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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBCW  March 25, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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and one level below that. there's just these two guys. a $7 million reward for the head ofko haram in nigeria or the same reward for the guy they just got. i know it's hard to keep these guys straight but there are only two guys in the whole world for whom the u.s. is offering a $7 million reward. the head of boko haram and this guy who they say they just got from the top leadership in isis. the only isis leader more valuable as a target is the head of isis, the guy who's declared himself the khalif. and i don't know if anyone's going to get the $7 million reward for this guy they got. but apparently the way they got him was u.s. special forces dropping out of helicopters to intercept the vehicle he was
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traveling in, in iraq and now they say he's dead. isis is capable of carrying out complex attacks in the west when they send their trainees to places like brussels and paris but they do seem to be under duress at home and syria and losing land around sinjar and now their highest profile leadership getting checked off this very short american list of the most wanted men in the world. thanks to congress, this is an unauthorized and undeclared war that we're fighting isis but tonight that war got a big one. and now live coverage, including tonight's bernie sanders's rally in seattle. i am arie and as mentioned, we're waiting for bernie sanders to take the stage at a campaign rally in seattle, washington. he's expected to speak momentarily. he's attempting to basically
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stage what would be the biggest rally of his campaign so far. you're looking at live pictures there. 7:00 p.m. on the west coast. safeco field, a major league baseball stadium. it seats more than 50,000 people. 50,000 seats. and there are right now at 702:00 in seattle, thousands still waiting to get in. i'm going to bring it to you. earlier today, bernie sanders turned out 11,000 people in portland, oregon. tomorrow of course a big day for the bernie sanders campaign, as well as hillary clinton. that's because of those three states caucusing. washington, where bernie sanders is plus hawaii and alaska. another 35 in hawaii and 20 in alaska, all three states were victories for president obama in 2008. he had a strong caucus strategy. something bernie sanders is trying to develop and use tomorrow. the latest national poll gives a
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statistical tie between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. bernie at 49% of likely democratic voters, clinton at 48%. and in another big western state that matters, california, clinton leading at 48% compared to bernie's 41%. and today's rally followed a traditional sanders' tone of income equality, and if you haven't seen it, you have a to see it. >> now, you see this little bird doesn't know it -- [ applause ] i know it doesn't look like it but that bird is really a dove asking us for world peace. [ applause ]
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no more wars. >> hearty applause there. now both democratic candidates have spent the week talking about war and peace. hillary clinton said this at a homeland security round table at the university of southern california last night. >> we cannot give in to panic and fear. it's not in keeping with our values, it's not effective in protecting us. and it plays into the hands of terrorists. who want nothing more than to intimidate and terrorize people, turn against each other, which leads to radicalizing more people and creating even greater problems for us. >> that's hillary clinton hitting somber notes in a week that's had all kinds of political rangling.
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again, what's going on right now, the reason we're in special live coverage is this rally in seattle. i've got danny freeman, who's been traveling with the sanders' campaign for msnbc. and we're looking at what is potentially their largest rally and tell us what you're seeing right now. >> we're out here in safeco field and i imagine you're looking at the picture of the set up right here. you can see already that at least half of this bottom section is completely filled and they're still moving people in. we're getting reports that there are as menany as 8 thousandle,0 waiting to get in. and the they have been cranking all evening to get as many people in.
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one thing you can't see is right behind where the press is seated, the entire bottom area behind home plate is completely filled up back here. it's certainly a big crowd. i don't know if they are going to fill the stadium. i don't think the campaign believes they'rie going to fill the 50,000 seat. >> and this is a part of the country that sanders has done well in. is this a get out the vote event or more of a sell celebratory r? what is the political plan here? >> it's interesting. one of the reasons the sanders' -- and this is even from the early days of iowa -- their main goal, main way of selling their candidate is by putting him in front of as many people as possible. a very clear distinction between the way his campaign is going versus hillary clinton who does
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a lot more intimate, smaller settings with round tables. that's not how senator sanders' campaign feels is his biggest strength. they want him in front of us. as many people as possible as they feel that's going to be a winning strategy for them, especially coming into this all important state of washington. >> danny freeman speaking to us from seattle where we're looking at the lines and the crowds there at safe co field. and i want to bring in our correspondent and sometimes, guys, the pictures are the story. so, our viewers are only going to hear you but not view you. you think about donald trump who boasts about the size of his crowds although he's on a six to eight day break. that may be a sign of strength or over confidence but he is not out there right now. bernie sanders, as we look that
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pictures, he's out there and saying hey, this campaign isn't over. if you don't believe me, look at all these democrats. >> no, the campaign is not over and he's bringing incredible dine nanism to this race. i am someone who has indorsed hillary clinton. i always think it's important to say that but i really enjoy and applaud what senator sanders has done. i think he should go to california. crowds don't necessarily turn into voters. they probably will tomorrow. he does very well in the caucus states. burt i think the real trick for him is can he win a big state that is an election state, not a caucus state. except for michigan, we haven't seen that yet. we'll see. >> this a very big deal. that has been bernie's strength to have events where there are really, really big crowds.
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and joan's right, we have to see whether that translates into big wins. the delegate math is he needs large margins of victory to have a shot at catching up with hillary clinton. we all know bernie's been somewhat critical of president obama but it's also an interesting story. 30e president obama is at a baseball stadium and bernie is at a baseball stadium. we love baseball. these numbers -- if he fills up safeco field, one would think that would translate. but historically, people been complaining about super delegates lately. they exist because there were candidates in the past like mcgovern who drew big crowds and translated to practically nothing in the general election and this is a little bit different. i think that the crowds help
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bernie. i agree that the pictures do tell the story and i agree with joan. my position is blue no matter who. >> well, mine too. >> and at this point i feel pirpir bernie has been a great value to this race. i think he has pushed the argument and the conversation to the left and i think he ought to stay in and go all the way through and then see. one other thing i'll say very quickly. even if the math is against him catching up, the math may be on his side to prevent secretary clinton from getting 2383 before the convention and if it goes down to the super delegates making the decision, then i think we going to have somewhat of a contested convention in philadelphia. >> you say you're blue all the way. seattle is not just blue versus red. this is a part of the country that also has red.
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you have green party members of the city counsel. you have socialists. this is not part of the country like other parts of the country where bernie has had to first introduce or explain and inoculate against concerns he's too far left. president obama did very well. i grew up in seattle and i used to go to the king dome, which was an uglier stadium. it is no small matter for anyone in and around seattle to say whether you're filling the field or getting over halfway. hillary clinton might ultimately get a lot more votes this democratic primary and the enthusiasm piece is there's a view, fair or not, that she couldn't go halfway through safeco field right now. >> as baseball fans and politic fans, you know the largest rally ever held in a baseball field was 1968 for gene mccarthy at fenway and we all remember
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president mccarthy very well. we don't really remember president nader. >> that's going to be hard for some people. >> hurtful. i know. it doesn't necessarily translate into votes. i don't see her not getting there with the number of delegates she needs but i've been surprised before. >> and look at pennsylvania where hillary clinton has a 25 point lead over bernie sanders. one of the other points is not just pro-clinton or ant anti-sanders. a lot of the states she argus, you need do better. the swing states and southern states and president obama proved in virginia which hadn't gone democratic since lbj. and it's a combination of black voter turnout in places like virginia or north carolina coupled with some sort of economic progressivism.
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the argument being that hillary clinton from these state numbers is only doing well -- is -- that bern bernie's only doing well in places that matter less in the general. >> and the bernie people are saying hillary is only doing well in state that are going to go red. >> so, why care. >> the confederacy, which is not the best way to put it. >> that's not a characterization i would use because those voters are still relevant. you don't want to suggest those states, those voters, especially african american voters are irrelevant. but it's a new game with new rules. nothing else applies like it has before. this is 2016, it's very, very different. and i think bernie has energized a generation of democrats that is going to go to the convention and be involved and i think they'll be in a position to make
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demands. i used to be young. i was involved in jesse jackson's campaign in 1984 when i was a junior in high school. we went to that convention with demands. and some were met, some were not. this is the same thing. and it was young people. >> we're going to hear more of what we're looking at again, awaiting bernie sanders rally in a 50,000 seat stadium in seattle, which could be the biggest rally in this whole primary. and we'll be back right after this break. hold onto that.
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on the west coast, 10:16 eastern. this is what the bernie sanders campaign says may be the largest rally he's held the entire primary and they say it's key to the three caucuses they're fighting hillary clinton in tomorrow as well as a sign that democrats gathered there in that stadium don't want this primary election wrapped up anytime soon. bernie sanders will be coming out shortly to speak and we'll carry his remarks live. you're watching msnbc. soup and sandwich and cannonballs and clean and real and looking good and sandwich and soup and a new personal best. and a little help and soup and sandwich and study group. good, clean food pairs well with anything. try the clean pairings menu. at panera. food as it should be.
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trolling for a gig with can't blame you. it's a drone you controlwit, which controls your thumbs, which control this joyick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you. yeah that's probably safer. ok, cool. welcome back. you're watching msnbc and more specifically, you're watching live at safeco field. bernie sanders is going to give remarks at what his campaign says may be one tof the largest if not the largest rally they've
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ever had. and the shots in tof thousands people waiting to get into this event. it was bill saided to start 20 minutes ago, but they're still filing in. and i have a great panel as well as -- can you hear me danny, on the phone? >> yes. >> you've been doing one of the jobs that's one of the most exciting jobs for young journalists is you go to every single bernie sanders event rain or shine. so, let's start with your live-in context, at least in terms of veteran status, you've been to more of these events than a super fan and i see someone approaching the microphone in the middle of the baseball field as we're listening and watching. why don't you tell us how
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today's events measures up to the others you've been to. >> it's unlike any event i've been to yet. bernie sanders brings eenormous crowd in denver, colorado a couple of weeks ago. another crowd in salt lake city before the utah contest as well where he won by a giant margin. but the baseball field is a new venue. that is for sure, for the sanders' campaign. and i heard discussing the politics and baseball stadiums. there's people eating hot dogs topped with every topping you can think of and beer's flowing. it's a very joyous and exciting feel out here. and they're still working to file people in. there are people in tents out on the street so early this morning
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they were waiting in line to get in and they're still trying to get those people through all of the magma she machines they're to screen people. it will be interesting to see if bernie sanders waits for the crowd or if he comes out before night hits. >> hot dogs are an unsurprising appearance here. it was also, again, i'm going to dig into my seattle memories here. but there was a very famous hot dog thrower who worked at the king dome and would always toss the stuff. but it does go politically to some of the fun people have at the bernie events. we saw where the bird lands and there's a festive atmosphere. >> and now there's beer. >> i would question whether some of that comes from the fact that this is a man who doesn't have
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to worry about becoming president. >> i don't think people are thinking about it. i might be agreeing with you by saying that. but i don't think they're saying he's not going to win, so let's drink beer. i think they think it's possible and what's more important is they're part of a movement. and there's something correct about that. movements are what changes america. they're part of a movement that it if it lasts can change america. the question is what does it mean to last? part of what it means is to get the voters into the polling booths on days with actual elections not just going to caucuses. which is also kind of a joyous thing that if you've got a big enthusiastic group of people you do better there. and i think the question is kind of what comes next? can he start filing these people into the real polls and does he start inspiring a generation of
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people to run for city counsel, congress. i know it's happening a little bit and does he start party building? does he decide i'm going to take the democratic party over? >> he's not always been committed to the democratic party. >> not at all until now. >> we usually talk about when the opposition party of whoever controls the government. this is a candidate running against hillary clinton and we're looking at taped footage in the lower right and the live shot on the left, waiting for him to come out. bernie sanders is someone who hasn't taken many of the cheap shots. for democrats frustrated for attacks on the hillary clinton, he has skipped most of that and focussed on policy. >> he most certainly has and we know his history. he's caucused with the democrats
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for years. this is a movement now. i think he's going to be hard pressed to keep the movement alive and it's not going to be as simple as just if he doesn't get the nomination. if he doesn't as just endorsing hillary clinton. because you don't want to lose that energy. it has to go to somewhere. i actually think this is somewhat of a continuum from what happened in occupy. >> and you see the people there awaiting bernie sanders and some of that excitement. we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll have more from this live rally and from bernie sanders when he speaks. out on the town or in for the night, at&t helps keep everyone connected. right now at at&t, buy the new samsung galaxy s7 and get one free.
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you are looking at live footage of safeco field on a beautif beautiful, beautiful friday night in seattle, washington. 10:30 where we're coming to ayo live on the east coast. and bernie sanders is basically running late because his campaign says they have so many thousands of people trying to get into safeco field which hold as maximum of 50,000 people. there is a ton, a ton of people in there, especially in that lower basin. i've got danny freeman, who travels with the sanders campaign, on the phone, as well as thompson and walsh here. but danny, thinking about the races tomorrow in washington, hawaii, what's the energy there
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right now? >> reporter: i mean, the energy is just excitement. there's excitement and enthusiasm which basically comes with the majority of sanders' events. but it certainly is today. a baseball field is often a community event and this is a large community of people who are coming together to have their friday night out, have a beer and support bernie sanders. and there's one interesting thing. they're still waiting for people to come through all the security. the reality is we would cover huge bernie sanders events the last summer and fall 2016 and getting those 10s of thousands of people into the venus wasn't as hard back before they had secret service. i think they underestimated the challenge it has been now that they have secret surervice of actually stacking these crowds
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like they're used to. even in smallerpl places like vancouver, washington, they couldn't process them fast enough and get them into the building fast enough. so, it will be interesting to be see that's why it's taking so long to get the people to fill into the stadium. it really is a new style of campaigning for this campaigner from vermont. >> and the lines wrapping around safeco field which look like patient but very long lines of people. and people think of campaigns ss being run by the candidates and when the secret survervice comen and we're looking at a zoom shot of people dancing, and when i worked for the kerry campaign,
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the day they added the secret service, everything changed and the trade offs they made of we're going to do this, this way, when the service says no, that's it. >> that's the end of it. and i saw a crowd in phoenix the day before the election. it was 96 degrees, people were lined up around the block and it took forever to get them in at a time when you really didn't want to be standing in the hot sun. so, the secret service really changes everything you're doing and she's had it from the beginning, obviously, so very tough. >> and this rally is a kick off to what will be it washington state caucus tomorrow. the other big prize is hawaii. a hawaii congresswoman and veteran, who actually resigned from her official post because she wanted to pick sides and go for bernie sanders. she has a big ad running in hawaii.
tv-commercial
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let's take a look at that. >> i felt a sense of duty and i could not in good conscience stay back here in beautiful hawaii and watch my brothers and sisters in uniform go off into combat. these are people and friends who we never forget. bernie sanders voted against the iraq war. he understands the cost of war; that that cost is continued when our veterans come home. bernie sanders will defend our country and take the trillions of dollars spent on these interventionist regime change unnecessary wars and invest it here at home. >> that's the argument from a very credible val dater on those military issues and in a week and time period where there's a big debate about how we deal
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with terrorism and donald trump saying less nato against the back drop of a republican race increasingly in the gutter and not about issues. >> you know, i think that also speaks to the power of the movement that has come from this. and again, as i was saying, as a continuum. i mean, we've always had an anti-war movement. that's why the vote in iraq war is so relevant. people are still realing from that war. and so, as long as you have that sentiment out there, someone like bernie sanders can not be hawkish, can be more dovish, as the bird seemed to suggest. people are saying the bird confirmed that bernie is a dove and he's blessed and all that.
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that can happen for him but to me, it's encouraging that there still is a strong anti-war sentiment and movement especially at a time like this when everybody wants to call for more military action. that's not to say we don't mourn what happened in belgium or we don't empathize but we still want to be able to say we don't need anymore war. >> and as you're speaking and making important points, i believe, if my eyes aren't mistaken. i think it's jeff weaver, the campaign manager. so, he's taken the stage here at safeco field. let's see if we can hear a bit of this. thanks so much is the bit we heard. that's how you know it's live tv, folks. there is no coordination with the sanders' campaign, there's only watching like everyone else and weaver telling folks to stay
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tuned. and bernie sanders soon to come out and speak. we'll be back right after this break. isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnan or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today.
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potentially one of the largest rallies. safeco holds up to 42,000 people to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain...
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♪uh oh. oh. henry! oh my. good, you're good. back, back, back. (vo) according to kelley blue book, subaru has the highest resale value of any brand. again. you might find that comforting. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. . you're looking at live pictures of seattle, washington, safeco field where bernie sanders is expected to steak the stage any moment. and he's got plenty of excited fans dancing around. joe conley, a long time political reserver at the
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seattle post intelligencer is joining us by phone. what are you thinking of this? >> bernie is clearly the favorite here tomorrow in the caucuses tomorrow. the clinton campaign has made a round of it but this is quite a movement here. >> how does this crowd compare to what you've seen before in the state? because you've been writing politics there for a long time. >> i expect bernie's voice to sore a great deal more than many of the line drives hit in this very cold stadium in april. >> all right, joe conley from the seattle post intelligencer from inside the rally. you look at this, bernie expected to come out momentarily. we just saw weaver's campaign manager. and they look pretty fired up.
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>> i put my glasses on because you said it's all about the picture. that crowd is happy, dancing, and having a lot of fun. and it's a great night for bernie sanders. >> the lower basin is pretty full. the upper decks don't look full to me from what i can make out. >> no, but i think that's very, very impressive to have that lower basin full and as you can see that's a pretty dense crowd. >> that's a lot of people. >> and that's well into the five figures and what other candidate is drawing those kinds of crowds right now? again, the challenge is going to be translating those into votes tomorrow and if necessary votes in november and that's one of the riddals that historically has been difficult to solve but in 2016, maybe the bernie people
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know how they're going to get done. >> we compare this to obama and he had the crowds. unprecedented crowds but the thing that obama also had was the african american vote and he had a lot of, not all of but a lot of big industrial states and that is what is eluding senator sanders and that's continuing to be a problem. that crowd, to me, even with my glasses on looks fairly white, very white. seattle's pretty white. but again, the real test for senator sanders is really can he reach the very diverse multiracial democratic party base? and i don't think we're going to see that. hawaii will be interesting but in general, this weeksd will not be a test of that. >> and they obviously got there early if they're that far in front. and coming out soon, according to his campaign manager.
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and your thoughts as we look over this crowd? >> i think one thing that's really important to recognize is we're seeing a very, very large crowd and after bernie sanders' essentially been counted out. the media has been recognizing, correctly, that at this point it's mathematically improbable to secure the nomination. he would needed to have won every state by 60% but then he lost arizona and even with that, we're still seeing these people this passionate about him and willing to come out in this mass. and i think that's a really big deal. >> to you base it on your time in the field as all about bernie and his enthusiasm or for hillary clinton who is this well known and has run this now twice and is basically gurding for, as
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you say what everyone expects mathematically to be the nomination. do you see that problematic for her if there are this many people gathering as dusk falls or in the polls, people who aren't sold on her and it's late in the calendar. >> i actually just finished a story on the emerging bernie or bust movement that's going to come out on yahoo tomorrow and they're akin to the people in 2008 pumas. >> did we see many? i felt like the media talked about them and then there was a big turnout and alliance for obama. >> you got to my next point which is they made a lot of noise in 2008. they clearly didn't stop obama. and in my analysis, i found both
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twitter and facebook, there are only about 100,000 people declaring themselves as bernie or bust and clinton's favorability is in a similar place as obama's at the same time she can't discount this evident enthusiasm on the left wing of the democratic party and i don't think they have ignored it. we have seen clinton shift to the left on a couple of issues and i think that pre-emptively eased the threat she could face. >> thank you to hunter walker for joining us. i will tell viewers that while bernie sanders may not be in the white house yet, this event has one white house tradition going, which is we have been getting an alert and heads up that the principal, that the speaker is imminent and about to come out and it hasn't quite happened. but i want to share it with our viewers. i have one of those heads up. we think we can take a quick
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break and when we come back, we'll see bernie sanders soon, we're told. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. every day you read headlines about businesses being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount.
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we're building what we learn back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer. we have an event well underway now. we have been telling you that any moment bernie sanders was going to come out. we're now looking at his introducer there at safeco field in seattle, washington about 7:49 p.m. local time. the introducer has told folks bernie sanders is coming out next. this is after his campaign manager said even though there are delays at this massive rally at safeco field which holds 50,000 people that bernie was imminently going to come out and speak. so, we're going to bring you bernie sanders live. i would guesstimate that's within two to three minutes. we're going to take a quick
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break and bring you that rally right after this. there are two billion people who don't have access to basicanking, but that is changing. we can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations with nothing but a phone and a tablet. everywhere where there's a phone, you have a bank. now a persons able to start a business, and employ somebody for the first time. the microsoft cloud helped us to bring banking to ten million people in just two years. it's transforming our world.
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bernie sanders has just taken the stage. you're looking at live pictures, 7:52 p.m. on the west coast at safeco field. a very large crowd that's been celebrating, waiting. let's listen in to bernie sanders speaking in seattle right now. >> you know, when i was a kid i had a dream of being at home
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plate in a major league ball park -- [ applause ] -- but i didn't know i would be giving a speak. i don't have a bat in my hand. so, thank you all very much. what a fantastic turnout. thank you, seattle. [ applause ] let me thank felicia, pm marcus bands, jawa mcduffy, catfan -- shama, grace love, dallas roberts jessica severance, blue grass band. john popper, and wall man deep
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and mostly thank all of you for coming out tonight. are you guys ready to make history tomorrow? [ applause ] well, at 10:00 a.m. in caucuses all over the state that is exactly what we will be doing. [ applause ] tomorrow morning the great state of washington has the opportunity to help lead this country into a political revolution. [ applause ] tomorrow morning in the great state of washington we're going
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to say loud and clear the billionaire class cannot have it all. [ applause ] tomorrow morning we are going to tell the world that we demand a government that represents all of us, not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors. [ applause ] here is the political reality that we have seen throughout this campaign. if there is a large voter turnout tomorrow, we'll win. if there is a low voter turnout, we'll lose. let's make sure there is a large voter turnout. [ applause ] we began this campaign some 10
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months ago. when we began all the media experts and pundits say you're a nice guy, you comb your hair beautifully, you're a gq kind of guy but really your campaign is a fringe candidacy. you can't win. [ crowd boos] >> well, 11 months, 10 months have come and gone. when we began, we were 3% in the polls, 70 points behind hillary clinton. yesterday a national poll came out. we're one point up. [ applause ]
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we have now won 11 states and if there are large turnouts tomorrow in washington, hawaii and alaska, we have a shot to win three more. and i believe that if we win here in washington, we're going to win in california. we are going to win in oregon and we've got a real path towards victory to the white house. [ applause ] and let me also say that if we win the democratic nomination, we are going to win the general
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election. [ applause ] poll after poll shows us that in match ups with donald trump -- don't worry, trump will not become president. [ applause ] recent cnn poll consistent with many other polls showed hillary clinton doing very well against trump. she was beating him by 12 points. we were beating him by 20 points. [ applause ] she was tied up with ted cruz. we were beating him by 13
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points. [ applause ] she was losing to john kasich. we were beating him by six points. so, don't let anybody tell you that hillary clinton is the strongest democratic candidate to take on the republicans. it is not true. but it is not just polls. democrats and progressives will win when there is a large voter turnout. [ applause ] republicans win when people become demoralized and don't come out to vote. it is our campaign, as you can see here tonight. [ applause ]
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it is our campaign that is creating the excitement and enthusiasm which will result in a huge voter turnout in november. let me just say for a moment a few of the very important differences between secretary clinton and myself. and one of them has to do with how you raise money for a campaign. [ applause ] when we began this campaign, we had to make a very simple decision and that decision was should we do what every other campaign does and start a super

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