tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC April 24, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT
welcome, everyone. i'm alex witt. at the top of this hour, here's what's happening. we begin with an explosive new interview with conservative billionaire charles koch who explained why he's not supporting ted cruz or donald trump at the moment. >> is it possible another clinton could be better than another republican? >> it's possible. it's possible.
>> you couldn't see yourself supporting hillary clinton, could you? >> well, i -- the -- her -- we would have to believe her actions would be quite different than her rhetoric. let me put it that way. though on some of the republican candidates, before we could support them, we'd have to believe their actions could be quite different than the rhetoric we've heard so far. >> now, in that same interview, koch went a step further, saying he may not support any gop candidate. while ted cruz looks ahead to indiana, donald trump is campaigning in maryland today. it is one of five states holding a primary on tuesday. a brand new poll of pennsylvanians shows trump with an 18 point lead over cruz. 210 delegates are at stake for
the democrats in pennsylvania. ed and hillary clinton and bernie sanders are campaigning in connecticut today, while on "meet the press" sanders explained to chuck todd why he has a tough path to the nomination. >> obviously our goal now is while we have a narrow path to victory, we're going to fight through that path. we hope to win. but i think the fact that we have shown that there is massive dissatisfaction in this country with the status quo, that people want to think bigger, that people understand when you have 20 people in this country owning more wealth than the bottom 150 million people, that people are showing the desire to stand up and fight back. let's begin our correspondent coverage with the republicans.
katy tur spoke to one of donald trump's best supporters, his son. >> reporter: we were talking about what sort of candidate donald trump will be going forward. his son said he's going to be very much the same, but he believes that donald trump's core issues and his best issues are talking about jobs and the economy, job creation, especially in states that are coming up like pennsylvania, which has been hit hard in this downturned economy in the past decade or so. so he believes the message is really going to resonate there. that's the same thing i've heard from a number of insiders in the trump campaign, that they're going to move away from the social issues if they can and try to focus on his wheelhouse which is the economy. he's seen as a businessman. they believe that's his strongest message. especially now that we are out
of the more conservative states and now is campaigning in a more moderate northeast. that's the message they believe is going to play. right now he's doing well in the polls. he's expected to pick up a number of dell gaegates. right now the second ballot does still look questionable for trump. ted cruz has been extraordinarily organized when it comes to getting these delegates to move towards him on the second ballot. there is also some concern in the republican establishment that they're going to try and take the nomination away from donald trump. the campaign is using that to their advantage. they're painting themselves as the victor of the people, the one who's speaking for the people, who's advocating for them unlike the status quo and the politicians in washington when it comes to tone and which
donald trump you're seeing, either the private donald trump or public persona donald trump, there is a mixture of both. i'm often told he's a little more toned down in private, but this whole persona of him being outrageous is a part of who he is. he's an entertainer at his core, but he's also someone who's trying to champion the message of the people he believes have not been championed in the past decade, and that is job creation. we have seen a more toned down donald trump to a degree. but when it comes to whether he's going to be blustery on the campaign trail, i don't think you could expect to see that go away any time soon. let's bring in lindsay walters, national spokesperson for the republican national committee. the big state of pennsylvania
many of the delegates are elected directly. they're not bound to a candidate on the first balloted convention. in some states it's winner take all. others it's an allocated system. is it in the interest of the party to streamline this process? >> on tuesday you're going to see five states. one is pennsylvania. one is winner take all. that's delaware. then you have hybrid and proportional. again, this is up to the individual state parties and what they decide is best for their state. >> let's look at what's happened to this point. because trump right now as received nearly 8.8 million votes during this primary and caucus season, which is about 2 million more than ted cruz. so the ultimate decision to who gets the nomination is in the hands of convention delegates. is it fair that a hand-picked
group of republican insiders instead of republican voters gets to actually select the nominee. >> i think we need to remember that these delegates are elected at the most grass roots level. as long as you meet the state requirements you can be a delegate. these are voters elected in the state who then go onto represent their state on the floor. you can't get more of a grass roots process than what is happening. >> what about the rnc leadership? are they concerned about a trump candy? >> the rnc believes that anyone of their candidates is far more equipped to be in the white house than hillary clinton or bernie sanders. >> do you believe the candidate can beat the democratic
candidate out there like hillary clinton? >> we believe that anyone of our candidates can beat hillary clinton. she's untrusted. she's under fbi investigation. we believe that anyone of our candidates can beat hillary clinton or bernie sanders. >> what about concerns the trump candidacy could damage republican candidates down ballot, those for the house and the senate? >> right now our role in this is to be the arbitrator, to be the facilitator. the republicans are offering the change this country wants to go in. they don't want another four years of the failed status quo. only the republican party can get the country back on track. >> let's talk about john kasich here who has won only one state. a candidate has to have at least eight victories under his belt.
does that rule completely block kasich from the nomination? >> i think the first thing we need to note is that the rules you're referring to are simply a placeholder. the rules that govern the 2016 convention will be written by the 2016 convention rules committee. these rules are again a temporary place holder. i can't speak about hypothetical situations. what the rules will be about what's going to govern this convention have yet to be set. >> what about the rnc party leaders look at the numbers that john kasich put up against hillary clinton. bernie sanders may beat him most recently by just a slim margin. that's very different than the numbers you have against donald trump. >> this process again sup to is
the voters. the rnc is not here hand selecting who our nominee will be. the nominee is selected by the voters and the delegates. this has been the process since 1856. we will continue to follow that process. >> anyone who is a voter who is becoming, i guess -- they're feeling like their vote doesn't count, because they are being represented by delegates and they don't even know who they are half the time. do you have any sympathy for those folks who say my vote isn't counting? >> every vote is counting. whether a delegate is elected on the primary ballot or at a state convention as a voter you can
parking l they have delegates they're stacking behind their favorite candidate hillary clinton. this all comes down to votes at the grass roots level in individual states. >> let's go to bernie sanders who is right now holding a rally in providence, rhode island. chris, i know you spoke with sanders' top advisor. what all did he say? >> i think that this is a campaign that is both realistic and hopeful. and they're trying to walk that fine line. the hopefulness comes from crowds like this. they're got 5,000 people out here in providence. he's been speaking for about an hour now. interesting to note that today he's only mentioned hillary clinton once in passing. this sounds very much like a
speech of someone leading a movement more than even running a presidential campaign. he has been hitting on a broader range of issues than i've heard him talk about in a very long time. what does that mean going forward? he's got five states, rhode island being one of them. this is probably his best possible state that he could maybe pull off a win in. having said that, even if he does win here, hillary clinton already has all the super delegates who have pledged to her. so that sort of is in a nutshell the problem he faces going forward so far down in the delegate count and down in the polls in all five states. here's what his communications director had to tell me just a short time ago. >> i think there's going to continue to be a debate about the issues. what bernie is trying to do is change the democratic party, move it to a turf where people come into it.
>> finally, on a percentage basis, chances bernie sanders, whatever happens tuesday gets out of the race before california or d.c.? >> zero. >> reporter: this morning one of the things they talked at going ahead to california and d.c., the last two contests and they have a plan they are develop right now. they say they can maybe even get hundreds of thousands of young people to register, which would be extraordinary. for now, he's here in rhode island. he should be finishing up any time now. he's going to go onto connecticut and other states that vote on tuesday. and then after tuesday, depending on the results, there will be a reassessment of how they continue this campaign going forward. if donald trump is going soft, ted cruz might not believe it. donald trump is renewing attacks
on ted cruz's veracity. >> lyin' ted. he's a liar. >> while cruz is ripping trump on his take on transgender bathroom use, is he really winning over voters? >> even if donald trump dresses up as hillary clinton, he shouldn't be using the girls restroom. >> the national spokesman for ted cruz joins us next. it's true what they say. technology moves faster than ever. the all-new audi a4, with apple carplay integration. ♪ ♪
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let's talk about this new nbc news poll that's out regarding the pennsylvania votes on tuesday. it shows donald trump with a strong lead over your candidate senator cruz. has senator cruz written off pennsylvania at this point? >> no, not at all. as a matter of fact, we're activity campaigning in maryland and pennsylvania and well organized throughout all of the states that will vote this upcoming tuesday april 26th. at this phase, we're really past that point of winning states out right. now we're winning delegates. we'll win delegates on tuesday at the 26th and move onto indiana, nebraska and five states that will vote in the month of may. >> do you have any concerns when you said we're not concerned so much with winning voters as you are with delegates, that that disenfranchises voters? >> no. what i said was winning states out right. early on in this process all the
states were winner take all. but now if we look ahead to april 26th there's only one winner take allstate there. donald trump will win delegates, we'll win delegates and move on from there. at the end of the day the nomination is going to go to the candidate that can win a majority. you know, as we go forward, this is a multistate process. donald trump had an advantage in new york. he has an advantage in the northeast. he's not as strong in other parts of the country. we've done well in the five states leading up to then. it's a natural question of why did donald trump lose five states in a row leading up to new york. we're competing in every one of these states which will vote on april 26th. we'll compete hard in indiana
and nebraska. we compete hard everywhere, because senator cruz respects republican voters and the process in place. >> speaking of states that we haven't talked about certainly today, the senator secured 19 of 20 delegates in maine which is a surprise to the main governor paul lapage. as we've seen throughout the country, cruz's campaign is run by greedy high schoohooligans. >> i understand if he's unhappy at the end of the day senator cruz won the main caucuses and all of the at large delegates at stake yesterday. but we have to recognize why did senator cruz win? because senator cruz has the support of the republican grass
roots who are ultimately these grassroots activists who go to conventions. donald trump is always throwing them under the bus. he's smearing them. he's calling them insider party bosses. that's not true at all. i was elected three times statewide as a delegate to the california republican convention. these are grassroots activists who make sure the rezinpr pr-- >> let's talk about the issue of transgender rights which has been deciding the party. in fact your candidate has been on the attack over donald trump's position. here's what he said. >> this is basic common sense. let me ask you, are there any parents of daughters here? i'm the father of two little
girls. here is basic common sense. grown adult men, strangers should not be alone in a bathroom with little girls. >> the senator also released the video which attacked donald trump over this issue. do you think senator cruz is all mischaracterizing this issue? >> we dealt with this issue in the state of california. not only among republican voters, among people across the board it's basic common sense that men should use the men's room and ladies should use the lady's room. this is a particular concern in schools, in elementary schools and junior high schools and high schools and the like, bathrooms, locker rooms. it's a question of privacy and common sense. >> sir, i just want to point out that, yes, men using the bathrooms appointed to him and women as well. but he's talking about men and little girls specifically.
again, is he fear mongering. >> senator cruz is the father of two young girls. parents have a right to be concerned that their daughters are protected. if you open up the door to having anybody using the girl's room and so on, this is a prescription for problems, particularly in schools. the government has a responsibility particularly in public schools and facilities to ensure that people are protected and there's some measure of privacy to being in that vulnerable position such as being in a restroom or a locker room at school. >> as the parent of a daughter when she was little, i either accompanied her into the bathroom or i waited outside. >> you can't do that at school because you're not there. it's a different situation. the government has a responsibility to see that the students who are entrusted in their care are taken care of and protected. this is simply common sense that
adult men should not be allowed in the girls room. >> that is true but your candidate talked about public bathrooms when he made that statement. >> well, i think what the issue here at the end of the day is to make sure that some semblance of common sense prevails and that there is some measure of privacy protected and that at least a girl requecan go and use the facilities without having to worry there is some adult male lurking in that facility when that's simply inappropriate. people deserve to have some measure of privacy. >> we will certainly leave it there. ron nehring thank you very much for joining me. >> thank you. we're joined by erin mcpike. you guys listened to that discussion with ron nehring. your reaction? >> people have this conversation like transgender people don't
exist. this whole conversation is being had as though their interests don't matter. ted cruz is out there demonizing them. i think it's disgusting. it's also not working. the ad that says donald trump is just another of the pc police. does anybody believe that? i think donald trump -- he's not above demonizing people. he's looked at this and made if judgment that people are not really squacared of transgender people. people don't think there's a big issue in bathrooms requiring new laws restricting them and imposing penalties of transgender people. i think he realizes it's not a good issue for scare mongering. >> i want you to listen who what charles koch said about trump and cruz's anti-muslim rhetoric. >> what's worse is we'll have
them all registered. that's reminiscent of nazi germany. that's monstrous. >> when you hear another top presidential candidate talking about making the sand glow and carpet bombing in the middle east? >> that's got to be hyperbole, whether a candidate believes that or not thinks that appeals to the american people, this is frightening. >> how worried should the party be that one of their biggest donors is not only critical of the republican front runner but he's stopping short of endorsing hillary clinton. >> the koch brothers have become more pragmatic than anyone really thought. i think the point there with the coke brothers especially and that he might vote for hillary clinton is -- i don't know if that's a huge deal, because this is the 1% and the extreme 1%.
what the koch brothers say is not particularly representative of the rest of the country and i don't think it's going to sway any votes in any state. and i don't think it's going to take much away from the republican nominee. >> no. but might that not rattle the republican party leaders? they've depended on the kochs for money throughout the years and support. >> and they will continue to but i don't think the republican party is going to be rattled by what one person says. they have bigger problems to worry about than the koch brothers. >> trump himself is pushing back. where does the truth lie? >> trump has this persona that's attractive to a lot of the voters that support him. they don't want to see a new, boring politically correct donald trump. there has been a decline in the number of days in a month where the top news story is can you believe this thing donald trump said? it's clear he's more retastrain
in his content than in his tone. there isn't quite the same parade of outrageous statements. maybe it's a recognition that's not going to be as useful in the general election than it was in the primary where he was speetispeet i competing for attention with 16 other candidates. >> if you look at the numbers beyond this tuesday's race, ted cruz is trailing trump by eight points in indiana, 27 points in california. so what is cruz's path at this point? >> i don't really think he has one. obviously as they've said it's just to try to get some delegates. watch indiana, because we've been hearing for weeks the cruz campaign saying that they could stop donald trump in indiana. i don't think that's the case at all, that indiana would somehow be cruz country. indiana isn't really the most conservative state in the country at all.
you know, in fact in 2008 the state went for barack obama. even in terms of the republican primary electorate this is the state that had mitch daniels as a govern not too long ago. i think if donald trump stops ted cruz in indiana, that's probably the real end of the cruz campaign. >> have you heard my conversations with ron nehring again? cruz's campaign spokesperson. where do you think the truth lies there? do you think it's not a problem as they both suggest? >> it is certainly a problem if the party end up nominating somebody who got way fewer votes than another candidate in the race. the rules allow the party to give the nomination to somebody other than donald trump if trump doesn't walk in with 1237 delegates. it's complicated how to reflect the will of the voters in an election like this one where
nobody gets the majority of the vote. bill clinton won the election because he got more votes than anyone else. that's sort of how people expect elections to work. i think trump is right to point out that these rules are designed to allow them to take the nomination away from him, give them to someone who fewer voters preferred. that said, i think trip is going to walk into cleveland with 1237 delegates. i think he is going to win strongly enough in those states to have the out right majority and so this won't end up being an issue. >> sber bernie sanders and donald trump may have one thing in common. (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental.
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donald trump leading in the state of pennsylvania. kelly, with a good day to you, i know mrs. clinton has been hitting donald trump hard on the campaign trail, this time on his evolving image. what did she say? >> reporter: we are at the university of bridgeport in connecticut. there is a very large crowd outside, slow to get everybody screened to come in. to answer your question, it's very clear that hillary clinton is trying to look toward a potential trump rivalry through november. and she is hitting him on an issue that makes a lot of sense for her. it's the commander in chief test where she talks about her kre l credentials as secretary of state and says basically, almost in the voice of trump, i really didn't mean that, trying to say that trump is now repositioning himself with that front stage/backstage idea, that he is giving one thing to the big crowds and saying something else to some of the party leaders.
so she's trying to hit at him for that and said he's a loose cannon on foreign policy. and she uses the term loose cannons sometimes misfire. >> kelly o'donnell, thank you very much. a stop trump super pac is unleashing a $200,000 media blitz in maryland while one of the leading executives of the baltimore orioles is denouncing the front-runner. that story,next. pet moments are beautiful,
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front runner. i know you guys talked politics. cal, you were even walking with him through baltimore's inner city there iies there. what did you find out? >> reporter: it was interesting. we requested the interview with john angelos. as you mentioned we're a year on from the death of freddie gray. there's a new police chief. there's going to be a new mayor come november. john for his part, he's had it with the system, with the election system as it is, with the two-party system. it doesn't leave a lot of options on the table for people. >> one man, one vote, one woman, one vote, has been completely bull rushed and diluted by people with money in politics. these elections, the cost of
elections is out of control. they come in with the best of intentions. they're not a prisoner of the system, but to walk the streets and really connect with the individual voter is expensive and it's not quite as easy as that tantalizing check for $50,000 or $100,000. you've got a problem. >> reporter: in so many ways, this is a story of two cities. you have the inner harbor down where the ballpark is, where people sit on the water and eat crabcakes. then you have this, east baltimore. that mural for freddie gray is on a wall like the wall that i'm standing on now which is all rubble. this wall collapsed, killed an elderly man. now the rumor in the neighborhood is that they're going to take down that mural. it has a lot of people upset. there are going to be marches. for businessmen like john angelos it's about invested the
money they have. >> in a moment, the impact of prince and his musical artistry that some say mixed sexuality with religion. you live life your way. we can help you retire your way, too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can. i'vand i'm doing just fine. allergies.mastering life. claritin provides 24-hour relief of symptoms that can be triggered by over 200 allergens. yeah, over 200 allergens! with claritin my allergies don't come between me and victory. live claritin clear. type 2 diabetes doesn't care who you are. man. won. or where you're from.
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(vo) purina pro plan bright mind. nutrition that performs. that's the scene in minneapolis outside of prince's home and studio known as paisley park. fans still gathering to remember the artist who died thursday, the cause of his death still unknown. blake, i understand some fans who showed up there got a real surprise. >> that's right. it was a remarkable scene yesterday. members of prince's family, some of his friends, includining shea e. came out and started handing out purple boxes. inside were t-shirts, cds memorabilia. it was a really nice gesture. the fans were excited to have that.
thousands had gathered outside of the campaign at the time that happened. you can see they're back out here today despite the gray skies and the rain, we've seen thousands more come here. the family and friends yesterday came out to greet the crowd after a celebration of life took place. we have learned that prince's remains have been cremated and all of the funeral arrangements will be kept private with family. there will be no public funeral. this is as close as fans are going to be able to get, as one told me, to his spirit. that's why we're seeing so many come out here again today. again we are waiting for the toxicology results for an official cause of death, which could be several weeks. many of those fans will remember most the music. john, i'm glad to have you here because so many fans and critics alike are pouring over prince's music today trying to find meaning, perhaps like for some
kind of clue as to what happened on thursday. what do you find when you look at his music? >> it's interesting. there are some musicianly things that he does in his songs that always make them sound grand and significant, rather than just as pop songs. not to get too technical but in "take me with you" he plays the same base note at the bottom. that little thing makes it sound like god or eternity rather than just what the lyrics say. or something like "raspberry beret." why that color, why that hat? raspberry beret mentions that it's an over cascast day. it's the sort of thing the beetles did.
th he somehow made what could have been little musical baubles into something that always sounded epic. >> there was something written in the "new york times" as they were looking at his lyrics and music overall. here's the way they put it. they said, prince knew what he wanted, sex, soul and you. and so you talk not only about the sexuality of prince's music but religious over tones as well. they hit together. talk think about. how do they mesh? >> you might think that here is this person trying to describe who this person was to people below a certain age, i'm noting you say, well, he was a singer and he sang a lot about sex. how important does that really sound in itself? the sex ended up being more important because if you listen, there's often a gospel feel, a preaching feel. it's clear that for him the sex
wasn't ecstacy that was equivalent to religious ecstacy. for him it was much larger than that, he created an era rather than just hundreds of little tunes. >> time.com was reporting that tipper gore when she listened to the song darling nicky with her daughter she joined with several other political wives in 1985 in trying to put parental advisory labels on sexually suggestive music. what do you think about this kind of labeling? does it stifle artists? >> i feel a little differently about that than i would have because i have two small children. there are certain things where you might wish that your child would not be exposed to it. but to tell you the truth, even more than back then i don't think you can do a whole lot to shield people from what is
basically in the cloud and around them all the time. really you should have a conversation. if darling nicky came into the ears of one of my daughters, i would tell her exactly what it's about. i think the world would keep spinning. then i would tell her why the song was so interesting. it was a really bizarre little grind of a song. that is as educational and parental as pretending that young people aren't going to hear such things. >> you talked about the complexity of prince's music. why so complex? what was the meaning drawn from that? >> i think his meaning was that he was truly an artist. it's one thing to write a classical symphony. it raspberry beret has strings in it. there were people playing violins and cellos. who would have thought of that? he puts it in, not to mention he could play most of those
instruments. he was working really hard. the purple rain movie for example, very hard to describe to somebody why it was so important. to describe qul h. why irt was so important. you have to see. this they had already seen it three time. we saw it another three times and we had to lay down money and get in the car to go. that film is absolutely profound. even more so in that frankly the next two films didn't quite work. there was genius in "purple rain." it is his citizen cane. he was a very complex and very large figure and that's why we're all so crest fall ton find out that he died so young. >> yeah. professor john mccourter, thank you for coming in and bringing your adorable daughter. >> my pleasure. >> she is so cute. she behaved very well. straight ahead, making the switch. why the party hopping of thousands of voters in pennsylvania is raising suspicion. the all-new audi a4, with apple carplay integration.
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political leej yens from one party to another to vote in different primaries. it is especially true in pennsylvania. nearly 150,000 registered voters switched party affiliation ahead of tuesday. more than 59,000 registered democrats defected to the republican party. and joining me now from philadelphia, karen chewyst reading eagle. welcome. irknow you wrote about. this so what is the motive behind this dramatic shift in voters jumping from party to party? it seems like the motivation behind the voter registration switch is donald trump. either people love him or they hate him. so you have people that want to vote for him because they like what he has to say. they want him to be a candidate, whether they were a registered canned dade or you have people that don't like donald trump and they want to vote for someone other than him in the republican primary. or you have the people who like the democrats and want to vote
for donald trump because they think that it will give the democrats an easy win come this fall. >> so what are voters saying there in your reading area about this upcoming primary? i mean, is there a lot of talk about this? is the talk of people's minds, do you find a lot of voters feeling disenfrance ch-- disenf all? >> this is the first time in a long time where pennsylvania will matter. a lot of time the process is over by the tirm the primary reaches pennsylvania. so this will be a huge opportunity for both republicans and democrats to have a say in the primary process. so you're seeing a lot of excitement. it's also very unusual election year. so i have donald trump on one side who is more controversial and then you have bernie sanders on the other side that has a lot of momentum behind him. so you're seeing excitement on either end for that. as far as people feeling
disenfranchised because of the delegate process, it's interesting. in pennsylvania, we have the most unbound delegates going into the convention. >> 54. >> yeah. unbound delegates. that's a lot. and it seems like most of the people that we've been talking to in our readership area, the people who are running for delega delegate, they seem to want to support whoever the popular -- whoever gets the popular vote in either their district or the state which means looking at polls that could be donald trump. but what's interesting is we found out that a lot of delegates have been reached out to by the ted cruz campaign as early as january. so they started their ground game early in january kind of recruiting delegates to run for ted cruz. so come a second ballot, there could be a lot of people who go for ted cruz. >> interesting stuff. we're going to have to look at your further articles on this topic. karen chewy from the reading
eagle. thank you for joining me. appreciate it. >> thank you. and that's a wrap of this hour of live coverage. up next on "meet the press," ch chuck todd speaks with bernie sanders. have a great sunday. i'll see you next weekend on msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ (man) some things are worth holding onto. they're hugging the tree. (man) that's why we got a subaru. or was it that tree? (man) the twenty-sixteen subaru outback. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
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stuffy or runny nose, sore throat, and headache. for help lowering your blood sugar talk to your doctor about januvia. this sunday, whatever happened to the stop trump movement? >> we're winning by a lock. we're kicking ass. >> trump keeps winning. gop leaders are falling in line. and neither cruz nor kasich are gaining momentum. is it possible this stop trump movement has been stopped? >> plus, my sit-down with bernie sanders. >> i will do everything that i can to make certain that donald trump is not elected president. >> the senator on trump, his chances of wining the nomination and why he thinks he's losing to hillary clinton. >> poor people don't vote. that's just a fact. >> also, is the u.s. helping to cover up a saudi arabian government role in 9/11?