president just gets very toe power over them and the congress gets the power to overrule the president's veto power. donald trump didn't seem to understand that last night. >> i'm going to get along great with congress. paul ryan, i'm sure i'll get along with him and if i don't he'll have to pay a big price.
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>> when i heard that threat to paul ryan last night, i mentioned that presidents never threaten the speaker. house because presidents know the speaker of the house has complete control over the president's agenda. someone in trump's world must have been listening last night because today the trump group has reached out to paul ryan. the speaker of the house says we have heard from the trump campaign, but the two have not yet spoken. we expect the speaker to be in touch with all the remaining candidates soon. so how tough a negotiator with paul ryan will donald trump will be? not as tough as his deluded voters seem to think. one way donald trump tries to convince supporters how tough he is by suing people or i should say threatening to sue people.
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>> he's repeatedly threatened people with lawsuits and not followed through, including lawrence o'donnell, vanity fair and an activist. i'll sue is trump's version of baziga. it doesn't mean anything. >> donald trump has been sued for fraud more than any other presidential candidate because none of the worst of the presidential candidates have been sued for fraud. even with that donald trump tries to play tough with his aud ens. >> when i get sued, i take it right -- take it all the way. you know what happens, if you settle suites you get sued more. so i don't settle anything. >> of course donald trump never settles except when he does as he did with my next guest who
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will tell his story of suing donald donald trump. he purchased a con minimum that he thought was donald trump. it then went bankrupt and donald trump later claimed he had nothing to do with it. >> donald trump was an expert in these types of projects or so we thought. >> in a deposition for a lawsuit regarding the property, trump's son donald trump, junior, conceded that the trump brand could lead people to think a project was a solid investment. >> it's one of the things that you learned through this process is that the trump name brings stability to the project. >> i don't know if it brings stability or viability, but i imagine certain people feel that. >> joining us now bart ring, a lawyer who settled that case
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against donald trump involving that project and william flint who was one of the people who sued the donald trump organization. thank you both for joining me tonight. i really appreciate it. mr. flint, what made you invest in that donald trump project? >> we were on a little vacation trip in april of 2006 and on the toll road, the mexican toll road on the way we saw this huge sign with donald trump's image on it and the image of the resorts, so we thought this looks kind of interesting, i had retired. i was going to retire from the navy. i spent 31 years in the navy and retired as a captain and i thought this would be nice because we'd be next to san diego and access to the medical a facility.
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so we stopped in on the way back to san diego, met the representative there at the site. the site consisted of a sales office and a construction shed. the sales office had a complete mockup of the resort. beautiful three towers, swimming pools, fitness. so we were told donald trump was it. he was the guy behind this whole thing and that we could always trust donald trump and so that kind of sold us on the deal. we gave them a $5,000 deposit, which gave us an exclusive right to select the site when it came up and so we get a phone call in june of 2007, maybe, to show up in san diego because they were going to offer us an opportunity to buy a unit in tower two. we got -- we show up. a huge crowd, all kinds of trump
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people around. we -- they had the model of tower two there and we happened to meet the architect. the architect was a young man by the last name of glass. he said this is the greatest going. he was from our hometown and went to high school with my older son. so we were sold on this thing. and that's the way it was. >> let's take a look at the promotional video for this project that donald trump did. >> people ask me, what does trump stand for more than anything else and if i use one word it's always quality. big windows, great fixtures, beautiful kitchens. everything is going to be the best.
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>> what was the essence of the case you brought on behalf of your clients and how did you settle it? >> the bottom line was the case was about mr. trump's decision to disavow himself of having any responsibility when the project failed and despite the representations made through marketing materials as well as documents and even letters that reaffirmed his role as a developer in the project mr. trump took the position that he licensed his name and gave notice he had no responsibility. there was $32.5 million worth of deposits and the buyers were left with nowhere to go but to litigate. ultimately the case resolved. mr. trump was a developer in this project with iron gate, which was the same tandem that did the trump baja project. iron gate folded about halfway through litigation and then after iron gate was settled and out of the case ultimately the approximately 200 people represented on our ends of things settled with the trump organization.
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>> william flint, you're one of those veterans that donald trump talks about how much he loves veterans and wants to help them in every way. you couldn't have given more service to your country. when you hear him talking about how he wants to take care of veterans, what's your reaction to that? >> my reaction is that donald trump is putting on a con. that's all it is. he conned us. he's a con man. what else can i say? it cost me a lot of money. 168,000 and i'm just -- we
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settled, but he's a liar there also because he did settle. he says he never settles, but he did. >> william flint, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i'm sorry you're joining us to tell us this story. and bart ring, thank you for joining us. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, donald trump won massachusetts big time last night and today the biggest republican in the state says that he will not vote for donald trump in november. but with my back pain i couldn't sleep... so i couldn't get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12-hour strength of aleve... for pain relief that can last into the morning. and now... i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.
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we're always looking for ways to speed up your car insurance search. here's the latest. problem is, we haven't figured out how to reverse it. for now, just log on to plug in some simple info and get up to 50 free quotes. choose the lowest and hit purchase. now...if you'll excuse me, i'm late for an important function. saving humanity from high insurance rates. donald trump won massachusetts last night and here is what massachusetts' republican governor charlie baker said today. >> i said that i wasn't going to vote for donald trump yesterday and i didn't and i don't plan to vote for him in november, but i'm not willing to concede with 35 still to go that he's going to be the republican nominee.
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>> governor baker becomes the 30th prominent republican official that says he will not support donald trump if gets the presidential nomination. hi i'm kristie. and i'm jess. and we are the bug chicks. we're a nano-business. windows 10 really helps us get the word out about how awesome bugs are. kids learn to be brave and curious and all kids speak the language of bug. "hey cortana, find my katydid video." oh! this is so good. if you're trying to teach a kid about a proboscis. just sketch it on the screen. i don't have a touch screen on my mac, i'm jealous of that. you put a big bug in a kids hands and change their world view. [ laugh ] and ca"super food?" is that recommend sya real thing?cedar? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year?
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if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. republicans have tried to turn liberal into a bad word. liberals ended slavery in this country. >> a republican president ended slavery. >> yes, a liberal republican. what happened to them? they got run out of your party. what did liberals do that was so offensive to the republican party, senator?
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>> what has happened to the republican party and how long has it been happening? first, they got rid of liberal republicans, then they started getting rid of responsible republicans who would never dream of bringing the country to the brink of fiscal calamity by refusing to raise the debt ceiling and now they are on the verge of nominating a candidate who john oliver calls a liar. will donald trump destroy the republican party? at least one republican hopes so and that is exactly why he voted for donald trump yesterday. joining us now is that republican. bruce bartlett. also with us the national correspondent. so bruce, there's no one i know who is more opposed to donald trump than you are. you voted yesterday in virginia i assume.
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>> yes. >> voted for donald trump? >> yes, i did. >> explain yourself, sir. >> my goal is to try to destroy the republican party. i think only when it has reached rock bottom can responsible republicans once again come back and make it a reasonable governing party. right now it is just the coalition of cranks and religious cukes and people associated with the tea party who have taken control of it since 2010 and they have to be run out of the party completely and i think trump is the vehicle that will allow it to happen. i think if he gets the nomination and i hope he does, he will have -- he will go down to a historic defeat. i think the republican establishment will have no choice but to disown him.
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i think there will be a very substantial republicans for hillary effort and i think that he will lose disastrously and bring down a lot of republican senators and congressmen with him. >> my sense is this pebble started rolling down the hill decades ago in a way that we didn't perceive that we thought was increased tension of certain kinds, but then in the last few years certainly under the obama administration the republicans in washington have been promising more and more impossible dreams in the face of legislative realities and so here with we are with the guy who promises anything. >> the republican party doesn't stands for anything in particular. it stands against liberalism and that's not exactly coherent either.
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so what the republican party has become now is the party that's against barack obama. if republicans had been right that barack obama was a crazy leftist, then by posing him at every turn they would have made their party a moderate politically party. instead obama was a centrist. so by posing him at every turn, by holding the nation's credit rating hostage, by coming out against the iran deal when they had no alternative but war, by becoming the party that's not just illegal, but legal immigration, they have pushed their party to the extreme and that is what has left them in the situation where donald trump now represents their voters. >> bruce, i think i know what ted cruz and rush limbaugh are going to say if donald trump is the nominee and if he loses big in november.
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they're going to say what they always say, we didn't nominate a true conservative, donald trump wasn't a true conservative that was our big mistake. >> well of course they will say that, but i think that history shows that after a party loses the presidency enough times, there are enough people in that party who really, really want to win that they will put aside a crazy ideology and look at somebody based not on ideology, but based on electability. i don't know who or if there's a republican that could win in 2020, but none of the guys running this year can win, in my opinion. >> one of the things that strikes me about the trump campaign and shows you how it's shattering the republican party is he does go in there and say things like no george w. bush did not keep us safe, 9/11
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happened on his watch, the iraq war happened on his watch, it was a republican presidential candidate to say either one of those things before donald trump said them. >> look, republican voters, anybody voting for trump loves this. they love it when he says this. the problems is what these voters are voting for, they're not voting for a policy when they do that, they're voting for a guy who vents. the republican party has become a party of venting. it hasn't held the white house and it hasn't taken seriously the running of congress. it is show votes, voting against obamacare again and again. so they've gotten out of the habit of making policy. they vent and now they have a candidate who says things, the voters love it, but as you pointed out earlier there's no agenda behind. there's no policy behind it that could solve any problems.
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>> this is the party that gave sarah palin the vice president nomination eight years ago, someone who they said is ready to take over the presidency in a blink of an eye. this seems to flow from that. >> actually i think it goes back even earlier to dan quail who you remember his chief of staff was bill crystal and he took this guy who i occasionally had occasion to work with in the bush administration and the guy that was -- there was no there there. that's where they got the idea that somebody like sarah palin could be controlled and manipulated to be a talking head with people like bill crystal pulling the strings and that didn't really work and the result now is that they've so dumbed down their party that donald trump is viable.
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>> thank you for sharing your voting strategy tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, the damage marco rubio is doing to donald trump and he is doing damage. might not be enough to save the rubio campaign, but it absolutely will help the democrats in november.
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today i learned thanks to a charlie pierce tweet that thomas jefferson was a much more insult comedian than marco rubio or donald trump. jefferson called his rival a hideous character which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman. joining us now, april ryan white house correspondent and eugene robertson and msnbc political analyst. april, the white house press core back in the day of thomas jefferson had some quotes.
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i want to show a clip of marco rubio talking about donald trump because this is so much i believe what we saw in 2012 when newt gingrich went after mitt romney. let's listen to him talking about trump university. >> he is trying to do to the american voter what he did to the students of trump university and we are not going to let it happen. we are not going to let the conservative movement and the party of ronald reagan and the party of abraham lincoln be taken over by a first-rate con artist, which is what is about to happen. >> i don't know how marco rubio is going to do, but i know i'm going to see him on video in commercials paid for by democrats in november. >> yes. i want to go back to something you said with thomas jefferson, rubio is really hitting under the belt. he's gone to the point of the tweets and how trump has misspelled words.
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he's talking about his grammar and talking about the fact that he want to the business school and is this what they teach them at that school. going back to thomas jefferson, rubio, if you really listen to what rubio is saying when he talks about his hands, if you really listen to the hand thing, that is a reference to something else on a human's body. so i'm like, wow, he's really hitting below the belt and he's catching his stride and he found the chink in the armor because donald trump is livid and trying to attack rubio. >> he knows, everyone knows, this stuff really deeply bothers donald trump. this is exactly the stuff that trump doesn't want to hear. >> it does seem to bother him. does it bother his voters? that's kind of -- that's kind of the question, i mean does it effect the fact that trump has won how many primaries so far and rubio has won one caucus finally last night.
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>> yeah. >> he's got to be -- he's got a long climb and he's going to -- he's got to make himself the center of attention somehow and i think that, as much as getting under trump's skin is what he's trying to do. he wants us talking about him rather than talking about trump all the time. >> i want to add to marco rubio's credit, i saw him on saturday he did a policy speech that was at least 30 minutes long, all policy, all serious. he began with five minutes of jokes about trump. everybody ran every joke about trump and not one word about government. let's listen to some of the funny rubio stuff. let's listen to what he said about trump and his casinos. >> he says he's some sort of business genius. why did four of your companies into into bankruptcy? why did citi put you on an allowance.
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how do you bankrupt a casino? the house always wins. >> and april, there he goes. he goes right at the area where he knows trump is vulnerable and he knows it will drive him crazy. >> this is good snl stuff, but one thing for sure rubio is doing this with a wink and nod from the republican national committee and they love it. he has the wind beneath his wings, about the fortunate facts is we hear the jokes and not the policy and we tell our children not to play to do jokes and not to be bullies and that's what we're seeing right now on this republican side of debate, campaign. i don't what you call it. >> i think there's a longer range of a rubio possibility here which is if donald trump is the nominee, he believes he will lose, that means marco rubio can run for an open republican presidential nomination four years from now. >> yeah, he can, but rubio is
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young and one thing lindsey graham has said he's too young and i think a lot of people will take him under their wing and try to help groom him to be the prince the next time out, but look at what happened to paul ryan with the failed attempt with the romney/ryan ticket, he may have gone kicking and screaming into the position so he's in that position now. i think rubio has a lot in store for him even beyond 2020 i guess you would say. >> he may have the longest political future of them all. april ryan, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. coming up, who do the democrats want to win the republican nomination and who do the republicans want to win the democratic nomination.
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his disapproval rating in the poll is 64%. it is the lowest approval rating in the history of polling of new jersey governors. now six new jersey newspapers have issued a joint editorial calling on governor christie to resign saying we're disgusting with his endorsements of trump after trashing him and we're fed up with his continuing travel out of state on new jersey's dime stumping for trump after finally abandoning his own presidential campaign. for the good of the state it's time for christie to resign as governor. if he refuses citizens should initiate a recall effort. up next we have breaking news tonight in the investigation of hillary clinton's e-mail server.
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we have breaking news tonight in the investigation of hillary clinton's state department e-mail address. "the washington post" reporting that the department of justice will grant immunity to the former state department employee who set up a private e-mail server for secretary clinton in her home in new york. brian is working with the fbi on the investigation which the government launched last summer. at this time there's no indication that prosecutors have assembled a grand jury in the e-mail investigation. no statement yet from the fbi or justice department on this. the lawyer has also declined comment. brian pleaded the fifth
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amendment before the house committee investigating this issue. joining us now writer at large for esquire and eugene robinson is back with us. charlie who do you make of this news tonight and how might it effect the campaign. >> reporter: two things, this investigation continues to be a sieve. number two there's no indication this is anything more than an investigative tactic and fourth brian has a good lawyer and four it's going to be a few days of scarey headlines. >> donald trump is going to have something to say about it. >> trump has already convicted hillary clinton. obviously they want to ask some questions, want to ask him what did the secretary clinton tell you to do and why did she tell you -- why did she tell you she
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wanted it done and that sort of thing and also how did he set up the server and anything they can learn, there may be absolutely nothing there or nothing untoward, but it sounds logical they want to hear from this guy. they gave him immunity and we'll hear the testimony. >> can we expect that bernie sanders will stick to the point that nobody wants to hear any more about hillary clinton's damn e-mails. >> reporter: he hasn't raised it so far. he's more interested in getting the transcript of the speech she gave. so i don't anticipate he'll try to make a meal out of this. again, brian took the fifth amendment in front of congress and i would take the fifth amendment in front of that committee if they asked me my name and address because i wouldn't trust them as far as i could throw them, but i think this is just a tool by which the fbi will get what they want to get to learn from him.
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all right. when we come back who do the democrats want to win the nomination and who do the republicans want to win the nomination in the other party? double your money back guarantee. always discreet is for bladder leaks and it's drier than poise. try it. we're so confident you'll love it, we'll give you double your money back if you don't. incredible bladder protection. double your money back guarantee. that's always discreet. (patrick 2) pretty to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone.
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>> yeah, hillary's way too american to be a russian. up next, which -- who are the democrats rooting for to win the republican nomination and who are the republicans rooting for to win the democrat nomination. imodium multi symptom relief is the only product that combines two powerful ingredients to relieve diarrhea faster than any other otc medicine. it also eases gas, cramps, and bloating. imodium multi symptom relief. restore rhythm to your digestive system. then smash it into a on a perfect car, imodium multi symptom relief. your insurance company raises your rates... maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance.
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in 13 days the presidential nominations in both parties just might be basically locked up. who do the republicans want and who do the democrats want in the other party? charlie pierce, eugene robinson back with us. charlie let's start with the democrats. who do the democrats really want to run against? >> reporter: at this time of the year when we're all filling our ncaa tournament brackets, there's always that one team that you say no good team wants to play them in the first round, i think this point they'd rather run against except donald trump because nobody knows what the guy is going to do.
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there's no rhyme or reason. he's a bringer of chaos. i think by the time of the convention, especially if the republicans have a bloodbath in cleveland this will change, but i think they would rather run against ted cruz. >> what do you think? >> i think they would rather run against ted cruz. there is a play book for running against ted cruz. he's a conservative. you know what he's going to say, you know how he's going to attack and plus nobody likes him. so that's the guy i would want to run against. somebody said and i wish it had been me that running against donald trump is like participating in a nascar race when one of the other drivers is drunk. all bets are off so they would definitely not i think want to run against donald trump.
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>> donald trump is willing to say things that nobody else is which means it would be unique in the history of clinton campaigning because the opponent would absolutely go straight at all of bill clinton's indiscretions that did not involve governing and did involve women not his wife. >> reporter: not just that but i think we're going back to the airport and the fish camp and the water waterer development corporation. worry going to go back maybe to making stuff up again. >> and the kids are all running to the google machine right now to find out -- look -- >> reporter: i'm sorry, children. >> i want to put some numbers up on the board here. it turns out in the one-on-one matchups right now in the cnn poll, hillary clinton beats donald trump 52% to 44%. the trouble is hillary clinton loses to rubio and she loses to ted cruz. in a one-on-one against rubio hillary clinton is at 47 and
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cruz at 50%. cruz is 49% and hillary clinton is 48%. bernie sanders beats them all and he beats donald trump by a bigger number than hillary does. bernie sanders beats trump 55% to 43% and bernie sanders makes ted cruz disappear, 17 points ahead, bernie sanders 57%, that's the highest number in any of these matchups, 57% to 40%. gene, do you want to change your testimony? >> no, i think i'll stay where i am. hillary clinton and the clinton machine are a tough political opponent for anybody. i think history proves that and i think -- i think they'll be tough. bernie sanders is a good politician, he's a good campaigner.
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the republicans i believe would be delighted to run against sanders, despite those numbers because they believe they can bring those numbers down by yelling socialist, socialist until their throats are raw and hoarse. >> charlie, what do you think would the republicans rather run against bernie sanders or hillary clinton? >> reporter: yeah, because if they have to run against hillary clinton they have to defend the south, which they wouldn't have to do against bernie sanders. they wouldn't -- they might not necessarily lose any states down there, but they would have to spend money and organize down there and they would have to take the south seriously, but this is one of those situations where you take a deep breath and thank god for the electoral college. >> these are the polls where bernie sanders wants to bring them to washington and show his friends, the professionals remain unimpressed by these.
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>> and their reasons by the professionals are unimpressed in general by these kinds of polls because they don't follow the question do you know anything about candidate x or candidate y? i'm not a pollster. i can't say they're entirely worthless and bernie sanders is right to bring them up, they are points in his favor. in the end i guess my gut is that hillary clinton is the one the republicans don't want to run against. >> charlie, how worried should the democrats be when they look at how hillary clinton matches up in these polls? >> reporter: i don't think very worried right now. i think they look at the other side and see chaos. i think they have a -- they have some real breathing space to get their act together, which is unusual for democrats. >> democrats, when they look at rubio tying basically with clinton and rubio slightly ahead.
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>> i think democrats worry about marco rubio, but then again marco rubio has won one caucus. >> you don't have to worry too much. thank you both tonight. appreciate it. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews, back in washington. well, too little too late and too loopy. the republican establishment trying to keep the nomination from the man who has now won ten state primaries and on the way to tripling the number. question, this being a democracy, how do you deny your party's, people who have never done anything like it have come rushing from their houses to support.


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