tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC April 13, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
and good afternoon to you. i'm steve kornacki from new york. well, they are supposed to be on the same side. but donald trump and the republican national committee are knee-deep in an increasingly public and bitter feud over delegate rules. the party's national chairman is basically telling trump, get over it. and that is just the first headline on what is a particularly busy day for the republican front-runner. there are protests in front of trump tower in new york. also, how about this? trump met today with fox news host megyn kelly. that was just a short time ago. of course, trump and kelly have been locked in an increasingly bitter battle of public words over the last few months.
trump also has an event in pittsburgh for three hours, from now. and then tomorrow, nbc news has confirmed that a meeting will take place among donald trump's supporters in congress. there are nine of them right now. this as ted cruz tightens his grip on delegates, who would be free to switch allegiances if the republican convention goes to a second ballot in cleveland this summer. there is a new story today that says if it got to a second ballot, ted cruz would now be favored to beat donald trump at that republican convention. a lot to talk about there. and it is not exactly a quiet day on the democratic side of things, either. bernie sanders, he has locked up his first endorsement from a sitting united states senator. it comes from jeff merkley from oregon. sanders himself is in brock lin tod lin today. look at the hero's welcome he got rallying a crowd of verizon workers who are out on strike. all right, our team of
correspondents, they are all out covering campaigns today. first, we're going to turn to katy tur in pittsburgh, as we said, trump has that rally scheduled for three hours, now, in pittsburgh. but, katy, the thing has everybody talking right now, donald trump and megyn kelly, back together in a meeting today. of course, this all started over the summer at that first republican debate. megyn kelly led off the debate by reading off to donald trump some comments he had made about women through the years. donald trump has been vicious in going at her since then. now they're meeting. what do we know about this? >> reporter: well, we know what fox news has released, which is that they've been trying to get him to basically come into a town hall with her for quite a while now. and what they're doing -- excuse me, there's feedback in my ear. so what fox news is saying is that megyn kelly was able to get to the trump tower, meet with donald trump, and in that meeting, whatever happened, what they're going to do is reveal it tonight on "the kelly files."
it seems as if something is happening and they're going to use this controversial meeting to get some ratings tonight, at the very least. >> all right, katy tur in pittsburgh on the trump beat there. we will see what more we learn about that. again, donald trump and megyn kelly getting together and meeting today. meanwhile, on long island, here in new york, where the primary is going to be held next week, a group of religious leaders and activists are demanding that the republican party and its leaders cancel an event donald trump is scheduled to attend tomorrow night. the event is in suffolk county, on long island here in new york. the group says that trump isn't welcome, and they accuse the suffolk county republican party, which is sponsoring this event, that trump is supposed to take part in, they are accusing the suffolk county republican party of capitalizing on a climate of intolerance to raise money. msnbc's cal perry joins me now from long island. he is inside the venue, where trump is headlining that event. so, cal, what's going on out there? we know long island on the
republican side looks like a pretty fertile source of votes for donald trump, but also, controversy comes with that. >> reporter: yes, swirling controversy about the location of the event. as you said, we managed to get our way inside. this is the kboelmporiuemporium. this event is causing a great deal of controversy and it surrounds an incident from 2008. an ecuadorian immigrant was stabbed about 300 meters from this location. he died in this brutal hate crime. and it really drove a wedge in this town. and this town felt like it had come a long way until the announcement of this event. now, people are laying the blame at the republican party, specifically at the chairman for the republican party. we had a chance to speak to him yesterday. here was his reaction to that criticism. >> does that mean that, you know, no one's allowed to have anything in new york city, where there numerous hate crimes that occur. and cities across this country. so to pick this, you know, one
issue, i think is wrong. i think that you have a situation where people are -- they're exploiting this circumstance, this horrible tragedy that occurred in our community. and they're exploiting the family. >> reporter: now, we have heard the other side of this argument, which is, of course, that donald trump has a first-amendment right to come here and speak. and that's what a lot of his supporters are, of course, saying. is this is where some of the most expensive tickets are going for, these seats here, which will have the best seats. and they've also created a press pen. outside the event, police are getting ready. they've shut down a number of streets, pretty much a two to three-block radius. the event here is scheduled for a 5:00 p.m. start. he's got to make one in manhattan, a 7:00 p.m. we're told he's going to take a private chopper from here to there. steve? >> cal perry on long island, where that trump event is slated for later on. thanks for that, cal. obviously, a lot going on today. we've got that trump event on long island. we've got the news of megyn
kelly and donald trump meeting. we've got our panel now to join us to break it all down. eliana johnson, the national editor for the "national review." susan page is the washington bureau chief for "usa today." susan, let me start with you. donald trump and megyn kelly. this has been a fascinating story line in this campaign, dating back to that first republican debate. a lot of people say, donald trump will eventually have to make peace with her and fox news. might we be seeing a step in that direction now? >> that might be one of those steps donald trump is trying to take as he tries to get down the final steps toward the republican nomination. he d two things today. he met with megyn kelly. also hired rick wiley. rick wiley is not exactly the household name that megyn kelly, but he's a very established republican operative with deep roots. worked with reince priebus for the senate campaign committee, for the rnc in previous presidential campaigns, including in scott walker's campaign. and i think you put those two things together and you see donald trump right to take care of the things that are creating problems for him, as he tries to
get over the finish line, before the convention. >> eliana, this battle between trump and megyn kelly, this broader battle between donald trump and fox news. sometimes i look at it, and we're trained to say, who's winning and who's losing? i do kind of wonder if both have gotten something out of this, though. >> i'm with you, steve, on that. i think trump was very savvy in pushing back against megyn kelly. it allows him to look like a strong man and like a winner. he's not going to take any good enough from anybody. and befriending sean hannity, who's become a champion of sorts, with his. and it also allows fox, on the other hand, to look like it is the fair and balanced news network it claims to be, by sticking up for megyn kelly in her fight with donald trump and having a host who's friendly to him. i actually think the dispute has benefited both parties and i'll be interested to see what comes of this meeting and how the coverage changes. but i'm with you. i think it's been a mutually beneficial dispute. >> so, let's take a bigger
picture look, susan, at the republican race right now. and after wisconsin last week, it seemed that conventional wisdom immediately jumped to, that's it. we have an open convention. there's no way donald trump's going to hit that number. but the polls here in new york suggest that donald trump has a real chance of getting all 95 delegates that are going to be up for grabs here next week, if you go a week after that, a bunch of other states around the northeast. he could claim most if not close to all of those delegates. i'm still seeing a path for donald trump. after all of the turmoil he's had in the last week, i still see a path there for him to hit that number in the primaries. >> there's no question that wisconsin was a speed bump for donald trump and a warning sign. i think you're exactly right. we don't know he's going to win all the delegates in new york. it means he's got to get over 50% in every one of the 27 congressional districts to do that. but you're right in his home territory, where his supporter is his strongest. his best state so far has been massachusetts. a lot of characteristics that massachusetts and new york share. so we think it's going to be a good state for donald trump.
and you also have the comment by a member of the rnc rules committee on msnbc this morning, that if he gets to 1,100, it's going to be really hard to deny him the nomination, even if he's just a little short of 1,237. and i think common sense tells you that's probably right. >> and eliana, that's the other question here, because we know if donald trump finishes the process short of 1,237, but if he's won the most delegates, if he's won the most votes, if he's won the most states, we're already hearing this from his campaign. he'll be saying, you have no legitimate grounds to deny me the nomination. it's mechanically possible to do it, but you can't say it's a fair process at that point, to take it away from me. that's what trump would be saying. do you think that would hold weight with these delegates? >> you know, i'm not sure. that's certainly what we'll be hearing from the trump campaign, and i absolutely expect there to be a lot of pressure on the members of the rnc and the delegates who will be in cleveland to give trump the
nomination, if he falls short of 1,237. i also think there tremendous pressure on those same people to deny trump the nomination. and i know that there was a member of the rules committee who said, if he's at 1,100, it will be difficult to deny him the nomination. i'm not so sure. there are 112 members of that rules committee. we don't know who they all are, yet. they will convene not only next week at an rnc meeting, but also just days before the rnc officially comes into session, in cleveland this summer. and i'm just not so sure, there are also the unbound rubio delegates who could actually boost ted cruz's number on the first ballot of the convention. i really think we simply don't know what's going to happen. and there's a real urge to be certain and to want to say, you know, well, if trump reaches "x" number, he'll get it. i think we simply don't know. >> 1,100 does seem low to me, but i wonder if when it gets
under 1,237. there's also this issue, we mentioned this a minute ago, this is in "the washington post" today. this is looking at a second-ballot scenario. we haven't had a second ballot at a national political convention in over 60 years. but if trump can't on the first ballot hit a majority, "the washington post" ed o'keefe saying, cruz would be very well-positioned. then the reason is, you've had these state conventions where they actually choose the people who will be delegates. and it looks like some of these slots that are assigned for donald trump, they're pledged to vote for trump on the first ballot, but they're going in a lot of cases to cruz supporters, so that if you get to a second ballot, they'd be freed up. they could vote for him then, eliana, which i guess speaks to the organization question that's haunted donald trump the last few weeks. >> what we've heard from donald trump over the last couple of days is he's been saying that the republican primary process is rigged. and he's right, in a sense. it's rigged in favor of campaigns and candidates who have excellent ground games, and who have built out national organizations, which trump has not done.
and so, i agree with "the washington post" article, that if this goes to a second ballot, it's very likely that cruz will clinch the nomination, because he has meticulously organized and built out a ground organization where delegates are very likely to vote for him on a second ballot and help him reach that 1,237 majority. >> and susan, a lot of people are scratching their heads about why donald trump is still in his public comments right now focusing so much on the loss he suffered in colorado at that state convention, and what he calls the unfairness of it. when he's leading in new york, the next contest up. i'm thinking about it, though, and i'm wondering, it seems to me. look, it's real simple. it fires up his base. >> it definitely does. let me just disagree with something eliana just said. i think it's true after -- if donald trump doesn't get over the finish line in the first ballot, he'll do worse in the second ballot. he'll lose delegates. but i don't think we know -- of among the things we don't know, i don't think we know who wins that second ballot. and at the point when so many delegates are now unbound or free to vote for whomever they
want, it seems to me that then you're into a real scramble. and talk about a story that i hope i can cover. >> susan page, eliana johnson, this republican race, obviously, far from over at this point. a lot of scenarios to still play out over the next few months. thanks for the time. appreciate it. >> thank you. and still ahead, bernie sanders joins the picket line, as thousands of verizon workers look for better pay and job security. we'll show you some of that in just a bit. plus, senator angus king from maine and congressman steve israel join us later in this show. but first, donald trump airs his grievances about the republican party while ted cruz sets his sights on pennsylvania.
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. well, donald trump and the rnc are bickering over the republican nominating process, ted cruz today is turning his attention to pennsylvania. that's where at any moment, he's going to take the stage for a rally in erie, and that is where we find nbc's hallie jackson. she's been covering the cruz campaign for us. hallie, look, the polls have not been kind to ted cruz here in new york where they'll have the primary next tuesday, he's actually running behind kasich here in most polls. pennsylvania, though, also looks like a pretty steep climb for him. that's going to vote the next week after new york. >> reporter: right, same deal here in the keystone state, steve. look at the latest poll out from fox news, showing donald trump with a commanding lead. you've got john kasich at about 22% and ted cruz trailing kasich by a couple of points. that said, he is still coming out to try to compete in pennsylvania. this is his rally that should start in about ten minutes. we're behind the press riser here. you can see people still filing in. it looks kind of like your standard campaign rally, but i'm told by the folks who run this
pavilion that not a lot of politicians come by here. that's because it's actually an amusement park. we'll head out into the sunshine. as we talk about ted cruz's pennsylvania plan. a campaign aid tells me they are working on building organization in this state. really important because of those 54 unbound delegates, steve. in addition to the 17 that will be bound to whoever wins the primary here. right now, again, looking like donald trump is pretty strong. this is actually an amusement park. it's 120 years old. waldamere park. there's the roller coaster on this side, little thunder over here, and the grand daddy of them all, ravine thunder 2. ted cruz actually went out and rode on this roller coaster. he posted it on his facebook page and said, many people talk about the ups and downs of campaign, we decided to see for ourselves. this is ranked seventh best wooden outdoor roller coaster in the world by "amusement today" magazine. the campaign was tribying to ge the funnel cake stand open for the crowd coming in, but had no
luck. the closer primary is the one in new york. but it looks as though donald trump is so strong that he may be unstoppable when it comes to at least winning the primary. the question in new york, as we've been talking about, is whether trump will get over 50%. that's why you're seeing cruz tomorrow head to new york. he's going to do some campaigning there, because he wants to try -- his campaign wants to try to keep trump below that 50% threshold. and in a few districts, peel away some delegates in order to prevent a clean sweep by trump, which would obviously make trump's math easier to get to that 1,237 number he needs for the nomination. so, pennsylvania today, that rally set to begin in a couple of minutes. we'll see ted cruz rallying for the first time since monday when he was out in california. another state, june 7th, when he's right to pick up some delegates. the campaign feeling like they'll get at least half the delegates out there. >> hallie, the most important question, i don't believe you addressed there, did you ride the wooden roller coaster today? >> there is a caveat on this, which is that it's not open to the public, so senator cruz got
to ride it. we are pushing to maybe do some real journalism out on that ravine thunder 2 after the campaign rally. we'll keep you posted. >> there should be seats reserved for the press. although i have to tell you, the wooden roller coasters i was always terrified of. they shake and rattle and feel like they're going to fall apart at any minute. be careful if you do go on that. so hallie jackson in erie, pennsylvania, thank you for that report and that very interesting video of ted cruz on the roller coaster. and tomorrow night, how about this? an exclusive msnbc town hall with senator ted cruz. chuck todd's going to be moderating it. it's going to be held from buffalo, new york, 8:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow night. you are not going to want to miss that right here on msnbc. and up next, judge merrick garland holds court with a number of high-profile senators, including independent angus king. and angus king will join me, next. for a limited time, you can get a great deal on this passat. wow, it looks really good... volkswagen believes safety is very important... so all eleven models come standard
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on capitol hill today, meetings between supreme court nominee merrick garland and several sitting senators. this morning, senator angus king, an independent from maine, spoke with judge garland. he said he came to the conclusion that while the meetings do have some benefit, they are also, in some ways, circumventing the process. >> and it's occurred to me that what's really going onere is a slow-motion hearing without the public's ability to participate and observe. which i think is too bad. >> all right. and senator king joins me now from capitol hill. senator, thanks for taking a few minutes. so, this movement to actually get hearings for judge merrick garland, you need republicans to sign off on these things. what do you think the odds are that in this election year, they will budge and hold hearings? >> well, i think it's, i think you've got to be realistic, steve. they're holding pretty solid. a few, like my colleague, senator collins from maine, has said, sure, we ought to have
hearings. but as i was sitting there talking to judge garland this morning, i suddenly had the feeling, i wish the american people were looking over any shoulder and being able to hear and see and learn about this guy. he's very impressive. and i just, i'm just sort of flummoxed a it h eed as to why holding hearings. if folks don't want to vote for him in the end, they don't have to. obviously, that's not a requirement. but to not even allow the american people to meet this candidate and understand what his qualifications are, to me just doesn't make sense. he's an impressive guy. i came out of that meeting reassured by the nominee. >> okay, so, what impressed you? and what reassure ed you so muc? >> first thing, i would call him a conservative with a small "c." that is someone who is not a judicial activist. he has a very clear view of where the jurisdiction of the court stops and the political rules starts. what the lines are between congress and the regulatory bodies and the presidency and
the courts. he's not somebody who wants to go out and impose social policy on the law. he's very deliberative. he has a solid temperament and i asked him a lot of questions about, you know, where -- how to deal with regulatory agencies, which is something that the d.c. circuit does a lot of. and also, what his philosophy was of executive action. where should the role -- where should the lines be drawn? and he consistently came back with thoughtful, well-developed, principle--based decision making. and that's really what you want in a judge, it seems to me. >> you know, when i hear mitch mcconnell, a senate republican leader, talk about why he doesn't want to have hearings, doesn't want to have any movement on this nomination, invariably, one of the first things he messagesmentions is t years ago when samuel alito was the nominee of president bush, barack obama was part of a democratic senators who tried to
filibuster that nomination. they said they didn't want to have a vote on the nomination let alone be against alito going to the supreme court. would it help here if the president came out and made a more fulsome statement than he's made about his role in what's happened over the last generation on capitol hill, over how these nominations and how judicial nominations in general are treated? is there a role here for the president to own up to a little bit more of what his role was with that moment? >> well, i think it would be helpful if he would talk about that moment. and, you know, i think -- but the conclusion to that story is, alito was confirmed. and i think that's important. i talked to george mitchell, who was the majority leader, great senator from maine, about this. he was the majority leader when clarence thomas was confirmed. he was under pressure to filibuster that nomination. he refused to do so, because he said, that's not the right role to politicize the court. and he allowed that vote to go forward on a simple up or down. thomas was confirmed 52-48.
that's the way the process should work. and i don't see any reason why it shouldn't work this way. if that's what barack obama, senator, said ten years ago, i don't think that was the right position. but, you know, he had a constitutional responsibility to put a nominee forward. and it's now our job to meet our constitutional responsibility, not to approve, necessarily. i'm not saying that. but to at least provide a serious consideration. and by not holding hearings, the american people are being cut out of the process. they are not being given the opportunity to see what this man is like, what his values are, what his judicial philosophy is, and i think that's just wrong. >> all right. angus king, independent senator from maine, thanks for the time. >> thank you. >> and up next, bernie sanders makes a splash in brooklyn, jumping on the verizon picket line. this while hillary clinton picks up the endorsement of one of the largest newspapers in the country. the "new york daily news." new york congressman steve israel join us next to weigh in
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today you are standing on not just justice for verizon workers, you're standing up for millions of americans who don't have. >> bernie sanders earlier today, leading a large rally of verizon picketers over in brooklyn, here in new york city, about 36,000 verizon employees went on strike today, after working without a contract since august. sanders also picking up a couple of big endorsements today. the new york city transit workers' union announcing that they're backing sanders. also today, sanders picked up his first endorsement from a fellow senator, oregon's jeff merkley announcing that he is backing bernie sanders for the democratic presidential nomination. now, both democratic candidates are campaigning all around new york city today. hillary clinton's going to be in the bronx later.
bernie sanders will have a rally in washington square park later tonight. that's in manhattan. all of this, as both candidates are gearing up for their big debate showdown tomorrow night. i want to bring in msnbc's kasie hunt. she's following the sanders' campaign from new york city. so, kasie, look, the polls here, stubborn 10 to 12 point lead for hillary clinton, that's an improvement from sanders from a month ago. it's still a gap with six months to go. is his campaign talking outright victory in new york or moral victory? >> reporter: steve, i think you've heard them shift a little bit, rhetoric wise, on new york, from emphasizing that this was a must-win state and saying that they really could win it, to backing off that a little bit in subtle ways. now, of course, you still have sanders on the stump saying, hey, if the turnout is high, we can win here in new york. and i do think they believe there is still a chance that they could potentially close this gap. they've got these three big rallies, one of which is here
tonight in washington square park, another in brooklyn over the weekend, and another one in queens, that could help try to recapture some of that magic that he had coming out of wisconsin. you also, of course, have some good visuals here in new york for sanders today. in his element, at this verizon protest, take a look at him rallying those troops earlier today. >> a greedy, profitable corporation, who wants to outsource good-paying jobs, who wants to take away health care benefits from its workers, but somehow, they do have enough money to probably pay their ceo $20 million a year. this union and workers are standing up for justice, and i stand with them today. >> reporter: that, of course, is sanders very much in his element. those are the kind of politics that shaped him very early on. and it's the kind of thing where you can really see even his normal campaign speeches really fit in to that kind of mold of
campaigning. of course, you have the verizon ceo pushing back, with a statement today saying, quote, the senator's uninformed views are, in a word, contemptible. pretty unusual for a ceo to come out and say something like that. but, steve, i think that that's conversation around sanders' campaign is going to evolve pretty quickly after this new york primary. i'm sure that you're still going to hear them talking about going forward. but if they don't pull out a win here, it's going to raze evise ever-more questions about whether he's going to be able to close this pledged delegate gap with hillary clinton. and i think it's likely the conversation will shift to what is the best thing for bernie sanders going forward? does it make sense for him to continue to fight potentially cause a lasting riff in this democratic primary? or make more sense for him to try to bring things together. i was talking to some people here in line. and a lot of the young people here said, under no circumstances, will we ever vote for hillary clinton. i talked to one middle-aged woman, who was trying to convince them that actually it would be in their interests for
everything to get back together. uh i think there is the potential there for a lasting rift with this party if bernie sanders decides that he's not going to ultimately try and bring people together here, steve. >> all right. kasie hunt on the sanders' beat. thanks for that. turn now to kristen welker. she's covering the clinton campaign and also in new york city. kristen, given the stakes that kasie hunt just laid out there for the sanders' campaign, they are up against it when it comes to this pledged delegate count. if they really want to have any claim to a path to victory in that race, they got to put a win up on the board here in new york. and they've got that debate tomorrow night, bernie sanders, hillary clinton, one on one. is the clinton campaign bracing themselves for an onslaught from bernie sanders on that stage tomorrow night? >> reporter: oh, they absolutely are, steve. and i think we've seen that in recent days. both of these candidates really trading sharp jabs in the clinton campaign with a new line of attack, set to argue that
senator sanders is untested. that's in part based on the that new yorkdale news interview that he gave, in which he seemed to struggle to explain some of his chief positions, like how he's going to break up the big banks. but senator sanders returning fire, of course, when he called secretary clinton unqualified. he stepped back from that in recent days, but he has hit her hard on other issues. questioning her judgment and some of the policy positions that she's taken in the past. earlier today, in speaking at the national action network here, secretary clinton tried to rally african-american voters, and essentially made the argument that she's stronger on a number of the issues that they hold dear, including gun control. take a listen to what she had to say. >> 33,000 people a year killed by guns in america. every year. now, my opponent, who will be speaking to you tomorrow, and i don't see this the same way, but i think this is a national
emergency. and i'm going to do everything i can to take on the gun lobby and to try to save lives. >> reporter: so, steve, you can expect guns to be one of the big issues they discuss tomorrow night. just to give you a little bit of context about today, secretary clinton reaching out to courting, trying to shore up support among african-americans. this is a critical voting bloc. if you look at the polls, secretary clinton has a very healthy lead right now with black voters. 65 to 28%. and they have, quite frankly, helped sweep her to victory in southern states, also in ohio, illinois, missouri. she is counting on them here in new york. and i'll go back to something that kasie was saying, if she wins and if she wins big here, it could almost put this race out of reach. but in order for that to happen, secretary clinton needs african-americans to turn out in force. that's going to be the big question on tuesday. steve? >> all right, kristen welker, thank you for that, with the clinton campaign. let's bring in now congressman
steve israel, from new york. he's a supporter of hillary clinton, and congressman, thanks for taking a few minutes. let me pick up on something that cas kasie hunt was mentioning in her support. she was talking to sanders supporters and mentioned talking to one of them who said, if hillary clinton's the nominee, no way i'm ever voting for hillary clinton. and there is a risk here, the longer this goes on, the more bitter this fight becomes. she said of a lasting rift on the democratic side after this primary. is that something that worries you? >> look, it's new york. you can't take a single vote for granted. hillary clinton knows that, because she served a as senator for eight years. the fact of the matter is that in new york, emotions run high. people say things and then when it comes down to it, when that woman has to decide, does she want hillary clinton, who will protect the american people from gun violence and build infrastructure or donald trump, who is supportive of the nra and supported by the nra and will build walls.
i believe that woman will make a different kind of judgment. but we're going to have to earn that vote. >> the strength that bernie sanders as shown, and we're talking about the delegate math here. and it's true. for him to actually catch hillary clinton in the delegate kound, in the pledged delegate count, that's a steep climb for him, to put it mildly at this point. but when we get to the end of this process, bernie sanders may end up taking 20 states. he may end up taking 1,800 delegates. this is a guy who wasn't even a member of the democratic party a year ago, a self-described socialist, coming in, running against a former secretary of state, former first lady and doing this well. what does that say about your party? >> well, look, it says that this is a very unpredictable environment, steve. probably the most unpredictable and volatile environment that we have seen in forever. both on the republican side and the democratic side. the mood of the american electorate is unpredictable. but, look, the basics count. she is ahead of bernie sanders by 2.5 million popular votes.
she has a massive delegate lead over him. and while i salute him, because he has had a few tactical victories, it's like, you know, i'm a mets' fan saying, well, we may have lost 5-3, but we had that one good inning. that one good inning doesn't count. in new york, you want to get the "w." >> i take your point. they had more than one good inning. they've put more than a dozen wins on the board across the country so far. but, yes, it is still behind here. a lot of people look at sanders' success, and for that matter, some of the positions that hillary clinton has taken this year versus where she was in 2008. they say it's a sign that the democratic party is getting more liberal. do you agree with that? >> hillary clinton reflects the values and priorities of democrats. you talk about, you know, contrasts in this election. i did a gun violence roundtable with hillary clinton in my district on monday, where we had five women who lost a mother to gun violence, a daughter, a son, a nephew. hillary clinton's priorities are to take on the gun lobby.
bernie sanders voted five times against the brady bill. hillary clinton believes that the gun lobby and gun manufacturers should not have legal immunity. bernie sanders voted to give them that legal immunity twice. i don't know whether you call that conservative or liberal. i do know that this is an election about common sense. and on that basis, hillary clinton does very well, on the basis of common sense and reflecting the values and majorities of democrats, and independents, as well, as we get into the general election. >> but, you talk about guns. that's -- to me, that's a perfect example. because back in 2008, around this time, hillary clinton was defeating barack obama in primaries in west virginia, in pennsylvania, she did well in ohio. she was talking about the interests and the rights of gun owners. she was talking about the importance back then of understanding the culture of gun ownership. and now she's talking about the issues that you're talking about there. i mean, i'll ask you again. people same, the republican party has become a lot more
conservative. that's a big story in our modern politics. but isn't it also part of the story that the democratic party is getting more liberal? >> steve, i think that you can talk about second amendment rights and the rights of law-abiding, responsible people to own guns, but also say that we should strengthen background checks, where bernie sanders said, no, we should weaken them. i think that the two are not mutually exclusive and that view represents, i think, the majority of democrats, and quite honestly, the majority of americans. >> all right. steve israel, congressman from new york, a retiring congressman, you're getting out of the business at the end of the year, but support hillary clinton right now. thank you for your time. >> thank you, steve. up next, she knows what he's like in the boardroom, but how would he be in the oval office? the one, the only omarosa will join us next to talk trump and the republican party, straight ahead. stay with us. being stolen. that is cyber-crime. and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount.
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trump supporter and former attendant on "the apprentice," omarosa menigal. thank you for joining us. >> glad to be here. >> this is a preview of the fall, and if hillary clinton is running against donald trump, she'll be counting on a large turnout of black voters. overwhelming support from black voters. the democrats have typically done well with black voters. but donald trump versus hillary clinton, does he do worse with black voters than we've seen republicans do? >> can i respond to that? i was in the room when she did that speech, and the reaction was very lukewarm. and i'm surprised she mentioned the birther movement, because she started these birther -- >> wait, this is 2008. the 2008 campaign. >> right, when they started this whisper campaign. >> you're saying her campaign started that? >> absolutely. and there's been so much coverage about this. so when she's in this room at national action network and talking about the birther movement, literally, everyone in the room was sitting back and
saying, that's a little odd. >> she's done really well in this primary with black voters. we've seen her getting 80 to 90% of the black vote versus bernie sande sanders? >> but donald trump have had 8 million people support him. they are not all white male they are of diverse backgrounds. >> especially in this republican primary. >> can we acknowledge the states this happened where people were very surprised. florida, he won 66 out of 67 counties. the most diverse state in the -- >> but the republican primary is very different demographically than the entire state. >> so we can't compare her turnout of african-americans who traditionally vote democratic, 90%, to a vm primary, where, you know, that's traditionally not their base. >> but let me ask you -- i want to ask you about the donald trump. you know him personally and in a way that most americans don't get to see him. i want to ask you about that. larry king was on this show and he also knows him personally. he had an interesting comment. i want to play it and get you to respond it to. >> please. >> this is larry king yesterday. >> there's a lot to be said for
donald trump. yeah, there's a lot -- you know, he's a good guy. he is really a good guy. he's not a racist. >> yeah? >> he plays to that crowd. >> but he doesn't talk that way -- >> no, no. not at all. >> interesting. >> you were on the show, you worked with him. any hint in the donald trump you've seen off the air of racism? >> absolutely none. nothing. i mean, it's just this narrative that continues. and it has to be stopped. because anyone who knows him or has interacted with him knows that's just not the case. he has a very, very pure heart in the sense that he really does want to make america great. and that means the for all americans. >> but does -- what larry king said there, he says he plays to that crowd. is that something you see? for instance, asked about david duke, won't just say, the guy is vile -- >> he denounced it on that friday before he even got to jake tapper. >> but did it bother you at no point there -- it seems to me, that's one example where it's so easy to say, that guy is awful, i want nothing to do with him.
>> no question about it. >> and he seems to have hesitated to say that. >> he was very, very unequivocal when he stated and denounced david duke on this friday. and they kept asking him. there is no question that he does not in any way support or is affiliated with kkk. >> so you don't think that he is in any subtle way -- a lot of people use the term dog whistle politics, when you try to say something without saying -- >> why would he have to? >> they say, maybe he's going for a vote out there, at least parts of the electorate out there, that maybe do have some views on race that are backwards, that he's trying to get without fully going there. you don't see that at work at all? >> absolutely not. and why would he have to? his supporters are enthusiastic, they're passionate, and they won't be turned away. he doesn't have to start some underground movement. he's already started a movement and folks are passionate, they're outthere, they're voting and turning out and they'll continue to turn out until he is the nominee. >> you talked to him recently? >> yes, we are doing this national coalition of diversity for donald. we're announcing this on monday. and i'm very excited about it,
because i think this will stop that narrative that he has problems with minorities and particularly with the black vote. >> does that -- when you talk to him privately, everything we just talked about on the air, people saying that he's a racist, people saying he's playing to racism, people saying he doesn't handle the david duke thing well. does he talk about that privately? does that bother him? >> what donald's focused on is really getting to that nomination. and yes, he is concerned about people making these crazy accusations and questioning his character. it would bother you, as well, if people were saying things that were just untrue about you. and so, he works. and he continues to focus on what's important. and that really is connecting with voters, which he's doing every single day. all over america. we see people turn out, 20,000 in long island. i mean, he is really making a movement that will continue to get him where he needs to in advancing this country. >> all right. omarosa manigault, appreciate you joining us. and here's susan li with the
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campaign for us. kelly, this is supposed to be, at least in theory, john kasich's ally. they say it's failing them, how so? >> reporter: well, one of the things you would expect is that many of the forces behind the stop-trump, never-trump, whatever their terminology might be, they tend to be traditional republican operatives. people who have seen the type of establishment figures go forward in the party in the past. that's really where they pulled their money, support, and talent from. that should match up pretty well with a john kasich, who is a sitting governor in ohio, has experience in congress, serving 18 years there. so the frustration for the kasich campaign is that stopping trump, in their view, is kind of a cloaked effort to help ted cruz. they think that that's counter productive, because they believe that ted cruz would not do as well in the fall against a presumed hillary clinton. if she becomes the democratic nominee. so, this is a tough terrain for anybody. and these campaigns throw plenty
of elbows, if not a few fists now and then. so they're just trying to point out that they believe that there are two of the traditional establishment republicans, signing up for cruz, not because they're crazy about cruz, but because he is ahead in the winning of states and the winning of delegates, still far behind donald trump, of course. but in that blocking trump sort of strategy, it has been scatter shot. and they wish a bit more of that energy, money, and time would go to john kasich. that's been part of the frustration. that for someone who is as sort of down the road gop establishment in a year, that is not so gop establishment, they're kind of frustrated that some of those resources aren't helping him. if you slow down cruz as well, then it really pushes it to a convention. that's part of what we're seeing. >> i wonder, this inability, i guess, of everybody who's not donald trump, not supporting donald trump to really sort of coordinate on any kind of strategy here. i see a potential pileup coming. you've got to wait until may, but look at indiana.
and on paper, indiana is a state where trump is vulnerable, but not if cruz and kasich are stealing each other's votes. >> well, that's part of the problem. and we've seen that when there were the much-bigger field, the 17 that we began with. there were sort of unintended consequence votes, where people would support one candidate, but it would have an effect on another. when ben carson was in the race, he dragged a lot of votes away from ted cruz. perhaps had ben carson never been in the race, cruz would have been out even further. but it's that kind of thing, when voters are picking and choosing, they sometimes inadvertently help a candidate they might not want to support. john kasich often argues that he is the second choice for many trump or cruz supporters. so figure o out that math, if you're going to one and two, and trying to deal with that. today, he was out in maryland where there is a state that's voting in that pileup that comes on april 26th. he is doing a town hall today. visited for some ice cream, trying to make his case.
steve? >> kelly o'donnell, thanks for that. and remember this, tomorrow night, 7:00 eastern time, chris matthews is going to moderate an exclusive town hall with john kasich. you are going to want to tune in for that, tomorrow night on msnbc. that's going to do it for us this hour. i'm steve kornacki and "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's wednesday, it's a scam, a disgrace, aphon a phony. those are just some of the words donald trump is using to describe the road to the republican nomination. can trashing the rules and the people that make him still help him get the nomination from the party that's writing these rules? will they be able to handle him bashing them all the way to cleveland? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now.