tv Morning Joe MSNBC April 5, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT
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>> that's awesome. this is a little spicy. you may not like it. [ laughter ] >> it's the perfect size for you right there. >> will you put it on your head? >> no. my girls will. >> why not? >> there is an ironclad rule of politics. which is no funny hats. any hat by definition is defined as a funny hat. michael dukakis demonstrated it when he put on a hat and rode in a tank. i will cheer the hats on others. >> don't you think the people of wisconsin want to see you in a cheese hat. >> i think the people of wisconsin wear their cheese to powerfully, i would not presume to intrude on the way in which they wear the hats. >> it's shakespearean. >> it is so awful. >> it is so awful. >> what's going on in your state? who do you want? nobody, right? >> somebody who has three cheese heads in his tv room downstairs. i wouldn't put one on my head
either. you kind of look like a dope. >> you do? >> it's a big chunk of cheese. >> you have them but you never wear them. >> i have them signed. >> have you ever worn them at a game? >> i have not. >> how will ted cruz do in your home state? >> probably win, right? certainly looks like he'll win. to me it really does reset the race in a different way. he should win. >> it's so painful to watch them in their final moments to try to close it. it's ted cruz and his delivery. i'm sorry. i can't stand it. you guys all can't stand it. i'm sorry. >> to break into a to be or not to be when talking about a cheese head. >> it's all so unbelievably disingenuous. >> the cheese head? >> the performance. like what is all this? it's not true, right? come on, nicolle. you watch like this. this is how nicolle watches ted cruz. >> that's the cold medicine. >> no! it's you who have run campaigns
who knows it's so painful. >> he is a staffer. when staffers become candidates they're self-conscious about the performance. >> really? >> what do you think, nicolle? >> i know if it was hillary clinton everyone would say it's sexist. >> i think ted cruz is only appealing in the context of the choices that remain. and so -- >> what a great campaign ad. >> well, come on! >> here we are, right? i'm with you. >> is that how he talks at the family dinner table? >> yes, i believe it is! you've heard him read his child's fairy tale. my god. i don't know how the kids sleep. >> let's read the rest of the show that way. >> you watch as if you were watching a slow-motion car wreck. good morning. it's april 5th. it's true. i'm saying what you're all
thinkingme thinking. his delivery makes your skin crawl. it's like fingernails on a chalk board. >> managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin with us to help us. former director for president george w. bush nicolle wallace and the president and ceo of politico, wisconsin's own jim vandehei. mika, these races are crazy. you look at the polls. we see polls showing bernie ahead. we've seen some polls yesterday that show hillary catching up. like she was going to win. >> right. >> a poll out shows bernie zooming ahead. on the republican side, same thing. looks like cruz has a four or five-point lead. another poll or two that came out that showed trump ahead or catching up. >> i don't really get it. >> nobody knows. nobody knows but mark halperin.
that's the way i like it. >> let the voters decide. >> let the voters -- wait. are you with ted cruz? >> yes, please, ted! >> we live in a constitutional republic, and the glory of that is -- >> let the voters decide. >> let the pundits and the politicians and the pollsters can all get around, and they can express what they want in their new york values. but at the end of the day it comes -- >> you gotta close it. >> close it? how do i close it? >> you need a little more ned flanders in here. >> a little more ned flanders. >> there is a texas twang. >> i'm working on the cadence first. >> he's a little more shakespeare meets i don't know who. but it's painful. >> he may be your party's nominee, by the way. >> well, that's going to be fantastic! >> it will be the people and not the -- i got to get the texas
thing. it will be the people and not the elite establishment and pollsters. >> you can't do it. you can't be that annoying. >> not the washington cartel? >> i don't like the washington cartel. >> mika, can i hear an amen on that? >> you're a rebel! >> here we go. >> the speaker -- >> should we save it till later, the villanova thing? >> no! incredible game last night. >> let's go to the videotape. >> let's go to the tape! >> really quickly. this is the ncaa. >> have to do something from the outside now. paige, off balance. puts it up. oh, impossible! how did he do that? ties the game with 4.7 seconds to go. villanova trying to go the length of the court. ar gives it to jenkins for the
championship. yes! villanova! phenomenal. >> absolutely unbelievable! first time villanova has won the ncaa since an extraordinary upset in 1985. those of us old enough to remember. remember the extraordinary win but nothing as far as last-second dramatics. jim vandehei, matches what we saw last night from unc and villanova answering. >> especially after the awful two games before to get to this, which were awful. an amazing ending by a team, an awesome collection of people, none who will end up in the kna north carolina. criminal defense.
>> you have to put this with villanova's win in '85 and nc state's win in '84. mark halperin, two of the great -- one of the great finishes in ncaa basketball history. >> i was on campus with john kasich a few weeks ago where he predicted they might win, by the way. that campus is basketball mad. >> yeah. >> it is not as big a powerhouse as north carolina and other schools but they are crazy bad. >> love their basketball. >> the celebration they had after they won ended about an hour ago. we have to get back to politics. the democrats debate over debate has officially come to an end i think. hillary clinton and bernie sanders face off in brooklyn on april 14th five days before the new york primary. the sniping between the two candidates didn't stop even after the negotiations were finished. the sanders campaign released a statement reading in part, fortunately we were able to move a major new york city rally scheduled for april 14th to the night before. we hope the debate will be worth
the inconvenience for thousands of new yorkers who were planning to attend our rally on thursday but will have to change their schedules to accommodate hillary clinton's jam packed high dollar coast to coast schedule of fund raisers across the country. a clin campaign official issued this statement saying, quote, we had thought the sanders campaign would have accepted our offer for a brooklyn debate on april 14th in new york in a new york minute but it ended up taking a few extra days for them to agree. we are glad they did. >> while that sniveling is going on on both sides -- >> glad they're debating. new republican polls. donald trump is holding steady among republican primary voters, at least nationally. latest nbc news survey monkey online liking poll shows him relatively unchanged, down three points. if you had a week donald trump had last week and you didn't
completely flame out, if you didn't see that plane going into the ground, you'll probably take minus three. ted cruz, the guy i just -- i can't imitate. it's kind of disturbing. 28%. john kasich holding steady at 18%. >> i think i can, which is scary. today wisconsin voters go to the polls. donald trump is contemplating the prospect of being shut out which is winner take all by state and district votes. a loss for ted cruz would likely be considered a devastating blow to his campaign. the final poll from emerson college shows cruz with a narrow lead over trump. 40-35. five-point difference that's barely above the margin of error. john kasich holding fast at 21%. cruz and trump were both campaigning hard yesterday, making retail stops alongside governor scott walker in a cheese shop with trump holding three rallies, hoping to send the senator down for the count, comparing walker's support for cruz with nikki haley's support
for marco rubio in south carolina. >> the governor is against me. and i remember with nikki haley when she came out and it was over, and then i won in a landslide, south carolina. it was over. and i have a feeling the same thing will happen here. because walker has not done a great job. he has not done a good job. he is -- by the way, he's been okay. you're average. i hate to say it. you look around your surrounding states, you know what you are, average! you're not average people, right? so big deal. you got the governor. and the only reason he's doing it, he hates cruz. they all hate cruz. everybody hates cruz. cruz gets up. he says, i'm the only one -- you know with his -- i wish he could just talk normally every once in a while. you ever hear the -- i'm the only one that has proven that i can beat donald trump. >> donald trump recently
questioned whether your governor can ride a harley. i would encourage donald, come on down. i think scott would be happy to give donald a ride, maybe give him a little side cart that he could hold on to. you're right. it would mess up his hair. actually, i don't know that it would. it might be that a hundred miles an hour, that might not move. >> okay. you were laughing. you were laughing at trump. a couple of times. >> i was laughing at trump a couple of times. yeah. [ laughter ] >> if you're not laughing you're crying at this point, right? >> you know how many primaries trump has lost so far? three. texas and ohio, two home states. oklahoma, basically another home state. >> the rest are caucuses. >> if he loses tonight, it's his first kind of neutral state
primary loss. >> primary that he's lost. >> in an open primary. >> what are you thinking? what are you saying? you think it might be closer than we're all saying or -- >> everything i knowi suggests not. trump could get anywhere -- about six delegates. if he gets six, arguably worst night since iowa. >> reset the campaign? i hear people saying it's going to reset the campaign. >> neither cruz nor kasich have proven they can challenge trump in the northeast. that's what it's about. can either of them give trump a challenge in the northeast. it's not there today. the question is does wisconsin produce that dynamic. i'm not sure it does. >> the other problem with trump running against the establishment when he's bashing walker, in the state people like walker. fav favorable 85%. the big question is, one, it
looks like a much bigger turnout than in 20 years. so much of the coverage right now is out of milwaukee. that's a different type of republican than you find once you go north of milwaukee. if the turnout is super high above milwaukee, there is a chance. >> nicolle, i thought he made a mistake and said it on the air that he was attacking lindsey graham in south carolina. why do you attack a guy who is really popular among some republicans there. and i said the same thing when he started attacking nikki haley. nikki haley was very popular there as well. it seems like those endorsements only fed on his outsider status. >> i think it was a different moment in the candidacy, though. i think the difference with wisconsin is you have a very active grass-roots, talk radio culture. a very educated and active political electorate because of the recalls. you have almost a statewide political press corps and a very active -- reminds me of sort of
a florida during the bush years. >> right. >> they do not -- this is what a nationalized election by and large. i don't think wisconsin fits that mold. they have their own media markets and their own conversation. i think this is a rare case where trump misread the state political climate a little bit. i think going to ryan's hometown and trashing him -- i don't think it hurt him. i don't know that it helped him. >> you go to janesville, wisconsin. if i were campaigning i would say where is the statue to paul ryan so i can lay flowers there. >> at least not kick him in the face. >> no, no, no! i'm just saying. you always. hey -- i can predict myself. hey, it is so great to be here in janesville, wisconsin. paul ryan, what an extraordinary story. i mean, this is a guy that wins in a -- we need more people like paul ryan. donald trump goes in and kicks him. he kicks nikki haley. popular nikki haley. you go, no, that's just not a
really smart thing to do. and he wins. i'm not saying he's going to win tonight, but i do think it would be -- i think that's who he is. we'll see if it works. >> the information flowing against trump in wisconsin has been bad and it continues to be bad. he is not ahead in the polls. he was in south carolina. the polls drive so much of the coverage. all the flaps from last week, the fact cruz has these endorsements, he's bringing in surrogates in the talk radio thing. day in and day out trump is not winning news cycles. >> are you surprised as badly as trump was performed over the last couple of weeks, it's been horrific, that he's only down five points in the polls? >> no. you go back to michael dukakis, "saturday night live." cruz and kasich don't bring a ton to this. trump can slump and still do pretty well in this field. >> also the fact that, if you
think about the conversation we had on this show before the primaries in the south. he has a floor and a ceiling. he has not gone below the floor. he's been where he's been in wisconsin for months in terms of the 30% range. others dropped out and others could rise up. >> eugene robinson writes in the "washington post," don't count trump out so far. imagine the worst-case scenario for him. he wins none of wisconsin's 42 convention delegates in tuesday's primary while his nearest rival, senator ted cruz, wins them all. even with that improbable result trump would have a huge lead over cruz in the delegate race. a wisconsin shutout would make it more difficult for trump to reach the magic number of 1237, but it would remain nearly impossible for cruz to get there. so reports of trump's demise are surely premature. once again, i'm afraid they may be largely the product of wishful thinking. >> that's all we've really had
in reporting over the past month or two when it comes to analyzing this race. it's been nine months of wishful reporting. it's really hard to read these people who have been wrong every single month talking about trump's imminent demise. >> the most dramatic thing that could happen is it becomes more difficult for him to get to 1237. >> wisconsin has all these factors making it relatively bad for trump. the northeast are next up. a lot of big states including new york with a lot of delegates. no one has shown that either cruz or kasich can really challenge him. trump may romp in the northeast, and then he's back on track to a majority. >> who is -- the "new york times" had an article several weeks ago saying his two strongest areas were alabama and upstate new york. how will trump do in jersey and connecticut? >> watch him on long island. >> long island is going to be --
unless things change dramatically -- long island, upstate york will be massive. >> yeah. >> areas of trump support. >> i think that his competitive identity will sort of shine through if he has a defeat. i think he's certainly capable of making adjustments. i don't think he'll do any wholesale renovation of his personality, but the notion that he can't sort of make adjustments or improve his -- his campaign isn't very strong. it's really just him. the notion that he couldn't improve upon his ground game or his campaign operation or his message in the two intervening weeks is ridiculous. >> let me ask you this -- i'm sorry. >> watch cruz's speech tonight. does he give a national speech making the case or make jokes about donald's hair if he wins. >> cruz is not going to do well in new york and new jersey and california. he's not. i don't know where that campaign goes. and john kasich -- john kasich needs to do better than third place in wisconsin. i love kasich.
i have been clear that since jeb is out i'll be supporting kasich but a third place finish in wisconsin is not good enough. it's not good enough. you do have to start asking why is john kasich still around if he can't at least come in second in a neighboring state. really quick, i got to check -- i'll report on my brother. your parents. are they still for trump? >> they are. they did not enjoy his last two weeks. i think peggy noonan had it right about how some of his supporters have become embarrassed by his more outrageous antics. my parents are especially uncomfortable with his ongoing feud with megyn kelly. they think it's petty and beneath him. they would never be ted cruz voters. while they like kasich, they don't see how he wins. >> my brother's biggest problem is he a -- he needs to dig deeper. he needs to dig deeper. we need to hear more. okay. he's like a salesman of sorts. he's like, okay, you got the sale.
what are you going to do with it. dig deeper. he's still there. he's still with him. he is a conservative christian guy. he it offended. he keeps trying to talk his wife into supporting trump and every time he gets close trump will say something offensive and say, i'm never voting for that guy. no, i'm not going to vote for him. sorry to get so deep into your personal politics there, george and sarah, but i think it's very telling that you have my brother, a conservative christian who rolls his eyes at a lot of the more offensive things, and then, you know, his wife, who he keeps trying to bring on board who keeps being offended. i think that might be a microcosm of some of the other problems he's having with women. >> and the supporters sticking. but his problem now is the inability to bring new people on. >> the expansion. >> donald trump is campaigning on long island tomorrow. still ahead on "morning joe," u.s. secretary of state, john kerry joins us on set.
continued full coverage of today's critical race in wisconsin. we'll go live to milwaukee where the polls open in less than two hours. also, chuck todd and andrea mitchell both join the table. >> have you heard my bill karins impression? it's as bad as my ted cruz. >> i'm so cold. when is it going to get warmer? >> we is it going to be warm? she's cold. >> one of the warmest marches we have ever seen across the country and now we're dealing with like a week and a half here of cold, nasty april weather. mika, you're not alone. the wisconsin forecast first. we have light areas of rain, sleet and snow mixed in minnesota in iowa. later on it will transfer in wisconsin. it won't be horrible. maybe a coating to an inch. this is 6:00 p.m. as people are getting out of work and school and heading to vote. we'll see that through the madison area. green bay to milwaukee shouldn't arrive until 9:00 or 10:00. hopefully after people are done
voting. talking about the cold. freeze warnings in the carolinas through the southern ohio valley. it was so warm that like the apple blossoms and the peaches and some of the strawberries in the carolinas, all those blossoms are out. when we get temperatures like this, farmers are scared they'll lose some of the crops. 24 in ohio 10 in syracuse. the windchill is worse. new york windchill is 19. 19 in d.c. you get the picture. it is going to stay cold like this on and off through the upcoming weekend. if you are in the southern half of the country you're already experiencing early summer weather. on the west coast, you'll get a little hot. new york city windchill in the teens. it will be in the 20s all day long. unfortunately, cold right through the weekend. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. every day you read headlines about businesses being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime.
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2 1/2 points. it's close! the final poll from emerson college has the senator up eight, a four-point swing in his favor since two weeks ago. sanders held several events across wisconsin yesterday from janesville to green bay to milwaukee. look at those crowds. his final prime-eve rally took place literally around the corner from donald trump's. meanwhile, clinton campaigned in new york alongside governor andrew cuomo and touted his efforts as that state passed an increase in the minimum wage. >> feelings have to be matched with politics. he had to put together the votes. >> that's right! >> now, some people get bored by that kind of talk. don't bother me with the details. let's just make it sound good. let's just feel good. well, i think we would still be sounding and feeling good if it hadn't been for the hard work
and the incredible commitment that the governor made to this issue. >> if there's a large voter turnout, we will win here. if we win here, we're going to have a bounce going into new york state, where i think we can win. if we win in new york state, between you and me i don't want to get hillary clinton more nervous than she already is. she's already under a lot of pressure. [ cheers and applause ] >> so don't tell her this. but i think we win here, we win in new york state, we're on our way to the white house. thank you all very much! >> wow! so -- and she does go -- i guess it doesn't matter. she'll win. >> what's that? >> she goes across country and raises money for like $300,000 a plate. it's all -- the difference between the two candidates is --
>> pretty stark. >> -- pretty stark and pretty clear to a message that is a winning message. but ultimately i guess the coronation will happen. >> jim, she is kind of kicking back into 2008 knocking obama mode. sure he can speak. sure he is exciting. sure, you love him. sure, you're swept up on your feet by him. sure, he makes you believe again that america can be a remarkable place to live. and sure, he makes you believe that democratic values are more than just empty platitudes that we say every year to get your vote but i'm going to get more votes. it's just not an inspiring message. she is back -- that, what we just showed was sort of 2008. >> why their campaign goes longer than it goes longer than it needed to go. someone like sanders, wisconsin is a great state for him. you have a liberal senator and ron johnson on the other side. russ finegold who can replace
ron johnson. for her, i think there is a feeling in the campaign that i can't believe we're losing to this crazy old man. they keep underestimating his capacity to out-perform what they think he'll do in these states. >> does she have to do these fund raisers in the middle of a primary? >> she does. she can't cough and raise a million dollars like bernie sanders. she actually has to do what pedestrian politicians have done for hundreds of years. >> so who is giving her all this m money. >> really rich people. >> who? who are they? >> mika, if you're looking for people driving in the car right now, we're showing march fund raising totals. bernie sanders $44 million. doesn't hold a single fund raising event. hillary clinton holding fund raising events across america, $29.5 million. it's extraordinary. big wheels keep on rolling. >> what's incredible, sanders and trump in many ways defy political gravity, right, the normal physics. he lost the nomination
effectively in march probably and yet he badly outraced her. that's not the way politics works. normally you do well at the ballot box and people give you money because they think you're going to win. you know how many events she has to do to raise $15 million? >> if the democrats didn't have a superdelegate system, would they be heading toward a contested convention in the same way we might be? >> she is ahead in pledged delegates. >> if they were more proportional, would their system be up-ended. >> if you completely eliminated the superdelegates it would still be hard for him to catch up. the only way for him to be the nominee now is to get closer in superdelegates and say to the delegates from wisconsin, you can't vote against your state. >> let's point this out. i said kasich needed to come in second. sanders, he has to win tonight, right? >> oh, my -- >> if he does not win tonight -- >> if he doesn't win tonight
they'll begin the process they're waiting to start which is to have some say he should get out of the race and they should unify. bill clinton will start saying it. tad devine said that on the record. >> this is his state, though. this state is built for bernie sanders. >> he needs to win wisconsin and new york. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe." >> i beat hillary in many of the polls that have been take been, and each week i get better and better. believe me, i haven't even started on her yet. >> donald trump has been foreshadowing an all-out assault on hillary clinton. so how is the clinton camp preparing for the insult machine? actually, i think he's -- this is going to fall flat. that's ahead. stay with us.
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i think she doesn't have the stamina. you watch her -- her life. you watch how she'll go away for three, four days. she'll come back. she'll go -- i don't think she has the stamina. >> there are several themes they keep beating the drums on. i'll match my endurance against anybody. >> wow. from little marco to lyin' ted. is weak hillary the latest moniker we might be hearing from donald trump.
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♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. i think low energy was a brutal statement, right? by the way, low energy can be applied to hillary. i just don't like to use the same thing twice on one of my enemies, right? >> joining us now -- >> okay, then. >> he's going to have to think of something different, i guess. you have to admit. >> yes. >> low energy had a huge impact on jeb. it was a brand that just destroyed him. >> it really did. you heard this time and time again throughout the campaign, people going to their dentist or somebody else and asking, are you going to vote for jeb? >> no, no.
he's kind of weak. low energy. >> everybody said it. >> everybody said it. it works. ted cruz said. the brilliant thing about lyin' ted cruz, he was saying that while they were in evangelical states. he kept saying how can you be a christian and lie all the time. he kept pounding it, pounding it. >> joining us now political correspondent of the "washington post," anne gearan. she writes about how the clinton team is preparing for the onslaught of trump's insults, which trump said yesterday haven't even begun. take a listen. >> i could be presidential. if i was presidential, only about 20% of you would be here because it would be boring as hell. i will say. let me be unpresidential for a little while longer. and maybe i'll be a little bit unpresidential as i beat hillary, because, oh -- don't forget, i haven't started on hillary yet. i haven't focused on hillary. >> my gosh, what does that mean, anne?
what does he mean? >> he's obviously making a threat and a joke at the same time, right? >> what's the threat? >> that he has not only insults but presumably a whole line of attack to go against her in the general election. which he hasn't had to roll out yet. i did notice yesterday he also said that he has a nickname for her that he would wait until the general election to reveal. so let the betting pools start now what that is. >> yes. >> i mean, he clearly is already trying to use the same tactic against her that was so effective against jeb bush and little marco rubio. >> little marco. we had that one. and lyin' ted. >> in all three of those examples, the thing that he -- the moniker that he hung on them already sort of resonated with people. it went to something that people already thought or felt. >> predisposed. >> so it stuck. that is exactly what the clinton people are worried about and trying to fight against.
>> how are they preparing? because the campaign seems mechanical. it seems like, you know, this giant rock them, sock them robot in the middle of the ring. then you have trump, as unpredictable as anybody in major american politics. >> yeah. they are preparing in the usual ways that you would prepare against a general election candidate, with opposition research, with things that they think will resonate with people. >> what can they learn about donald trump that they don't know right now? >> his business practices mostly. try to go -- i mean, how do you do op-o on somebody who has no votes. the traditional way is to go after a politician on the things they've voted for or against. >> and how do you attack him on business when he holds a press conference bragging that he is $9 billion in debt. it's crazy. >> and that he has abused the tax code for his own purposes. >> abused -- right. who knows, maybe they'll find a
tape from howard stern where he says unkind things about women -- oh, wait, they did. >> yeah. >> none of those things have stuck to him. >> well, there is a reason for that, which i'm not going to get into right now, but we'll get to it when we have to, when we're forced. >> okay. >> did hillary clinton -- >> that's a deep tease. i think that's a general election tease right there. >> there is a reason for that. are you guys getting me? you don't know what it is. >> what are you talking about? >> she's going to say meet me at camera 5. >> i'm going to make it come out of someone else's mouth. >> i think she's -- she's referencing bill clinton right there is what she's doing. >> come on! you all are not like born yesterday. anne -- >> we did fall off the turnip truck. >> did hillary clinton receive money from donald trump? >> yes. >> does she take money from entities that she disagrees with
wholeheartedly and thinks have no moral compass? she takes a lot of money from a lot of people. can the money be dirty money? can the money be from wall street? can the money be from people with nefarious positions. >> donald trump himself said he gave money to everybody who might have a hand in new york politics when he was trying to build hotels in new york city. that's why he gave it, and she would have received it from him -- >> anybody. >> what's so fascinating, anne, that cuts both ways. if hillary clinton is such a horrible human being and low energy or whatever he said, why did he contribute to her three times? and if donald trump had this horrible business background pre-2000-whenever, why did she take the money, and why was she going to his wedding? they're both to compromised on this issue.
>> it also goes to the whole idea that there is a permanent political and moneyed class in new york and elsewhere that runs things. that i think actually cuts worse for donald trump. i mean, that's what he is out there running against and representing at the same time. i am a guy who benefited from the system, but i will help you, the little guy, the working class person -- >> because i know how to use it. >> isn't the clinton -- the biggest fear in most of the stuff they're preparing for in the attacks against her are less the opposition research they can do to him. they're going to dredge up every scandal. every allegation against her husband. every conspiracy theory. >> it will mitigate his issue with women. >> it will be nastiness on both sides. everyone talks about his unfavorable levels heading into a general election. >> by the way, hillary clinton has not been slammed by her opponent, the democratic
primary. everybody has been firing at donald trump. she is in the mid to high 50s in unfavorable ratings having a guy who basically is talking policy against her. >> i think he's going to call her incompetent hillary. i think that's going to be the thing. what the democrats are going to do is a page out of the anti-romney playbook which the republicans have not been able to do. workers and ordinary people who have been victims of donald trump's business practices. you're going to see a parade of them on videotape. >> it's going to be like what they did with romney where somebody accuses romney of killing a worker. >> yeah. or -- lost all their money at trump university. workers whose jobs were moved overseas so the trump hats could be made in china. it's going to be a cavalcade of real people on camera to try to undermine his business practices and he's going to call her incompetent hillary. >> we heard it. >> the "washington post" anne
gearan. thank you so much. good luck with that reporting. coming up -- i don't know what i want on the republican side. >> what do you mean? >> the choices are just -- i mean, how would you describe this potpourri of candidates? kasich, cruz and trump. what happened? >> staggering survivors. >> they're the survivors, yeah, out of 17. >> ted cruz, what? really? >> she has a ted cruz issue. >> do you -- it's just a delivery thing. and a little bit more. all right. secretary of state john kerry joins us on the set next hour. donald trump sounding the alarm on wall street predicting a massive recession. we'll get the real pulse of the economy with two people who know it best. aol founder steve case and nbc's steve leishman. "morning joe" is coming right back. who don't have access to basic banking, but that is changing. at temenos, with the microsoft cloud, we can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations
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in a unanimous decision the u.s. supreme court has rejected an effort to change the way state and municipal voting districts are drawn. two texas residents challenged the one person one vote rule which requires a state to count all votes. they argued they should count the voting population, not the total population. >> no. >> why do you say that? >> yeah. >> civil rights groups had argued changing the rule would reduce the voting strength of
the nation's latino population. >> the supreme court agreed. and let us hope that at some point in the future somebody, on some level, can figure out how to stop the destructive gerrymandering that makes the house of representatives an unworkable institution. >> impossible situation. >> an unworkable institution where there cant be compromise, there can't be a coming together of people -- >> we hear it from people across the country. everyone agrees with it. >> what's that? >> sadly, it's unfixable in the short term. the next president with inherit a house that's ungovernable. to go state by state and change how they draw up the districts is really hard. in some ways we exaggerate the effect of the gerrymandering because a lot of it is people are increasingly moving next to people who share their political views.
everyone is getting packed tighter around people who share their views. >> how do you fix -- how would you fix gerrymandering? does it have to be a state by state approach? is there any way -- a constitutional amendment? >> civic leaders in every state have to band together and say, we're not going to do this anymore. that's the only way it's going to happen. you're never going to get a constitutional amendment again in the current climate. technically that would be the only way you could do it. coming up at the top of the hour -- >> no more walking across in honor of wisconsin, you know. we talk about cheese. now we'll talk about a certain kind of cheese. what kind of cheese? swiss cheese. punching big holes in it. i am very proud to be a senator from the great state of vermont, and tonight -- today we're not going to have an argument about whose cheddar cheese is better. i fully concede wisconsin has great cheddar cheese.
>> they're all trying to -- >> whose chedda is betta. >> the co-founder of "realclearpolitics" will help us break down the battle for the state. chris cillizza predicting a tough ballot for republicans if trump is at the top of the ticket. secretary of state john kerry will be here in the studio. "morning joe" is coming right back. what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours.
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the entire country, its eyes are on the state of wisconsin. wisconsin has a national platform, has a national podium. so if you don't want to see donald trump as the nominee, if you don't want to see hillary clinton as the next president, then i ask you to come out tomorrow and vote for me ten times. >> i really believe tomorrow we're going to have a very, very big victory. been here so much, you're starting to get sick of me i hope, right? i hope. i mean, you have guys that are running that are totally taken care of by special interests. they will say "jump, ted, " in some cases they will say jump lyin' ted. nobody lies like this guy. kasich. he's not a player here. he's 1 and 32. it was like his home state. >> press is like you're getting a few sharper elbows now.
why is that? i said, i want to tell you something. i'm not a marshmallow or a pin-cushion. you want to take a whack at me, let's get it on. >> oh, welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday, april 5th. >> andrea just brought some disturbing reporting to the table, mika. >> now i am really officially disturbed about the cheese head moment. let me get who we have here. manager editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. president and ceo of politico, jimmen vandehei. host of "andrea mitchell reports" andrea mitchell. in washington, msnbc editor of the fix at the "washington post," chris cillizza. co-founder and executive editor of "realclearpolitics," tom bevan. >> andrea mitchell, you cover cheese heads. your report to mika is? >> i am the cheese expert. just noticing the cheese head moment. >> yes! >> you have to have covered michael dukakis to understand
head gear in politics. >> let's toss to the moment and let it play out. then the new reporting. take a look. >> look what we found here? >> uh oh. >> a little cheese head. >> all right. now that's awesome. this is a little spicy. you may not like it. >> no, no, no. >> it's the perfect size for you right there. >> will you put it on your head? >> no. my girls will. >> why not? >> there is an iron clad rule of politics. no funny hats. any hat is by definition defined as a funny hat. >> andrea, the new reporting is? >> it's not -- >> that was his daughter trying to get him to put it on. >> who doesn't put a cheese head hat on for their daughter? >> my god, he would lose the primary if he put that on. >> for his daughter? >> for his daughter? >> better to give her a lecture on michael dukakis. >> his 1988 loss. >> if his daughter said, you know, dress up as --
>> by the way, i have a mural on my house with that picture of dukakis. >> it was the best judgment ted cruz has shown to date not putting that thing on. >> i'm not sure. >> he would lose the primary. do you know what someone looks like with a cheese head on? >> he could put it on just for her and say daddy is going to wear this just for you but i have to take it off now because i am in politics and people are mean. >> before he went to the general dynamics plant he had given a major speech on foreign policy that we were all covering. and then he put the helmet on. and that was the end of the campaign. lee atwater looked at that and said, we got him. >> bouncing from 1988 to 2016. let's stick on 2016, april 5th. today wisconsin voters are going to the poll. and donald trump is facing the prospect of possibly being shut out in today's delegate contest, which is winner take all by state and district votes.
>> while a loss for ted cruz would likely be considered a devastating blow to his campaign, the final poll from emerson college shows cruz with a narrow lead over trump, 40-35 percent. a five-point distance. john kasich holding fast at 21%. cruz making retail stops alongside governor scott walker in a cheese shop with trump holding three rallies, hoping to send the senator down for the count, comparing walker's support for cruz with nikki haley's support for marco rubio in south carolina. >> the governor is against me. and i remember with nikki haley when she came out, and it was over, and then i won in a landslide, south carolina. it was over. and i have a feeling the same thing is going to happen here. because walker has not done a great job. he has not done a good job. he is -- by the way, he's been okay. you're average. i hate to say it. you look around your surrounding states. you know what you are?
average. you're not average people, right? so big deal, you got the governor. and the only reason he's doing it, he hates cruz. they all hate cruz. everybody hates cruz. cruz gets up, he says, i'm the only one -- you know with his -- oh, i wish he could talk normally ever once in a while. you ever hear this? i'm the only one that has proven that i can beat donald trump. >> so he agrees with you. he agrees with you on cruz talking. >> his imitation is as bad as yours. >> it was pretty good. >> i am actually the best. >> it's a highly stylized imitation. an impression. >> it's just -- it's true. it's an incredibly -- is it okay to say that it's a cringy presentation? it is. >> whose? >> ted cruz. it is. >> i think that's very sexist of you. >> donald trump is right here. no one likes him. he is getting his endorsements begrudgingly. you think jeb bush is like all
in for ted cruz? sitting by his tv going, come on ted! >> isn't it fascinating that, andrea, you have covered ted cruz's rise in washington, d.c., his fight against all of d.c., seen the contempt that senators in his own party even had for him. he couldn't even find a second person to allow him to keep talking on the floor, something that's just unprecedented. and yet they're so horrified at the prospects of donald trump being nominee that they're all rushing to this guy. >> absolutely. it's just a measure of how worried they are about donald trump that ted cruz is now the alternative as far as they're concerned. >> yeah. >> i mean, it's quite extraordinary because he is roundly disliked by his colleagues when you're talking about, you know -- >> and why? >> not just current colleagues. anybody who has worked with him? >> why? >> his biggest curse is what you're seeing.
there is always something about him that he wants it too much. if you talk to people who were with him in college and coming out of college, he has always had that rap. the rap is a reality for him. it's one of the most remarkable stories. we spend so much time talking about trump. the fact that somebody who is by the metrics more unlikable than trump and could have almost as good a chance coming out of washington. that's the box republicans are in. that's why they'd love to get paul ryan for kasich. >> if it goes to a third ballot or beyond a lot of people supporting cruz today will not support him at the convention. they will maneuver. once you say the guy with the most delegates won't be the nominee, then i think you open the door to say -- >> it's wide open. >> cruz and trump are saying obviously it will be one of the two of us. >> there is no logic to that. >> yeah. >> if the guy with the most delegates doesn't get it, i think it makes it even more
unfair to give it to the guy with the second amount of delegates. >> there is some logic to that. >> or the third amount of delegates because they went into the boxing ring together, they fought, and donald trump won. >> that's where you come to my, you know, paul ryan scenario. people say, if you haven't run, you can't be there. >> right. >> people say, well, people says he didn't want to be speaker. but he checks all the boxes. you know wisconsin. you know paul ryan better than the rest of us, probably. joe, you know him so well. if it gets to multiple ballots, then no mathematics rationalization works. >> except then you get down to the actual human beings. the cruz campaign knowing a lot more about who these beings are and making an appeal to stick with us, as long as it goes. >> depends how close trump gets to 1237. i think wisconsin is important
tonight. >> new york. >> both ted cruz and bernie sanders have to win tonight. if they don't, it's over. i think -- i think in both races. tom, what's it looking like tonight in wisconsin? we've got a spate of polls coming out. and some seem to tell us completely different stories. what are you looking at? >> we've got seven polls that have been taken over a ten-day period that ended on sunday. the balance of those show ted cruz with about a four-point lead. we had a poll drop yesterday afternoon that showed something wildly different than that, trump up ten. but i think most people see that as an outlier. most of the polls at least six and seven during that time period have cruz leading from one to ten points. >> what was the poll with trump up by ten? >> arg? >> what's their track record? >> spotty. i think the -- the marquette poll has sort of the best reputation in the state. only problem with that poll is it was taken the 24th through the 28th, so it's a little bit
behind. if there is late breaking, obviously it wouldn't pick that up. >> any trend lines here for trump or cruz? >> no. i don't think so. i mean, trump is roughly at 35%. cruz is around 39%. it's been fairly consistent in that range. part of it is because the state has been at political war. both parties have been turning out their voters for six years. there are not a lot of voters -- low propensity voters who will perhaps show up at the polls. >> chris cillizza, what does wisconsin mean for donald trump and for ted cruz? >> i'll tell you, if donald trump happens to win wisconsin, it will -- i will turn in my already turned in multiple time analyst card because it makes zero sense that he could even be in range here. after as tom rightly points out, two polls came out last week that showed him down ten.
it's not as though this past week looks anything like what a momentum-building week would look like. remember, it was the charges against corey lewandowski, the 48 hours of the abortion back and forth with chris matthews. if he pulls a win out -- >> chris, chris, this has easily been the worst week of donald trump's campaign, right? just horrific. >> yeah. i mean -- yes, joe, there is no question about that. the thing that i don't know is whether the worst week of his campaign actually hurts him. it would hurt any other candidate. there is no question. what you've mainly seen in wisconsin polling is trump hasn't lost anything, he just hasn't gained. he has stayed sort of in the same place and watched cruz pass him. even if cruz wins, i think i heard andrea say it all comes down to new york. i think it's new york and california, you know. trump -- no one can get the delegates except for trump in my opinion, the 1237. it's almost -- it's impossible for kasich, virtually impossible for cruz. the only way trump gets to 1237
is on the last day, june 7th, in california. he has to have a big day in california. so new york, california -- look, wisconsin, he would love to have it. it would make things easier, but it is not determinativdetermina. cruz needs wisconsin more than trump does. bernie sanders will try to extend his winning streak today after taking five out of the last six contests. the polling heading into today's primary has sanders ahead of hillary clinton by just over 2 1/2 points. the final poll from emerson college, however, has the senator up eight, that's a 14-point swing in his favor since just two weeks ago. meanwhile, the electoral strategies on both sides of the democratic race are coming into sharper focus this morning after a clinton campaign manager robby mook released a memo saying that sanders path to the nomination relies on overturning the will of the voters. mook wrote in a post, quote, the
math being what it is, the sanders campaign has struggled to explain their path to the nomination. their latest strategy involves a combination of trying to flip pledge delegates at state and county conventions while also convincing superdelegates that he deserves their support. that memo comes on the heels of a "new york times" report in which allies and advisors of senator sanders acknowledge early missteps in his campaign. >> andrea, let's talk about wisconsin. wisconsin is every bit as important to bernie sanders as it is to ted cruz. a loss in wisconsin for bernie sanders would be devastating, wouldn't it? >> it would be. he is behind in delegates. he needs the momentum of wisconsin. he needs to show that wisconsin is like michigan. and he needs that momentum going into new york if he's going to overtake her in new york, both of -- both of them claiming new york as their home states. she more recently than he in a way. because he is born and bred there at least. it's going to be the battle of brooklyn coming out of
wisconsin. you can just see from the ferocity of their debate over debates, look what his people put out in criticizing her for not agreeing to the initial debate. they were trading back and forth. who knows what the private negotiations were. but saying that he will now inconvenience all of those new yorkers who wanted to come to his big rally, that he hopes that they don't mind, so that she can fly across country to raise money from big donors. >> massive fund raisers. >> as you said earlier, he can cough and raise money only. >> his numbers were astounding. >> unbelievable. >> mark halperin let's talk about wisconsin on the democratic side. is wisconsin as favorable for bernie sanders, if you look at demographics, you look at the political makeup. is it as favorable to bernie sanders naturally as it is unfavorable to donald trump? >> yeah, although it should be
better for trump than it is, pathe progressive, big college communities. he's been able to focus on a single state. >> if he wins by one or two points, it doesn't give him momentum. >> he needs to win by more than that. sanders has not dealt with the expectations game that well. if there are two pick polls showing you up ten and you win by less than ten you don't get as big of a bolt. he comes into new york with a chance to beat her here and the clinton people have known that for a long time. he doesn't catch up in delegates but he does reset the race. then he'll have beaten here two in a row in two states that she should be able to win. >> it's virtually impossible for him to win the nomination. what he does do is he drains her resources, he drains her energy, he drains her path to securing that. the reason that she has to go and do those big fundraisers that get lampooned on shows and lass lampooned by sanders is
because she needs money. he raises money from the grass roots and is able to do it in an easier way. the longer it goes on it focuses on her vulnerabilities. >> that's a general election vulnerability if it is trump because he is the self-proclaimed self-funder. >> tom bevan how is wisconsin looking for hillary clinton? >> she is trailing. seven polls taken over a ten-day period ending sunday, she is trailing by 2 1/2 points roughly. >> it's close. >> it's pretty close. i think it will be -- could be a long night there on the democratic side. i agree. this is a state that bernie sanders has to win. the clinton folks would love to win it and effectively shut the door and wrap this thing up. i am not sure if that's going to happen. it's madison versus milwaukee. it's the liberal college town versus hillary clinton's ability to turn out african-american voters in the milwaukee county area. >> but this is the first time a primary night that i can think of in the cycle where she is not scheduling a public event. there is no event where we are
going to have hillary clinton coming out tonight. she is where? at a fundraiser we believe in manhattan, private fundraiser, on election night. >> we're about to see one of the most extranarily covered election nights. >> so, you know, the 15,000 -- >> that was for you, chuck todd. >> first 15,000 person rally in seattle gets a voiceover on "morning joe." watch what happens when he within a couple miles of here does an event with 15,000 people. >> we even have chuck todd here this morning. >> tonight she's here raising money? >> we knew she wasn't going to be in wisconsin. you think she would be in new york -- >> how much is she going to raise? >> chris cillizza. it's fascinating for hillary clinton. she has been leaving wisconsin, hasn't spent as much time there
as traditional candidates would, thinking that, you know, that they need to win that state. and yet, this race is a lot closer and certainly over the past week has gotten a lot closer than any of us expected. does this show an underlying strength of hillary clinton that she hasn't had at least to this day? >> well, let's see what the vote is. i would say it shows a strength of expectation setting, right? jim said, it's virtually impossible to see her not being the nominee, and yet here we are saying, whoa, she is an underdog and bernie sanders really needs wisconsin. which is, i think, conventional wisdom right on that score, and i think to her campaign's credit she has spent the last week essentially mostly in new york understanding that that's more important. i think, if she wins here symbolically it matters. the problem for bernie sanders is, let's say he does win by eight or ten points. it's just not nearly enough. he would really need to win wisconsin by 30 points to make up in terms of delegates
anywhere near what he needs. that said, jim makes the right point, which is she is going to be the nominee, but she's not sprinting to the finish line. i think she has lost six of the last seven. she loses tonight, seven of the last eight. how it looks matters, not being able to convince democratic voters, even though everyone like us says she is going to be the nominee. look at her delegate math, blah blah blah. if people won't vote for you, that is concerning. >> there are still moving parts out there. don't put me in there that she is definitely going to be the nominee. i'm not so sure yet. i tell you what, bernie sanders has every reason to keep running and running hard because you never know what is going to happen. >> paradigm shift. hillary is doing "the view" today. >> really? that's interesting! >> we all look at wisconsin as almost sort of the slingshot effect it has for the big prize,
which is new york state. let's say hillary loses tonight. she loses, what, seven out of eight, chris, you say? >> yeah. >> then she comes to her home state and loses her home state where she was elected twice as senator. suddenly it's not like, ah, she is going to win, this is much ado about nothing. >> she loses new york, that is -- >> that's the paradigm shift. >> then pennsylvania, connecticut and other northeastern states. she can't keep losing and just say, i am the nominee. she is still overwhelmingly ahead. she can't keep losing and declare it over. she gets all the way to june where the republicans are going and everybody is worried about an external issue. >> she can declare, though, if bernie sanders loses tonight. >> yes. it's over. chris cillizza and tom bevan, thank you. coming up, secretary of state john kerry is here at the table in a few minutes. first, nbc news political director chuck todd joins the
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you see the dishonesty. you see where i won louisiana, and then i find out that i'm not supposed to get as many delegates as the person that i beat. what kind of stuff is that? and somebody said, well, there is a rule and another rule that -- i don't care about rules, folks. i go out, i campaign. we win. we win. we get the delegates. right? we're winning by almost 300 delegates. so we're doing great. and i think we close it out before the, you know, before the convention. i think we actually close it out before the convention. and -- that's like a prize fighter. they go into unfriendly territory. and the champ. he goes in. they say, what do you think? you may have an unfriendly decision. he says, no, when you knock him out there is no unfriendly decisions. >> the rules are the rules. if you want to win, win at the ballot box. you know, this -- this fevered pipe dream of washington that at the convention they will
parachute in some white knight who will save the washington establishment, it ain't going to happen. if it did, the people would quite rightly revolt. are some folks in washington foolish enough to do that anyway? probably. but they can't do it. if over 80% of the delegates are cruz delegates and trump delegates, under what universe do a thousand trump delegates for a thousand cruz delegates go vote for some uber-washington lobbyist who hasn't been on the ballot? >> nobody is going to have enough delegates to go to the convention and win on the first ballot. cruz is now over 100%. he needs more than 100% to be the nominee. okay. he was playing that on me. now he is caught in his own trick bag. >> we're still trying to figure out exactly what ted cruz was
saying when he was -- >> but it was delivered so dramatical dramatically! >> it was. i was writing it down. fevered pipe dreams. and then junes and moons and circle wheels, dizzy dancing way you feel for every fairy tale comes real. >> swat away the cheese head from your daughter. gosh, darn. >> manhattan is in fact the center of the universe. >> it is. >> the weather is horrible out there. >> you said something funny about the metro system in washington, d.c. nothing is funny about it. what's your observation? >> i have a feeling if this were happening in new york we would be worried about america's infrastructure problems. you know. here it's happening in our nation's capital where we should be worrying about america's infrastructure problems but it's in washington. it's a local story. >> what's happening? you have a subway system there? >> yes, we have a subway system. most new yorkers go, oh, is that
the thing that chuck's down at midnight? they're going to shut down lines at a time for months at a time. >> that's great, chuck. thank you. >> america has an infrastructure problem, again. if this were on the 7 train we would be having a huge debate about it. bring in the secretary of transportation. let's go. >> how often do we complain about our airports? >> laguardia. i got to tell you. i was on the west side highway -- >> here we go! >> traffic. >> we're together on the 8. >> they need to fill in the potholes! >> it's huge. >> that shows there is an infrastructure crisis. >> america's infrastructure problem, fill the potholes on the west side highway, please. by the way, the fdr -- let me tell you. >> the winds are high in central park. >> you have to watch for the trees. >> don't get me started. >> we wonder why donald trump is winning. [ laughter ] >> well, a lot of people are wondering -- >> winning everywhere except in
wisconsin. >> chuck, great story lines going into wisconsin. this is going to be one of the most exciting primary nights. you have four moving parts. you have absolutely no idea what's going to happen with trump, with cruz, with sanders, with clinton. if trump for some reason pulls an upset tonight, katie bar the door, it's over. >> correct. >> if clinton pulls an upset, not even that much of an upset. it's over for bernie. >> bernie is being real -- some people say he's being unrealistic. i argue he's being realistic. he's saying we're going to win here and we better spring board and win in new york. that me setting realistic bars. if he does it, he may be right. it may be an opportunity to reset the race. if he doesn't, he has to figure out an exit strategy. he won't be the nominee, so he'll have to figure out how to do that. i think he's right. this is the last chance he has to reset the race, period.
>> let me ask you about the republican side. what, in the long run, forget what everybody is going to write the morning after and what you'll read on twitter that this is the beginning of the bitter end for donald trump. what does a ted cruz victory in wisconsin mean moving forward? >> margin matters, number one. double digit is a psychological blow to trump in a big way. >> could is slow him down to 1237? does it matter in a big way there? >> to me it doesn't. tonight is not about delegate numbers. there are not enough at stake. maybe if trump gets shut out tonight it's 55%, 56% of what he needs remaining rather than 54%. it's not a big difference. it's a psychological difference. >> the problem is he has new york next. that's a fire wall. >> we have never had two weeks for trump has to stew at losing. when he lost iowa, six days, he could turn it around in new hampshire. >> i don't think trump stews. i think he just changes everything, right? >> that's his version of stewing. blow up the tabletop, right?
reset the chess match. >> he's attached to nothing. i think we keep saying, oh, i'll just change everything. i think he could become someone different. your point, though is, can he sustain -- >> he doesn't sustain. past performance is indicative of future behavior. >> if there were big enough cruz victory, it could have an impact because cruz is better organized than trump state to state. >> we all know people who don't want trump who won't say it. >> we know people who want trump. >> if trump loses by double digits it will empower the people on the fence. if he wins it will empower the other people on the fence. >> we talked about what a cruz win means. what does a trump upset tonight mean? >> i don't know what the cruz case is if trump wins tonight. what is cruz's point. he can't get to 1237 even if he does win. if he loses he is john kasich. right? he is just staying in to make a
point in hopes of an open convention. >> that's the question about kasich. how -- why can't john kasich finish -- maybe he will -- in second place in a neighboring state? wisconsin should be a great state for john kasich. >> he's going to have to explain the third place finish no matter what, you know, unless -- >> he could finish third and get more delegates than trump. >> depending on the way that works. kasich will do well in the madison congressional district. >> i had a good friend last night who you think would not be a trump person. sort of another tortured republican. he was saying, look, you know, everyone hates cruz. cruz is just awful. and at least trump has a plan. he has a vision. i said, yeah, how about getting rid of the debt in, you know, true terms. you know. $19 trillion. at least he's talking about it, talking about attacking it.
there are those republicans out there, this is a really experienced business guy, a really smart guy. >> chapter 11 to pay off debts are good ideas. i'm sorry. how are we going to do that? >> andrea, that is -- you're just telling a part of the story that we've been talking about, nicolle with her parents and me with my brother and all of his friends. he is a hospital consultant. he goes across the country. he talks to significant business leaders and ceos of hospitals. he is sostarted telling me six, months ago at lunch. quietly, who are you voting for? i'm sick and tired of trump -- we sit here and try to figure out what is it. is it his immigration policy? is it his racist overtones it? >> it's none of the above. >> it's -- for so many people -- and by the way, it's not just drug addicts in appalachia. >> no. i was talking to a room full of
ceos for learn your value. i love to gauge the room. how many trump supporters. six people raised their hand and two pulled it down again. there were the few others who didn't raise their hand but were. >> put them up later. >> the super pac ad with the woman who says, you know, it's not very popular. it's a little ham-handed. they could have done it better. if i am the trump campaign that's the message i would be touting. >> security, security, security. >> you know what, it's not cool, it's not popular but i'll tell you why i am for it. >> people talk about his gaffes as though the things he said in the media there were the story. it's the things he said that made his supporters embarrassed in their communities and the schools. the supporters feeling that they had to wince in acknowledging that he is still their guy. that was the damage he did to himself. not an editorial board
indictment of his comments. >> i do think the last two weeks have been the first time -- >> hard on the supporters. >> hard-core trump supporters have said, come on. >> anne colter, who has been there through thick and thin with trump, said something like our candidate is mental sometimes, defending him is hard. >> did she say "sometimes"? >> and she has been a through thick and thin supporter. >> chuck todd, thank you. so sorry about those problems in your town. >> it's a small town, yeah. >> it's a side bar story. maybe the metro section. >> you go to san francisco. they have those trollies. that's what it's like. >> do they have cable cars there? that's so cute, for tourists. >> the 8th street debacle. >> just so you know, we're your lead-in twice today. you are hosting the 9:00 a.m.
hour. >> 3:00 to 5:00. bottom line is you can be late for both shows because we're not going to get to you in time. have a cup of coffee. >> all right. still ahead this morning -- >> when they launch ballistic missiles with slogans calling for the destruction of israel, that makes businesses nervous. >> perhaps a bit of an understatement when it comes to iran's provocations. secretary of state john kerry is standing by. he joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." sure, we cor put them stacked on a rack.s. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee. yeah, we're strong when it comes to tires.
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all right. up next, secretary of state john kerry. >> now, that's a city right there. >> that is a beautiful city. >> chuck todd should move there. >> he says the chaos of the 2016 election is an embarrassment. the former presidential candidate turned diplomat joins the table next on "morning joe." is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world?
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kerry, very good to have you on board this morning. >> happy to be here. >> thank you. >> most important question. how are the red sox going to do this year? >> i hope they're going to do really well. we have price on board. better team, different team. they're charged. we'll see what happens. >> right. >> but i think everybody is still realieling from the buzze shot last night. >> my gosh. >> incredible. >> did you stay up for it? >> i watched it. won't tell you where, but i watched it. >> the man doesn't sleep. >> unbelievable. why don't we start with an op-ed. >> the united arab emirates writes. saturday marked one year since the framework agreement for the joint comprehensive plan of action, the nuclear deal with iran was announced. at the time president obama said this agreement would make the world safer. and perhaps it has. but only in the short term. and only when it comes to iran's nuclear weapons proliferation.
sadly, behind all the talk of change the iran we have long known, hostile, expansionist, violent, is alive and well and as dangerous as ever. >> what's your response. >> it's not as dangerous as ever because it will not have a nuclear weapon so it cannot by definition be as dangerous as ever. the irgc hadd an expectation thy were going to be able to go forward with all their efforts, which are provocative but do so under the cover of a nuclear umbrella. they can't do it now. it's not for the short term. there is 25 years of uranium tracking. >> to read it, to go along with the deal, the president -- the president seemed to acknowledge that they aren't at least living up right now to the spirit of the deal. do you have faith and confidence that they will stick to the key terms of this deal for the next 20 years? >> i have faith and confidence that we will know exactly what
they're doing during that period of time. and if they decide to try to cheat, we will know it, and there are plenty of options available to us. that i have complete faith and confidence in. and that's why 42 united states senators joined under very difficult circumstances to support this. but, i agree with the ambassador, who is a good friend. i listen to him and i listen to the emiraties. the president referred to this. iran needs to make some clear decisions about the role it intends to play in the region and in the world. if you have a nuclear agreement and you've gone to these great lengths, joe, why not stop or try at least to be part of a peace process with respect to yemen. why not help more to try to end the conflict in syria. and it's the lack of that effort and, frankly, the weapons that have been intercepted in the recent months -- we just had an interception last week by the
united states navy. the australian navy had an interception the month before that and the month before that. that is, by everybody's standard, unacceptable behavior. and what it's going to do is create an uncertainty in business judgments about whether or not it's going to be safe to invest. so iran is complaining to us, hey, we're not getting all the benefits we saw. well, the simple answer is, behave differently. >> right. >> engage in the world differently. >> do you think they will? >> i am not, you know, in the prognostication about what their behavior is going to be. i am in the business of trying to make certain that we can deal with whatever it is. >> are you at least surprised? you worked so hard at getting this deal. are you at least surprised by the provocations that have -- that have come out of iran since you struck that deal? >> joe, i am not. i'll tell you why. everybody has seen this fight play out publicly.
i think public comments were recently made about how there was a need to engage in dialogue and not in missile manufacturing process. he was rebuked by the supreme leader who said, no it's missiles, not dialogue. there is a fight there. there is still an unsettled election process that goes on through this month. so i honestly think that what you are seeing is part of the tension. there were people in iran who opposed the iran agreement with the same ferocity that there were people here who opposed it. and they still do. >> just wondering andrea, i'll toss it to you, but are the checks in place enough of an inspiration to get them to behave? that i think remains to be seen. >> one of the questions is why, then, is the u.s. treasury or administration sanctioning the idea of helping iran get access to dollars or to get more investment? i mean, they're clearly complaining that they're not
seeing the benefits. so shadow banking, offshore banking -- >> we're working very hard to do what is fair. >> have they proved that they deserve that? >> they have in terms of the nuclear agreement, absolutely. iran deserves the benefits of the agreement they truck. president obama has said it. i said is. secretary lu has said it. we have in fact tried to work to make sure that the banks that are supposed to be doing legitimate business with respect to the transactions that are okay after the agreement, that they're operating. so we -- you know, it's fair for iran to get what it deserves because it kept its part of the bargain to date with respect to the nuclear agreement. >> but mr. secretary -- >> you just said earlier, though, and the president said this also, by not living up to the spirit of the agreement, they're sending the wrong signal to the world community and sending the wrong signal to businesses. should they not first take care of the problem that both you and the president diagnosed and then
you all start helping them with -- financially? >> joe, we are under an obligation to see -- if we said we would lift a sanction, we're under an obligation to lift the sanction and make sure that, in fact, people are performing the way they're supposed to. that's different from proactively responding in other ways. and i agree with you. we just had a meeting of russia, china, france, germany, the united states, britain, at the table -- at the nuclear summit. and one of the points of discussion was everybody should be encouraging iran not to continue its missile activities, not to continue to ship arms, because that will upset and royal the marketplace. >> what about what donald trump says, this is the worst deal in history, you are the worst negotiator, that he would do it differently. i mean, what about the way this is being debated. >> ride bikes. >> with donald trump on nukes in general.
take your pick. >> i think, andrea, i will resist the temptation. >> what? >> i'm going to resist. >> what discipline. >> let's talk about climate change. you're here to give a big speech on that. who can you persuade in america? the country is so divided on this issue. so many people who don't see this as you do as a big threat that the u.s. needs to lead on. who do you persuade and how do you persuade them? >> we need to persuade the reluctant performers within industry. and there are fewer and fewer of them, may i say, mark. there is a tremendous transformation taking place. now solar is becoming competitive with fossil fuel. you have wind power. a huge amount of distribution taking place. countries -- 186 countries came together to say we are going to move in a different direction. that's a signal to the marketplace, which is profound, and you're seeing the marketplace respond.
there will be somewhere upwards of $50 trillion invested over the next 30, 40, 50, 60 years in alternative, renewable energy. there is an energy transformation that is going to take place, and the rewards, the benefits, are going to go to the swift, the people who people who get there faster. >> who are the holdouts? >> well, the holdouts are obviously coal and some of your fossil fuel people. you have people politically -- there isn't one candidate in the republican party who has publicly taken a position to do something about climate change. not one. now, when you look at the country as a whole, united states of america, more than 65%, 68% or so of the american people believe climate change is happening, believe human beings are partly responsible and believe we ought to be doing something serious about it and there's a new report just came out yesterday, it's in today's paper from the apa, saying that the increase of sickness, of
deaths as a result of -- as a result of air pollution and cancer and heat and other things is going to have profound cost impact and life impact on people on a global basis. so i think the average person understands what's happening. you look at the quality of the storms, the number of storms, the damages. we spent something like $350 billion in the united states last year just to fix up the damage from storms. imagine what would happen if you took a tiny percentage of that and put it into renewable alternative energy and kicked the market into gear. and by the way, millions of jobs to be created. this would be the biggest market on the planet. >> so let's wrap it up by talking about isis and progress that we're making against isis. first of all, are with he at war with isis and if we are at war with isis are we making the type of progress we need to make after brussels?
>> we have definitively at war with isis. we are making real progress. i think people want to be careful not to herald something in a difficult type of war, but the fact that isis, daesh, has lost territory, they have gained no territory since last may, they have been driven out of ramadi, they have been driven out of shadeda, people thought that was going to take six weeks, it took six days. we are learning that they've cut their pay to their fighters, we've taken out major top level, mid-level -- >> so we're doing well on the battlefield. >> there's still a threat. >> are you working with our european allies to get them more resolved and a bit more strengthened in fighting the terror threat on the continent there? >> absolutely. in fact, prior to the brussels attacks taking place we already had several meetings scheduled
for this month with our -- our foreign fighter surge support team going over there, with the fbi there, with other players meeting in order to try to help them strengthen their ability to fight back. we have been deeply engaged with our european partners, they are engaged and, you know, i'm -- i mean, i've said from the beginning this is a tough fight, it's a different kind of fight, but we are going to destroy daesh, and we are. and we're seeing now -- just yesterday i read about 15 daesh operatives who were executed by daesh themselves. why? because they probably were trying to get out. and we're seeing more and more people who are publicly, joe, coming out and testifying to how they thought they were killing infidels and they know they're killing muslims and they don't like it. so i think daesh's narrative is beginning to take a hit. we have learned we have a new
global center for communications, we're working with the saudis, with the malaysians, with people around the world. it's not our voices that are going to make the difference it's the voices of islam. they have to reclaim their own religion and that's what we're working on. >> while you're doing this important work, challenging work i'm sure watching the selection process must be something for you. >> you have me going again. look, i'm a recovering politician and recovery takes a while. >> yeah. >> your juices get flowing. it's an election and, you know, joe biden and i have talked about it. it's the first time in a long time that both of us are not engaged in the middle of it. >> yeah. wow. >> so, yeah -- but on the other hand i'm confident in the american people and they will choose wisely and i feel as if this current craziness, which is embarrassing our country abroad -- i cannot tell you -- every meeting i have anywhere people say, what is happening in the united states? what are you doing to
yourselves? >> secretary of state john kerry, always good to have you on, an honor. >> my pleasure. continued coverage of today's critical wisconsin primary is ahead on "morning joe." that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. up next, democrats finally agree on a debate data head of a new york primary but not before their campaigns take one last
shot at each other. we will read their statements that are dripping for sarcasm and we'll go live to milwaukee where the wisconsin polls will open in just a few minutes. we're back in just a moment. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest standard of care available anywhere. and guests can come to see them simply being their majestic selves. inspiring the next generation of people to love them as you do.
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sanjay's a team player and uh... look what we found here. hey. >> a little cheese head. >> now, that's awesome. this is a little spicy so you may not like it. >> no. no. no. >> it's the perfect size for you right there. >> do you put the cheese on your head? >> no. my girls will. >> why not? >> there is an ironclad rule of politics which is no funny hats and any hat by definition is defined as a funny hat. michael dukakis described that properly when he put on a helmet and got in a tank. >> don't you think the people of wisconsin want to see you in a cheese head. >> i think the people of wisconsin wear their cheese heads so powerfully that i would
not presume to intrude in the elegance with which the people of wisconsin wear those hats. >> it's shakespearian. >> i just don't know what i want to happen there. >> it's shakespearian. >> it's just all so awful. >> this is awful. >> what's going on in your state? >> who do you want? nope, right? >> someone who has three cheese heads in his tv room downstairs i wouldn't put one on my head, either. you kind of look like a dope. >> it's a chunk of cheese, theres no way to do it. >> so you have them but you never wear them. >> i have them signed, from different packers. >> have you ever worn one at a game? i have never worn one at a game. >> how is ted cruz going to do in your home state? >> it looks like he will win and to me it resets the race. >> it's all so painful to watch them in their final moments trying to close it and it's just -- ted cruz and his delivery, i'm sorry, i can't stand it. you guys all can't stand it. i'm sorry. >> break into a to be or not to
be when talking about a cheese head. >> it's all so unbelievably disingenuous. right? >> that's some rough talk. >> about the cheese head? >> like what is all this? it's not true, right? come on, nicolle. do you watch like this? this is how nicolle watches ted cruz. >> that's a cold medicine. >> no, you who have run campaigns who knows it's just so painful. >> he was a staffer and when staffers become candidates they're self-conscious about performance. that's always the case. >> what do you think, nicolle? you have another theory. >> is it me? am i being mean. if i knew it was hillary clinton everyone would say it's sexist. so early for that. >> i think ted cruz is only appealing in the context of the choices that remain and so i think -- >> that would be a great campaign ad. >> wow. come on. >> here we are. >> mika is saying -- >> is that how he talks at the
family dinner table? >> yes. i believe it is. >> you heard him read a child's fairy tale. i don't know how those kids sleep. >> let's do the rest of the show that way. >> i'd have to say it's like watching a slow motion car wreck. good morning, it's april 5th. it's true, i'm saying what you're all thinking. his delivery it makes your skin crawl. >> she said it, you said it, but you gist said -- >> fingernails on a chalkboard. >> we have mark halperin with us to help us kind of get off of -- out of this ditch. also former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace and we have the president and ceo of "politico," wisconsin's own jim vandehei. mika, these races are crazy, you look at all the polls and we see some polls that show bernie ahead and then we've seen some polls yesterday that showed
hillary catching up. >> no. >> it looked like she was going to catch up and win and then there's an emerson poll out that shows bernie sfloom ago ahead. on the republican side it looks like cruz has pa 4, 5 point lead, there's another poll that came out i think that showed trump ahead or catching up. >> i don't really get it. >> nobody knows. nobody knows but mark halperin. that's the way i like it. >> let the voters decide. >> let the voters -- wait. do you want to do ted cruz? >> please. yes, ted. >> we live in a constitutional republic and the glory of that is -- >> that the voters decide. >> that the pundits and the politicians and the pollsters can all get around and they can express what they want in their new york values, but at the end of the day it's -- >> you've got to close it. >> you've got to close it. >> how do we close it? >> with something -- >> at the end of the day -- >> you've got to get a little
nor ned flanders in there. >> and that texas twang. it's william shakespeare meets i don't know who what. >> he may be your party's nominee, by the way. >> well, that's going to be fantastic. >> and it will be the people and not the -- >> elite establishment. >> it will be the people and not the elite establishment. >> you can't be that annoying. i can't believe, but -- >> and the washington cartel. >> you don't like the washington cartel? >> i don't do it. >> get gripped with emotion at the end. it has to be false emotion. >> we have to get back to politics, the krathsz debate over debate has officially come to an end, i think. hillary clinton and bernie sanders will face off in brooklyn on april 14th, just five days before the new york primary, but the sniping between the two campaigns didn't stop, even after the negotiations were finished. the sanders campaign released a
statement that reads in part, quote, fortunately we were able to move major new york city rally scheduled for april 14th to the night before. we hope the debate will be worth the inconvenience for thousands of new yorkers who were planning to attend our rally on thursday, but will have to change their schedules to accommodate secretary clinton's jam packed high dollar coast to coast schedule of fundraisers all over the country. that's true on the 12th she has one out in l.a. at george clooney's house or something. a clinton campaign official issued this statement saying, quote, we had thought the sanders campaign would have accepted our offer for a brooklyn gate on april 15th in new york in a new york minute but it ended up taking a few extra days for them to agree. we are glad they did. >> all right. while that sniffling is going on on both sides -- >> i'm glad they're debating. >> new republican polls despite a difficult week on the campaign trail donald trump is holding steady at least nationally. the latest nbc news survey
tracking poll shows trump relatively unchanged since last week, he's down 3 points and my god if you are a politician and you had the week that donald trump had last week and you didn't completely flame out, if you didn't see that plane going into like the ground you will probably take minus 3. >> ted cruz, the guy i just -- i can't imitate. >> no. >> 28%, john kasich holding steady at 18%. >> i think i can, which is scary. so today wisconsin voters go to the polls, donald trump is the prospect of being shut out in the contest which is winner take all by state and district votes while a loss for ted cruz would likely be considered a devastating blow to his campaign the final poll from emerson college shows cruz with a narrow lead over trump 40 to 35, 5 point difference that is barely above the margin of error, john kasich holding fast at 21%.
cruz and trump were campaigning hard yesterday making retail stops alongside governor scott walker in a cheese shop with trump holding three rallies hoping to send the senator down for the count comparing walker's support for cruz with nikki haley's support for marco rubio in south carolina. >> i remember with nikki haley when she came out and it was over and then i won in a landslide. south carolina, it was over, and i have a feeling the same thing is going to happen here because walker has not done a great job. he has not done a good job. and by the way he's been okay. you're average. i hate to say it. you look around your surrounding states, do you know what you are, average. you're not average people, right? so big deal, you got the governor. and the only reason he's doing it, he hates cruz. they all hate cruz, everybody hates cruz. cruz gets up he says, i'm the only one -- you know with his --
oh, i wish he could just talk normally every once in awhile. did you ever hear this? i'm not only one that has proven that i can beat donald trump. >> donald trump recently questioned whether your governor can ride a harley. i would encourage donald, come on down. i think scott would be happy to give donald a ride, maybe give him a little side cart that he could hold on to. you're right, it would mess up his hair. actually, i don't know that it would. it might be that 100 miles an hour that might not move. >> okay. you were laughing. you were laughing at trump a couple of times. >> i was laughing at trump a couple of times. yeah. if you're not laughing you're crying at this point, right? >> do you know how many primaries trump has lost so far.
>> how many? >> three. texas and ohio, two home states, oklahoma basically another home state. >> and the rest are caucuses. >> the rest are caucuses. if he loses tonight it's his first kind of neutral state primary loss. >> primary that he has lost. >> in an open primary. >> what are you thinking? what are you saying? do you think it might be closer than we're all saying or -- >> everything i know suggests not, that cruz will win. and trump could get anywhere from 0 to 6 delegates. if he gets only six arguably, again, his worst night since iowa. >> does it reset the campaign? i keep hearing people saying it's going to reset the campaign. >> neither cruz more kasich has proven that they can challenge trump in the northeast. assuming cruz wins tonight that's what the republican race is about, can either of them give trump a challenge in the northeast. it's not there today and the request he is does wisconsin produce that dynamic. i'm not sure it does. >> the other problem with trump
running against the establishment when he's bark walker, in the state people like walker, his favorable rating is 80% among republicans, they like paul ryan, to them that is the republican establishment. there's going to be a much bigger turnout in 20, 30 years in wisconsin. so the question is so much of the coverage is out of milwaukee and that's just a different type of republican than you will find once you go north of milwaukee. if the turnout is super high above milwaukee there is a chance for trump. >> nicolle, i thought he made a mistake and said it on the air that he was attacking lindsey graham in south carolina, going why do you attack a guy who is really popular among some -- some republicans there and i said the same thing when he started attacking nikki haley. nikki haley was very popular there as well. and it seems like those endorsements only fed on his outsider status. >> i think it was a different moment in the candidacy, though. i think the difference with wisconsin is you have a very active grass roots, you have a
very active talk radio culture, you have an educated and active political electorate because of the recall. you have almost a statewide political press corps and a very active -- you might be afforded in the bush years -- i mean, they do not -- this isn't a national eyesed election by and large, wrong wisconsin hits that mold. they have their own media markets and own conversation. this is a rare case where trump misread the state political climate a little bit. going to ryan's hometown and trashing him, it doesn't hurt him but i don't think it helped him. i don't think he is helped. >> it's just unbelievable. you go to janeville, wisconsin, i mean, if i were campaigning i'd say where is the statute to paul ryan i'd like to lay some flowers there in honor. >> at least not kick him in the face. i mean, like not flowers, but -- >> no. no. no. you know, i can't predict -- it is so great to be here in
wisconsin. paul ryan, what an extraordinary story. this is a guy that wins in a -- we need more people like paul ryan. donald trump goes in and kicks him. and he kicks nikki haley. nikki haley you go, no, that's not -- that's just not a really smart thing to do and he wins. i'm not saying he is going to win tonight but i do think it would be i think -- let's see if it works. >> information flowing against trump in wisconsin has been bad and continues to be bad, he is not ahead in the polls, he was in south carolina. the polls drive so much of the coverage. >> yeah. >> you know, all the flaps from last week, the fact that cruz has got these endorsements, he's bringing in surrogates and the talk radio thing, day in and day out trump is not winning news cycles. >> are you surprised as badly as trump has performed over the past couple weeks, it has been horrific, that he's only 5 points down in these national polls. are you spiesed by that. >> no, because if you go back to the "saturday night live" i can't believe i'm losing to
these guys. cruz and kasich don't bring a ton to this. they have not established huge national following and the national polls show that. trump can slump and still do pretty well in this field. >> there is also the fact if you think about the conversation we had on the show before the primaries in the south, he's got a floor and ceiling. he has not gone below the floor. he has been where he has been in wisconsin in the 30% range. >> here is what eugene robinson writes, don't count drumpd donald trump out just yet. donald trump had a terrible, horrible, atrocious week but imagine the worst-case scenario for him, he wins none of wisconsin's 42 convention delegates and two states primary while his nearest rival senator ted cruz wins them all. even with that improbable result trump would have a huge lead over cruz in the delegate race 736 to 505, a wisconsin shutout would make it more difficult for trump to reach the magic number of 1,237 but it would remain
nearly impossible for cruz to get there. so reports of trump's demise are surely premature. once again i'm afraid they may be largely the product of wishful thinking. >> that's all we really had in reporting over the past month or two when it comes to analyzing this race. >> or nine. >> i'd say over the last year, i'm sorry, i can't believe i said a month or two, it's been nine months of wishful reporting. so it's really hard to read these people have been wrong every single month talking about trump's eminent demise. >> the most dramatic thing that could happen is that it becomes more difficult for him to get to 1,237. >> yeah. >> there is no scenario where anyone else is suddenly able to. >> mark. >> again, wisconsin that's all these factors making it relatively bad for trump, the northeast his next up, a lot of big states including new york with a lot of delegates and no one has shown that either cruz or kasich can really challenge him. trump may romp in the northeast and then he's back on track to a majority. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we will go live to milwaukee
where the polls are now open and more from our primary day political panel on what both front runners need to do to shore up their leads. plus what about that recession that donald trump is predicting? >> it's going to be a big one. >> is he looking at the same numbers the economist right side? that's ahead on "morning joe." why do some cash back cards keep throwing obstacles at you?
bernie sanders will try to extend his winning streak today in wisconsin after taking five of the last six contests. the real clear politics polling average heading into today's primary has sanders ahead of hillary clinton by just over 2.5 points. it's close. the final poll from emerson college, however, has the senator up 8. that's a 14-point swing in his favor since just two weeks ago.
sanders held several events across wisconsin yesterday from janesville to green bay to milwaukee. look at those crowds. his final primary eve rally took place literally around the corner from donald trump. meanwhile, clinton campaigned in new york alongside governor andrew cuomo and touted his efforts as that state passed an increase in the minimum wage. >> feelings have to be matched with politics. he had to put together the votes. >> that's right. >> now, some people get bored by that kind of talk. don't bother me with the details. let's just make it sound good, let's just feel good. well, i think we would still be sounding and feeling good if it hadn't been for the hard work and the incredible commitment that the governor made to this
issue. >> if there's a large voter turnout we will win here. if we win here we're going to have a bounce going into new york state where i think we can win. if we win in new york state, between you and me, i don't want to get hillary clinton more nervous than she already is. she's already under a lot of pressure. so don't tell her this. but i think we win here, we win in new york state we are on our way to the white house. thank you all very much. >> wow. and she does go -- i guess it doesn't matter if she'll win. >> what's that? >> she goes across country and raises money for $300,000 a plate. the difference between those two candidates is -- >> it's pretty stark. >> pretty stark and pretty clear to a message that is a winning message, but ultimately i guess the coronation will happen. >> and, jim, she's kicking back
into 2008 knocking obama mode which is, oh, sure he can speak and sure he's exciting and sure you love him and sure you're swept up on why you are sfeet by him and sure he makes you believe again that americans can be a remarkable place to live in and sure he makes you believe in democratic values are more than just empty plat tuds that we say every four years to get your vote but i'm going to get more votes. it's just not an inspiring message and she's back that -- what we just showed was sort of 2008, almost -- >> the campaign goes longer than it probably needed to go but someone like sanders, wisconsin is a great state for him. i mean, it's such an eclectic state, you have a very liberal senator and ron johnson on the other side, russ fine gold who can replace ron johnson. it's a perfect place for him, big college populations that like the sanders message. for her there is the feeling in the campaign that i can't believe we're losing to this crazy old man and they keep underestimating his capacity to
outperform what he's going to do in niece states. >> does she have to do these fundraisers in the middle of a heated primary. >> yes, she does. >> why? it looks terrible. >> she can't cough and raise a million dollars like bernie sanders. she actually has to do what pedestrian -- >> old fashioned. >> -- politicians have done for hundreds of years. >> who is giving her all this money? >> really rich people. >> on this april 12th thing who is paying $300,000? who are they? >> if you look at people that are liefg in the car, march fundraising bernie sanders, $44 million. doesn't hold aer single fundraiser event, hillary clinton $29.5 million. it is extraordinary. big wheels keep on rolling. >> what's incredible sanders and trump in many ways have defied political gravity. he lost the nomination effectively in march and yet he badly outraised her. that's not the way politics works. normally you do well in the ballot box, people give you money and think you have
momentum. outraising her by $15 million. do you know how many events she has to do to raise $15 million. >> the democrats didn't have a super delegate system would they be heading toward a contested convention in the same way? >> she is ahead in pledged delegates. >> if you take away the super delegates. if they were more proportional, would their system be upended the way ours is. >> if you completely eliminated the super delegates it would be hard for him to catch up. the only way for him to be the nominee is for him to get closer in pledged delegate and flip the super delegates and say to the people from wisconsin you can't vote against your state. >> kasich needed to come in second, sanders, he's got to win tonight, right? >> if he doesn't win tonight they will win the process they're waiting to start which is to have some of their surrogates like clair mccass skill and others say he should get out of the race, bill clinton will probably start saying it.
tonight is a manufacture u. pure must win for him. and ted divine said that on the record he has to win tonight but also has to win big. if he wins narrowly the clintons will say he got x delegates, she got y delegates. coming up kristen welker will join the table and hallie jackson live from the campaign trail in wisconsin where the polls are now open. plus. >> what i said is we're going to go into a massive recession, but i also say if i'm president that's not going to happen. because i'm going to straighten things out before it happens. it's going to be -- >> donald trump expands on his prediction that the u.s. is headed for another massive recession. we'll crunch the numbers with aol founder steve casen and cnbc's steve liesman. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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welcome back to "morning joe." bloomberg politics mark halperin still with us and joining the table we have the news and finance anchor at yahoo bianna golodryga and nbc's white house cress month end kristen welker who has been covering the clinton campaign. and in milwaukee nbc news correspondent hallie jackson who has been following the cruz campaign. hallie, what are some of the headlines you're looking at today going into the primary? cruz has the edge? >> yeah, cruz has the edge. there are three story lines as we head into this badger state battle ground. number one, you have to look at how ted cruz will do. how big will his victory be. if you look at where polling is
he's leading by double digits, looking for not just a lot of delegates out of this state but more importantly momentum for his campaign, a campaign aid acknowledging that is key for ted cruz, he has to be able to show that he can win in an open primary state and pick up more moderate voters like what you see in wisconsin. i had a chance to ask the senator about this yesterday, even if he does win here he could potentially be blown out in delegate count when it moves into the northeast when this race heads to places like indiana, pennsylvania, new york. here is what he had to say. >> even if you win wisconsin donald trump can make up that delegate count in the northeast. how do you plan to stop him there? >> we're going to beat him. we're going to beat him to 1,237 delegates even before the c convention or at cleveland. >> reporter: that's a pretty clear strategy, pretty obvious but that brings us to the second story line which is the never trump movement needing a win here in wisconsin. you've seen them working, putting up ads, you have outside strategists, outside groups
trying to slow trump's momentum and coalescing a little bit behind ted cruz which is what you are' seeing here with scott walker's support. can they stop him here and if they do how does that carry into the next couple weeks. and finally the role of john kasich, could he be a spoiler, where could he win, could he help give trump maybe a delegate shutout if he ends up doing well in madison. >> hallie, stay with us as we break out the discussion to the table. you're covering the clinton campaign, another big race tonight in wisconsin and that one looks close. she's going to be fundraising here, though. >> that's right. it seems like the clinton campaign is bracing for a loss in wisconsin. you heard hallie talk about the word margins, i think that's going to be significant tonight as well for the democrats. senator sanders might eek out a win in wisconsin, that would give him a few delegates, more importantly it would give him momentum heading into a larger state like new york, but if he wins by double digits that's a different story. it gives him more momentum and
gives him more delegates and i think that's when the clinton campaign starts to get a little more nervous. the reason why she is here, she is focused on new york, she cannot lose new york, she still has a double digit lead here but if you look at the polls senator sanders has actually been watching up to her and remember he was born in brooklyn so he thinks he has a real case to make shear. and when you think about senator sanders staying power think about this, last month he outraised her -- >> it's unbelievable. >> -- by $15 million? in small donations >> that's why she's fundraising out of necessity. >> based on what we've seen what she's done and president clinton has done what's their new york strategy to counter act bernie sanders coming in with really big rallies? >> first, they are going back to their roots, her first event in harlem, trying to rally african-american voters, the democratic base. secondly i think you will hear her talk about her record as senator, the work that she did
here particularly in the wake of september 11th. she wants to remind the people of new york of what she did here and her deep roots that she has here essentially. >> hallie, let me ask you about ted cruz and his supporters. specifically some of the mainstream supporters from the republican party who have sort of dee grugingly supported him. we know we've seen carly fiorina out on the trail with him. are we going to see more step up and actually campaign with him in the coming weeks? >> reporter: yeah, that's the hope, right, for ted cruz because what you've seen over the last month -- remember, it was almost exactly a month ago that mitt romney came out and gave that big never trump speech out in utah, but even then romney was a tepid endorsement of cruz, he said i'm going to vote for him but just to get to an open convention. the fact that governor scott walker is out with ted cruz is significant. he's really popular among republicans here, his approval is something like 80% and walker is not just throwing his name behind cruz he's throwing his full support. we were at a cheese shop yet and
walker was out there, hanging out with heidi cruz, cruz's daughters and the family and trying to be an active presence. carly fiorina, too, has been a key surrogate not just in wisconsin but places like north dakota where cruz is trying to lock down delegates, talking about the 18 delegates he picked up in north dakota. that said of course those delegates could change their minds between now and july but fiorina has been a major presence. cruz is talking about the fact that five of his former rivals have come back and endorsed him and are supporting him hoping to add to that count moving forward and picking up endorsements from congressional colleagues and so on trying to prove that he can be the one to coalesce the republican party who doesn't support donald trump. that said john kasich still playing that role of spoiler. >> and they don't really like him, there's that. >> reporter: they aren't big fans. >> he is sort of an outsider in washington. >> to that point, you're right, they don't really like him but for the first time ted cruz actually has support among some of these establishment republicans. i've been talking to
republicans -- >> like? >> like mitt romney. >> is mitt romney going to go campaign for him and actually stand next to him? >> that's a good point. >> is jeb bush going to campaign for him? >> what's interesting is these are people who have actively, you know, been sort of against him. so to have them not blocking him for the first time. >> they didn't stand him. >> is a major shift. >> i'm not 100% sure cruz wants them here. >> this is the most dysfunctional -- i don't even know what to call it. there is not a word i can say on tv. it's a cluster. all right. nbc's hallie jackson thank you very much, nbc's kristen welker thank you as well. donald trump says he is the only candidate to prevent what he predicts will be a massive recession but who do voters must more on the economy, him or hillary clinton? we will have that answer and much more on this topic next on "morning joe." could have stacked these tires. or put them on a rack. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee.
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the people in this audience have not had a pay increase effectively. you haven't had a pay increase. and then people wonder why do i get 21,000 people to come and see me in orlando, why do i get 35,000 in mobile, alabama. and we have a packed airplane hangar. why? the reason is we're sick and tired of what's going on. >> that was donald trump talking economics yesterday in superior, wisconsin. with us to talk economics on "morning joe" steve liesman, also the co-founder of aol and chairman of the case foundation and revolution, steve case. he is out with a new book "the third wave, an entrepreneur's vision of the future". >> perfect. >> so first of all why don't we begin by talking about this coming recession. >> massive recession. and who is better on the economy? >> i've bought many cases of tuna and i have gold bars and i'm ready to hunker down. there is no evidence of a recession coming.
we had a bit of a slow down in the first quarter, things look like they picked up, there is a lot of weakness overseas. the u.s. contrary to what you might hear from some of the candidates has actually been a bastion of strength. a lot of the things donald trump is talking about he's not wrong, we have had massive problems in terms of getting income and wage growth to the middle class here, there is that frustration out there, but in terms of a recession, donald trump would kind of be alone -- >> also worldwide, though, obviously a pretty massive global slow down kpargt with china, right? >> china slowdown, that was a place where even american companies were getting their marginal growth from. europe has slowed down, coming back a little bit more strength now, but really what's been happening is the u.s. was first out of the box in terms of some of the stimulus that happened from monetary policy, fiscal policy standpoint, it got a jump start, europe came along real late, china is just now getting into the fold here. you have weakness in most of america's major trading partners.
the idea that we're doing 2% economic growth in the us u.s. to some is better than you might expect given what's going on globally. >> steve, we're talking about economies changing, we're talking about obviously -- a lot of people grappling with the changes that have happened over the past 30, 40 years, just new waves of technology that makes america better in some ways but puts more americans out of work. you say we're actually about to reach a third wave that's going to require internet companies to reshape their relationship with consumers. >> yeah, the first wave really was just going the internet and pay irns with a of the internet. the second wave has been building app services, facebook, twitter, and the third wave is going to integrate the internet throughout all aspects of our lives and revolution it niez health and learning and food. >> give us some examples. i can go on my phone and order pretty much what i want from amazon. how does that move out to healthcare? >> the amazing thing is you
can't order stuff from order, you can order pizza and buy tickets but the things that are most important like staying healthy or helping your kids learn hasn't changed that much, healthcare there is a lot of startups innovating not just in silicon valley but all across the country, creating new ways to stay healthy and manage a sickness. similarly on education teachers -- some teachers are leaving, we see this in new orleans, other parts of the country that had been teaching, now they are entrepreneurs starting educational software countries because they understand the environment in the classroom and how teachers need tools to better teach and students need tools to have a personalized adaptive approach to learning. >> how do you draw that back to the middle class who is so angry they are not seeing job growth, losing their jobs in some industries. when you talk about technology and you talk about the need for new education, for jobs of the future, is there a disconnect because there appears to be one. >> there is.
>> geometry may not be the class you need to take it's coding and how big of an infrastructure change is that going to take? >> i think there are a lot of chengs, that's why i decided to write a book to lay out the framework for future. particularly the area of work. when i was growing up my dad had one job for 60 years, i had a few jobs in a few years, now people have a few jobs in a few days. the nature of work is i think chag, not just about technology, it's integrating every aspect of our lives. people need to take more control of their own career and think about the skills not just so they get in school about you how they continue to develop those skills to be active participants in this emerging economy. >> steve liesman, share with us cnbc's all american survey asking a couple of questions one of which is who is better on the economy clinton or trump? >> we dug deal into the economy and found an amazing tie, you know how the national polls say when hillary takes on trump head
to head hillary beats trump. when you look at all five candidates and say who is best on the economy they're tied, who is best for your wages they're tied, who is best for small business slight edge for trump, who is best for immigration, very slight edge for hillary clinton and what's interesting on some of these issues, take a look at your wages they are actually second to none. look at this poll. 25% say none. so there is a lot of -- what's the word -- dissatisfaction out there in terms of the choices that are available to people. they don't like either candidate and by the way what you should know is when we ask what the number one issue s it's the economy. >> i know. >> and foreign policy up just a little bit. who is best for the stock market, regulating banks and business, two things about this screen right here, first of all, trump beats clinton but look at the threat from bernie to his right, i guess, in this case to hillary clinton. 25% say bernie sanders over
hillary clinton 16% and about even with trump right there. so, by the way, this poll shows us two things, kasich and cruz have captured nobody's imagination about nothing, unfortunately, but it also shows that sanders is really a one -- one-issue candidate. this is the place where he'ses resonating both with democrats and with the american public on this issue of regulating business and regulating wall street. >> steve, the first and second waves of the internet have been blamed along with globalization for costing a lot of working class jobs, middle class jobs, manufacturing jobs. what does a third wave mean? >> i think there's both opportunities and threats. in some of these sectors new jobs will be created but in other sectors jobs will be eliminated. the whole notion of job and work and how people think about their careers will need to change. so people need to move forward, they need to understand the world is changing, this third wave a breaking in an interesting way and will require nor engagement with government, something that "morning joe" will do something because the
sectors most right for disruption in the third wave like health and education and financial services and food and transportation, energy, are regulated by the government. >> i think what she was getting at was interesting was people are afraid of this, they're desperately afraid. when you ask questions about technology, people are afraid they will be losing their jobs, they're looking at what donald trump talked about, stagnant wages and they look at their computers and look at technology and say, do you know what, is this getting me out of a job here? how do you bridge that gap in terms of making people feel like it's useful to their lives and not threatening? >> one of the things i talk about in the book is the notion of impact investing. there are entrepreneurs who are not trying to create shareholders but jobs. shine ola in detroit their purpose was to bring manufacturing back to detroit. so there is a new generation of entrepreneurs who are using technology and trying to lean in
the future, be part of this third wave but they recognize it's not just about profits it's about purpose and i think there is a new class of not just entrepreneurs and investors but customers, particularly millennials who want to work for and do business with companies who do have a positive impact for jobs. >> you talk about the government. i remember one day a couple months ago i had two brushes with the federal government, one was trying to get a stamp to mail a letter to my child who is off in campus in washington, i wandered into a post office, and stood in line for 30 minutes. just unbelievable. >> right. >> then later that day i had to get on to the phone with a federal bureaucracy and it was an hour and a half just sitting there and it was like i was in 1961. i'm sure government service would have been better then. >> that situation dragged out for months. >> that dragged out for months. i probably spent ten hours on the phone getting incompetent people on the line that had no idea what was going on.
i sat there thinking we are in 2016. any business would have fired everybody up and down the line, would have fired them in a second. the post office would have been out of business in a second. when? when does technology get applied to the federal government and make it more friendly for the consumer? >> i totally agree, that's one of the chapters of the book called america disrupted. government needs to be rebooted and reimagined and a whole new set of services need to be delivered and government needs to figure out not just have regulations to keep bad things from happening but how do you get good things to happen. >> upgrading the telecom system at the white house this week for the first time. >> the book is "the third wave" steve case thank you very much. steve liesman thank you as well. very interesting. we will be right back with much more "morning joe." is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter
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yes, i am. so final thoughts on the wisconsin primary as the polls are now open in the badger state. i think hillary clinton is going to have a better night than the polls are predicting. what do you think? >> i don't really know what's going to happen. i do think on the democratic side the front runner, hillary, is going to do better. i'm not sure what's going to happen on the republican side. >> i can't figure that. i might have wishful thinking. >> i guess cruz up 5, but we shall see. >> kasich will blow it out into four simple words, let the badgers decide. >> let the badgers decide.
okay. bianna. >> let the badger roar. let the badger roar. >> i like that. i think it goes back to what steve liesman told us off camera, when it comes down to voters it's all about anger over politics even more than it is over their personal finances. >> the turnout will be massive. >> is it really? >> it will be massive and we may not know until late because milwaukee reports slowly. >> they take their time. >> laverne and shirley why bowling, have beers. >> hello. >> okay. we are not done yet today. no, we are not. >> it just keeps going. >> we are back in afternoon from 3:00 to 5:00, they're setting up the bar right now, a little coffee shop action, a little bit of afternoon joe from 3:00 to 5:00 p.m. a note that tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. joe and i will be participating in a live unscripted conversation on facebook. >> you know i don't do anything unscripted. >> are we really? >> what is facebook? >> it's part of a new platform nor realtime story telling and
reporting and you can see it at facebook.com/msnbc. that's going to be interesting. >> very excited about that. but just about as excited as chuck todd and savannah guthrie picking up the coverage. >> oh, yes. >> right after this. >> they're straight ahead. have a great day. ♪ ♪ (laughing) there's nothing like making their day. except making sure their tomorrow is taken care of too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can.
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good morning, everybody, it's election day, tuesday, i'm savannah guthrie. >> and what year are we in? >> is this 2010. >> >> are you savannah? where are we? it's 9:00 a.m. >> this is really old days, this is old school. >> real old school. >> we used to do this every day. >> the polls are open across wisconsin for what is a big test for the remaining presidential candidates, both front runners, hillary clinton, donald trump, well, guess what, they are the underdogs today in wisconsin. but there's arguably more drama on the republican side. we've been saying that all year long. the question today, can ted cruz change the trajectory of the gop race with a big double digit win tonight? 42 republican delegates are up for grabs in wisconsin and the candidates are battling for every last one of them, congressional district by congressional district. a loss by trump will make it much more difficult for him to win the