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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 3, 2016 8:00am-9:02am PDT

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xarelto® is the number one prescribed blood thinner in its class. well that calls for a round of kevin nealons. make mine an arnold palmer. same here. with xarelto® there is no regular blood monitoring and no known dietary restrictions. treatment with xarelto® was the right move for us. ask your doctor about xarelto®. welcome back, everyone. i'm joy reid. at msnbc world headquarters in new york. now, it's been a rough week for donald trump, to say the least. first, he got grilled by conservative wisconsin radio host charlie sykes.
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then, the next day, wisconsin governor scott walker joined other elected republicans in endorsing ted cruz. then, trump stepped in it with a major abortion gaffe. telling our own chris matthews that women who seek illegal abortions should be subject to, quote, some sort of punishment. remarks he later walked or shall we say ran back. and then there's the real clear politics polling average which shows trump deeply underwater with just 30% favorable ratings versus 63% unfavorable. john dean, the former white house council to richard nixon and an expert in authoritarianism in politics predicted the rise of trump in july when most people were not taking his candidacy seriously. dean wrote for the league blog back then, political pundits everywhere are scratching their heads, asking what is going on with trump, how can a clown like trump be at in front of serious gop candidates. nine months later, the head
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scratching continues, particularly for the gop. john dean and i spoke on friday. take a listen. >> there is really no republican establishment today. there are some old hands who are very unhappy with what's going on. i have talked to a couple of them. i won't name them. but they don't like what they see. and they're particularly worried about what's going to happen down trickt with trump at the top. they're not terribly organized. some of -- there is funding today for that sort of thing, but it doesn't seem to be particularly effective. and so there has not really been much of a concerted effort to block him, and to roll out all the things they might have early on, and it may be too late at this point. >> now, despite how ineffective it's been so far, there is a stop trump movement that's growing louder. it even has a name. #nevertrump is a movement vowing not to support the gop front-runner. then a looser group of
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conservatives and anti-trump super pacs and pacs who all share the same goal, making sure trump does not become the republican nominee. enter wisconsin, where 42 delegates are at stake. and where a recent poll shows senator ted cruz with a ten-point lead. now, it doesn't have nearly as many delegates as, say, new york, wisconsin is seen as a crucial test for whether republicans actually can slow trump's momentum toward the magic number of 1,237 delegates to win the nomination. in other words, the badger state could be the stop trump movement's last stand. let's bring in radio host charlie sykes who is joining us from milwaukee, and in washington, d.c., former rnc chairman michael steele. and charlie sykes, i'm going to go to you first because you kind of starting the ball rolling on what has been a much tougher round of interviews, ironically enough, for donald trump. i want to afg you about the talk radio aspect of that. one of the things thht is really different about wisconsin is we
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have seen the talk radio movement prop up trump, but in wisconsin, it seems like conservative radio is dead set against him. do i have that right? >> you have that right. that's one of the dynamics here. for whatever reason, and we can speculate about why some of the talk show hosts have decided to abandon conservative values and drink the trump cool-aid, but we take conservative ideas seriously. the debates tend to be substantive. we recognize actual conservatives who get things done and reformists. when donald trump comes in, i think what's happened is he's come up against a political culture that is savvy enough to recognize that he's not a real conservative. he's not a lib wrl. he's just a man who doesn't have any principles and he's a cynical opportunist. >> just from your own perspective, charlie, why do you think the national conservative media movement, which has been at the vanguard of promoting
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conservative ideas, why are they so universally on trump's side? >> well, they're not universally on trump's side. to be fair. but it is disconcerting because i have been part of the conservative movement for about 20 years, and i take the ideas seriously. small government, individual liberty, the constitution, you know, respect for civility. and to see this hijacked by somebody who has rejected so many fundamental conservative values and to see him given air cover by some of these national talkers has been disallusioning. it's been difficult. i think for a lot of conservatives, who had thought that a lot of these hosts believed the things they said they believed. now, here in wisconsin, you kind of hit this wall where in fact because we have been talking about conservative ideas, s substantive ideas for a long time here, and the talkers here have a very, very different take on donald trump. >> yeah, and i should give credit. you're right, it isn't universal because my pal and his
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supporters don't like it, but hugh hewitt has been against him as well. i want to go to you, michael steele. donald trump was on fox news this morning, and mike wallace, i always call him mike, chris wallace asked him about the ways he's pollerizing the electorate. >> if you had purposely set out to turn off voters, especially women voters over the last two weeks, i'm not sure you could have done a better job. >> all i can do is do what i do. i'm self-funding my campaign, i'm not one of these politicians controlled by the people that give them money, believe me, and they're totally controlled. i think i'm doing very well. was this my best week? i guess not. i could have done without the retweet, et cetera, et cetera. i'm doing okay. >> michael steele, if donald trump doesn't understand that he's potentially wrecking the party that he is claiming to want to lead, then what can the party do about someone like that, who doesn't seem to even understand the negative impact he's having?
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>> you're making an assumption, i think, that donald trump is somehow connecting himself to or aligning himself with, quote, the party. donald trump is not a party guy. he's very much, as mr. sykes says, has been outside of the conservative movement which has dominated the republican party since reagan. that's not his background, his organizational structure. what he's bringing in is a remake of the party. he is bringing a brand of populism inside the party that is counter to conservatism. when you look at areas of policy, trade, tax policy, economic policy, foreign policy, it is counter to everything that the party's been about. so from donald trump's perspective, yeah, i could have done without the tweets, i could have done without this or that, but overall, not a bad week. in other words, he is still driving a conversation, whether you like it or not. that is dominating what this party is about, how this party
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responds, even down to the meeting that took place with the rnc chairman this week, that was his creation in many respects. so you still have this factor that no one really seems to get their head around. i don't think donald trump is really that concerned about his standing among the various constituencies. he has a long-term plan and he's executing on the plan. it goes counter to everything this party is about. >> charlie sykes, to michael steele's point, if you look at the groups that are funding what there is of the stop trump movement, they are parts of what we think of as the conservative movement, the club for growth, the our principle s pac, the american future fund. these are names you hear if you read a lot of sort of on the right, they're conservatives. if donald trump stands for nothing that the conservative movement is for, but he is winning, does that indicate that maybe at the grassroots level, people who vote republican do
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not agree with the conservative principles that people like you and michael steele have been promoting? >> well, i do think that conservatives need to do a better job of articulating some of those values, no question about it. i think i will disagree with mr. steele in this respect, donald trump had a very, very bad week. part of that was as reporters realized they could drill down, what they're finding out is there's no there there on issue after issue. donald trump may say what appeals to voters, but he hasn't given 30 seconds worth of thought to much of the substance, whether it's the abortion question, whether it's nuclear war, any of the issues of our time. i think that what's most disturbing is these concerns of the voters are legitimate. he's coming in and he is trying to sell this brand. no, he's not a conservative. what he is is an authoritarian demagogue. this is what ought to alarm people, particularly people who actually believe that we need to have a dialogue about the future of the country, that we need to
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deal with these issues. here in wisconsin, we have a lot of people who are very, very concerned about jobs, who are concerned about the economy, who are concerned about crony capitalism, who are concerned about the betrayal of washington, but the reality is, and you're starting to see this now, donald trump doesn't have any substance. he doesn't have any answers. and that when you begin to ask those tough questions, you find out that in fact it is an inch deep, that you have a demagogue who basically is the strong man in the white horse, comes in and says trust me. i will fix all of your problems. but then when you begin looking closer, there's nothing there. >> we have new polling out, and i think that a lot of people agree with you. this a new cbs/yougog poll shows ted cruz leading with 43% in wisconsin to donald trump's 23%, to john kasich's 18%. you mention the world authoritarian and say donald trump is an authoritarian demagogue. i want to play you what john
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dean, the former counsel to richard nixon told me this week about authoritarianism, and he took it beyond donald trump. take a listen. >> one thing i can guarantee you, an authoritarian personal will emerge as the nominee of the republican party. because the base are authoritarians, they're authoritarian followers and controlling the party, they're going to select a social dominator, an authoritarian social dominator. >> and michael steele, he was talking there about ted cruz and saying he, too, is putting forward authoritarian principles that would, you know, relegate women to a certain status that is not first-tier status, that his views are every built as authoritarian as donald trump's. >> i find it ironic because i have never classified ted cruz as a paul ryan kind of republican, a wisconsin kind of republican, but he is the conservative who is standing. the folks in wisconsin who have probably given another choice
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between the two would probably look at a marco rubio or someone like that if they were in the race, would be dominating in wisconsin rights now. which goes to the core of the problem. the base is still fractured along many lines and those lines are beginning to fracture. i think that there is still that opportunity that you have these two dominant personalities in both ted cruz and donald trump. while they may be opposite in many respects, they do come together around some core ways in which they argue the point. and that's what animates the base right now, and why you see cruz is settling the way he is in a state like wisconsin. the test for him is beyond wisconsin when he gets to the northeast, and we'll see what kasich does if he's able to counter that argument. but i think there's some validity to the.that dean made. >> i wish wie had more time for that. charlie sykes, thank you very much. >> and up next, bernie sanders is making a final push in wisconsin while hillary clinton is eyeing the delegate-rich
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primary is less than freig48 ho away. bernie sanders is leading hillary clinton by a two-point margin according to a just released poll from cbs news and ugov. sanders is looking to press that advantage with two appearances in wisconsin. with the likelihood that the outcome in wisconsin wont change the math by closing the gap twine sanders and clinton, much of the democratic side has moved on to the next big contest right here in new york. a whopping 247 delegates will be on the line in this state's april 19th primary. hillary clinton is currently ahead by ten points in that same poll from cbs/yougov.
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today, she's looking to solidify that lead with visits to african-american churches in new york city. senator sanders was here earlier this week when 18,000 people were feeling the bern at a rally in the bronx. new york is home turf for both candidates. hillary clinton was this state's senator for eight years and she and former president bill clinton live in chappaqua, a new york suburb. and she also set up her national campaign headquarters in brooklyn last year. bernie sanders, meanwhile, was born and raised in brooklyn, hence the huge accent, though he hasn't actually lived in the state since 1968. this weekend, the battle for new york is heating up as both campaigns accuse each other of delaying an empire state debate. senator clinton had this to say today on "meet the press." >> are you going to debate in new york, and when are you going to debate? >> well, i'm confident we will. our campaigns are trying to reach an agreement about that. we have offered dates. and we have done it over the
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last several weeks. so we've been trying to figure out when we could do this. >> let's go to, from washington, senior clinton spokeswoman, karen finney. thank you very much for being here. good morning. happy sunday. >> good morning. great to be with you, joy. >> let's talk about this debate kerfuffle, you had the clinton campaign and sanders campaign going back and forth. at this point, is there going to be a debate, and if so, do you have a date that you would care to announce? >> you know, joy, i always would love to make some news for you, but i think, you know, what secretary clinton said this morning is where we are. we have offered debates. there is a back and forth. i know our campaign is in conversation with the sanders campaign through the dnc, and obviously, some of that depends on also finding a date that both campaigns approve as well as a media partner, so i know they're working those things out. >> and you know, while those things are getting worked out, one of the things that has been
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hard to miss is that the campaign between senator sanders and secretary clinton has taken a decidedly nasty tone. it's gotten ugly among surrogates, supporters, even the campaigns themselves. i want to read you back to back statements. first, your campaign, the clinton campaign about this debate in new york. they said the sanders campaign needs to stop with the games. over the course of the last wyche, we have offered three specific dates for debates in new york. all of which the sanders rejected. all offers for the night of april 14th and the morning of april 15th. >> bernie sanders responded this way, unfortunately, the dates and venues clinton has proposed don't make a lot of sense. they want to debate in new york in a night of the ncaa finals, with syracuse in the finals, is ludicrous. is this just a proxy for how negative the campaign overall has gotten or is there some validity to the idea that bernie sanders said you guys are
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offering dates to debate that no one would really watch? >> let's just take a step back. remember, we started this conversation, this public conversation about debates, when the sanders campaign decided about a week or so ago to do a public release, publicly, a letter demanding a debate when we already agreed we would be doing more debates. i understand why they're doing it. it's part of trying to create this sense of momentum. look, he has got a tough road ahead of him, as you were just pointing out. wisconsin, it's close. we're hoping for a win there. you know, but we have always said we expect it will be close. on to new york, but for senator sanders, he's got to win huge, 57% wins in all of the remaining contests in order to try to make up that difference. and i just don't think the math is there. i think they're trying to, with these kinds of stupts, create this sense of momentum. hillary clinton has 2.5 million
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more votes than senator sanders. i expect she's going to do very well in new york, as you pointed out, it's not just her home turf and where she's been as senator, but it's where people know her. and this is a state where upstate and down state, people know when hillary clinton says she's going to do anythisomethie gets it done. this morning, she was endorsed by nicole bell, the fiance of sean bell, terrible incident that occurred while hillary clinton was senator. and as nicole said, hillary clinton was standing with me back then and i'm standing with her now. that's a sentiment in new york. so sure, we can talk about, you know, debates, and i'm sure we're going to work something out. but i think what's important here, that we shouldn't take our focus off of, is what's really going on. that is, you know, again, the sanders campaign trying to create this sense of momentum when it's pretty clear the path is probably not there. it's getting pretty tight for them. >> obviously, on the math question, i think it's pretty clear that hillary clinton has a lead, larger than what barack
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obama had of her in 2008. that is well known, but the argument that the sanders campaign makes as to why, for instance, superdelegates should choose him, is hillary clinton has not done well at attracting independents and younger voters. is hillary clinton going to have a problem, let's say she's the nominee, attracting independents and younger voters? >> i sure don't think so. look, at this point, she's got about a million more votes than even donald trump does. so in terms of her ability to get votes, again, i think she's proven to be very strong on that. all across the country. northering south, east, and west, and what we have also seen, and we have not seen bernie sanders able to do this, she's been able to build a very strong diverse coalition of voters, you know how important that is, joy. you've got to be able to win big among african-american voters and latino voters and women as part of the coalition that you put together to win. so far, senator sanders has not been able to do that, and the
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only place, frankly, where he's gotten to 57%, is vermont and new hampshire. we have to face the facts about the demographics of this country and what it takes to win in this country. again, i think hillary has demonstrated a strong ability to do that and to put together the coalition of voters needed to win. >> all right, my friend karen finney, thank you very much. really appreciate it. >> great to see you. >> now, i want to bring in sanders campaign national surrogate nina turner. you heard karen finney say the issue is the coalition. hillary clinton may not be doing as well with independents and young voters, but she's doing incredibly well and much better than bernie sanders with people of color, which is a core of a democrat, base. what say you? >> a lot of that has to do with the national profile the secretary has enjoyed for many years. let us not forget senator bernie sanders is a senator from vermont, about 600,000 people. the demographics there are 95%
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white. senator sanders cannot control the demographics. what he has been able to do as he has run across the runt ra, people are getting a chance to knee him. i will say, the demographics in terms of young voters across ethnic groups are very much in support of senator sanders. he is working very hard to win that multicultural coalition that is necessary, but for the african-american community, in my opinion, that whole notion of brand loyalty is there. we saw it in the south. but as senator sanders begins to move to more northern states, more midwestern states, we see that he is getting a larger share of the african-american vote than he did in the south. so he's still building all across the country. >> we're just looking at the new cbs/yougov poll out of new york. clinton is leading in that poll. where as in wisconsin, it's tightening. there are been polls that have come out over the last week, one that shows hillary clinton up by almost ten. one that showed bernie sanders up by almost ten.
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this one is a lot closer, within the margin of error. after wisconsin, let's just say senator sanders pulls it out in wisconsin. doesn't he run into a problem in that the north atlantic states, states like new york, pennsylvania, et cetera, he's likely to lose, or if he would squeak out a win, it wouldn't be enough to close up the delegate math. >> the clinton campaign would love for that to be the reality. i was just in new york, in brooklyn before the senator got there. we had almost 2,000 people come to the grand opening of his office in brooklyn. he is brooklyn through and through. that's not -- the state of new york, that's not a state he shopped for after leaving the white house. it's the state where he was born and where he was raised. it was a multi-ethnic, multi-religious coalition of people who showed up at the block party. the biggest canvas in new york state's history. so we are battling very hard for new york. so it's not over. we're going all the way to the
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convention. so the clinton campaign and anybody else that wants senator sanders to get out of the race, they need to get comfortable with that. strap in, because we're going all the way. he is building that coalition. i got a chance to meet black men for bernie which is a grassroots activist group and they been traveling all over to show that senator bernie sanders does have appeal in the african-american community. he does have supporters. he understands what it takes to win, and his value proposition, his consistency and his honesty is what is winning him over across demographics in this great country. we're going to have more to come. >> very quickly, nina turner, what do you make of the comments this week by people like susan sarandon who essentially implied it would be better for donald trump to win than hillary clinton? has this race gotten so negative that there are supporters of bernie sanders who would rather see trump than hillary be president? >> well, i don't think it's -- i think susan sarandon was just speaking to some frustrations that people have. and i have heard those same
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frustrations. i don't think she was directing anyone to vote for mr. trump. she didn't say herself. and this is america. people have a right to have an opinion, and it just boggles my mind where if susan sarandon says one thing or sister dawson says another thing, people get upset. it is america. people have a right to say that, but there is a frustration that both parties, both republicans and democrats, have to deal with. we cannot ignore that there are people who want to disrupt the , they're tired of the status quo and they're venting this in this election cycle like none we have ever seen. we're at a crossroads, and people have to decide what america we want. and i think an america led by bernie sanders, one that lifts people, is the way to go. >> my friend nina turner, friends back to back. i really appreciate that. always a joy to talk to you. up next, my producers went to wisconsin to follow the money trail, and after the break, we'll see what they found. te toe rheumatoid arthritis like me, and you're talking to a rheumatologist
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all eyes are on wisconsin as its big primary approaches. we went out there this week to see just how money big money is transforming the state's political scene. >> yes we can! >> over the last several years, wisconsin has become ground zero for big money in politics. it's where the now ubiquitous david and charles koch scored one of their biggest victories with the election of scott walker. when walker ran in 2010, they were some of the supporters in both campaign and pac contributions. when walker was forced into a recall election in 2012 after he pushed through legislation taking collective bargaining rights away from public unions, the koch brothers filled his coffers once again. walker won that election and the one after that in 2014. according to dale schultz, a longtime republican state senator and former senate majority leader in wisconsin, the kochs and the conservative advocacy group they fund, americans for prosperity, have
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only seen that influence in their state grow. >> i think the biggest untold story is sort of the rise of the political industrial class, as it's called. we now have nine americans for prosperity offices in wisconsin that are full-time, i understand. >> while the koch brothers are the best known big spenders in the state, there's another organization having as big an impact if not an even bigger one, the bradley foundation. >> the bradley foundation out of milwaukee is an $830 million fund. governor walker's chair of his campaign committee is michael greby, the head of the bradley foundation. paul ryan refers to him as his political godfather. when reince priebus, when his name was floated out there to be the rnc chair, it was michael greby who wrote the let toor the rnc members saying this is the guy to put in charge of the republican national committee. >> in addition to helpen wisconsin's conservative stars ascend the national stage, the bradley foundation has
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championed conservative causes like public vouchers for private schools. one of the foundation's more controversial initiatives involved funding a slew of billboards ominously warning voters against committing felony voter fraud, which just happened to specifically target communities of color in milwaukee. although big money is the driving force in wisconsin politics today, that wasn't always the case. wisconsin was once known for its strong campaign finance regulations. a decade ago, the state established the government accountability board, a nonpartisan campaign finance and ethics oversight committee made up of retires judges. walker signed a bit late last year dissolved the agency. fred risser who has served in the legislature since 1957, said the issue was a personal one for walker. >> the problem was the board decided to investigate our governor, governor walker, and he didn't like it. so he and his pawns in the
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legislature in effect abolished the board. >> the state was also once known for its wealth of moderates and independents. however, according to dale shuls, there is no room for them. >> the conservative element of the republican party has sort of pushed aside independents, independent republicans, and is trying to create what i would call sort of a parliamentary democracy where there's no crossing the floor. the discipline, the party discipline, has grown to an extreme level. and i thiik that's a very different wisconsin than many of us older people remember growing up in. >> up next, we'll bring in our panel to discuss the deep partisan divide in the state of wisconsin. advice... ...about my toothpaste and mouthwash. but she's a dentist so...i kind of have to listen. she said "jen, go pro with crest pro-health advanced." advance to healthier gums... ...and stronger teeth from day one. using crest toothpaste and mouthwash makes my...
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nichols by playing a video of you when our producers caught up with you in madison, wisconsin, talking about the proximity, the physical proximity of the money we were talking about in the package before the break and the politicians in wisconsin. take a look. >> literally, we're standing, you know, a few feet apart. and you'll have koch brothers on one side and you'll have, you know, the wisconsin progressive tradition on the other. in many ways, you sum up the clash. >> and so john, you know, does that physical proximity kind of indicate sort of an idealogical and actual proximity between the two? >> well, there is a huge struggle going on in wisconsin, and no one should underestimate what's happened in this state in the last five or six years. six or seven years ago, wisconsin still had a functional campaign finance system. it wasn't perfect. it had a lot of money flowing in. but in the 2010 race, you had
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massive amounts of money flow in for scott walker and his allies from out of state. and the koch brothers are a part of that, but others. in 2012, in the recall, more and more money came in. and you have really seen the development of a new establishment in wisconsin. a right-wing establishment funded very, very much by out of state money that is at direct odds not just with the wisconsin progressive tradition as some people might understand it, you know, in the contemporary sense of being something that mostly democrats are aligned with, but also as dale schultz illustrated earlier, at odds with an old wisconsin republican tradition, which was a faith in clean government, in ease of voting, in a sense that democracy worked best when it was a clash of ideas that were relatively equally matched. what we have seen in recent years is a huge effort to kind of give one side an immense advantage. >> scot ross, we have worked on the issue about the bradley foundation which is sort of less
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well known than the koch brothers but in some cases spends more money. what has the money typically gone toward in wisconsin? >> well, it typically go towards propaganda campaigns to advance governor walker's agenda. the money is coming in here, and we're having, for instance, these attacks on voting rights that were referenced earlier, for one simple reason. republicans haven't won a state-wide election held in a presidential election year in 32 years. and so we are seeing this massive effort to try and prevent progressive voters from getting out to the polls. listen, we have a race coming up on april 5th, the state supreme court. it's a ten-year seat. governor walker's crony on the bench, rebecca bradley, is up for a ten-year term on the court. now, this is a candidate who has talked about, who has previously written that gays are dejenerates, that she has no sympathy for aids victims, that birth control is murder. and the wisconsin supreme court
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is already controlled by walker's cronies and his corporate allies, and now they're trying to get her on the bench for ten more years. that is what this voter suppression effort is about. it is about rigging the process for political gains by governor walker and his allies. and it's funded by the bradley foundation's endless and ceaseless propaganda campaign. >> michael steele, what happened to the republican party of the sort of jack kemp era where i can remember there was a time when the republican party was really pushing to get away from what seemed to be really far right doctrinaire ideals, at least publicly, and try to make the party more inclusive. if wisconsin is emblematic of what the new republican party is, extreme voter suppression, going after unions, going after working people in that way, what does that say about your party? >> well, all of that is in the eye of the beholder. clearly, if it was that bad and onerous, than the voters of
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wisconsin who feel last time i check, get to vote, would not have re-elected this governor three times. so you know, we'll see how it plays out. you talk about a state-wide race not having been won in a presidential year, but those aren't for governor, aren't for secretary of state or the constitutional offices. they're for judgeships and things like that, which hold a very different place in the mind of voters. so there is this bifurcation, there is the opportunity to sort of broaden the party on the one hand, but they're still dealing with this internal struggle which goes back to the days of jack kemp and even ronald reagan in '76 and the battle with the stabment for the emergence of some kind of conservative voice within the party. that's an ongoing struggle. it's now more pronounced. some would argue a little more dangerous because it could lead to a form of fratricide in the party, if you will, but this has been playing out for some time. wisconsin is no different. certainly is a big political piece of the pie.
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in terms of where the party is, but i think wisconsin, like other states, is beginning to reflect that tension and how it plays itself out is going to be manifested in the presidential election and in the down ballot office holders as we go forward. >> and of course, one of the differences is because in some of the state-wide elections, the turnout is lower. but i want to go back to john nichols on a question of who might end up benefitting from what michael steele has just described as fratricide in the party. the hill is reporting this week that scott walker has said that the republican nominee may not be anyone currently running. could scott walker have scott walker in mind? >> scott walker always has scott walker in mind. so that's a fair assessment. but i think there's something that runs a little deeper here. that is, as i have covered this campaign over the last few weeks here in wisconsin, i have been powerfully struck that when you go to events for ted cruz, who is the leader in the polls at
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this point, you see a lot of this new establishment there, and remember, that's a narrow part of the republican party. it's not the whole of the republican party. i have actually been at cruz events where i didn't think people were all that enthusiastic for cruz. they were enthusiastic about making sure trump doesn't win and the process is opened up. you found some people who say i think it should be paul ryan, others say maybe scott walker. in general, it's a sense that the people backing cruz are, i think, less excited about cruz than they are about stopping trump. the weird thing is, where i see excitement is often, oddly, at a lot of kasich events. a lot of people go to kasich events who seem quite genuine. >> scot ross, let's gawk about the party in general to stop trump sense that john talked about. there's an nbc news story that talks about the koch brothers focusing on down ballot races and with trump ahead, ignoring the presidential race. it you see that kind of big
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money maybe moving down ballot if trump becomes the inevitable nominee? >> yeah, in wisconsin, we have a u.s. senate race where tea party incumbent ron johnson is being challenged by former senator russ feingold. so yeah, there's certainly a concern, i'm guessing, amongst democrats. if trump is the nominee, and the >> i love it. scot ross bringing back the brady bunch and giving us
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starsky and hutch with the jacket. i love it. scot ross, thank you, michael steele will be back later in the bram. much more to come after the break. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good.
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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. >> back with me is robert genes, eric dyson and robert seals. i will start with michael steel. i have been giving him the business. wo won the week? >> ted cruz because he was not
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donald trump. >> you need to be wearing a red sweater when you drop lines like that. i love it. anyone who is not donald trump is going to win. good answer. do you think ultimately on a more serious note that ted cruz can take the nomination? >> it's going to be hard. that is under valuing a fight when donald trump gets closer and closer to clinton. ted cruz has a great organization and he is building the numbers so it's going to be a battle royal, but it will be hard. >> who won the week? >> i will go off grid here. i might give the primaries and say republican governor nathan deal vetoing house bill 757 which would allow people and business owners to sdroim nate against gay and lesbian people. he followed the will of the
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voters and walt disney said they threatened to pull out. he was able to say look, we need to take a deep breath and realize the world changed and he put in his own southern baptist roots as a way to say the classes i have taken, a good baptist school and i can't see my fate said protect religious liberty. >> he only did it because disney was not going to film there. it was corporatism. >> they took a page out of atlanta's history, too busy to hate in the 1960s. i do think it's relevant that he was tied to his own faith and the message that i think republicans ought to heed if they turn off a generation of voters. let's realize the world has change and we can be conservative and christian.
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>> dr. dyson, who won the week? >> hillary clinton for not being ted cruz or donald trump. she is a woman in america in a boy's game with its knock about politics with the vicious patriarchy and mi soj me in and she is still standing. the ridiculous trump comments about abortion and more than ridiculous. that degree and magnitude and maliciousness against women is taking common sense. the existential assertion of a female of prominence who can play with the boys and beat them at their game is a remarkable expression of where we have come. hrc is the notorious one this week. >> do you feel that she is subject because a lot of her supporters will say that she is subject to much more negativity than bernie sanders.
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>> absolutely. bernie sanders can be cranky in his own orbit and hillary does it and you are hoggaring and crying. there is no crying in baseball. john boehner cries and orange is peeling away and it's fine. if hillary clinton does so, she is subjected to a different gender standards. the differential here is extraordinary. they are so unremarked upon. hillary clinton to her credit kept stormingly through and say irregardless, i'm going to stand tall. >> like john mac laughlin and i, as the person in the anchor chair, the actual construct answer, right wing talk radio in wisconsin. ironically enough, i don't agree with them, but it took them to instruct the stop trump movement
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how it's done. even those in the media had to get donald trump knocked on his heels. tied donaldson. thank you. that does it for me today. coming up next, alex witt continues our coverage and said if trump loses wisconsin, he will lose the nomination. stay with msnbc, the place for politics. more "si per roll.
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so one roll of bounty can last longer than thosere bargain brands. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty. the ng-lasng quicker pickerpper. but cigna is there for you. health isn't easy. literally. just download our free coach by cigna app. for personalized programs from a team of health coaches to help you achieve your wellness goals. cigna. together, all the way. good day, everyone. i'm alex witt. just two days from the wisconsin primary and any number of ways that can change the campaign picture in a dramatic way. on the gop side, the badger state winner could change the race and victory can mean a clear path for donald trump, defeat, a long slot through the convention process and

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