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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 1, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT

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battery, that same day trump appears to peel back that paper promise he made pledging to support the eventual gop nominee. wednesday, trump managed to unite opponents on both sides of the abortion debate against him with his suggestion that women who seek an abortion should be punished. trump recanted that statement and then tried to claim it was edited. >> you ought to hear the whole thing. this is a long convoluted question. this was a long discussion and they just cut it out and, frankly, it was extremely -- it was really convoluted. >> msnbc, of course, did not edit any portion of that interview. but today, trump's one time rival turned supporter dr. ben carson says that should be the end of it. >> he did realize that he made a mistake and he corrected it. i think that's better than somebody who makes the mistake and then doubles down and triples down on it. >> looking ahead, the primary
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tea leaves do favor donald trump beyond wisconsin. the question then becomes, can the billionaire businessman turn around record unfavorability ratings with women voters in time to be a viable candidate come november in a general election? that is just one of the myriad angles we've got covered on the 2016 trail today. we've got our four reporters fanned out. we start with nbc's chris jansing in milwaukee. writers for "the washington post," writers for t"the wall street journal" are saying that wisconsin could be donald trump's waterloo. what are you hearing from folks on the ground there? >> i'll tell you, the establishment that is working for months to make it the waterloo are counting on it. they're thrilled by what they see in the poll. they believe that this is going to be a turning point in this campaign. the question is turning to what? look, we never seen anything like. this the establishment republicans going so vehemently against the leader in a nam
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natu nominating race. you have the governor who backed ted cruz. you have the speaker of the house who is from wisconsin and had very negative things to say about the tone of this campaign. you have a lot of business leaders that i talked to, influencers, people involved in campaigns for a long time. they're concerned on a policy level that they don't really know what donald trump stands for. but leading the charge without a doubt, won servetiv doubt, conservative talk radio. in most of the rest of the country and they have been united in what has been absolutely opposition to donald trump. i sat down with one of them, charlie sykes and i asked him about the abortion controversy with the interview from chris matthews. here's what he told me. >> what is happening though is when he says things like that, it solidifies the anti-trump vote. but i think the more important thing was on that, i think what
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was exposed in that exchange was there's no there there. he has not thought about this issue. on issue after issue sh he basically says what he thinks a conservative pro-life person would sound like but he really has no idea. >> the people i talk to believe there is no doubt cruz will win here and they're best case sen oth scenario they go to the convention and have someone else take it from donald trump on the second, third ballot or the tenth or 15th. >> chris, the headline of "the new york times" today, i'm sure you've seen it, gop fears donald trump as zombie candidate, damaged but unstoppable. is that the sense you're getting on the ground there in wisconsin, that folks can slow him down, perhaps, but the nomination itself is inevitable? >> look, these are very tuned in political people. they get what's going on in the rest of the country. they know that he's he goes to
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new york and pennsylvania, he's favored. the goal is to keep him from getting a number of delegates. i just got off the phone with a mover and shaker here who said if we're going throes, we want to lose with dignity. because if you go with trump, you're doomed. i said what do you mean lose with dignity? what they're worried is the down ballot races in places like this where they have a very hotly contested supreme court race, where they have a lot of hotly contested race for the state legislature and, of course, the u.s. house and senate. so they're concerned about that. they are really worried about the potential of a donald trump being the nominee. >> chris jansing in milwaukee, wisconsin for us on this friday afternoon. thank you. >> donald trump has had an ever shifting explanation for his abortion comments and that n. that msnbc town hall. he told "the new york times," "if you answer one question inartfully, or incorrectly in some form, or you mrd it or you misspoke, it ends up being a big story."
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later that day sh he offered and entirely different explanation to fox news suggesting that msnbc improperly edited the tape. >> you really ought to hear the whole thing. this is a long convoluted question. this was a long discussion and they just cut it out and frankly, it was extremely -- it was really convoluted. and if, in fact, abortion was outlawed, the person performing abortion, the doctor or whoever it may be, that's really doing the act that is responsible for the act is responsible, not the woman. so that's the way i've always felt. i had the same -- i've had the same stance exactly as ronald reagan. i mean i've had it and i've had it from the beginning. >> for the record, msnbc strongly denies the charge of et i h editing the tape and saying the town hall interview was taped in advance and then aired in the entirety. absolutely no part of the exchange between trump and chris matthews was edited out.
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katrina pierson is the spokesperson for the trump campaign. always good to see you. thank you for being with me. >> great to be here. >> why can't donald trump settle on one answer and just admit he answered inartfully and leave it at that? why claim it was edited when we know that is not the case? >> i think a lot of this is stemming from the actual media fallout. at first, there were reports that mr. trump called for an outright ban of abortion which was simply not true. and then secondly, he did clarify the statement when it came to this hypothetical context of illegal abortions which even today in the reporting, the media including this network has been saying that donald trump said that women should be punished for having an abortion, not an illegal abortion which was exactly the context. so when you have a lot of confusion and media headlines, you're going to get different responses. >> but the fact that he said we edited the tape, that's not true.
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and the campaign has yet to acknowledge that it's not true. and so i want to give you the opportunity of saying, you know what? we were wrong. you didn't edit the tape. >> well, honestly, i don't know if the tape was edited. if someone is saying that he called for an abortion ban, then something definitely went wrong. i'm happy to go back and check and make sure for you. >> we should also let viewers know that tape is -- the exchange itself is up on msnbc.com. they can watch it. let's talk about these poll numbers. i'm sure you've seen these poll numbers, specifically among female voters. doesn't matter which polli it i. mitt romney's unfavorables with women, just over 50%. he lost. how do you win an election with unfavorable numbers north of 70% with female voters? >> first, i think that number will definitely change. but secondly -- >> based on what?
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>> secondly, i'd like to point out that this is not your typical election cycle. we're still reporting based upon conventional wisdom of previous election cycles. the negatives were high at the beginning of the republican primary. and he turned that around. he's going to do the same in the general election and i'll also point out the unfavorable numbers, hillary clinton and ted cruz are up side down in that area. we'll have at least six months to get out there with mr. trump's policies to make america great again and convince women he is the best decision in 2016 to get the economy turned around, education back to the states and -- >> we're talking north of 70%, katrina. you've been in the political game a long time. those are substantial unfavorables. how does he turn it around in five or six months when the numbers seem to be going south? especially in wisconsin, hasn't picked up a single point since the last poll in february. >> he'll continue to campaign. he's going to get out there and talk about his message. more importantly, lifting the
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veil on hillary clinton. hillary clinton is no champion of women. we're going to have an opportunity to go head-to-head with hillary clinton and women are going to make a decision on the policies that are best for women. not a personality conflict. not some politically correct campaign, but to issues that actually affect them and their families. >> not just women. u unfavorable numbers high among other groups as well. these poll numbers were released earlier this month. three quarters of moderates have an unfavorable view. same goes true for folks 18 to 24. african-american voters, hispanic voters and eye majority of white evangelical protestants view him unfavorably. how does he possibly beat hillary clinton, assuming he gets the nomination, how does he do it with numbers like that? >> well, simply because polls are just snapshots in time. if you look at the elections we've already had, even with
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high unfavorability numbers, people are voting for mr. trump, whether it's young people, evangelicals and moderates. mr. trump is winning those populations in states that we have had votes already. that's going to continue in the general. >> he's not winning any minority voters. >> yes, he is. >> look in florida. look in nevada. he won the hispanic vote in nevada. he came in second in puerto rico. he came in second in florida for crying out loud plchlt tru. mr. trump is winning voters. >> that's a very small number. >> but he's winning. what is going to happen in the general when we can focus on general election toptopics, you see the numbers change. >> let's talk about a huge topic of conversation, not just inside the beltway. a lot of folks starting to pay attention to the fight over delegates. reports out today that delegates are ready to flee him out of the convention in cleveland. more than 100 poised to break
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from him on a second ballot. despite winning louisiana, the campaign poised to get fewer delegates. there the same could be true in massachusetts. there's a fight for delegates in that state now as well. if your campaign doesn't win on the first ballot, what makes donald trump better positioned than a john kasich or a ted cruz at winning a drawn out convention? >> well, we do have teams on the ground despite what the reports say. we've been hearing for a very long time that donald trump doesn't have a ground game and, yet, he's winning. delegates are the name of the game in this race. and we are competing accordingly despite what the reports say. we're confident moving forward and i know everyone is talking about wisconsin being the game changer when the reality is every state after that is really poised for donald trump. we are confident. we are going to get the delegates. so that it doesn't go to a second ballot. >> you have to win 60% of all outstanding delegates if you drop the ball tuesday in wisconsin. donald trump can do that?
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>> donald trump will absolutely be able to do that. i'm very confident sh yes. >> all right. katrina pierson, trump campaign spokeswoman with us from dallas, texas. thank you for your time. >> great to be here. >> and, again, a quick note for anyone who wants to watch that entire exchange between chris matthews and donald trump, kit be found in the hard ball section of our website, msnbc.com. encourage you to take a look. let's bring in some analysis here. republican strategist, former campaign manage for mike huckabee. molly ball covers politics. good to see both of you. let's start with that charlie siccs interview. charlie says that the trump was already so underwater with women that those abortion remarks really didn't damage trump's base at all. what then did it do, chip? >> well, it gave doubt. and when you're going into a week that you got a big contest in front of you, the last thing you want to do is have any doubt. i would say this, thiss one of the few weeks that donald trump
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had a bad campaign week. but he had a bat one right before a big contest. obviously, i think they're getting prepared. i think katrina did a good job talking about what's next. i don't think they're going to win on tuesday. but then they have to worry about new york which is a good state for them and move to the northeast. i mean, i think what those comments did was dominate the week, move past wisconsin and get to the northeast. that will be the trump campaign plan. >> you still think he can do this thing before the convention? >> yeah. i mean, look, at the end of the day -- >> even with losing wisconsin? >> yeah, at the end of the day, today he need 52% of the delegates to get. there ted cruz needs 85%. that's with a big state like new york ahead. a big state like california ahead. donald trump's in the best position. look, the campaigns are all fanned out across the country as you've been reporting because this is going to get -- this this is not inside baseball anymore. it's moving inside the dugout. this is about delegates and the ones bound for one ballot. there are states going to be deciding who the delegates are. this is almost moving past the
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convention -- i mean past the states and going right to the delegates. i think that's what everybody is preparing for. >> molly, i want to play this new pro trump tv ad. this is an ad that is clearly aimed at female voters in wisconsin. take a look. >> sure, i get some grief when i say i'm voting for donald trump. you know what i want to protect my family. par paris, san bernardino and now brussels? i want a president that will keep us safe. we have to control our borders and stop letting in dangerous people. trump will do that. >> washington journalist april ryan noted yesterday on our air that she thought the ad itself was perhaps a "saturday night live" spoof. is that the kind of ad that's really going to help donald trump overcome his deficit with women voters specifically in wisconsin? >> well, it's interesting that it's couched in such a defensive manner, right? the ad acknowledges at the outset that a lot of people don't like donald trump, that even some of his own supporters
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get grief for it from their friends and neighbors or may even be embarrassed about it. but they're trying to at least mount this alternative argument. i don't think trump himself is very good at putting out there. that regardless of how you feel about the man personally, it's based on his policies that you can vote for him. that's what you do hear from the small percentage of women republican primary voters who do support him is all that stuff he says, those are just words. they may be offensive to a lot of people. but what's important is what he says he's going to do. what is important is that -- and the words of the ad, he's going to protect us. >> the ad made no mention after loug japan and south korea to, perhaps, go ahead and start building nuclear weapons. the ad makes no mention of. that molly, while i have you, i want to talk about something katrina said. this idea that he can take those underwater, ufr favnfavorables turn them around should he get the nomination. how does a candidate go about
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doing that? >> well, look, i actually think katrina has a point. unfavorability is not votes against. those people are saying they don't like donald trump. but people vote for people they don't like all the time. and particularly when you have a candidate on the other side the aisle, hillary clinton, whose negatives are also historically high, most voters will choose between two candidates they doenltd like. it is also true that general election matchup numbers that you're looking at now when the conventions haven't even happened are highly misleading. we don't know how that's going to play out. as she said, donald trump's unfavorables have gone down within the republican primary as he's been campaigning. that is a remarkable feat. that's a hard thing to do. i think this is an uphill battle. it's something he has shown he can do with republican voters. >> molly ball, chip saltsman, appreciate the insight. thank you. for today's microsoft polls question, here it s this is what we're asking. are this week's controversies, are they taking a toll on
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trump's campaign? the poll is live right now. can you cast that vote online. up next, hillary clinton feeling the heat. the former first lady fired up and fighting back against bernie sanders in his protest on the campaign trail. clinton and sanders both in new york state today while sanders doubling down in wisconsin tonight. the latest in an increasingly feisty democratic battle. that's next. we were born 100 years ago into a new american century. born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. and what an amazing time it's been, cade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder. so, we say thank you america for a century of trust, for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together. ♪ but cigna is there for you. health isn't easy. literally. just download our free coach by cigna app.
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wisconsin democratic primary just four day as way. bernie sanders and hillary clinton have their eyes focused on the big apple. and the big apple's 247 delegates as well. any moment now, bernie sanders will be addressing women's roundtable in harlem. this following a massive sanders
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rally in the bronx last night. about 18,500 people were at that rally. sanders campaign is poised to win wisconsin, says it's raised some $44 million since march, exceeding the february numbers. for her part, hillary clinton is in syracuse today where she's expected to hold a campaign event next hour. and it's looking like sanders' momentum might have hillary clinton a bit on the ropes. a rare moment on the campaign trail. clinton appeared to lose her cool a bit with a greenpeace activist who challenged her over fossil fuel donations. here it is. >> will you use fossil fuel money in your campaign? >> i got people from people that work for fossil fuel. i'm so sick of the sanders campaign lying about this. primary in wisconsin to go down
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to the wire. neither appears to be giving up the fight. there for clinton, a loss in wisconsin makes matters more difficult on her home turf in new york. nbc's cyst ehristopheyst kristen the campaign trail. how worried is the clinton campaign about her hold on new york, especially after what many suspect will be a loss in wisconsin? >> well, i think there is some concern, craig. there is no doubt about that. look, the clinton campaign is bracing for a potential loss in wisconsin. and second clinton added events in wisconsin over the weekend to make sure that she pulls even or doesn't lose too badly to senator sanders. if he wins wisconsin, he likely won't cut into her delegate lead a whole lot. i'll have a lot of momentum head into new york. we saw hillary clinton's 20 point lead drop to a 12 point lead here. now that's still significant. but not quite comfortable enough if you are the clinton campaign.
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this is the state where she, of course, served as senators for two terms. so she wants to win here. she has to win here in term of the optics. and then, craig, you talked about those delegates more than 200 at stake. if she wins here, it would really start to put this race away. if she loses, it would be a game changer. there is no doubt about that. so when you think about strategy, we've seen secretary clinton really taking aim at donald trump. but yesterday she shifted back again setting her sights on senator sanders yet again argue thagt po arguing that his policies are not possible. they held a conference call with reporter and argued that secretary clinton is the better candidate to take on the nra. secretary clinton is going to announce a $10 billion manufacturing initiative here in syracuse, an issue that resonates in upstate new york. so we're seeing her really take aim and get serious about her primary battle instead of focusing on the general
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election. an indication, craig, she's a bit concerned here. >> kristen welker in syracuse, new york. thank you. up next, john kasich campaigning in pennsylvania about to speak any moment there in camphill. actually sh he's already taken the stage there. that's actually tape. my bad. >> john kasich earlier today in pennsylvania. >> the nominee of the party is the one that defines the party. and by the way, it's interesting, i'm the only one who consistently beats hillary clinton because i can get the crossover votes. but heading into another primary, can john kasich make the case as the levelheaded candidate at the polls? we'll check in next with the kasich campaign. and so my new packing robot will make jet warehouses even more efficient and save shoppers money.
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john kasich's second event of the day. he's currently polling second to donald trump. kasich spoke earlier in hershey, pennsylvania. >> the problem with senator cruz is he has no record. his rod ecord is shutting down government and making everybody he works for upset. maybe he ought to talk about what he is going forward because what he was in the past hasn't worked. >> kelly o'donnell is on the trail with the ohio governor, joins me from hershey, pennsylvania. kelly, so kasich has his target on cruz. but apparently so does this pro kasich path. tell us about that. >> craig, it's important for anybody allied with john case toik try to ke -- kasich to see what is going on with ted cruz, especially fli wisconsin. so they want to cut back on his ability to get votes so that kasich can get delegates and to try to slow down trump as well.
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so i'm noticing that john kasich is being somewhat sharper in his attack or criticism of ted cruz. we heard it just there. but there is also something new happening with an outside group that is supporting john kasich called new day for america pac. they are running ads in wisconsin, spending about a half million dollars. they grabbed on to something trump has been saying about ted cruz, using kind of unflattering nickname for cruz. that's part of an ad and then here's how the governor of ohio reacted to it. he doesn't like what he has seen. >> many just call him lying ted. lied about ben carson to steal a win in iowa. lies about being the best for the gop when polls show he can't even beat hillary clinton. his tv ad about john kasich, lie. stations had to pull it off the air. if ted cruz's mouth is moving, he's lying. >> i don't run that
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organization. i've expressed my displeasure. and they're going to, we can't communicate with them directly, but i don't like that word. i told them. that i said it last night on television. and i would hope that they will not use that word and take the down. >> and the word is referring to is lying. and while he is certainly critical of cruz and trump, he has all through this campaign been trying to be more about his own aagenda yashjengenda and id to stay above the fray in some way. so while that ad might be pretty typical negative campaigning fare in a season as rough and tumble as this, it fits the john kasich brand in this campaign season. he does not control, it's an outside super pac sh but by saying what we heard him say, he may be able to influence him. the other thing is the ad could be running now, voting in wisconsin on tuesday. so perhaps it will have an effect and he gets the benefit of criticizing it as well. and, craig, if you could have only been us with here, we're in hershey, pennsylvania, the chocolate is readily available
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and we're in an antique automobile museum. and so that's why -- i'm not at the bus station. these are antique automobile that's we had a chance to enjoy here. this was the backdrop for the earlier kasich vent. >> life on the trail. while i have you here, a the love folks are saying, especially folks close to ted cruz that john kasich is playing the role of spoiler here. that fit weren't for john kasich, if this were a two man race, that ted cruz would be handedly, at least running neck and neck with donald trump. what say the kasich folks to that notion? >> in a way, they would agree that keeping it a three person race does make it harder for either trump or cruz to get enough delegates. and it is governor kasich's intention to keep fighting, picking up delegates, congressional district by congressional district. this is pennsylvania. he is polling much better here than he is in wisconsin, for example, neighboring states. he was born in pennsylvania.
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he's trying to he mass some delegates. we know he is far behind at this point. but to keep it in kind of the possibility range for the convention in cleveland. he wants to see a convention where a decision will be made there. so the cruz people have an argument to make. if he wore out all of the anti-trump votes go to him? perhaps. kasich is saying not so fast, senator cruz. he thinks he's still in it. >> kelly o'donnell in front of antique bus there's in pennsylvania, thank you. we also need to share developing news right now out of washington. president obama using the most recent attacks in belgium to press the importance of world leaders working to stop nuclear proliferation. take a listen. >> we know that al qaeda long sought nuclear materials. individuals involved in the attacks in paris and brussels videotaped a senior manager who works at a belgian nuclear facility. isil has used chemical weapons
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in syria and iraq. there is no doubt that if these mad men ever got their hands on a nuclear bomb or nuclear material, they most certainly would use it to kill as many innocent people as possible. >> with more than 50 world leaders in attendance, u.s. officials are focused on working with other countries in gathering and sharing intelligence. russia refused to attend that summit. the country, along with the u.s., holds more than 90% of the world's nuclear weapons. programming note to pass along you to right now as well. a special tonight, a special you do not want to miss. later tonight, focus on the continuing fight against terrorism and how isis has become so successful at recruitment. >> now jihadist groups are releasing ever more sophisticated videos month after month. their main goal, recruitment, pulling young people to their cause. in the 1990s, this man was one
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of those people. a young muslim growing up in toronto. >> for me, for example, i'm a young kid. i'm 14, 15 years old. i'm not doing so well in school. i keep telling myself that, you know, i can't be a good muslim living in this infidel society. so i'm already setting myself up for failure in that sense. i can't get a normal job because i might have a jew or a woman or some other infidel as my boss. i can't lower myself and be subject to that. >> attracted to the cause of jihad, he watched the earliest videos like this and saw how they progressed. >> for somebody growing up in the west, the appeal to the concept of jihad, it really comes down to the deficit of heroes that exist in the muslim world. and these militants, they're seen as heroes. heroes that will save the muslims from oppression.
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>> reporter: for these videos sh the main recruiting technique is emotion. >> you're sitting there and watching a video of my people suffering, being humiliated and subjugated. i feel i need to do something about this. >> reporter: it's a carefully calibrated appeal, targeting centuries of oppression. real and perceived. >> this is classic prop gand yachlt adorable children being brutally hurt and murdered. living the atrocities of the horrible life that they have. >> reporter: prime air lit videos are about the suffering of the sunni muslim community. particularly in syria and iraq. and they play on the heart strings of young muslim men and women in order to attract them to come and protect the community. >> you can be sure to catch that tonight. fighting terror on line, the internet as the new
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yrely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywher united states postal service priority: you the department of labor announcing that job creation is up adding 215,000 jobs in march. job creation has been on the rise in this country since january of last year, steadily adding at least 200,000 jobs every month. however, unemployment also ticked up 5% for march compared to february's 4.9%. the market responding so far. you can see the dow is up. we can tell that you nasdaq,
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nasdaq is up as well. meanwhile, in wisconsin today, it is the last day the voters can cast their ballot early ahead of tuesday's primary. we've just learned the electronic voting system is back online. that system was down for more than two hours affecting several parts of the state government and create something very long lines as well. msnbc's tony decopola is on the east side of madison. what happened to that system? >> craig, that's right. two story lines covering today. the first is that significant hiccup in the state infrastructure server went down. blocking clerks from accessing a system they need to check voter registration and issue early ballots. the line snarled around the corner inside the buildings. we also talked to a clerk in green bay who had very long lines there. the sprob now fix add cording to the local affiliate. they report the problem is fixes. servers are back up and things should be moving more smoothly.
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we hope people were able to per veer throu -- persevere. the secretary story is the manufacturing report. jobs are up overall in this country. if you look closely, the manufacturing sector in the month of march alone lost 30,000 jobs. right here in maiden sow at the oscar mayer plant, some of the jobs are about to disappear. 2600 jobs across seven factories in north america for oscar mayer. this one is going to lose 500 jobs. i want to introduce you to felicia who has been working at this plant for 18 years. is that right? >> yes. >> what are you going to do now? >> i have to look for another job. >> what do you think you're trained to do? what do you think you'll do next? >> factory work. >> so what do you think about the forces that shut this plant and you think about this election on tuesday, where are you going to vote? >> hillary clinton. >> how come? >> she might change the world. we don't know yet. >> what about donald trump? we sometime hear that there are crossover votes, democratic leaning voters who think, you know what? donald trump might be able to make the difference in matters
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for manufacturing. >> in my case, i don't think so. but you never know. >> how come? >> donald trump has a lot of mouth. i'm sorry. >> all right. very good. thank you very much. certainly wish you luck in this transition. craig, very interesting. a lot of the people we talked to here are bernie sanders support rz althou ers although the union is supporting hillary clinton. >> always interesting when you're on. madison, wisconsin. thank you, sir. up next, what a potential loss for the clinton campaign in wisconsin could mean going forward in new york. we'll ask a man who has been down that road before. former vermont governor and presidential candidate howard dean on the other side of this break. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit.
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sanders leading hillary clinton there. and in new york, clinton's lead is down to 12 points. sand erers appears to be gainin ground. massive crowds at that event in the bronx last night. 18,500 people were there. after holding a roundtable in harlem today, bernie sanders heading back to the badger state over the weekend. hillary clinton is in syracuse right now. said her most valuable surrogate back to the badger state to deliver a message on the economy. >> you have to decide what kind of populism you want. do you want the populism of responsibility and change? or the populism of blame? >> howard dean is a surrogate for presidential candidate hillary clinton. also, of course, a former democratic governor of vermont. ran for president in 2004. currently an msnbc contributor. governor, always good to see you, sir. thanks for being with me. >> thanks for having me on. >> you know the importance of wisconsin more than most. you ended your candidacy after
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losing the badger state there. how big of a setback would it be for hillary clinton should she lose tuesday heading into new york? >> it's not that big a setback. i mean hopefully we're going to win. if we don't, you have to win by a huge margin to make any difference in the delegate balance. senator clinton's about 230 votes up. so even if it's -- because it's proportional in our side, it's hard to cut into that without really big margins. i think they're right to start stressing new york though. new york is really a much bigger state. bernie almost has to win new york if the candidacy is going to continue. >> if she does lose in wisconsin on tuesday, it will be the fourth straight loss for the clinton campaign. what's happened to momentum? >> momentum always switches back and forth. i can remember at the end when jimmy carter was running in '76, frank church and jerry brown entered very, very late and
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started win something states. part of it is the press. the press always roots for the person who is not in the lead and that has an effect and certainly helped me and then when i got into the lead, it didn't help me at all. part of it is american voters like the sports aspect of elections and they also like to root for the underdog. and they take a second look and a third look and a fourth look. >> is your candidate in danger of losing new york? >> no. >> not at all? >> i don't think so. >> protracted battle for the democratic party s that good for the party or bad for the party? does it make much of a difference? >> i don't think it makes a difference as long as both candidates understand that they have to support the other one when we get done. and no matter what, either as bernie himself once said, either candidate running for us is much better than the alternative. on the other side you have donald trump who is, you know, donald trump. and you got ted cruz who is the part of the right person running for president this year. and that's going to be the choice. and either of those people are
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going to harm all the folks that bernie and hillary are talking about helping. so as long as we get together after california, i think this primary is just fine. >> governor, wai want to play ts exchange. this is the exchange on the rope line yesterday. hillary clinton and that greenpeace activist, a sanders supporters. here it is. >> will you stick to your word about putting fossil fuel money in campaign. >> i have given money to work for fos you will fuel. i'm so sick of the sanders campaign lying about. this i'm sick of it. >> i want to clarify. they says she has no ties to the sanders campaign. how precisely -- how precisely is the sanders campaign lying about hillary clinton? >> well, it's not that they're lying. it's just that, like all campaigns, you know, bernie is a politician after all. and like all campaigns and all candidates, you slant the facts
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towards your own views. the truth is that hillary took some money from some people who lobbied for fossil fuels. but that's not all they do. they don't work fordo, and they don't work for fossil fuel companies. they probably are washington people who collect money for candidates in the democratic party. a lot of that money is going to the democratic party. bernie is not taking anything from the democratic party, as far as i can tell. there is a lot innuendo and part truths. i wouldn't call bernie sanders a liar, but he's a politician just like everybody else. >> howard dean, a one-time politician as well. thanks for being with us on this friday afternoon. up next, do you know what an unbound delegate is? don't feel bad, you're not alone. >> do you know what an unbound delegate is? >> no. >> no idea. >> none? >> none at all. >> not even a little? >> no. >> when we come back, we'll tell you what an unbound delegate is,
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and the type of impact it could very well have on this campaign. an update on the pulse question we've been asking after the controversies, are they taking a toll on the trump campaign? 76% of you say no. you can continue to be a part of the conversation. it's pulse.nsnbc.com to cast your vote. by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. her long day as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks.
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the fight for the presidential nomination is confusing, to say the least. democrats have delegates and superdelegates, republicans have delegates and something more confusing than delegates, unbound delegatedelegates. what exactly is an unbound delegate? when we have questions, we call on jacob sorksboroff with the republican party and everything
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to know about unbound delegates. what are unbound delegates? >> on the republican side we have unbound delegates, and when you run around in wisconsin, in small cities like this, there are about 70,000, 80,000 people that live here, they're proud of the fact they get to vote in the primary, but when you look at unbound delegates, their votes count so much more than anybody else, at least they could. take a look at this. mission. i'm becoming a delegate hunter. hitting the road to track down and speak with some of these extremely powerful americans whose votes could mean a lot more than everyone else. mission. i'm an unbowed delegate tracker. i'm going to speak to people whose vote matters a lot more than yours, whether you like it or not. mission. i'm becoming a delegate hunter.
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tracking down the people whose vote could matter a lot more than yours does. >> craig, obviously we had a little bit of a technical difficulty there, but i want to explain to you, again, what a delegate hunter is. basically in four states and three u.s. territories, wyoming, colorado, pennsylvania and north dakota, these delegates are not bound to the vote of the popular vote. they get to do whatever they want. so there's about 143, 150 that have this outsize power. so what i am doing, as you heard over and over and over again, is becoming a delegate hunter. i'm hitting the road, i'm getting in my car. we're going to north dakota this weekend to be at the state level convention, to see this happen up close. we want to know who these people are, which way they're going to vote because their votes are going to matter a heck of a lot more if this thing is close, specially during the first ballot of the republican convention. if donald trump goes in there without the 1237 votes that are required to win the party's nomination, he's going to look to scoop up these less than 200
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unbound delegates to go over the line and avoid what could be a very messy, unbrokered convention where all delegates become unbound on the second ballot. >> jacob soboroff if ripon, wisconsin. thank you very much. that does it for us this hour. my colleague erica hill will be back with you. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. ♪ when it's go, the new choice privileges gets you there faster. and now, stay two times and you can earn a free night. book now at choicehotels.com
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