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tv   MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts  MSNBC  April 5, 2016 10:00am-12:01pm PDT

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i'm craig melvin today on "msnbc live." it is super tuesday in wisconsin. we're coming to you live from the lake front brewery in downtown milwaukee. tourists and locals here for tours and tastings. politics aside, a special day here. the new grist pilsner, bottled today. primary day. turnout expected to be very high. perhaps record breaking high. nearly 80% in at least one county alone and reporting longer lines than usual. we are heading into our sixth hour of voting. we've got eight more to go. polls at 8:00. local, 9:00 eastern time. wisconsin polls had ted cruz and bernie sanders in the lead but tonight's badger state battle could be a buzzer beater.
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>> i guess it goes down as one of the greatest games ever in nca. >> we could all agree on that. the heart thumping finish last night in houston with villanova stunned. unc is an instant classic. who gets benched here in the badger state's big distance. there are 42 delegates up for grabs today. trump appears to be playing beat the clock himself making off the record stops and doing impromptu interviews with our own chris jansing where he talked about his rocky week. >> i've had worse weeks on the campaign. i mean, i've had so many weeks that i think a couple of them that were worse. in one case, i went up in the polls. so couldn't have been so disastrous. >> moments ago, president obama took a not so veiled swipe at both trump and cruz. >> i am getting questions constantly from foreign leaders about some of the whackier
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suggestions that are being made. i do have to emphasize it's not just mr. trump's proposals. i mean, you're hearing concerns about mr. cruz's proposals, which in some ways, are just as draconian, when it comes to immigration, for example. >> on the democrat side, the big question tonight, can bernie sanders pull off a win big enough to boost his momentum going into new york where hillary clinton still has a double digit lead. sanders making a few unannounced stops in milwaukee and clinton spending the day in new york. neither have plans for a rally here in wisconsin tonight. we've got it all covered for you on this primary day. all of the excitement across the state. we start with nbc's chris jansing. she is in wakasha. you saw that time we spent with donald trump. appears to be spinning everything positive about today.
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best case scenario for him tonight, worst case scenario, and tell us more about that interview with him. >> reporter: yeah, well, let's just say, he does not believe the polls that show him getting beat by ted cruz. best case scenario, i think, obvious he pulls off a win here, it would be extraordinary and devastating for ted cruz and devastating for the republican establishment here because they put so much behind these anti-trump efforts so much behind ted cruz's candidacy. having said that, a lot have been on the ground a long time and donald trump could be limited to three to six of the 42 delegates. worst case scenario, he gets shut out and big momentum for ted cruz and first victory for the anti-trump forces but he doesn't think that will happen. he thinks they'll surprise people. he's totally ignoring or said he didn't know anything about these reports from our own katy tur as well as the cover story of "new york" magazine his campaign is in disarray with the old guard
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and the new guard. if he does badly here though, look at the numbers for women. he has those incredibly high negatives. 70% to 77% with women here and around the country, but when i asked him about that. here's what he told me. >> if you look at the tape, what did corey lewandowski do? am i supposed to be loyal to a person or because somebody filed something? because if you look at the complaint, i mean, people have, we don't have to get into now, but people look at the tape and said, what did he do wrong, i have to be loyal to people like i am loyal to the people of this country, but when you analyze it, it's called give me a break. >> you have corey lewandowski, his campaign manager who is accused of grabbing michelle fields, that reporter. you have his comments to chris matthews about abortion. all of that adding to what has been these terrible poll numbers among women. he said, i was in a room with women and said how much they support me and how much i mean
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to the security of this country. so he's looking at it from a very different lens. it could be a turning point one way or the other on the republican side of this race. >> chris jansing in waukesha, thank you. ted cruz could be poised for a big win tonight in the badger state. a cruz win could give the stop trump movement new momentum and reshape this race. ted cruz talked about the imp implications with charlie sykes radio show. >> i think the entire country is looking to wisconsin. wisconsin has repercussions not just for the 42 delegates here in wisconsin but i believe it is going to powerfully impact the states to come. >> but a report in the new york
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times claims cruz not too happy at all because john kasich will not get out. quote, mr. cruz's team argued that it is mr. kasich's quixotic bid for the white house that will prove the biggest boon to mr. trump in the states to come. nb nbc's hallie jackson. maybe a mile or two miles from where i sit right now. good to see you. come over for a bit when you're done. kasich vowed to stay in the race. is he a threat to ted cruz's chances right now? >> reporter: well, i think threat might be overstating it, at least in the eyes of the cruz campaign, craig. but the campaign would prefer it was just them versus donald trump. cruz talked about the idea that kasich will not or should not be on that ballot come in july. here's what he had to say on sykes' radio show.
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>> any candidate without a path to winning, that's the time you should suspend your campaign and kasich has been mathematically eliminated. needs more than 100% of the delegates to be the nominee. that's obviously impossible. you can't get more than 100%. and he's lost 30 states in a row. the only state he's prevailed in is his home state. >> reporter: the home state of ohio, of course, the cruz campaign making the argument that wisconsin looks a lot like ohio, sort of trying to make the point that kasich should have done better here or should be doing better here in the polls with endorsements when it comes to people like governor scott walker, backing ted cruz. obviously, when it comes to the kasich factor, the fact that kasich could potentially take some of the delegates away from maybe donald trump or ted cruz is not something that the cruz campaign wants to see. kasich has promised to stay until the convention. he sees his path as opening up once we hit july 18th.
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>> how's the cruz campaign feeling today? >> reporter: mood in cruz world is confident. we talked about the predictions with double digit win in wisconsin despite the discussion about john kasich. the other part of it? where does he go from here, east. places like new york. the next big primary coming up, obviously, as places where cruz is not conceding to donald trump even though the conventional wisdom is that trump will do better and these are places that trump is strong. it sets up wisconsin as potentially a turning point. cruz does well here and picks up momentum and makes the argument that he could bring together moderates and conservatives in the east as this race heads towards the east coast or cruz does well here and marinate in that for a couple of weeks and trump comes and just romps in places like we've been talking about like pennsylvania and new york. so that's going to be the big question mark and we turn out of wisconsin later tonight. as we head through the rest of the primary calendar.
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>> south carolina state chairman for the trump campaign and he's a trump staffer as well and always good to see. it's been a long time my friend. thanks for coming on. >> great to see you too. >> donald trump, as you know, predicting a surprise here in wisconsin. the polling we've seen bears it out just yet. if he only picks up a few delegates, the march to the convention gets harder. he would need almost 60% of the remaining delegates. what's the strategy if he does not run it tonight? >> if you saw the arg poll yesterday, it had mr. trump gaining actually with a very substantial lead over mr. cruz. so the momentum is on the trump campaign's team here. there's clearly a movement toward mr. trump. he's been storming all over the state. down here in south carolina, i'm not up in wisconsin, but i can
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tell you, the excitement and the enthusiasm for the momentum mr. trump has is substantial. >> katy tur covers the trump campaign for us. she's done extensive reporting on infighting among the inner circ circle. corey lewandowski charged with battery right now, of course. he's running a campaign that's too small and too inexperienced and that leads to some of the trvr trouble like what we've seen over the last few weeks. is lewandowski, is he in trouble? is he on the outs and how real is the possibility that we see some staffing changes in the next few days or weeks? >> craig, i ran the south carolina campaign down in south carolina during the primary and so i'm not involved but i can tell you this. mr. lewandowski, corey, is a very substantive leader. he's been a great resource for mr. trump. mr. trump has clearly shown his support of corey and i think mr.
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trump is a man of his word. i think people respect the fact that mr. trump is not thrown a man with a family overboard, ruined his career, and i think he's gotten back on message very well and moved on with the campaign. that's what we're focused on. that's what the team is focus on and i think corey's done a fantastic job in south carolina. we couldn't have asked for more from corey. he was a great leader and someone who i think mr. trump relies a great deal on and i think he'll do a great job as we move forward. >> i want to get your take on something the president just said. he was talking, of course, about trump's plan to pay for this wall and the southern wall with mexico. one of the plans he's outlined is a plan that would essentially stop the flow of money from mexican immigrants, stop that flow from going back to mexico until the president agreed to pay for the wall. this is the president talking about it a short time ago. take a listen.
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>> the notion we're going to track every western union, you know, bit of money that's being sent to mexico, you know, good luck with that. then we've got the issue of the implications for the mexican economy. which in turn, if it's collapsing, actually sends more immigrants north because they can't find jobs back in mexico. but this is just one more example of something that is not thought through and is primarily put forward for political consumption. >> is that a plan that has been thought through? >> craig, we have a man who has a company worth $10 billion who went to whar ton business school running for president. mr. trump, his message is a message very well thought through. the notion that the president of the united states for eight years has let the border run like a civ with illegal immigration running through this country and costing this
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country, the tens of billions of dollars it's cost us is the real notion that we need to wonder how a president can stand up in front of a microphone and say what he just said. >> and i think you're aware that illegal immigration to the united states is actually at a historic low right now. >> i think anyone who goes down on the border and anyone who looks at some of the circumstances in this country realizes that we have a very serious crisis. it's all relative. an all time low relative to one time, it's still not good. illegal immigration is illegal and mr. trump has committed to building a wall and also making sure to line up with the mexican government paying for that wall to be built. he has a plan for it to be done. i have great faith in having watched mr. trump that he will get it done. >> ed mcmullen with the trump campaign on this super tuesday. thanks again, sir. >> craig, great being with you. thank you.
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>> microsoft pulse question. this is what we're asking. is a loss in wisconsin a game changer for donald trump's campaign? the pulse is live at pulse.msnbc.com to be a part of the conversation right now. don't miss tonight's battleground wisconsin coverage at 5:00 eastern with steve kornacki and chuck todd. chris matthews live from wisconsin and brian williams and rachel maddow at 8:00. all of that tonight right here on msnbc, the place for politics. up next, we'll turn to the democrats. can bernie sanders pull off a michigan style victory in wisconsin? the clinton campaign said even a sanders win won't stop the path to the nomination. we'll check on the democrats. next. you're watching msnbc live from milwaukee, wisconsin. hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon... then quickly fell back to earth landing on the roof of a dutch colonial.
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as voters head to the polls here in wisconsin, right now, bernie sanders, will try to extend his winning streak. when asked about the difficult delegate math of the nomination, this is what he said to our own andrea mitchell last hour. >> hillary and i absolutely agree would be to see a donald trump or republican in the white house. and i think that when super delegates look at the reality of which candidate is the strongest against republicans, i think you could see a lot of those super delegates coming up with us. >> sanders holding a rally in laramie and hillary in adopted home state of new york. making a real play for the
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empire state. featuring the daughter of eric garner. garner, of course, the man killed after being put in a choke hold by police. take a listen. >> i got to see my dad die on national tv. they don't know what they took from us. people are dying. we need a president that's going to talk about it. i believe bernie sanders is a protester. he's not scared to go up against the criminal justice system. he's not scared. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell is following the sanders campaign today. kelly, as you know, polls show sanders ahead here in the badger state. how confident is the campaign feeling tonight? >> feeling good. but the question, craig, really is how much of a margin? if he is victorious and would that help shape the momentum going forward? and spending time with bernie sanders events in wisconsin, part of what you really saw was him urging, especially young
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voters, to actually turn out. not just stand in line to attend an event but really turn out. he makes that argument again and again, the higher the turnout, the correlation he sees the more likely he is to win and perhaps win big. when you compare that also with sort of the move coming up with the clinton campaign and how they've tried to lower expectations and it's about can bernie sanders put up the kind of win that helps to shape the race going forward. craig? >> i want to talk to you quickly about this article. bernie sanders did this lengthy interview and talked about wall street corruption. a central theme in his campaign. he said the president has the authority to unilaterally break up the banks. a point of contingent but asked precisely how, he didn't have a plan, he didn't have a plan about how to do that. why not? what is the campaign saying about this interview? >> one thing that makes this so
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important and worth noting even though some of the issues are complicated to read it through for voters to digest themselves, it gets complicated, but it matters because it's new york, one of the next contests and matters because they asked him about things that are the core of his message to voters. where he talks all the time about the corporate corruption and need to break up big banks if they're too big to fail, they should be broken up. when you see a candidate who is very well practiced as sanders is on his stump speech but struggling, there are specific questions and trouble in the sense he said quite clearly, maybe it would be under the dodd frank law, maybe it would be the president's authority. and really, acknowledging some topics, he hadn't thought it through. that raises the question, does he have a plan to follow through? before voters and stirring them up. >> kelly o'donnell for us.
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thank you, ma'am. joseph peci is a wisconsin guy, born and bread. let's start with what you are looking at tonight. what are you looking for? >> i want to see the make-up of the electorate looks like. 40% weren't democrats. if they participate in the democratic primary versus the republican, that could influence both races. >> open primaries here in wisconsin. how does that change things? >> the i think the more democrats you have voting in the democratic primary, the better that is for secretary clinton. the more republicans you have voting in the republican primary, the better that is for cruz. so goes the thinking. and so if the independents break hard, one way or the other, it could upset even some of the polling we're seeing recently. >> the size and scope of a sanders victory here in
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wisconsin. is that more important than the victory itself? >> yes. in terms of the delegate count. they all believe that sanders will win. what nobody can agree on is the margin of victory. i've heard anywhere from 6 to 16 points and the difficulty for senator sanders, even when barack obama won this state eight years ago with an 18 point spread, only netted 10 more delegates out of here than senator clinton did. so it's really hard for him to take a big chunk out of her delegate lead to want, even if he wins. >> so a good night for him is how many? >> i would say 65 to 70% of the pledged delegates, and he's really got to run up the score. we're talking 50% or more in the popular vote to even have a shot at that and i just don't see that happening. i think he ultimately wins, but i don't think he's going to run away with it. >> democratic strategist joseph
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peki, thank you. we've got breaking news. a news conference down south in alabama. state representative there is about to announce his plans to start the process to impeach governor robert bentley there. bentley under fire for misusing state resources. the alleged affair and breaking news in mississippi as well. the governor there has signed a controversial bill that protects a person for their beliefs on marriage and gender. it would allow public and private businesses to refuse service to gay couples. we watch both stories when we come back. we hit the road and check polling stations in green bay and madison as well. more turnout again, reportedly extremely high. long lines have been the norm throughout the morning here in wisconsin. we'll get an update. you're watching "msnbc live"
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officials here in wisconsin predicting the higher turnout perhaps in decades and as people head to the polls, republican candidates make the final pushes in the state. ted cruz is expected to win the contest. he's in milwaukee today. donald trump stumping as well in wisconsin. john kasich off the trail today doing some state business. mean while, the democrats, bernie sanders and hillary clinton turning the page on the badger state to focus on the next contest. sanders expecting to edge out a victory over clinton and sanders in wyoming and hillary clinton in brooklyn. we're on the ground all over wisconsin covering the state's pivotal primary from county to county. let's start with msnbc's jacob soboroff in madison, a city with a heavy population of college
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students. it's badger country there. what's the turnout specifically among young people looking like so far there, sir? >> i give you exact numbers, as a matter of fact, for this location. i am at the university of wisconsin-madison. this is one of the busier polling locations. these people put their ballots in, i am careful not to show what this gentleman is putting on his ballot but picking up a sticker. we've got 580. thank you for voting. and this is most likely bernie sanders country. possibly hillary country but the question really as i walk down the country is not whether or not bernie and hillary are going to win but whether or not the students are able to vote for them. down this hallway here, i'll show you down the hall, the issue when i say whether or not they'll be able to vote for them is this. this is a university of wisconsin voter id and the reason these things exist is because of a new restrictive voting law some might say put in
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2011 and finally allow to come into play by the courts this year and all of these students in line not in line to vote. they are in line to get a student id and maybe i can scoot in here. hey, guys, are you in line to get your id? >> this is my bernie sanders sweater. >> reporter: you can't vote for bernie yet because you haven't gotten your student id. what's your name? >> chloe green. >> reporter: other than partying too hard, why did you get out in the first place? >> i am from california. >> reporter: out of state. this is important. out of state students cannot vote with their out of state driver's licenses. in-state can. people picked these things up so far, they expect 6,000 people at a high to do that and this whole line of people, the voter ids and all day long here and send
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it back to you. >> the practical effect of the new voter id law. thank you so much, jacob soboroff. let's go to tony dokoupil at a polling location in green bay. tony, we understand that officials there are expecting a wave of first-time voters as well. what are you seeing? what are you hearing? >> reporter: we see a very, very big turnout here. it is the largest polling station in green bay and the biggest turnout in memory. people at the back are looking at it, turning away. saying i've got class and work and other people part way through. it was 20 minutes this morning and 30 minutes and 40 minutes and looking at an hour long line. it's really two lines here because of the same day registration in wisconsin and this guy here in the hat, he's filling out a same-day voter registration form part of a wild card. this is an important location for the sanders campaign and for the trump campaign. they both took visits to this and big speeches to large crowds
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hoping to win over a key working class, middle class vote. you might recognize tanya here at the chris matthews town hall and tripped up donald trump a bit. and chuck is the election official running this show. you described it as tap dancing on quick sand. tell us why. >> we've been very busy. we have a large, as you can see by the long lines, the longest lines that we can remember for any election year and we have a number of factors. we have a contested race that covers this area and a state supreme court contested race that's going on and of course, we have the presidential primaries. and adding to that as we have the new voter id law that slows down the process of running through the situation and plus with the large number of new voters that are registering or voters who haven't registered in a while and have to come back and register, this takes time for us. >> i want to show people bottleneck. thank you very much.
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this long line leads to here where they check in and show their id and they can confirm their address. people get through the line, the voting booths themselves right here are not even full. so you've got an hour long line but because of a bottleneck at check-in, the voter id law and the residency requirements, people aren't even utilizing all of the available voting booths. so we'll talk to chuck later today how he will alleviate this because keep in mind, this is not even the lunch hour rush. this is going to get worse, craig. >> msnbc's tony dokoupil for us in green bay. thank you, sir. coming up, we'll talk to a local journalist. someone who knows the politics here very well. we'll talk to her about which groups are feeling the greatest impact of that controversial new voter id law here in wisconsin and talk to her about what she's seeing and hearing on the ground with regards to turnout and who might have an edge in which counties and all of that stuff.
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we follow breaking news right now in the state of alabama. you are looking at a news conference that's just gotten under way. ed henry is a state lawmaker there who just announced moments ago that he is going to be starting the impeachment process against the governor bentley that's expected to happen in a few hours. let's listen in to this news conference. >> he betrayed the trust of the people of alabama through actions and lies that have caused us to have some doubt about his leadership and as such, the only course the people of alabama have to address this issue is through this
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impeachment process. so this process is going to start today. i want to first say that i'm thankful that the governor has reconciled his actions with our lord and jesus christ and i hope the best for him. as always, our actions, while we may in a spiritual sense find our forgiveness, they still have consequences. and those consequences are this process and the possible removal of office for his actions. and with that, we'll start today. i will ask any of my colleagues if they'd like to add anything and then open it up to questions. >> there you have it. ed henry, lawmaker there saying he's going to be introducing the resolution to impeach the governor of alabama on the floor
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of the legislature this afternoon. of course, the governor there robert bentley has come under fire the last few weeks. there's the alleged affair. although, the governor we should note has denied any sort of marital wrongdoing, he has admitted to having improper conversations with a senior staffer. although lawmakers there are quick to point out that the isn't so much over the affair but the misuse of state funds to cover up that alleged affair. again, the governor of alabama expected to face an impeachment proceeding that will start in a few hours and we continue to watch what happens in alabama but we are here in wisconsin. let's turn to the politics. republican scott walker's controversial voter id law considered one of the strictest in the country makes its presidential primary debut today. we heard the practical effects of that law.
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the law itself requires voters to show photo identification when they go to the polls. an estimated 300,000 wisconsinites are reported to not have one of the limited forms of id required to vote. joining me, mary spacuza. what are you seeing with regard to the practical application? we know they predicted record vot voter turnout here. 40% at least in upwards of 70% or 80% in others. >> i haven't heard of any major problems of people being turned away at the polls yet. however, i have heard of longer lines and some delays as people work through the voter id process. there is some confusion over what is acceptable id, what isn't, who's exempt from having it and also, what the requirements are for residency and whether you have to have a
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current address, which you don't. >> this is what a voter said a few moments ago about how the hispanic community in particular is being affected by this law. take a listen. >> we still have a lot of barriers that we need to conquer that only financially, language-wise and cultural too, some cultures, having an id, it's not part of the routine. >> in record, first of all, rampant voter fraud. this is something that's going to disenfranchise black and brown voters today. >> this is one of the issues completely split by republicans and democrats here. republicans say that the voter id law is to prevent voter fraud, prevent people from voting illegally. we have not seen widespread voter fraud in wisconsin. there's a few isolated cases and democrats say it's typically
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democratic voters who will be moving more frequently and could be disenfranchised by this law. >> record turnout. who would that benefit most on the republican side and the democrat side? >> i think that the establishment republicans here are going all in for ted cruz. we obviously saw governor walker endorse him. a lot of the conservative talk radio. i actually think for record turnout, people like donald trump would benefit more on the republican side because he appeals to voters who don't typically turn out. on the democratic side, banned becau bernie sanders because we had a lot of university students. hillary benefits by voters in milwaukee though. >> trump said he would win over reagan democrats, basically. any truth to that based on what you see and who are these voters
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and where do they live? >> i think he is winning over some disenfranchised voters. he's won over in northern wisconsin like appleton area, but i would say that the southeastern wisconsin republicans are certainly supporting ted cruz in that one. >> his prediction of a surprise here in the badger state. >> it would be a surprise. >> big surprise. >> stress surprise. >> we appreciate your insight and reporting. from the milwaukee journal sentinel. we be right back. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. ♪ when it's go, the new choice privileges
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28% of you say yes. the pulse is still live though. keep the conversation going at pulse.msnbc.com. still ahead here. donald trump down a smidge. nowhere near out though. clock ticking for the movement to stop the front-runner. i'll ask the founder of the al principles anti-trump pac what her strategy is next. >> i think it's going to be a great day in wisconsin and i think we'll do very well. i don't know. but based on the enthusiasm, how do you think we're going to do in wisconsin? >> great! >> i think we're going to do really well. i hope so. i'm mary ellen, and i quit smoking with chantix. i always came back to smoking. i was absolutely frustrated, absolutely. i did not think chantix would work as well as it did. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, stility, agitation,
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uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. the outcome of tonight's results here in wisconsin could be pivotal for the stop trump movement. if ted cruz comes out way ahead, it could give the movement new
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momentum. if cruz's numbers are way lower, though, it could serve as a knockout round. the trump campaign spent $2 million compared to the pro-trump at $512,000. tonight is it make or break for the stop trump movement? >> i don't know if it's make or break. we certainly anticipate that donald trump is not going to have a good night tonight. i don't think he's going to win wisconsin, and we've said for a long time if he doesn't win both wisconsin and indiana, he simply doesn't have the math to get to 1,237 delegates. we're already planning, starting tomorrow, really focusing on the delegate count. every single day we'll be looking to see where we can peel back from that number, but we anticipate that senator cruz is going to win tonight and that donald trump will not be able to
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get to 1237 delegates in cleveland, so this battle will go to cleveland. >> i want to show our viewers and for our listeners as well, nbc survey monkey, this on-line poll we conducted recently, it shows that trump is still the national frontrunner, although his support did drop 3 percentage points over the past week. what happened to trump last week has been well reported at this point. his campaign manager charged with misdemeanor battery. there was, of course, the back and forth over abortion, a host of other things happened last week, and he just drops three points. at what point do your efforts become futile? >> well, at the point at which he gets 1237 delegates. there is no mechanism to just hand somebody the nomination if they can't get 1237 delegates. you saw even in those numbers he still isn't at 50%. he doesn't represent 50% plus one of the republican
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electorate, and that's who gets to choose who the nominee is. so most of these places have had contests already. the national polls don't really matter anymore. statewide wins don't really matter anymore. what matters after today is just all about delegates. and we're going to be focusing very aggressively on every place that we can deprive him of delegates and very aggressively focusing on depriving him of 1237 delegates on the convention floor, and we think we're going to succeed at that. my money is on somebody other than donald trump emerging as the republican nominee. >> if you go into cleveland and he doesn't have 1237 but does have the plurality of voters stripping him of the nomination at that point would be -- >> no, craig, we're not stripping anybody of the nomination. if they don't have 1237, they don't have it. >> you're right, you're right, slip of the tongue there. if he does not get the nomination in despite going in with the plurality, you
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acknowledge that would be unprecedented in the modern political era. >> well, it would be unprecedented to hand the nomination to somebody who doesn't have 1237 delegates. it's each candidate's responsibility to collect 1237 delegates on the floor of the convention. there is virtually no mechanism to hand it to a candidate that doesn't have a majority. the plurality notwithstanding, there is no one saying, well, you got close so we're going to give it to you. each candidate has to get 1237 delegates, that's the rule. >> katie packer dropping her opinions as well. what do you make of this opinion if kasich were to get out of the race at this point that would help ted cruz? >> well, i don't know that we can know that. you know, there's been a lot of speculating over time that if one candidate got out, another candidate would be helped. we are very interested in depriving donald trump of the necessary delegates to get a majority. if kasich can accomplish that in
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a place where ted cruz can't, then so be it. we're not advocating for anybody to get out. each of these candidates has the right to launch their campaign and aggressively pursue the campaign. we're totally focused of depriving donald trump of the 1237. >> so let's play a hypothetical game here. let's say you do deprive him. he doesn't make it past the first ballot, then what? who emerges? >> i don't think we know the answer to that. i do think on the second, third and fourth ballot that his numbers are going to drop precipitously because i don't think he has the majority of support of republicans, certainly not republicans that are very active and likely to be attending the convention as delegates. you know, i think, you know, the odds would be in favor of ted cruz. it wouldn't be, you know, totally unthinkable that somebody else cooey meruld emer consensus candidate. i don't think we know the answer to that. my focus is that we have a conservative republican that has a shot at beating hillary and helping our candidates on down
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the ballot to do well against democrats in the fall. i don't think donald trump fits that bill on any front. >> katie packer from our principal's pac, not part of the illuminati. katie, thank you very much. have a fantastic tuesday. that's going to wrap up our coverage live from the il lrk b. chuck todd at 5:00 p.m., steve kornacki at 6:00, chris matthews also from the brewery at 7:00 and rachel maddow joining us at 8:00. that's all on msnbc, the place for politics.
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good afternoon. i'm chris hayes coming to you live from the lakefront brewery here in milwaukee, wisconsin. polls here in wisconsin are open for today's crucial primary. big deal today about not who will win but by how much? ted cruz and bernie sanders top of the polling, but you never know what will happen with the actual dates. they're both expected to be at the lead of their respective. donald trump holds a 275-delegate lead. if cruz is able to get wisconsin, it will be that much harder for trump to reach that number of 1237. he predicted he would defy expectations. >> we feel great. the turnout is fantastic. we had a poll come out last night, actually, a pollster that
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called south carolina and said i wasn't supposed to win south carolina. we feel really good about this. >> meanwhile, speaking from the white house this afternoon, president obama was asked about donald trump's new proposal to bar undocumented immigrants from sending money home to their families. >> i am getting questions constantly from foreign leaders about some of the wackier suggestions that are being made. i do have to emphasize that it's not just mr. trump's proposals. i mean, you're also hearing concerns about mr. cruz's proposals, which in some ways are just as draconian when it comes to immigration, for example. >> on the democratic side hillary clinton maintains a 255 pledged delegate lead over the vermont senator. sanders will need a large victory tonight in order to dig into that deficit. here is sanders discussing his
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odds earlier in milwaukee. >> we are hoping that here in wisconsin there will be a record-breaking turnout. if people come out to vote in large numbers, i think we're going to do very, very well, and that's what we're hoping. >> we have a team in place across wisconsin today surrounding today's story, the big primary here. we're with msnbc's chris jansing in a poll location in waukesha, wisconsin where she spoke with donald trump earlier today. chris, what was your sense of trump's feeling about tonight? >> reporter: well, he's feeling really confident, really defying what the polls had to say. look for a surprise. it would be a surprise if he kept it close, within two or three points. it would be an earthquake if he won this state. it would not only be devastating to ted cruz but devastating to the establishment here. it would really, in either way, if it's a large margin either
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for trump or cruz really change in many ways the course of this race and where it goes next. having said that, he was typical donald trump. he told about, asked about the 70% negative feelings that women have about him. he says that's not true, that women he talks to feel like he's the one to keep the country safe. when he was asked about his campaign manager, cory lewandowski, he just was very dismi dismissive about that. he was very dismissive about any number of things, either the polls or his own actions could show. this is what donald trump had to say when he was asked about these reports both by our own katy tur and by new york magazine. a big cover story that that's infighting in his campaign between the old guard that have been with him for years and some new folks that have come into the campaign. so i said to him, what about this infighting, and this is what he said. >> i have not heard anything
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about infighting. i don't know where you hear it. >> it's being reported, and there are people within your campaign suggesting -- >> i doubt that. >> you feel confident that your campaign is all working together, none of the people who have been brought in -- >> let me ask you, are we number one? >> you are number one -- >> do we have millions more votes than anyone else? will we win today? i can't tell you, but we had a great turnout and i think we'll do very well. >> reporter: a great turnout isn't great for donald trump. every expert i talk to on the ground here in wisconsin, they say places like this, waukesha, a couple neighboring counties where they're expecting huge turnout, where they think it will benefit ted cruz heavily. this is scott walker's country. as you know, scott walker endorsed him. his team is on the ground. they are very well organized. i was at his campaign headquarters yesterday, they were making lots of phone calls. a good turnout, unlike in another place, would not favor donald trump here. this is definitely cruz country,
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chris. >> all right. thank you, msnbc's chris jansing in waukesha. let's bring in nbc's vaughn hilliard who is following the cruz campaign. von, they have to feel pretty confident. the poll numbers have them up. they have very, very strong support in this area of southeastern wisconsin in the milwaukee suburbs. has he been getting out across the state to sort of push those margins up elsewhere? >> reporter: exactly, what we're looking at, we've got eight congressional districts in wisconsin and he's looking to pick up at least six of those, but if he can pull out seven that you see in northern wisconsin, which is green bay, sort of your manufacturing sort of hub, these are areas where he spent a lot of time. we've been there three times in the last 12 days. in a month and a half, there were 30 cities who voted, and cruz is spending maybe a day, two days in these states. but he's had three days here.
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chris jansing said she was at one of his headquarters yesterday. he was in a town of 40,000 people yesterday. but ted cruz, there were at least 12 people making phone calls. they have a field director in that office particularly focused on fondeloc. the candidate, to his credit, has put in the time. he's had three or four events a day. he's got the influential radio hosts here, particularly charlie sykes who, again, had him on this morning, who he's had on the airwaves into these areas where cruz has not been able to hit where he'd like. when you got him on the airwaves it really helps, and he was on the radio this morning. take a listen. >> i hope so. i believe that we're going to win tonight. i think the signs are encouraging, but it really depends, charlie, on your listeners coming out tonight, coming out today and voting and bringing their friends.
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>> reporter: so that was this morning. cruz is lying low today. we'll be seeing him later tonight at his watch party here in milwaukee. >> all right. nbc's von hilliard. thank you very much. the aforementioned charlie sykes played a crucial role in this campaign so far. his anti-trump stance, he was one of the big speakers in waukesha. charlie, glad to have you here. sdp >> thank you. >> explain to me your sense of the sort of feelings of folks in your core listenership about this race. >> this is a moment in which i think a lot of republicans would have been more comfortable with marco rubio, let's be honest about it. ted cruz is not necessarily the best fit. >> i was talking to somebody in waukesha and i was sort of quizzing him. he said, i'll probably vote for cruz, but if rubio were in it --
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rubio would be carrying the milwaukee suburbs, wouldn't he? >> i think he would. so the big question is would the people who would support scott walker first and then rubio, would they make that connection to ted cruz? scott walker's endorsement very influential in this area. donald trump's decision to attack scott walker equally as important because, i mean n these areas where you're seeing this big turnout, these people have been through a lot, his approval rating -- scott walker's approval rating is about 80%. >> among those folks. >> among republicans in the state of wisconsin. at the ted cruz rally last night, he had a couple big rock stars. he had carly fiorina who was a big rock star, ted cruz who was a big rock star and scott walker laying hands on ted cruz very influential. >> chris jansing asked about your interview. i have to play this to get your response. >> you go into the enemy camp sometimes.
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you have to take on the enemy. he's not a very smart guy, not a great guy, and if you listened to the entire show, you would say donald trump totally won that debate. >> you seem like a perfectly bright chap to me, charlie. >> if he did so well, why is he complaining about it so much? do i have to pay rent living in his head over the last week? i think he's spent more time talking about me than hillary clinton. this is one of those weird things about -- my whole point in that interview was to ask donald trump, you're running for president. when are you going to drop the juvenile taunts. instead of actually saying, all right, i'm getting close, i need to pivot, i need to sound more like a presidential candidate, he's gone back to the school yard taunting. and trust me, in wisconsin, this does not play that well. >> i think it was you. did you coin the masada metaphor? this is not trump's masada? how do or die is this, because look, we've been surprised by
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polling results before. there was bernie sanders in michigan. everyone right now i think is in expectation because of the power of the sort of conservative establishment here in milwaukee suburbs and in wisconsin that cruz is favored. if you were if he were to lose, how much of a do or daewie would it be? >> if donald trump were to win, it would be the perfect storm. you have the anti-trump pacs playing very big here on radio, on television, direct mail. robocalls, you have the line-up of popular politicians. if you can't stop donald trump with this, i don't know what the scenario is. i think there is that sense. wisconsin voters have been kind of battle tested in all that. they understand this is a firewall, and if he breaches a firewall, i don't know that anything stops him. >> you're never a trump person. >> never. >> so in november you will never cast a vote for this man.
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>> never trump means never trump. >> i interpreted it as never run for the primary who is running. >> he's racist and xenophobic and irresponsible, so how do you turn around later and say, yes, i think this man should be president of the united states for my fellow conservatives? if he wins, the nominee is pretty much over. how do you walk back to women and minorities and hispanics and say, we are, in fact, an aspirational opportunity party, we are open and inclusive if you have associated yourself with this candidate? you can't do that. >> charlie, thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. up next, the democrats' new numbers showing hillary clinton leading and bernie sanders right
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behind. hillary clinton already looking to new york state. we'll go to brooklyn where hillary clinton will be live. we'll be right back. do not go anywhere. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough, but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores.
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bernie sanders needs a significant win in wisconsin tonight to cut into hillary clinton's considerable delegate lead. sanders has outspent clinton over the airwaves in the badger state by a nearly 3 to 1 margin. he told our own andrea mitchell he's feeling confident. >> it is important, actually. there are a good number of delegates here. our hope is that we can do well, but then we're going to new york state where there are a whole lot more delegates. we're feeling really good. >> his opponent is campaigning in new york today ahead of the primary there.
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now just two weeks away, clinton stopped by "the view" and about her issues with donald trump's campaign. >> i just don't understand what he thinks the role is of somebody running for president. i don't think it is to scapegoat people, divide people, engage in this kind of prejudice and paranoia. so it's not only women and we who should be concerned, it's everybody. because of the way that he conducts himself. >> nbc's kristin welker is following the clinton campaign. she joins me now from new york. kristin, the clinton folks are in new york right now. they're not going to be in wisconsin on election night. what is the thinking behind that? >> reporter: well, it underscores, i think, the clinton campaign is bracing for a loss, and chris, even though the polls show senator sanders subpoena by just a few points, i have to tell you, i've been talking to some folks inside the campaign who say it could be even larger than that. the margins are going to be really significant. if senator sanders pulls off a
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double-digit win tonight, that would give him more delegates and some major momentum heading into new york. and that's where the clinton campaign is focused right now. this is secretary clinton's adopted home turf. this is where she served as senator for two terms, and this is where they really are putting all hands on deck. secretary clinton has this event in brooklyn. former president bill clinton has a number of events throughout the day, and that's because there are more than 200 delegates up for grabs here. i think in the coming weeks you'll see a whole lot of focus on the empire state. but look, in terms of tonight, it's pretty stunning. secretary clinton doesn't have one of those big rallies that you typically have when votes are coming in. instead she's going to be attending a fundraiser, and i think it just speaks to the fact that they are preparing for what is going to be a tough night for them and then they're hoping to
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turn the page on this. chris? >> yeah, they had a very big night a few weeks ago. they won four states and then they had sort of a run of losses. >> reporter: right. >> we talk in the press about momentum, although a lot of that was just produced by the particularities of the state and demographics. but it seems this is set up if sanders does do well tonight for a big showdown in new york. both candidates way claim to that state, both candidates with two weeks leading up to what is a whole lot of delegates in that two weeks. >> and senator sanders has made a real play for new york, too, chris. he was born in brooklyn, and i can tell you his organizers are out in force already. they are pounding the pavement. they are trying to rally his core supporters. this is an issue of mass versus momentum, right? even if senator sanders comes into new york, secretary clinton still has a delegate lead. the campaign likes to call it a nearly insurmountable delegate
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lead. that's comparable if you look at what president obama had in 2012. she has two times the delegate lead. we learn senator sanders outpaced her in fundraising by nearly $15 million last month. he's not going anywhere and is still a fighter in this race. chris? >> kristin welker in new york. thank you so much. make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. ♪ the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. ♪
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roc retinol started visibly reducing my fine lines and wrinkles in one week. and the longer i use it the better it works. retinol correxion from roc. methods, not miracles. technology moves faster than ever. the all-new audi a4, with apple carplay integration. my student i.d. isn't an eligible state-issued i.d. aren't. it's becoming increasingly complicated. students have been leaving the line all day because it's getting too long with new registration requirements and needing to leave for classes or work, so a lot of people aren't voting because they have to leave. >> that was wisconsin college student speaking about the state's newly implemented voter
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i.d. laws, the quirks which have been confusing, some at the polls. it was signed in 2011 by scott walker and requires voters to have an approved i.d. before signing a ballot. about 1.75 million voters, or 40% of the electorate, are expected to cast ballots today. we talk to miss johnson who assures everybody's right to vote. thank you for coming. >> thank you for having me. >> what are you looking for which looks to be a stressor for people in the state? >> i'm looking for people who can come to the polls and easily vote. this voter law -- first of all, i would like to say it is not a voter i.d. it is a photo i.d. when you go to the polls to vote, they will ask for your photo i.d.
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>> underneath the old regime, like when i was growing up in new york, for instance, you had to present a photo i.d. and say your name and sign, right? >> right. when you come to the polls, the orderly thing to do is say your name and address. then they will ask for a photo i.d. they will look at your face and your name. then you sign the poll book and then you get your ballot to vote with. >> there is a lot of concern about the validity of i.d.s and people who can't get i.d.s. students are one of them, but there are also a lot of citizens who simply don't have an i.d. >> absolutely. this law affects people of color, poor people, our students and the homeless. i have been able to go and present and educate the public on the changes in -- for the photo i.d. i even have taken some people to the dmv to get an i.d. so they
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can vote on election day. >> this was signed five years ago and has been caught up in a lot of back and forth litigation. are you happy with the result, or do you think -- would you like to see this law repealed? >> i would like to see this law repealed. i don't think it's a fair law. voting should be an easy thing. i shouldn't have to go to the polls and wonder if i still have the correct i.d. we should be able to walk in and vote and be done. voting is the way that a lot of people get a chance to participate in democracy. we can't do that because of the new laws that are coming up. >> the argument that gets made, and i'm not sure there is much data to back it up, the argument that's made by supporters at this kind of legislation is it's done, and scott walker said this, to stop people from cheating. are you aware of any sort of big
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wave or outward cheating that precipitated this legislation? >> i am not aware of voter fraud in wisconsin. it's a 00.1 percentage, if any. i am not aware of any voter fraud in milwaukee. >> if there was not voter fraud, then why do you think they passed the law? >> so they can win the election. plain and simple. >> you think it's just that clear -- >> plain and simple. they want to stop people from voting. they know that people of low income have two or three jobs. they don't have time to think about, oh, i need to go and get a voter i.d. they have priorities. they're working, they're taking care of their family, and then all of a sudden you say, oh, you need money for a new i.d. they're like, oh, forget it. and i think this is what this government is doing. they're thinking that people will say forget it, we will not vote. >> anita johnson, thank you very much. i appreciate you coming here from vote writers wisconsin. here in wisconsin, votes often
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come down to the size and direction of the voter i.d. back to the wisconsin primary, next. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ hey kevin. hey, fancy seeing you here. uh, i live right over there actually. you've been to my place. no, i wasn't...oh look, you dropped something. it's your resume with a 20 dollar bill taped to it. that's weird. you want to work for ge too. hahaha, what? well we're always looking for developers who are up for big world changing challenges like making planes, trains
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don't just see opportunity, seize it! (applause) as voting in the crucial state of wisconsin enters its fifth hour, officials are seeing record-setting voter turnout across the badger state. this contest is do or die for the second place candidates on both sides of the aisle. a win for ted cruz could stop donald trump from reaching the delegates he needs to claim the party's nomination. for bernie sanders it's all about momentum. a win for him in wisconsin might propel his chances in new york. there is only one thing potentially standing in sanders' wa way. wisconsin's strict voter i.d. law went into effect today and could keep many of wisconsin's
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students from casting their votes. thousands of voters may be impacted by wisconsin's new voter i.d. law. tre'maine, what are you hearing there? >> i'm in the heart of the latino community, and there is a little concern when you think about the possibility of 300,000 voters maybe being left out because they don't have proper i.d. while the poll chief said it's more brisk than usual, she referred to it more like a presidential turnout than a primary. although voters here are concerned, and i spoke with one of those voters. let's take a listen. >> the lines at the dmv are very long. sometimes they may not be conducive to work hours that people have, and then people work. for example, this community's predominantly spanish speaking, and if there is no staff that speaks spanish at the different dmv offices, then it might be a language barrier to keeps people from getting i.d.s. so we still have a lot of
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barriers that we need to conquer, not only financially languagewise, culturally, too. >> reporter: because of those concerns, chris, here at this poll, you see this is an accepted form of i.d. but there's also this in spanish. if you want to come and register and vote the same day, you can. if you take a look to my left here, there are voters filli presenting their i.d.s, filling out registration forms. we've already seen 240 voters where in previous years, you've seen dozens by this time. they're hoping this voter block doesn't keep people from turning out. >> tre'maine, let me ask you a question. almost every polling location i've been to in my life are stocked with volunteers, and those volunteers, god bless them, doing their civic duty. but sometimes when new rules are implemented, they've not been
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properly trained or they're confused about what the rules are. is it your sense that folks there are clear about what i.d. is required, how to walk through the steps of new registration, et cetera? >> reporter: so far they seem to have a good handle on what's going on and what voters actually need. again, there's been kind of a slow ramp-up to this day so they've been very well prepared. ahead of this there's been not only voter education but volunteer education, knowing exactly what you need. it's not a special voter i.d. card. they've had so much confusion, some say intentionally so, to muck up the process. here the volunteers have been handling things smoothly. i spoke to the poll chiefs and they haven't had to turn anyone away for not having the proper identification. in this community, there still needs to be more education so folks really understand what is needed. so far, chris, so good. >> all right, msnbc's tre'maine lee in milwaukee. thank you, i appreciate that. let's go to nbc's jacob
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rascon who is also live in milwauk milwaukee. jacob, what have you heard about the ramp-up of this new law. >> reporter: we've been in milwaukee talking to hispanic voters, because we meet hispanics who support donald trump emphatically, but as you imagine, we need more hispanics saying they don't support him. today we ran into a group of people who rushed to become citizens just to vote against donald trump. these are people who have green cards, they've been in the country for many years, and they just had to do that last stretch of citizenship classes, they had to go through interviews. a lot of people procrastinate that process, and among those is enriq enriquez. he had been here for 20 years. when he heard donald trump talk about mexicans the way he did, he said, i have to get this done. we watched him go in and vote for the very first time and this is what he said.
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>> i know my vote counts. i know that the person that i think is being -- creating all this division, i hope, is not going to be elected. that's what i hope. i don't know. >> reporter: we met a couple other people like him, and he said he had a couple other friends who were in the same position. they just talk amongst themselves, these immigrant rights groups, and they reach out to anybody who is procrastinating that process and say, look, you have to get this done because we have to stop donald trump. that's their thinking. chris? >> jacob, that's interesting. tell me, what is that process? how long does a process like that take from the time you say to yourself, look, i've been putting this off. i'm eligible to become a citizen, i want to be a citizen, from that moment you are able to actually qualify and are registered to vote? >> reporter: generally, if you have a green card, you're a permanent resident for five years. unless you're married, then the
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years go down. you're able to go through the citizenship classes, and for enriquez, it took five months, and that's pretty typical in going through the various interviews, preparing for the tests. so we've heard anywhere from three or four months to six months, and that's really speeding it up. so it usually takes longer. >> all right. very interesting, as you think about some of the reporting we've seen about latino groups and others who have been trying to organize a big push for this fall if, in fact, trump is on the ballot. even if he isn't, getting that timeline there and starting to immobilize him now. much more ahead from the lakefront brewery here in milwaukee, wisconsin. we will be right back. stay there. ♪ ♪ for your retirement, you want to celebrate the little things,
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turn around wisconsin's primary results. there is a range of emotions about a contested convention on the three remaining candidates. donald trump plans to outright win the 1237 delegates he needs at the poll. meanwhile, ted cruz facing a showdown in cleveland or a revolt if it turns to anyone but him or trump. and john kasich shares his ongoing effort for his cinderella run. >> there was a basketball game on saturday night. syracuse did not get as many points as north carolina. many of them are saying, we should be able to go to the final game just because of our effort. you know, the fact of the matter is, is that there are rules. if they don't have enough points to win the game, then we go to a convention. and, you know, we're going to continue to accumulate delegates. >> ben ginsburg is an msnbc
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analy analyst. ben, let me get your opinion on something trump said about a corrupt system in place. take a listen. >> we're dealing with a corrupt system, we're dealing with a system that's not fair, and i say to people, i don't care what it says. if i won, i should get more delegates. >> ben, what do you think of that? >> well, i'm not sure it's a corrupt system. i think that you can have a lot of sympathy for a candidate who loses delegates on a slate as he did saturday in tennessee. but i'm not sure that means the system is corrupt. >> but isn't part of the issue here -- it seems to me that we have two trains careening towards each other. one of them is the fact that in the modern era we have come to understand primaries as
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fundamentally small democratic enterprises in which voters choose the person they want as the nominee. the other, you'll rules of the system aren't that voters choose a nominee, voters simply choose delegates through an attenuated process who in turn choose the nominee, and it's going to be a rude awakening when those two things crash into each other in cleveland. >> i don't think they crash into each other, chris. the democratic primary system has always been about the delegate primary process, and the delegate selection process, and that's picking the delegates. you vote for members of congress or your legislature or your city council, but you don't tell them how to vote on every matter. the delegate selection process is similar to that. >> well, chip, what's your response to that? is that how it sounds to you? >> i actually wrote the by-laws that this was worked out with on saturday.
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this is complicated. it's tough to maneuver. but it's not unfair. those are what the rules are. and, you know, i would probably have liked to have seen a little bit more delegate allocation in tennessee for mr. trump since he did do well in tennessee, but this is the process. like you said, it's complicated. you have to really spend a lot of time on it, but these are the rules. i've been a big proponent. i haven't endorsed anybody, but i want to make sure everybody follows the rules, don't bend the rules for any one candidate, play by what the rules are and that's how we'll come up with our nominee. >> so, ben, is it your position that no matter what happens in cleveland as long as it adheres to the rules, which i would say is true, it will adhere to the rules at the time, that that is going to be a salable legitimate outcome to the party at large and its voters? >> i think, as always, it depends how it's done. the reality is that there will be rules set by the delegates to this convention. and those will be the rules that
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will follow. if what your question is, right now is there a divided republican party, the answer to that is yes. no matter which way you go on some of these issues, you are going to anger a significant number of people. but that's why you have something like a convention with rules, to reach those. and you hope that it comes out in november as a unified party. >> chip, you talked about helping to craft the rules. there are two ways to think about rules in the context of any election, right? those rules can be viewed as, when we look at what we consider legitimate democracies, those rules bind to con strain the people in power. when we look at the places ostensibly that have votes but they're rigged, those people tend to get more power. which can we look at in terms of the republican party? >> i certainly hope it's the one that's fair.
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what you mentioned brings up a great point. optics are going to really matter in this convention. for the first time, people actually care who is on the rules committee, who is on the k credentialing committee. they need to make sure they're as transparent as they can be. somebody is going to lose, somebody is going to be really mad, and we need to make sure it's all laid out for everyone to see so everybody can understand the process of why someone won, but more importantly, if someone loses, why they lost there as well. >> ben, it's been 40 years in which the republican party had a primary in which the candidates went into a convention without it being absolutely locked up. that was ford and reagan, of course, in '76. since it's been 40 years, are you confident that the institutional knowledge, memory and capacity exists within the party to arbitrate this in a transparent and fair manner? >> i'm not sure it's historical
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knowledge, but i do have faith in the people who are in the party to come up with those fair outcomes that you were talking about. i mean, it is a tenet of all conventions, all representative bodies, that the members of that body, the delegates in this case, make the rules for that convention. i do believe that's what's going to happen. and so that will convey the legitimacy of this process. >> chip, based on what you saw happen in tennessee, what is your assessment of the ability of the trump team to maneuver their way through this fairly complicated byzantine thicket of rules to get the maximum amount of delegates to cleveland? >> i'll say this, they're getting better. but time is running short, and they need to keep winning. the easiest way for this to happen is make sure they get to 1237 through the process of winning primaries and caucuses. tonight is going to make an interesting sidebar in that,
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because if he loses, it becomes a little more difficult. still can get there, but that's the easiest route. the trump campaign has been maneuvered on the ground in these states. the delegates are. at some point i think they say, well, we won the state so we get more of the delegates. i think the campaign manager picked up resources around that. i've seen the trump campaign, specially over the next 30 days. i think the easiest way to do it is just get 1237 in the states. >> we'll see coming out of the wisconsin model contests what results they get out of that. thank you for being here. >> thanks, chris.
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it's catch-up day in wisconsin. this is bernie sanders' chance to score big margins and narrow the gap in the delegate score. on the republican side, it's a knife fight for their 42 delegates. trump needs to maintain his delegate lead. cruz needs to build on his momentum to the convention. wisconsin could be riddled with geographical hurdles. jessie is a political reporter for the wisconsin times. give us where things are for cruz and trump, the top contenders? >> the strongest area for donald trump are going to be the north and western part of the state. ted cruz is going to do really well in the southeastern part of
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the state, kind of where you're broadcasting from today in the counties surrounding milwaukee. they call them the wild counties, waukesha, kenosha and wild. they look at it as a strong alternative to keep donald trump from getting the nomination. >> on the democratic side, we see bernie sanders leading. although it's not massive, it's 3 to 5 points. there still remains a kind of real progressive tradition in parts of the state that are very rural. what are the sort of respective strengths for sanders and clinton look like here? >> yeah, actually, the areas where bernie sanders is doing well is a little bit to the west as well, but also really in the area surrounding madison and in madison itself. we obviously have the university of wisconsin here which is a strong population of younger college students, but the rural
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areas surrounding the madison area have long been very independent, can kind of go either way, and areas where bernie sanders is going to do well. on the converse, hillary clinton is probably going to be at her strongest in milwaukee in a strong urban population center. >> up north, the far northern regions of wisconsin, you have kind of a sort of amazing luther lutheran, scandinavian, social democratic population. i would expect bernie sanders would do well up there. >> i would expect that, but really, the rootsiest, most traditional, progressive part of the state, people are caring a lot about the environment up there, it's a gorge under the circumstances are-- gorgeous da and that's a strong point for bernie sanders. >> how much of a battle here over the walker administration and also supreme court,
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wisconsin supreme court judges on the ballot today, how much is that sort of motivating voters? >> that's a big deal here. you know, it's easy to let the race be overshadowed by the presidential excitement, but voters are really invested in the supreme court race. it's a 10-year term. the more conservative candidate was appointed by scott walker in october to serve the remainder of the term on the court. her name is rebecca bradley. she is up against someone who is seen sort of as a referendum on the governor's act 10 policies. in a way, this is again a referendum on scott walker since he did appoint rebecca bradley to the court. people are turning out to vote for that race as much as they are the presidential race, and it will be interesting to see how those two things affect each other. >> it's been really interesting just in the past 24 hours
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talking to voters here. we talked to a bunch of voters who came here last night. there is a lot of interest in that wisconsin supreme court vote. it's almost another proxy vote on scott walker who the people of wisconsin can't seem to get enough voting about. >> it's true. and i think early on we thought, well, walker was pulling at below 40% popularity at the time this race got started and people thought maybe that would actually drag rebecca bradley down. now that he's starting to get a little more popular, now that there's more energy around the primary trying to keep trump from getting the nomination, it seems like that may work to her benefit. >> that's really interesting. jesse opoin from the wisconsin times, thank you. >> thank you, chris. the latest out of wisconsin. "all in" will be back monday at
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i think we're going to do really well. the people of wisconsin are amazing. they want to see strong borders, they want their jobs to stay here, they don't want other countries taking all their jobs and manufacturing. i think we're going to have a great evening. we'll see what happens. >> it is primary day in wisconsin. we are waiting for our first round of exit polls coming in two hours. record turnout, by the way. 42 delegates are in stake for the republicans. >> record turnout, because there's that voter i.d. issue. >> there is no issue. but yes, it's amazing.
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>> i thought they were throwing people in jail if they didn't have photo i.d.s or something. >> they're not. >> they've got record turnout and their reports of voter disen franchisement. >> for the democrats, clinton and sanders are fighting for 86 delegates up for grabs. donald trump enters with a pretty significant lead over ted cruz. having won 47% of the delegates. trump must win 56% of the delegates, otherwise it will be a contested convention. bernie sanders needs 56% of the remaining delegates to get there, so not only does he have to win today but he has to win big. welcome to a special edition of "afternoon joe." yes. he even got a haircut for you.

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