tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 12, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
to figure it out. i want somebody there that will instinctively know what to do. >> that's hardball for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in." >> count me out. >> paul ryan steps away from the trumpster fire. >> i believe you should only choose from a person who is actually participated in the primary. >> tonight, a big win for donald trump as he continues to cry foul. >> you know the system, folks is rigged. >> i'm not complaining about the states that i won. those are okay. >> where the stop trump movement goes from here. new charges that the democratic race is rigged. >> when you talk about rigging the system, that's what senator sanders is trying to do now. >> hillary supporter and mayor of new york joins me live to talk about sanders versus clinton and more. >> cautious politician time.
i've been there. plus, what exactly is john kasich doing, and why the man who smacked a trump protester in the face is only the second worst surrogate in the world today. >> going to start yelling about some bleep. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening if new york. i'm chris hayes. amid increasing protests from donald trump, the fix is in to stop him from winning the republican presidential nomination today. house speaker paul ryan felt the need to declare firmly that he will not be the gop's ringer if the race goes to a contested convention. >> i do not want nor will i except the nomination for our party. let me speak directly to the delegates on this. if no candidate has majority on the first ballot, i believe you should only choose from a person who is actually participated in
the primary. count me out. i simply believe that if you want to be the nominee for our party, to be the president, you should actually run for it. i chose not to do this. therefore, i should not be considered, period, end of story. >> ryan's remarks were designed to squash growing speculation he would be the republican's white knight. coming to the rescue as he did last fall when he accepted the speakership and head off conspiracy theories of back room deals. a new report emerged that ryan is due to attend a secret donor meeting in manhattan. a paper owned by trump's son-in-law. the event turns out to be a fund-raiser unrelated to the presidential race. it is being hosted by the billionaire ricketts family.
while ryan rules himself out today, note he did not say the field should be limited to three candidates still in the running. >> the rules committee, the delegates will decide what the rules are. i will encourage them to put in place a rule that says you can only nominate someone that ran for the job. >> does that mean you think the three candidates remaining? >> i'll leave it up -- i'll leave it up to the delegates at the rules committee to decide that. i believe if you want to be president, you should run for president. >> paging marco rubio. as a contested convention has grown more likely, donald trump and his supporters have been sounding the alarm about what roger stone calls the big deal, proposing extraordinary measures to stop him. >> fix is in, which is why i have urged trump supporters come to cleveland. we're going to have protests, demonstrations. we will disclose the hotels and the room numbers of those
delegates who are directly involved in the steal. >> since ted cruz' clean sweep in colorado where dell gaegates awarding through party convention, donald trump has ramping up his rhetoric about our crooked election system with the exception of the states he won. >> you know the system, folk, is rigged. it's a rigged system. now you have to understand i'm not complaining about the states i won. those are okay. the rnc, the republican national committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. i can tell you that. they should be ashamed of themselves. they took the votes away from people in colorado. people are burning up their republican cards because they want to vote. you have to see what's happening. it's a thing of beauty if you want to know the truth. >> thing of beauty has included
death threats to colorado state chair who says his home number and cell number was posted online. unlike trump, cruz appears confidence this his ability to work the party's rules. he's enjoying twisting the knife over the trump camp's confusion. >> donald needs to stop threatening the voters. needs to stop threatening the delegat delegates. he's not a mobster. donald's whole pitch is he's a great businessman and yet his campaign right now appears he can't run a lemonade stand. if he were an apprentice on the show, he would stay to himself, you're fired. >> all this ignores is the republican party's rules as designed actually give and have given donald trump a massive
advantage. while trump beat cruz by .2% in the popular vote, because of the way delegates are allocated he'll receive 37 votes. joining me national political reporter for the new york times and senior political roeporter for the washington examiner. i want to talk to you tim, man that likes to rail against big money interests. billionaires fund anti-trump delegate push. this is about the ricketts. the idea we're seeing coming into view is the big money failed in the voter part of the election. now they are thinking we can be successful in the delegate part of the election. >> it's going to disclose as a cubs fan you're way too compromised.
>> and biassed to discuss. >> it's a great distinction between some of big money in republican party and the k street wing of the republican party. you have the ricketts, paul singer. you have the kochs. that's a different part of the lobbyist. the lobbyist don't know where they want to go. the big money decaded to t dedi party strength. we can't have him even if we don't think he's the best guy, we can't have him. they are funding the our principles pac just as they funded rubio and jeb. is this going to be lighting money on fire? i don't know. >> do you think it's lighting money on fire? >> first of all, we're talking
maybe four or five families at last public count funding the super pac. it's not really representative of anything. i'm not sure what the pitch here is. advertising didn't work so well. it worked somewhat. >> let me stop you right there because in your own paper there have been a barrage of attack ads. he's more than half the record spending on negative advertising. there's been a lot more in the last month. >> they're going to organize these delegates supposedly to not back anyone in particular while cruz is going to organize them to back him. i don't really see how it works. it's easy to organize around an actual candidate at a convention and to get them behind you. to organize for more of like somewhere in between. >> cruz going into these colorado congressional districts and the state precincts and identifying the people and
putting up a big banner and having t-shirts that say who are the people to vote for who are the cruz ballot. that wasn't some big money paul singer operation. that was a ted cruz campaign doing it well. that might be a lot more effective than any air wars that these big money guys can run. >> this idea of this sort of illeg illegitamacy issues. i think he's going to clean up in the northeast. the question is how much appetite is there? >> anything that result in a donald trump nomination will be donald trump being ripped off. >> outside of his -- >> there is the possibility. a lot of people say rnc will rig it against trump. it's possible if trump is at
1150, they will say, can we kind of steer it towards trump so it doesn't look like too much of a rip off. the rules are so malleable where you have to win a majority of delegates in eight states. paul ryan is saying we're going to rewrite. they could rig it in favor of trump. >> here comes paul ryan to say it's not going to be me. stop speculating. i brought in eight cameras and we cut it together in eight ads. that's just me being me. here he is talking to peter alexander about who he thinks the category of the applicable should be. take a listen. >> earlier today you talked about how the rules committee you would encourage thim em to e it so nobody who didn't run would be on it? >> all i would say is i believe that the members of the rules
committee who have yet to be selected, i think they should have a rule that you have to run for president to get the nomination. you have to be one of the candidates running for president who ran for president. i didn't ran for president. i chose not to run for president. this is why i say i will not be the nominee for our party. we should select among the people who ran for the job. >> there's no such rule that says that. here he is to come say i'm not going to interfere and his opening bid is, let's open the door and make a new rule. >> get there and rewrite all the rules and make mickey mouse the nominee. he is making a pretty basic point. the only thing worse than taking some random figure head and putting them on top of the party for the fall election. the only thing worse than having a marco rubio or kasich come in from behind is someone totally outside the whole game. that would look worse to the grass roots to have somebody plopped on top of the whole operation.
>> i disagree. >> even a rule that allows a kasich or rubio to be put in nomination is changing the rules from 2012. >> it's rigged on purpose. it's rigged on purpose. . parties are private. >> from a constitutional perspective, a american political party is like the homeowners association or your local little league. they can do whatever they want. they can say no one over 5'6" can be. >> or you couldn't have been a hillary clinton donor to be the nominee. you could put in that rule. the existing rule would only -- the 2012 rule would only allow cruz or trump. that was cruz' view. i was surprised. cruz said it should be -- >> they're going to fight for that. the two of them have a joint
interest in fighting on the rules committee. thank you. still to come, did paul ryan's announcement help john kasich? i'll explain or try to, ahead. bernie sanders tries to make uphill hillary clinton' lead. do not go anywhere. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. do not go anywhere. two boyfriends, three jobs... you're like nothing can replace brad. then liberty mutual calls, and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement™, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. ...to put in dr. scholl's active series insoles. they help reduce wear and tear on my legs, becuase they have triple zone protection.
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buffalo. he continues to make use of every one he has. rosario dawson introduced him this afternoon and stomped for him in the south bronx. spike lee, brooklyn native who produced an ad for bernie sanders. hillary clinton has the backing of some of the most prominent politicians in the state like representative jeffreys who joined her in brooklyn on saturday. the mayor of new york city appeared to take his time in endorsing clinton despite serving as her campaign manager 16 years ago. the slow march was an awkward skit over the weekend that's gotten a lot of attention. >> i have to say thanks for the endorsement, bill. took you long enough. >> oh, snap.
>> sorry, hillary. i was running on cp time. >> i don't like jokes like that. >> cautious politician time. >> okay. >> i've been there. >> joining me new york city mayor who said let's be clear. in an evening of satirsatire, o the hmayor was only to be offended. i cringed and a lot of people cringed. obviously cp time is people of color time. why not just apologize. why not say we shouldn't have done the joke? >> it's satire. i was mocking myself. i take full responsibility.
someone else wrote the script but i approved it. i think sometimes there's place for satire in this world. that's what this was. >> if you had to do it over again, would you do it? >> i'm pretty comfortable to it. it was meant to be a joke on the way we speak. it was not meant to offend anyone. it was part of a show filled with satire makie ining fun of elected officials. you have to put it in the context in the evening. >> this is the same event rudy giuliani was dressed in drag. >> it's not the every day moment. >> i want to ask you about money and politics. there are two donors that's been investigated by the u.s. attorney. >> we understand they being investigated. >> there are reports. you said you are confident they didn't get any favors. i wanted to ask you about this
quote. until we get money out of political system, of course we're going to turn to people for donations big and small. my question is it seems like the clinton campaign and you are trying to hold two ideas. one is money has undue influence and we need a systemic influence and in this particular case of me, money doesn't have influence. >> i don't agree with that. there's something disingenious about having a set of rules. i concerned myself about the problem of a free enterprise system. donations have been considered free speech by the supreme court. that was super charged and put on steroids on the citizens united case. these are the rules of the game which means everyone has an opportunity to go out and get those donations and use them for the campaigns to get their message out.
if they don't, in many cases they won't get their message out. knowing that reality, you have to have your own set of standards. my standards is i think i will do what's in the interest no matter who gave the money. one day i'd like to see us end the practice of private donation. we would have a fully public finance system and a short campaign window as is true in some european country. they say, i don't vote some way because a donor asked me to. we all have a sense it does influence. i don't understand how row can make the case the system needs reform. >> i understand the logic. the problem i have is if someone has a message to get out and i'm a progressive and change agent,
i think i've proven that. to win, i have to get a message out. requires recourses in new york. real strict campaign limits but you still need to get the resources together and get your message out. hold very high standards for yourself. it becomes very subjective. you and i both know some people done a great job and some people haven't. in the end, it is the system we're working. if there was free air time or any alternative way to get the message out, that's a real interesting discussion. >> it's been striking to watch in new york city. so used to this primary system. all the stuff we're used with like the corn dogs and snow
covered barns and now it's like junior's cheesecake. are there issues that are really important to big that live in big cities like new york that you feel are not getting enough in the presidential camp. >> i think they are getting attention maybe not explicitly as an urban agenda. greater investments by the federal government and infrastructure in public education and affordable housing. that would be the simplest way to boil down. a call for greating taxes for the wealthy that will fund these. breaking out of this pattern, this reaganite pattern that we have lived in for 30 years and acknowledging that we're going to have to tax the wealthy in a different way if we're going to have a federal government that invests. the cities are more central to
our economy than they have been in decades. they are the focal point of the american economy more and more in a globalized world. i'm thrilled the democrats are talking about taxing the wealthy. i think she will win the general election and get this done. i want to see more and more discussion of the specific investments. i would say she's talked a lot ant the kind of targeted investments that will be needed to help young people, for example. she's talked about infrastructure. >> final question on super delegates which have been a controversial. you're not a super delegate but elected to be one, is that my understanding? >> there's a new york state convention that will choose a certain number of delegates. it's not traditional super delegate because it's voted on by convention. >> if you had magic wand, would
you get rid of super delegates? >> i would say it differently. i would say they are legitimate because the people elected to something big. they have a big constituency. i think there's a valid question going forward. what's the best way to encourage maximum participation. we have a system that's hemorrhaging voters. voter involvement has declined. we've got to figure out a series of reforms. that has issues for how we go about the party process. >> we have three primaries this year that's insane. thank you for making the time. >> thank you. still come, john kasich is fourth out of three candidates. what is john kasich thinking? we'll look at that ahead. when a moment turns romantic why pause to take a pill?
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the actual imitating a scene from the same joe. watch this interview in which joe biden gets a little too close to endorsement for the comfort of his staff. >> this country is ready for a woman. >> would you like to see us elect a woman? >> i would like to see a woman. >> that's it. >> it's all right. i'm not getting into that. >> i'd like to ask one more question. >> the president and i will not
endorse because when we ran said let the party decide. gosh, almighty, they are both qualified. hillary is overwhelmingly qualified to be president. >> right after that, gary runs in and trips over a coffee table. >> he was interrupted not because he stepped in by seeming to endorse hillary clinton but because it reached its agreed time limit which is the claim made on "veep" who interrupt add live interview. interesting. coming up, which trump vice presidential pick should get interrupted during live interviews. i'll tell you and show you why, ahead. your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller.
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there's a great quote attributed to woody allen that live is just showing up. kasich has fewer delegates than rubio who suspended his campaign last month. he has won just one state in the 30-plus contest thus far. his home state of ohio where he's in his second term of governor. john kasich is in the final three because he hasn't bothered to drop out. in all fairness, he keeps campaigning with vigor, even eating so much food at a deli last week that he got the meat
sweats as we chronicled. he said he's the one candidate voters should turn to in a conte contested. >> because i don't get into the mud and call names, people are finally starting to hear my message. i'm the only one that consistently beats hillary clinton. i beat her decisively. >> today he gave a speech describing the other two candidates as path to darkness. >> we've had for proposals to create a religious test for immigration and target neighborhoods for surveillance. to deport 11.5 million people. i say to you this path to darkness is the antist sis of all that america has meant for 240 years. >> he's made a point of saying he's not interested in being vice president which prompts the question why is he still in the race? joining me betsy woodroof.
what's your sense of the answer to that question? >> i think kasich is betting on everyone really, really, really hating donald trump and ted cruz which is not an unsaved bet given their unfavorability numbers now. from following kasich in ohio when i tracked his one successful lek night, it seems like the fact he's being in the race isn't stressing him out that much. his demeanor and mood strikes me as the demeanor different from jeb bush. kasich knows he's a long shot. he knows nobody is betting hard he will win and he's having fun and seeing what happens and trying not to sweat meat. things could with worse for him. >> he literally has nothing to lose. he's in his second term as governor of ohio. he's not running a campaign that's super expensive.
he can hang around. i guess the bet is by the time july in cleveland comes, cruz and trump have alienated such massive parts of the party that the convention decides the give it to the third place guy. >> exactly. maybe that's kind of a safe bet to make. it's been a crazy enough election cycle. he can position himself as the voice of sanity. some of the hand outs on the stump look like church tracts. >> it's also interesting to me because he's positioning himself, his record in ohio on certain things have been quiet extreme on abortion. he's been probably one of the
most zealously antiabortion rights governors. he's also per sued austerity politics in his first term. that could be quite brutal in terms of the cut. he's the nonpath to darkness. almost daytime, talk show host, give me your feelings candidate in this race. >> without a doubt. i think the abortion point is interesting. the reality is it's not something he's actively emphasized. even though on paper he's done more to stop women from getting abortions. he's done more to make it difficult for a woman to get abortions than anybody else running. trump has done anything actionable. cruz can't point to any election that's changed the laws work, but kasich has. the fact he's not using that as a political football. he's not using it to court conservative republican primary voters who should like that he's done that, indicates he really,
really want to be the moderate guy. i've heard some prominent republican operatives who didn't want to go on the record to speculate if kasich were the vice presidential nominee, you'd have an ankle monitor where he could only stay in ohio, michigan and wisconsin and his job is to lock up the midwest and not worry about anything else and on paper it's no t tt worst strategy in the world. >> i think he recognizes his abortion politics would be much more tragic in a general election. i think that's going to be what he leads with. if kasich go into that convention where he's the only one still, ten weeks from now or 12 weeks, so long, beating hillary head to head or bernie sanders head to head depending on the nominee, that's going to be a pretty strong argument. >> it's totally compelling. if you're the only person that can stand up in the polls, that's a big deal. the elephant in the room is the
fact based on the rnc rules as they are written, kasich might not be able to have his name read in. i was looking at the history. the current rule says you have to have a majority of delegates in eight states. it hasn't been since before the 1960s when the thresholds was low enough that kasich would need it. in the 1960s there was no rule about having majority of delegates. it would be really hard. >> thank you very
much. coming up, what was once tout as a major success for bill clinton is becoming a problem for hillary clinton. i take these out...
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apologetic. >> are you a trump supporter? >> yeah. >> what do you like about him in. >> all that bleep. i'll snatch anybody up if they're going to yell in my face over anything. >> just for the record and it's kind of heard to hear. the protester was not violating the man's personal space. it was the trump supporter who approached him and got in face of the protester, not the other way around. but, you think that guy is a poor spokesman for donald trump. wait until you see what one of his own surrogates has been saying. i'll show you in 60 seconds. ♪
having mocked all of them on the campaign trail. he said he laughed. i haven't even fathom that. it's almost breathtaking i was listed in first place. not listed were two former presidential candidates turned prominent surrogate, chris christie and ben carson. in carson's case it seems trump has a reason to leave him out. behold a man in theory, who is attempting to convince people to vote for donald trump. >> trump has horrible numbers but they vote for him. even if donald trump turns out to be such a not great president, which i don't think is the case. i think he will surround himself with really good people but if he didn't, we're only looking at four years. >> why would you align yourself with that? >> you have to look at the good and the bad. there's no perfect person. it's not really about me. if it were about me, i would be outraged. i would say no way can i support this. does it mean he's perfect?
no. he has some major defects. there's no question about it. are there better people? probably. is there another scenario i would have preferred? yes, but it isn't available. >> with one of the other candidates, you mean? >> yes. >> you say there probably are better people out there, did you have someone this mind? >> i don't think that's a useful place to go. if you take multiple medications, a dry mouth can be a common side effect. that's why there's biotene. it comes in oral rinse, spray or gel,
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last night bill o'reilly and donald trump had a conversation about the possibility of trump making end roads with some of the voters among which he's polling quite poorly. chief among them, african-american, 87% of whom have a negative view of him. despite the staggering figure, trump has said the african-americans love me because they know i'm going to bring back jobs. last night trump continued that
line of reasoning to convince bill o'reilly that he could help them with jobs. bill wants to make sure viewers heard his concerns with that plan. >> how are you going to get jobs for them? many of them are ill educated and have tattoos on their foreheads. i hate to be generalized about it, but it's true. if you look at all the the educational statistics, how are you going to give jobs to people who aren't qualified for jobs. >> i have no clue who he has met with forehead tattoo. i've never met anyone of any race with forehead tattoo. it was where he was the lease offensive participant. he made his arguments on the way to baseball games. >> we go through harlem. it's more challenging for a poor child in harlem without parental guidance in a school that's falling apart than a white kid out in garden city. you say you can bring jobs back
but if the kid can't qualified to do the job, you get to get into the infrastructure of the african-american community. in the racial politics have been fascinating and not just on the republican side where we have seen all sorts of bigotry and racialized language. the democratic primary where a brutal fight has broken out around the party's role in creating largest prison population. we will debate that, next.
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this week, bill clinton the almost bill clinton apology tour for his support for a 1995 crime bill continues. after arguing black lives matter activist, he expressed some regret about his comments. >> the only thing i wish i had said is yes, there's too many people in jail. yes, a small percentage of them are in the federal prison and hillary was the first person in this campaign in either party to say we should reduce the prison population. we can't let people without education, training and the guarantee they won't be denied the right to a job when they get out. i feel good about it. >> hillary clinton also defended parts of that crime bill saying it's important to remember the context of the time it was passed. >> you got to put this in a broader context. there were a lot of things about
the crime bill that 100,000 police force increased. the violence against women provisions. the assault weapons band that's part of the package. the brady bill that was part of the package. there was a lot that was put into place that contributed to the decline this crime that we are enjoying today. thank goodness because it's keeping a lot of people alive, uninjured and communities safer. >> bernie sanners demanded an apology to bill clinton for his defense of his wife's use of the phrase super predator in 1996. >> we all know what that term meant in the context it was said years ago. we know who they were talking about. >> black people. >> that's exactly right. that's who it was. i think that the president owes the american people an apology
for trying to defend what is indefensible. >> joining me is a democratic member of the new york city council. let me start with you because you were there. what is your reaction to this debate about the status of the 1994 crime bill? >> just to remember what was going on in that moment is he was being confronted by a protester on behalf of the black lives matter movement. i started thinking about the authenticity of that protest. i think the larger voice being articulated is our criminal justice policies have, over decades, been a source of injustice to the african-american community. i think we start by recognizing the validity of the black live
matter point of view. the '94 crime act is not major contributor to mass incarceration because it came after the build up of prisons. it was started in 1972. it captured a mood in the country that had been in place for 20 years where we had through legislation intentionally increased the number of people in prison. the '94 crime act added to that but it's not the source. >> federal prisoners are only 10% of the total and mass incarceration had really peaked. it didn't cause decline in crime. what's key to me is rhetoric. you can look at the effects of the bill and the politics that produced it that's part of the frustration and anger. >> up with of -- one of my
hesitations is with the clintons there's a concern in totality. not just the '94 crime bill even if it didn't cause it, if the president was elected not to talk in this manner from a democratic point of view that could free up people to make policies but also whether it's the welfare act, whether it's ta taking education out of prison. we see package of where we're doing this lock them up, tough on crime with law enforcement point of view. what we really need was other services to these communities. >> it's interesting, i was just reading this james foreman has a book and he talks about this a little bit. one of the things is it wasn't
just racist white people or southern jim crow voted for this. you had black mayors and clergy members saying we need more cops and endorsement. what do you make of that in. >> i think that's a totally misleading observation. what we had done is develop the notion that prison was the answer and then everybody bought into that answer. what we needed is much more sophisticated understanding that we have now but we had in the embryonic stage to respond to crime than just prison. american politics had developed a sort of monochromatic view of crime which is more prison is the answer. >> not just more prison but more punishment to get tougher. the language is very much like -- >> what we have supported is tough on crime always meant more jail as oppose ed to figuring o
what the problem is and serving the community with resources. >> the context is you had a huge amount of crime. you're someone who represents folks in an area. i imagine when crime goes up or when there's a bad crime in the area you represent, people are really freaked out about it. it's something people talk about at community meetings. it's out cry. it's front of mind for voters. what would it mean for you if you saw crime spike like that? >> it's important. i represent one of the areas with a lot of shootings in the city. unfortunately what we have been trained is we need more police on the ground. we need more police. >> do you hear that in.
>> of course. i know why they are doing that because they are trained to do that. it's to deal with an acute problem. we twheneed to figure out what' going on with crime. i am attracted to bernie sanders because i like the message he's been sending. >> do you think we have turned the page enough that we're at a point where we are expanding the range of options in which we talk about this? >> i think we should recognize there's a remarkable national consensus left and right, republican, democrat that we have too many people in prison. we have quadruple the rate incarceration. let's bring it down.
>> we'll see how that plays out in the general election which i'm very curious about. we'll see if some of those really bad, ugly politics come back. great conversation. thank you. rachel maddow starts now. >> good evening. thanks. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. jeb bush says he's not going to the republican national convention this year. if there's one last republican somewhere in country who was hoping that jeb bush would get drafted off the bleachers and brought in to save the party, it's going to be a little more complicated because jeb bush will not be in the room when the decision happens. he told cnn he's not going to attend the rnc. there's stories about how prom innocent republicans will skip the convention this summer because it's a fore gone