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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  March 30, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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welcome back to this super sized edition of the show tonight. senator bernie sanders is riding high today in today's presidential politics just a few days after his huge double digit wins over the weekend in alaska and hawaii and washington state, bolsters by those huge margins he got, the sanders' campaign appears to be filling its oats. they're demanding more debates with hillary clinton. they're calling secretary clinton a weak democratic front-runner. he is going to campaign heavily in new york state where senator sanders will be tomorrow and the great state of wisconsin which votes on tuesday and where senator sanders has been holding some big rallies. a new poll out today puts bernie sanders ahead of hillary clinton in wisconsin by four points.
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looking down the barrel at that, it is a good day to be bernie sanders. today the senator held a big town hall event in madison, wisconsin and the senator joins us from backstage at that theater now. thank you so much for being here. really appreciate your time tonight. >> good to be with you. >> so congratulations on this big weekend that you had, not just wins in those three caucuses, but blow outs. there aren't that many more caucuses on the scalendar. the next big state is wisconsin on tuesday. did you expect to win wisconsin as well. >> i think if there is a large voter turnout, if working class people who have given up on the political process come out to vote, if young people who have never participated come out to vote, if there's a good turnout, we will win. if there's a low turnout we'll probably lose so we're doing everything we can to create a high voter turnout.
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>> senator sanders, i'm not going to ask you play pundit. i'm going to ask you about some stuff on the republican field in a second. before we do that i was struck by this cover story that rolling stone had recently where they put you and secretary clinton on the cover, they called it the good fight contrasting the fight between you with what's happening on the republican side saying that the democratic primary has been policy driven and decent and intelligent. it's been an argument to be proud of as a country. they said it's been game raising for both of you, basically that it's made you both better candidates. i want to know if you agree with that, if you think this is a good fight to be proud of thus far and if you think it's changed over time? >> let me say that comparing us to the republicans, that's a pretty low bar to overcome. i think what is really a national disgrace and i think
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this is not just what average americans are saying, but what many sane republicans are saying, this country faces enormous crisis. climate change, the pay equity issue for women and what republican candidates have now stooped to is to start attacking each others' wives. this is an international embarrassment. i think the people around the rest of the world think we are pretty crazy. i think compared to that what secretary clooninton are trying, we are trying to discuss the real issues facing the american people and i think most objective americans appreciate that a lot more than the kind of circus that is taking place on the republican side. >> i had a chance to speak with secretary clinton earlier todayened atoday
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and i asked her this question as well. last night the republican candidates gave up on what had been their previous pledges that they would all support their party's event yul nominee in the fall. i think a good portion of the party won't support whoever runs for president. as somebody who is running for the democratic nomination, do you look at that on the republican side and say good d riddance. are you concerned because we need both parties to be strong and sane in order to make this system work? >> first of all, i don't necessarily take at face value what they say. i think at the end of the day they will come together, but the other point, the deeper point, is the republican party today has moved very, very far to the
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right. they are way out of touch with where the american people are and i think if we had a media in this country that was really prepared to look at what the republicans actually stood for rather than quoting every absurd remark of donald trump talking about or the republican party talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of tax breaks, cuts in social security, medicare, medicaid, a party with few exceptions doesn't knowledge the reality of climate change or do anything about it, a party which is not prepared to stand with women in the fight for pay equity, a party that's not prepared to do anything about a broken criminal justice system or a corrupt campaign finance system, this is a fringe party. maybe they get 5%, 10% of the
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vote. what you really need in this country is a progressive party standing with the working class and the middle class of this country and a conservative party that has -- is more fiscally conservative. that is where we should be as a country. what the republican party today now is a joke maintained by a media which really does not force them to discuss their issues. so that's my two cents on that. >> let me try to get three cents out of this. if they are no longer the conservative party that they appear to be, does that mean that you would applaud if the republican party really did blow up? some people say the nomination of donald trump and the process they're going through now is enough to maybe destroy that party, maybe end the republican party. do you think that would be a good thing?
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>> well, i'm not going to give the republican leadership ideas on how they can reorganizatie tr party, what i can tell you it's imprerogative for future generations that we do not have a republican in the white house whether it's trump or cruz or anybody else. one of the things that i'm proud of and it hasn't gotten i think quite the attention that it deserves, is that in national poll after national poll, what you find is that i am leading people like trump -- poll came out a few days ago -- by 20 points and a significantly larger number than hillary clinton is. one of the points we're trying to get across is if the democratic party wants a strong candidate that will defeat trump or some other republican and beat them badly, i think i am the candidate because we appeal not only to democrats but to a lot of independents and some
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republicans as well. >> your campaign has talked about those head-to-head matchups, those hypothetical matchups in november, as essentially the case that you might make to the super delegates. we have talked about this before, but since we last spoke about it your campaign has gone into some more detail about this. it was said this week that your campaign would try to convince super delegates to support you at the convention on the strength of what you just said there that you have a better chance in the general election, that they would try to flip those super delegates to support you even if at the convention you're behind both in the pledge delegates and the popular vote. i thought that was surprising. i wanted to find out if that really is your campaign's position. >> i don't want to get too deeply into process here. first of all, we hope to be ahead in the delegate count. that's the important thing. what i do believe is that there are a lot of super delegates who
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have signed on to hillary clinton a long, long time ago and then you have other super delegates who are in states where we have won by 20, 30, 40 points and the people in those states are saying you know what, we voted for bernie sanders by 30 or 40 points, you got to support him at the convention. so we'll see what happens down the line, but our main task right now is in fact to come out of this whole process after california with more delegates than secretary clinton. >> are you working now on lobbying some of the super delegates? >> yes, we are. we are. we have started off by going to those states, states like utah, hawaii, states that have given us very large victories and
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trying to get to those people and say you know what, your state voted overwhelming for us, listen to what your state has to say. >> senator sanders, i promise i won't ask you only process questions here, but i do want to ask you about something that arose this week from your campaign that i disagree with on factual grounds and i'll tell you what it is. your campaign said this week that secretary clinton is leading overall basically because you choose not to compete in eight states, in arkansas, alabama, louisiana, tennessee. the reason i take exception with that is i saw footage of your rallies in texas and virginia. we reported you were ahead of clinton. why is your campaign now saying that you essentially didn't try in those states? >> you say you don't want to talk about processes, this is exactly what we're talking
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about. one person said that. i don't know the context of that. of course we were in texas. we had great rallies there. wi i think perhaps what tad meant by that is we did not put a lot of money into tv advertising, that we knew those states would be difficult states for us and we used our resources elsewhere, but we put a lot of money into south carolina and we did poorly. so of course we did compete in mississippi, alabama, not a lot to be honest with you, but i think what tad was meaning is that we did not put a lot of resources into those states. >> you told me in january you articulated that the democratic party really needs to run a 50-state strategy and people in places like south carolina and mississippi need strong campaigns there so their voices get heard. how do you square that with not running that hard in places like mississippi. >> if we had a lot longer time,
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that's exactly what i would do. but the difficult choices we have to make, what you have to do in the midst of a campaign is say where is our time and our resources best allocated if i'm going to win this thing. we knew we were never going to win in mississippi or alabama. but the point you make is a different and correct point. i believe starting yesterday the democratic party has got to start planting flags in all of those states. now, they may not win it in 2016 or 2018, but you're never going to win it unless you begin somewhere, unless you mobilize the grassroots in those states, come forward with good strong candidates, so it's really not a contradiction. i do believe very strongly if elected president i will create a situation where the dnc is a
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50-state party. you cannot ignore half the states in america, including those states who have the poorest people, the highest levels of unemployment, the worst health care systems in the country. democrats have got to pay attention to all 50 states. >> senator sanders, will you stay with us for just a moment. i have more to ask you in just a moment. our conversation continues in just a moment. ahh... ah. you probably say it a million times a day. ahh... ahh! ahh... ahh! but at cigna, we want to help eryone say it once a year. say "ahh". >>ahh... cigna medical plans cover one hundred percent of your in-network annual checkup. so america, let's go. know. ahh! and take control of your health. cigna. together, all theay. and to connect us with thes twonderment of nature.
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man 1: they got in through a vendor. man 1: do you know how many vendors have access to our systems? man 2: no. man 1: hundreds, if you don't count the freelancers. man 2: should i be worried? man 1: you are the ceo. it's not just security. it's defense. bae systems. joining us again is senator sande sanders. thank you for being with us tonight. appreciate it. so sir you tweeted today that it
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was quote shameful, that was the word you used, when donald trump said this to my colleague chris matthews here on msnbc. >> how do you ban abortion? >> you go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places, but you have to ban it. the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the women? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> ten years? >> i don't know. >> after word spread that donald trump made those remarks today about abortion, that a woman needs to be punished, you said today that was shameful. what is shameful about it? >> shameful is probably under stating that position. first of all, to me, and i think to most americans, women have the right to control their own bodies and they have the right to make those personal decisions themselves. but to punish a woman for having
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an abortion is beyond comprehension. i just -- one would say what is in donald trump's mind except we're tired of saying that. i don't know what world this person lives in. so obviously from my perspective and if elected president i will do everything i can to allow women to make that choice and to have access to clinics all over this country so if they choose to have an abortion they will be able to do so. the idea of punishing a woman is beyond comprehension. >> mr. trump is making headlines today. it's taken the media today by storm. i think there may be a case to be made, and i'd love your perspective on this, that his oppone opponent, senator ted cruz is more extreme on this issue and i say that in part because one of his national co-chairs on his
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pro-lifers, is a man named troy kn nueman said they should be punished. >> you're living in crazy world there and that is why the republican party, if they continue in this direction, will be as i mentioned a moment ago a fringe party. look, they have nothing to say. all they can appeal is through a small number of people who feel very rabid about a particular issue, whether it's abortion or maybe it's gay marriage. that is their constituentsy. they have nothing of substance. you mentioned a moment ago that the media is paying attention to donald trump. no kidding. once again ever stupid remark will be broadcast for the next five days, but what is donald trump's position on raising the minimum wage? he doesn't think so. what is donald trump's position on wages in america? he said in a republican debate
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he thinks wages are too high. what's donald trump's position on taxes? he wants to give billionaire families like himself hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks. what is donald trump's position on climate change? he thinks it's a hoax perpetrated shock of all shock by the chinese. on and on it goes. but because media is what media is today, any stupid or absurd remark made by donald trump becomes the story of the week. maybe, just maybe, we might want to have a serious discussion about the serious issues facing america. donald trump will not look quite so interesting in that context. >> are you suggesting that the media shouldn't be focusing on his call to potentially jail women who have abortions because that's another stupid comment. >> i am saying that every day he comes up with another stupid remark, absurd remark. of course it should be mentioned, but so should trump's overall position.
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how much talk do we hear about climate change and trump? any? >> he said that he cares more about nuclear climate change which is a term that he's invented. >> nuclear climate change? >> that's what he comes up with when he's asked on the subject. >> trump is nobody's fool. he knows how to manipulate the media and you say an absurd thing and the media is all over. my concern is that today in america you have millions of people who are struggling economically. they want to know how we're going to expand the middle class. overwhelming people think we should raise the minimum wage. vast majority of people think climate change is real and a threat to our planet. they want to do something about that. what do we do? vast majority of the people think the wealthiest people in this country should start paying their fair share of taxes. but if we don't discuss those issues, it creates the climate for people like donald trump to
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do much better than he really has a right to do. >> senator, you have been a fierce critic of the influence of the wealthy and big business on our politics, not just on who gets their way, but who sets the agenda. as republican legislators and governors have recently been weighing new laws that are diskrim toer, big business, including bank of america today has weighed in strongly against those laws. do you think those businesses should but out of those issues? >> they have -- when we look at politics in america, you have ceos of major corporations who have children who are gay who have friends who are gay, whose wives or daughters have had
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abortions. they live in the real world and they're responding to this type of very right-wing reaction naer policies and i understand that and i appreciate that. when i talk about money in politics, what i talk about is the koch brothers and billionaires spending hundreds of millions of dollars along with wall street to create a situation where politics -- politicians will be elected who represent the wealthy and the powerful. >> one of the issues that the koch brothers and their networks have supported in a way that has been very effective is an issue concerning veterans. you were the former chairman of the veterans' committee in the senate and in that capacity you worked closely with senator john mccain on a number of issues. he's praised you in this campaign. you've talked about your ability to work with him on veterans' issues, but right now senator mccain is pushing a propossessal
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to effectively privatize large parts of the va, which is something that the koch brothers and their network have pushed. what's your response to that? do you have plans to try to stop him on that given your relationship. >> of course, disagree. what you have a group called the concerned veterans of america. they appear on stations like cnn time and time again without being identified as being funded by the koch brothers. what they're doing is taking legitimate criticisms of the va and blowing them up and coming to the conclusion that we should privatize the va. this is an issue that i have dealt with. what i can tell you is having talked to the american legion and the vfw and every veterans' organization, what they tell suh that once the veterans get into the va system, the care is
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pretty good. it is pretty good. problem has been getting into the va system and also legitimately -- you have people who live 50, 60, 100, 200 miles away from a facility. should they have to travel 200 miles to get health care? no. the idea of privatizing the va would be a huge disservice to the men and women who have put their lives on the line to defend us. >> do you feel the way that the veterans who have put themselves on the line, do you feel like there's any lesson there in terms of bringing about a social change. you talk about a rev lauolution. have veterans in a way sort of shown us a way around some of those structural barriers to
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political change? >> i think you have organizations that do a very good job. obviously i know them all because i was chairman of the committee who represents veterans' interests. what i don't think we have at this point is the kind of grassroots act vichl that we should be having. there's a lot of good groups who are fighting for veterans' rights, but i would like to see more grassroots act vichl taking place. >> this is about your fundraising. off those huge wins this weekend we know something like within 24 hours your campaign has raised $24 million. you have shown an ability to tap large amounts of people for small amounts of money and you
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have resources to stay in this campaign as long as you want. i have to ask, though, if you have thought about whether or not you will at some point turn your fundraising ability toward helping the democratic party, for helping their campaign committees for other elections? >> right now as you are more than aware, our job is to win the democratic nomination. i'll tell you something, i never in a million years would have believed that we could have received over $6 million in individual campaign contributions averaging $27 apiece. a very different way of raising money than secretary clinton has pursued. right now we are enormously appreciative. without that type of support we would not be where we are right now. we would not be able to continue this campaign to the democratic convention so i am just blown away and very appreciative of
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all of the kind of support that we have gotten from grassroots america. >> obviously your proisiority i the nomination, but you raise secretary clinton, she has been fundraising for the nomination and the democratic party. do you see a time when you'll start doing that? >> we'll see. right now our focus is on winning the nomination. secretary clinton has access to kinds of money that we don't, that we're not even interested in. so let's take it one step at a time and the step that we're in right now is to win the democratic nomination. >> candidate for the democratic presidential nomination, senator bernie sanders. thank you so much for your time tonight. i know you're stretched very thin. thank you, sir. >> thank you. take care. this is a big night around here. the john kasich hour, the donald trump hour, the long format interview with hillary clinton and now this long format interview with bernie sanders.
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it's all in one night. it's very busy. in just a minute i'm going to be joined by steve cor knacky and chris matthews and chuck todd to try to digest what has happened around here because i think we've changed the news. xerox personalized employee portals help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing? cliff jumping! human resources can work better. with xerox. which allergy? eees. bees? eese. trees? eese. xerox helps hospitals use electronic health records so doctors provide more personalized care. cheese? cheese! patient care can work better. with xerox. that's it. at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like social media equals anti-social. hey guys, i want you to meet my fiancée, denise. hey. good to meet you dennis. some say "free the whales."
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properly. >> i don't think he's going to be the nominee. nobody's going to have enough delegate. >> how can they give up on millions of people. >> they don't like you. >> whoever merges is going to be on the wrong side of what our country need to do. >> this is is a fringe party. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion? >> yes. that, i don't know. >> to punish a women for having an abortion is beyond comprehensi comprehension. >> i'm constantly just taken aback at the kinds of things that he advocates for. >> somebody hits us with isis you wouldn't fight back? >> no. >> first of all, you don't want to say take everything off the table. >> just nuclear. >> it doesn't show that he's strong, it shows that he is dangerously wrong. he's in over his head.
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>> good evening. it has been a massive night of exclusive interviews right here. we've had town hall events featuring donald trump and one on one interviews with bernie sanders and hillary clinton. i'm here with rachel mad owe and chuck todd. chris matthews is going to join us, but we have to talk about what is the biggest news to come out of everything on our air tonight. donald trump's comments on abortion which have now ignited a firestorm on the left and right. this after the gop front-runner said that women who undergo abortions should face punishment if abortions were to be outlawed. >> if you say abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes. >> how about you? >> i would say that it's a very serious problem and it's a problem that we have to decide on. it's very --
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>> you're for banning. >> are you going to say put them in jail? >> i'm asking you because you say you want to ban it. what's that mine? >> i'm pro-life. >> oh you do ban abortion. >> you go back to a position like they had where people will go to illegal places, but you have to ban it. >> you running for president of the united states will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principal? >> the answer is there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yes. >> ten years? 20 years? >> i don't know. >> you take positions on everything else. >> i do take positions on everything else. it's a complicated position. >> tonight donald trump has released this statement clarifying those remarks. he says if congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation or any state were permitted to ban
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abortion, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. the woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. i am pro-life with exceptions. that is from donald trump tonight. and chris matthews joins me now on the phone. this exchange you had with donald trump on the subject of abortion, i got the impression listening to it that this line of questioning you asked him about, he never even thought about it before. >> i think a lo tt of people no in politics take a pro-life position or an anti-abortion rights position because they believe abortion is wrong morally, but i do think political people usually consider what that implication is. what would you do to ban abortion. would you sanction it? out law it?
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i think a lot of politicians are going over that in their mind and they make an judgment there. >> it was a striking exchange as well simple because i think you pointed this out this is is a guy who gives pretty clear answers on things. it took you an awful lot of probing to get that out of him. >> i know. i thought he was -- it was interesting on the two topics we got into, that and the use of nuclear weapons, the potential use of nuclear weapons in fighting isis. he did not want to take off the table the use of nuclear weapons even in europe. i think most political people are aware you don't talk about the use of nuclear weapons. it's one of the times you may not say no comment, but you effectively say that because it's not something you would talk about publicly when you would actually use the terrible weapon we used back in '45 in
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japan. you don't use it. it's there. he was right, we do have the stock piles as some sort of residue of our mutually assured destruction, but you don't talk about it. i think it's one of those learning experiences that hard to do on the stage he's on right now. >> it wasn't too long after news of the interview broke tonight, but word of the abortion comments got out long before that he issued a statement trying to clarify it saying i do not believe women should be prosecuted if they were to participate in an abortion. did you get a sense in the course of that broadcast, maybe after it, did you get a sense that he was aware or the people around him were aware that he had stirred up this firestorm? >> well, i didn't know he was. my thought is that it was quite a statement by him and i thought it was going to be troubling.
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i don't know him that well, but i guess i assumed that. we always ask questions. this is a very troubling issue to people, abortion rights, and people for abortion rights may have second thoughts about it at times. it's not a simple issue, but in terms of the law it's very simple. is it legal or illegal? if it's illegal what should be the sanction? if it isn't sanctioned, are you really banning it? these are questions we should all try to come to grips with. >> all right. chris matthews, it was a fascinating exchange and i'm glad you pressed him on that because it did get out something very interesting and making a lot of news. thanks for the time. >> thank you. that was chris matthews joining us by phone. we had planned to have chris to
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join us by studio tonight. there were travel issues so we had to talk to him by phone. stay with us here. we are going to talk about what john kasich had to say at his town hall, plus bernie sanders and hillary clinton too. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain
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and swelling. talk to your doctor about managing your symptoms proactively with linzess. to punish a woman for having an abortion is beyond comprehension. >> i think probably donald trump will figure out a way to say that he didn't say it or he was misquoted or whatever, but i don't think so. i don't think that's an appropriate response. >> my aunt said when someone shows who they are, believe them. >> reactions to donald trump on abortion. joining me now we have rachel maddow and chuck todd. the bottom line of this is donald trump made the comments to chris earlier. he's trying to walk them back and say women should not be punished. is there political damage here for donald trump and what is? >> i think there is.
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normally i would say if this were any other candidate i would say there's political damage, but with donald trump you never fully know. things that should be damaging to most political figures aren't always. he did a remarkable thing today. when you have the head of march for life on the same page when it comes to criticizing donald trump, that is a remarkable feat in american politics that he can unite the pro-life movements. i think this could be the tipping point, throw in if he does lose wisconsin, i think you're going to see more and more republicans decide better to risk losing without trump than losing with trump. over the last 24 to 72 hours, i don't know if there -- i think there's been at least three
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different statements he's made where either he had to walk it back, a republican had to distance themselves or some combination of the two. that's what the general election is going to look -- by the way, he's apparently trying to become more presidential. this is spiraling downward quickly. >> there's also this afternoon new polling out of wisconsin that shows ted cruz moving into a clear lead over donald trump. i said this to chris matthews, but it really seemed to me with he were watching a presidential candidate winging it there. it seemed like this was the first time he'd ever been asked that question and thought about it. >> i have to say credit to chris matthews. chris has been doing this for so long and he has this particular style and i mean this in a completely positive way, he is the great interrupter. he does it in a way that is not insulting, but he can interrupt almost after every word you say. being so bold and so comfortable with that style, he's one of the
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only people i have ever seen absolutely bam boozele trump. he could see the smoke coming out of his ears when he was pressed on if there should be punishment, you could see him come up with the answer that he wanted to give right there. he cooked it up there on the spot. he now has to live with it. it was -- i think it was a remarkable interviewing technique by chris matthews. i think will it be studied as such. to what chuck was saying about walking it back, one thing i'm struck by with donald trump is you think back to the start of his kpand all the other stuff that we thought would hurt him. the most amazing thing to me is he never walked it back and he never paid a price for it. now he's become such a professional politician that he walks stuff back all the time, which does i think undercut his
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sort of mega man alpha personality which has led him into this south american strong man type campaign. >> the other thing he's done is the anger in the conservative movement against trump, it's really growing and the anger is this? the other thing that was exposed by -- that was exposed today with trump, at least when i was talking to some conservative activists, is this feeling that he is essentially trying to be a pror tray ol of a conservative. they feel as if trump is insulting their positions when it comes to whether it's -- he's going to be tough on immigration and he's going to build a wall, a bigger wall or ban all muslims. then he goes to an extreme position and so now you have this growing anger in the conservative movement going wait
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a minute, he's sort of -- he's playing games with us. he's embarrassing us. now we do need to try to stop him. so i think that could be happening here now. >> there was this dispute of the debate over ted cruz's wife and the campaign tactics, the corey lewandowski stuff, the stand alone contest on april 5th, we'll see what happens there. up next after a quick break we're going to turn to the other contest, more reaction to tonight's interviews, including bernie sanders and hillary clinton. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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right. they are way out of touch with where the american people are. this is a fringe party. it is a fringe party. >> back now dissecting everything we heard the last few hours here. so on the democratic side, you interviewed both of these candidates tonight. we talk about donald trump and these comments. there's so much discussion about media's coverage of donald trump. is it too much? are they covering it the wrong way? you asked hillary clinton and she went out of her way in her answer to you to say this is something the press needs to be covering, they need to be pressing him on this and they need to be getting out there what he said. you asked the same thing to bernie sanders, he says the press should mention this and this is the stupid things that donald trump says. focus on something else. two very different views of this. >> it happened in the reverse
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order because i ended up having this interview with hillary clinton and then donald trump made his comments. then i had an interview with bernie sanders and then i went back out into the streets of new york city and found hillary clinton to get her comment on trump. bernie sanders had already told me at that point when i asked about trump's comments, he said yes, they're terrible and here's all the reasons i disagree, but everything trump says gets too much media coverage. he said listen the minimum wage and climate change and these other things should be discussed more. i put that to hillary clinton and said is he right about that, are we giving this too much attention and she rejected that. in part i think it's an analysis of whether or not media coverage is the responsible thing to do with donald trump and whether it's fueling him. i think it's a substantive difference between the two of them about whether or not abortion rights is a central issue in this campaign.
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bernie sanders is saying i'd rather talk about minimum wage than abortion rights and hillary clinton is saying this is a central issue. >> you were talking about wisconsin on tuesday a turning point on tuesday if trump loses big there. if you talk to the sanders people they say wisconsin is a turning point in the democratic campaign. they say sanders may win big there, and get momentum for new york and pennsylvania and some of these bigger states still to come. what do you make of that argument the sanders' campaign is putting out there. >> he's spending the type of money in wisconsin, he's outspending her 6-to-1. that's the type of figures that he did in new hampshire where he bought a land slide. he think he needs a landslide to have an impact. 52-48 doesn't do it. it's a turning point only if it does lead to him pulling an upset in new york. two quick takeaways from
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rachel's interviews, boy does lr hillary clinton want to run against donald trump. it's an odd way of saying it, but she's more an mated in a way that i've seen her when contrasting against anybody else. the second thing is, sanders is getting cranky about so many process questions, but the problem is are his campaign and him on the same page? this happens a lot. campaign says one thing, rachel or myself or somebody else presents it to sanders and he throws his aids under the bus. it's just a pattern i've noticed with sanders. >> the process questions questions and his reactions jumped out at me too. you're asking him something that's more than legitimate. he's been saying the key to my campaign and the key to this revolution is we're going to get record voter turnout. he talks about process as part of his message. there hasn't been record voter
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turnout on the democratic side. you said why aren't you co competing in these other states and he says he have to make choices. that's been the argument that officials have made. >> that's the third part that he says i may not win with the people, but i may get the super delegates to cross over. >> thank you both for sticking around. appreciate that. >> what a night. >> it really was. a lot to talk about. up next msnbc's town hall with donald trump, the one we have been talking about, mottha next. ♪ uh oh. oh. henry! oh my. good, you're good. back, back, back. (vo) according to kelley blue book, subaru has the highest resale value of any brand.
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