tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC April 4, 2016 10:00am-12:01pm PDT
big victory. very big victory. >> the recent republican polls, however, mirror this one from anderson college showing ted cruz ahead primed for a win that could keep trump from 1237. of course, the magic number of delegates to prevent a chaotic contested convention in cleveland. meanwhile, bernie sanders appears to have a much more difficult task ahead of him. he leads in nearly all the recent major polls here but hillary clinton's delegate lead appears to make her nomination more a question of win than if. we continue to have reporters covering all the campaigns today. they are fanned out. we start with gabe gutierrez in the far northwestern corner of the state in superior, wisconsin, about six hours from where we sit in the minnesota border where donald trump will be holding his second of three wisconsin rallies today alone. gabe, first of all, what's the
turnout been like so far today and how has trump handled the very real possibility that he is going to lose here in wisconsin tomorrow? >> reporter: good afternoon. a really strong turnout, once again, for donald trump. we are just outside of the venue here that's just wrapping up and about to head inside but already, hundreds of people, perhaps more than a thousand people already waiting in line to get into this airport hangar. the big question will be here in wisconsin, can donald trump keep his momentum or will ted cruz be able to pull out a victory? he's well ahead in the polls. many people coming to the rally. however, they don't see it that way. they say they're here to support donald trump. they see him as an outsider. and donald trump himself with his campaign they're trying to say they view this as a new situation in which many people didn't expect him to do well but he came from behind and won in a landslide. however, this is an area that is heavily for barack obama in 2012. 65% of the vote there.
many of the voters here they say they feel disillusioned by the economic recovery here in this part of the we wi aisconsin and donald trump is coming to this part of the state. he's expected in an hour and a half or so. we're heading right inside into the venue to hear him speak. right now, the crowd is filing in. back to you, craig. >> gabe gutierrez for us in superior, wisconsin. gabe, thank you. we'll check in with you in a bit. hallie jackson following the cruz campaign right now. she's headed for madison to kenosha, wisconsin. 80 miles west of here. they don't agree on much. but the campaign trail right now, ted cruz and donald trump do seem to agree on one thing. getting john kasich out of this race. this is what cruz had to say about the possibility of a contested convention. take a listen. >> from the beginning of our electoral system in this country, the standard has been a
majority. if you want to be the republican nominee, you have to be able to earn a majority of the votes and if you can earn a majority, you're not going to be the nominee. if we get to a contested convention, i believe we'll be at a very strong position to earn a majority from the delegates that were elected by the people. and there are only two candidates whose names will appear on the ballot. donald trump and myself. under the rules, you have to have won eight states. there are only two candidates who have met that threshold. >> hallie, is that a coordinated campaign between cruz and trump to keep kasich from reaching the floor in ohio? >> reporter: yeah, i'm not sure it's a coordinated campaign that the campaigns are teaming up but they feel it's in their interest to keep john kasich off the convention ballot and be able to set up a head to head match-up. they feel that is how they could end up being successful. john kasich, of course, has a little something to say about
this. here's his campaign already today fund raising off of this idea that both donald trump and ted cruz want to keep a lid on john kasich. you talk about ted cruz, thooe comments there, very explicitly saying he believes it will be two people on the ballot. you talk about what he did over the weekend in north dakota. we heard cruz come out and say i was able to bring a number of delegates, 18 delegates that support cruz to the convention in cleveland. but remember, craig, here's a caveat. those delegates, as we head through a tunnel here, so forgive us if the light changes but those dell gaegates can cha their mind between now and july. you see a concerted eft fort in places like north dakota and colorado and wyoming and pennsylvania. really drill down to make sure they are locking in delegates to be able to short them in july. you see carly fiorina trying to make sure she was doing the face
to face interaction. and cruz himself as well. you'll continue to see that as this race moves forward and hit the key dates now between now and the convention. >> hallie jackson, somewhere between madison and kenosha following the cruz campaign. hallie, thank you so much. we'll come back to you later. meanwhi meanwhile, kelly o'donnell following the aforementioned kasich campaign today. kelly o'donnell, why is john kasich here in the badger state? >> reporter: he believes he can pick up delegates in madison but we just had a chance to talk to governor kasich. we asked him about all of these issues. he called senator ted cruz a smear artist for cruz's attempts to try to go after john kasich urging him to get out of the race and trump, saying he must
be nervous and kind of raised the issue of why are they worried about me if i'm doing so poorly? he does talk about issues and try to have a sunnier disposition but in the q and a with reporters is more tactical going after his rivals and saying he intends to stay in. no plans to get out. he goes to the convention and believes he can have more delegates and perhaps sen joyis enjoying a bit of the rough and tumble where those ahead of him essentially are talking about him and able to push back against donald trump and push back against ted cruz. and in part, craig, he's talking about the fact that he understands and knows and grew up with the kinds of voters who like donald trump and therefore, he believes he could have an appeal to them. that's the sort of strategy we're seeing unfold. some of it happening in realtime. as you point out, he's not in wisconsin. he did spend the weekend there and i certainly attended some events with him there but he's
leaping ahead to the april 19 states and then this week, because he's a sitting governor, has some state business to do. the state of the state address, which is required. he will be delivering that in marietta, ohio, and then back to town hall meetings in manhattan, in harlem, upstate and try to make new york and pennsylvania areas where he can see a bit more of a response because northeast republicans may be more inclined to look at john kasich. craig? >> governor kasich respond to these calls for him to get out of the race earlier at a town hall, kelly. this is what he said. >> last night, by the way, i saw something very interesting. donald trump said i need to get out of the race because i'm getting his voters. i've got news for him. i'm going to get a heck a lot of his voters. that's what's going to happen. >> that's pretty edgy.
that's governor kasich sticking it to him. here's the thing. trump's been talking about it. ted cruz, as you know, has launched an ad sort of going after kasich here. have they responded? >> reporter: that's what john kasich was saying in giving a new moniker calling him senator ted the smear artist. he said a few minutes ago. i'm sure you'll see that play because it's a notable zinger towards ted cruz which we don't often see. he also said that donald trump hasn't done really anything and the accomplishment in government ted cruz has is shutting down the government. there's a change in tone. he would dispute that but john kasich is more about his vision when he's talking to voters. >> kelly o'donnell in long
island there with the kasich campaign. always good to see you. thank you, my friend. here's the question we are asking you today as part of today's microsoft pulse question. should john kasich drop out of the 2016 race? let pulse.msnbc.com. nbc's kristen welker is live in new york city following hillary clinton's campaign in new york today. kristen, 18 hours before the wisconsin primary. the latest poll shows bernie sanders with a slight edge. a neck and neck race here. she's not campaigning in the badger state, but instead, stumping in and around new york city today. if she loses in wisconsin, how big of a firewall is new york? but let me start with the same question i pose to kelly o'donnell. why is she not here in wisconsin today? >> reporter: i think it underscores how important new york is to the clinton campaign.
secretary clinton added extra events over the weekend and today, former president bill clinton, her top surrogate, is stumping there. but we can't emphasize this enough. it's about new york. they're bracing for a potential loss in wisconsin. the margins there are going to be really important. if senator sanders wins by a few points, he's going to get a few delegates and get some momentum. if he has a big win there, that could be significant . and that's why she's trying to defend her adopted home turf here. she served as two terms senator. we see this race gets increasingly competitive. senator sanders saying she was getting nervous and took a veiled swipe and saying his policies are impractical but had plenty to say about their republican rivals as well. take a listen. >> it's important to point out
that there are people who don't believe that the minimum wage should be raised. in fact, donald trump has said that wages are too high. [ crowd boos ] >> reporter: she was here to celebrate the $15 wage hike. expected to focus a lot on this critical state. later tonight, she'll be campaigning in albany and of course, we'll be there with her. kpra craig? >> kristen welker, thank you. >> reporter: kasie hunt is following the sanders campaign from janesville to milwaukee. she's on the phone for us. kasie, let's start with the "new york times" article. for viewers and listeners, here's just a snippet. mr. sanders is kaechlicampaigni
effectively. the weaknesses and the positioning to win the contest like the primary on tuesday but allies and advisors of mr. sanders say they missed opportunities to run an aggressive political operation in 2015 that would have presented more of a challenge to mrs. clinton. the writer spent some time talking to senators' wives but reads like a post-mortem on this eve in wisconsin. what's the campaign saying about the article, if anything? >> reporter: hi, craig. this comes at an odd time in many ways. it's on the eve of this primary that they're expected to potentially win or at least do better than many might have expected. and then, of course, hopefully on to, in their view, challenge secretary clinton in new york in a couple of weeks but almost
reads as though you have campaign advisors talking about one mistake, may or may not have an expected loss. that said, many of the threads through this article talk about the potential mistakes of the sanders campaign might have made are also ones that they have essentially been saying for months now. i actually have asked bernie sanders at several points along the way, were there instances where you have regrets? do you feel like you did everything you could to win this primary? i asked him that in iowa and always said, no, i've run this campaign the way i wanted to run this campaign and that's what you have to remember and you can read it through the "new york times" story as well. he felt like it would be off-brand to make personal attacks against secretary clinton and that's why he hasn't
done it and as he's noting, he's kept up the rhetoric on where he's willing to go with trade, about the transcripts as well. and today, saying he thinks secretary clinton is nervous going into wisconsin. >> nbc's kasie hunt in janesville, wisconsin, on her way to join us in the flesh here in milwaukee. kasie, safe travels the you. why wisconsin could see record turnout in tomorrow's primary and what that could mean for both parties. we're live at the bernie sanders field office where the vermont senator hoping to pull off not just a victory, but a big victory against hillary clinton tomorrow night and we'll talk about that. plus politics, and baseball. neither of them supposed to be contact sports but that's not always how the game plays out. we're just about an hour away from opening day here in a snowy milwaukee where a sold-out crowd of brewers fans anxiously awaiting to see the first pitch. while awaiting the first pitch, we'll get their thoughts on
tomorrow's primary here. >> rooting for the brewers today. who do you like tomorrow? >> bernie sanders. >> who do you like in 2016? >> to be quite honest, nobody. to be honest. about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem kwledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed. well, let's be cle here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. her long day as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks. for me... it's aleve.
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x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. high voter turnout tomorrow could play a pivotal role for the democratic and republican races. accountability board predicting 1.75 million wisconsinites predicting that 1.75 million will vote tomorrow. that's a bump in about 6% from 2008. officials expected roughly 40% of eligible voters to show up at the polls tomorrow that would be on par of what we would be
seeing around the country so far this season. chris jansing visiting a candidate field office to get a sense of a last-second push for votes and turnouts. she did that earlier at clinton headquarters and now find that with bernie sanders supporters not far from where i am on mlk boulevard in wisconsin. good to see you, chris. what's the mood like among volunteers there? >> reporter: good to see you, craig. well, optimistic. bernie sanders is up in the polls but it's tight. as you probably know, the delegate deficit he faces is daunting, which is why i was here a couple of hours ago, this was much more packed. they sent the folks out to canvas and go door to door. they want to build a closer race here with hillary clinton. larger margin of victory where he's really strong in the university areas. so this is where you pick up all of your stuff when you want to go out door to door as we hit
the camera. so these tell you what the message is. break the big banks that are too big to fail. the sort of highlights. these are the kind of people volunteering. no person should go to jail for marijuana. bring liberalism back. money should not control politics. that's something he hit on hard with great success. here's one of the volunteers who is here. gary, good to see you. >> hi. >> where are you from? >> houston. >> what brought you here? >> bernie sanders is just the kind of candidate that i think, he is going to make the biggest difference in this country. his platforms of raising the minimum wage. equality for all. gay, straight, you know, everybody should be treated equally. he has a very strong stance on racial justice. ending mass incarceration. decriminalizing marijuana is one of his platforms. so many platforms that bernie sanders is, you know, fighting
for the average person. not for the corporations. and there's volunteers all over the country coming to work for the campaign. >> reporter: you share with me you lost your job. what made you want to dig into your savings and come here? i mean, is this something that you just felt compelled to do and is it the first time? >> this is definitely the first time i've done this for a campaign. i've been working, volunteering for the campaign since november. down in houston, our primary was march 1st and then me and some friends hopped in a car and went to new orleans to the state headquarters and helped there for a week. i believe their primary was on the 5th. we helped out there and then went back to houston. so my friends spread out in portland, oregon. they've been to salt lake city, utah. >> reporter: you're all volunteers? >> volunteers. >> reporter: thank you so much. a couple of differences. much more free form.
someone brought what looks like a delicious crock pot of red lentil soup. one thing, if you come here and don't volunteer, you can get your picture taken with a life size candidate. >> chris jansing, just a stone's throw from here in downtown, milwaukee. >> no charge. >> no charge, thank you, chris. here for the "milwaukee journal sentinel." let me start with you. the recent piece you said this was perhaps the wildest primary that we've ever seen in wisconsin. you've been covering primaries here, not to age you, but roughly 30 years. what is it about this one that makes it crazier than primaries past? >> two things. really unusual to have hot contests in both parties in wisconsin, we usually come late
in the calendar and really unusual to have the republican contest generating the most attention. when state talks about massive turnout, we haven't seen turnouts in the republican side in decades. it's a wild card. you don't know what it looks like when a million people vote in it. >> let's talk about the turnout. expected to exceed the previous high of, i believe, 38% back in 1988. when michael decaucus won here. what does that mean for both sides? with high turnout, it has benefitted the trump campaign. >> and i think that's one of the ways we should look at what's happening here in wisconsin. like craig, i've been following wisconsin primaries back to the 1970s. and the truth of the matter is that wisconsin voters have a rare opportunity, very different than the rest of the country. they've got both ballots in
front of them. they get to pick. they can vote on the republican side or the dhakt siemocratic s. they don't have to register or say i'm a democrat or a republican. it's an open process. they get to pick. as a result, a lot can come in and feed to the two primaries. and we don't know for sure which primary is going to draw the biggest turnout. we don't know how that's going to impact. especially in places around the state. i think there's an awful lot of people who presume that this thing is all set. that bernie sanders got a little bit of a lead on the democratic side. that ted cruz has got a pretty good lead on the republican side. wise folks, i think, will step back for a moment. look at that massive turnout and then look at where those people go. if a lot of independent leaning voters, especially blue collar voters go into that republican primary, there's a chance trump could come up. similarly, if a lot of those voters go into the democratic primary, there's a chance that bernie sanders could have a much
bigger win than is expected. >> sounds like john's a little skeptical of some of the polling we've seen. >> i think john is just injecting a healthy note of caution. most show single digit leads, especially on the republican side with three candidates, we know, we've seen from past states how those numbers can look different on primary day. >> i want to get into the weeds a bit here and let's talk about wisconsin voters specifically. we've got a map here for our viewers at home. and let's talk a little bit about how voters around the state are different based on where they live. >> it's all about the map on both sides. on the democratic side, you've got two big democratic strongholds in milwaukee and madison. milwaukee is where the african-american population is. madison is a university town. state capital. great country for bernie sanders. a lot of rural democrats. they'll figure into this and interesting about the map. we found massive regional
divides among voters in the same state. up north, he's popular in positive territory but in southeastern wisconsin, the most republican part of this state, he's really unpopular. which is hard for him because that's where republican primaries are generally decided. >> what can we attribute the unpopularity specifically in that part of the wisconsin, do you think? >> well, it's a dynamic that still has not been overly well covered by national media. and that is that wisconsin has been the number one battleground in the united states for conservative donors and groupings over the last six or seven years. since scott walker was e lek governor and went through the recall and then massive amounts of national money poured into wisconsin. they created a very strong conservative infrastructure in the milwaukee suburbs. it's fed by talk radio.
it's fed by popular web sites. it's fed by organizations on the ground and on the ground in some cases for a number of years with substantial funding and most of that network, i wouldn't say all of it but most of it has gone for ted cruz. that has just ballooned his support in that area and i mean, he is the establishment candidate in the milwaukee suburbs. and i think they're going to weigh the votes for ted cruz in those areas. but as you get outstate, go to northern and western wisconsin and some of the central parts, you still see a lot of old school somewhat more moderate conservatives who aren't as into ted cruz. >> ted cruz being the establishment candidate in wisconsin. a bit of a surprise if you asked a lot of folks six or seven months ago. thank you so much for being with me, from the "sentinel journal."
donald trump playing catch-up. he's trailing in nearly all polls we've seen and one anti-trump group is pulling back on plans for protest in favor of what they think will be perhaps a more effective strategy. trump holding a rally in superior, wisconsin, way up nth northwest corner of the state in just about an hour. earlier today, he had this to say to a protester in lacrosse. >> it actually sort of makes it more interesting though, does it? otherwise, then it can be a little bit bored. i love to take pictures that engage people
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today in lacrosse, wisconsin. next hour, we are expecting trump to touch down at an airport hangar in upstate, wisconsin. typically with the trump rally, we see dozens of protesters and in some cases, hundreds of protesters. not so doing his first stop of the debate. that's going to be apparently within a block within bernie sande sanders. where are you in wisconsin? we're trying to figure that out. >> reporter: craig, we're in downtown milwaukee right in front of the milwaukee arena. so behind me, i've been talking to police and you're going to see an incident command post that set that up for the events tonight. let me take you through what we're expecting. behind me at the arena, we have the circus, the literal circus, the shrine circus has been in town for several days and tonight is the last day.
they've got discounted tickets. they expect many hundreds of people there. right there, you have the trump rally and this is going to take place tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. you already have people in line, some from chicago. that area fits some 7,000 people. here. this is where the bernie sanders rally is going to be just beyond this area here. it's the building and the line will start around the corner. that area fits close to 5,000. i've been talking to the security and police. they say they're ready just in case everything gets ugly. craig? >> the circus has come to town. jacob rascon. not far from where i sit here in wisconsin. it should be an interesting scene later on this evening. let's get an update on the microsoft pulse question. here it was. should john kasich drop out of the 2016 race? there's the question right there. the results so far. 66% of you say no. he should not.
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♪ ain't got time to make no apologies...♪ i'm craig melvin live in milwaukee, wisconsin, at the lake front brewery. fantastic beer. fantastic cheese curds and sausage as well. more on that perhaps later. of course, we're here because they vote in wisconsin. less than 18 hours from now, the next presidential contest in the badger state. a chance for bernie sanders to up the pressure on front-runner some perhaps more importantly in
this juncture, momentum, momentum, momentum. charlie sykes, a popular conservative radio host in milwaukee. charlie, good to see you, my friend. nice to finally meet you in the flesh. i want to give you an opportunity to respond to something the gop front runner said at his rally in lacrosse a short time ago. this is what donald trump said about you. here it is. >> the machine against us. we have these dopey guys, this one guy, such a dope. i talked to him on the radio guy, some guy named sykes. he doesn't have a clue. such a one side -- i thought if you had a radio, you're supposed to be a little bit impartial. >> we believe in equal time here. your response to mr. trump. >> i'm in select company here considering what he said on the national review and everybody else in the media, but what was fascinating is he could be talking about isis or immigration or the economy or
jobs or the deficit and instead he's talking about a radio talk show host who ask him some tough questions. >> i don't want to get too much back into the interview but what i found puzzling, why did he come on your show? he had to know you weren't a fan. >> i figure you spent 50 seconds on my twitter feed. >> what do you think? >> i can't tell you what's inside his head. >> let's talk about the polling here so far. most polls indicate that ted cruz has a slight lead over donald trump right now. what are you seeing? >> i'd be surprised if ted cruz didn't come out number one, winning the state and winning most of the delegates innthe state with a win or take all by congressional district. as you discussed it earlier and accurately. ted cruz is going to do very,
very well in the southeastern wisconsin. i think probably trump will do well in the western part of the state and green bay will be the battleeround. >> trump predicted as the same rally today that he was going to have his appeal to reach democrats and he was going to see a lot of democrats coming out tomorrow to vote for him as well in the open primary. what do you say, any chance of that happening? >> a small number but he needs that because conservative republicans are not buying what he's selling. he's very unpopular in southeastern wisconsin. this is not his brand of politics. we are used to people who make sense, are rational, and reasonable. not a donald trump campaign. he's oing to need a crossover vote. i don't know he's going to get a big enough vote because voters will turn out in big numbers. these are the paul ryan, scott walker votes. >> let's play a hypothetical here. let's say that trump does go on to win a contested convention in
july. he's the gop nominee. wisconsin, a pivotal state in the general election. are you concerned at all that you and your conservative talk radio friends perhaps will have injured him irreparably in a general election? >> he has zero chance of winning a general election and in wisconsin. absolutely none. he will be annihilated which is one of the reasons why i have been never trump. we don't need to as a conservative and republican, you don't need a 1960 style blowout. which i think donald trump would experience here. >> i spent a lot of time in ohio and other states. the demographics in wisconsin should appeal to a guy like trump based on other states. why has that not happen in the badg badger state? >> we value civility, decent cd.
voter turnout. they're locked in, they're paying attention. when donald trump brings his clown car, they're not going to confuse that with an actual conservative. we're not going to buy a fake one. >> charlie sykes. conservative radio commentator. you don't seem dopey at all in person. >> i'm working on that. >> thank you for being with me in the flesh. would you believe this republican party got a start in this tiny schoolhouse? as cruz, trump, and kasich duke it out. we fast forward and see what the good voters have to say about the party today. >> wow. donald trump needs to back off. to me, he's splitting the party.
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as cruz, trump, and kasich battle to win the delegates, the party has incredible history in this state. it all started in a little white schoolhouse in rippen, wisconsin, in 1884. ja jacob soboroff went there to see what they think of the candidates today. >> reporter: this tiny schoolhouse is the birthplace of the republican party. i have got to see what is going on inside here. let's check this out. >> it was created in this room when a group of like minded individuals got together in opposition of slavery. >> they said we want to create the republican party. that's what we are going to name it. and democrats, whigs. and said republicans, raise your hand. >> pretty much. it wasn't an easy vote.
>> what's your name? >> nice to meet you. >> you are not from ripin but brought your family to bring out the place of the party. >> we've got some young republicans here. >> who are you going to vote for? >> i think you're seeing wisconsin kind of coalesce behind ted cruz. >> what about donald trump? could you see him? >> i could see him bulldozing down this schoolhouse. >> that's aggressive. >> i could see a new casino or hotel here maybe. >> this is a birthplace of the republican party and it's delicious. >> you live at the hometown. what's the take right now? >> wow. donald trump needs to back off. to me, he's splitting the party. >> you're a republican. you're looking at the state of
the republican party today. where the republican party was founded. what do you think, are you happy with the republican party? >> i am not happy with either party in our country here. i think we should all take a step back and think of something new. >> what do you think when you look at the republican field here? >> it's sick. it's just frightening. just frightening. >> how does it feel knowing they came from this town? knowing that you live here? >> it was a different time in 1854. you had the civil war coming. >> sounds like you want the republicans to come back and take a lesson at the schoolhouse. >> wouldn't that be nice. >> msnbc's jai jcob soboroff joining me. what else did voters tell you? >> reporter: we're about 15 minutes outside of downtown madison. but ted cruz is campaigning actively here. it's a rich tradition of the
wisconsin republican party hoping to seize on that and voters inside andolunteers hoping to seize on that as well. about 24 hours, we'll know a whole lot more. see if these guys were successful inside, craig. >> jacob soboroff hanging out in madison. thank you, good sir. when we come back, we'll head over to kelly's bleachers. it's a favorite of milwaukee brewers fans. today is opening day. now less than an hour away. wisconsin baseball fans, just as passionate about their politics as well. we'll take you there live next. and i'd like to... cut. so i'm gonna take this opportunity to direct. thank you, we'll call you. evening, film noir, smoke, atmosphere... bob... you're a young farmhand and e*trade is your cow. milk it. e*trade is all about seizing opportunity.
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6:00 a.m.? >> reporter: that's right, craig. this bar opened at 6:00 a.m. kelly's bleachers is about two blocks from the park. they care about politics, but they also care deeply about drinking and baseball. opening day a big one here. i'm going to give you the republican side and the democratic side. bernie sanders supporter, bernie is pulling ahead of hillary clinton. why do you think that is? >> i think wisconsin has had a long history of politics and r bern bernie's message resonates. >> bernie, why is donald trump getting your vote this year? >> i think donald trump would have the best, most positive impact for the country over the long term. i don't think we need any more of these washington politicians trying to fix things when they have no idea or interest in fixing it for the people. >> reporter: some people are saying john kasich is like number 13 showing up to a world
series. what do you think about that? >> there might be some truth to that, unfortunately. >> reporter: do you think he should drop out? >> that's his choice, but it looks like he doesn't have much longer to make that choice. >> reporter: thank you very much, bernie. craig, one interesting detail to point out here. donald trump has a bit of a baseball problem overall. he may be doing okay with voters, but owners of two teams, the chicago cubs and the arizona diamondbacks, are going hard to stop him. the cubs are rallying with the stop trump campaign, and the diamondbacks have moral arguments. back to you. >> thank you, sir. always appreciate you. lakefront brewery, downtown milwaukee. 29 years they've been brewing beer here. 12 beers on tap. they offer a lot more here. this is troy davis. he's 28 years old.
how long have you been working here? >> i've been here two years now. >> you're one of the cooks? >> yes, backstage cooking. >> i had one of your your dishe. what's the secret? >> i believe the secret would have to be a secret. >> well played, my friend. have you picked a candidate yet? >> yes, i'm supporting bernie sanders. >> you're a sanders guy. why? >> just his overall view and the logic he brings to politics can't be outbeat, i think. >> and these beers here, what do we have? >> right here we have a river west stein which i think most people would say built this building, and over here we have a hot jockey, which is a double ipa. >> which one do you think bernie sanders would go with? >> i think he would go with the river west. it's a classic. >> are you voting tomorrow? are you a primary voter?
>> yes, i will be voting for bernie sanders tomorrow. >> let's have a beer together. we'll be back here. we had so much fun, we'll be back here at 3:00 here, downtown milwaukee. of course, voters head to the polls in roughly 17 hours. my friend and colleague kate snow picking it up on the other side of this break. leadership is about vision and integrity. confidence. inspiration. and passion. pitching wedge. thanks, phil. and always having the courage to take your best shot. kpmg. continuing our commitment to the next generation of women leaders. or if you're young or old.are if you run everyday, no matter who you are a heart attack can happen without warning.
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ well, hello, everyone, i'm kate snow. we're here at msnbc headquarters in new york. all eyes on wisconsin's primary, the first major contest that could really be a test for the anti-trump forces as this hour both donald trump and ted cruz holding rallies, earlier trump predicting a win. >> i really believe tomorrow we're going to have a very, very
big victory. very, very big. >> but polls are saying something entirely different. most of the polls look like this one from emerson college which shows ted cruz with a lead, while trump talked about winning outright, cruz spent time talking about delegate primary math and why it all adds up to a win for him. >> simply ask the question, where do the rubio delegates and where do the kasich delegates go? i think they naturally come to us. and that puts us over a majority. >> we have reporters fanning out today to cover both parties' nomination fights. let's start with nbc's gabe gutierrez. he is live in superior, wisconsin, in the northwest part of the state on the minnesota border. gabe, i thought i saw snow outside a few minutes ago. donald trump expected soon this
hour. >> reporter: hi there, kate, good afternoon. yes, we did see snow a few minutes ago. thankfully the sun has come out. a crowd has gathered behind me at this airport hangar. they are covered, however, the media was literally kept out in the cold. we were snowed upon just until a few short minutes ago. now, donald trump opened his day in lacrosse, wisconsin at a rally where he really doubled down on this idea that john kasich really needs to get out of the race. he said, quote, he should get the hell out, according to donald trump. what donald trump is trying to suggest, despite him being down in the polls by double digits, he's trying to make this into -- trying to tell his supporters this is going to be a new hampshire type of scenario where he came from behind and surprised everybody in a landslide. now, we've been speaking with people here in the northwest part of the state. a lot of the folks here are actually fans of donald trump that have come from neighboring minnesota, and they say they really wanted to get out here and see him speak. others, thoughh say they're lifelong douglas county
residents, and despite obama taking 60% of the vote back in 2012, they believe donald trump can do well here. this is a blue collar area, and they feel donald trump can pull some of these independent voters. ted cruz, however, he points to himself being up by double digits in the most recent polls, and donald trump, he could do well in the contest after wisconsin. for example, new york and pennsylvania. so, really, the question will be, can donald trump pull out any type of comeback here, or will this be part of the momentum building for ted cruz as he seeks to lock up this nomination? donald trump publicly saying that he still hopes to get that magic number of 1,237 delegates before the nomination this summer in cleveland. kate? >> gabe, it's gotten so confusing over the weekend with so many battles over delegates. i had friends asking me what the heck is going on with this delegate math? and donald trump has new efforts in that vein, right? >> reporter: that's right, kate.
i couldn't hear very well because the music is playing, but in terms of the delegate math, publicly donald trump saying he will lock up this nomination before that convention in cleveland. but according to reporting from our very own ari melbur and katy tur, already assembling this team to be able to switch up and lock up these delegates before that convention this summer, really having two phases, hopefully trying to get some of these delegates into the donald trump camp before the convention. and if it does proceed to multiple ballots during that convention to be able to have a plan in place to get delegates behind that second ballot. clearly behind the scenes, the donald trump campaign, despite this theory that, oh, his campaign doesn't know what it's doing, behind the scenes, it does seem to be planning to lock this convention up or to be able to get these delegates. they are putting a plan in place to make sure these delegates go to donald trump. kate? >> gabe gutierrez following the trump campaign today.
we'll have ari melbur on a little later in the hour to break that down so we can all understand what's happening with the delegates. msnbc's kelly o'donnell is following the kasich campaign. she's not in wisconsin, folks. she's in hempstead, new yorr. what is on john kasich's agenda today and why not wisconsin? >> reporter: well, he was there, and so was i following him and other candidates, but today it's hofstra university in hempstead, new york. and that's because this is an april 19 state, looking ahead. john kasich told us that he understands. he flat out said he will lose wisconsin tomorrow but thinks he can pick up some delegates. at the same time he's still making the argument that he would be a better republican candidate to win wisconsin in the fall. well, you would have to be the nominee to do that, and part of john kasich's frustration today is that both donald trump and ted cruz have been hitting him, urging him to get out of the race. something he told voters here he would not do. he was asked by a voter, please
don't get out of the race. ask kasich talked to reporters after his event here and shared a little bit about what's on his mind. >> i'm not getting out. why would i get out? particularly when trump is worried i'm going to get his votes, which i always knew that i could do, and we're not going anywhere. we're going to be fine. you know, i spent, i don't know, a million dollars, including smearing me, ted, senator ted the smear artist. they're attacking me in wiscons wisconsin. for a guy that's not doing very well, they're sure worried about me spend ing a lot of money, trying to knock me out. >> reporter: so john kasich says the type of voter interested in supporting donald trump might also want to look at him. trump would probably dispute that to a degree, but kasich says he understands some of the anger, some of the background, some of the concern about jobs that trump voters might feel, so he thinks he can appeal there. that hit on ted cruz comes from
a new ad from a ted cruz campaign hitting john kasich. so john kasich, who tries to give a bit more optimistic vision in front of voters, is definitely taking a harsher tone in talking with reporters criticizing his rivals. ted cruz believes it's time for john kasich to get out of the race, that he only won his home state. he doesn't have enough delegates, delegates are the key to this, and believes it can be -- a kasich exit would be a benefit to ted cruz. and cruz is saying the delegate math, the rules will all be determined later, and here's cruz talking about what the delegate math will mean for him. >> washington doesn't control what happens, the delegates control what happens, and the delegates are elected by the people, but the rules committee is comprised of delegates. let me point out, we're going to arrive at the convention -- if there is a contested convention, 80% of the delegates are going to be cruz delegates or trump delegates. both donald and i have been very clear we shouldn't be changing
the rules because washington is unhappy with how the people are voting. you know, it's interesting, this rule that is in question was adopted in 2012 because the washington establishment wanted to keep rahm paul and his supporters out. now that the rule is considered inconvenient to the washington establishment, they want to get rid of it. you know what, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. rules are rules. if you want to win, win at the ballot box. >> reporter: a lot of the talk is about the rules, needing to win eight states in order to get the nomination. as senator cruz talked about, that came in in 2012, and the head of the rnc says the rules committee gets to set the tone for 2016 and determine the rules, so perhaps that particular requirement for an eventual nominee will not be in effect in 2016. this is one of those rare conversations, kate, where they're getting into the weeds on delegate math, rules, rules
committee, things we normally never talk about in a campaign season. but in 2016, that's the headline day by day, how to get to 1,237. kate? >> it's unbelievable, kelly, isn't it? we're talking about rules at the party convention. kelly, thanks so much. kelly o'donnell on long island, new york covering the kasich campaign. moricai lee is a host. gentlemen, thanks for joining me. charlie, you said that his comments on abortion and women really helped solidify the anti-trump movement in the state of wisconsin. does that mean voters are rallying behind ted cruz or do you think they're just against donald trump? >> well, i think a little bit of both those things are happening, but one of the dynamics has been that donald trump has always been underwater in wisconsin,
particularly southeastern wisconsin, and one of the things that's driving that is he's very, very unpopular with women. he has a women problem among conservative republican with him who are repelled by his attitude towards women, the things he says about women. but i think what you're seeing is also a coalescing around the one candidate who can block him. so ted cruz might not be the best fit for wisconsin for our style, but i think there is a tactical and strategic move right now that he is the one guy that can block donald trump in wisconsin, that wisconsin has to be this firewall of rationality in the craziness of this campaign. >> moracai, donald trump arguing again today that john kasich should drop out, should not be in the ballot in cleveland. kasich says no way. are we headed for a situation where the voters say one thing and the delegates that go to the republican convention say another? >> it's possible.
i think that's going on in the last four hours is tactical. trump is trying to be the comeback kid. in other words, he was behind in the polls, and it will be, let's say, relatively close tomorrow night, let's say within five points. he does what bill clinton did in new hampshire. he says, i'm the comeback kid, i'm not a loser, and i think that's the way it's going to go. very unpredictable. >> charlie, if trump wins -- just go with me here for a second. if donald trump wins your state of wisconsin, meaning that the voters want him but the delegates go on to the convention and maybe don't necessarily speak of one voice, i guess my question is, is that fair? i mean, isn't democracy supposed to work off the voters? >> well, the reality is that if donald trump wins in wisconsin, i don't see any way to stop him from getting a majority before the convention, because there is a perfect storm here in wisconsin. the anti-trump forces are lined up, whether it is the media, whether it is the superpacs, the
elected officials. if donald trump can somehow win here, he's going to roll through the rest of the primary season. on the other hand, if he is blocked here, if, in fact, he loses here, and i think he is going to lose here, then i think you have a pivot. then i think it becomes much harder for him to get to 1237. if he doesn't get to 1237, the thing we have to remember is the plurality is not a majority. if he doesn't get to 1237, he is not entitled automatically to get that nomination. that's why tomorrow is so pivotal in the wisconsin primary, determining what is going to happen going forward in the delegate selection. >> let me play you something trump said in his rally in lacrosse a little earlier this morning. he was talking about experts and how he doesn't need a lot of advice from outsiders. take a listen. >> the experts are terrible. look at the mess we're in with all these experts that we have. look at the mess. look at the middle east. if our presidents and our politicians went on vacation for
365 days a year, if they went to the beach, we would be in much better shape right now in the middle east. >> what does that tell you about what kind of a president he would be as a political scientist? >> kate, i think in american political history, sometimes we see a rift between, i guess you would call it politicalism and politicianism. i think trump is going for the democratic vote. i brought a copy of the washington balance locality becau -- ballot because i wanted your viewers to see it. the presidential ballot is the same as the democratic primary ballot. for instance, when people go to the primary to vote, they can change their mind at the last minute. that will be an indication they can switch over to trump at the last minute. >> charlie, go ahead. >> you're campaigning against expertise. it may play as a populist message, but one of the things
we're also seeing is an attack on any sort of substance, an attack on facts. and i think what we just saw in the last week, when people in the media started asking trump questions, when chris matthews started drilling down on abortion, you found out that donald trump, on issue after issue, has not spent 30 seconds thinking about it. i has not, even in this stage of the campaign, bothered to educate himself about some of these issues. it's a little bit scary. i understand he's trying to be the populist, but the reality is at some point if you want to be president, you'll have to bring in people who know stuff. by the way, that tan, he did not get that tan in wisconsin. that is not a wisconsin tan. >> not a wisconsin tan. i do feel obliged in all seriousness that you're a never trump fan. you're not a trump fan, for people who don't know. yesterday donald trump called you a lowlife who is not a real believer. you want the establishment to win because it's good for your third-rate talk show. >> i thought he would say
fourth-rate, by the way, but great moments in presidential rhetoric. abraham lincoln with malice toward non-donald trump. again, here's a guy who has every opportunity to move to actual substance, and what is he doing? he's continuing to tweet out the insults. by the way, i wear that very much as a badge of honor. >> we'll leave it at that. go ahead, go ahead. >> if i could remind you that sometimes people like to vote for somebody they like. they voted for george w. bush because they felt he was comfortable in his own skin. they don't necessarily vote for a policy walk. i'm not sure this cuts against him in terms of the demographic he's going for. >> exactly. charlie sykes and mordecai lee from the university of wisconsin. thank you. appreciate it. we've been asking you to weigh in on our microsoft pulse question. the question, should john kasich drop out of the 2016 race, as
has been suggested by his opponents. we've got 74% no, 26% saying yes. the pulse remains live. you can keep the votes coming. it's pulse.msnbc.com. are the trump and the cruz campaigns trying to block john kasich from the convention? our exclusive reporting on what exactly they're doing and why it might matter, next. a food truck, ruining your perfect record.k, yeah. now you would think your insurance company would cut you some slack, right? no. your insurance rates go through the roof... your perfect record doesn't get you anything. anything. perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.
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ari, we need your help. i had all these conversations this weekend, i'm sure you have, too, with people who are well educated and well read, but don't understand what the heck is going on with the process right now because it's very confusing. >> it's very confusing and you can know a lot about politics without knowing a lot about these delegates who are going to be some really crucial decision makers. what i reported here first on msnbc is that trump and ted cruz are working to keep kasich from the ballot. kasich has an argument against it, but it means john kasich wouldn't even be eligible to run for president in this famous rumored open convention. here is cruz and trump today responding to this story and this issue. >> there are only two candidates whose names will appear on the ballot, donald trump and myself. under the rules you have to have won eight states. there are only two candidates who will have met that threshold.
the choice will be between me and donald trump. >> here's the story with kasich. let's say he's won, and that's his own state where he has a machine behind him, et cetera, et cetera. he's 1 and 30. he ought to get the hell out, honestly. >> what trump is emphasizing is kasich should just stop running now. what cruz is saying, the lawyer that he is, goes into depth of what would happen at this open convention. it all goes back to past rules that have set a precedent, not binding, but at least a precedent, cruz and tmp safe from the last cycle, where you only let the top candidates run. i talked about a guy who you might hear more of soon, morton blackwell. he's been on the last seven convention committees. here's what he said, altering the rule now would look like an unfair effort to help certain candidates. there are only two ways that the rules regarding the nomination
process can be changed. one would be one that would split the party. and he says, no, it's only fair to let them in and the rules can be changed at each convention. >> the delegates vote at primaries, and the number of delegates get to that threshold, and boom, that person is the nominee. >> that's exactly right, kate, and i know we're out of time, but for anyone sitting at home going, it seems unfair, but the category is, look, you had rules. you had a photo finish in the top two. this is how we break a tie. if someone had gotten 71-plus, we wouldn't be talking about it. but it's only fair to let everyone run who is on that ballot. >> what about the democrats? we haven't talked about them this hour. new polls showing bernie sanders ahead in wisconsin on the eve of the primary. why does it appear that the sanders campaign is all but
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seriously though, stacy went to a great school and she's really loyal. you should give her a shot. sanjay's a team player and uh... the latest polls show bernie sanders pulling ahead of clinton. in the badger state of wisconsin, sanders is holding multiple rallies today while clinton is spending time in new york with her husband rallying on her behalf. clinton will spend time with students in upstate albany. earlier the secretary was joined by the governor about the new $15 an hour minimum wage raise, and she took a jab. >> it's important to point out that there are people that believe the minimum wage should not be raised. in fact, donald trump has said wages are too high.
[ booing ] >> clinton and sanders camps are still skwaquabbling over the ne debate. both sides say they'll do it but they can't agree on a date. bernie sanders took in $44 million in fundraising for the month of march. kasie hunt is in milwaukee, wisconsin. that's a big number of donors, but i have to ask you about the "new york times," a rather stunning article with lots of quotes on the record from sanders camp folks talking about their missteps. >> reporter: that's right, kate, a lot of discussion of what potentially went wrong, that article coming out just ahead of a day where things are expected to go right for the sanders campaign, potentially pulling out a win here in wisconsin over hillary clinton.
now, had a top sanders strategi said it was part of a conversation he had weeks ago with the newssaper as they talked about that night when they lost five states in a row. but the reality here is that in many ways the sanders campaign is in a place where they didn't expect to be when he first launched this campaign. coming up on a year ago with that slightly out of the box, quick announcement on the capitol steps that didn't seem like a presidential announcement at all, at the time many people thinking he was more of a cause candidate than someone who could actually win. and this story walks through many of the decisions that they made that lined up with being, say, that kind of a cause candidate as opposed to being somebody who was really fighting for the nomination. chief among them that sanders never went personal or negative on things like hillary clinton's e-mails, for example, or the clinton foundation. there are many lines of attack that in a more traditional campaign may have been leveled
at hillary clinton that bernie sanders did not use. and thad divine was quoted in that story to say, that's not bernie. you would be surprised to the degree in which in this campaign decisions are made by bernie sanders himself and not by staff. there are a lot of decisions that in a more traditional campaign the staff would make. in this case, often the candidate himself is driving those decisions. but bernie sanders himself sounding confident today that he was going to do well in wisconsin, talking a little bit about hillary clinton being nervous earlier today in janesville. >> if we win here, we'll have a bounce going into new york state where i think we can win. if we win in new york state, between you and me, i don't want to get hillary clinton more nervous than she already is. she's already under a lot of pressure. [ cheers and applause ]
>> so don't tell her this. >> reporter: the sanders campaign and sanders himself, obviously, feeling confident about wisconsin, but i tell you, kate, they know they have to win here preferably by a significant margin if they hope to keep any path to this nomination open for bernie sanders. >> nbc's kasie hunt out in milwaukee, wisconsin. brian is here. hello, brian. >> how are you? >> let's talk about wisconsin. the latest poll from new york showing hillary clinton is 10% ahead of bernie sanders. there's the poll from new york. her lead has shrunk 12 points, though, from the week before. any concerns? >> in new york, no. i think it will be a competitive contest, for sure.
you have closeness in new york, but it's a very progressive party. you have the working sanders party supporting sanders in new york, so we expect a tightening in new york but we're very proud of the organization we built for new york. obviouslily she had $20 billion of aid. she was in syracuse last week meeting with people she had helped. we're going to campaign in all parts of the state. >> if he wins wisconsin tomorrow, a lot of people saying that would give him some momentum and maybe new york is in play again. >> well, he, according to all the public polling, does have a lead in wisconsin. i have one lead from emerson that has us down to double digits. we know we have our work cut out for us, but we're going to run the tape in wisconsin and give it all we've got until the polls close tomorrow. just to put things in perspective, i saw one estimate
today that even if senator sanders won wisconsin by 40 points, which no public poll is suggesting, he would still need to win 57% of the remaining delegates in all the rest of the contests, and there's just no basis to believe that in a big, diverse state like new york he's going to achieve anything like that type of benchmark, to say nothing of a state like california which is later in the schedule in june. >> i have to ask you about the disagreement over debates. your colleague calina shockey was with me last week saying, we're almost there. we'll have an agreement on when there will be a debate. we sit here a week later and we still don't have an agreement. what gives? >> i think we're actually getting close, and i think we had a significant breakthrough today. the sanders campaign had recently proposed april 14. we had agreed to that date. but now the sanders campaign said, well, we weren't sure it
was going to come together, so we went ahead and planned a rally in new york city. but mayor de blasio generously stepped in and said we'll do whatever we can to make sure they can have their debate in new york city.% so we have met with his debate date on thursday. they'll do it in new york, which is what he's always wanted. hopefully we'll have an agreement in the next few hours. >> so battle of brooklyn here? >> i believe senator sanders has a lot of support. he's from brooklyn himself, he's a native. he'll run strong in new york, and we feel confident we'll run victorious. as a result, senator sanders will only slip behind in the delegate contest. i think that's behind the quotes that you saw in the front page
campaign. they're out there being scrappy and insisting on debates, but i think there is a sense of frustration setting in because they realize the delegate math is so daunting. >> to be fair, ted divine said it was several weeks ago that. >> donald trump and ted cruz with dueling campaign locations. up next, a live report on the ground with the trump campaign. plus, we'll talk to a member about the stop trump movement about whether this is starting to resonate. and you got this turning. that's why i need this kind of resolution and computing power. being able to use a pen like this on the screen directly with the image, it just gives me a different relationship to it and i can't do that on my mac.
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this is lloyd. to prove to you that the better choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. lunch my knee yep... another pi stop. can i get my aleve back yet? for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap. welcome back to msnbc, the place for politics. right now donald trump about to hold a rally at an airport hangar in superior, wisconsin. also at any moment now, senator ted cruz is about to appear at
mars cheese castle. it's a big landmark in kenosha, wisconsin. we'll bring you both events as soon as they happen. first let's check in with jacob r rascon. he's in milwaukee. i think you said there is not a big social media drive to get people out tonight. what are they expecting? >> reporter: so the snow has just started to come down, but officers say this is not going to deter the big crowds. not necessarily protesters, but here's the issue. behind me you have the literal circus coming to town tonight. then right here you have the trump event, and it will seat inside more than 6,000 people. and then across the street, you have the bernie sanders event, and that, the inside there seats more than 5,000 people. so they've set up an incident command post and they have more officers than usual, because they know as we know, that most
trump protestors happen to be bernie sanders supporters, so if ttey march over here and engage with the trump supporters, they want to be drid fready for anyt. >> tomorrow could be a tipping point. we've been hearing about it all hour. it's manifesting in polls like this one which shows ted cruz with a five-point lead right now. the anti-trump group has spent more than $1.7 million. senior adviser to the anti-trump group and formerly with the jeb bush campaign. nice to see you again. >> kate, thanks for having me. >> yeah. let's talk about efforts there and how tomorrow could be a tipping point. do you think that you're there, or do you think you still have work to do in wisconsin? >> you know, look, we're going to find out tomorrow night.
i think what we're doing is looking at the state of wisconsin and doing the best we can to maximize our efforts to tamp down the donald trump vote. tomorrow's race is a winner by all for part of the state but also winner by district, so the more districts that we can win, the more delegates that we can win, and everybody has to remember this is a delegate fight. over the weekend we had kind of an unheralded win in north dakota where -- >> i was just going to ask you about that. excuse the interruption, but north dakota, in case people don't know, they on sunday had to have this whole big meeting to decide where their unassigned, unbound delegates would go. you're claiming victory there. i know the trump campaign has said, oh, no, no, a lot of them like us. what did you do differently, though, in north dakota? you actually had people on the ground working in the room trying to get those delegates to proclaim their support against donald trump? >> yeah, we had local delegates who did not like trump on the ground sending back intelligence to us, and basically what they
were doing is working the delegates in the room. we passed out basically a form that went through all of the issues in which donald trump is not a conservative, and then as north dakota, basically, they went to vote on a slate of delegates, and you could vote on who could be on that slate. obviously we were encouraging the delegates that did not like donald trump -- there was a huge goofr goof on the donald trump side where they had a congressman who would have automatically been a delegate if he chose to be on the slate. kevin cramer didn't ask to be on the slate, and we're looking around at 19 to 20 delegates being non-trump with three or four question marks. that was a big loss. as you look to wisconsin tomorrow, the state numbers are important, but so are the districts, three delegates to every district. we expect this to be a very close race, so all that stuff really matters. i think donald trump with his anti-woman remarks this week have really helped us with that effort. >> i have to ask you about opening day for baseball,
because i was realizing that the owners of both the cubs and the diamondbacks are pouring money into the never trump movement. your group has raised nearly 8 million since january. i think about 5 million of that, if that's about right, came from the. up until now it didn't that happen that their investment had really paid off, but you think tomorrow it will. >> if we're talking about sports, i have to give a shout-out to villanova. as far as the ricketts, they've supported a lot of tea party primaries in the past in races in iland i will across the country, and basically what they were doing was saying, donald trump is not a conservative, we can't trust him to be the president, he doesn't share our values, so we'll exercise our
first amendment right to try to stop him from doing that. and in typical donald trump fashion, he leveled personal attacks against them on twitter, because that's what he likes to do, childish attacks. the good news was when people started seeing those tweaks, we got more endorsements. >> let's get another update on today's pulse question. our question, should john kasich drop out of the 2016 race? here's the latest from our scoreboard right now. you can keep the conversation going at pulse.msnbc.com. polls show donald trump trailing ted cruz in wisconsin just hours before the primary there. we're keeping our eye on events that will happen there and we'll tell you why a trump win in the badger state could be pivotal, coming up. is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves?
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for voter turnout. the state's government accountability board predicts a 40% turnout in tomorrow's primary. that's about 1.75 million voters, the highest in a state primary since 1980 if it happens. right now cruz is favored among voters to take the state, as we said, but this delicate knife fight we're witnessing could reshape the race either way. jason stein is the state capitol reporter for the milwaukee sentinel. thanks for being with us from milwaukee. >> thank you, kate. >> help us walk through for people not from wisconsin and the way the voting works there. it's pretty much open, people can vote for whoever they want, but how do the delegates give it away or apportion the candidates? >> it's different for each party, but crucially on the republican side, you get about 18 delegates for winning the state. if you win by one vote, you get those, then there are three
delegates for each of our eight congressional districts. if you win that by one vote, you get all those delegates. ted cruz could walk away with a majority of those. >> that's why we see john kasich the other day pulled some money out of one area and put it into ads in another area, because they're targeting the actual congressional districts. >> right. and there is a chance he picks up one district around madison and in the western and northern part of the state, donald trump is likely to pick up some delegates, even if, on a whole, he does poorly in the state. >> we talked about voter enthusiasm as i was leading into you. it really is true. i've been to wisconsin in prior elections. people get into this there. >> absolutely. and what you have to understand is we're a purple state, but it's not that everyone in the state is purple, it's that there is lots of blue and red people who are very energized, and when they win, very happy, and when
they lose, very unhappy, and all of that has made the state very engaged, very proactive when it comes to politics, and you're certainly seeing that in this primary. >> for trump, if he loses tomorrow, does that demonstrate some weakness if you look at the demographics of wisconsin? what does it say to you if he loses? >> well, we are a state that has a lot of white working class voters, so it's certainly a demographic where trump could do well. i think it may speak to the fact that he has made some unusual choices in this state. he's made some controversial statements, he's run against our republican governor scott walker who, among gop primary voters, is very popular. so he certainly could have played his cards differently than he has. >> jason stein with the milwaukee journal sentinel. jason, thank you so much for being with us. >> my pleasure. up next, what's wisconsin's controversial new voter i.d. law meaning for everyday voters? we'll check in on that.
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in 2011, wisconsin governor scott walker signed act 23, which requires voters to present approved forms of photo i.d. before they receive a ballot. after a series of legal challenges, tuesday's wisconsin primary will actually be the first time that law is fully implemented in a presidential election. msnbc's tony dekoepel has more on how this new law is affecting voters. tony? >> i'm here at a very popular bar here. what people don't realize is the i.d. they used to get them inside won't necessarily help them at the voter booth. and that could have a very huge impact on tomorrow's election. take a look. last month matt and jessica hegdahl moved to wisconsin in search of a job. >> oh, my goodness.
it's so cold, isn't it? >> reporter: and found themselves at the center of a crucial primary. >> it's so close for the candidates. i really feel, like, excited about voting for one of the first times in my life. you want to take your hat off? >> reporter: while their montana driver's license will get them on a plane, it won't get them into the voting booth. so they're spending their saturday morning at the dmv. under a new law, wisconsin voters need an accepted form of photo identification, something an estimated 300,000 already registered voters lack. >> there's going to be a lot of folks without the right i.d. and bringing i.d.s that don't count. >> reporter: among the excluded? valid out of state driver's licenses and student i.d.s. more than a dozen states have new voting requirements, most in the name of stopping fraud. but a recent review of more than a billion votes found only 31 suspicious cases. critics say the new laws will stop more votes than they
secure. for the hegdahls, the main hurdle was money. $60 for a pair of wisconsin licenses. do you think it should be part of the voting process, or do you think it's an extra burden on people like yourself? >> having come from states where there is nothing like this, i think it's just archaic and terrible. >> reporter: they got the extra cash from votewriters, a non-profit that gets people to the ballot box or at least to the line outside. >> i know, for example, idaho and arizona, they had, like, five-hour waits for their lines, so i'm just hoping it won't be that bad, but i'm going to be prepared. >> reporter: so, kate, a couple numbers to call out on that package. the first one is $68. that's what it cost that couple to get driver's licenses that would allow them to vote tomorrow. another important number, 300,000. that is the estimated number of
wisconsin voters who will be unable to go to the polls unless they get that i.d. problem solved. that could have a significant outcome on the election. the candidates themselves have taken real issue with this law saying it disproportionately affects poor and minority voters, and those voters, not coincidentally, happen to vote democratic by and large. back to you, kate. >> and tony, what does the governor, scott walker, say about all this that will happen tomorrow? >> reporter: scott walker is responding to the criticism of both the sanders and the clinton campaign. he put out a tweet saying voting should be easy but also secure. and again, the critics say, well, you're going to stop more votes than you're going to secure it with a law like this one. >> tony dokoupil. go inside and get warm, maybe get a beverage. >> we'll try. i'm kate snow. my colleague craig melvin picks up coverage right after the
break from wisconsin. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. hey! this is lloyd. to prove to you that the better choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. yep... another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief
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and a good monday afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin from the lakefront brewery in downtown milwaukee. great brews, great brats and fantastic cheese curds here as well. milwaukee the largest city in wisconsin. more than 600,000 living in and around the city. consider wisconsin's official state motto: forward. the voting will take place in five or six hours. the never trump crowd could strike a blow to the gop frontrunner after a tough month of march. and just as hillary clinton was starting to look forwarddto new
york and perhaps beyond, all of a sudden bernie sanders with an opportunity to crawl back if he can win big. so forward we go on this primary eve. our team continues to remain fanned out all over the state today, following the candidates and speaking to voters before they head to the polls here. we start, though, with gabe gutierrez who is at the exact opposite end of the state from me, six hours away north in superior, wisconsin where donald trump set to take the stage any minute there, i understand. right, gabe? >> reporter: yeah, that's right, craig. good afternoon, and thankfully the snow just stopped here a short time ago, but as you mentioned, donald trump just about to take the stage here at this airport hangar. more than a thousand people, at least, are here to see him and his campaign, as they often do, say thousands more had to stay outside. he, of course, is down i