tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC March 31, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PDT
usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% ofur members plan to stay for life. good morning, the country waking up to headlines about comments that donald trump made right here on msnbc last night. the new york times and usa today and "washington post," the news this morning all over the country is about trump's controversial statement, a statement he later took back that if abortion were to be made illegal, a woman should be punished under the law for seeking one. this is something that is unleashed a five storm of controversy that could sweep all
the way through to next tuesday's critical wisconsin primary. all of this started yesterday with trump talking about abortion at a town hall with chris matthews right here on msnbc. then after making the comments in the town hall, trump changed his position over the course of the night. i'm going to play with you first the original comments that donald trump made yesterday. >> should the woman be punished for having an abortion? >> look -- >> this is not something you can dodge. >> if you say abortion is a crime or murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> well, people in certain parts of the re-republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say it's a very serious problem. and it's a problem that we have to decide on. it's very -- >> you're for banning it. >> are you going to say put them in jail? >> i'm asking you because you say you want to ban it. you running for president will
be chief executive of the united states, do you believe in punishment for abortion yes or no? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yes. >> ten cents, ten years? >> that i don't know. >> why not? you take positions on everything else. >> i do, it's a very complicated position. >> you're saying pro-life meaning you want to ban it? >> but the catholic church is pro-life -- >> you want to ban abortion. how do you ban abortion without some kind of sanction. then you get into a very tricky question of a sanction, a fine on human life which you call murder? a fine? imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> after that trump tried to put out a statement to reverse the position he just expressed saying in the state this issue is unclear and should be put back into the states for determination.
like ronald reagan, i'm pro-life with exceptions, which i have outlined numerous times. at that point his republican rivals ted cruz and john kasich pounced. >> should women who get abortions be punished? >> of course not, donald's comments today are the latest demonstration he hasn't thought seriously about the problems facing this country. he's willing to say anything to try to get elected. >> absolutely not. i do have exceptions for rape and incest and life of the mother and women shouldn't be punished. donald trump will figure out a way he didn't say it or he was misquoted or whatever and i don't think so. >> what's striking here is that groups on both sides are the abortion issue pro-choice groups like planned parenthood an march for life, they are both condemning the original comment saying he would punish women for seeking abortions then a few hours after that first clarification, his campaign released a second statement saying in this one, if congress
were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and federal courts upheld this legislation, the doctor or any person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible. not the woman. the woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. my position has not changed like ronald ragen, i'm pro-life with exceptions. that is where donald trump landed finally last night after saying what he originally did in that msnbc town hall. in all of this, all of the controversy, all of the comments from his opponents, it brings us back to the key contest on the board for republicans right now, wisconsin, the state that will vote next tuesday. and look at this, the back drop for those comments, a new poll from perhaps the gold standard pollster in the state of wisconsin, this is marquette law school. this poll came out just yesterday afternoon, look at that, ted cruz rocketing into a
double digit lead over donald trul p, 40% of the vote. cruz has doubled his total from last year. trump in second place there. ten points behind john kasich, still very much a factor in wisconsin but running in third place, 21%. so what has happened in this race since that last poll in wisconsin in february? a lot has happened in this race since that poll in wisconsin. in just the last week we've had the war of the wives between ted cruz and donald trump. a lot of heat over what he was saying and doing there. there have been continued questions about trump's attitudes towards women, about his tone towards women and trump's campaign manager, corey lewandowski, his altercation with a reporter a few days in a charge of battery. even since this poll wrapped up on monday, wisconsin's governor scott walker made more news in that state and endorsed ted cruz, trump's rival. those abortion comments by donald trump, they happened after this poll was conducted.
so still, very volatile there in wisconsin. trump wants to avoid a contested convention at all costs, that is what makes wisconsin so critical. this coming tuesday, it is a test of whether republicans who want to stop trump really do have a chance of denying him that magic number of delegates and opening up that convention in cleveland. how realistic is that? how much trouble is trump in? we're going to turn to the big board and take a look. what you have on your screen is the current delegate count. the magic number here, 1237. if trump in all of the primaries and caulk caucuses, if he can hit 1237, he's the nominee. a few states haven't fully tallied delegates, number is probably closer to 755. look at the map to come, yet to vote on the reason side. these are the number of delegates in those states. when you play all of this out and give trump his best case
scenario on this map, he does clear 1237 but the margin is thin. there's not much margin for error. that's what makes wisconsin so important this coming tuesday. when i say best case trump scenario, means trump wins wisconsin. that new poll suggests that poll is in deep, deep trouble in wisconsin. think about this, the way the delegate rules work in wisconsin, in ted cruz wins there, right away he gets 18 delegates of the 42 for winning the state. then what do they do? they give you three for every congressional district you're winning. if ted cruz were to win the state by ten points, very likely he's winning a lot of those congressional districts. you could see ted cruz taking something like 34 or 38 maybe of those 42 delegates. donald trump is in danger of getting very few delegates out of wisconsin. here's the thing, if donald trump loses wisconsin, you talk about momentum in campaigns and that stop trump campaign and anybody who doesn't want trump as the nominee, they can say,
look, things are changing in the race and if you look demographically and trump is losing wisconsin, look at this state right here. indiana, if he's losing wisconsin, he's in danger of losing indiana. how about pennsylvania? there was a poll in pennsylvania a week ago that showed john kasich winning three points over donald trump. we look at the big one left still, california. there's a monthly thpoll that h ahead. it's only ten points, if there's momentum for cruz or stumbles by trump and concerns by republicans they cannot nominate donald trul p, he can lose the support he's counting on in california. everywhere on this map, you think about the northeast in general, everywhere. where donald trump underperforms from this point forward and pushes the delegate count lower and lower, you could see something where he's in the best case scenario crossing 1237. he could be well short of that
and then we really would have that thing that we've been talking about for years and never actually have seen in modern times in open contested convention in cleveland this summer. that's the map right now. our reporters are on the ground this morning, kelly o'donnell is on the campaign trail in wisconsin and hallie jackson in los angeles. kelly, let's start with you. we have that new poll in wisconsin yesterday, even before the comments from donald trump, he was in a world of trouble in wisconsin. look at that, down ten points. is that what you're feeling on the ground there? >> reporter: wisconsin is so important, steve, because this is a state that matters in the primaries and always matters in the general election. you have layers here, almost like a wisconsin cheese plate of issues, you've got the question of does donald trump fully understand the issues, that's one piece of this. is what he said about abortion and walking it back going to upset the way voters look at him? there are the fierce trump supporters who seem to give him a pass or get in a new sense of
energy every time he's down. then you have the issue of the republican establishment here. you've got governor walker who wants to have a long future and remains popular among his base. you've got the senator ron johnson in a real fight to go back to the senate. then you've got things like the staff issue. what is so different about donald trumps a front-runner in this race is normally when other campaigns fall by the wayside, their talent and strategists and people kind of move to new jobs with a front-runner. why is that important? it gives the candidate support. you had a sense almost in watching chris matthews sort of work in the bag on donald trump and you could see the incremental unsteadiness of trump's answer going to a place he hadn't prepared for. not even perhaps views he really holds, it's hard to know but he had to walk it back. when you have stronger staff, it helps to prep the candidate if he's willing to be prepped and catch those mistakes and of
course we know there's turmoil on the staff level for donald trump with all of the issues surrounding his campaign manager. so many different sort of groups that come together that shape what this is for voters abortion can be a very anmating issue and donald trump's position is nowhere near where most pro-life as they want to be identified voters are. those who really oppose any sort of legal abortion with a couple of exceptions. his own evolution on that very contentious issue formally having a much more democratic view and then his own evolving on that. this is such sort of volatile ground for donald trump. at the same time, when you went through the math in wisconsin, ted cruz has been much more sophisticated in his approach on targeting the districts on looking for how do you win the delegates. trump is more of the big branding guy trying to sell his message in different sorts of events, cruz has been much more
targeted. john kasich too, looking where to pick up delegates. that spells real trouble for donald trump until he gives us a new storyline which seems to be his pattern. >> kelly o'donnell with lambeau field behind her in green bay, wisconsin. ted cruz, we showed a clip of him lashing out and pouncing on those down r donald trump apportion comments yesterday. he said in a statement, once again donald trump has demonstrated he hasn't seriously thought through the issues and he'll say anything to get attention. hallie jackson is in los angeles following the cruz campaign. hallie, you're in l.a. and ted cruz was on the jimmy kimmel show last night but sees big opportunity here in these trump comments. >> potentially, steve, and i would note the event before he traveled here to california for kimmel and to do finance events, it was a women for ted cruz event. we saw his mother. we saw his wife and daughters came out for a moment. carly fiorina has been joining
him as well. on the trail with heidi cruz, talking about cruz's message to women nationally, all issues are women's issues. this was happening in the morning and later in the afternoon donald trump's comments that sparked that firestorm that we're seeing fallout from today. it is a contrast between the two candidates and that is what ted cruz is trying to pint out. he was on "kimmel" and asked about his feelings towards donald trump. >> donald trump, is he the person you dislike most of anyone in america? >> oh, no -- >> who do you like better, obama or trump? [ cheers and applause ] >> i dislike obama's policies more. >> i see. >> but donald -- donald is a unique individual. i am say i was watching the early part of the show. if i were in my car and getting
ready to reverse and saw donald in the backup camera -- i'm not confident which pedal i would push. >> that's a reference from a bit that aired earlier about this prank that he was pulling. you talk about california though, steve, we're focusing on wisconsin since this is the next ahead. june 7th, big deal day. the cruz campaign believes they will win california and get at least 65% or more of the vote here of the delegates and looking on that day at montana and new mexico. these are places where the campaign believes they can compete hard. so not conceding california to somebody like donald trump. watch for cruz to campaign in places like the central valley and places that may be more amenable to his positions and policies. >> hallie jackson on the road with ted cruz in california. thanks for that. i want to bring in robert costa, national political reporter for "washington post" and susan page, bureau chief for "uss
today." i guess the big asterisk, when we talk about donald trump and controversy, we have seen this before and seen the controversial comment where we say will this change things and it never seems to. that said there may be different things playing out, especially the anger from the right on this. i wonder what you make of this moment. does it have the potential to be a tipping point in the campaign? >> we've said this before, maybe we should be cautious, i don't think for core trump supporters this is something that shakes their views. he needs to expand his appeal to get over the finish line for the republican nomination and certainly if he's in a general election he needs to appeal to people who are concerned about these latest comments. i think the question you have now, this is certainly fueled hope among the stop trump forces they could succeed but it
depends on more cooperation than we've seen in the past between the cruz and kasich camps. you look at california, certainly june 7th will be an important day. do kasich and cruz cooperate and dive vid congressional districts to maximize the impact and denying trump delegates? we haven't seen that yet. maybe we'll see that going forward. >> these rules -- in california for people who don't know the rules, you have 53 congressional districts and three delegates for every congressional district out there plus a small sum if you win the thing statewide. robert costa, let's talk about wisconsin. on tuesday we have that new poll and wow, donald trump down ten points, it feels something is going on in the state and not good for donald trump right now. >> the politics of wisconsin are complicated. in a general election it's a purple state and gone to democratic nominees but in off years and gubernatorial
elections and presidential primaries, it has a movement conservative activist base, not the normal disengaged working class voetder we've seen trump do well with in other states. that's why cruz is rising in particular in this place. >> play it out for us a little bit. we looked at the map there in terms of the delegate math that would be involved. there's a huge difference there. you have trump -- probably counting on winning 30 delegates out of wisconsin. they could get wiped out or be stuck with three the way the numbers look right now. in terms the biggest picture arc and momentum and things like that. if donald trump does lose badly in wisconsin what does that do to the stop trump movement? >> it gives it traction and april is going to be a testing month both for trump and stop trump movement. states like pennsylvania and new york, because trump comes from the northeast and has a celebrity appeal and some roots in that area, he is seen as the favorite especially in new york,
his home state. if cruz can really get the conservative types to come out in wisconsin, it will be a sign that he could perhaps do so in later contests in april. you look at states like indiana in early may, they've elected a governor like mike pence who shares the conservative movement politics. you could see an upswing for cruz and kasich is the complicating factor. >> we should mention, we talk about where donald trump is in trouble, you see the northeast, there's a new poll out in new york, donald trump's home state, trump 56 and ted cruz 20 and kasich 19. with numbers like that donald trump would be getting the overwhelming share of the 95 delegates in new york. there are big pockets where he can gobble delegatdelegates. you were talking about the lack of coordination on the republican side and that is interesting to me too. you look at wisconsin, the biggest threat is ted cruz and a
poll in pennsylvania shows cruz isn't much of a factor there but kasich there. he has a shot at him. could you see a scenario where even if there's not normal coordination, kasich does okay in pennsylvania and cruz does okay here, they deny trump the majority and wait until the convention to sort it out. >> that would certainly be the most sensible case if egos and ambitions were not part of the calculation because the northeast is i think not friendly territory particularly to ted cruz. that's a place where kasich is likely to do better in a state like pennsylvania and new york gives trump the possibility of a rebound if he loses in wisconsin which now looks like it may well be in the cards. then you go to places like california where maybe you divide up where you're putting your resources. it doesn't require a lot of sophisticated political analysis to know which congressional districts in california are conservative republican districts that might be friendly to ted cruz and which are more liberal democratic districts and
san francisco, where kasich where he has a better prospect against trump. we haven't seen that happen yet. is the stop trump movement at a point where they are able to allocate resources in a way that makes the most sense against trump? >> all right, susan page and robert costa, thank you both for the time this morning. >> thank you. >> coming up, big stakes in wisconsin. not just for the republicans but also for the democrats, bernie sanders turning up the heat on hillary clinton as he vows to win the badger state next tuesday. >> we begin this campaign, 11 months ago we were considered to be a fringe candidacy, not to be taken seriously. well, a lot has changed in 11 months. we were 60 or 70 points behind secretary clinton. a poll last week had us one point up.
[ cheers and applause ] >> what would a wisconsin win mean for sanders' campaign and the race for the democratic nomination? we'll dive into that straight ahead. technology. technology... say, have you seen all the amazing technology in geico's mobile app? mobile app? look. electronic id cards, emergency roadside service, i can even submit a claim. wow... yep, geico's mobile app works like a charm. geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more. and clean and real and inside jokes and school night.
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i think if there is a large voter turnout, if working class people who have given up on the political process come out to vote, if young people who have never participated come out to vote, if there's a good turnout, we will win. >> and that was senator bernie sanders last night in an exclusive interview with our own rachel maddow, talking about the big showdown in wisconsin. a new polling in that state shows sanders with a four-point lead over hillary clinton. this just five days away from next tuesday's democratic primary. we're expecting to hear from
sanders and in pittsburgh, that's going to be followed by a rally in the next hour. he's going to be talking about trade deals. hillary clinton has a stop scheduled in the northern new york city suburb of purchase and will head back on the campaign trail this wisconsin. let's look where the democratic race stands right now. we went through the republican side. here's the delegate count on the democratic side. 2383, that's the magic number. this will drive sanders' people nuts because it counts the different kinds of delegates you have out there, superdelegates, elected officials who get automatic votes, they not locked in and can always change their minds. the category to pay attention to are pledged delegates, these are delegates you win by winning primaries and caucuses, we can get the superdelegates to change their mind and we can hit that number. this number, 230 the number of
pledge delegates that hillary clinton leads bernie sanders by right now. the question for sanders, can he erase the 230 delegate lead for hillary clinton with the remaining caucuses, these are the states still to come, 230 is our magic number here. we showed the poll, wisconsin up tuesday. the bad news for sanders, if he's winning by the margin you see in the poll, about four points, he's not going to put much of a dent in the 230. he would take 46 of the 68 delegates and bring it down to 224 or something. here's the real challenge for sanders, they say if we win in wisconsin, that gives us momentum. what does momentum do? it changes the map. where do they need to change the map? they need new york, the next state after wisconsin, that's april 19th, pennsylvania, new jersey, maryland. basically the mid-atlantic.
almost 40% of the delegates they can win are in those four states and the problem for sanders is, the polls in the four states right now are ugly for him. he's down, 20, 35 points or even more in those states. at this point if that held, hillary clinton would add easily more than 100 delegates to the lead and there wouldn't be enough here for sanders to make up that kind of gap. what he needs to do, he needs momentum from wisconsin. he needs new attention on this race. he needs something that's going to shake up the race in those four big mid-atlantic states. that's his challenge. his campaign says if we win wisconsin, we can be on our way to doing that. that is a steep hill to climb but that is the hill he has to climb if he's going to reach the pledged delegate lead. let's bring some reporters in here. we have kristen welker closely following the democratic race as
has jackie kucinich at the daily beast. on the republican side it looks like ted cruz has the momentum and democratic side bernie sanders does. >> when you look at the polls, both wisconsin and new york, neither are expanding their base. bernie sanders is still winning with white men and young people and hillary clinton is still winning with older people and women. and so and minorities for that matter. as you get into more diverse states, hillary clinton is going to do better because bernie sanders for whatever reason has not been able to make inroads. wisconsin is a very white state and that also plays into bernie sanders favor, which might be why you see the clinton campaign tempering expectations there. >> actually we mentioned the polling in the mid-atlantic states. we have the quinnipiac poll in new york just out today. it is closer, earlier polls had it at 20 to 30 points now hillary clinton still double digits but 54-42.
that's one of the big delegate holes left. that fire wall for hillary clinton, that mid-atlantic fire wall. it's down to 12 in new york. how confident does the clinton campaign feel? >> they still feel confident in new york. but this is almost a must win state for her. if she loses in new york it would be humiliating. she's going to have that event in purchase later today where she launched her senate bid. campaign officials telling me she's going to try to remind new yorkers, i might not be the best campaigner, but look at the work i did when i was senator, i'll do the same job if i were elected president. that's the challenge though for secretary clinton because we have seen senator sanders come back in the other states. when you look at the latest poll you decided, it's a little bit closer than they would have liked but still feeling confident. jackie was talking about minority voters, don't overestimate the significance of that. secretary clinton clearly trying to harness momentum here.
>> what do we know right here? the debate over debates is playing out in the democratic side. sanders saying i want a debate in new york and debate there before the 19th and clinton campaign was sending signals that we're not sure. we don't like the tone that bernie sanders has been using. where does that stand right now? >> they were argue being he was being incredibly negative. the reality is, it wouldn't look great if she didn't debate him and both campaigns are in discussions. i get the sense my gut feeling is this debate will happen. there's scheduling conflicts right now so they may be working through the final phases but we're waiting for the final word. when you're the front-runner and have a big delegate lead, you don't want to have another big debate because you don't want to make a mistake. but i get the sense it will move forward. >> the bigger picture look at this campaign, two ways of looking at it of the on the one hand you go through the delegate math and factors that hillary clinton is in a good position, really good position to win the
democratic nomination. on the other hand, if you had said at the outset that bernie sander was going to win, 1,000, 1500, 1800 delegates, might win 20 states against hillary clinton before this is all said and done. that would have been shocking. >> absolutely. you can't -- you can't understate how he has given her a run for her money here. and again, the problem is, even if he wins wisconsin, it's like he doesn't get the whole pie. she still gets a piece of the pie and adds to her delegate count. while the bernie sanders campaign has said they can pull away the superdelegates, they can go and leave and go when they please. when you look at the new york delegates, they are saying even if hillary loses the state, they are still going to stick with her. it will be a tough sell for bernie sanders, among the more establishment democrats for him to pull them over at this point. >> kristen? >> final reminder about the math, in order for senator sanders to clinch the nomination, he wouldn't just have to win in new york, but a
huge margin and other states you mingsed and in a state like california, the clinton campaign arguing she has a lead of 2.5 million votes. they feel good where they are. senator sanders still facing an uphill battle but he has given her a run for her money for sure. >> the other x factor, sanders has done so well in the caucus states, only two caucus states left on the board. a lot of primaries there. thanks to both of you for joining us and not too long ago a lot of people were speculating whether joe biden and michael bloomberg would shake up the presidential race by getting in themselves. tuesday they appeared together, bloomberg joked about what prevented him and biden from getting in. >> we actually talked about doing a joint ticket but we couldn't agree whether it was reverse or alphabetical order -- >> up next, we're going to talk
to michael bloomberg's former spokesman what it will take to win the big new york primary on april 19th. stay with us. ok team, what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good. we're total heroes. scale on demand with the number one company in cloud infrastructure.
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for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap. >> while we wait on bernie sanders with his speech, democrats are looking past wisconsin into new york, where the adopted daughter versus the n native son story is playing out. bernie sanders is a brooklyn native. both are campaigning in that state today. in this state, where we are right 2340u6789 a poll released this morning raising eyebrows. here in new york hillary clinton won two elections here, just a 12-point lead for her, down from numbers we've seen before. 54-42 over bernie sanders. while that may seem like a hefty lead, there's still more -- there are still more than three weeks to go until the april 19th
primary. this is a state not a slam dunk for hillary clinton. here with me now is the former long time press secretary to three-term new york city mayor michael bloomberg. that's redundant. anyway, on the democratic side these numbers are surprising. we've seen polls that had hillary clinton by 30 points in new york. she won here twice, sanders within 12. how much trouble is she in in new york? >> it's concern ing, it's not catastrophic, she's up by 12 and down 14 among people who say they are very liberal. obviously know people who more liberal are more likely to vote in the democratic primary and have a real tendency in new york to vote against the establishment candidate. the establishment candidate, christine quinn, city council speaker would have been the first openly gay mayor and helped run the city for a long time. probably more qualified than any candidate in our lifetimes. does this sound familiar? >> that dynamic, how bill de
blasio got elected -- >> whom whom every supported and -- a real scare the next year, two years ago running for governor. she was hardly at all known but more progressive than him and andrew cuomo is a skilled governor and extremely skilled politician and with fancy footwork and smart people in the working families party steered around her. it's hard to think of a time when the establishment candidate in new york has won, going back at least two the race to replace rudy giuliani was going to be the guy and ended up in fourth place and ended up -- >> you talk to the sanders people, how are you going to pull this out now? they say we're going to win wisconsin. that's going to change the narrative and people will give bernie sanders a new look and
numbers will start moving. do you think that will happen? if he wins next tuesday, are we looking at a different race in new york on wednesday? >> hillary -- secretary clinton is overwhelmingly likely be the nominee and do very well in new york. african-american and caribbean voters who are a giant part of the democratic primary vote love her and love the family. all of that said, the sanders people -- if you are not a democrat and are a vote you would have had to change your voter registration to a democrat to vote this week. six months, almost -- about six months. >> back when nobody is paying attention. >> and you could not walk through midtown manhattan. i couldn't walk to my office every day asked are you a democrat, would you like to change? are you a member of the working families party -- >> that is a well organized campaign. if a year ago they were out there getting people. >> they've been doing this for quite some time. and if you aren't a voter in new york and never voted in new york, you had to have registered
by last week. about 41,000 new votes that came in last week, we don't know if they are democrats or republicans. many of them may be trump voters but there's a lot of movement to see they are young voters. we work, which probably runs the most -- biggest startup in new york city, house tens and thousands of people -- thousands of startups and all 27 locations, i think it's 27 locations in new york city. they had voter registration. for overwhelmingly young people who probably didn't grow up here. the poll that we saw this morning has young voters favoring sanders by 30 points. it's an issue of some concern. i don't know -- i wouldn't count her out and particularly the african-american and caribbean base vote are totally in her favor but there are some warning signs. >> there's a lot of volatility and that's a poll that will get a lot of discussion. republican side we said this earlier, but trump right now in the same poll a 36-point lead,
over 50%, key threshold here in new york on the republican side. trump looking good in the home state and hillary, a little shakier, thanks for joining us. up next, after vowing to spend the entire week in wisconsin, donald trump taking a day off from campaigning today. this as the stop trump movement goes into overdrive but trump losing ground in the badger state. could ted cruz put the brakes on trump's momentum? we'll talk to one wisconsin congressman who thinks so. that's next. ♪ in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and new infrastructure for a new generation attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in rochester, with world-class botox. and in buffalo, where medicine meets the future. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today - at business.ny.gov at ally bank, no branches equals great rates.
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wisconsin, ted cruz with a 10-point lead there. just five days to go until voters make their decision and more critically the movement up seems to be on cruz' side in wisconsin. all of this begs the question, why is wisconsin so different from these other states in the northern part of the country where trump has done well before now. with me now from milwaukee is wisconsin republican congressman glenn grojman, a ted cruz supporter. let me ask you this question, we've seen on the map of states that voted so far, donald trump has done well in northern states and urbanized states, ted cruz his support is concentratesed more in prairie states and plain states. what is it about wisconsin? >> first of all, i don't like are we part of an anti-trump movement. i can myself part of a pro cruz movement. but i can speak for people in wisconsin. i think donald trump, his style turns off a lot of wisconsinits,
he's a wealthy guy but normally in wisconsin we appreciate quiet wealth nobody who brags about mouch money he has. when you hear a debate, for judicial candidates or school board candidates or what have you, you like polite people. donald trump in so many of these debates has belittled his opponents and i have never heard anybody treat their opponents that way. that turns people in wisconsin off of trump. not to mention, wisconsin primary voters as so many other voters are largely conservative on a variety of issues, particularly on spending, $19 trillion debt. donald trump is kind of a work in progress and they want somebody with more of a history of conservativism, standing up to special interest. all of these things hurt donald trump in wisconsin and i think it's kind of his demeanor or his
style that turns off people in wisconsin. >> where do you see it going from here? you're am in wisconsin and want to push your candidate over the top on tuesday. if that happens and that poll is right and ted cruz wins on tuesday, where does the race go? what is the cruz path from there? can cruz hit the magic number himself? >> we're focusing on wisconsin right now. but i think there's no question over time as other candidates drop out of the race it becomes a different ball game. donald trump obviously -- somebody pay a lot of attention to. you're paying a lot of attention to him. as a result, there are a given of number of people who aren't going to vote for him. as every candidate drops off, it makes it easier for somebody like a kasich or a cruz to rise. that's one of the reasons why cruz is going to win wisconsin, all of a sudden rubio is not involved and helps us. >> if we get to the convention,
if donald trump is short of 1237 but he's still in the lead in terms of the most delegates, that does seem to be the most likely scenario here, are you confident that in the convention turned to somebody besides donald trump it would be ted cruz or do you see it opening up for somebody else? >> who knows? it's obviously going to again. if ted cruz would be 50 or 60 votes away, i think they would give it to ted cruz. if no candidate would say more than 40%, i have no idea. obviously it's not my decision. i don't know yet whether i'm going to be a delegate. what you have to do is go through the list of delegates and ask them how they feel about that. >> glenn grothman, ted cruz supporter, thanks for the time. >> up next, john kasich's campaign campaigning hard to stay in the race. could pizza be to blame for the low poll numbers in new york? we'll explain next.
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john kasich is doing everything he can to stay alive in this race. did he offend the republican electorate in new york with a food faux pas? look at this. he grabbed a slice of pizza. look what he's doing there. he's eating wit a fork. something no self respecting new yorker would ever do. and this morning kasich was asked about his food fum pbl. . >> eating pizza with a fork? >> look, look. robin, look, look. the pizza came scolding hot. okay? >> all right. >> so i use a little fork. you know my wife on spring break with my daughters, you know what she said? i'm proud of you. you finally learned how to use a utensil properly. not only -- look. not only did i eat the pizza, i had the hot sausage. it's fantastic.
i came to new york. 100 press people there. get ready, john. i'm spending a lot of time in new york. >> new yorkers eat the pizza a certain way. >> that's why i always asked them not too hot putting it into the oven and isn't scalding hot. not the first with a fork of pizza in his mouth. back in 2011, the footage looking at here, sarah palin and donald trump famously met at a times square pizzaria and both used forks for the pizza that day. could democrats help donald trump fighting to rebound in wisconsin? we have seen this story over the last few months. unhappy working class democrats crossing over, voting in republican primaries in wisconsin's open primary for trump. is that something to look for on tuesday? we'll hear from some folks saying they'll do just that. democrats for trump in wisconsin. that's next. a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it.
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an open primary. democrats can vote for republicans, republicans can vote for democrats. and msnbc's tony is looking at the trend. >> reporter: that's right. this is the local version of the largest industrial union in america and i want to give you living insight into what we have seen in the polls from yesterday. you have a ten-point deficit for donald trump. he has to make that up. bernie sanders is surging and a slight edge against hillary clinton. this is ross winklebauer with the united steelworkers and gives us insight of how trump might make up that deficit. are you seeing democrats union members that tend to be democrats and telling you to cross over for donald trump? >> we have not seen or heard that but we're realistic. we know that some of our members will, unfortunately, listen to donald trump's rhetoric.
and will buy into it. and so i'm sure just like no different than ted cruz. they say the rhetoric. some of them will, unfortunately, buy into it. >> hillary clinton was leading in this state by double digits over bernie sanders. >> right. >> until recently. why do you think union members might break for bernie sanders? >> because bernie is -- is more down to earth. bernie talks to our me believes. he talks to everybody. he's against the current tpp. the way the trade is. he believes in free trade just like we do. >> thank you, ross. steve, i have to emphasize the union vote of ohio and seven times more voters than expected crossed over from the republican to democratic side an lifted donald trump in some counties in ohio and lost the state. if he makes up that ten-point deficit here in wisconsin he needs a similar surge. back to you. >> all right. interesting tough, tony do cup
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