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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  April 12, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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battle in new york between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, the one we're billing the battle for broadway. clinton is looking at a big win in her adopted state here, which she represented for eight years as a u.s. senator, a skunking of bernie would make her path to the convention. the politics, upset in new york, would rise giant doubts, enough to keep the brawl alive until philly. sanders s sd that he will win a major victory here in the state. >> we will win a major victory here in new york next tuesday. we win when the voter turnout is high. we lose when the voter turnout is low. let us have the highest voter turnout in democratic primary history in new york. >>e is something.
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any way, while polls show hillary clinton with a double digit lead here in the state, she is intensifying her attacks on sanders. with just a week to go, taking nothing for granted. i'm joined by joy reed,, tad devine, the senior advisor. are you older than him, to the sanders campaign, and msnbc, howard dean, and a big hillary clinton supporter. any way, i'm a going to ask about the prediction. >> i love his optimism. >> he set the bar. she's double digits. he said he is going to win here. >> right. i think he said he was going to win every state we've been insofar. >> you're taking the edge off. >> this is her home state. she is ahead. independents can't vote in the primary here. there is a lot of factors. >> what did he mean he'll win here? >> he believes, and agree with him, if we can mobilize an electorate, particularly a young electorate, we have a shot of winning.
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>> have you been able to do that before, increase the turnout? fair enough, the political revolution, but the overall turnout has not gone up. >> chris, it was 18%, 65 plus. >> the turnout has not gone up. >> it went up nor 18 to 29 year olds. >> okay, okay, is that a conditional claim by him? >> well, no. >> he said he'll win new york is turnout is beyond normal expectations. >> i'll tell you one thing bernie doesn't do. spin. >> you're the spinner. he made a clear statement. speaking on gun violence yesterday, hillary clinton called out bernie sanders on his record for gun control, the firearmssesed in violent crimes in new york. that's a strong charge, saying that's where the arsenal is for the killing in the streets of new york. let's look at what she said. >> when challenged on his gun
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stances, he frequently says, well, you know, i represent vermont. it's a small, rural state. we have no gun laws. here is what i want you to know. most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in new york come from out of state. and the state that has the eyest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in new york come from vermont. >> well, the sanders campaign release aid statement that turned hillary's words against the governor, who is backing hillary clinton. quote, i don't know why secretary clinton would be so critical of the governor of vermont who strongly supports her candidacy. what governor shumlin said is true. in the campaign season, therefore, things are said by all the candidates that aren't entirerely accurate.
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i would just say this. i think you've had a hard time convincing vermonters that new york crime problems are coming from vermont. any way, a fact checker says the smalll population skews the numbers that clinton is using there. we do not find it as a fair assessment into new york. the difference between this point using per capita calculations and the raw number is so stark that it creates a significantly misleading impression to the public. tad, do you want to back that up. >> you better believe it. listen, over 4,500 guns in that reference that she made. 55 of them came from vermont. >> used in violent crimes. most of them were the crime was possession of a firearm, okay. we can't tell whether any was used in a murder. it's terribly misleading. if you've got a candidate whose problem is problem is credibility -- >> governor dean, did you feel
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you were the arsenal of criminology or crime in new york city? did you feel that your state was feeding guns down across the nonorthern border. >> well, they do, actually. we do. except that it's misleading in the sense that while we are the highest per capita exporter of guns, that's because vermont is so small, but bernie's reall problems is the ability to sue gun companies. what he needs to apologize for that, hillary had to apologize for iraq. if i were bernie's campaign, i would stop talking about guns. that does not help bernie in new england and northeastern primaries. >> question to both of you. is vermont significantly responsible for the crime rate in new york city? >> no, not at all. >> governor howard dean, is vermont significantly responsible for the crime in new york used by guns with the use of guns. >> it is not the largest exporter, but there are a significant amount of guns
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bought in new york. there is a lot more guns have virginia, for example, that are illegally purchased that end up in new york. but again, i don't think this is an article about semantics. here is the other problem. i got eight endorsements in a row from the nra. i got off the nra after newtown, after the speech this is all fine and good, we're not going give up our right to bear arms. i concluded the national rifle association did not represent thoughtful gun owners, and they'v become a right wing extremist group. that's when i left the nra. if you're going to run for national office, you probably have to do that. >> catholic guilt, jewish guilt, my friends tell me about, this s this vermont guilt we're being
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accused of here. >> that's going to be a har tash. >> has hillary overstepped here, your objective, yes or no. >> somebody is hashtaging vermont guilt right this instant. the dangers of talking around an attack, right. >> help me out here. is she overstating the charge. overcharging ver month as the source of the gun battles, crimes down in new york. very healthy compared to what it was 20, 30 years ago. >> sure. >> but to an extent, to what extent is vermont and its gun, lacks gun laws responsible for the new york city violence. >> very little. there aren't enough humans, if they all started exporting. >> 50 guns, right. >> there aren't a lot of people there. she is overstating it. >> is this where the campaign is headed? is that an attempt for hillary, to find someplace that she could
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be the left of him, so she doesn't have to attack him for being too left, which we'll get to in the polls. that's not healthy for her in the long run. >> it's not attacking from the left. what you'r s seeing that they've tied themselves in. the clinton campaign at large does not want to directly personally attack bernie sanders. >> right. not on the philosophy. >> not on the philosophy, because of the risk of alienating the young voters that your campaig is doing such a great job at. even on issues where she has some advantage, and even tad would a admit that on the issue for gun manufactures, he thinks they don't want to go at him directly and personally, because the blow back against hillary clinton is so severe, that they're trying to find ways to dance around and still attack him in these sort of side glancing ways. that doesn't work i politics. if you're going to attack bernie sanders on his policies on guns, you have to do it. >> go back to governor dean. governor dean, bernie sanders
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has used the phrase pack with the devil, sold her soul. >> that was weaver. >> her chief campaign manager. is that what you have to do in vermont? the way bernie sold this, you can't blame me -- >> no, i don't know if bernie really s said that, i don't thin he is that kind of politician. here is the deal. in vermont, most nra members, they don't think you need a bazooka to kill a deer. the local people get us. we understand hunting. it's true. we don't have any gun laws. when you get to national politics, the gun lobbys a group of lunatics. it's outrageous. >> what's the biggest mammal you've ever killed. >> i don't know. probably a duck or something.
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i don't know. >> that's a great answer. the latest m marist poll, the primary voters find that some sanders supporters will not elect hillary clinton. 30% who support sanders will not support clinton in november if she is the democratic nominee. while 15% of those who support clinton now said they will not support sanders in november if he is the nominee. 30 is fairly high. a lot of pumas in the last election coming over. tad. will your people make an adjustment? >> i don't think it will come to that. i think we're goingo win. i don't think 2016 is any where near where 2008 was. >> in terms of vitreal. >> we can't afford to have trump or cruz. >> you just take the clinch. >> tad, i've got to tell you this, i was talking to voters all day in the bronx.
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there is a different level of distaste for hillary clinton among bernie sanders suorters.. >> a sanders supporter said they'll vote for had i willry in the primary. >> he didn't think sanders would win. i only found one person of each that wouldn't vote for the other. most people we talked to said we're fi. >> would they go to trump? >> no oh. except the bernie people. i did find people that did like trump, if they're democrats, they would vote for bernie. a risk to the vitreal in new york? >> i'm certainly planning on bernie if hillary doesn't win. obviously hillary will win. the two of them are so different and much better than anybody on the other side. second of all, i would argue that for both of these candidates, these are great numbers. right now, we're at the most bitter part of the campaign or close to it. we're getting close to the end. everybody is exhausted,
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competitive. i had to really work hard to get my people touppoport kerry. it took a month after i dropped out. so i actually -- >> did you vote for kerry? >> of course i voted for kerry. i asked all my supporters to vote for kerry, too. i waited for a month so they could calmowown after all that. >> how hard is to vote for -- >> it's easier for the candidate than it is for the supporters. >> wow. last word, tad. >> dean being endorsed by the nra, he has a d minus lifetime rate sgrg -- rating? >> he may not have been endorsed. >> he was. >> he was initially. >> in 1990, after they defeated him in '88. >> then he changed his positions. >> he was still against the assault weapon ban and his republican opponent lied about it.
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>> thank you. i don't get it up there. it's beautiful. i love burlington, by the way. howard, governor dean, i love your honesty. joy reed. 've got a special guest on thursday. i'm going to host a town hall on long island, pronounce it any way you want, for ohio governor, jericho, new york. we're going to be with him for an hour. 7:00 eastern time ask these people for hillary or bernie, if it's kasich on the other side. some of them might jump the fence. another big one at 8:00 p.m., texas senator ted cruz up in buffalo. i don't envy him.m. that will be buffalo meets cruz. it is a big night for politics on msnbc. coming up, donald trump versus the rnc, republican front-runner claiming the voting system is rigged. and now reice priebus is coming out to defend the rules. paul ryan comes out to say he is
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not the party's white knight, telling supporters count me out. we'll see. also, john kasich stands alone. heays s he is running against the darkness. i'm going to speak to supporters. montell williams, having a chance in cleveland. the round table will talk about the convention. home of fearless reporters, and take no prisoners tabloids. bill clinton on the campaign trail, watching him in action. this is "hardball," the place for politics. when a moment turns romantic why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain,
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or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card. in philadelphia, before the phillys took the field. heroic police officer jesse hartnett shot three times in an isis inspired ambush threw out the first pitch before the game. it was a double dip of good
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vibes as hartnett had an engagement ring and proposed to his girlfriend right near home plate. she said, of course, she said yes. we'll be right back. for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. (announcer) over 400,000 businesses have already used ziprecruiter. and now you can use ziprecruiter for free. go to
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welcome back to "hardball." here is a roundup of what's happened in the republican race today. just today. speaker paul ryan, the best hope being a white knight for many in the establishment said he would not accept the republican nomination. john kasich, the third man in the race actually running, called out what he calls the path of darkness, offered by donald trump and ted cruz. it sounds like he is not going to follow those guys. front-runner called it corrupt and a scam. >> republican system is absolutely rigged.
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it a phony deal. these are dirty striction e trick administers. -- tricksters. they should be ashamed of themselves. the rules are no good when they don't count their vote. what they don't like in colorado, the rules are no good, when you have to play dirty tricks in order to pick up delegates. the party is playing dirty. we have to show our republican party, you've been disenfranchised, everybody has. you've got to show the republican party that they can't get away with this stuff any longer. >> interesting tactic, he is basically saying if he doesn't get the nomination, it's dishty. earlier, reince priebus tweeted rules were set last year, nothing mysterious, nothing new. the rules have not changed. they're not changed. joining me now, the man who used to have that job, michael steel,
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and robert costa, national political reporter for the "washington post." gentlemen, the news is out tonight that the daily news is endorsing hillary clinton. it's going to happen, the front cover in a minute. but michael, let's get to this point. trump has a pretty good argument, popular vote should decide the nominee. the guy who gets -- the person who gets the most votes should behe nominee. the counter point by the inside guys is well, we have rules that allow people to get picked by conventions and caucuses and they can also be picked who are not bound to anybody. they could make up theirir own mind. >> sure. >> democracy is a pretty good sell in this country. >> it is a very good sell. it's a very good argument for trump to make. it's a very difficult argument for the establishment types, the
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chairman and others t defend, because i mean, people think, i went to the polls. i voted. i stood in line in the primary. i sat in a room for three hours at a caucus, and i voted. what do you mean you now can -- you can dilute, you know, on a best case scenario, dilute my vote and in the case of colorado, no the even include me in the process of voting. what do you mean by that? so trump has got a good argument. but the rules are the rules. they've been -- >> i know. >> as the chairman said. here is the problem. we know the rules can be changed. that's what a lot of people also know and realize, as thesaw in 2012, what happened to ron paul, when they changed the rules there to prevent him frorom getting nominated from the floor. so there is no confidence in the system when they have already seen actions taken by those to block out people they don't like or don't want to get the nomination. >> well, guys, two big things happened today, despite the fact that daily news is endorsing hillary. ryan wanted to put to rest once and for all that he would emerge as the nominee for president. >> let me be clear.
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i do not want, nor will i accept the nomination for our party. so let me speak directly to the delegates on this. if no candidate has a majority in the first ballot, i believe that you should only choose from a person who has actually participated in the primary. count me out. the rules committee, which is assembled by the delegates will decide what the rules are. i would encourara those delegates to put in place a rule that says you can only nominate somebody who actually ran for the job. >> you know, i think a couple of things came from that. check me on this, guys. starting with robert. if he really took himself out and i think he did just then, that reduces thehe numbers of possible candidates multiple choice to three. the three that are still running. i don't think he meant jim gilmore, somebody that dropped out six months ago. he means the active candidates, i believe. so if it's just three of them, that makes the case for trump. the only argument that puts somebody else in there besides trump would be somebody who
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didn't compete but offers real party unity, somebody who could come aboard like a ryan and truly unite the party under a whole new dispensatioif you will. something new, a different way of looking at it. you couldn't decide among the candidates running. it seems to me it makes trump's situation much easier to argue. your thoughts, robert? >> people don't like to call this a brokered convention. contested convention, but ryan did not rule out someone like scott walker, marco rubio trying to broker at a convention. >> you mean to win? to win? walker b the nominee? he got blown out in the contest. he was rejected. >> agreed. he left early. it's more someone like rubio, who has accumulated delegates, who could be a player. not so much about rising, but
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shaping the out come of the contest and what happens on a second ballot. >> look, i saw the article the other day, nothing wrong with this, back in no staff around, coming up from florida to go vote in the senate. rubio is out of the game right now. he i inot going to be in cleveland with a big gang of delegate grabbers. you have to are a campaign to run, don't you? michael, you tell me. don't you have to have i campaign, active campaign to win the nomination, even at the convention? >> i think a aolutely right about that. you cannot walk into the convention, even if off he got 150 delegates like marco rubio and think you're going to compete with someone like ted cruz who is the master of organization or donald trump, who is sitting probably 60, 70 delegates away from the nominating number. so you're right. you've got to put together the campaign. a lot of people thought, chris,
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that's what ryan was doing when he said a couple of days ago about having this parallel message to the convention and all of that. now, having takak himself out of it, i think you're more correct than not, that he is saying to the delegates, you're only going to deal with the three people who walk into that convention, who are run the complete race. >> let's take a look athat donald trump said about hillary clinton. in the same way that the democrats, hillary and sanders are saying, you think we're bad. look, the real challenge is to take on the other party. so different than us. any way, donald trump slammed hillary clinton in the same way, the other side, saying, catch this, her whole life, her life, has been a lie. let's listen to this. >> i don't think the e-mails will take her down, because s sh is being protected by the democrats. it would take anybody else down, but it's not going to take her down, because she is being protected by the democrats, which is a disgrace. but she is going to have to live with that when she ruruns, becau everybody knows that she is guilty as hell, okay. everybody. her whole life has been a big fat beautiful lie. it's been a terrible, terrible lie.
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everything about her is a lie. >> you know, this is the kind of stuff that goes on, michael and robert, in developing countries, where zimbabwe, the election is rigged, if i lose, it's gged.. if i win, i put the other person in jail. bhuto gets hanged. third world countries need a break. we don't need this crap. he say hillary's whole life is a life. what did he mean by that? michael? >> you know, chris, i have to say, it's early branding. it is. i was talking with someone. >> this is trade craft? >> i was talking about negative ads in the general campaign and my response was, donald trump will not have to run negative tv ads. that is an -- that branding, right there, will catch on and just like we saw with little marco and lyin' ted, et cetera, he has an ability to brand his opponent without having to go through the traditional modes an
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means to do that, running 30 seconds ads, talking on his behalf. in that sound bite, you're beginning to see the difficulty that i think hillary clinton is going to have in a fall campaign against the donald trump. because what is she going to do? spending a lot of time defending against that, as much as she is trying to go on the attack against him. >> robert, quickly, it's a closle attack oh to say a person is -- working a documentary we'll have this weekend. there is a lot about her life that is consistent. she is a methodist, his behavior, we know what it is. she is consistently loyal. she is a democratic without hyphenated democratic. she is pretty traditionally a moderate democratic. her life makes sense to me. i don't understand the lie thing. >> trump's ability to politically blugen, if it continues at this kind of pace,
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and at this kind of rhetoric, it could have consequences down the ballot and create a tenor and tone for the campaign that at first, gets everyone excited on the republican and then becomes drastically divisive day after day. >> it's one thing bernie sanders campaign manager says she sold her soul to the devil. this is frightening. up next, john kasich says he is up against -- he is doing it again. the darkness of his rivals, trump and cruz. kasich supporter montel williams coming here with a case for the ohio governor, the third man. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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to pass, one choice, the
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path that exploits anger, encourages resentment. turns fear into hatred. divides people. this path solves nothing. it demeans our history, weakens our country and cheapens each one of us. it has but one beneficiary. that is to the politician who speaks of it. >> that's john kasich. welcome back to "hardball." that was governor john kasich today, warning the republican party faces. he cautioned voters about a path to darkness. he never mentioned his rivals by name, they were clearly the focus of what he said. criticizesed proposals for immigration, monitor neighbors to deport 11 people people and riing upup trade agreements and laws here at home. kasich called out the gloomy and angry rhetoric used by trump. >> we have been told that because of all this change,
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america has become dark. that we have sucombed and no longer in charge. we're even told that foreign governments are actually controlling our destiny. because they have become smarter than usus, and tougher than us. some who feed off of the fears and the anger that is felt by some of us, and exploited, feed their own desires for fame or attention. that could drive america down into a ditch and not make us great again. >> well, on thursday, john kasich will be my guest at a special town hall on long island, new york. that's coming up two days from now. joining me tonight, a kasich supporter, montel williams. thank you for joining me. >> i have a speech in dallas. i would be there with you on thursday, because i think it's that important. yes, sir. >> let's talk about this guy. it's late in the ra. it's the last month or two.
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he is talking about the high road. trump talks nationalism. he doesn't talk the values of this country. he doesn't talk about the values of bring me your tired, your wounded, your sick, none of that, you know. he doesn't talk about freedom of speech or freedom ofreligion. he talks about tough nationalism. that sounds good to a lot of working guys. i've been shoved around a lot. trump comes along and says this country has been shoved around. it's not your fault. it sells. >> how about all the same people that feel they've been shoved around, their children go to school, one nation under god, in indivisibl, we have two candidates that are running in the republican party. that literally almost said in its essence, republican party of lincoln is not the party of divisiveness. we have two people running for office and donald trump being the lead one.
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trying to divide america, thinking that this will make america great again. remember, the only person in this entire race, i'm been saying this for seven months, the adult has been john kasich. he is the only person looking ahead to america, after november 2nd. after the vote. when we all have to remember -- >> okay, you're here. how does he get to be president? >> he gets to be president, because like we all know, there is going to be a ctetested convention. there is not going to be a 1,237 for anybody. therefore, when we get there, go back to 1924, the democrats did 103 rounds of voting before they picked a candidate. there could -- >> they picked a loloser, though >> well, let's think in terms of lincoln. lincoln was picked on the third round. very easily, and i'm not trying to suggest to governor kasich that he prematurely select his running mate, but i'll tell you right now, you throw john kasich and marco rubio, all bets are off. i don't care what any pundit has to say. he hasas the best chance of
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beating hillary clinton. >> kasich said he would not accept the role of running mate. let's watch that. >> donald trump says he would consider picking you as his vice-president den shall candidate. would you run with him. >> zero chance. >> what if that's the best chance for the party. >> zero chance. i'm running for president of the united states, and that's it. >> do you think that's it. >> i think that's a fact. >> why would he turn down the chance because of trump? trump is a crap shoot. anybody can win a general election, depending oh be what happens to hillary. hillary is the favorite, unless something happens with the e-mails. >> the position of the vice-p-psidents we've had the last three or four. why would you second fiddle who is opposed to everything you stand for. >> was chaney second fiddle? well, i think -- >> he was calling the shots. that's a terrible example, but i
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think he was. >> john kasich stands for america that is united. >> i'm so glad you came on. i'm so glad people make this case. there has got to be -- there has to be a counter part to what trump is selling. >> if they go up online today, listen to john kasich's speech this morning, i think most people would understand that we've got the person that -- >> i always say this about kasich. he is who he is. >> yes, sir. >> no fraud. i've watched that guy for 40 years. that's the guy i've known for 40 years. up next, we've got a new york round table coming here tonight, the candidates focus on the primary one week out now. the tabloid, the new york daily news from tomorrow, endorsing hillary clinton for president. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
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welcome back to "hardball." no surprise donald trump is a big lead in his home state of new york, where a week from today, he hopes to make up for his loss in wisconsin. "the new york times" yesterday pointed out yet anotherer reason
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why trump enjoys a home field ativan taenl here. the new york tabloids, mr. trump is reyou nates with the president corps he knows best, a culture that spawned and nurtured the personality known -- now known worldwide. any way, asked for comment, trump's campaign told the times that the tabloids never stop. one thing i will say with great certainty, they are far more honorable than the political press. 'll see what that means. aside from their sensational headlines, which have been many, the headlines have had a big influence on 2016. a recent example was bernie sanders interview with the new york daily news, which the "washington post" said was pretty close to a disaster. that sounds like larry david. any ways, they made a splash with this cover, late today, the daily news, as i said, look at one l, over bernie, saying quote, clinton's proposals are shaped for the world in which we live, not the world in which we might wish to live.
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i guess they're knocking bernie's socialism. i'm joined by tina brown, tina brown live media. harold ford, former democratic congressman from tennessee, and kate brower, white house correspondent, out with yet another great new book, "first women, the grace and power of america's first ladies," which let me ask you about the power of the tabs. even sophisticated like yourself, walter shapiro said you can't just start with the times in the morning. it's too much. congested with ideas. you've got to start with the post. you get your revving up and then a lot of smart business people, business women and cultural leaders read the daily news and the post.
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>> absolutely. i do. i read the -- >> why would you read something that is clearly not true. >> i just pick them up and i think -- >> but it's not reliable. >> it doesn't matter. it's part of coffee. >> what do you think if the post, the new york post, do you think that's murdock talking, or who do you think is talk sng. >> it's all part of the cartoon of being in new york city. it's part of the rough and tumble. the brashness. you don't absorb it and really take it into account seriously but for the 20 seconds when you're reading the story, it's what you need to wake you up. the post likes trump, the daily news is democratic, endorsing hillary today, tomorrow morning. they've taken sides. like the old days of journalism. >> they've taken them on numerous times, but what really hurt cruz is when he challenge dollars and attacked new york
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values. if there is anything in the morning, it wants to be the morning snapshot of new york values. you pick that up and i would agree with tina's assessment, you have read it with coffee, where everou l live in the city, at that moment, that's the theme, the quote of the day. and donald trump has realized, he caught it at the right time. cruz has made terrible comments about the city. >> he has the post. >> he has the mood of the city on his side. >> the daily news -- >> it's almost like the guys, you know, go home. the headlines seem like they're leading the cheers of the people walking by. everybody walks to work eventually when you get to the city, train, whenever you get here, you have to walk up and down the street. you still have the new york k >> will you get a call from
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zuckerman for that? all that stuff goes on here. the new york post reported in a school from kate brower's book, michelle obama hoped vice-president joe biden with launch a w white house bid again hillary clinton. here is the quote from the first women, the name of the book, just out. the 2008 presidential campaign left deep and lasting scars on both the clinton and obama camp. one obama aide said michelle would have liked to see joe biden run against hillary clinton for the nomination. in response, officials for the first lady's office have said those assertions are false. of course, that's what she would say. >> i mean, i think that just look at what happened in 2008. >> you got the scoop. >> yeah, absolutely. there are, the obamas see the clintons as this political dynasty that came before them. i was told michelle obama looks down her nose at hillary
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clinton. >> i understand they don't want to be the clinton sandwich. i know that. >> yeah, yeah. >> but they need, don't they need hillary clinton to carry on the legacy? >> yeah, probably, yes. but they would have been happy if he had -- >> oh, if he had won. >> the obamas and bidens are very close. she was happy for -- >> is that a jill andichehelle collection. >> do you think michelle is voting for joe. >> i take the first lady at her word and i take her at her word. to your point, the president wants to see the legacy continue. i think if you would ask someone a year ago what mrs. clinton, the core of the campaign right now be defending the obama legacy as aggressively and as unapologetic as she is, that's probably not going to be the case in may. good for her. good f t this president. hopefully good for his legacy. >> that's a great picture of
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michelle. >> no love lost between the clintons and obamas, really. i think barack obama is so appalled probay atat what he sees on the republican side, he knows hillary is somebody who is pragmatic, and could protect the legacy. i don't think there is any love lost between obama and hillary. >> any way, the round table is staying with us. up next, these three geniuses will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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ted cruz at town hall. save it for chuck. i'll be back after the democratic debate. a big thursday night on msnbc. get your popcorn ready. we'll be right back.
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it's 2011 when rick perry, the governor began signing legislation that closed down more than half the abortion providers in the state. more than 100,000 women in texas have tried to self-abort. >> to what effect? >> sometimes it works. sometimes it doesn't. >> don't do it. >> it just shows you can't say exact cause and effect but you can say it's ugly. >> the greatest living rite writiter right now. >> one thing i learned is the new first lady comes for a tour. >> i know that.
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i've seen them on tv. >> during this tour, the new first lady will come into the second floor into first lady's dressing room and the out going lady will stand in front of a window and say if you look over here you'll see the oval office and this is where you can stand in the shadows watching your husband which is the bond they share. >> it's like keeping an eye on them or their relationship? >> both. >> thanks for joining us. thanks to our round table. kate's book, first women is available in the bookstores. when we return let me finish with bill clinton on the campaign trail today with the irish americans here on fifth avenue. you're watching hardball, the place for politics. this just got interesting. why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph,
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♪ you'll just have to miss it! ♪ yeah, you'll just have to miss it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. let me finish tonight with hillary clinton's most committed surrogate. i was up in new york to catch former president bill clinton. he spoke positively refusing to engage in the tit tat. in many ways he's the same president. he could have given 15 or 20 minutes of general remarks and people crowded into thehe room o fifth avenue would have been glad they came. he gave economic facts arguing we could have a stronger economic recovery with the right presidential leadership. here is of 1600, pennsylvania avenue. >> she's better qualified to be
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president this time than the time i ran. the world's in tough shape. one of the things that could stop us from rising together is the crisis around the world. i want somebody there that had to figure it out. i want somebody there that will instinctively know what to do. >> that's hardball for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in." >> count me out. >> paul ryan steps away from the trumpster fire. >> i believe you should only choose from a person who is actually participated in the primary. >> tonight, a big win for donald trump as he continues to cry foul. >> you know the system, folks is rigged.
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>> i'm not complaining about the states that i won. those are okay. >> where the stop trump movement new charges that the democratic race is rigged. >> when you talk about rigging the system, that's what senator sanders is trying to do now. >> hillary supporter and mayor of new york joins me live to talk about sande versus clinton and more. >> cautious politician time. i've been there. plus, what exactly is john kasich doing, and why the man who smacked a trump protester in the face is only the second worst surrogate in the world today. >> going to start yelling about some bleep. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening if new york. i'm chris hayes. amid increasing protests from donald trump, the fix is in to stop him from winning the


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