tv Caught on Camera MSNBC April 17, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
cleveland. and we're going to beat hillary in november. >> and i've got to beat the clock. i want to thank you. i want to thank everybody here at the university at buffalo. [ cheers and applause ] stay tuned for more msnbc and full coverage of campaign 2016. we'll see you down the road. thanks, everybody. this sunday, a $353,000 ticket to a hillary clinton fundraiser. my exclusive interview with the host of that event, george clooney. >> i think it's an obscene amount of money. it's ridiculous that we should have this kind of money in politics. >> george clooney on clinton, trump and all that money in politics. >> i think there is a difference between the koch brothers and us. plus, the republican party at war with itself. >> it's a rigged system, folks. the republican system is a rigged system. >> the trump campaign is trying to be more disciplined, but is it too late for the candidate to change the script?
republican chairman reince priebus joins me. also, north carolina's new so-called bathroom law. does it discriminate against the lgbt community? i'll ask the governor, pat mccrory, if he now regrets signing a bill that has cost his state so much money. and joining me for insight and analysis are msnbc's chris matthews, kathleen parker of "the washington post," radio talk show host hugh hewitt and perry bacon of nbc news. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. donald trump got wiped out in the delegate race in yet another state yesterday. in wyoming ted cruz won all the delegates up for grabs at yesterday's wyoming state convention. trump says it would have been a waste of time and money for him to campaign there, claiming the system is rigged and that the republican establishment is simply trying to take the nomination away from him.
we're going to get to that story later in the show, but we're going to begin with the democrats and the intersection of money, politics and hollywood. and my surprisingly frank conversation with george clooney. last night in los angeles, and the night before in san francisco, george and amal clooney hosted fundraisers for hillary clinton where the top ticket set you back $353,000. for that price you got to sit at the same table with hillary clinton and the clooneys. it was very much an event for the 1% of the 1%. these big money fundraisers did not escape the attention of the bernie sanders campaign or his supporters who last night threw dollar bills, real ones, at clinton's motorcade. sanders of course has made opposing wall street and money and politics the centerpiece of his campaign. i got a chance yesterday to talk to george clooney from his home
outside of l.a., and he was very open and candid about what he thought about all that money that is pouring into campaigns at events like the one he hosted. mr. clooney, welcome to "meet the press." >> thank you, chuck. >> let me start with dinner you co-hosted on friday night, big fundraiser i know you have planned for later tonight. do you look at how much is being raised? and i think the co-host of the friday night dinner $353,000 a couple to be a co-chair. do you look at it yourself and think that's an obscene amount of money? >> yes. i think it's an obscene amount of money. i think that, you know, we had some protesters last night when we pulled up in san francisco. and they're right to protest. they're absolutely right. it is an obscene amount of money the sanders campaign when they talk about it is absolutely right. it's ridiculous that we should have this kind of money in politics. i agree. completely. >> you know, it was interesting -- our camera caught you having a conversation with the protesters last night. what did you say to them? >> well, that was the funniest thing.
i went to try to talk to him, and he said i was some corporate shill, which if you know me that's one of the funnier things you could say about me. and then he just said, you know, you sucked as batman. and i was like, well, you kind of got me on that one. and then i walked away. and that was basically it. but, you know, i think what's important and what i think the clinton campaign has not been very good at explaining is this. and this is the truth. the overwhelming amount of money that we are raising, and it is a lot, but the overwhelming amount of the money that we're raising is not going to hillary to run for president. it's going to the down ticket. it's going to the congressmen and senators to try to take back congress. and the reason that's important, and the reason it's important to me is because we need -- i'm a democrat, so if you're a republican you're going to disagree. but we need to take the senate back because we need to confirm a supreme court justice. because that fifth vote on the supreme court can overturn citizens united and get this
obscene, ridiculous amount of money out so i never have to do a fundraiser again. that's why i'm doing it. >> so you don't enjoy doing these fundraisers? >> i don't think anybody does. i don't even think politicians do. i'm sure you've covered them before, it's not the most fun thing to do. you know, i spend probably a quarter of my time now raising millions and millions of dollars to fund my foundation, which is basically chasing and looking for money that these corrupt politicians all around the world are hiding. the panama papers have been actually incredibly helpful. we had forensic accountants. so this is all a very big part of things that are important to me. i really want citizens united. i think it's the worst -- one of the worst laws passed since i've been around. >> you know, bernie sanders, obviously you noted that his campaign was criticizing this. and he was asked about your fundraiser specifically. and he backed off.
>> sure. >> and he said this. >> so it's not a criticism of clooney. it is a criticism of a corrupt campaign finance system where big money interest -- and it's not clooney, it's the people who coming to this event have undue influence over the political process. >> do you think people that are coming to your event tonight and went last night, that they think they're going to get extra access to hillary clinton, to a president clinton? >> no. i actually don't think that's true. i think there is a difference between the koch brothers and us. you know, the difference is if i succeed -- if we succeed in electing an entire congress, which would be quite a success, but a senate and a president. you know, the tax policies they would enact would cost us a lot more money, quite honestly. the koch brothers would profit if they get their way. there's no profit for us in this. understanding this, koch brothers have said that they're
going to spend $900 million not on the presidency but on the down ticket, on the senators and the congressmen and the gubernatorial races and local races. and so our job is to try and counter that in some way. >> you actually had plenty of nice things to say about bernie sanders. i think you did an interview with "the guardian" where you said you like the issues he was bringing up, you thought he was actually pushing hillary clinton in a certain way. i am curious, why did you pick clinton over sanders? >> well, i've worked with secretary clinton as a secretary particularly in -- when the sudan and south sudan were looking to vote for their own independence. and it was an incredibly dangerous time for that country. and there were, you know, hundreds of thousands of people's lives at risk. and between the secretary and the security council and some of the people on the ground and kofi annan and jimmy carter and people like that, thousands of people on the ground, we worked
very hard to make sure that didn't happen. she understood the issues, even though we don't have any great reason to pay attention to sudan, we don't trade with them, we don't get money from them. i found her to be knowledgeable and to care about the issues. and we've worked together since then. and i've been a very big fan of hers. but i want to say this. i really like bernie. i think what he's saying in this election is important if you're a democrat. again, to have these conversations. i hope he stays in for the entire election. and if he were to win the nomination, i will do whatever i can including if asked a fundraiser like this again to try to keep bringing -- to try to give him, or her, hillary, i hope she wins, a senate. because honestly we see what happens when a president tries to get their supreme court justice confirmed without the senate. >> you have minced no words about your feelings about donald trump. i think you called him a
xenophobic fascist. i hope i'm quoting you correctly. >> i think you're pretty close. >> fair enough. what have your interactions with him been? >> i met him once. i was sitting down at a table. he was nice. and we talked a couple of times i think. and then he went on larry king and told everybody i was very short. i wanted to say i met you sitting down. but it's not about that. you know, here's the point about what's going on right now on the other side. trump and cruz are making this a campaign of fear. we have to be afraid of everything. we have to be afraid of refugees. we have to be afraid of muslims. we have to be afraid of minorities. and the question is, and this is an important one, are we really going to be scared of the very things that have made our country great? and if the answer is yes, then we have history to answer to. because we're not afraid. we are not a country -- we are not a country that is afraid. and i refuse to accept that.
>> why do you think fear has been working, at least in the republican party? >> because fear's always worked one way or another. in elections fear has always been a great -- you know, one of the great tools of any election. but the reality is we are not the descendants of fearful people. we're not. so no, we're not going to ban muslims from this country. that's never going to happen. and we're not going to go back to torture. and we're not going to kill the families of terrorists or suspected terrorists, because that is not who we are. and if we did, we would make our grandparents and their parents would be ashamed of us. >> i'm curious, hollywood and a lot of movie studios were very aggressive in putting pressure on the governor of georgia to veto a bill that would have perhaps made it easier to discriminate gays and lesbians and transgender folks.
some of that same pressure is being applied to north carolina. first of all, do you approve of pressure like that, number one? and what do you make of the north carolina law? >> well, i am a protester -- i got arrested in d.c. a couple years ago with my father protesting. i'm a big believer in protest. i think it matters. from the '56 montgomery bus protest to the apartheid protest that i was a part of when i was a young man. but i find these to be really effective because these are big corporations that are protesting. and when you have ibm and walmart of all people and general electric and people like that coming at you, it affects people. and you can see it because we saw it with mike pence in indiana, we saw with jan brewer in arizona. i think they can have some great effect. and i think the law is ridiculous of course. >> all right. george clooney, i've kept you long enough. thanks for coming on. appreciate it. >> thank you, chuck. i appreciate it. >> you got it. as you saw, that was george
clooney, a clinton supporter, striking an unusually conciliatory tone towards bernie sanders these days, but thursday night's debate between the candidates got pretty heated and it was not so conciliatory. >> you know, wait a minute -- >> that's just not accurate. >> come on. i have stood on the debate stage dpsh. >> wolf, can i -- >> -- with senator sanders eight prior times -- >> excuse me. >> secretary, senator, please. >> there you go. the new york primary is on tuesday. joining me now is the chair of the democratic party debbie wasserman-schultz. of florida. as well as our panel is going to be joining in here with the questioning. madame chairman, nice to see you. let me start with what george clooney said. he agreed this fundraiser which benefits a big chunk of the dnc, obscene. do you agree with him? >> absolutely. we agree as a party that there is an obscene amount of money in politics. that's why our members, i'm a co-sponsor, along with many of my colleagues, of a constitutional amendment that would overturn citizens united. we need to make sure we can keep elections like we did with changing congressional
districting and redistricting across the country, that voters can choose their representatives and that we don't have outside undue influence come in and swoop in and make decisions on behalf of the majority of voters. >> as i said, people see the panel is here. chris matthews of "hardball," kathleen parker of "the washington post," perry bacon of nbc news, hugh hewitt for the radio program. chris, fire away. >> well, i think one thing bernie sanders is saying in his ads i don't think is true. he's talking about members of congress, people in washington taking money for speeches. you're not allowed to do that. you guys voted that out years ago. >> that's right. they're not allowed to do that. there are no honorariums. look, the bottom line here is we have two candidates who are at the more narrow end of the funnel now as we end the primary election contest. and it's going to get more heated. but look, compared to the republicans who are in utter chaos, our two candidates have been substantive and robust. they've kept largely to the
issues that are important to the american people, talked about how they want to build on president obama and congressional delegates -- congressional democrats' legacy. and we want to move the country forward and help people reach the middle class. they have slightly different approaches to how to get there, but it's been a substantive discussion. >> slightly. go ahead. >> bernie sanders this week has >> bernie sanders this week has really attacked the 1990s in some ways. he suggested the crime bill of '94 and the welfare reform bill of 1996 were bad legislation. do you agree with that? >> you know, i think that the impact of the crime bill has had some important effects and some detrimental effects. and so, you know, both of our candidates voted for the crime bill. and i think most democrats would agree that there needs to be reform so that we can make sure that sentencing and the way we manage our criminal justice system is a lot more equitable and fair than it is today. >> kathleen. >> yeah, going back to the
financing of political campaigns. everybody loves to talk about how much we dislike citizens united. you'll find people on both sides. republicans dislike it too. at least a lot of them do. >> that's not reflected in how they vote or -- >> mitt romney was one of those -- spoke out about how much he disliked it because it gives so much power to people who are sort of marginal -- >> while benefitting from it handsomely. >> but that's not really my question. i'm just laying that out as the prefatory note. is there any serious consideration given to the possibility of just limiting campaigns as other countries do to two months, say, and make them completely publicly funded. is that anything that ever gets serious consideration and only possible? >> only by democrats. certainly democrats have supported public financing of campaigns. i know i do. and many of my colleagues do. and we do need to have, you know, an effort that both sides come together and try to make that reform. but republicans have no interest in changing the campaign finance system. they support hundreds of millions of dollars of outside
undue influence swooping in and weighing heavily on the outcome of any election contest. it's obscene. and we need to elect majorities in congress so democrats can make a difference and change. >> hugh, last question. >> chairwoman, let me grab something that did not come up in the more cowbell debate from thursday night. and that is if after lewandowski was charged, many democrats and many republicans said of donald trump's campaign manager that he should be fired and he wasn't. if any of secretary clinton's aides are indicted in the fbi server investigation, should they also be fired? should the same standard apply? >> that is a question i'm not even going near. i don't think that's going to happen. and at the end of the day we are going to have a campaign that will play out. our nominee will ultimately be elected president of the united states because we are on the side of the american people. and ultimately -- >> it's not about whether or not it's going to happen. it's about the standard. if a senior aide is ever indicted in the campaign as mr. lewandowski was, should they be fired immediately?
>> again, i don't think that that's going to happen, so it's not a question that is one that i think makes sense to answer. i'm focused on making sure that when we get to the end of our primary we're preparing for the general election and we can and will elect our nominee the 45th president of the united states. >> i'm going to leave it there. debbie wasserman schultz, thanks for coming in. >> thank you. as always. >> and coming to the table. >> anytime. when we come back, the republican race. donald trump loses a delegate contest in another state at a convention. if he can't stop the bleeding, can he beat ted cruz at this summer's convention if he can't win on the first ballot? n the t, you learn what makes our heating and cooling systems so reliable. if there's a breaking point, we'll find it. it's hard to stop a trane. really hard. trane. the most reliable for a reason.
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if you want to know why donald trump is so frustrated with the delegate selection process, here's yet another example. yesterday in wyoming, ted cruz without a primary or a caucus, won all 14 delegates available at the state convention. it means cruz wound up with 23 pledged delegates from wyoming, with trump and marco rubio each receiving just one. so what happened in wyoming has been typical of this campaign. though trump is winning the overall battle for votes in delegate states and primaries, he's losing the hand-to-hand combat over delegates awarded at state conventions. and as a result trump has ricocheted between trashing the republican national committee and trying to make peace with it. and it's clear now though that donald trump realizes the game is about winning on the first ballot at the convention or he's doomed. >> the republican national
committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap. >> the fight between the republican front-runner and the republican party smoldering for days is turning to an all-out war. >> the system, folks, is rigged. >> it's a rigged system. >> it's a rigged system, folks. the republican system is rigged. >> an on-again/off-again feud with party leaders is ratcheting up as trump tries a campaign reboot. after a crushing 13-point defeat in wisconsin, trump turned a page, sidelining campaign manager cory lewandowski. >> he wasn't quite as effective the last couple months. >> hiring a new delegate wrangler paul manafort and a political director with close ties to the rnc, reaching out to members of congress and limiting exposure to the media to just friendly interviews. >> when i take the mat, i will be so presidential you won't believe it. >> but even as trump's new team attempts to keep him scripted. >> get him out. don't hurt him. see how nice i am? >> putting out a "the wall street journal" op-ed promising
to work closely with the chairman of the republican national committee and top gop officials to reform our election policies. trump himself shows no sign of letting up. >> the republican national committee they better get going because i'll tell you what. you're going to have a rough july at that convention. >> but can trump afford to alienate the party insiders he needs to unite the party and win a general election? he's already struggling with swing voters. >> who's going to pay for the wall? >> 79% of hispanic voters now view trump unfavorably. >> i'll use the word "anchor baby." excuse me. i'll use the word "anchor baby." >> so do 67% of suburban women and 72% of moderates. >> you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell. >> three years ago, after mitt romney's defeat, the party charted a path back to the white house that imagined a big tent republican party and recommended
new appeals to women and minority voters. >> a welcoming attitude that we need to have in our party. i think that we had some biologically stupid things that were said in the last election. >> i'm joined now by the chairman of the republican national committee, reince priebus. chairman priebus, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. thank you. >> let me start with your republican front-runner continually calling the process you're overseeing rigged. how do you tell republican voters you are running a fair process when the front-runner is calling what you're doing rigged? >> well, i'm not -- you know, look, i don't know what the motivation is. there's really nothing that's rigged or being changed or altered. these are the same rules that were in place basically for over a century. but at the very least there's no way around the fact that all of these states submitted their delegate allocation plans by october 1st of 2015.
and not a single thing has changed about it. these conventions that people talk about, number one, it's not common, but a few states out west use a convention system where delegates start competing at the county level a month ago and they go through the county, the precinct, the congressional district and a state convention. and the candidates participate the whole way through. and no one was complaining except for when it was all over. and look, every state is different. and you can reform the system. i mean, look, this has been an ongoing debate. >> right. >> but you have to go state by state by state. it's a pretty extraordinary task. >> how concerned are you when donald trump says the rnc better be prepared for a rough july? and are you concerned about reports of threats being made to delegates? what do you say to any campaign doing that? >> well, sure, look, there's no room for threatening the delegates or the convention or anybody that would be going to our national convention. but i also think some of this is rhetoric and hyperbole.
and the truth is is that the delegates themselves are the ones that write the rules for the convention. the rnc doesn't write any rules. the rnc has basically an administrative role at the convention. it's by majority rule the delegates can run the convention. so it's on them to decide what they want to do about a lot of these issues. not us. >> who's backing this nominee, the voters or the delegates? >> you know, i think it's a combination. but it's empowered by the voters, so the voters empower the delegates. but ultimately the delegates who in most cases are bound by the outcome of caucuses and primaries and conventions make the decisions at the convention. think about this, i think we lose sight of what the word convention means. it's not a four-day party. a convention in its legal sense is the members of the party coming together every four years to write the rules of the party, to elect officers of our party and a nominee.
it has a legal value. it's no different than when like, you know, if the boy scouts have a national convention, they do similar things. and that's what's happening. but the media never covers the fact that we actually do a lot of business at the convention. but now everyone's interested. >> yes, they are. >> in the business of a national convention. >> that's for sure. look, we just have a brand new nbc/"wall street journal" poll out. among republican voters we asked the simple question, who should be the winner? should it be the candidate with the most primary votes regardless of whether it's a majority, or the candidate who has the choice of the delegates. by two to one, chairman priebus, republican voters say it's got to be the one who has the most primary votes. and that's going to be donald trump by a lot. what do you tell those voters if it's not trump? >> well, look, there's -- if donald trump -- if he was winning the majority of votes, he'd likely have the majority of delegates. but that's not actually what's happening. he's winning in plurality of votes. and he has a plurality of delegates. and under the rules and under
the concept of this country a majority of rules on everything. majority rules on the electoral college. majority rules at the dnc, the rnc, and i don't know too many places where majority doesn't rule. and i would suppose that if people were asked a question like that, it makes sense but it doesn't -- it only tells you half the story. >> very quick, chairman, i've got a couple of campaigns that are worried you're going to allow trump to bully you. what do you say to that? bully you and cave to his demands. >> no. listen, the rules are set. i've been pretty clear. i think i've done more tv in the last two weeks than i have in two years and it's because i'm not going to allow anyone to rewrite the rules of our party. >> all right. chairman priebus, thanks for coming on "meet the press" this morning. good to see you. >> you bet. when we come back, check out this sign. "welcome to north carolina. due to our stance on lgbt rights, please set your clock
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north carolina governor pat mccrory has found himself on the front lines of the latest battle for lgbt rights. here's what happened. the state's largest city charlotte passed an ordinance that prevented businesses from discriminating against lesbians, gays and transgender people. in response governor mccrory quickly signed into law a bill that's being called by some anti-gay, the so-called bathroom law. the law does a few things. first, it invalidates the charlotte ordinance and prevents other municipalities in the state from passing similar protections. second it requires that transgender people use the bathroom and locker room matching their birth certificate gender rather than the gender they identify with. governor mccrory has been forced to defend and clarify the law's intent, which goes much further than repealing the charlotte ordinance. all while he faces a tough re-election fight this november. and the governor of north carolina joins me now. governor mccrory, welcome to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me. i appreciate it.
>> since you signed the executive order that was intended to try, i think you were trying to ratchet back some of the controversy here. you still had more companies joining the boycott here. bloomberg, capital one, united airlines, william sonoma. that's just on friday. 160 companies have called for its repeal. you still have an nba commissioner that is not yet committing to keeping the all-star game in charlotte. any estimates that we have of lost revenue so far. we have come up with, calculated, conservative calculation of 39.7 million. 186 million perhaps in revenue. and some have suggested billions in lost revenue. all of this now. do you have regrets signing this law? >> as governor, as i did with mayor, i will always call out government overreach. in this example, the city of charlotte where i was mayor for 14 years did government overreach. and what your pre-clip didn't mention was it was the left that brought about the bathroom bill, not the right, in the city of charlotte like the city of houston tried to do and was rejected by 61% of the vote.
the city of charlotte passed a bathroom ordinance mandate on every private sector employer in charlotte, north carolina, one of the largest -- 15th, 16th largest cities in the united states of america. and i think that's government overreach. it's not government's business to tell the private sector what their bathroom, locker room or shower practices should be. not only the private business but also the ymca and other nonprofit organizations. and by the way, this is what 29 other states also do not have these types of -- >> but you know -- >> -- restroom, locker room and bathroom policy. >> you talk about overreach, you say charlotte overreached. >> right. >> how did the state of north carolina, the state government not overreach in just the same way? you mentioned houston. voters made that decision. >> right. >> you can make a case voters made the decision in charlotte. charlotte rejected it, then elected two new members of the city council. this has been a long debate in the city of charlotte. this is where they came down. you guys debated for like ten seconds. i mean, don't you regret the time of debate? >> actually, charlotte's vote was a very little debate.
they just had a lot of public speakers speaking for and against -- >> no, that night. but this has been months of a debate. >> real quick, charlotte had originally turned it down just like houston has. and there hasn't been outrage. there wasn't outrage towards charlotte when they turned it down initially. there was an outrage toward houston, texas, where they turned it down recently. but i'll tell you what i've learned through this, is we have to have more dialogue, and not threats. i was in hamlet, north carolina, a small town that could be any town in the united states of america. i walked into a buffet restaurant, african-american buffet restaurant, and the people just welcomed me with open arms and said thanks for protecting us. i got back in my car and i got a call from someone in corporate america going, man, you've got to change this, we're getting killed. and it showed me the disconnect we had between the corporate suites and main street on a very complex subject. and a very personal subject regarding government policy of all things which didn't exist before this group brought this up. >> it's a very thoughtful thing
for you to say about dialogue. where was the dialogue in this -- first of all, you didn't -- >> let me tell you. >> your legislature forced a special session -- >> but the legislature to their defense -- >> but dialogue. >> we had an april 1st deadline in which the charlotte law was coming into effect. and they had to pass the law prior to -- >> but you had said you weren't worried about that deadline. >> i wasn't. the legislature according to their lawyers were because they were afraid once it came into effect it would be harder to overturn. we can have that debate a longer time, but again, i don't think government should be telling the private sector what their restroom and shower law should be to allow a man into a woman's restroom or shower facility at a ymca, for example. however, in government -- and i'm not going to tell the private sector any manufacturing plant, any bank can have their own policies. nbc can have their own policy in charlotte, north carolina, or anywhere in north carolina. but i do believe in our high schools, our middle schools, our universities, we should continue to have the tradition that we've
been having in this country for years. and we have a women's facility and a men's facility. you know, it's worked out pretty well. and i don't think we need any further government interference. >> but this as we talked about this law went further than that. it wiped away the city of charlotte's ability to govern, to do some things on their own. for instance, they can't even have their own minimum wage now. why did you do that? why did you is sign that? you're a former mayor of charlotte. could you accept all these limitations that big state government has put on city and local control? >> i made a point when i was mayor of charlotte for 14 years. we dealt with fire and police and airports and roads and light rail lines, we didn't impose new regulations on businesses. and i don't think the government ought to be the hr director for every business, whether it be in charlotte or greensboro or whether it be in boone, north carolina. and this is that fine line between how much does government tell the private sector in a regulatory way what to do. and in this case a city which i still proudly call home i think overstepped. and i've called out my own republican legislature in the
past with magistrates and i said no, the magistrates need to marry after the supreme court case what the supreme court said. >> i understand that. but you didn't -- in your executive order you didn't -- and you're not calling for a passage of protecting gay north carolinans from discrimination if they're fired in the private sector. why? >> because i'm not the private sector's hr director. i am the hr director and governor of all state employees. and i signed an executive order which protects all state employees. in the ninth largest state in the united states of america, the same executive order that the louisiana governor just signed and got praised for it. i just happen to be a republican governor and i got criticized for doing the same thing. i have to say there are a little bit of politics involved here. >> with all due respect. >> sure. >> barry goldwater had said this when they were debating whether to have the civil rights act, debating whether government should be involved in dealing with racial discrimination and he said "i'm unalterably opposed to any discrimination of sort but not law that embodies features like these, provisions
which fly in the face of the constitution and which require for their effective execution the creation of a police state." the same argument was used to try to defeat laws that are now considered untouchable. laws that protect minorities. >> absolutely. >> from discrimination in the private sector. why don't gays and lesbians qualify? >> first of all, i don't know of any business right now in north carolina -- and very similar to what nikki haley said about south carolina. that is doing this. but in the same time that we've got to do is deal with this extremely new social norm that has come to our nation in a very quick period of time and have these discussions about the complexity of equality while also balancing the concept of privacy including even privacy in the most private of areas of our life, which is a restroom, locker room, or shower facility in our high schools. >> but gender identity is the same privacy. it's the same issue. >> well, if that's the case -- >> they're looking for that same privacy. i mean, do you want somebody who identifies as a woman, born on their birth certificate as a man, may look like a woman going
into a men's bathroom? >> all i can say is we have 27 states -- >> is that fair to them? >> we have 27 states, not just -- this is not just a north carolina debate. this is a national debate that's just come on literally in the last three months. no one had heard of this debate until the houston ordinance was defeated by the people of the houston. we have 27 of 29 states that also don't have this type of mandate on private business including the state of new york. >> i'm curious about due diligence. >> sure. >> did you meet with any transgender people before you signed that law? >> i have -- but i've met with transgender people in the past and i've met with them since and have had very positive conversations. now, the conversation with a very powerful group called the human relations -- human rights council, my gosh, they're more powerful than the nra. and they have millions of dollars, which makes me want to overturn united because i don't know who their donors are either. but they are putting on a lot of pressure. instead of having good dialogue -- and i had wonderful dialogue with a transgender
woman who is -- and we talked about each other's issues. there's passion on each side of the issue. >> does it bother you at all, though, georgia defeated it. south carolina said -- >> wait a minute. >> does it bother you at all that basically north carolina and mississippi is the only other state that's on the side of you on this? >> let me correct you. georgia and mississippi was religious freedom bill. this was not a religious freedom bill. in fact, we have not had any religious freedom bill introduced in the state of north carolina. one reason is because i'm governor. so the confusion by the national media and the "new york times" of indiana religious freedom bill, mississippi and georgia religious freedom bill, that's not the case. this is basically a restroom privacy issue versus equality. and these things needed to be discussed. not threatened by hollywood or anyone. you know, hollywood, with all due respects to the hollywood -- the new batman and robin movie is playing in china. >> okay. >> which has anti -- terrible, terrible human rights
violations. this is not like an issue of bathroom privacy or restroom privacy in north carolina. and let's have this dialogue. and i welcome that dialogue. >> governor mccrory, is there any way this gets repealed? >> i don't think the restroom -- i do believe -- >> the other parts of this bill. >> there is one part of the bill i disagreed with when i signed it and that is not able to sue within state courts. and that needs to be repealed. it was very poorly thought out. >> we'll be watching for more. governor mccrory, thank you very much. >> appreciate it. >> when we come back, much more on the 2016 race. and then there was this last night on "snl." >> once i'm elected president, i'll have a nice shvits in the white house gym, then i'll go to the big banks, i'll sit them down, and yada, yada, yada, they'll be broken up. >> what? no. no! allergies distracting you?
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x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. panel is back. we're going to discuss the republican presidential race with a lot going on in this show. hugh hewitt, reince priebus is trying very hard to claim that the process is not rigged. donald trump's trying very hard to paint it as rigged. who's got the better pr case? >> rnc has the better facts as reince priebus pointed out in your interview. they have instructed the committee this week not to make any rules changes. any rule changes will be done by the delegates themselves. donald trump does well building skyscrapers, not building state delegation majorities. he got beat in georgia last night. cue vicky lawrence, the night the lights went out in georgia. the cruz campaign has won 12 consecutive victories over five states, including delegations -- >> i'll put up a graphic we have put together. he has beaten on delegates 2 to 1 since march 2nd.
he's netted 66. but guess what? that advantage was erased on tuesday with -- >> i tend -- trump is coming back because ivanka has returned to the trail. and i think she is a tremendous -- there's a piece in the "new york times" this morning by jonathan moller on how she is poised and disciplined and bringing that to her father's campaign. so the solution here is a fusion ticket cruz-trump, but ivanka is the vice president. >> let me tell you, trump has the same trump card that bernie has, democracy. ever since at least the kennedy humphrey fight over the nomination in wisconsin and west virginia, certainly through reagan against bush, certainly obama versus hillary, we watched the primaries to see who the nominee is and now we're told don't watch the primaries anymore, there's this thing at the convention with the rules and have to have a majority vote. the numbers you showed overwhelmingly show the republican people believe in democracy, and trump -- bernie makes it against the billionaires and citizens united same argument, people should vote.
>> the problem, perry, is that the political partyies modeled their nominating process after the electoral college. which by the way isn't exactly one person, one vote either. >> but i think trump has had a really good week in making this argument. if you look at we had these primaries for a reason and they're not for fun, the idea is they matter to some extent. i disagree with chris in a little bit that hillary clinton and donald trump are winning the most delegates in the most states. i think for most people that's who the winner should be is and i think reince is going to make a better argument than the rules are the rules are the rules. >> how can you disagree with me? >> because hillary clinton, not bernie sanders is the oning the primary. so i think -- >> the rhetorical argument is -- >> the same rhetorical argument. >> for the record i sort of -- >> we never disagree. >> i agree with chris on that because it is a good argument. we care about people's votes, right? oh, no, not really. but i think trump is actually going to have a very good week and actually a couple of really good weeks because he's obviously going to take new york. he's predicted to get 85 to 90 of the 95 delegates and
leftovers on staten island and who knows. but after that he goes onto pennsylvania, maryland and on and on. and then indiana going in. so he's going to build some fresh momentum and i think that's going to make a difference. >> by the way we have more of our nbc/"wall street journal" poll, a little taste of it, maybe it doesn't surprise people. the two most popular republican presidential candidates overall are john kasich and bernie sanders. >> right. because they're good people. >> lowest negative rating among all the republican candidates, trump at 65% negative rating, among all voters. ted cruz at 49%, hugh hewitt. those are tough numbers. by the way, let me put up hillary clinton. 56% negative rating. sanders-kasich is what the public wants apparently. >> parties are continuing bodies, they are not the public. they stand for ideological sets of principles. i was at the jewish committee in nevada where ted cruz got four standing ovations. i believe he's going to be the nominee because he is more consistently with the ideological spectrum that is the
continuing republican party. donald trum's had a good week, catherine's right, he's going to have a good couple of weeks. he ain't getting close to 1,237. >> trump will be the nominee probably for the opposite reason you say. why is every conservative radio guy basically for cruz? explain that culture to me. >> actually, they're not. the only guy that's come out actually formally is mark levine who has an enormous -- i'm very neutral. i'm switzerland. >> you are? >> i don't endorse anyone. >> no, you said if trump's the nominee -- >> i support the nominee. >> all i hear is radio talk for cruz. >> you've got to listen. only on mark levin is he strongly that way. but i will say those in the local markets who are long-term ideological conservatives like charlie sykes in wisconsin, like ted cruz because of his policies. >> i thought after wisconsin maybe ted cruz was going to be more popular among moderate republicans and polls are showing pennsylvania, maryland, new york, ted cruz is not broadening his coalition. that's a problem. >> kathleen, quickly, i think new york values kneecaped him. kneecapped him. >> totally. >> and he couldn't figure out a way out of it. >> no, you can't get out of it. i think he's eating alone in a fried chicken joint in the
bronx. >> i think now the cruz campaign wishes they said hey, new york is yours, trump. we are going to camp out in indiana and pennsylvania. >> remember the guy that did that before? gary hart. he's in l.a. with a gay group and sort of making fun of new jersey aesthetically. i'm glad i'm here in and not inw jersey -- >> guess what happened, new jersey's delegates went to walter mondale. quick programming note, lester holt will be anchoring "nightly news" live from the middle east tomorrow and with it he'll have an exclusive interview with the secretary of defense, ash carter. remember, there are serious issues that we are facing besides the way we argue about this election. and when we come back in 45 seconds we'll have end game. and the debate over the so-called bathroom law in north carolina. so-called bathroom law in north carolina. >> announcer: coming up, "meet the press" end game, brought to you by boeing, building the future one century at a time. au. with flonase allergy relief, they wont. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by over producing six key
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is as you pointed out there's still in place this prohibition that local municipalities can have their own anti -- sorry, discrimination laws. now he's backing off of that now. and i think calling it more or less it was hasty, poor writing, crafting of the bill. and so that's good. i give him credit for that. but still, you're allowing -- the state is allowing private businesses, for example, to say i'm sorry but we don't serve gays here or we don't let gay people spend the night in our hotels. you know, there's no recourse for those people because unless these municipalities can pass their own antidiscrimination laws, then they're out of luck. but on the bathroom bill this seems to me to be such a bogus issue altogether. i don't know what they're afraid of. you know, it's not as though you're going to have -- on the one hand i'll hear from readers in north carolina saying, so in other words you, kathleen parker, think that perverts, men, ought to be able to come into bathrooms and assault 10-year-old girls, right?
so they're being fed some kind of crazy false narrative about what this is. >> the crazy thing is, where do they want the transsexuals to go? if someone identifies, dresses looks like a woman, that person shows up in a men's room, national reagan airport, what happens then? if you follow the law the governor signed, what goes on then? you know, confusion in everything and probably a lot of disruption. >> hugh, one thing we have to point out here is that i don't know if this is true or not, but this is yet another republican governor that i feel as if his legislature did something that maybe he didn't want to do and he felt as if he had no choice but to sign the legislation. do you think that's at work here? >> it's possible. he did very well in his interview. he leaned into the problem quoting chris matthews, hang a lantern on your problem, showing up on "meet the press" on sunday is very smart. he'll probably be re-elected. but this is not the terrain he wants to fight election on. going back to your clooney interview, by the way, i thought he was a better batman than ben
affleck at least. >> the bathroom debates and batman debates here today. >> campaign financing -- >> absolutely. michael keaton. >> i want to point out that charles koch lives in wichita, kansas in the same house since he was in 1974. i want to argue that tom citier's trying to -- i don't want to argue with bathroom bills. i want to argue about isis and libya going downhill. this is not our terrain to fight. >> you know what somebody said, perry bacon, this is what happened because republicans overdid it on redistricting. these folks are listening to their constituents but only their constituents, almost a narrow band of them. >> i'm not sure in this case that's even true. as you pointed out, georgia, south carolina, nikki haley said we're not doing that law here. very explicit about that. i just think the government of north carolina and the legislature missed the boat here. he used the phrase changing social norms. he's right, people who are transgender are more accepted today. last year was a big year for gay rights. i think he might have -- you asked him have you talked to anyone transgender before this bill passed and he all but said no. i just think he made a political mistake here without thinking through the contours of the issue.
anytime you have to have an executive order to a bill you signed three weeks before you probably didn't think about the first time very carefully. all right. let's lighten things up. besides our batman debate. before we go, last night's "snl" was a real treat for "seinfeld" fans, which by the way now we're getting two decades old. with larry david as bernie sanders encountering julia lo s louis-dreyfus's elaine. take a look. >> once i'm elected president, i'll have a nice shvits in the white house gym. then i'll go to the big banks, i'll sit them down and yada yada yada, they'll be broken up. >> what? no, you can't yada yada at a debate. plus you yada yadaed over the best part. >> no, i mentioned the shvits. >> that's all we have today. i'm going to have some lobster bisque. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."
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