donald trump on those issues right now. they don't need to, because the republicans are doing that job for them. >> and when the less-interested voter goes to vote in november and see that shot about women's looks and women generally, they're going to be affected by that. you don't have to be a politico to get those messages. that does it for us this hour. thank you very much. and i'm chris matthews. "meet the press daily" starts right now. if it's friday, it's a week that started with a major terrorist attack and the likelihood of a big commander in chief test. and yet, it got turned into an unbelievable exchange over candidate wives and the national enquirer. how did we devolve to this? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd in washington. and welcome to "mtp daily" on this good friday. and welcome to bizarre-o world
inside the republican circus for president. in just a few days, how in the world did we go from talking about this -- >> good evening. shock and horror, but sadly, no surprise. belgium, which for four months has been living on age and braced for attack, took two devastating hits today, claimed to be the work of isis. >> to this -- >> you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that'll do it every time. donald, you're a sniveling coward. leave heidi the hell alone. >> and it gets a lot worse, folks. but in the wake of tuesday's deadly attacks in brussels, the terror raids, the global insecurity, a continent in mourning, the killing of an isis commander, it could have been a week where we saw what kind of commander in chief these candidates would like to be portrayed as. and quite frankly, it should have been a potentially terrible week if you're donald trump. he had the makings of a terrible week for him. but instead, we're talking about the looks of heidi cruz, melania trump, and a salacious tabloid
story that doesn't even have a string offette evidentiary trut it. the image you see on the screen was circulated by the trump campaign, which was a response to this ad from an anti-trump group and a pro-cruz super pac run by republican strategist, liz mair, which aimed at the time at mormon voters in utah. trump is holding cruz personally responsible for picking this fight. and by the way, the hit on trump, melania trump, was not exactly above-board, either. both cruz and mair's super pac says it has nothing to do with the ad. but now this is spiraling out of control after trump threatened to "spill the beans" on ted and heidi cruz. and then this morning, "the national enquirer" publishes a sensational story that cruz has repeatedly cheated on his wife. by the way, the only person quoted in the "national enquirer" story is roger stone, former adviser to donald trump.
meanwhile, this response today from ted cruz. >> let me be clear, this "national enquirer" story is garbage. it is complete and utter lies. it is a tabloid smear. and it is a smear that has come from donald trump and his henchmen. >> meantime, as the tabloid story started to take over, trump's spokeswoman, katrina pearson, was asked about what trump's threat to, quote, spill the beans, meant. here's what she told my colleague steve kornacki earlier today about that phrase. >> spilling the beans is quite simple when it comes to heidi cruz. she is a bush operative. she worked for the architect of nafta. and she's a member -- she's been working for goldman sachs, the same global bank that ted cruz left off of his financial disclosure. >> trump's campaign manager then tweeted an article by "the hill" about those comments. it read, quote, trump aide fulfills threat to spill the beans, unquote. then trump put out a statement on the national enquirer story,
reading in part as if he's quoting a mythological idea from lbj. quote, i have no idea whether or not the cover story is true or not. but i had absolutely nothing to do with it. while they were right about o.j. simpson, john edwards, and many others, i hope they're not right about lyin' ted cruz. unbelievable. we should also note that two women have come forward and firmly denied any improper relationship with senator cruz. still, it doesn't matter how many denials are out there, cruz is burdened by the bad behavior of previous presidential candidates who did deny affairs that were later exposed and then they were exposed as hypocrites. so cruz is in this position of being guilty until he can prove being innocent. for many, it's even more bizarre, in that cruz is somehow on the defense today, considering this interview, between trump and "the washington post" editorial board. it is one of the most, frankly, non-lucid things we've read on trump these days. trump ducks question after
question, he rambles a bit, and some of it makes little sense. and it prompted a scathing column from eugene robinson who made this. i won't even get into trump's lengthy defense of the size of his hands. please read the transcript. yet it's cruz who's on the defensive thanks to a supermarket tabloid. we are living in a plit bizarre-o world, folks. and contrast this fight with the way hillary clinton decided to react to brussels today. day after the attack, a lengthy policy speech on national security. yesterday, roundtable discussion at usc. today, the campaign holds a conference call with the press, featuring leon panetta. folks, trump has normalized this very weird phenomenon. hijacking a narrative with outrageous news stories, with a flashy sort of shiny metal object. transforming what normally would be self-inflicted wounds for a candidate into just another day at the office for donald trump. sometimes he seems the to fall into these moments.
like this bizarre show in iowa, where trump re-gained the spotlight from a surging carson campaign by mocking carson's story about finding god as a child, after a misguided attempt to stab a friend. other times, it seems like a planned operation. remember that cnn debate where rubio and cruz threw the kitchen sink at trump over his failed businesses, trump university, his inheritance, lawsuits over hiring undocumented workers, the works, works. in a matter of hours, everyone was talking about this, instead. >> texas, i'm here today to proudly say, i endorse donald trump for president of the united states! america needs someone who's going to make sure that hillary clinton doesn't get within ten miles of the white house! donald trump can do it! >> trump is like a shark. he has to keep moving or he dies. jeb bush called trump the chaos candidate. he wasn't wrong. for trump, the more chaos, the more controversy, the better. i'm joined now by "washington post" correspondent, dan balz. you've covered a lot of presidential candidates. you've covered a lot of
presidential candidates who have had to deal with extramarital affair rumors. in every other case -- and who knows, we may be proven wrong and all this stuff -- and again, ted cruz has the burden of too many lying politicians before him. but there is nothing. there's no string here. there isn't -- like, normally, there's always this, well, there's something. he was here with this person. or there's a videotape there. or there's these text messages. in this case, there's nothing. and yet, it gains traction in this cycle now. >> and very often, by the time it goes into public display, there have been rumors about situations -- >> that the story was about to go public. >> right. and this story has had -- a couple weeks now. >> this story popped -- popped, to everyone's surprise. but as you say, for senator cruz, there is this situation where people have felt that they have been lied to so often by politicians who have been accused of this, denied it, and then, as you said, have been proven that they had done it, that he has to address it. he has to deny it. and yet, it lingers and it
creates -- i mean, i think the more important thing is the point you made in the opener. it creates the conversation that we're having, as opposed to the conversation that we should be having, at this point. >> i want to play, i think, i think i have it -- i think you guys taped it. i think we have a clip here of the editorial -- audio of the editorial board in one of the more bizarre exchanges between "the washington post" editorial board and donald trump from earlier this week. here it is. >> if you could substantially reduce the risk of harm to ground troops, would you use a battlefield nuclear weapon to take out isis? >> i don't want to use -- i don't want to start the process of nuclear. remember, one thing that everybody has said, i'm a counterpuncher. rubio hit me. bush hit me. when i said low energy, he's a low-energy individual. he hit me first. i spent -- by the way, i spent $18 million worth of negative ads on him -- >> this is about isis. you would not use a tactical nuclear weapon against isis? >> can i tell you one thing? this is a very good-looking group of people.
could i go around so i know who the hell i'm talking to. >> so i want to -- you were in that room? >> no, it was only the editorial board. >> did he ever answer the question about nukes and isis? >> he answered it in that one sentence. i don't want to go nuclear. >> that was it? >> that was it. and never came back to it. >> and this is -- >> but that's not atypical of the way he -- >> no. i mean, you've interviewed him many times. >> i know, he can move -- he moves. especially if he doesn't like the question or doesn't have an answer. >> have you ever tried to diagram a donald trump sentence, you would go crazy. >> and you can ask him something three or four times, he will inevitably answer and then he has to walk back that answer. i think he did that for me on legal fees, for the guy who punched the guy in north carolina. if you press, he goes where he thinks we wants to go, but he can walk -- get himself into trouble. >> that, incidentally, came toward the end of that interview and there were other things they were trying to get to, so there was, i think, no time to follow up, follow up, follow up. >> always the case.
it seems every candidate has struggled on how to combat trump, right? do you get in the mud with him? you look worse by doing it. the irony that extramarital affairs are a bigger problem? let's say it is true for cruz. donald trump's personal life has been cataloged in "the washington post" and "national enquirer". >> and yet all of that gets swept aside. he has the ability, not just to thrive in chaos, but to create the chaos. and it seems as though he's always ready to do so at a moment when the campaign either might force attention on him in an unflattering way, or in which he wants to change the subject. >> inevitably, people watching this are going to i is a, how dare you guys cover it at all. and i'll be honest, i feel like we're in this conundrum, as members of the press corps, when it comes to the national -- we all had the -- well, it's "the national enquirer," we're not touching it. now that stuff gets -- well, it's out there. it's in the bloodstream. and candidates feel like they have to respond to it. what are the lines anymore?
what are the rules? >> chuck, there aren't any lines anymore. i go back a long way on this issue for how the press deals with issues of private lives of politicians. and that -- that evolution, which took dramatic turns with gary hart and then with bill clinton, and continues to evolve, i think is partly a reflection of the age we're in. we're in a social media age, we're in the age of twitter. things move quickly. people say whatever they want to say. people make outrageous accusations. they are focused on and then forgotten, focused on and forgotten. something else comes up. we'll be talking about something else in three days and it will seem as though what we're talking about today was months ago. >> it is, and it's just -- >> it's very challenging for us in our business. >> it is, and we're missing context and all of these things. and i know there are screaming viewers out there saying this, we're right there with you. but ultimately, the candidates are choosing to run the way they're running. >> absolutely. >> and at the end of the day,
we're journalists, we're covering the campaign we're covering, not the one we want to cover. >> and it's not just that we're covering the campaign that we don't want to cover or not covering the cain -- >> we're covering the campaign we have to cover, period. >> the campaign is the campaign. >> that's right. >> news the news. you can say this isn't real news, that's correct. but nonetheless, it is the conversation of the campaign. now, are we guilty of amplifying it? probably. and yet, it is very difficult to kind of pull away and try to rebalance constantly to focus on, you know, what donald trump actually said to our editorial board. >> what happens if we ignore it? >> right. >> you know, really, and what we've learned with trump is that there's no -- there isn't a middle ground. it's very hard to find it. >> the other reality is, in the old, old days, you know, the mainstream media was considered gatekeepers. >> yeah. those days are gone. >> those days are long gone. and probably rightly so. i don't have a problem with that. >> it's days like this, though, where i'm guessing a lot of people miss the gatekeeper days. >> probably do. >> especially if this allegation is as untrue as it appears to
be. dan balz. >> thank you. coming up, the latest from brussels as the search for suspects in tuesday's deadly attack couldn'ts. and the latest development in the fight against isis that's separate from brussels. then the backlash in north carolina. state lawmakers roll back protections on the lbgt community. one of the bill's sponsors joins me to defend the law. that's later in this hour. stay tuned. ♪ i love to take pictures that engage people. and to connect us with the wonderment of nature. the detail on this surface book is amazing.
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today ted cruz is focusing on the next big battleground state in the primaries. it's wisconsin. he's already had four campaign stops there since wednesday, a short time ago, cruz even toured lambeau field, home of the packers, none other than kgb, a great former defensive lineman for the packers. and he's expected to arrive any moment to mingle with voters at a green bay restaurant for a friday fish fry. there are 42 delegates at stake in the wisconsin primary. earlier this week, scott walker hinted he would endorse after easter. well, that's sunday. we'll stay tuned on monday.
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and we are back. two major developments in the fight against isis today. a u.s.-led operation killed the terror group's second in command. haji imam was the finance minister for isis and was responsible for plots since the time the group was known simply as al qaeda in iraq. >> a few months ago, when i said i was going to go after isil's financial infrastructure, we started with the storage sites where it holds its cash. and now we've taken out the leader, who oversees all the funding for isil's operations. hurting their ability to pay fighters and hire recruits. >> defense secretary carter would not confirm imam's involvement with the attacks in paris and brussels, but called the death a major blow to isis leadership. and during a raid in schaerbeek today, a bomb disposal team was on the scene inspecting a suspicious object. a security source on the scene said one person was neutralized.
an eyewitness described the harrowing scene. >> they shoot the man, i think, in the leg. i'm not sure, he was not dying. he was moving and the police ask him to put the bag far from him. that's what they do. i'm leaving this building, so, this is my -- i never see that here. in this part of brussels, very quiet. >> the identity of this individual is still unknown. a senior u.s. official confirmed, though, that 2000 u.s.-based individuals were killed in the brussels attacks, but would not give their identities. nbc news confirmed siblings sascha and alexander pinczowski were killed in the attacks. both were dutch nationals who were based out of new york. also today, the belgian federal prosecutor said salah abdelslam, who was taken into custody last friday, refused to make any statements after the attacks in brussels. and secretary of state john kerry visited brussels today, to pay his respects to the victims. our chief foreign correspondent, richard engel, sat down with secretary kerry to talk about is
isis' influence in europe. >> europe's done a lot. and particularly the government of belgium has done a lot. before this event took place, they had already had our foreign fighter surge team here a month ago. they are the ones who apprehended salah abdelslam. that may or may not have initiated this attack. there are also, at least five or six different events that are going to take place in the next months, two or three in april or beyond, that the belgians had previously scheduled. >> i want to go now to ayman mohyeldin, who has been following developments on these isis terror cells in both france and belgium. he joins me now live from brussels. ayman, i guess i want to start, first, are we learning today, considering that abdelslam stopped talking after the attacks, and what john kerry said to richard engel, may or may not have been involved, he threw that in this. that tells me they assume there is a link, do they not? >> reporter: well, they certainly assume that there was a link between the paris attacks
and the belgian attacks on a few different fronts. perhaps most damning of of that or the strongest of that came today when the belgian federal prosecutor confirmed that the dna of the second suicide bomber at the brussels airport, that's an individual by the name of najim laachraoui, his dna was all over the paris attacks. day found his dna on a suicide vest that was worn at the bataclan theater. they found his dna on a suicide vest that was worn by one of the other attackers at the stade de france. they do consider him to be a bomb maker. why that's interesting is because his fingerprints have also shown up and his dna has shown up at other locations here in belgium, at various apartments the police have raided. and because of that, they believe there is a link between paris and belgium, but more importantly, between najim laachraoui and salah abdelslam. now, the interesting thing that we have heard is that salah abdelslam, at first, you know, he was interrogated by french -- sorry, by belgian police for two hours. and then after the attack, was interrogated yet another time for another hour, and did not
provide any information. and he didn't necessarily know that this attack had taken place. they'd kept him under very tight wraps. he doesn't have access to the outside world. so he could not have known about the attacks that had taken place here in belgium. so they are still very confident that there is a link between paris and belgium. >> all right. ayman mohyeldin, on the scene for us in brussels. ayman, thanks very much. i want to turn now to malcolm nance. he's, of course, an msnbc terrorism analyst, former u.s. counterterrorism and intelligence officer. malcolm, good to have you back. i want to first start with something john kerry said in that interview with richard engel. because it didn't ring true. he was basically praising belgium. do they deserve praise right now or -- obviously, it sounded more like diplomatic speak to me. trying to say, hey, let me tell you the good they're doing. but this is a country whose counterintelligence operation seems woefully unprepared for this, is it not? >> i think secretary kerry is
being diplomatic, yes, on some extent. but when you look at it within the picture of the entire global intelligence community, that is a country that is beleaguered. it's a country that has been besieged, even before the paris attacks. i believe that belgian authorities are doing everything that they can. certainly, they have some intelligence shortfalls. they have a very bad intelligence organization. they are taking national-level intelligence from the united states, from nsa, gchq, they're using the french. but i don't think it's unfair to say that. terrorists just have to be one step ahead of you, in order to be successful. and i think the belgian have been kicking down the doors. and in this case, they just accelerated their attack and the timeline, and the leader decided they would do their mission and they were successful. >> it seems, though, isis has been very clever at basically finding the weak links in europe. and right now belgium's a weak link. >> listen, isis, an al qaeda organization, studies the
geopolitical structures of all the lands that they are in. they know, quite, with great levels of detail, what is going on in each country, every day. they plan their attacks, whether they're strategic attacks or they're what we call a qualitative attack, which is a small attack has very small goals. they plan them in accordance of what's going on in the political structures of their nation. their fighters know belgium, because they are belgian nationals themselves and they know how to carry out an attack on the basis of that. >> let me ask you about the other announcement today from the united states, about the death of haji imam, who they put as the number two. call me a -- we hear this a lot. we're very good at getting the number two over the years. was this really a number two? how important would this get? and how much of this should we separate from sort of pr spin? >> well, secretary carter today said that he didn't character him as the number two member of
isis. he characterized him as the chief financial officer of isis. as you recall last year, there was a special mission raid by the national mission forces into syria. and they targeted the chief treasurer of isis, a guy by the name of abu sayyef. he was killed, they took his wife, and everything there is to know about isis' treasury and database, we have been systemically killing off everyone in the senior leadership of isis. it's pretty amazing. i mean, if you were to package it all together, it would be like taking o out the entire united states cabinet. i don't think that there's much spin with regards to this. but killing this man, who was a very old school al qaeda member, he's the -- >> this is real. >> -- there for 14 years. this is -- this is real. and this is going to have some capacity to damage that organization. because his lieutenant is going to be a young guy, who has none of the corporate knowledge. >> and this was always the theory of the cay how they eventually got al qaeda depleted.
obviously, it's morphed into what it's morphed into today, was if you kill enough leaders, eventually, you get some young folks that don't know what they're doing. >> yeah, that's absolutely correct. and better than that, that you get young guys who don't know what they're doing. young operators tend to be rash. they tend to be, you know, they want to shoot from the hip. this new generation of al qaeda, which is now called isis, they are, they are all about the offense. they don't know defense. they don't know how to take on or even, you know, conduct themselves when under pressure. so, they're going to lash out. and lashing out in iraq and syria right now, is like putting yourself in a drone channel. you are just made yourself available for america's own a asymmetric power. i think this is going to really damage them. they're being pressured and have their supply lines cut from syria -- >> you seem pretty optimistic, malcolm. >> i think this is really going
to start crumbling. i do feel optimistic. i think they're going to get it handed to them in the next year. >> malcolm nance, on a good friday, some good news. thanks very much. appreciate having you. up next in the ws, could libertarian candidate gary johnson post the third party threat that some conservatives are hoping threatens trump? we'll see. but the former new mexico governor isn't the only reason donald trump's numbers could suffer in the general election. we'll laook at why women voters have dumping trump, up ahead. if you misplace your discover card,
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removing rubbish and fixing up the headquarters will take a few months, but the rest of the property is now open to the public. now to the where. it's havana whereby the rolling stones and the people of cuba are spending the night together for the first time. thousands are expected to attend tonight's stones concert, tapping a huge week of international visits to cuba. now to the when, it's sunday. and you know what that means. if it's sunday, and easter sunday, then it will be an all-nbc news trail reporter panel on "meet the press." the whole team of correspondents, mitchell, hallie jackson, kristen welker, katy tur, four of our tremendous, and a few that aren't there, they'll be back. they've been on the show before, and i'll have interviews with bernie sanders and john kasich. don't miss it. now to the why. there's been lots of talk about a possible anti-trump candidate. a new monmouth university poll has former new mexico governor gary johnson pulling at 11% as t libertarian candidate in a race against trump and clinton. he was the libertarian candidate in 2012 and won over a million
votes nationwide. the anti-trump protest vehicle may already be in the garage. gary johnson will be on the show monday to talk about his campaign. we'll be right back. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me, and you're talking to your rheumatologist about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection.
this week, north carolina republican governor pat mccory signed what is being seen as some as a controversial new law that restricts some lbgt protections in his state. the new law now prevents any local government from enacting non-discrimination ordinances, based on sexual orientation and gender identity. now, the bill became law in a whirlwind fashion after the republican-controlled legislature called a special one-day session on wednesday. that happened in response to an anti-discrimination ordinance that was passed in the city of charlotte. that city ordinance provided protections based on sexual
orientation, including allowing transgendered individuals to use a bathroom of their choosing. now, opponents of charlotte's measure argued it was unsafe, because it could allow men to enter women's restrooms. now, we saw similar argument play out in houston last year, when opponents struck down a so-called bathroom bill, saying it would have allowed sexual predators into women's facilities. north carolina's controversial bill, known as hb2 passed easily on wednesday, with unanimous support from republicans, 11 democrats in the statehouse across party lines and voted for it as well. in the senate, the 11 democrats in the state senate walked out of the chamber in protest of the bill, which led to a 32-0 vote. the bill was debated, passed, and on the governor's desk in less than nine hours. but the new law goes much further than just striking down the charlotte provision on bathrooms. it also bans individuals from using public restrooms that do not correspond with the gender stated on their birth certificate. it blocks cities from allowing transgender individuals to use
public bathrooms for the sex they identify with, and it declares that state law override all local ordinances concerning wages, employment, and local accommodati accommodations. keeping charlotte or any other city from adding any new anti-discrimination protections, period. civil rights groups say they are exploring some legal options. and many companies who do business in the state, like american airlines, apple, bank of america, paypal, lowe's, dow chemical are denouncing this new law. and it's not just businesses. the nba says its 2017 all-star game scheduled to be played in charlotte, home of the hornets, owned by michael jordan, could also be impacted. and it could cost the state future ncaa events. the college sports governing body says it is, quote, monitoring current events there. you might remember, the ncaa was one of the first organizations to speak out against what was deemed a religious freedom law in indiana last year.
that law allowed bidses to refuse service to lbgt individuals on religious grounds. under intense pressure from inside and outside his state, indiana's mike pence signed a revigs to make clear the law could not be used to discriminate based on sexual orientation or gender identity. it's not just north carolina and indiana, where this fight is playing out, by the way. arizona governor jan brewer vetoed a similar law in her state in 2010. and a tennessee house committee struck one down just yesterday. georgia is also considering a religious freedom measure that critics say would allow for the same type of discrimination as they claim this north carolina law allows. now, the bill was passed by the legislature and awaits georgia governor diehl's signature. dell, time warner, sony pictures, and comcast have urged the governor to veto the bill. joining me now from charlotte,
north carolina, with on the north carolina bill. i don't want to get everything confused here. one of the primary con spores of hb-2, state representative dan bishop. thanks for coming on, sir. >> glad to be with you, chuck. >> so it is my understanding, read everything about this bill, reading your press release, other press releases about it, the -- if you read just the press about it, the bill was about a specific ordinance in charlotte, the bathroom issue. but this bill went farther than that. why not just target the charlotte law? why did you go further than just rescinding this particular ordinance in charlotte? >> it's funny how misimpressions get started, chuck. under our state constitution, we can't pass a local act on matters of business regulation. we have to pass statewide laws. so what we did was restore common sense, given that charlotte had allowed the protections of safety and privacy for women and girls in bathrooms and locker rooms to be
subverted, we restored that and restored common sense. and we did it on a statewide basis. your lead said that we terminated authority for cities to do this, in north carolina, cities have to have authority delegated to them to be able to act in certain -- in particular areas. there is no delegation of authority. so, we clarified the fact that they do not have the authority that they were exercising in charlotte's case. and in doing it statewide, one other thing we had to fix, they took an old ordinance, a 1968 ordinance, that had various protections, it was passed under similar circumstances, it had never been controversial, because it echoed federal law, and they changed it in a way to make a bathroom privacy sacrificed. and we took all the protections in that ordinance that had pre-existed and we put them in state law. so we fixed it very well. i was very proud of the legislation. >> do you believe your bill, though, prevents discrimination
against gays and lesbians in north carolina? >> it has all -- >> you don't think you've rescinded protections? >> absolutely not. in fact, we work very hard. the reason is bill is such a piece of architecture, is we've worked very hard to preserve every piece of protection that north carolina law, or charlotte law, provided before the city city council went off the cliff, and opened up bathrooms to -- women's bathrooms to men. >> let me ask you this. what should be the line, on somebody who's transgender? let's take caitlyn jenner. which bathroom is she legally -- would she legally be allowed to use in north carolina? >> well, you know, that's another thing, in your lead that wasn't actually correct. our law only governs the way bathrooms will be conducted in public buildings. and in school buildings. and in those circumstances, it says that there'll be male and female bathrooms and they'll go there.
it also allows unisex single occupancy facilities and it has a number of exceptions, if someone needs to be assisting someone. private businesses, that's another thing, in terms of the state -- the notion that the state law undermined discrimination protections is absurd. the private businesses now are free, if they have a policy where they choose to have multiple occupancy, unisex bathrooms, they can do that. we aren't preventing anyone from taking that course. >> let me just go back to the initial question. and i'll put it in state buildings, which restroom is caitlyn jenner legally allowed to use? >> well, i don't know all the details about caitlyn jenner, but under north -- what governs it is the birth certificate sex. but if someone, under north carolina's pre-existing law, if someone has sex reassignment surgery, they're entitled to have their birth certificate changed and they'd be able to go
into the opposite bathroom. >> now, how do you -- how do you -- how do you -- how do you control for this? how do you -- how do you check? i mean, i guess -- >> well -- >> i mean, how do you patrol for that? you know, how do you check to see if somebody's following the law? >> yeah. the question is one of custom. in other words, what charlotte said to businesses throughout charlotte was -- and i've lived in charlotte for 50 years, and what they said is, if you have a business this charlotte, you may not have separate sex bathrooms. you must allow people to go in bathrooms. and what they're seeking to do is undermine a custom that people have a sense of privacy in privacy facilities. and in some people who are very concerned about, even the safety of people, once you kind of sunder all of that. that's the issue. it was just common sense. and charlotte, as i say, went off the cliff.
so we fixed that -- >> bathrooms are private. when i use a men's bathroom with other men, i expect privacy from other men. i mean, isn't privacy an expectation of using the restroom? i guess, the idea that you have to pass a law to force privacy here? >> it is -- it is amazing it was necessary to pass a law. and it wouldn't have been necessary to pass any law if charlotte hadn't done what they did. >> but i guess, why pass -- why pass a law if there wasn't a perceived problem? have you had anybody complaining? had there been any incidents? >> oh, yes -- >> i'm just asking. >> oh, we had had thousands and thousands of complaints. one of the leading television stations in the state did a poll that indicated 66% -- i never see a 66% answer -- wanted us either to override this ordinance or subject it to a public referendum. there was a tremendous outcry. and before they did it, i cautioned them. i said, you're going to produce -- this is very divisive. you're going to produce a turmoil in charlotte. and that's the last thing we need. and that's exactly what happened. >> what do you say to the ncaa,
the nba, who are threatening boycotts? >> well, i -- look, charlotte is on the top five list in the country. every top five list of site locations, of places to do business, of economic growth. it would be -- if a business were to attack the people of north carolina, particularly where two-thirds of them favor a position, and take the opposition position, that you have to have that men and women's bathrooms in order to get our business, then i think they would be utthurting themselves. i think that would be a shame. but north carolina has great things ahead. we've laid the foundation for tremendous business growth. and we're experiencing that. charlotte is the leading business city in the country, in a state that is the leading business in the country. i think that would be ill-advised. it would be an unorthodox marketing policy for any business to take the position they're going to attack north carolinians. >> there are some gay and lesbian advocates who believe this bathroom issue is being
used as way to roll back protections against gay and lesbians. this is -- this transgender bathroom issue is being used as way to roll back protections that were there for gays and lesbians. what do you say to that? >> those who would dis honestly attack this law, they -- the problem for them is they want to carry the argument that men should go into bathrooms and locker rooms with girls and women. that's -- that's an impossible burden for them to bear. so they're just dishonest about it. but they can point to no protection that's been rolled back. the protections in charles' ordinance, we've preserved them. in fact, they're broader than federal law, protections and public accommodations against discrimination. and we have expanded those statewide. there is nothing that we've cut back. nothing at all. >> all right. state representative, dan bishop, appreciate you coming on and sharing your views. thank you, sir. >> thank you, chuck. >> you go it. well, donald trump's support
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how is donald trump teflon coated even more? none of this will reverb verb on to him. >> you find it in the weirdest places, mud, ending today with the national enquirer in this whole thing. he seems to thrive amid mud. or he doesn't sink, right? he kind of -- he either stays neutral or thrives, whereas everybody else we've seen, jeb bush, rubio, when you try to get down to donald trump's level, you lose. so i'm not sure that this works. >> what do you do if you're ted cruz. >> is this episode a rerun? we've had this exact same conversation since last summer. >> no, just a new candidate. now it's ted cruz. >> maybe this will, maybe -- he gets increasingly in knock lated.
the nmore outrage and the fallot hits everyone else. >> donald trump, whose marital in fidelity has been cataloged in new york city, is now going to, like benefit from rumors about ted cruz. >> just think about the week in which this has taken place, too. we're saying we're ending the week in the national enquirer. well, we really have to be serious, and people realign. you had the speaker of the house calling for civility, on the same day that this started as well. neither external events of devastating terror attack in brussels, knocking off the ability to do this, and to get all of his supporters talking about these unsubstantiated rumors. >> i guess, and i know that ted cruz is paying the price for so many previous lying political hypocrites before him, okay,
where and so he is guilty until proven innocent. but there is more that ties donald trump, trump's relationship with the national enquirer, the fact that "the national enquirer" -- you could make more circumstantial evidence of his planning a story versus -- there is no facts to back up the allegations. >> although "the national enquirer" usually has something to hang their hat on. >> although if we weren't far down the road, you know, chuck, they've been right about a lot of things. let me detail to write about. >> when did you stop beating -- >> right. >> that's what trump did to cruz. >> there is no evidence about the allegations of ted cruz, and ted cruz -- >> not even a string. i'm looking for a thread. >> you and dan were talking about this earlier. you know what the deal is with that. for months and months, sometimes there is a truth. >> there is some strand.
>> no thread. >> yeah, nothing there. >> i mean, there wasn't for bat boy, right? you can't say that there was some glimmer of truth of that, as far as we know to this. >> great reference. >> so when trump does. >> she won the lid. >> when trump does these things, he is reenforcing the narrative. ted cruz' appeal with the people who -- the republican party who like him, he is the conservative, moral guy. it started with lyin' ted from his supporters, as though it's the man's christian name. >> low energy jeb. >> and taking him at cruz. >> sense ince he started callin that, he holds up his bible and lies. donald trump we know is a -- he is not a hypocrite.
>> i love when he -- >> he brings everyone down to his level. >> hasn't he been proven right? >> i think you'll look back on this. we've all talked about there on air, off air, political and not political people, you're going to look back and think in june, july, august, maybe september, 2015, that was the time. i really believe it's too late. i just -- the people who are for him are for him. none of this stuff impacts. what does it do. it tarnishes the other people. we've talked about this. he is in a strong position. >> here's the reason republicans have to fight this. if it goes down the wrong path, it will define the party for a generation. >> the party has already fallen apart. there is no out come for this thing that doesn't involve -- >> not any more. that's right. >> either you have trump nomination, which has already splintered the party, or a contested convention, which is also a disaster. >> or nominate cruz, with say not --
>> the base of the party having stolen the nomination from the voters. >> he's not, did you. >> he has flat lined in terms of his share of the vote. >> he is not gaining any momentum. >> and neither is ted cruz. i have to go. thanks again. molly wins with batboy. >> i have to come better armed. >> you can make better references. if it is sunday, it's "meet the press." steve kornacki picks up our coverage now. good evening, i'm steve kornacki, the big news on the fight against isis and the terror. the pentagon now says handling g -- haji eye ma'am, baghdadi, he died in