tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 11, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PST
tonight on "all in." violence at trump rallies getting worse. >> next time we might have to kill him. tonight an arrest is made and the men assaulted at a trump campaign event is speaking out. as a female reporter says she was roughed up by trump's campaign manager. >> obviously no one wants to be touched and violated like that. >> plus, ahead of tonight's debate, why ted cruz is evolving his convention talk. >> a contested convention is a different thing. >> a revealing new twist in the democratic primary. >> i do not have the same policy as the current administration does. >> and president obama responds to the question are you
responsible for donald trump? >> i've actually heard this argument a number of times. >> tonight the president's answer and author thomas frank on why liberals share the blame. >> i have been blamed by republicans for a lot of things. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. tonight the protestor who was viciously elbow smashed in the face at a donald trump rally in north carolina yesterday is speaking out. the assailant now facing criminal charges for attacking him told the tv show, quote, the next time we see him we might have to kill him. 78-year-old john mcgraw was arrested this morning and assaulted with assaulting rakeem jones. jones was being assaulted from the trump rally where out of nowhere trump stepped towards him and attacked. in an interview airing today mcgraw said he had no regrets.
>> you bet i liked it. >> what did you like it? >> knock the hell out of that big mouth. >> so he deserved it? >> every bit of it. what was that. >> yes, he deserved it. the next time we see him we might have to kill him. >> we don't know if he's isis. he might be with a terrorist organization. on msnbc this morning jones and ronny rouse who shot video talked. >> hits the guy from behind the police, on the side of the police and they throw rakeem down. he sits back down and finishes eating his popcorn. it's crazy that you get pretty much almost arrested because you got assaulted and that's just not -- that's insane. that's insane. we're the first people thrown out at least -- he just -- just as he came out. this is the first 60 seconds, 2 minutes of him being there and we're the first people thrown out and at this point he's
telling him, he's like, yeah, go home to your mother. go home to your mother, you know? then the crowd, they just -- they're enamored with it. they start chanting it, too. >> rakeem, the campaign today gave us one statement. four words. they say, we are not involved. what would you say back to the trump campaign. they say they're not involved. this isn't their problem? >> i mean, i'm pretty sure they heard him. sounded pretty involved to me when he was saying telling me to go home to my mom. >> i want it to read a quote from john mcgraw. he's the man accused of hitting you. he said, quote, you bet i liked it, clocking the hell out of that big mouth. this man has now been arrested. do you want to see him go to jail? >> yeah. >> want justice. >> i mean, but reality is, he'll
probably be bailed out. you know. >> events at the trump rally in north carolina followed a series of incidents in which protestors have faced threats, physical intimidation, shoving, spitting, things like that at trump rallies often with with a wink and a numbering if not more from the candidate himself. >> there's a guy totally disruptive, throwing punches. we're not allowed to punch back anypoor. i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like that in a place like this? they'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. that's true. he's walking out like a big high five. smiling, laughing. i'd like to punch him in the face, i'll tell ya. >> yeah. get him out. try not to hurt him. if you do, i will he defend you in court. don't worry about it. if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you, seriously? okay. just knock the hell -- i promise you, i will pay for the legal
fees, i promise. i promise. >> pressed on whether trump will in fact pay the legal fees of john mcgraw, the man who allegedly sucker punched. the campaign said, we are not involved in that incident. obviously discourages physical contact with protesters. there is another new incident in which the trump camp cannot deny direct involvement. it involves trump's very own campaign manager, cory leeuwieu lewendowski. michelle fields said she was asking trump a question about affirmative action when she was jolted backwards, grabbed by the arm. washington post reporter said he witnessed it.
breitbart has been one of trump's most stalwart statements. they eventually took a stronger stance behind fields. it's beyond pathetic breitbart had to be shamed into standing up for its own reporter. trump's campaign denied that lewandowski assaulted fields. they said, the accusation is false. lewandowski suggests she's a liar. this despite an audio reporting obtained by politico though not defin knittive. >> i guess they magically appeared on me. so weird. daily beast reported that lewandowski had reportedly
admitted it. late tonight sources close to the trump campaign told nbc's katie tur, corey has always had an extremely aggressive and contentious relationship with the media. we've known his irrational anger could cross the line. earlier today ben shapiro called on trump to fire lewandowski. all of this comes as conservatives and republicans consider the possibility of a contested nominee at the convention and a potential to deny the nomination. now they find themselves having to factor in the possibility of mob violence from trump supporters if they try just that. one trump advisor told "new york times" reporter trip gabe bring that he will if trump comes to cleveland with a lead and the delegates try to deny him, they'll burn the place down.
they wrote the establishment would watch trump supporters pour gasoline across the convention floor and then strike a match. joining me now is david graham, staff writer for "the atlantic" who was at the rally where fields was attacked. david, tell me what it felt like in that room while all this was going on. >> it felt very strange and a little bit uncomfortable. there's this whole sort of tension in the room and a lot of people who are very angry about a lot of things. then in the course of this you have -- there were 18, 20 instances of protesters being taken out. in fact, i didn't see the punch thrown from where i was sitting. every few minutes people would get up with a sign, a shirt. sheriff's deputies would swarm them. twhiel is going on trump is making fun of them. he had a punch line for most of them. everybody isering and yelling at those follow beings. >> have you ever been to a political rally?
>> no. i've never been to a trump rally like this. it felt a little bit different. >> the trump campaign makes the argument basically, we cannot control our supporters. this man has nothing to do with us. thousands of people come from trump rallies and the vast majority of totally peaceable. do you buy that? >> i think that's true, most of them are totally peaceable. i'm not sure i credit that that they're not in control at all. you have trump saying things you played a little bit ago. he said last night in the old days this wouldn't have happened. people would have handled them very roughly. we've gotten weak. which sounds a lot like an invitation to do something that isn't weak and haul off and take a swing at someone. >> it's been amazing to watch. there's this back and forth about the spec tore of mob violence in cleveland and a debate about it. erick erickson as i quoted wrote that piece saying look this is something you factor in when you think about a contested convention. have we really sunk this low? have we gotten to the point where we have to factor in the
possibility of violence? what -- do you feel there is some air of menace that this is some sort of side show? >> yeah, very much that's the case here at this show. even outside there were a bunch of protesters who gathered. you had all of the protesters in one place and the protesters circling. many of them wanting to yell at the attend december. it felt like there was a riot about to break out. there were fist fights that i saw. it was a tense atmosphere. people are transmitting their anger about the political system into physical violence and anger at specific individuals. >> that's a bridge that is a very dangerous bridge to cross. >> absolutely. >> david graham from "the atlantic." thank you so much. really enjoyed it. joining me, charlie pierce,
writer for "esquire" magazine. i want to talk about the endorsement trump appears to be getting from ben carson. i want to talk to you about this phenomenon. i was talking to two people who are veteran political advisors. they said it felt like '68. in '68 there was so much action in the streets and so much mayhem happening across america in a variety of ways the campaign was interplaying with that. here it feels like the mayhem is in the campaign itself. >> yeah. the '68 analogy doesn't hold because it was coming from richard daily, that's how dan rather got roughed up. in 1964 when the goldwater people took over the campaign, that was a directed illogical
predecessor. david brinkley was told not to wear any nbc gear. they said this was a convention murder rouse in move. i think we can all say that's not too far off of what we're seeing now. >> today there's news that ben carson will be own doorsing donald trump tomorrow. let's just play a little bit of what trump had to say about ben carson when the two of them were vying for first in iowa last year. take a listen. >> he said that he's pathological and that he's got basically pathological disease. so he says he has pathological disease. now, if you're pathological, there's no cure for that, folks. if you're a child molester, there's no cure. they can't stop you. pathological, there's no cure. now he said he was pathological. okay. >> i guess in some way -- level
it's not that surprising to find that carson is going to now go kiss the ring but there's something just dispiriting and depressing about the spector. >> yeah. i think we are attaining the event horizon on campaign rift right here. i mean, there's no other reason for it. ben carson is taking what's left of his reputation that he built up with a truly inspiring life story and just tearing it into small pieces and throwing it up in front of the electric fan. this is more embarrassing than chris christie. i thought that was the bottom of the barrel. i'm beginning to think that maybe there is no bottom to this barrel. >> it also suggests to me when we talk about what is happening right now, both the sort of -- this under current of menace, these actual instances of actual violence, the blythe bullying of the press and then lying about it with no, you know, consequence. they are blieg it, i'm going to
say that on air, they're lying about it. they've been lying about it. that's been obvious and clear to anyone that's reported anything out. that for all the network trump folks, that there's going to be a whole lot more ben cars sons and chris christies as we go forward. >> oh, there's no question about that. they will fall in line. a lot of the people who are making the most noise about #nevertrump right now will fall right in line especially if hillary clinton is the nominee because there's absolutely no way they can stop themselves. they've been working up an abandoned wrath against her for 25 years now. they can't turn it off. >> do you think there's any possibility that we're going to have a debate tonight, republican debate tonight that we will see someone -- last time they all pledged they were going to vote for the nominee no matter who it was. do you think anyone will try to make news by retracting that tonight? >> of these guys? no. i think cruz will tap dance around it. the best chance is rubio because
he's got nothing to lose at this point. he could take out a cream pie and hit trump in the face with it and it wouldn't cost him or gain him any votes at this point. if you want a long shot, i would say he would do it but i don't think anyone will. >> unsolicited last-minute advice, i think he should. coming up, a potential knockout round last tuesday night. plus, the most telling moment from last night's democratic debate and president obama has ideas about the fact that he's responsible for the rise of donald trump. trust me, you will want to hear it. those stories and more ahead.
denying the president's nominee even a hearing. one republican in that room deviated from the party talking points delivering the sobering reality of this obstruction tactic. >> we are setting a precedent here today, republicans are, that in the last year at least of an eight year lame duck presidency we won't support it. support what you're doing, mr. chairman. i want the members of this side to know, if we lose view of wha president to come will be able to do is the same. if it is hillary clinton or bernie sanders and they send over a qualified nominee, i am going to vote for them in this committee and on the floor because i think that's what the constitution envisioned. >> up next, what to expect as the four republicans hoping to replace president obama face off
bit. the texas senator in second place argued that while he's opposed to a brokered convention, the antiquated nominee, he said he might be amenable to a contested convention. >> a contested convention is a different thing where you go if no one gets 1237 and you've got two front-runners, look, reagan and ford battled it out in a tested convention. that's what conventions are for. if you're fighting between the candidates who have earned the votes of the people and it's the delegates that have been elected to do that, that's the way the system works. >> meanwhile, cruz's round of clusters, notably absent from that list, florida, home of marco rubio, because according to the super pacs president, it appears rubio can lose florida all by himself. it seems like the cruz camp isn't taking anything for granted. earlier this week "the national
review" posted a story that cruz will have endorsement from four of his colleagues. a big get and quite surprising considering cruz's reputation in the senate. "new york times" put it back in september, mr. cruz is so unpopular that at one point not a single senator would support his demand for a roll call vote leaving mr. cruz standing on the floor like a man with bird flu. meanwhi meanwhile, they said an earlier version stated that cruz campaign was set to unveil four or more endorsements. the number of senators is not known. senator mike lee, one senator, of utah came out to endorse mr. cruz and said he would encourage our senate colleague, marco rubio, to drop out. earlier this week ms. fiorina endorsed ted cruz. sarah, my understanding is you
yourself are supporting ted cruz now? >> i am. >> so here's the challenge. it seems to me the best chance to stop donald trump is to -- is for people to rally around ted cruz. that's one line of thinking. the other line of thinking is everyone stay in and win the states you can, rubio wins floor darks maybe kasich wins ohio. everybody takes their different pieces of the pie. which of those do you adhere to? >> i think that everyone should unite behind ted cruz not just because he's the best chance for beating donald trump, although i think he is and the only chance of beating donald trump, but because he's the conservative in the race who's shown that he can run a great campaign. he has had his character tested. he has proven to be a great candidate out there. so i do think it's time that we pick ted cruz as the guy we're going with. like carly said earlier this week and i agree with her. >> do you think tonight, tonight there's the debate, right? last time we saw sort of teamup by all the contestants, certainly rubio and cruz on donald trump.
do you think we're going to continue to see that tonight? >> well, i think that you'll continue to see donald trump's record, you know, brought out to light. he doesn't have much of a record. when he does, it's contradictory. he doesn't know his health care plan, then he does, then he takes it back. the same with the immigration issue and with visas. i think we'll see that dumpster fireesque debate like with donald trump. cruz will show he's the conservative in the race. the people of texas trusted him. they overwhelmingly voted for him and i think you'll see why tonight be. >> are there rubio people that are saying cruz is contesting florida? in contesting florida they're acting as a de facto adjunct to donald trump because rubio is the best chance to beat him in florida. ted cruz is sinking money into florida and putting in campaign staff and fighting for florida is essentially paving the way to
trump's nomination. what do you think of that? >> i think the rubio campaign has enough to worry about in their own strat zbi and tactics. they shouldn't mess with other candidates and giving them advice. so far theirs hasn't worked so well. >> do you think ted cruz can plausibly win a general election? >> i do. i think that hillary clinton is a formidable and a flawed candidate. i think when her record is brought to the front, which ted cruz is very capable of doing, contrasted with someone who does have high trust numbers, high accountability that he's brought and shown, keeping his word, i think hillary clinton's got a real problem, both authenticity and trustworthiness. >> i think formidable and flawed -- donald trump -- ted cruz is someone whose politics are -- i think he's right when he says he's the true conservative. he's the true idea owe log. those politics are not shared by a majority of american voters. i think as an empirical matter. and more than that, he seems like someone who every single
person who's interacted with them has basically come away with not liking the guy. that doesn't seem like the best personal quality when running for president. >> there was a lot in there. let me try to unpack it. on the first issue, i don't think you're giving voters enough credit. voters are smart and nuanced. i think they'll see that ted cruz's policies will lift people up and policies for a positive future for the country. i think hillary clinton's policies, we tried for the last eight years and not a lot of people are happy with that. as far as ted's likability. i've known ted for a decade now. ted is a wonderful person and i think that americans will get to know him, particularly in a general election and they'll really start to see why so many of us like him. >> sarah, you just tipped your hand to the great weakness and flaw of the center right as it enters into this general election. i mean this empirically. the approval ratings for the president are the highest since 2013. he has considerably high favorables. i think to the extent the
conservatives go into this election thinking people don't like the last eight years they are going to have a hard time winning. thank you for joining me tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, why hillary clinton is now creating some daylight between herself and president obama. that's next.
so i do not have the same policy as the current administration does. >> you blinked last night, you might have missed one of the most revealing moments in the entire debate, when hillary clinton distanced herself from the current obama administration, specifically the president's deportation policy. over the past couple of months not only did it seem evident that clinton was running to preserve obama's legacy, she has wrapped herself tightly in the current policy. service as secretary of state under obama to defending the president for taking on wall street. and to preserve her standing and cultivate support with black voters particularly while campaigning throughout the south where they make up huge shares of the democratic electorate. what we saw last night was not a calculation based on regional interests, florida, north carolina, two of the five states where democrats will vote on tuesday are in the south, but
rather constituencies who aren't as on board with certain parts of this president's agenda, including the issues, deportations. joining me now, ka thrown vander hovel and joy reid, msnbc national correspondent. if you blinked you missed it, right? >> yeah. >> but because of this period of going through the south where the debate has focused i think hillary clinton very effectively wielded the president as a wedge issue against bernie sanders very effectively, that one moment made me realize that we're sort of in a different phase of the campaign. >> i think the democratic party is in a different phase. the center of gravity hasivity shed. we've seen that in this campaign. it was the first time hillary clinton came out unequivocally against deportation of children but we saw it in michigan where she -- a few months ago she distanced herself from the president on trade. >> right. >> trade has emerged as one of the central issues of this
campaign. it will play out in the next week in those industrial hartland states. chris, you've written about the system failures of elites. for too long the washington elite, beltway consensus has been free trade, free trade. it's ravaged communities and jobs. between bernie sanders and the economic populus, hillary clinton has already moved on that and seen a lot of light between herself and the president. fighting for the tpp which i don't think is going to pass. >> i think you've seen sort of throughout the campaign, it has been more subtle. where hillary clinton does differ from barack obama, where she stops hugging him, it has been to move to his left. she always -- >> that is true. >> -- moves to his left. never to his right. and on immigration she's doing the same thing. she has previously said that she'd be more aggressive on daka and dapa. >> those are the president's actions on protecting people from deportation. >> right. children and parents, elderly parents of people who were
brought here when they were young and children who were brought here. children who were brought here themselves when they were very young. she's always sort of gone to his left a little bit. in florida it's an interesting nuance. there are the various hispanic groups, cuban americans and puerto ricans, have started to align with mexican americans mostly out west on policy including immigration. they are all moving in the same direction and becoming montpelier are like other hispanics. >> this is a key point because we've seen this formation of identity that's been happening. my favorite exit polling data from 2012 is that mitt romney lost asian-americans by 70 points. why would that happen? >> yes. >> what is the coherent, you know, philippine nurse in connecticut and a fourth generation chinese cop in san francisco, the fact of the matter is what we're seeing on the immigration debate, the white backlash of the republican party creates this counter effect. >> yeah. one of my former students who
was indian american. in his family they're quite conservative on social issues. they used to lean republican. when mexican americans they say -- >> we don't want to be on that team. >> let me say something contrarian. there is an area where bernie sanders has more in common with president obama in terms of sensibility, which is foreign policy. foreign policy. sanders and obama by instinct are less interventionist. they worry about the unintended consequences of regime change. they don't want to police the world. they want to rebuild at home. hillary clinton in 2008 said of president obama he was irresponsible and reckless in saying he would talk to iran and cuba without preconditions. she criticized the president saying what was his -- don't just keep it stopped. it's not an organizing principal. it may not be an organizing principal but, hell, do no harm
is not a bad policy. >> here's what's interesting to joy's point. interesting you brought this up. i totally agree with you and i hadn't quite thought of it in that way. whenever she separates from the president there's two ways left. >> correct. >> the reporting that we have about her on foreign policy, when she has separated from him it's more interventionist. >> it's more hawkish. >> that is not something she's highlighted on the campaign trail. katrina is right where the pulse is in that -- >> it's not the finger on the pulse of the party. one of the main reasons hillary clinton did not become the nominee is iraq. you can argue as a woman running to be the commander in chief, she by necessity had to be more margaret thatcheresque. >> she's from new york. >> someone i admired is chelsea gabbert. she endorsed sanders. less against regime change skbl
she's not running for president. >> last night was interesting, when benghazi was brought up. the boos. the real scandal is not what boxed her -- >> the regime change in libya. >> which led to the failed statement. >> that was a perfect moment that encapsulated to me one of the limitations of the foreign policy debate. bernie sanders responded by saying there's an article in "the new york times" and then it was like, then move on. he didn't make the case. >> no, but, chris, you're not going to get any argument from me. i think bernie sanders has not used the opportunity to lay out an alternative foreign policy which i think a lot of democrats, people, citizens see, he didn't do it last night. i also hold the moderators of these debates currently accountable. >> i think it's also true that bernie sanders has not articulated foreign policy as a thing that's important to him. it comes across clearly that there's one thing that's important for him, reining in wall street and income equality.
it comes across that this is not important to him. >> the pentagon, the nsa believes that climate change is one of the big issues of this century. he hasn't connected the dots. >> i agree. when you talk about the questions, chuck todd's question about afghanistan which was a very simple what are you going to do, right? that was his moment where it was like -- now part of the problem is that the answer to any question about foreign policy right now, as laid out in the -- i thought really interested in "atlantic" story piece, barack obama, very hard to articulate any of those in a 30 second answer. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, in case for some reason marco rubio is out of the race by next week, we wanted to make sure we paid him due homage and reviewed his book for our all in candidate book series. marco rubio's "american dreams" is up next. we needed 30 new hires for our call center.
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every single poll out of florida this month has marco rubio losing his home state to donald trump, which means it's time for another installment of our candidate book report series before it's too late. "american dreams restoring economic opportunity for everyone" hit book shelves a year ago. we never got around to it. fortunately jeff carr did. >> i believe the most creative and innovative is uniquely qualified to lift the poor by putting americans on the path to prosperity and self-sufficiency. i hate this thing and i never want to do it. imagine the opportunities that will open up for the american people when economic growth creates jobs, lifts wages and restores hope. rubio's book is filled with these little tautology. imagine the growth will have jobs and jobs will have growth.
imagine the opportunities that will open up once everyone has the opportunity. friends, it's just that easy. this is the ideal marco rubio book. you can't find a big idea in here. you can't also find in a chamber of commerce pamphlet. he adds the words creative and innovate to them. in fact, his big anti-poverty idea is that the biggest turning be factor is single family households. he also uses the same study that rick santorum's book did correlating poverty rates and single parent lats and comparing atlanta to salt lake city. why the difference between the two cities? could there be deep institutional structures that led to an under class in one of them? no, it's a marriage thing. don't read the book. within a few days there probably won't be any reason to anyway. this monday on the eve of the florida primary we will be in marco rubio's hometown
broadcasting live from the bay side marketplace in downtown miami at 8:00 p.m. eastern. if you're by my sl ami, come through and say so. >> they're trying to figure out who is to blame for donald trump's popularity. president obama responds to the fact that his presidency had something to do with it. that's ahead.
while we are all focused on the presidential race and the next big primary, there are other issues on the ballot including a race in illinois, the outcome of which may result in a district attorney paying the price for the way she handled an explosive shooting. anita alvarez became infamous during the case of 17-year-old laquan mcdonald. he was shot 16 times by chicago police back in october of 2014. alvarez waited 400 days to charge the officers accused of shooting mcdonald, jason van dyk, and announced she was doing so hours before the video you're seeing now was publicly released
thanks to a court order. she's yet to bring charges against the other officer at the scene whose reports of the incident did not reflect what the video shows. alvarez has been doggedly and repeatedly confronted by reporters. kim fox spent her childhood in public housing, a sexual assault survivor later earned her undergrad and law degrees and got a job in the state's attorney's office working under alvarez herself. fox is running for that position on an explicitly public platform. this basically never happens in american politics, a would be prosecutor challenging another prosecutor from the left running to end what fox cause the tough on crime boogie man approach. the coverage of black lives matter the last few years, the movement, has focused a lot on police and a lot less on district attorneys but it's
district attorneys who play perhaps the single most central role in both police accountability and mass incarceration. if things are going to change in this country, they're going to need to change at that level. that's the kind of change that will be on the ballot for voters of cook county tuesday. i'm very curious to see what happens.
with donald trump inching ever closer to securing the republican nomination of the republican party, there is a lot of finger pointing about who is responsible for his unpredictable rise. they like to blame the right wing ideology of president obama, many blame president obama himself for the political polarization of the last seven years and for paving the way for trump. today the president answered that. >> i have been blamed by republicans for a lot of things,
but being blamed for their primaries and who they're selecting for their party is not objectively, it's fair to say that -- that the republican political elites and many of the information outlets, social media, news outlets, talk radio, television stations have been feeding the republican base for the last seven years a notion that everything i do is to be opposed, that cooperation or compromise somehow is a betrayal, that maximalist
absolutist positions on issues are politically advantageous. i don't think that i was the one to prompt questions about my birth certificate, for example. i don't remember sake, hey, why don't you ask me about that. and so what you're seeing within the republican party is to some degree all those efforts over a course of time creating an environment where somebody like a donald trump can thrive. >> now, that's the president's account of what's happened, but there are liberals who contend that liberalism itself, at least in its modern incarnation, contributed to the rise of trump and one of those liberals joins me next.
joining me now is thomas frank, the author of "listen liberal, whatever happened to the party of the people." tom, great to have you here. >> it's my pleasure. >> congrats on the book. i've been reading it. you sent me an early copy. it's fantastically written as all products are. >> thank you, sir. >> let's talk about trump particularly in this context. you heard the speech saying you liberals, you get some of the blame for this. why? >> because it basically goes back to inequality and to the sort of larger question of the relationship in the democratic party with the working class,
specifically the white working class. this is a question that goes back to the 1970s, but it's a story that i trace in the book. there's a long back story to this. basically what i end up with is at some point the democrats, kind of elite washington democrats that katrina was referring to a few minutes ago decided that they didn't want to be the party of working people anymore, that really wasn't who they were, that's not who they were about. this took a long time, '70s, '80s, it comes to -- it flowers with bill clinton. who they were instead were a party of the professional class. they're a party of the sort of most accomplished elements of the various professional groups in america. that's who they are, a party of the top ten, specifically of the new economy winners. i like the marco rubio saying. you find the same thing in
democratic books about the creative class, innovation, all of this kind of thing. >> let me stop you there and give a counter narrative, right? you talk about the abandonment of the white working class, the takeover of the democratic party as the sort of professional class, you know, the sort of -- >> yeah. >> -- upwardly mobile affluent. that's not the democratic base of the party. >> right. absolutely. that's a problem. therein lies the problem. >> well, but here's -- the other argument. that's one case. the other case is the people will say, they decided they did not want to be in the party of the civil rights, right? basically that this was a decision that was made not from the top down but really the cleavage point is that the democratic party became forthrightly basically started with lbg and certainly in the era of obama the party of nonwhite american. >> we can -- maybe so, but we can actually and in the book i specifically pinpoint where the democrats made this decision. it wasn't that. it was vietnam. vietnam was the killer.
this was the issue that broke the democratic party. you think about the united ought tow workers, big, big supporters of the march on washington in '63. martin luther king was always doing things in conjunction with -- what was the march in '63 called? >> jobs. >> that was right. it had a big labor component to it. >> yes. >> the civil rights movement always has. >> right. >> specifically vietnam is where the white -- i mean, here in new york there was -- you remember. >> famous moment. >> yes. >> there was a riot in favor of the vietnam war. all of the hard hats in construction jobs. that was really what did it. it was after '68 between '68 and posz 72. the democrats decided to weed labor out of its party. it always was a disastrous move. they lost the election really, really, really badly. they did it for idealistic reasons, reasons that had to do mainly with vietnam. >> you now have a situation and the book gets into this
argument, it's a very complex argument in certain ways. my favorite description of the trump voters was when you can chemistry, free floating electrons on the outer ring. they're not bound for any party. in comes the physical force of trump draws them into the vortex. >> that's good. i like that. i watch these trump rallies with the vast this rongs throngs of . i think trump is a gold-plated buffoon, all of that stuff. i don't think we can dismiss all of his followers that way. >> no. >> i'll tell you what, i watched those -- when i watched the footage of these giant crowds, i think back to decatur illinois, 1994, a left wing moment. it was a labraly and you could see these throngs well. anyway, it's all in the book. read the book. you're going to like it. believe me. >> why did the democrats fail?
>> let me endorse the fact that they're not all horrible people. i've talked to a lot of trump supporters. the guy socking people in the face. >> that's insane. >> thomas frank, thank you for being here tonight. >> that is all for this evening. the "rachel maddow show" is now. we also are going to be joined tonight by elizabeth warren. senator warren looms large in our national politics. its a' basically the other populus hero.