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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 1, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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continues to trail senator ted cruz by as much as ten points in the badger state. national polls, they also show the bottom could be dropping out. trump will be in wisconsin this weekend looking to regain his footing after spending four hours yesterday huddling with his foreign policy advisers. that followed by a meeting with the rnc and chairman reince priebus to talk about convention rules and delegates, which trump described as a, quote, unity meeting. on top of their meetings, trump and his team were also doing damage control after his widely condemned comments on abortion. in an interview on fox news last night, trump seemed to suggest his comments were taken out of context. >> now, we know you have since clarified your point in written statements. >> you really had to hear the whole thing. this was a long, convoluted question, a long discussion. they caught it out, and frankly,
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it was extremely -- it was really convoluted. if in fact abortion was outlawed, the person performing the abortion, the doctor or whoever it may be, that's really doing the act is responsible for the act, not the woman is responsible. so that's the way i have always felt. i have had the same stance exactly as ronald reagan. i mean, i have had it and had it from the beginning. my stance is the exact same as ronald reagan. >> a lot of people are making hay out of this. i'm trying to figure out, did you misspeak or did you misunderstand the question? >> this was a long, convoluted subject. we talked about catholicism and his religion, and chris went back and forth about that. this was a very long, convoluted discussion, which frankly, they don't run on television because it's too long. >> msnbc has responded, saying, the town hall interview with donald trump was taped in advance, and then aired in its
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entirety. absolutely no part of the exchange between trump and chris matthews was edited out. and just to prove it, we're going to once again play trump's full exchange with chris matthews. >> if you say abortion is a crime, or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> well, people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say it's a very serious problem. and it's a problem we have to decide on. it's very -- >> you're for banning it. >> are you going to say put them in jail? >> no, i'm asking you. you say you want to ban it. what does that mean? >> i'm against -- i am pro-life. >> how do you ban abortion? how do you do it? >> you know, you go back to a position where they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places. >> yeah. >> but you have to ban it. >> but the churches make their moral judgments, but you running
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for president of the united states will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> f the woman? >> some form. >> ten cents, ten years? >> i don't know. >> why snot? you take positions on everything else? >> i do. it's a very complicated position. >> a fine, imprinment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> what about the guy w gets her pregnant? is he responsible or not responsible for the abortion decision? >> it hasn't -- different feeli feelings, different people. i would say no. >> we'll have more on the fall-out over those comments. first, let's go to nbc's luke russert outside the rnc headquarters in washington. luke, obviously, this morning, people are trying to get more intel on what happened in that meeting. it's been described as a surprise, but chuck todd noted this was a planned meeting between the rnc and donald
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trump. >> yeah, tamron, it was a surprise to the journalists who covered donald trump, and we got a tipoff for the yesterday. i cover capitol hill as a day beat, and that's a stone's throw away from here in the rnc. what we found out is that rnc officials ran into donald trump last week in new york. donald trump said he was going to be in washington for a foreign policy meeting, he would like to stop by. they then had an hour-long meeting which rnc official s as well as sources in the trump campaign tell nbc new delegate math was discussed. this also comes on the heels, tamron, of the rnc launching an official website about the delegates rules and what's at stake in cleveland come july. donald trump characterized the meeting such as this from a tweet, just had a very nice meeting with reince priebus, the chairman, and the gop looking forward to bringing the party together, and it will happen. we're also told party unity was on the docket at the meeting. that's something the rnc will be stressing moving forward.
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there's the stop trump movement within the republican party. one other thing, though, that the folks in the building behind me really work on. they work long hours trying to preserve their senate and house majorities. i can tell you from conversations with them, there is a fear what a trump nomination could do to those house and senate majorities. it will be interesting to see what role the rnc plays in that if trump is to become the presumptive nominee. we may have to run away from you at some degree, this and that, we can't go all in on everything you say, as you just played the abortion comments. what the rnc does with trump will be the story moving forward. if he cozzadoesn't have enough delegates, they'll have quite a show on their hands, and the person in charge of that, tamron, speaking of the house, paul ryan, the chairman of the convention. when he took the role, he thought it was a celebratory position. it will be very serious in july if it's contested. >> indeed. donald trump tweeted out after
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the meeting, just had a very nice meeting with reince priebus and the gop. looking forward to bringing the party together. it will happen. the question is who had the upper hand in that meeting? what are you hearing from sources, or does anyone at this point have an upper hand when you're looking at the rnc and donald trump. they both need each other. >> it's hard to say who's had the upper hand with donald trump because he's not been able to be stopped by anybody within his party so far. they have tried pretty much every trick in the book. they're going to continue to try, so much so that you see the establishment coalescing around somebody like ted cruz. we have talked about cruz has been the proverbial thorn in the side of the establishment, the leadership on capitol hill for some time. what the rnc does specifically is they have e-mail lists, they have donor bases. they have a lot of the mechanizations you're going to need to run a national campaign. if donald trump is the nominee, he's going to have to walk hand
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in hand with the rnc. hels why he's not going to be too overly critical. what else did he do this week? he walked away from the loyalty pledge, saying he would not perhaps support the presumptive nominee. that will be the big question moving forward, will he support the eventual nominee if it's not himself, how hard will he play if it's done kesed, what will the delegate rules look like, and how much does the rnc work with him with done ebases, voter i.d. profiles and all that, and a whether or not they run away from him to preserve the house and senate. >> in the meantime, you have wisconsin in the middle of all of this. and we'll see what those voters in the state say there. thank you very much, luke. let me bring in msnbc analyst and former rnc general council ben ginsberg, and nbc analyst and former adviser to rand paul's campaign, elise jordan. it bears reminding to around, we have a lot of voting, but when you look at the delegate math,
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donald trump appears to be the one who will get if not the number needed, very close to it. but there's still a lot of voting. ben, this meeting yesterday, the "new york times" says that while trump is trying to paint it as a unity meeting, inside, however, it was more of a clearing of the air, according to three people briefed in detail on the discussion, priebus laid out for the party's front-runner the need for the committee and mr. trump's campaign to have a good relationship. i know you were not in that meeting. but if you can, how do you think that this played out? the laying out of this need to have a good relationship, and how extraordinary is it that the party would have to have this conversation with their front-runner? >> well, it's pretty extraordinary. i mean, four years ago, this was the week that the rnc basically said, okay, mitt romney, you're the presumptive nominee. we're going to start working with you to raise money. the very fact that there needed
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to be a unity meeting is categorically different from the way it's been from the last few cycles. i think what you know about -- we don't know what the tone in the meeting was. or what it was. what we do know is that the rnc felt the need to leak the meeting and to talk about it on the pages of the "new york times." and the hieroglyphics of that is that the story has gone through numerous revisions in the last 12 hours. with different paragraphs in and out. but it is unlikely that the trump campaign would have talked about throwing their own staff under the bus if they were the ones leaking the article. >> and that's a great point, elise. you have these leaks now coming out, in a sense, jockeying and donald trump, the guy who seems to put everything out there in artful terms, wording, oftentimes, really quiet about this meeting. it was a nice meeting. >> i think it's a very shaky week for him and his power is really -- he's seen a lot of it go away over the past week of
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this narrative solidifying that he's antiwomen and starting to see the problem of going into a general election when almost three quarteroffs american women hold an unfavorable view. he can't win a general election if women disapprove of him that soundly. he's going in on shaky footing. he's starting to realize that he needs the rnc. you see donald trump for once trying to be conciliatory, and he doesn't have as much power to throw around as he has previously. >> that is interesting that he may finally and his team may finally realize that it is not just the cult of personality, not just this movement that seems to have intoxicated his campaign. it's the reality that politics is bigger than trump. >> well, and also, he really needs the rnc to finance a general election campaign. he really -- you know, he had all this bravado about how he's self-financing and that's not true, but he really is going to have to get the rnc to get their big donors to open up their wallets. >> and clarify that issue as he
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younted he is not self fnlsfnls as he reports. >> he had a ton of grassroots donations. he's third or fourth in terms of grassroots donors. millions of dollars. around 66% of his campaign. he's loaned the campaign money, but he's hoping to get that paid b back by the rnc. he's in a tough spot. he may be overleveraged. >> let's talk about this weekend. north dakota, you're going to be at the gop convention there. there's a lot of discussion about the delegates and how north dakota and the delegates will step into the spotlight. our team is reporting the the state's lack of a presidential caucus and a primary and a quirky rule as it describes it, leaves delegates to vote as they please in july's convention. explain that. >> so five states decided that they wanted to have unbound delegates. the states that have state-wide primaries or state-wide caucuses
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where their presidential preferences voted upon, must be bound according to those votes. so five states, north dakota, colorado, and wyoming, coming right up in the next three weeks are among them. so because there is no state-wide presidential preference vote in north dakota, those delegates will be unbound. and therefore, if donald trump is short of a majority, those are going to be very valuable delegates that he and everyone else will try to woo. >> it's interesting, elise, and ben describes in great detail how this plays out. for a lot of people, this is the first time that bound or unbound delegates is even on their radar. often when you hear this information, you hear the everyday voter believe that it's shadowing, kind of dodgy. and donald trump even threatened, as you know, to sue louisiana because he won the vote and lost the delegate count there. >> it really plays into donald trump's narrative of the establishment being so corrupt
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that they're willing to deny him a fair nomination that he's earned when in fact according to the rules, if he doesn't get 1237 delegates, he's not going to win it. because it's such a convoluted process, that's where he has an advantage. >> he's already threatened one lawsuit. we had bobby jindal, the former governor of louisiana on with chuck todd, i believe, yesterday. let's play a little of what he said regarding what went down in louisiana. >> let's actually look at what happened. trump got about 40% of the votes in louisiana. he'll get 40% of the delegates. what happened is there were, for example, five delegates committed to marco rubio, cruz was able to go and convince them now that rubio is no longer running to switch their support to him. there were five uncommitted delegates. his folks were also able to convince them to switch their support to cruz. so quite frankly, cruz outworked, outorganized donald trump on the ground here. the reality is these rules were in place before donald trump was a candidate.
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>> and ben, that may all well be true, but in reality, when you think about the millions of people donald trump points out who have supported him, who don't know the nuanced language, how do you believe this plays to them? >> well, i believe it plays on one level to what he said, and on the other level, governor jindal is exactly right. look, donald trump has hired some really good professionals in the past week. in recognition of the fact that actually the way governor jindal described things is correct. there is now a process in many state conventions to figure out who the delegates are actually going to be. those delegates will be bound by rules once they get to cleveland. but for right now, it's true that the campaigns need to be winning their supporters' delegates slots. >> how do you rate donald trump's week? we had the banner, good, bad, very bad, the worst ever. using language and exaggerations he's prone to in description,
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how do you describe it? >> hugely bad, the worst ever, i really think. i don't think he's had as devastating of a week as this past week. and the confluence of event. i think it's lingering damage and a lingering stain against women voters that isn't going to go away. >> ben, when you look at not only the numbers out of wisconsin, and we'll talk about why ted cruz may be doing well, because he has the support of the conservative radio, which is influential in wisconsin. when you look again at the national numbers and as elise points out, rightfully, donald trump's disapproval number or negatives with women, how do you describe this week he's had? >> well, one that they wished was better than this one was. so there are unforced errors that plague every campaign. donald trump certainly had his share this week. the campaigns that win recognize that there are peaks and valleys. you just try and stay even throughout it. that's what his campaign has to do. as all the others do, week in
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and week out. >> this sunday, and i'm sure he will find his way to one of the morning programs, does he again say he perhaps in his words maybe misspoke and allege again that a tape that msnbc clearly says was not edited, does he stick to that line? >> oh, i'm not sure. i mean, i think that's a question for him. my guess is that the way this week has moved, there will be an entirely different subject we'll be talking about on sunday. >> elise, you have worked with rand paul's campaign. you're advising donald trump, do you continue to say you maybe misspoke or that the tape was edited? is that the way to get out of that box. >> no, i think that lying here is very bad for him. and he needs to just try to move forward. and try to show that he's actually being educated on issues that matter to republican voters. >> thank you both for your time. coming up, donald trump's interview with a conservative radio host in wisconsin. the man who did that interview will join us live to discuss the
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effort to keep thump from getting the nomination, and the influence conservative radio has in wisconsin. and how it could impact the race tuesday. some say "free the whales." for them, nothing else is acceptable. but nothing could be worse for the whales. most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killerhale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest
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we're following breaking news. president obama addressing officials at the nuclear security summit. he's expected to discuss progress that's been made in implementing the iran nuclear deal. right now he's talking about nuclear security. let's listen in. >> -- the largest project in history to remove nuclear material from a country. i'm also pleased to announce that in recent days after many years of work, 102 nations have now ratified a key treaty, a
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convention on the physical protection of nuclear material. as a result, we expect that the treaty will enter into force in the coming weeks, giving us more tools we need to work together in the event of theft of nuclear material or an attack on a nuclear facility. several of the nations here made the extra effort in recent weeks to complete this process in time for this summit. i want to thank you very much for helping us get over the line. once again, i'm making it clear that the united states will continue to do our part. today, we're releasing a detailed description of the security measures our military takes to protect nuclear materials so that other nations can improve their security and transparency as well. for the first time in a decade, we're providing a public inventory of our stockpiles of highly enriched uranium which could be used for nuclear weapons, and that inventory is one we have reduced considerably. when it comes to our nuclear powered ships and submarines, we're exploring ways to further
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reduce our holdings of highly enriched uranium. in short, everybody has been participating, and by working together, our nations have made it harder for terrorists to get their hands on nuclear material. we have measurably reduced the risk. but as we discussed at last nig night's dinner, the threat of nuclear terrorism persists and continues to evolve. fortunately, because of our coordinated efforts, no terrorist group has succeeded thus far in obtaining a nuclear weapon or a dirty bomb made of radioactive materials. but we know that al qaeda has long sought nuclear materials, individuals involved in the attacks in paris and brussels, videotaped a senior manager who works at a belgian nuclear facility. isil has already used chemical weapons, including mustard gas in syria and iraq. there is no doubt that if these mad men ever got their hands on a nuclear bomb or nuclear material, they most certainly would use it to kill as many
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innocent people as possible. and that's why our work here remains so critical. the single most effective defense against nuclear terrorism is fully securing this material so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands in the first place. this is difficult, that hundreds of military and civilian facilities around the world, there are still roughly 2,000 tons of nuclear materials and not all of this is properly secured. in just the smallest amount of plutonium, about the size of an apple, could kill and injure thun injure hundreds of thousands of innocent people. it would be a humanitarian, political, economic, and environmental catastrophe with global ramifications for decades. it would change our world. so we cannot be complacent. we have to build on our progress. we have to commit to better security and nuclear facilities, to removing or disposing of more dangerous material, to bringing more nation into treaties and partnerships that prevent
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proliferation and smuggling. and to make sure that we have the architecture in place to sustain our momentum in the years ahead. with so many members of the global coalition against isil here today, this will also be an opportunity to make sure that we're doing everything in our power to keep a terrorist group like isil from ever getting its hands not just on a nuclear weapon but any weapon of mass destruction. so i am very appreciative of the excellent work that's been done and the excellent conversation we had last night. with that, what i would like to do is invite prime minister of the netherlands to review some of the specific progress that we have made since our last summit. mark. >> mr. president -- >> we're listening to president obama with leaders of the p5+1, obviously focused on nuclear security at this summit held in washington, d.c. the president stressing that we
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cannot be complacent, as it relates to the nuclear security situation. and quite honestly, proliferation of a nuclear weapon. the president heavily focused on this, as you well know, this has been a topic as well oz the campaign trail with controversial comments from donald trump at his msnbc town hall on whether he would use nuclear weapons against europe, whether he would use nuclear weapons in an effort to defeat isis as well. a different tenor and tone at this summit represented by leaders of the p5+1, and the international ataomic energy agency. we'll continue to follow that and bring you the updates there. meanwhile, as the stop trump movement in wisconsin tries to prevent the republican front-runner from reaching that number of 1,237, a pro-trump super pac is rolling out a new ad aimed at women in the badger state. it's airing this weekend.
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here's a look at it. >> paris, san bernardino, and now brussels. i want a president that will keep us safe. we need to control our borders and stop letting in dangerous people. trump will do that. and ted cruz, he wanted to let in more syrian refugees and give amnesty to illegal immigrants. that won't protect my family. >> nbc's chris jansing joins me from milwaukee, wisconsin, and chris, all week long, we have been talking about the influence of conservative radio, local conservative radio, in that state versus some of the bigger national names that we have come to know. it's a very interesting part of what could play out on tuesday. >> we have never seen anything like this, tamron. the establishment led by talk radio, with this anti-trump movement, going against the gop front-runner, and not just in a sort of usual talk show way, but in a vitriolic and really impassioned way. they're at least four big talk show hosts here led by charlie sykes, who did an interview with
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donald trump on monday. people are still talking about it. talking about the fact that trump went on three of the four big talk shows and didn't even seem to know they had been trying to stop him for months now with this movement. and add to that, he came to town, he talked badly about the governor, who is very popular here among the base. he's only in the 40s across wisconsin. but among the republican base, he's got an approval rating of 70%, 80%. then there's paul ryan, of course, the speaker of the house, extraordinarily popular here. comes here, says bad things about him. it has a lot of other influencers, i talking about people who have been on the ground in this campaigns for a long time, people who run the business community, who say that they are now part of this anti-stop trump movement in spite of the facts they're not crazy about ted cruz, they're determined to do what they want to do to stop donald trump. i sat down with charlie sykes, the most influential talk show
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radio guy here, just about an hour ago. i said, look, donald trump has had controversial things before. why now, why wisconsin? here's what he told me. >> the electorate here pays attention. they understand what a conservative really is about. and so when somebody like donald trump comes in here, i think the bs meter goes off. >> so why do you think the abortion statement resonated? >> i'm not sure that that's going to have as big an effect on next tuesday's primary as you might think. he's got a locked in 30%. you know, support. he's been under water with women. conservative women have already bailed on him. i think what was exposed in that exchange is there's no there there. he's not thought about this issue. on issue after issue, he basically says what he thinks a conservative pro-life person would sound like, but he really has no idea. >> when you have a 77%
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disapproval rating among women, you just can't win anywhere, let alone in wisconsin. the question really is, tamron, i think, whether or not that will -- there will be momentum for ted cruz if he has a big win here in wisconsin, that will carry him to some unexpected results in places like new york and pennsylvania that right now heavily favor donald trump. >> all right, chris, thank you very much. it will be an exciting weekend there, and certainly a potentially explosive tuesday. >> coming up, hillary clinton, speaking of explosive, lashes out as a green peace activist who accuses her of accepting money from the fossil fuel industry. >> i am so sick, i am so sick of the sanders campaign lying about that. >> campaign is saying now about that encounter and their message to senator bernie sanders. the latest is next. m,
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hillary clinton lashed out at a bernie sanders supporter yesterday, accusing them of, quote, lying about her, after a rally in new york yesterday, clinton angrily responded to a green peace activist who confronted her about campaign contributions. green peace later posted video of the exchange. >> will you act on your words to reject fossil fuel money in the future in your campaign. >> i do not have -- i have money from -- i am so sick, so sick of the sanders campaign lying about this. >> well, the sanders campaign issued a statement shortly after that video hit the web. they point to a green peace analysis claiming clinton's received contributions from 57 oil, gas, and coal industry lobbyists, the clinton campaign responded saying by that same metric, senator sander has
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received more than $50,000 from individuals working for oil and gas companies. msnbc's alex seitz-wald has been covering the clinton campaign, and interesting moment to see play out with the song, this is her fight song, playing behind, from the imaging standpoint, we know that it seems that hillary clinton, according to her supporters, scrutinized in a different way when she appears angry. what is the campaign saying about this moment? >> clearly, this attack has gotten under her skin. she's been asked about it several times by environmental activists. but basically, what they're saying is yes, she's taken money, but just from employee whose happen to work for oil and gas companies and so has senator sanders. she's taken more, however, and they also say, you know, if sanders is alleging that some kind of quid pro quo, where is the quo? she's been against having fossil fuel companies expand their production. she's been wanting to crack down on them, a leader on climate change. so there's nothing to this is
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the allegation they're making. really quick, both of these campaigns are looking ahead to wisconsin on tuesday. clinton recently added an event there tomorrow. she's looking at these polling, showing it very close. with sanders about five points ahead, a new fox business poll showing it 48%/43%. she wants tocopy that margin tight, prevent sanders from winning too many delegates, or ideally winning herself, even though he's a little ahead. this issue about donations is going to be one dominating going forward. we have already duked it out on wall street reform, on guns, and 93 we'll talk about fossil fuel and oil and gas for a while, i imagine. >> it's interesting as well, i know that the campaign is focused on wisconsin. she still, though, campaigning in new york. before turning her attention to wisconsin. the populist message of bernie sanders certainly has resonated in wisconsin. but you keep hearing, if she loses new york, or if it's close, how devastating that could be, not by the math, but by the momentum again. >> right. i mean, new york is her home
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state. it's where she was elected twice to the senate. it's where her campaign headquarters are. it's where she announced her presidential campaign. so she does need to win there. she needs to win big, i think, from a momentum point of view. also from a delegate point of view, the second largest delegate haul of the map, 237 delegates. e margin is critical there. 1 percentage point can win you two to three or four delegates. the larger she can make the win against bernie sanders, the more she can begin to put him away and look to end this. >> thank you very much. developing now, ohio governor, presidential candidate john kasich speaking in hearrsh, pennsylvania, at a rally there. we're monitoring his comments. let's lissing in. >> wanted 132, and i wanted 13. i had a cave. i had a compromise. we went to 21. okay. it cost a billion dollars apiece, and i thought it was -- i thought it was an extravagant
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waste of money based on the initial mission. and so we saved a ton of money. that money was put into other things that we needed more. when it comes to the pentagon, let me tell you that we have, i think we have 800,000 people in the pentagon performing bureaucratic functions. 800,000. and we have weapons systems that come in way above cost and way behind time. john mccain, who is a terrific man, john mccain has now put the service chiefs in charge of the weapons. i think that's now law where the service chiefs are held responsible, personally responsible, for bringing these systems in under budget and on time. you have to reform the pentagon. i'm putting $100 billion more into rebuilding the military in my budget plan. but you have to fix the building because she's right. they can waste money like you
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cannot believe. and it needs to be cleaned up. now, how do you do it? here's the problem. if you go in there and you're the secretary of defense and your team is too tough, you'll fail. if you go in there and you're too easy, they'll just run right over you. you have to have some of the best managers you can find who can bring about the reform while you're rebuilding the pentagon. i tell you, it's going to be key personnel decisions. i'll give you another couple. we need a key personnel decision around the veterans administration. it's not working. we need -- we need a key person to take over the irs because we have lost faith in it. we think they have become political. we're going to have to have some of the leaders that are going to get people to rise to a higher purpose. and i think about this, and do i think we can find them? yes, but i don't think it's going to be easy. i have a couple people in mind
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for all of these jobs. one of the things we need is more lee iacocas. we need more people that we trust. young people say, lee -- i don't know who that is. okay. i got that, but we need more people, we need more bill gates, who the public trusts, who if they take on a job, we're going to have confidence they're going to do the best they can. that's how we want to pick a president as well. so it's -- ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around.
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because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority: you ahead of tuesday's wisconsin primary, both bernie sanders and donald trump are using their populist platforms to appeal to voters, the widespread anti-establishment sentiment grows. >> from coast to coast, people are sitting there and thinking about these issues and what they are concluding, i believe, is we need a government today that represents all of us. >> there is something happening. it's like a movement. it's incredible. it's a movement. and we're part of the movement. it's not me.
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i'm a messenger. >> but why is sanders' message resonating with wisconsin voters while trump seems to be falling behind in the poles. joining me is ruth conniff. >> good to be with you. >> i think the quickest way some days to get a mean tweet is to compare bernie sanders and donald trump. sanders supporters take great offense to that. however, there is a populist message that is similar and a tonal tenor that is very different, we know, with these campaigns. how do you see this playing out in wisconsin for both of them? >> i think that sanders is very likely to win in wisconsin. he's up in the marquette poll, which is the gold standard of polls in the state against hillary clinton. and trump is way behind cruz. one thing that's going to be different is sanders is going to come out of here with a win in wisconsin and trump is not. but their messages are very interesting. you're right. they hit on some similar themes, and particularly here in wisconsin, part of which is the rust belt, they talk about trade
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and how free trade agreements have devastated manufacturing. and that's a message that resonates very strongly with people in wisconsin, particularly in outlying areas of the state, maybe not milwaukee where the anti-trump for forces are, the establishment, scott walker, the right wing talkers are really anti-trump. when he gave a speech in janesville, wisconsin, people lined up for hours and were open to his message about nafta being a disaster, walker presiding over a bad economy. in that way, the messages are similar. that's kind of where it ends. trump is rallying up a violent, angry sentiment. sanders, i went to his rally the other day, and it could not have been more peaceful and positive. >> that's what we pointed out and many others. the tone certainly at least what you see visually and what you see play out in some of the violence there, but going back to the core of the message, how does it -- how are these campaigns similar in the way that wisconsin has responded to
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them? >> well, i think trade is the key issue. i think jobs. i think talking about the failure of establishment politics and establishment economics to really serve working class people. that's very demonstrably true for a lot of folks here. you see a lot of similarity, but in the end, the trump campaign is about one guy, donald trump. a cult of personality. even that clip you played where he talks about this is a movement, it's not about me. he quickly segued to talk about how himself. bernie sanders is talk about how people need to seize control of their democracy, and he's inspiring people who are his fans and his followers to try to do something to overcome the power of money in politics. very different message there. >> using the word over, as you pointed out, there are people who say both of these campaigns oversell what they can do. both of these candidates profess to be able to accomplish things that they cannot. it may sound good related to some voters, but in reality,
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they cannot put together the pieces to make these proposals a reality, whether it's building a wall or free tuition. >> well, i would say that donald trump is pretty light on detail. he just threw sheer force of his trumpness, he says he's going to get the stuff done. there's a not a lot of detail. bernie sanders says, look, you have to aim high. people can actually regain control of the democracy through a grassroots movement. actually, i think that may or may not be possible in 2016, but is sort of the only path for progressive politics, that there has to be a path in which people who don't have a ton of money, who respond to these call and response rallies to say it's $27, the average contribution to sanders, the regular folks of america can regain control of politics and make the government work for ordinary people. that's a different message. now, whether that's attainable with a republican congress or what the details are, if sanders were to be the nominee, i mean,
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that's sort of a workman like question about the next couple of years. but he's talking about really a long-term prospect for populist politics. >> ruth, always a pleasure speaking with you. thank you so much for talking with us. again, tuesday will be interesting for both of those campaigns. perhaps for different reasons. thank you. coming up, a former attorney for the infamous d.c. madam claims to have records that he says will change the election. that's coming up next. there are two billion people
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vowing to release information he claims will change the presidential race. kristen welker has that story. >> reporter: tamron, good morning. could the 2016 race change? the dc madam scandal fights to release records and he's gone all the way to the supreme court. could be yet another twist in the ruckus rate. >> my name is sibley. >> he's that attorney who filed an application with the supreme court asking the court to allow him to release records from the dc madam escort service. names and phone numbers tied up due to a restraining order. say time is of the essence. without offering specifics,
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sibley has stirred up a frenzy of speculation with this cliff hanger. >> those records contain information relevant to the 2016 presidential election. >> in this online video posted last month, sibley asks for donations for his mounting legal fees after lower courts denied his requests. >> i must continue this fight. >> reporter: this all started in 2007 when the dc madam scandal broke rocking the nation's capital, even bringing down david bitter. >> i want to offer my deep sincere apologies to all those i have let down and disappointed with these actions from my past. i am completely responsible and i'm so very, very sorry. >> the woman known as the dc madam, debra jayne, committed suicide after she was convicted of racketeering and other offenses. since then, sibley said he's been sitting on a number of
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documents including some 800 client names and 5,000 phone numbers and he's vowed to release them no matter what the court decides. >> i am the custodian of the records of that escort service. >> reporter: the question this morning in a race filled with so many stunning moments, could there be yet another one? in 2008, sibley had his license to practice law suspended to filing a number of meritless lawsuits. for the latest case, he tells nbc news said i have nothing to add until the chief justice has an opportunity to consider my application as the application has not been even docketed yet. he deserves until the middle of next week before i comment again. >> kristen, thank you. that does it for this hour of "msnbc live." thank you so much for joining us all week long. we'll see you on monday. up next, "andrea mitchell reports."
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bernie from the block. sanders gaining ground, growing mega crowds in the guy from brooklyn. >> i'm glad for support. our guy, voting for brooklyn. bk, where you at? it's brooklyn in the house. >> thank you, south bronx. >> firing back as the race tightens. hillary clinton is showing the strain. >> i'm sick of sanders campaign lying about me. i'm sick of it. >> donald trump's horrible week. can he get back in wisconsin or will the stop trump movement gain steam? >> i think

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