tv Morning Joe MSNBC April 13, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT
than any other brand. we're always re-thinking what's possible in skincare. that's just how we roll. neutrogena®. see what's possible. >> if no candidate has a majority on the first ballot, i believe you should only choose from a person who has actually participated in the primary. count me out. i simply believe that if you want to be the nominee for our party, to be the president you should actually run for it.
i chose not to do this, therefore i should not be considered. period. end of story. welcome to "morning joe." >> good morning, everyone. >> count me out. >> count me out. >> doggone it. >> yeah. sounded a little -- he's not gonna do it. so mark halperin, remember i told you how in the golden era of "new york times" reporting it was so much easier to write stories when people would, like, punch other people at trump events. that was easy, right. >> layout. >> seriously. and they always had a layout because trump was always out there. he's pulled back and since he's pulled back a bit -- >> they're stuck. >> they are stuck. so remember i told you they make up a new story everyday. like three days ago it was trump's foreign policy inconsistencies a proven obstacle to his nomination.
and the quote like barack obama making fun of him. they do a new one everyday. >> well, certainly not today. >> i know, because we're going to show some polls that show it's like big wheels keep on rolling. so this is the "new york times" headline today. "losing steam." i want us to pay attention to the first two words today, children. "losing steam, trump blames gop system." he's doing what we say would be a smart thing to do, to say the system's rigged. the system's rigged. now we turn to our daily ration of new york polls. >> and then we will introduce our guests. >> and remember the words, write them down in your grits if you're in the south. losing steam. >> through new polls show donald trump runningaway t away with t york primary. the quinnipiac poll shows him at 55%, the baruch poll shows him
at 60%. >> even though that poll shows him at 60%, i really think he's only what everyone else is saying, he's 20%? 30%. >> and the siena poll puts him at 50%. 23 points ahead of john kasich. >> losing steam, mark halperin? >> i know you're mocking the "new york times" but he does have a delegate problem. >> losing steam. okay. what's after that. >> after new york, five more states in the northeast and the new numbers. >> i'm sure the steam being let out of the pot -- >> this will show you. i haven't shown you the numbers yet. >> wilted in these states. >> new numbers had trump well ahead as well. trump is at 50% in connecticut. >> well, that doesn't sound like he's losing steam. >> kasich is at 26% and cruz is at 17% in connecticut.
and a new nbc 4/marist poll in maryland has trump with a 12-point lead over cruz 41% to 29%. john kasich at 24%. >> losing steam. >> yeah? can i -- i think you sum it up best in the "washington post." >> let's let other people talk because i'm a little shy. i'm a little shy right now. >> so with us we have the co-hosts of "with all due respect" mark halperin. columnist in for the "washington post," david ignatius. columnist in for bloomberg view, al hunt, and political reporter for the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst robert costa. >> robert costa, you report on the trail out there. obviously a big delegate battle right now going on but certainly trump, whose demise has been predicted in many quarters since oshkosh went for ted cruz is now losing steam pretty well in the northeast, rolling over everybody. >> i mean, the calendar favors
trump. northeast. you go to new york, he gets a bounce, he goes to pennsylvania perhaps. pennsylvania is a tough state for trump. the philadelphia suburbs, kasich has been doing well in some pennsylvania polls but generally speaking, based on my reporting talking to strategists, trump -- the northeast is better for trump. he got maryland, pennsylvania and new york. >> and the problem is, al, once you get out of the early states -- and this has always been the case, you just -- the pace picks up so quick ly. you spend so much money. then the northeast, this is where john mccain lock thinged down, it was more winner take all. but cruz and kasich and trump, they can't afford to spend the type of money on ads on these numbers. it's celebrity, it's name i.d., it's momentum and it seems to be helping him. >> well, right now advantage trump because he zrudoesn't havo spend that money. but, yes, april is the kindest
month for donald trump, less favorable in may, then you have june 7 -- >> california, that's massive. >> but he has to run up -- i go back to what mark said. he has to run up a big delegate advantage this month to be close to 1237. he has to win 85 delegates in new york, not 55 or 60, he has to sweep connecticut. he may well be able to do that based on those polls but it's not just winning, it's the size of the victories, particularly where you have winner take all. >> those look great but in the end i suspect we're all going to be looking at california which is pretty exciting because new york is relevant. after wisconsin, new york was relevant. but now i think even the trump people are admitting this is probably going to all come down to california. >> this is the best political story i can remember. >> incredible, isn't it? >> it rolls from key primary to even more key primary all the way to the convention. the one thing i have that to say to your question of whether trump is losing steam, you know, the steam calibrator is a little
bit cloudy for me, but the question is, is he on track to get 1237 delegates by july in cleveland? and right now people i trust like al hunt and mark halperin who know these numbers say it looks difficult. so if that's so, joe, the precise daily steam calibration is less important than what's going to happen at that convention. >> but here is, though, where the steam does make sense. if trump stumbles in, let's say, you know, ted cruz is stumbling in right now with a lot of third-place victories, cuts him off at the knees to be able to say "i am the only one who can beat donald trump." he's the guy that's losing steam right now if you look at these polls. kasich is beating him in most of these northeast states. it's going to be a cruel month for anymore the northeast. and we don't know how -- >> he'll get clobbered in new york. we'll see how reacts to that. >> on the other side of that, though, again, going with this, if trump is rolling up 50% wins
55% wins, 47% wins, and he goes into the convention a hundred down, it's going to be really hard. with that momentum behind him. >> a lot of the people in the party say if he doesn't have 1237 they'll fight him on a second ballot. that's the big divide. there is an argument to be made and trump people are making it that he'll have the political capital if he's close to 1237. but people say look, if he doesn't have the number, the rules are set, he doesn't have it as a gift to him. >> if he goes in with 1150, how many are real trump them? that's different. it may only be 950 will be real trump people then you go to a second ballot and most delegates are unbound. >> don't underestimate the period between california and the convention. those six weeks are where trump can try to get the delegates he needs if he's short through uncommitted delegates who he can have committed to him by the time of cleveland. >> and how much harder is it going to be if he's winning 33%
to 30% to 27% versus 55% to 22% to 16%. you just heard paul ryan who is the conscience of the republican party right now saying, hey, it's not going to be anybody that's elected that wasn't in this race, this didn't fight it out. i have a feeling if that's how paul ryan feels about it, since he's most everybody's knight in shining armor to rescue the party from itself, that's probably going to be what everybody else thinks. and if trump is trouncing ted cruz by 30 points in some of the biggest states in america, i'm just saying, that momentum is going to be hard to reject. >> so as the fight over the convention delegates drags on, donald trump is calling out the republican national committee chairman by name in an interview the hill. trump said reince priebus should be ashamed of himself. he should be ashamed of himself
because he knows what's going on and he did not stop there. >> our republican system -- our republican system -- is absolutely rigged. it's a knophony deal. these are dirty tricksters. this was a dirty trick and i'll tell you what the rnc, the republican national committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. the rules are no good when you don't get democracy. the rules are no good when they don't count your vote. when they don't -- like in colorado. the rules are not no good when you have to play dirty tricks in order to pick up delegates, okay? the party is playing dirty and we've got to show our republican party you've been disenfranchised, everybody has. you've got to show the republican party that they can't get away with this stuff any longer. >> ooh. >> very exciting. bernie sanders is going to rome
and he was in rome last night. >> and it wasn't rome, new york. >> but he was in rome. >> chairman priebus responded on twitter. "nomination process known for a year and bend. it's the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it. complaints now? give us all a break." but i want to say, didn't they create these rules a few months a ago. >> i we learned from joe scarborough growing up as a little boy that basically we believe when states know best -- >> when he was listening to radio. >> and joe scarborough talk me about devolution. it's the states that know better about -- >> these are powers not specifically given. >> colorado set those rule. reince priebus didn't set them. they're set by state. >> i'm just asking when. >> over the last several years. >> david said how exciting it's been. wait until we get to cleave land in no one has a majority and we
start seeing challenges to individual delegates. >> it's going to be great! no, this is going to be like christmas eve. >> smoking cigars and -- so listen, on what's happening there. bob costa, i like reince so -- reince is a good guy. >> what are you about to say? >> i'm just saying and what people need to understand is that that what trump is doing and what we've been saying on the past couple days that's what any smart candidate in this position would do. >> but will it get him the numbers? >> bobby knight, when he was running up and down the court screaming and throwing chairs on to the court, he didn't do that to get the numbers, he got that to work the crowd and the crowd is getting into it behind him. >> there's a cruz ad out in california that talks about whining not winning and i do think trump has to be careful about that.
his consistent motivators -- reality tv is about winning and he's a winner. how many times in his speech did he say we don't win enough, i win. and i think it's an effective challenge for cruz to say now that it's going against you in colorado, you're whining. >> the thing is, though, he's doing this while he's 30, 40 points ahead in these polls. >> there's a lot of intrigue behind these rnc comments with priebus because trump isn't raising money on his own. he's gotten small dollar donations but he's not doing major fund-raising. so if he's the nominee, he'll have to rely on the republican national committee. they have the victory fund, the grass-roots organizing on the ground, the presidential trust which is the millions of dollars the rnc could report toward the presidential nominee. there's a lot of concern among rnc members, allies of priebus that if trump gets the nomination, he'll try to push priebus out and take control of the rnc apparatus. there's jockeying right now. >> here's the crisis for donald trump long run because i think
he's going to blow through these states in the northeast. he may not get to 1237, i think he's going to get the nomination, i just do. there's nobody else out there that can get close to him. i think his real crisis is here's a guy self-funding his campaign, he's cheap about it, he said he's not going to take outside money, is he's fighting a war with the rnc. i've talked to a lot of republican donors, a lot of republican donors who say not only have we not given this man money, he's going to be the first republican i'm not voting for in the general election and they'll whisper i can't believe i'm going to vote for hillary. so the problem is, al, that we're going to get into the summer and unless things change in some pretty dramatic way, hillary's going to blow him out financially. >> oh, well, he is an atm machine for her. she's going to raise all kinds of money, even more than she would have raised because of the
specter of donald trump and i suspect you're right if he is the nominee. he's got to somehow make peace of sorts because he needs the money. i'm told -- i'm not a billionaire, joe, that will come as a shock to you. >> really? the billionaire doesn't pay him a billion? >> he does not have -- he's not liquid enough to spend that kind of money and not generous enough -- >> he's just not going to spend the money. >> al, you write in bloomberg view this -- then i want to read from your piece in the "washington post." maybe next block or this block.
>> the cruz people keep saying kasich ought to get out. if kasich got out, trump wins 95 delegates in new york. he may win them anyway. if john kasich gets out, trump sweeps connecticut, sweeps maryland. at some point, like in indiana, they're all three going to go at it, but it is perfectly legal to divide up and there ought to be some kind of unofficial -- >> might be the only way. >> it is the only way. for instance, in california cruz will be able to carry more of those 53 districts than kasich can. kasich can carry, though, some in northern california or at least be competitive. and one on one against trump in new jersey the only one who has any shot would be kasich. >> but this calls for ted cruz to be self-aware about his chances. >> okay, there's our ted cruz knock for the morning.
>> al is absolutely right in where we are today. if one of them got out, trump would win decisively because neither of them has shown the ability to engage trump. kasich gave a great speech about the path forward and how he's different but the game is to stop him from getting a majority. it's hard to engage trump. there's no debates left. trump won't debate anymore. they're all in different states most days. it's very hard for them to create a public contrast which is what they need to do to slow them down. >> and look at -- again, for ted cruz, again, his argument, get out of the race. he's in third place in all of these polls. he's getting beaten by john kasich. >> they knew coming into the northeast it wouldn't be good for him. the key is indiana. al is right, trump needs to not just win the northeast, he needs to get a lot of delegates but indiana is the battle. all three of them will fight. >> there it's one state.
>> is that a key like wisconsin is a key? >> it is. >> why is that? >> because it's on a day by itself where everybody is going to focus on it and all three of them today would say -- >> how many delegates do they have in indiana? >> maybe 40 something. >> 46 i think. >> how many in new york? >> a lot more. >> new jersey, pennsylvania. >> but symbolic importance is if cruz or kasich can beat him there they go into -- >> so you're being like nate silver. one moment it's about math but when the math doesn't add up -- >> it is all about math four years ago but now it's the intangibles. >> the only way to stop is to slow him down in indiana, otherwise he'll be the nominee. >> what does nate say the chances are that -- >> 37.248%.
that guy has lost in a landslide this year hasn't he? >> he's not had the best year. >> 57 delegates we were at an event at the center for strategic studies yesterday. >> do you know who everybody is talki ing about there? >> who? >> david ignatius. >> you're the man. my dad was, there gbob gates wa there. brent scrowcroft. but you got a chance to talk to people there who work with countries around the world and leaders around the world and deals around the world. oh, my gosh, the view from -- that they're getting from other countries about -- >> what's the view? >> it's fear. not just oh my gosh what's going on in a gossipy way but what's going on with wide open eyes but bob gates received the very first brzezinski award there and it was a lovely, lovely, lovely event. >> your father is an
extraordinary man. >> it was really cool. my brother. >> john warner was there, great to see him. and bob gates. >> my dad proposed him as a crisis candidate for the republican party and the room went crazy. >> he is a vanishing vanishing breed. >> he is the rare person who says i'm interested in helping out and let's talk about the party affiliation issues, let's talk about which particular job it is. he's somebody who you look at our national life in the last 30 years and bob gates, bob gates. i'd love to see the next president find somebody in this cabinet, i suggested in a column the other week, ernie moniz, somebody who would stay on and provide continuity. >> remember when he had a neck brace on? he said he talked to his wife
about going into service and he woke up with a neck brace and she was standing next to him with a metal bar. >> this is how he responded to even run or be anybody's vice presidential candidate. >> he used to open every speech -- i would travel with bob gates. he would say "it's great to be here in st. louis. actually, it's great to be anywhere but washington, d.c. ". >> that's the guy. he is an outsider. never liked it there. still ahead on "morning joe", a word of warning to donald trump and perhaps hillary clinton. don't underestimate ted cruz. columnist in josh green explains why he says the republican senator has a lot going for him right now. plus the editor-in-chief of the hill just sat down with trump, and later, hillary clinton supporter senator tim kaine of swing state virginia joins the conversation. i wonder if he'll be her vp. plus senator jeff merkley joins
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it's 25 past the hour. joining us now, editor-in-chief of the hill, bob cusack, his exclusive interview with gop front-runner donald trump. it's making news this morning in part for what the candidate had to say about the republican party and its chairman. we're going to get to more of that in just a moment. first, i'm going to read a portion of joe's piece in the "washington post." don't cry for us, we're not argentina. did you hear eugene robinson say that on the show the other day? joe loved it a lot.
you actually quote gene because somebody said to him on the air "we're turning into argentina, it's going to be like argentina at its worst time." >> i heard crypto fascist, proto fascist. robert reich, the former secretary of labor said donald trump was mussolini, hitler and stalin combined and you just -- you've heard the chatter
repeatedly and the fact is that it's insanity and as gene said at the end when somebody on the set said "god, we're turning into arch. that -- argentina, gene said, i lived in argentina for four years, we're not even close to argentina, just relax." i think everybody can just relax. it's to me, al hunt, and you've seen this, i talked about historically going back to the clinton years, guys like me and the republicans saying he was going to bring about the end of the great republic. then bush comes in and we hear the histrionics from the other side. then obama comes in and somebody renames a post office and a republican runs to the floor and says "mr. speaker, tonight freedom has died a bloody death." >> "you lie." >> thank you, louis gohmert. >> they do it for everything. if i had a nickel for every time i heard a republican say that during the obama years i'd have
enough money to sit next to george clooney at a political fund-raiser. it's just -- the extremes that are out there and now everybody's jumping on trump saying he's the next stalin or hitler. >> well, we're not only not argentina, we probably in many ways are the strongest economy in the world. >> right. >> we have come back from 2008/2009 much better than the europeans are. we wouldn't want to trade our problems today for the chinese problems. we have problems, to be sure. buff you know we're not doing that badly and there are a lot of good things going on. that's not what campaigns are about, though. the opposition party, whether it's the democrats or republicans want to talk about how bad things are. >> i know, exactly. it's also, bob, you look at the fact this political season -- in the beginning we were complaining there weren't enough debates. what i hear now is oh my god, is there going to be another political forum? >> another town hall.
>> i'm sorry. if you add up our access to candidates in political forums and interviews across the spectrum, this is the golden age of political reporting. look at the "washington post." look at what mark is doing. >> tell us about your interview with trump. >> and on your piece, any time politicians are comparing politics to hitler it's not a good thing. whenly l they learn not to do that anymore. >> it doesn't pay. >> i think it's remarkable that basically a hundred days out you have the chairman of the rnc and the front-runner, republican front-runner at odds publicly. it's remarkable. this was our further interview with donald trump. this was the most serious i have seen him. he had his game face on. >> say that again. >> this was our fourth interview with donald trump and this was the most serious he has been. >> that's part of what i'm talking about, david ignatius, the access. not just donald trump. bernie sanders. we had bernie for 30, 40 minutes. hillary was on before that. there are town hall meetings on
cable news. >> it's partly because the country i think is in transition. we really -- there's some new kind of politics being born this year and some of the anxiety is about donald trump i share. it's not argentina but there's some big issues here. >> of course. we're not denying that. >> we share those concerns and we've expressed those concerns but town hall meetings. >> there's two more tomorrow night. >> i know cnn has about 17 every night. >> they had one last night with the trump family. >> it's access to the candidates the likes of which we haven't seen. do you have a question for bob? >> bob, part of what's going on with reince is his constituency is not just the national committee but his donors and i hear his donors are telling him trump can't win a general election so he's under enormous pressure to not produce a nominee who his donors don't think can win. >> it's a tough position. we used to say john boehner, the
old speaker, had the toughest job. reince priebus has the toughest job. he is being pulled in so many different directions and now he has to push back because these rules have been in place but it's also odd that in colorado they didn't vote. normal people didn't vote. so he's in a no-win situation and i asked him -- donald trump yesterday, i said would you ask priebus to step down? and he dodged the question. he didn't want to answer that. but if he gets the nomination, that's a big storyline. >> i asked the silly question about whether the rules were put into place because if it was recent, if they're so flawed perhaps it's something that has to be looked at. >> i will say, though -- >> they look at the rules all the time. but let me give you a counter example. >> if people's votes don't count, we have a problem. >> in missouri, donald trump beat ted cruz 40.7 to 40.5. two-tenths of a point. trump got 25 delegates, cruz got 15. is that unfair? should we sue about that? that's a state rule of missouri.
as colorado was. >> and while i say it's a great strategy to say the system is rigged, the lawyer in me says read the fine print. you're the guy saying you're going to be great at deals, read the fine print and figure out how to exploit it state by state by state and if you don't understand how to win colorado and don't understand they're not going to vote you won't understand how to outnegotiate china. >> how can this not end up in court. >> courts almost never get involved in lawsuits. >> they're a con strengs that gets to write its own rules but i'd love to hear a brief snapshot of what you think reince priebus will look like in july in cleveland. >> a lot of gray hair. >> a lot of gray hair and stomach aches. but that's the real question for me, is he a strong enough personality with a clear enough sense of a party that he can
take them through this very difficult period? >> four years ago is when mitt romney's operation took over planning of the convention. in the modern era we've never had a convention planned by the national committee reince priebus has to figure out what the convention looks like. who speaks monday night? who's the keynote speaker? >> and i guarantee you there will be another guy, a friend of his from wisconsin -- >> yes. >> paul ryan is -- paul ryan's -- his fingerprints are going to be all over that convention because right now he is the moral authority of that party and he and reince will be figuring this out together. >> and he has a very cordial relationship with trump. i agree. i think he'll play a huge roll. he's got a lot of credibility in the party. he's the chairman of the convention. >> and i will say because of paul ryan being there, donald trump can say the system is
rigged, it's great for his crowds, it's great for his demographic but it's not going to be rigged. paul ryan will make sure that everything is above board. i think it will be pretty fair and square. >> joe, let me give you paul ryan's problems. the fact is paul ryan and the grass-root republican voters are out of sync with one another. they don't have trump's views on trade and fiscal policy so even though he may be the moral conscience of the party, most of those delegates out there won't say let's look to st. paul for even guidance. >> but paul ryan is smart enough because he's a guy young enough, he probably has his eyes on running if the white house in the future. paul ryan knows all of those trump supporters with who used to be reagan democrats or whatever we want to call them, he'll need those people on his side. and if he's fair, he doesn't have to share all of their views.
if he's seen as a straight shooter, he will win the admiration if not the votes in the future of those trump people. >> in 2036 he will be younger than trump, bernie sanders, and hillary clinton are today. >> he's got a future. >> hillary has the same issue more immediate with bernie sanders supporters. the hill's bob cusack, thank you very much. >> bob, thank you. >> coming up, how ted cruz's primary is almost identical to hillary clinton in 2008 only reverse. why it's the first time washington insiders may have gotten it totally wrong. "morning joe" is back in a moment.
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trio of new polls out of new york show hillary clinton maintaining a sturdy double-digit lead in her home state ahead of next week's primary. a poll just released from quinnipiac university has her up 13 points. a new york 1 baruch college poll has her up 13 as well as a ciena college poll up 10. meanwhile, the q poll shows the age breakdown that's become a familiar story in this race. sanders leading clinton by 20 points among new york voters age 18 to 44 while clinton dominates among older demographics. secretary clinton also has a commanding lead among black voters in new york, leading senator sanders by 37 points. that comes as the sanders campaign is calling into questi question clinton's credibility after her claim that the home state of vermont is responsible for gun violence in new york. in a press release sent out yesterday titled "clinton's credibility gap," the sanders campaign pushed back against that claim saying "clinton's
credibility was questioned after she blamed vermont for gun violence in new york." the charge backfired when the "washington post" called her assertions significantly misleading. the "washington post" awarded three pinocchios to clinton's assertion that the highest per capita number of guns in new york came from vermont the "post" called it misleading because of vermont's small population and said the number of crime guns in new york from vermont is so small that it could be attributed to one two bad actors. i've seen clinton campaign people when they talk about bernie sanders' position on gun manufacturers adding in a kbunch of other positions he does not hold on background checks and this and that trying to lump him as pro-gun in a way that is misleading. >> and bernie has a d-minus rating with the nra. a week ago we were thinking this new york race is going to be very close, that bernie was
making it a much tighter race. but right now it looks like hillary clinton is just dominating, completely dominating in a race that we all said bernie had to win to keep the momentum going. >> the private polling done by campaigns and others matches the public polling. she's in the mid-50s and stable. he needs to shake up the race. it's incredible. hats off to the clinton people how much they keep the dialogue on gun control as opposed to her vote on iraq and wall street reform and income inequality and free college. he has a debate tomorrow night, he's got a few more days, two of which he'll spend in rome -- not rome, new york. and if he doesn't change the dynamic and make new york closer it's going to be difficult for him to go forward but he will. he'll go forward with a lot of money and a chance to win more delegates and go to the convention but if he doesn't change the dynamic, he won't beat her. >> i thought, joe, sanders got off to a bad start in new york with the "daily news" interview which he was quizzed on the
center of his campaign, breaking up the big banks and going after wall street and when pressed, what is this going to mean for new york? what happens to j.p. morgan or other real institutions of our city, of our state, he just didn't have answers and we'll see on the debate tomorrow night whether he has lifted that game so he can speak articulately about what he would -- >> and in-depth. >> because if he doesn't have answers for this right now he'll stay right where he is now. >> i talked to quite a few bernie supporters that i know in new york and they were scared off. they were scared off of him after the "new york daily news." one or two just said well, it was fun while it lasted but that was -- the "new york daily news" interview in the long run could have been a turning point in this new york campaign. >> bernie's only very, very slim shot to turn this thing around was to win new york.
>> he has to win it. >> that's what they plan really for weeks. they even drew the analogy to gettysburg. lee going to gettysburg. i think he's going to have the same outcome as lee, he's going to get trounced. he'll stay in it because he does have the money. he'm raise the issues. one point about hillary clinton, though, she's going to be the nominee. she better be cautious about how she goes after bernie. >> i think she is being. >> she's held back, has she not. >> sometime she is goes a little too shrill. look at obama in april and may of 2008. he was very careful in his criticism of her because he knew that he needed her. she needs those bernie people, particularly those young voters. >> you take this. >> okay, john kasich is issuing a warning to what he says as two paths forward in the gop race for president and the speech yesterday in manhattan he eluded to his opponents when he said the nation has a choice in the upcoming election. >> two paths, one choice, the
path that exploits anger, encourages resentment, turns fear into hatred and divides people. this path solves nothing. it demeans our history, it weakens our country and it cheapens each one of us. the other path is that one america has been down before, it's well trod. at times it's very steep. but it's al solid. it's the same path our forebearers took together and it's from this higher path that we are offered the much greater view. >> robert costa, you report this kasich's appeal came across to some as another gasp of the old republican party, gop strategist rick wilson is quoted as saying --
>> my colleague and i thought yesterday was an interesting moment because you had paul ryan step away from 2016 consideration and you had kasich give a speech about pragmatism and bipartisan solutions and bringing people together but this remains the year of the outsider and it's hard to see a path for kasich as much as he has a second-place showing in some of these polls, there just seems to be such a resistance post george w. bush, post-disappointment with the tea party and all what it yielded in 2010 and forty. this is a party that's pulsating with anger toward the establishment. >> bob gates when we were talking to him, we were actually -- i was surprised, somebody asked him in the question-and-answer session about what was happening out there and he talked to us about the anger that's out there and he said some of his people he'd been talking to, some people that i like were great
candidates but they could not connect with the anger throughout and bob said people in my street are angry. they're angry at how difficult life is. it's hard to get your driver's license. it's hard going to the post office. >> everything is a roadblock. >> he said everything you have to do outside of your family is getting harder and harder and more and more cumbersome. even bob gates said if you you can't connect the anger out there you can't hold public office. >> i think that's the heart of the puzzle for the republicans is how to find a candidate who can keep the party together but speak to this anger, speak to intense dislike where if country is going on. i try to think is there another path to get to that and began playing my mind with military leaders and how the republicans in 1952 in what they called the winter of their discontent
turned to dwight d. eisenhower, a general who was a unifier. a simple down to earth man. is there somebody out there at this late date for the republicans? and i think the answer is probably no but it's interesting to look at the names to think of how they would be able to speak to public anger -- >> if this were eight years ago the answer would be easy, mark halperin, the answer would be david petraeus. took himself off the field. but that military leader it would be -- >> any mitt telitary leader not kasich or ted cruz or donald trump would have to go from zero delegates to over a thousand to a standing start. it's not going to happen. >> i agree. also, ike was ike. he was the supreme allied commander. even petraeus never had the standing that dwight d. eisenhower had and he was an incredibly great candidate. >> we don't fight wars like that anymore. coming up, it may be the
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you guys stop. coming up, house speaker paul ryan says count him out as a potential presidential contender but do his actions speak louder than his words? peter alexander brings us the exclusive conversation with the nation's most powerful republican. also joining us, senator jeff merkley joins us who says he's backing bernie sanders. also tim kaine -- >> can we call him vice president? >> call him veep. we're back in a moment.
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this made me laugh. an analyst for msnbc tried to draw a map of america to help explain the election to his viewers but it looks like he drew something else. take a look at this. >> work your magic. >> if you look at the state that are going to come. >> it didn't work. >> it's a blank slate. >> i'm going to draw a map of the united states here. this is my crude version of a map -- [ laughter ] now here's the thing -- [ laughter and applause ] >> honey, put the kids to sleep! >> he did not just do that. >> god bless the usa. >> can we see that again? i want to see that again. poor steve kornacki. >> this made me laugh. an analyst for msnbc tried to draw a map of america to explain the election to his viewers. but it looks like he drew something else. >> let me see if i can get this here. >> work your magic, steve. >> didn't actually work there. >> it's a blank slate. do whatever you want to do.
>> i'm going to draw a map of the united states here. this is my crude version of a map of the united states. [ laughter and applause ] >> honey, put the kids to sleep! [ laughter ] >> alex! can you get us the rest of that? what happened after? did he erase it and start again? >> it's fudgy the whale from carvell. >> steve kornacki is literally the best we have. >> there we go, that's what happened next. >> it is a whale. it is a whale. >> it's the whale cake from carvell. >> look at hallie keeping a straight face. atta girl. welcome back to "morning joe." we better move along very quickly. we're live in washington. >> that will wake you up. >> that will wake you up. wednesday, april 13. we have managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin, associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius, columnist in for bloomberg view, al hunt and former ted cruz campaign
communication director and now msnbc contributor rick tyler, welcome to the show. >> glad to be here. >> we won't have you draw maps of florida or texas or anything else so we have some polls out? >> it's looking really bad for donald. it's getting old. it's been old. >> "losing steam." >> three polls show donald trump running away with the new york primary. the quinnipiac university poll shows trump with a 25-point lead at 55%. the new york 1/baruch college poll shows him at 60% and a new siena college poll puts him at 50%, 23 points ahead of john kasich. after that they stay in the northeast for five more states and new numbers from two of those states have trump well ahead as well. trump is at 50% in connecticut, kasich at 26% and cruz at 17%. a new nbc 4/marist poll in
maryland has trump with a 12-point lead over cruz, kasich at 24 there. so within all that we still have delegate drama. shall we continue? >> no, let's talk about the massive gaps between trump and obviously kasich. >> because that's where he might be losing steam. >> and cruz. what do the numbers look like to you? >> the northeast is trump country and going out of wisconsin the cruz people said this will not be our best period. kasich needs to do well in the northeast and he's not clearly second in any of these states but he could end up second. it would give him -- >> what if ted cruz comes in third place in all of these states? >> it's not great for him because trump can get to a majority if he's not slowed down. indiana, as we said before, becomes a big showdown. and cruz has to makes an argument. right now a lot of what he's heard saying is trump is a whiner, trump is a loser. he needs to make an argument about why he's, a, more electable and, b, more of a true
conservative. >> you said something very interesting. you said if it's only a one on one race that trump does even better. >> al and i agree about this. if kasich got out, trump would sweep the northeast and he would have enough delegates to be within striking distance by california. >> so kasich is taking votes from trump. >> not in a linear way but they need to slow him down. there's a binary game here right now. there's all sorts of scenarios if trump doesn't get a majority but if trump gets a majority it's over and he's in a position to do that one on one because right now cruz hasn't proven certainly in the northeast and beyond that he can actually beat him. >> the so many of these races are winner take all by congressional district. 53 in california, same thing in connecticut and new york and even if john kasich's vote would predominantly go to cruz, if you
hold trump below 50%, that's critical if you don't want to stop trump. if he gets 50e s 50 he sweeps t states. >> if you get 50% plus you get all of the delegates? >> yes, you do. by cd. if you got 50% in every single cd in california you'd have 159 delegates. >> right. >> but if you get 40 and another guy gets 35 and another guy gets 25, you split them up. >> so, rick, when you guys were planning to campaign out, the cruz campaign had to know the northeast was going to be rough sledding. what's the strategy? how does ted cruz survive third-place finishes? >> i think the campaign has been on track. their goal was to consolidate the base of the republican party, the tea party, the evangelical, libertarian. the last would be to bring on the establishment. weren't going to do well in the northeast. john kasich is -- i think has been a thorn in their side.
i don't disagree that -- the goal has to be to stop him from getting the requisite number of -- >> how do they do that? >> well, they have to do it in indiana. indiana is a place cruz can win. mike pence is the governor there, it's very conservative. >> is that proportional? winner take all? >> i think it's proportional. >> winner take all in congressional districts. statewide. >> then you have washington, oregon, and i think there's a lot of media markets. the anti-trump movement is not in d.c. now, right? they're not spending money there because the market is hugely expensive, trump is so far ahead they want to husband their resources for these other states and california has lots of media markets. there's two expensive ones, los angeles and san francisco, but there's a lot of places to pick off conservative congressional districts in california. >> this sounds like hand-to-hand combat as we move forward, congressional district by congressional district. >> it is in places like new york where you can -- if you're cruz or kasich maybe target and slow trump down but i don't -- i just
don't have any sense from those public polls and the way the candidates are spending their time, i don't have a sense there will be slowing trump down in the northeast. >> i don't know how you slow trump down. >> he's going to have a strong three-week run. we all keep saying it. indiana is a place where you can change the narrative a little bit but trump has the benefit of the first ballot. the first ballot when people who are pledged to vote for trump vote for trump and so they are going hard for it because after the first ballot things become a lot better for cruz and a lot worse for trump. >> david, i've been saying for years when candidates or campaign people call and say what's the strategy? how are we going to stop front-runner x? i always say you stop them in south carolina. that's -- you put the gauntlet up in south carolina and you've got to kill their campaign in south carolina because if they win there, you shoot out of it, it's the last closely held contest where you can microtarget and suddenly it's just a shotgun and nobody has a big enough shotgun to spray the
other 46, 47 states with -- >> there's so many different battlegrounds. i wanted to ask rick about one paradox for cruz now which is that the harder he works on particular places where he can pull delegates away from trump -- and colorado is a good example, it's a very professional operation, very aggressive and cruz did well and there will probably be more of those like that -- the argument back from trump and his supporters is "you're stealing it." meaning i'm ahead and these votes are being grabbed away from me as the front-runner. how does cruz combat that? because after colorado it was really intense. >> well, cruz's people in the party believe the rnc somehow -- trump's people believe the fix is in but not only are they going to screw trump out of the nomination, they're going to try to screw cruz out of the nomination people believe that. so you almost need a third-party historian to explain it.
one of the analogies you can use is in 2000 george w. bush lost the popular vote to al gore. al gore wasn't president. why? because of the electoral college. these are well known and well established and anybody who can read the english language and understand words should have been able to understand how to win colorado. instead of saying you know it was corrupt and we didn't do that. no, you didn't try, you didn't put in an effort and you didn't understand the game that you're in. so it looks to me more like incompetence and not corruption. >> right. >> by the way. these delegates that cruz is picking off -- and i think you're right, very professionally -- probably equal or exceed the number of delegates that trump is liable to pick up in new york. so he's been -- >> all right. the "washington post," if i could, david, reports this morning that ted cruz is close to ensuring that donald trump cannot win the gop nomination on the second ballot at the party's july convention in cleveland. their analysis finds cruz is likely to pick up at least 1230 130 more votes if trump fails to
reach a majority on the first ballot. a number maybe as high as 170 delegates. as the fight drags on, trump is calling out the republican national committee chairman in an interview with the hill. he didn't stop there. >> our republican system is absolutely rigged. it's a phony deal. this was a dirty trick. these are dirty tricksters. this is a dirty trick and i'll tell you why. the rnc, the republican national committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. the rules are no good when you don't get democracy. the rules are no good when they don't count your vote.
when they don't -- like in colorado. the rules are no good when you have to play dirty tricks in order to pick up delegates, okay? the party is playing dirty. and we've got to show our republican party you've been disenfranchised, everybody has. you've got to show the republican party that they can't get away with this stuff any longer. >> remember in the debates, mika, when the crowds would boo donald trump? and donald trump would say "oh, the donors are booing me" and everybody thought, oh, boy, it really is horrible for donald trump because he's being booed? matthew dowd wrote a tweet during one of these episodes and said "anybody that thinks donald trump being booed by people that he then identifies as the donor class do not understand what's happening in 2016." >> and also what bothers him. >> that attack against priebus may not be a fair attack but as
far as message, 2016, rick, for the people that have lining up and voting for trump, that's the sweet spot. >> but that's not the speech of a winner. that's the speech of someone who believes he's losing. >> no. that's the speech of somebody that can win 49 states and would be enraged he lost the 50th. >> but he's setting it up as if he was going to lose. he's trying to find a way to win by losing. if i lose -- and i believe he will lose on the second ballot -- that's the speech i see. he believes he's going to lose this nomination at the convention on the second ballot and this is -- he's setting -- >> interesting. >> but, rick, isn't that precisely the cleveland disaster moment? he's saying if i don't win, this is rigged. that's basically the pitch here. >> yeah. >> if cruz takes away enough delegates through hard work, whatever, and i don't win, it's rigged. >> it's a threat. >> he'll say that to all the people who voted for donald trump and you have in cleveland
just a kind of detonation. >> that happens and cruz or someone else gets in on the second or third or fifth ballot, i find it very hard to see donald trump on that stage thursday night raising his hand with him. i don't think that's going to happen. >> not in a million years. >> stop us if you have heard this one before. paul ryan doesn't want the most powerful political office in the land. during a news conference yet, the house speaker tried to put to rest once and for all that he's not angling for president in the contested convention. he spoke with nbc news peter alexander who joins us from capitol hill. peter, what did he tell you? >> mika and joe, good morning to you. this was an extraordinarily formal news conference in what's already been an unusual 2016 political campaign. several hours later, we got to meet privately with speaker ryan who again ruled himself out as the republican nominee but he talked about 40 who convention delegates should consider. >> trying to put to rest
unrelating 2016 speculation, paul ryan says "count me out." to . >> to be the president you should run for it. i chose not to do this. therefore i should not be considered. period. end of story. >> reporter: hours later, during our exclusive interview wiinter cop toll, speaker ryan said -- >> we should select among the people who ran for the job. >> reporter: still, a growing chorus of mainstream republicans are pressing for ryan to accept his party's nomination. if donald trump or ted cruz can't clinch it at a contested convention. he encouraged top delegates to write a rule meaning the nominee must have wrorun. >> does that mean we could see scott walker or marco rubio or jeb bush? >> you have to be one of the candidates running for president who ran for president. >> reporter: ryan has insisted he's not a candidate before. >> i'm not running for president. i made that decision not to.
>> reporter: while he keeps s saying no, his political actions have added more buzz including a statementsman like trip overseas and a history of public denials that he's not running for office before accepting it. first as mitt romney's running mate then last fall as john boehner's successor. as for the next president, ryan isn't making any predictions. >> it's going to be a new person i can tell you that. >> reporter: not you? >> not me. >> reporter: so to be clear, you're not running for president? >> that's clear, thank you. >> as for donald trump's claim that the rnc has become unfair, paul ryan wouldn't weigh in. he said there is a process in place. but as the highest-ranking official in the house, ryan will take the stage this summer in
ohio. mika and joe. >> peter alexander, thank you very much. i think he'll have a role in trying to shape the chaos. >> i think he'll have a significant role. mark halperin, he's running the convention. right now he seems to be the most unifying figure but how large of a role will he play. >> there will be a little chaos in cleveland. he will have meets with the press. he will be trying to send a message to the country however this turns out our party stands for certain values and he'll be thinking and meeting with people about how do we keep control of the louse, how do we try to keep control of the senate regardless at who's at the top of the ticket. he will be a major force. if there are fights over the rules, delegation challenges, he'll be at the center of it. >> mark halperin thank you, rick tyler, thanks for being on. still ahead on "morning joe,"
we'll bring in senator jeff merkley endorsing bernie sanders plus senator tim kaine of the foreign relations committee who is backing hillary clinton. and a cautionary tale from bloomberg's josh green -- don't underestimate ted cruz. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ it was always just a hobby. something you did for fun. until the day it became something much more. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade. headache? motrin helps you be an unstoppable, let's-rock-this-concert- like-it's-1999 kind of mom. when pain tries to stop you, there's motrin.
it's 20 past the hour. senator jeff merkley of oregon has become the first and only u.s. senator to endorse his colleague bernie sanders for president. senator merkley announced his endorsement in a "new york times" op-ed this morning writing -- senator jeff merkley joins us on the set. good morning, good to have you, great to be with you. >> also with us on the set in
washington, national columnist in for the bloomberg business week and political correspondent for the "boston globe," josh green. i guess we begin withberg and what first of all -- is this late in the game to enzpors are you right on time? what was the decision process? >> this is just the right time for oregon. oregon has a vote by mail. the ballots get mailed out on the 28th of this month so this is -- >> do you think he can win? >> i think that anything's possible in a campaign. obviously the matt is an uphill claim but we've been surprised about what happens in campaigns time and again. >> why are you swimming against the political tide and becomes the first senator to endorse bernie sanders? >> because this is about the person who has the boldest, most fierce vision on the biggest issue facing america and the world. certainly that's true in terms of international trade, bernie understands that these trade treaties where we compete with people earning as little as a
dollar an hour have done enormous damage to american workers, have shifted a tremendous number of jobs overseas. he's fought for health care, the expansion of the federally qualified health centers was really his baby in the affordable care act. he has proceeded to be a wonderful leader for veterans and certainly on -- when it comes to global warming he is the person who understands that if we are going to take this on, it's a moral responsibility for our generation and this planet that we have to leave the vast bulk of fossil fuels in the ground. >> senator, let me ask you the question i think many people have in particular after the "daily news" interview with bernie sanders a week ago. people wondering if he has mastered the details of his proposals enough so that he could tell you this is how i'm
going to break up the big banks. this is how i'm going to change that economy. reading the interview, there were an awful lot of silences after the tough questions about how to do it were raised and you wondered maybe hillary clinton's claimant with "i know how to do these things" deserves more attention. >> certainly you've got to judge someone by the totality of their reco record. he's put forward detail proposals. he backed the volcker rule which took the gambling out of wall street. he backed the amendment to cap the share of deposits that any single big bank could have. so perhaps that -- >> he said what you just said, he would have had a better interview. >> i'm sure he's thought about that many times since then. >> so josh green, to you and why we shouldn't underestimate ted
cruz. >> it's something mika does everyday. >> what i say is n this column is that we made the same analytical mistake d.c. insiders did with cruz in 2016 as we did with hillary clinton in 2008 only in reverse. back then clinton was assumed to be the inevitable democratic nominee. i got called mean names by clinton people whenever i expressed doubt about that in print and low and behold she went on to lose the nomination. i argue one of the reasons people haven't woken up to the cruz challenge until recently is that he's so despised in washington by his own colleagues in the senate that people didn't realize he is an acceptable conservative to most republicans in the country and we may see that come to fruition. >> but if nobody likes him and he can't work with anybody, how -- everyone's trying to stop trump, pushing cruz in there. do they know what they're doing? because he hasn't got the great track record -- >> i didn't think anybody in the republican party knows what
they're doing these days but when the imperative is to stop trump, cruz is the most attractive weapon. >> organized. >> he's organized, he's shown strategic capacity and while he wouldn't be the first, second, or third choice of most republicans in washington, he's the only viable option that got to stop trump. >> i agree with your column. let me ask you something, there hasn't been focus on cruz's ideas. are things like a national sales tax, is that going to cause problems for him being not for any exception for rape on abortion or rollback the clock? >> i think it would cause huge problems and one reason why washington insider types were so down on his candidacy originally -- he was the original "oh, god, we can't elect this guy candidate" before donald trump showed up on these t scenes because all of these things would repel swing voters. it's hard to see what state ted cruz would put in play that mitt romney lost in 2012. >> would you rather see bernie
sanders run against ted cruz or donald trump in the fall? >> either campaign would be just fine because bernie would do very well against either. it's just fascinating to see the dysfunction on the republican side. i mean, we're fortunate on the democratic side. we have two very capable candidates who bring forth articulate ideas. i'm -- i couldn't be prouder to be a democrat at this moment. >> all right. senator, thank you so much. >> senator jeff merkley, thank you. josh green, thank you as well. coming up, they've sampled deli sandwiches, nathan's hot dogs and matzo, but before the candidates go tote primary day, they have to survive the new york city press corps and that story is next when "morning joe" continues. sure, we cor put them stacked on a rack.s. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee.
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well, you know, new yorkers are never shy about giving their opinion, and in just six days, they'll say exactly how they feel about the presidential race. but before tuesday's primary, the candidates are coming face to face with the city's notoriously tough press corps. just yesterday, two papers offered their endorsements and louis bergdorf takes a closer look at the gotham city media gauntless. >> reporter: even if you're not a new yorker, the skyline is as unmistakable as the city's
diverse culture, fast pace and direct attitude. you've probably been told if you can make it here you can make it anywhere. an old saying that's definitely not lost on politicians. >> if a candidate is going to be voted, it's going to happen here. this is the ultimate proving ground. if you come to play in new york, you better be ready. >> reporter: in the city that never sleeps, it's no surprise the press corps doesn't either. >> for everyone it's feed or be fed. you are engaging, interacting, working on projecting a proactive narrative or you are that day's lunch. >> there's no time -- can i say this on camera? no time for bull [ bleep ]. new york is a place where you doubt the chase and we want everything now. we want it loud and in your face. >> the best thing about being in
journalism in new york city, you get the full buffet. >> new york media not only defines the city but defines the world. we have two of everything, we have two tabloids, two subway newspapers, two 24-hour news stations, we have two broad sheet newspapers. >> it has a very strong competitive edge. i think we can say that. >> and for new yorkers who tell it like it is, the front page headlines speak volumes. >> that front page, the wood, the headline on the front pages of both papers just create chaos. >> there have been front pages that have a national impact partly because we captured a moment very well and partly because it's new york city. >> often the top target, city hall. these days there's a new story in gotham. >> how has the new york press treated you? >> it's new york. >> thank you, brooklyn! >> i love new york no matter where i am. >> this is home. it's great to be home. >> just going around new york.
>> and the job is to hold these guys to account and i think more so than any other press country -- >> i don't know, mr. d'amato, i'm a humble philosopher searching for the truth. >> no, you're doing a hatchet job. >> don't let them push you around, be irreverent, be skeptical, these are the new york values that i see in the press of new york. >> it was marcia cramer who got him to say he never inhaled? >> i experimented with marijuana a time or two and didn't like it and didn't inhale and never tried it again. so my question to you then would be why didn't you give that kind of an answer at the "daily news" editorial board. >> i don't think anyone with him at the moment thought it was clever and i don't think history shows it was that clever. if you want to show up in the tabloids of new york and take it from someone who wanted to avoid them as much as i could and failed, it's not that hard to do. the question is does that make you a good candidate?
>> we came down hard on hillary. next day we came down hard on bernie. today we came down on ted cruz. everybody has their day. and we're equal opportunity critics of all these guys. >> equal opportunity critics. it's rough in new york. you do forget sometimes when you're there so much but it's unlike anywhere else. it's just all over the place. >> what makes it so exciting is new york is usually out of play. but now you come to new york and you handled the south carolina newspapers and the iowa newspapers. then you run into the "new york post." welcome to new york city, right? >> i'm so stunned. i was a kid reporter -- you may find that hard to believe -- in new york and gabe pressman was the experienced -- >> and he's still there.
>> he's still there. >> i loved what he said, too. you've worked up there for the "daily news." it's a city like no other. >> when you grew up as a politician, as someone in new york city where you live or die by the "new york post," new york dpally news, "new york times," "new york" magazine, new york 1 and on top of that you have the national media headquartered there if you learn how to operate in that environment you can make it anywhere. so what's fascinating about what's happening now, new york is always out of play until now so people have gotten basically a free ride or have been able to skate by not being vetted, they get to new york and whether they like it or not, when they get vetted -- i think the whole campaign has goon new york. it's not just a sliver of a
moment ahead of the primary. trump has navigated it and changed flix that way. >> and i'll give donald trump credit. that will shock you, joe. i don't believe if you can do it in new york you can do it everywhere in politics. giuliani a flop, mario cuomo. trump has done something unique. >> you know what, though there? trump worked the press constantly. >> he worked the press all right, but in a different way, giuliani. >> but you're right, jonathan. if you can -- if you've grown up like trump in the tabloids with the "new york times" doing long investigations on your businesses, if you're holding press conferences after divorces, if you're holding press conferences saying "i'm $9 billion in debt" if you're holding press conferences for one pageant scandal after
another so suddenly when you do that having somebody from the "des moines register" not like you doesn't really bother donald trump. >> all those things you just mentioned. there's good things in there, the things he had to put up with a bad things he's had to put up with, donald trump. but the key in all of that is that he doesn't care what you think and so it's not -- >> so long as you're not on his case. >> all press is good press. >> trump has educated all of us in that kind of tough exterior pushback watching donald trump's twitter feed is an education in brass knuckles flix the 21st century. and he's made -- he's taken the country and people are saying, yeah, that's -- he knows how to
win. >> bring it on. up next, yesterday u2's bono joined us live to preview his testimony on capitol hill but he didn't tell us this part of his plan. >> don't laugh. but i think comedy should be deployed because if you look at national socialism and daesh and isil, this is the same thing. we've seen this before. we've seen before they're very vain, they've got all the signs up, it's show business. you speak violence, you speak their language. but you laugh at them when they're goose stepping down the street and it takes away their power. so i'm suggesting that the senate send in amy schumer and chris rock and cohen. thank you. >> okay. >> there's a plan. >> that's a plan. we're going to ask senator tim kaine of the foreign relations committee whether they've discussed that in the senate. >> probably not. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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joining us now on capitol hill, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia who has endorsed hillary clinton for president i'm hearing veep talk about you, tim kaine. any word on your end? >> well, i'll tell you, i love my job and i'm not looking for another one so as you guys know, we got a lot to do up here and a lot of challenges and i'm pretty happy doing it. john warner is my role model from virginia. he was here 30 years, i hope to be here for a while. >> i sat next to him at dipper last night. >> did you really? >> yes, i did. it was a wonderful dinner at csis with scowcroft, gates, john warner, brzezinski. great minds on foreign policy. >> indeed.
>> and they were talking about how tough the landscape is in terms of getting really good deep foreign policy thinkers at the forefront to confront some of our challenges that we're looking at now. i know that you won't confirm veep talk but give us a sense of what you think about hillary clinton's foreign policy. a lot of people say she's more of a hawk than maybe perhaps she would be presented by her surrogates. >> i don't think that's quite fair. but, look, she does believe that america needs to lead and needs to get engaged at key moments and she's not afraid to do that militarily if that's the last resort that's necessary but also diplomatically. i think the fact that she has had this balanced experience of having been an arms services committee member but also being the chief diplomat in an administration that decided to revitalize vigorous american diplomacy, that gives her sort of some balance and she's also
got some scar tissue. mika, we learn from our missteps along the way and she's said look i wish i had that iraq war vote back and i think most of us if we're truthful we have to acknowledge that we learn more looking in the rear-view mirror and saying woi, i went down this path and i might do it differently this time. she's made fantastic decisions. she's made decisions where she's said "look, i learned from this one." and that gives her such a portfolio, an ability to offer foreign policy leadership at a time where many think we don't a clearly articulated strategy. >> senator, you have been one of the party's strongest, clearest voices on foreign policy and you've said consistently that you think there needs to be congressional authorization for the war that we're now fighting against isis. as that war spreads and becomes more toxic in europe, do we still have time to debate that and have you drawn up a new version that will encompass the isis that attacks in brussels
and paris and across european targets as well as in syria and iraq? >> i think we absolutely have to have this discussion. one of the reasons we don't have a strategy is congress hasn't meaningfully engaged. congress wants to criticize the president "why aren't you doing this? why aren't you doing that?" but not meaningfully debate and craft an authorization. we've got to go back to the 2001 authorization post-9/11 and rewrite it. the president said in may of 2013 he was going to work with congress to do that and this hasn't happened and so here we are 14, 15 years later relying upon a 60-word war authorization without a temporal limit, without any geographic limits. we've stretched every clause way past its original meaning but congress has been unwilling to dive back in and have a meaningful discussion. jeff flake and i have a bipartisan resolution that's pending in both the senate and a companion version introduced in
the house to get us moving down that path and having that discussion and casting a vote but so far the leadership of both parties, both houses, i'll be honest, they would rather not take it up and just criticize the president if they don't like what he's doing. >> jonathan capehart? >> senator, let me bring you back domestically to talk about something you're working on and that is a bill to establish a commission to formally recognize 400 years of african-american history. can you talk a little bit about that? i haven't seen much about it. >> yeah, jonathan, absolutely. very proud of this. when i was governor of virginia, i was governor at an interesting time. we were celebrating the 400th anniversary of the settlement of jamestown and so congress put a commission in place to do interpretive events in education, federally chartered commission. last year i was the co-chair of the u.s. spain council. congress did a commission to celebrate 450 years of the hispanic roots of america and the settlement of st. augustine, florida, in 1565.
2019 is the 400th anniversary of 20 captured slaves from a portuguese slave ship being brought forcibly to point comfort, virginia, in hampton. i said, look, if english lives matters, if hispanic lives matters than the african contributions to this country matter and even though that start was so painful and there's been so much pain along the way, we need the same congressionally chartered commission to tell the story in a way that it's probably never really been told before. we have the bill introduced, it's bipartisan in both houses, congressman bobby scott of virginia and then mark warner and i in the senate are leading it and we are trying to find a way to move it on the floor because we need time to prespire that when 2019 comes we can tell the story in its tragedy and triumph. >> senator tim kaine, thank you. >> thanks so much. >> so no veep talk, huh? just none? absolutely none. >> i like my job. >> i know you like your job! that's not the answer to the
question. any vetting? any veep talk? >> nope. i'm just down here pounding the pavement in the -- and bono doesn't need comedy, we're comic enough here. [ laughter ] often unintentionally. >> good deflection. tim, thanks very much. good to have you on the show. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i'm not defending this process. what i'm defending is the fact that colorado republicans followed the process that's been in place since president taft. >> and i guess that the problem is that when you get this tweet "we did it #nevertrump" that's sort of a show stopper in terms of whether or not it looks like the republican party was trying to be unfair to donald trump. >> well, they ought to find out how that happened and who did it and fire whoever it was, absolutely. we'll get the latest on the delegate drama and choice words donald trump had for the rnc chair. plus, no laughing matter. a skit starring new york city mayor and hillary clinton falls
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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. so hillary clinton is at the center of a controversy involving what some are calling a racially charged joke made by new york city mayor bill de blasio at the city's annual
inner circle event over the weekend. i have to admit i've never heard this saying before. during a skit involving the mayor clinton and hamilton star, lesli odom. cp time, colored people time. jonathan kippert is laughing. >> i wonder if he would be laughing -- >> black people are often late. here's part of that skit from saturday night and mayor de blasio's explanation last night on msnbc. >> i just have to say thanks for the endorsement, bill. took ya long enough. >> sorry, hillary. i was running on cp time. >> i don't like jokes like that,
bill. that's not funny. >> cautious politician time. >> why not just apologize. why not say, we shouldn't have done the joke? >> it's a satire. the whole show was a satire. i was mocking myself. i'm sorry, i think -- look, i take full responsibility if someone else wrote the script but i approved it. i just think sometimes there's a place for satire in this world, and that's what this was. >> if you had to do it over again, would you do it? >> i'm pretty comfortable with it. it was meant to be a joke on the way we speak. it was obviously not meant to offend anyone and it was part of a show that was filled with satire making fun of elected officials, making fun of our normal political discourse. you have to put it in the context of the evening. >> you know what he should have done was i was running on clinton time. bill clinton is always late.
>> i was laughing because this whole thing is just ridiculous. >> is it? >> yes. the inner circle dinner is the one night of the year like the white house correspond department's dinner where they get together and make fun of each other, one. two, context matters here. bill de blasio is renowned in new york city for being late, not just two minutes late, five minutes late, but sometimes hours late, that's one. two, his wife, charlane, of 22 years is african-american. he has two biracial children. >> if anyone can make the joke, maybe it would be him. >> right. exactly. so that's why i say context matters. you said before you wondered if i would be laughing if ted cruz said it. no, i wouldn't because -- >> or any republican. >> well, not any republican, but context matters here and so bill de blasio's making fun of himself. he's using a joke that i bet mika said you have never heard
of term before. >> i haven't. >> people on twitter, they've never heard it before. >> right. >> what you're hearing is basically an inside joke among african-americans that's spilled out there for everyone to see and now bernie sanders are trying to make hillary clinton some sort of raving racist. >> don't you think context matters. he's married to a woman who happens to be black and -- >> i think de blasio's fine. >> he's fine. this is silly if it's okay for me to say. >> my next column is on this, doing it as we -- >> i mean, you've got to know the man and you know where his heart is. >> can i have a transcript of what i just said? >> it should have been clinton time, trust me, that bo have been a very good joke. up next, the front page of "the new york times" claim donald trump is losing steam but the polls show differently.
>> david ignatius says if it's a brokered convention, he's going to take up smoking cigars. >> have you told your wife? >> she'd shoot me. she said, if you could take up smoking cigars you can take up another address. >> how they do could determine the next republican nominee. we're back in a minute. if your family outing is magical for all the wrong reasons. you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin®.
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count me out. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> good morning, everyone. >> count me out, doggone it. >> sound a little -- >> it's not going to do it. so mark halpern, you remember i told you how in the golden era of "new york times" reporting it was so much easier to write stories when people punched each other at trump events? here's a layout. >> yeah. >> they always had a layout. trump was always out there. he's pulled back and since he's pulled back a bit -- >> they're stuck. >> they are stuck. remember i told you they make up a new story every day, like three days ago it was trump's foreign policy inconsistencies prove an obstacle to his nomination and they'll quote like barack obama making fun of him. they do a new one every day. >> certainly not today. >> i know because we're going to show some polls that show it's
like big wheels keep on rolling. >> oh, no. >> whatever. so this is "the new york times" headline today. losing sting. i want us to pay attention to the first two words today, children. losing sting, trump blames gop system. because he's doing what we say would be a smart thing to do. the system's rigged. the system's rigged. today he's losing steam, everybody. and now we turn to our daily rags of new york polls. >> okay. >> mika. >> and then we will introduce -- three new polls. >> write then down m your grits if you're from the south. losing steam. >> three new polls show donald trump running away with the new york primary. the quinnipiac poll shows trump with a 25 point lead at 55%. baruch college shows him leading at 60%. >> very important, mika. >> yes. >> though that poll shows him at 60%, i really think the ceiling is, what is it, 22, 23% as other
people have been saying? >> this baruch poll shows a 43 point lead and the new sienna college research institute poll puts trump at 50%. >> so losing sting, mark halpern? losing sting. >> he does have a delegate problem potentially. >> losing sting. what's after that? >> after new york the contests stay in the northeast with five more states the following week and -- >> i'm sure he's saying the steam being let out of the pot. >> i haven't given these numbers yet but, yeah, here we go. >> wilted here in these states. >> new numbers from two of those states have trump well ahead as well. trump is at 50% in connecticut. >> that doesn't sound like he's losing steam. >> kasich is at 26% and cruz is at 17% in connecticut. the new nbc 4 marist poll has trump 41%, cruz 29%, kasich 24%.
>> losing steam? >> yeah. can i -- i think that you sum it up best in the washington post -- >> let's let other people talk. >> oh, really? >> i'm a little shy right now. >> with us we have the co-host of "with all due respect" mark halpern, dave ignatius, al hunt and political reporter for the washington post and msnbc political analyst robert kosta. >> you reported on the trail out there, obviously a big delegate battle right now going on but certainly trump, whose demise has been predicted in many quarters since oshkosh went for ted cruz is now losing steam pretty well in the northeast, rolling over everybody. >> the calendar favors trump, northeast. >> yeah. >> you go to new york, he goes to pennsylvania. pennsylvania is a tough state for trump. you think the philadelphia
suburbs, kasich has been doing well in some pennsylvania polls. generally speaking, based on my reporting and talking to strategists, the northeast is better for trump. you've got maryland, pennsylvania, new york. >> the problem is, al, once you get out of the early states, this has always been the case, you just -- the pace picks up so quickly. it's been so much money. then you start getting to the northeast. this is where mccain locked things down, more winner take all. but cruz and kasich and even trump, they can't afford to spend the type of money on ads to bend the curve on these numbers. it's celebrity, it's name i.d., momentum. that seems to be helping him. >> trump, he doesn't have to spend that money. bob's absolutely right. april's the kindest month of the year for trump. this is the calendar that really favors him. >> right. >> i guess a little bit less favorable in may and june 7th. >> california obviously is massive. >> and others. but he has to run up -- i go back to what mark said.
he has to run up a big delegate advantage this month to be close to 1237. >> right. >> he has to win 85 delegates in new york, not 55 or 60. he has to sweep connecticut. he may well be able to do that based on those polls. >> right. >> it's not just winning, it's the size of the victories, particularly where you have winner take all. >> those look great but in the end i suspect we are all going to be looking at california, which is pretty exciting because new york is relevant. after wisconsin, new york was very relevant. now i think even the trump people are admitting this is probably going to all come down to california. >> this is one of the best political stories i can remember. >> it's incredible, isn't it? >> it rolls from key primary to even more key primary. >> yeah. >> all the way to the convention. the one thing that, you know, i have to say to your question of whether trump is losing steam, you know, the steam calibrator is a little bit cloudy for me, but the question is is he on track to get 1,237 delegates by july in cleveland?
>> right. >> right now people i trust like al hunt and mark halpern who know these numbers say it looks difficult. if that's so, joe, you know, the precise daily steam calibration is down, what's going happen at the convention? >> here is where the steam does make sense. if trump stumbles in, trump cuts him off at the knees to say i am the only one to beat donald trump, he's the guy that's losing steam right now if you look at the polls. kasich's beating him in most of the northeast states. it's going to be a cruel month for him in the northeast. we don't know how that -- >> get clobbered in new york. >> impacts him. >> on the other side of that though is, again, going with this, if trump is rolling up 50% wins, 55% wins, 47% wins and he goes into the convention 100 down, it's going to be really
hard. with that momentum behind him for them to -- >> a lot of the parties say if he doesn't have 1237 they're going to fight him on the second ballot. that's the big divide. there is an argument to be made, trump will make it, he'll have the political capitol. if he doesn't have the number, the rules are set, he doesn't have it just as a gift to him. >> yeah. if he goes in with 1150, how many are real trump people? that's different. may only be 950 would be real trump people. you go to a second ballot and most of the delegates are -- >> don't under estimate the period between california and the convention. those six weeks are where trump can go try to get the delegates he needs if he's short through uncommitted delegates who he can have committed to him by the time of cleveland. >> so as -- >> and, again, how much harder is it going to be if he's winning 33 to 30 to 27% versus 55% to 22% to 16%? you just heard paul ryan right
now who is the conscience of the republican party saying, hey, it's not going to be anybody that's selected that wasn't in this race, that didn't fight it out. i have a feeling if that's how paul ryan feels about it, he's most everybody's knight in shining armor to come in and rescue the party from itself, then that's probably going to be what everybody else thinks. and if trump is trouncing ted cruz by 30 points in some of the biggest states, i'm just saying, that momentum is going to be hard to reject. >> so as the fight over the convention delegates drags on, donald trump is calling out the republican national committee chairman by name. in an interview with the hill trump called the nomination process a scam, a disgrace and that reince priebus should be ashamed of himself. he should be ashamed of him self because he knows what's going on and he did not stop there. >> our republican system, our republican system is absolutely
rigged. it's a phony deal. this was a dirt yy trick. these are dirty tricksters. i'll tell you why. the rnc, the republican national committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. the rules are no good when you don't get democracy. the rules are no good when they don't count your vote. when they don't -- like in colorado. the rules are no good when you have to play dirty tricks in order to pick up delegates, okay? the party is playing dirdy a ii we've got to show our republican party you've been disenfranchised. everybody has. you have to show the republican party they can't get away with this stuff any longer. >> very exciting. bernie sanders is going to rome and he was in rome last night. >> and it wasn't rome, new york. all right. >> he was in rome. >> chairman priebus responded last night on twitter.
quote, nomination process known for a year and beyond. it's the responsibility of the campaigns to understand is it. complaints now? give us all a break. but i just want to say, didn't he just make -- didn't they create these rules a few months ago? this isn't like -- >> it's a state by state -- >> colorado. >> i learned from joe scarburg as a little boy, basically we believe in -- >> states know best. watching and listening to the radio. he'd listen to my voice on the house floor. >> help me out. >> joe told me that basically about evolution. it's the states that know much better. >> they are not giving -- >> tell me. >> the rules are set by the federal government. >> colorado set those rules, reince priebus didn't set them. >> when? i'm asking when? >> over the last several years. >> david said how exciting it's been. wait until we get to cleveland if no one has a majority and we start seeing challenges. >> it's going to be great. no, this is going to be like christmas eve. >> i will start smoking cigars
again. >> oh, this is -- so listen. on what's happening there. bob kosta, i like reince, okay? so reince is a good guy, but i zblsh what are you about to say? >> no, i'm just saying. what people need to understand is that when trump's doing, it's what we've been saying the past couple of days, that's what any smart candidate in this position would do. >> but will it get him the snums. >> he's beating -- that's not -- you know what, bobby knight when he was running up and down the court screaming and throwing chairs onto the court, you know, he didn't do that to get the numbers, he did that to work the crowd and the crowd's getting into it behind him and -- >> there's a cruz ad out in california that talks about whining not winning. >> yeah. >> i do think trump has to be a little bit careful about that. his consistent motivators, on tv is about winning, he's a winner. how many times in each speech he
says, we don't win enough, i win. i think it's an effective challenge for cruz to say now that it's going against you in colorado you're whining. >> i was calling around -- >> the thing is, he's doing this while he's 30, 40 points ahead in these polls. >> there's a lot of intrigue hand these rnc comments behind priebus. trump is not raising money on his own. all dollar donations but no major fundraising. if he's a nominee he has to rely on the republican national committee. they have the presidential trust which is the millions of dollars the rnc could pour towards the presidential nominee. there is a lot of concern that if trump gets a nomination he's going to try to push priebus out and try to take control of the rnc apparatus. there's a lot of jockeying right now. >> here's a crisis for donald trump long run. i think he's going to blow through the states in the northeast. he may not get 1237. i think he's going to get the nominee -- nomination, i just do. i think there's nobody else out
there that can get close to it. i do think though, leading off of what bob said there, his real crisis is here's a guy that's self-funding his own campaign. he's cheap about it. he said he's not going to take outside money. he's fighting a war with the rnc. i've talked to a lot of republican donors, a lot of republican donors who say not only am i not giving this man money, he's going to be the first republican i'm not voting for in the general election and they'll whisper, i can't believe i'm going to vote for hillary. so the problem is, al, that we're going to get into the summer and unless things change in some pretty dramatic way, hillary's going to blow him out financially. >> oh, well he is an atm machine for her. she's going to raise all kinds of money, even more than she would have raised because of the sp spectre of donald trump. i think bob is absolutely right. he's got to somehow make peace of sorts because he needs that
money. i'm told -- i'm not a billionaire, joe, that will come as a shock. >> really? >> i'm told by other billionaires -- >> a billionaire doesn't pay him a billion. >> he is a not liquid enough. >> i tonight know whether he is or not. he's not going to spend the money. >> let me add to your words al. you write to stump trump rivals should be in cahoots. i want to read from your piece in washington post maybe next block or this block. cruz and kasich have the same goal, to prevent trump from getting close to the 1237 nominees he needs for the nomination. yet in remaining contests in new york, california, new jersey, else where the battle between the two of them sets back that effort. instead they should be colluding. that's perfectly legal. effectively dividing up some states, playing to their effective strengths. cruz's strategy has been to get a one-on-one contest with trump, while kasich's has been to win late primaries to demonstrate
electability in hopes of being chosen in a deadlocked convention in cleveland in july. these plans have been overtaken by events, sticking to them helps trump. >> if kasich got out, trump wins 95 delegates in new york. he may win them anyway. >> right. >> if kasich gets out trump sweeps connecticut, sweeps marry lands. >> right. >> at some point in indiana they're all three going to go at it. but it is perfectly legal to divide up. there ought to be some kind of -- >> might be the only way. >> it is the only way. for instance, in california cruz is going to be able to carry a lot more of those 53 districts than kasich can. kasich can carry some or at least be competitive. one on one against trump in new jersey, only one who has any shot would be kasich. >> this would call for ted cruz to be self-aware about his chances. >> there's our ted cruz knock for the morning by mika. >> al's absolutely right in where we are today which is if one of them got out, trump would win i think decease civilly because neither of them has shown the ability to engage
trump. kasich gave a great speech yesterday about the path forward and how he's different, but the game for the two of them is to stop them from getting the majority. they're clearly stronger doing it. i will say, it's hard to engage trump. there are no debates left. they're all in different states most days. it's very hard to create a public contrast which is what they need to do to slow them down. still a led, chicken little time. we're joined by someone warning for weeks of what he thinks could be a worse case scenario in cleveland. >> if mayor de blasio had a magic wand would he get rid of super delegates? >> i would say it differently. they are legitimate. and a big constituency. i think there's a valid question going forward. what's the best way to encourage maximum participation. >> the system is rigged. the system is rigged. >> after he wins we'll look at it. >> it's staggering. >> i like de blasio but --
>> you look at wyoming. if bernie wins by 12 points he loses in the delegate count. >> yeah. >> talk about disenfranchising voters. >> after hillary wins we'll all take a look at that. is it time for the delegates to rethink super delegates? our political roundtable continues when we come back. body pain? motrin helps you be an unstoppable, i-can-totally-do-this- all-in-one-trip kind of woman. when pain tries to stop you, there's motrin.
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we're going to get to more of that in just a moment, but first i'm going to read a portion of joe's piece in the washington post, don't cry for us, we aren't argentina. did you hear that? >> joe liked it a lot. >> i'm so exhausted by decades of screamers on talk radio and cable news and the legions of angry partisans who spend their days and nights predicting america's clams. now these histrionics have risen to a new mind numbing roar with media outlets across the political spectrum warning of a solitary man so cunningly evil that he alone possesses the ability to destroy american democracy in a single bounce. never mind that only a few months back these same outlets dismissed donald trump as a bulgarian stooge spawned from the cultural backwash that pollutes our reality tv culture. as with most of bush and obama's sworn enemies, donald trump's antagonists can't decide whether he is a bloated dunce or an all powerful super villain set to appear in the next "avengers"
movie. you actually quote gene because somebody said to him on the air, oh, my gosh, we're turning into argentina. it's going to be like argentina at its worst time. >> i heard krcrypto fassist. they said he was mussolini, hitler and stalin all at the same time. you've heard this chatter repeatedly. the fact of the matter is it's insanity. and as gene said at the end, when somebody on the set said, god, we're turning into argentina, gene said, you know what, i lived in argentina for four years. guys, we're not even close to argentina. just relax. i think everybody can just relax. it's to me, al hunt, you've seen this, i talked about historically going back to the clinton years, guys like me and the republicans saying he was going to bring about the end of the great republic, then bush
comes in and we hear the histrionics from the other side. then obama comes in and somebody renames a post office and a republican runs to the floor and says, mr. speaker, tonight freedom has died a bloody death. and, you know -- >> you lie. >> thank you, lugo. >> they do it for everything. i said if i had a nickel for every time i heard a republican say that during the obama years i'd have enough money to sit next to george clooney at a political fund-raiser. it's just the extremes that are out there, and now everybody's jumping on trump saying he's the next stalin or hitler. >> well, we're not only not argentina, we probably in many ways are the strongest economy in the world. >> right. >> we have come back from 2008, 2009 much better than the europeans are. we wouldn't want to trade our problems today for the chinese problems. you know, we have problems, to be sure. >> right. >> but, you know, we're not doing that badly. there are a lot of good things
going on. that's not what campaigns are about though. >> right. >> the opposition party whether it's democrats, republicans, wants to talk about how democrats are. >> it's also, bob, you look at the fact this political season, i love the fact that in the beginning we were complaining there weren't enough debates. what i hear now is, oh, my god, is there going to be another political forum. >> another town hall. >> i'm sorry. if you add up our access to candidates in political forums and interviews across the spectrum, this is the golden age. >> yeah. >> of political reporting. look at the washington post. look at what -- >> so tell us about your interview with trump. >> and bloomberg. >> i think on your piece, any time politicians are comparing politics to hitler is not a good thing. when will they learn not to do that anymore. >> it doesn't pay. >> i think it's remarkable basically 100 days out you have the chairman of the rnc and the republican front-runner at odds publicly. it's remarkable. this was our fourth interview
with donald trump. this was the most serious i have seen him. he had his game face on. >> say that again. say that again. >> fourth interview with donald trump and this was the most serious he has been. >> and that's part of what i'm talking about, david ignatius, the access. not just donald trump, bernie sanders. we had bernie for 30, 40 minutes the other day. hillary was on a couple of days before that. there are town hall meetings on cable news every other night. >> this is a political season the likes of which i do not remember, and it's partly because the country really is, i think, in transition. i think we really -- some new kind of politics is being born this year, and it's bumpy. i have to say, some of the anxiety is about donald trump i actually share. >> right. >> it's into the argentina but there's some big issues. >> of course. >> we all share those concerns and we've all expressed those concerns but, you know, town hall meetings. >> there's two more tomorrow night. >> two more tomorrow night. i know cnn usually has about 17 every night. >> they had one last night with the trump family.
>> they had one last night. access to the candidates the likes of which we haven't seen. you have a question for bob? >> well, you know, bob, part of what's going on with reince is his constituency is not just the national committee but his donors. what i hear is his donors are all telling him trump can't win a general election. he's under enormous pressure to not produce a nominee who his donors don't think they can show. >> big foot, the lock ness monster and paul ryan's campaign. will he/won't he drama will be covered from the start. tomorrow, senator claire mccaskill, yeah, claire, will join us live. >> she's back. >> you've got to watch out. i suggest you take the day off. >> i hope the cardinals win. >> we'll be right back.
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you've still talked about kind of changing your tone from time to time maybe even soon. do you think that's actually going to happen? a lot of people have been saying, look, you've been talking about that for a while. maybe he's not capable of doing it. >> i'm very capable of doing it. it's easier to do it. it's easier to -- >> so why not? >> because i have two more people i have to take out and when i take them out i will be so presidential you won't believe it. then of course i'll start on hillary and i'll be a little bit less presidential. assuming i win i will be very, very -- the country will be very proud of me.
>> wow. okay. joining us now in washington, nbc news correspondent luke russert who covers capitol hill and columnist for "bloomberg view" and jonathan cape back with us as well. luke, what's he saying there. translate. >> i don't necessarily speak trumpian. >> i do. i can translate. >> what do you think he said? >> it's going to be very ugly. >> yes. he's gone on the recent rants saying that hillary clinton is a liar, that she's lied her entire life. her life is a lie. but i think that that was more along the lines of showing his beautiful family. you know, give trump credit, his kids aually have i think weathered the scrutiny of the media throughout -- >> his kids are amazing. >> -- this very well. >> yeah, i know his kids and each one is more impressive than the other. paul ryan, you cover capitol hill. >> yeah. >> what do you make of sort of
the stake he's putting in the ground. you know he didn't want to be speaker and look at him. >> i asked him that question. he compared the speaker's race to the presidential race as apples to oranges. >> okay. >> in this case it's legitimate. he was an elected member of congress in the speaker's race and he did have to fill a void that was left by bone nehner. the difference here is that he's very much outspoken about having not put himself through the gauntlet, having not raised the money to run for president, not go through the primary system and he's believing that he can be more useful for the republican party running a parallel campaign, showcasing what the party can be in the future, more inclusive party, upward mobility, talking about poverty, talking perhaps about immigration, criminal justice reform. these types of issues that are not front and center of the republican party right now. he thinks he's more valuable doing that. what i think will be interesting is usually the speaker of the house of the same party -- who's the same party of the nominee,
they're usually like this. boehner and romney, they were very tight. mcconnell. you could see a cruz or a trump diverge greatly from what's going to go on in the house and the senate and how that is reconciled in the republican party will be a fascinating story from here to november. >> margaret. >> ryan is more helpful not running in what he -- you know, what he says about the party and where we have to go than if he were. it's hard for those of us who aren't covering the congress as closely as you are to hear his no because we heard his no before. >> right. >> so that no doesn't sound as much like a no. but didn't he open the door yesterday or the day before to others who are not still in the race being considered? >> so that's what was interesting. he said in this press conference yesterday, i would like the rules committee of the gop convention to essentially write a rule that says anyone who would be our nominee has to have
run for president. >> right. >> and open the door to 17, 18 others. he wanted to do that. that does open the door to his home state governor, scott walker, marco rubio who's had very similar lines. >> jeb bush. >> jeb bush wouldn't that be -- >> who by the way has decided not to come to the convention. we'll see if that changes. >> the question is partly why did ryan do this? there's been a whisper campaign among donors and many elected officials to get ryan to consider being on the second ballot. ryan recognizes and many people around him recognize that the party has changed. that someone who came up as an ally of jack kemp, who's on the supply side part of the wing of the party, who's pro free trade, who's pro immigration reform, this is a party that's shifted away from the romney/ryan model in 2012 and is more populus. trump doesn't want to touch social security. ryan ran on that for years. so this is a different party. it's not just a logistical and timing problem for ryan, it's about the politics of the party.
joining us from atlanta, the chairman of the republican national lawyers' association and a member of the rnc rules committee, randy evans. thank you very much for being on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> yesterday you warned of a worst case scenario at the convention. can you describe what that would look like? >> what that would look like is if we got to the end of the four days and we couldn't have a candidate reach 1237 delegates. under the current rules basically what will happen is we will have nominations. currently you have to have the majority of eight states demonstrate their support for you to get your name put in nomination. and then after your name is in nomination, they start the call of the roll. rule 40e you don't hear about, it says at the end of the roll call the secretary will tally the numbers. if no one receives 1237, you start calling the roll again. and it will be the same candidates that were nominated before. there's no provision to add a
paul ryan, to add a jeb bush, to add another candidate. it will only be those candidates that started with that will be the names that will be in nomination as we go through the rolls. >> so who -- everybody or who does that -- who are we left with then? >> well, right now we'd just be left with ted cruz and donald trump. they're the only two who have won off won or demonstrated support of eight states. you would continue on until one or the other received the 1237. >> okay. so here's donald trump yesterday responding to criticism that he may not have known the rnc's actual delegate rules on the state level. >> you call them shenanigans. didn't you know the rules? >> i know the rules very well but i know that it's stacked against me by the establishment. i fully understand it. >> your critics say it says something about your leadership ability for somebody who touts himself who's an organizational
genius, who's created this organizational business. you couldn't create a group on the ground. >> i won most of it. what about organization? how come i'm leading by hundreds of delegates? how come i'm leading by millions of votes? >> the point that donald trump was making is that the process in colorado was being abused and, you know, it's not that the rules themselves were unknown, it's the way the rules were applied. the thing is if it was only in colorado then he'd say it was just unorganized, but we're seeing the same mistakes in colorado, in missouri, in a couple -- louisiana. and so the mistakes are not really mistakes. it's a pattern. >> a pattern of what? >> a pattern of at the local levels abusing the amateurness of the enthusiasm of republicans who want to participate in the process and are being cut out by back room tactics that is the hallmark of the cruz campaign. >> okay. randy evans, bob kosta actually has the question of the morning,
i think, about this, because the rules do seem, whether, you know, you are blinded by what you feel about trump or not, the rules do seem questionable on both sides of the aisle. i think we're running into some problems with voters not really counting. go ahead, bob. >> mr. evans, can't the rules be changed in the week preceding the convention? and please, if you could, give us some insight into what rnc members and rnc rules committee members are discussing about possible changes to the rules in terms of welcoming or allowing new candidates to come in or raising the threshold that you need for the nomination. >> well, first of all, let me say that i think both louisiana and colorado did prove that donald trump's a neophyte when it came to the republican party rules. it's almost like a baseball game when you get to the seventh inning. >> but can't the rules be changed at the convention. >> -- and started complaining because -- started complaining because what do you mean there's four balls but three strikes. there should be four balls but four strikes. >> the rules --
>> the rules have always been the rules. >> they can be changed though, can they not? >> they can only be changed now by the convention itself, and it won't even be the rules committee. there's been a lot of talk about oh, the rules committee could get together and form all of these rules, but those rules still have to be adopted by the 1237 delegates on the floor of the republican national convention. now what happened last time was that governor romney's team came in with voting control of the convention and they decided they department want any other name in nomination. so how did they do that? they raised the threshold so you had to have the support or demonstrate the support of eight states. they knew that only governor romney was the one that could meet that threshold so that he would be the only name that would receive votes from the floor when the balloting started. so, sure, whoever gets there, if we have a presumptive nominee that has 1237 delegates, they're going to be able to change the rules in however they want. >> okay. >> a more likely scenario is the
scenario that we all see. it looks like we run ten scenarios a day. it looks like currently there's only one remote scenario where donald trump gets to the 1237, nine out of the ten say he doesn't. >> yeah. >> most of them reflect he'll end up about 75 to 100 delegates short. >> right. >> mr. evans -- mr. evans, luke russert here. i have a question because yesterday there was a very interesting story on the front page of the washington post that detailed the lobbying efforts underway currently or that could occur between campaigns and rnc rules members and delegates talking about hotel stays, vacations, very lucrative gift bags. this is a very anti-establishment move. how do you think the republican party, which is right now the energy in the party is the anti-establishment wing, how do they reconcile perhaps handing the nomination to somebody who did not get the total number of votes? donald trump more likely than not will lead in the total number and the total delegates
as well as talking about all the stories that are going to come about about certain members getting vacations, gift bags, hotel stays? are you guys prepared to deal with that pr fallout? and what do you say to the angry republican voter that has accounted for all of this energy when they see this play out in july? >> listen, delegates to the national convention get bombarded with gifts the same way the attendees to the academy awards get bombarded. there are gift bags, there are gift everything. that's not going to be anything new. what i do expect is this. if donald trump exceeds 1100 votes he will become the nominee even though he may not have 1237. if he gets less than 1,000 delegates, then i think we're looking at a contested convention that could go on for many, many days. and then in the middle there is that gray area between 1,000 and 1100 and that's where the unbound delegates or the delegates that have been released by other candidates come into play to see if there
are enough of those to get either cruz or trump over the finish line. we won't know that until we get past california in june. >> member of the rnc rules committee, randy evans. thank you very much. >> thank you. still ahead, nearly 40,000 verizon workers walked off the job this morning and there's no word yet on when they will return. what this means for customers next on "morning joe." safety doesn't come in a box. it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. at bp, it's training and retraining in state-of-the-art simulators so we're better prepared for any situation. it's giving offshore teams support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. so everyone comes home safely.
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♪ he has a sharp wit. a winning smile. and no chance of getting an athletic scholarship. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade. time now for business before the bell with cnbc's dominic chu. dominic, tell us about the impact of this verizon strike. >> reporter: good morning, mika. the strike is a protest of verizon putting profits over people in an effort to save good jobs here, middle class jobs in the u.s. all of this they say verizon is doing to both the detriment of employ yeeees and customers the
serve. this will affect workers from massachusetts to virginia. they work in the telephone line and internet businesses at verizon. they've been working without a contract since last summer and reports are that both sides are still pretty far apart on a potential deal for that new contract. striking workers are members of two main unions, the communications workers of america and the international brother hood of electrical workers. a few of the big sticking points involve pension benefits, whether they should be capped or not at a certain level. also, workers claim that the company is looking to move the call center jobs overseas. verizon wants to structure a deal to allow calls to be rerouted based on volume. also an issue on temporary work assignments that could last about two months. verizon has put up, guys, a 6.5% pay raise on the table but that's only enough to cover the rise or cuts they have in the health care benefits. back to you. >> cnbc's dominic chu. thank you so much. up next, we are still
buzzing on the set about what that member from the rules committee just told us. is what -- what is the new 1237? >> 1100. >> 1100 is the new 1237. i think we might have made some news. >> yeah. >> we'll talk about that straight ahead. >> let's see how powerful this guy is. at mfs investment management, we believe in the power of active management. by debating our research to find the best investments. by looking at global and local insights to benefit from different points of view. and by consistently breaking apart risk to focus on long-term value. we actively manage with expertise and conviction. so you can invest with more certainty. mfs. that's the power of active management.
guy told us. please translate, luke. >> he said if donald trump gets 1100 votes, 1100 delegates, pledge delegates, then he will be the nominee. >> isn't the rule 1237? >> it is. >> isn't he on the rules committee. >> it seems he admitted what's inside the belief if you hit the 1100 that's the new 1237. >> we've got to cut. listen to this. this is randy evans. >> what i do expect to happen is this, is that if donald trump exceeds 1100 votes, he will become the nominee even though he may not have 1237. if he gets less than 1,000 delegates, then i think we're looking at a contested convention that could go on for many, many days. then in the middle there's that gray area between 1,000 and 1100, that's where the unbound delegates or the delegates that have been released by other candidates come into play to see if there are enough of those to get either cruz or trump over the finish line. >> bob kosta, does he make --
1100 is the new 1237. >> i think mr. evans is reflective of how a lot of these rnc members and senior members see the race. kind of like in baseball when you haven't clinched a playoff spot but everyone sees you have enough wins to be in the playoffs. >> mike allen? >> mika, in the break we were talking about why the republican convention is like dating and momentum matters in dating. momentum matters here. you have the rules and reality. if trump looks strong, if he's winning going into it, if he puts a california campaign together, which he's a little late on, it's going to be tough and ugly to deny it. >> what am i missing? this is the first time i've heard if he comes well below 1237 he still can make it through? >> he said one other thing that was interesting. >> yeah. >> that wasn't in the bite which shows you why he can pull 1100 out and then say it fits into the rules, is that they manipulated the rules so that
only mitt romney fit the new rule so that he would benefit from it. so they can do anything. they're the king. >> yeah. i think the a.p. style now is the rulesish committee. >> if you're a ted cruz person you heard that on the air saying 1100 is the new 1237 you're going to go up and scream and yell and say the process is just as flawed. >> with great flair. >> it's chaotic. >> the rules committee, yeah. and we've seen this week cruz has like a very important new message and that's matt grudge on the grudge report, talking about voterless victories that donald trump is getting. that's where cruz is outsmarting the trump campaign in these delegate selection contests working the rules and if they become the rules, that's going to be a problem. >> the reason why a lot of these party members don't want to have the 1237 threshold, they don't want riots in cleveland.
they don't want chaos. if trump gets close enough they want to prevent some revolt. >> there's going to be chaos. listen to donald trump yesterday, the anger he was channelling was incredible. that week before the convention it sounds like anything can happen. >> it's just ugly. it's very ugly. when you couple in with what the post reported about these rules members getting these gifts, getting solicitations. >> flights, i love that. >> flights, gift bags. >> not a legal process. >> this is all going to play out on television. 1976 none of this played out on tv. this will play in tv, be in politico, it will be the wild west. >> do they do it in primetime, do they push it into the daytime? >> oh, my god, i'm getting tired. mike allen, robert kosta. luke russert and margaret carlson, thank you very much. before we go i just want to thank the center for strategic and international studies for having us last night.
it was the first brzezinski award. wonderful event. the first recipient, bob gates. and i watched my dad sitting with bob gates, john warner and some of the greatest minds in foreign policy, and it was such an honor. there's john henry, the head of csis, a wonderful man. it was a great night. we thank you very much for having us there. that does it for us this morning. steve kornacki picks up the coverage after a quick break.
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all right. good morning. i'm steve kornacki, and topping our agenda right now, get over it. that is the message to donald trump from the republican party's national chairman. it's also coming from some who defended trump in the past but who now are turning on him, like rush limbaugh. >> our republican system is absolutely rigged. it's a phony deal. >> this comes as ted cruz is tightening his grip on delegates who would be free to switch allegiances on a second ballot at the republican national convention. a story this morning says that cruz would now be favored to beat trump if trump can't get a majority on that