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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 25, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PDT

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is better for your skin than wearing no makeup at all? neutrogena® cosmetics. with vitamins and antioxidants. now with foundations in shades for more skin tones. ♪ good morning to you. i'm steve kornacki. topping the agenda right now, the plot to stop trump. >> kasich has no path to winning. he has no path to winning in cleveland. he will not be the nominee. >> ted cruz and john kasich striking a deal to divide up key battleground primary states. a double-team strategy that already has trump crying foul.
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their goal here is simple. consolidate the anti-trump vote behind one candidate in each primary. but the numbers say it may not be that easy for them. full details on this daring last-gasp effort to stop trump in just a minute. also on our agenda today, republicans for clinton? >> so is it possible another clinton could be better than another republican? >> it's possible. it's possible. >> billionaire republican donor charles koch says clinton may end up being the best bet in november as top republican donors continue to keep their checkbooks closed. also the veep stakes. someone on the clinton team is talking. we'll tell you what names are leaking out and why they may be leaking out now. rounding out our agend awill it make a difference? what the poll numbers are telling us about the kasich and cruz alliance in indiana and
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beyond. the answer may surprise you. it's our most important number of the day and it is also still ahead. we're going to start with the plan for indiana. a last-minute deal hashed just last night by the cruz and kasich campaigns. they're going to divide up key upcoming republican primary states in an effort to stop donald trump from clinching the republican nomination. the two campaigns releasing near simultaneous statements last night saying they would be divvying up three key races in the upcoming primary calendar. the new map now looking like this. kasich ceasing campaign operations in indiana. he'd been running between 15% and 20% in the polls there. ted cruz in return giving up on oregon and new mexico. in theory at least allowing for kasich to be the sole trump opponent in those states. kasie hunt is in washington, d.c., with the latest details on
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what is an unprecedented last f last-ditch effort by the forces. >> this is something that is just really a stunning reversal of where these two camps were just a handful of days ago. these are two candidates who were not only feuding back and forth but whose aides were also feuding. there have been conversations ongoing. overtured made back and forth. even attempts to work together. they tried to work together in michigan, and both sides came out of that primary feeling like there was bad blood, that the other side wasn't trustworthy. for this to come about, it really tells you a lot about just how strong donald trump is and how these two camps feel about the likelihood that he could get to 1237 before the cleveland convention.
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this is an enemy of my enemy is my friend situation where cruz and kasich absolutely need to have that open convention. the general wisdom, of course, is that trump can't win the nomination if he doesn't do it on that first ballot. now the question for kasich and cruz at this point is, is this going to be too little, too late for both of them? did they both essentially refuse to check their egos at the door for too long until now all of a sudden, it has really paved the way for trump. so, of course, indiana a key piece of the puzzle. if trump is able to sweep up those indiana delegates, it's very difficult to see how he doesn't get to that 1,237 number. has kasich gotten out of that indiana race early enough to pave the way for cruz to be able to win? of course, donald trump already tweeting about this. they are out with a statement essentially saying this is collusion.
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this is everything that's wrong with the system. this plays directly into donald trump's messaging around this issue, right? this is what he has been running on all the way along. this allows him to say, look at this. they are rigging -- you're watching them rig the system before your very eyes. lyin' ted and 1 for 38 kasich are unable to beat me on their own so they have to team up. that shows weakness. it's not yet clear whether it will be enough on either side. the big prize on that map is still california. and it's going to be -- i'm interested to watch how these two camps are going to negotiate around each other when it comes to that state because, of course, the congressional districts there matters so much. i've had one operative tell me it would behoove cruz to go into orange county and john kasich up to the san francisco bay area to try to find people that support them. whether or not we're going to get to the point where they are
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colluding, working together to try to figure out how to keep that particular prize from him. i think ultimately if they want to deny trump the nomination, they'll have to take it all the way there. >> one of the things that strikes me, this seems like a particular reversal for ted cruz. his message and message from everybody around him for the last month has been john kasich, you're in the way. get out of this race. john kasich, the kasich team was originally floating this idea of some kind of double-team strategy. seems like cruz is backing off his position and going where kasich has been for a while. >> and the people around ted cruz think that john kasich is a liberal. in many ways this is the opposite of the ted cruz we've come to know and most people have not come to love in washington. this is not a guy who cuts deals. this is a guy who takes these stands. does not back away from them and doesn't really care who he angers in the process. this is a real acknowledgment from the cruz campaign of where
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they stand right now. and the fact it was becoming clear to them they aren't going to be able to stop trump from getting this nomination if they didn't figure something else out. there's also this question and it varies from state to state. but the argument that kasich should get out. it doesn't work in every case because there are places where if you have two people instead of three, it's more likely that donald trump gets to 50%. they clearly made the calculation they needed kasich more than they realize. >> kasie hunt inside the stop trump movement. let's look at the big board and tell you what this is going to mean. this alliance between cruz and kasich going forward. these are the states still to come. take a look. tomorrow we have voting in pennsylvania, in maryland, delaware, connecticut, rhode island. these all look like trump states right now which means the next contest after that, indiana. this is why indiana is so key. on paper, unlike these states in the mid-atlantic and northeast opaper this is a state where ted
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cruz coupled be competitive and could defeat donald trump. it if donald trump gets the big wins we're expecting tomorrow, it becomes pivotal on ted cruz and the entire stop trump movement that they beat trump in indiana. why? because the way these 57 delegates are given out in indiana. if you win the state by just one vote, a razor thin squeaker, you get 30 of those 57 to start with. the other 27 are given out by congressional district. nine congressional districts. every one that you win you get three delegates in them. donald trump is in a situation here and this is what the stop trump people have been afraid of. if you have a three-way race in indiana, kasich, cruz, trump, they were afraid and still are donald trump gets 40, 41% of the vote. it's not a majority but a plurality. he gets all 30 of those and takes the bulk of those congressional districts. and a narrow, narrow win in
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indiana becomes 48 or 51 delegates for donald trump. in exchange, kasich saying he'll give up indiana and the pursuit of 57 delegates. cruz had to give up in return roughly the equivalent of that. you can see here new mexico, 24, oregon 28. add those two together. you get 52 delegates. here's the key. the delegates are given out differently in these two states than in indiana. not quite as dramatic. it's strictly proportional in oregon. take whatever percent of the vote you get. that's what percent you get of the delegates. down here if you are above 15% you get delegates in proportion to what you are getting. cruz saying i'm leaving new mexico. i'm going to take this off. does cruz still get more than 15% of the vote and if he, does cruz is still getting delegates out of this state. this really now is about indiana. kelly o'donnell is covering the
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trump campaign. also new information we're getting related to this cruz/kasich alliance and another change within the trump campaign. what are we learning about there? >> reporter: well, steve, this is one of those times in journalism where i haven't heard what you've been reporting so i'm running to the camera with my old-fashioned notebook. i've been talking to a lot of different contacts with different windows into this situation. let me start first with this new alliance. what i'm told by sources is this has been something that's been running under the surface between the campaigns and publicly the candidates have not wanted to openly embrace it. but this was, as i am told, the idea of the ted cruz world coming to john kasich's team over the weekend. first proposed on saturday, i am told. and then this sort of agreement was locked down on sunday. the candidates have not spoken to each other about this issue i'm told and there's no plan for
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them to do so. so, steve, think of this at the level of a campaign manager on the cruz side with a senior strategist on the kasich side, a john weaver. these are two long time politicos. they understand the delegate math. they understand the strengths, weaknesses and demographics and geography their campaigns are facing. they've come together with this. they all recognize there are some wrinkles here. to do something tactically beneficial does not mean voters will go along. they've been trying to get their voters to vote for their individual candidate. sources are telling me they aren't going to tell voters what to do but they're going to hope that those who are supporting will follow this. will understand it. they believe voters are engaged. let me continue. i've got some other notes i want you to be aware of. there's a change in the trump side now. now there is anger here because
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the trump team feels that this is unfair dealing. they've had a difficulty in attracting republican talent. that's important to note here because normally, steve, a front-runner would be able to get the best talent from across the campaigns that did not succeed. in this case, ken mckay who worked for chris christie and the rnc wanted to work for trump. wanted a role. what will he do? i'm told he'll be based in washington, and sort of a term in politics is to be a washington whisperer. that's something that trump needs, steve. you know that. a chance to have someone who can bridge the gap between traditional establishment donor class and so forth and be able to try to bridge that gap for trump. i've got more notes here i can share with you. if you want to hit me with a question, please, do. >> what else do you have here? this is a huge story unfolding before our eyes. tell us what else you're
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learning. >> here's another way of looking at this. inside the trump world there is sort of a generational divide that we probably see in lots of businesses. and because trump is so corporate, it is sort of flowing into his campaign as well. i'm told that most of the people who have originally been a part of the trump campaign since he announced in june are younger, at a different peer level than donald trump himself. so when someone like paul manafort comes in who is in his 60s, has been around, one of the sages of politics can share old political stories with donald trump who will be 70, that that connection has been described as very important for trump to be able to have a peer he could conceivably trust and listen to and someone who will actually call him donald, not mr. trump, whereas others in the campaign, i'm thinking of the campaign manager or the spokesperson, people have been very important to this campaign. still refer to trump as mr. trump. that is a psychological and a
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cultural and sort of a big picture difference that tells us something about the campaign. and it's interesting. so trump is with mckay getting another one of those, i'm going to use the word wise men of the party. that's very important because trump has really been lagging in that area. so back to the kasich/cruz or cruz/kasich alliance. here's what we know. we know that kasich will not go to indiana. i've got a plane ticket to cancel. he'll be going to oregon thursday. they'll try to get their outside groups and voters to go along with this. they recognize voters may not want to do this if they have a more emotional connection. but they're also hoping the anti-trump forces, never trump, stop trump, whatever configuration will now spend money to assist this new alliance. and some others say the alliance is a last gasp. we'll have to see how it plays out. but i'm going to keep working the phones to try to get you more information. >> kelly o'donnell in warwick, rhode island.
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a donald trump rally going to be held there today. let's bring in shawn spicer, chief strategist with the republican national committee. thanks for joiningous a very busy morning here. this cruz/kasich alliance. the best i could come up with for a precedence was the stop jimmy carter movement on the democratic side 40 years ago. they were doing the divide and conquer thing then. didn't work. can you think of seeing anything like this before? >> i can't. it's another exciting day in republican politics. we head into tomorrow with five states on the ballot. 15 left to go of the 56 states and territories. and i'm sure this isn't the last exciting breaking news that we'll see as we head towards cleveland. >> but does this look luke frik the standpoint of the trump movement, desperation maybe? ted cruz had his -- his posture has been, i should have a one on one race with donald trump. john kasich shouldn't be in this race.
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now kasich goes into new york. he beats ted cruz in those states and now cruz it seems like is stepping back and saying, all right. forget the one on one. it's two on one. does this look a little desperate? >> i think we've said this for a long time. every campaign has to run its own strategy. it's really not our job at the rnc to handicap it as much to ensure that we have a fair and transparent process. as we head to cleveland there's two options left. if donald trump gets to 1,237 bound delegates, he becomes the presumptive nominee. if he falls short of that bound delegate number, we'll has to a contested convention and it looks like that's what the strategy is of the remaining two candidates. that's up for them to decide what alliances are good or what strategy they want to employ heading up to cleveland. >> you guys are caught in the middle on this. at the same time, so much of the debate and rhetoric coming from donald trump has been about the process. has been about what he says has
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been a rigged process. sometimes it seems like he's implicating you guys at the rnc. other times he's talking more about his opponents. do you have a concern in terms of the rnc and republican party trying to be fair in all of this? do you have a concern that if donald trump is stopped this way it will play into the idea he's putting out there that this has been an unfair process? >> well, again, it's not -- our job is to be as transparent as possible. for those and i know some of the folks from your network were down covering our meeting in hollywood, florida. and we did a really good job of ensuring there was a ton of transparency. everyone saw the process work. chairman reince priebus made it clear we should make no recommendations to the delegates in cleveland. the rnc's job is to be that fair and neutral arbitter of the process. we're going overboard in doing that. we've launched a website convention facts.gop which allows people to better understand the process. and i understand we haven't been through this open type convention since 1976.
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we've got to re-educate a lot of voters and grassroots folks as to what the process is and make sure everyone understands that's it is sort of fair and transparent and everybody has got the best shot possible heading in. >> if this is where it ends up, if we end up with a contested convention, the primaries end in june and then six weeks of very public wrangling is that healthy for the republican party that this could extend all the way into the summer? >> i think the answer is it depends. in 2008, barack obama and hillary clinton went at it epiically and called each other some nasty names and dirty campaign tricks at each other. in the end they came together, unified and rolled on to victory. whether it's debate ratings or turnout in each of the states, the enthusiasm has been on the republican side. if we can go into cleveland and put on the best convention and show people republican principles and solutions that w
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will move thus country afford and walk out united, then it's a positive thing. but there are three people that potentially would head into a open convention in cleveland. two of them frankly aren't going to be happy because by the nature of the system, only one can win. as long as we have a fair process and people can say, i didn't win but was treated fairly and the process worked, then we're okay. >> sean spicer with the republican national committee. very busy day in republican politics. appreciate the time. still to come, much more on this unprecedented alliance between ted cruz and john kasich. how is it going to impact trump in next week's pivotal primary in indiana? the one thing you need to know from the hoosier state. we'll tell yeoh whou what that . first, jacob soboroff takes us delegate hunting in pennsylvania, the biggest state on the board tomorrow. those unbound delegates could make or break trump's bid for a
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it's an unfair thing because i'm way up in pennsylvania, but in pennsylvania, i think you get 17 delegates and the rest you have to negotiate for. what is this? what's going on? >> donald trump crying foul on how pennsylvania awards its delegates in tomorrow's primary. this is an important state to win with the most delegates up for grabs tomorrow. as he said, there are two categories of delegates in pennsylvania. it is a big twist. the biggest twist out there tomorrow. 54 unbound delegates that could wield some of the most unlikely power at the national convention in july. they are free agents elect inside the primary tomorrow and
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can go to that convention and vote for whoever they want to for whatever reason they want to. joining me now is the perfect person to have on the case. our resident delegate hunter jacob soboroff. that is the jersey turnpike. you aren't in harrisburg. you're on the jersey turnpike on your way to pennsylvania. you have been tracking these unbound delegates. we know all about their power. the wild card of this is so many of them have indicated they'll vote with the way their district votes or the way the state votes. all these polls showing donald trump poised for a big win in pennsylvania. how much is that going to weigh on these 54 unbound? >> it may or may not. some of the folks have said they won't vote with the way their district goes. 162 candidates. 54 slots. about one-third. almost one-third going to the convent in july. now with the cruz/kasich
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alliance in places like indiana, this matters more than before, these 54 delegates coming out of the state. some of the things they told me is truly extraordinary. take a look. i made it to andy's diner. i'm here not because i'm starving for a piece of pie. this is dell got heaven. so many unbound delegates in here because a radio program has them all in here to see who they'll support if they make it to the republican convention. you are a delegate and you are voters. >> that's correct. >> you may be supporting someone? >> i'm a trump supporter. i think trump will win the 13s congressional. i'm excited about that. >> you sign the paperwork? >> there's no paperwork. i have this. i don't know what else i can do to tell you who i'm for. >> you're running as uncommitted? there's ree people running for three spots so pretty much unopposed. >> this is a delegate to the national convention in cleveland
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in july. who are you going to support? >> i'm uncommitted at this point. >> can't we let the voters vote 50? >> the eighth district. bucks county. >> who are you going for? >> personally trump but i'm waiting to see what the constituents do. i'm pretty sure it will be trump. i'm self-funded, too just like trump. >> how much does your campaign cost? >> $35,000 which may be a record for a delegate. >> you're paying $35,000 out of pocket. >> for something i'm going to do in two days in cleveland and that's going to be the end of my political career. >> you are running for delegate. are you running pledged to ted cruz, you'll vote for him no matter what? >> that's correct. >> even if your delegates and constituents vote the other way? >> that's correct. whether it's a small minority or large minority, i'm voting to represent the people of the second district that are supporting senator cruz. i've been public about it so anyone that wants to support cruz can vote for me.
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>> is it going to say who you support on the ballot? >> no, it doesn't say that. >> have you ever thought about you may stop trump. if he's just of 1237. >> i thought about that. >> you are kind of one of the most import anant people in american politics that nobody knows about. >> celebrity for about ten minutes. >> celebrity, you said it. >> yeah. >> she is a political celebrity and will be for sure if she goes to the republican convention in cleveland. what she said is important. she is not going to listen to what the people in her district say if they don't go for ted cruz. i believe she's on the official ted cruz slate. that's the name of the game between now and tomorrow. getting as many unbound delegates to your side, signing a piece of paper that indicates you'll not change your vote when you get to the convention in cleveland. >> i'm trying to get over the guy who spends 30 grand to run for delegate. this is the michael bloomberg of
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delegate candidates. 30 grand? yeah, that's -- have a good time in cleveland. >> that must be some kind of record. and i don't know if they keep election records or financial disclosures for unbound delegate races. but that has got to be some sort of record. >> call the guinness book of records. jacob soboroff on the new jersey turnpike on his way to pennsylvania. thank you for that. and our latest nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist poll out of pennsylvania shows what's we've been seeing out of a lot of polls. donald trump nearly 20 points ahead of ted cruz. cruz and kasich duking it out for second place. but donald trump clearly in first. and by all measures in these polls looks poised for a big win in pennsylvania tomorrow. to talk more about this situation on the ground in the keystone state, let's bring in bob, the executive director of the pennsylvania republican party. thanks for joining us. let me ask you about this
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unbound delegate situation. the polls say trump's likely to win and likely to win big. let me ask you a more general question. if any candidate for president is the clear landslide choice of pennsylvania republican voters in this primary tomorrow, is there really any justification for those 54 unbound delegates all deciding to vote for somebody else? >> i think what's important here is that it's not just unbound delegates. these are folks directly elected. pennsylvania's primary has been one of the toughest stories to get through in the media and to the voters. these delegates have been campaigning for more than four months in their local areas and they have pledged different -- to different candidates in some cases. some to the district winners. and some have said they're going to do what's best for the party when they go to cleveland. each one of those voters, many of them have been here for
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decades in pennsylvania, worked for the party, local races, very well known in their communities and they'll put forward their best vision for what's going to happen for our party for tomorrow. >> we always hear and this is particularly true on the republican side, each state sets its own rules for the primary and caucuses and conventions. different rules, different states do things different ways. what is the reason the republican party decided we've got 71 delegates. only 17 of them are going to be based strictly on the primary results. the other 54 will be free agents running separately. what's the reason for that? >> well, the tradition in pennsylvania is to have unbound delegates. this election cycle we have the most bound delegates we've ever sent to the convention with the 17. but those 54 are directly elected. voters are going to be the one who decide who is going to represent their destruct whether it's because they represent a candidate or because they are going to go to cleveland and
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mirror what the results of the voters in their districts are going to be. but that process has been a longstanding one in pennsylvania. and as sean talked about, there's 50 different states and six different territories. they all run different systems and this is one that's been a tradition in pennsylvania for many, many years. >> we talked to an unbound delegate candidate last week and he estimated, if these polls are right if donald trump is getting the kind of support we're seeing, it's 45, 27 in our own poll we just put up. he think s practically speaking if you have all these delegates out there saying they will honor the vote in their district or honor the statewide vote, he thinks that would translate to about two-thirds of the unbound delegates going for donald trump in the end. does that sound about right? >> it could be. a lot of the discussion has been whether you get fewer than the percentage you get but there's also a scenario where you may get more delegates than what
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percentage you get at the polls. so i think we're going to know a lot more tomorrow when we see those delegates come through. but it's important that in pennsylvania and our tradition in working in the convention, this process is still very early. we're still not done before our june 7th final primaries. and pennsylvania delegates have a great tradition of leading their convention to declare who is going to be the nominee for our party. >> 40 years ago was the last time you had a contested republican convention. the pennsylvania delegation, you probably know something about this, was key in that one. bob, thanks for the time. >> thanks, steve. coming up -- cruz in the hoosier state. indiana. why that state is so critical to his campaign and critical to the entire stop donald trump movement and why john kasich is stepping out of the way there. we have numbers on what that's going to mean for the efforts to
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there are two people and only two people that have any plausible path to winning the republican nomination. me and donald trump. >> john kasich. >> as i said, plausible path. >> that's was ted cruz before he struck his deal with john kasich. you heard somebody in the audience shouted out john kasich. basically he said john kasich doesn't have a plausible path. now working hand in hand to try to stop donald trump. it takes us to today's most important number of the day. that number is 41. 41 has everything to do with the reason ted cruz struck this deal. that is indiana. trying to beat trump in indiana. this is a new poll from fox that came out on friday. it looks at the state of play in indiana heading into the weekend. trump was leading, cruz was
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second and kasich gobbling up a significant chunk of the vote. cruz's campaign has been looking at numbers like this and saying the single biggest obstacle to stopping and catching donald trump is getting kasich out of the way? they struck the deal. now kasich says no ads, no campaigning, i'll not do anything in indiana. ted cruz, take your best shot at trump. they looked at second choices. forget this middle part here. the question is kasich's supporters. they were asked in this poll who would your second choice be in indiana. 22% of them said donald trump. 53% of them said cruz would be their second choice. the cruz campaign was on to something there. the majority of kasich voters in indiana said if not kasich, i'd go with cruz. still there are some of them who say donald trump.
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53% of that 16, 22% of that 16, if you have a new rough total on what that does to the race in indiana, it would look something like this. trump would still be ahead. cruz would be within four. there are still a number of people saying, i have no second choice. i'm just with john kasich. 4% of them right there. his name would be on the ballot. john kasich could still be the spoiler even if he doesn't campaign in indiana. but 41% is what cruz moves up to, according to this recent poll. that's what he'd move up to against donald trump one on one. this is so critical because of that delegate situation in indiana. if ted cruz and the entire stop trump movement is going to have a shop at stopping donald trump, cruz has to catch him. in this poll it says you get kasich out of the way. cruz moves closer. but he only moves to 41. at least in this poll. at least right now. that's why the number 41 is our most important number of the
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day. we'll watch that situation. very volatile after this deal has been struck. staying with indiana, early voting there. that's another big wild card. that is another big factor in this. it's already on pace to be much bigger than it was in 2012. but also the deal was struck last night. how many people voted before this deal was struck? that's the big question here. msnbc is at the marion county clerks office in indianapolis. early voting taking place there. tony, now john kasich is out there saying, forget it. i'm done with indiana. this is cruz versus trump, but how many already voted in the last three weeks without knowing that? >> a lot of people, steve. here's the problem for cruz and kasich. in the first eight days of early voting which started april 5th, 60,000 people voted. that's twice as typical in an election year. they are on pace to be up over
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100,000 people. they have already made up their minds. in some counties where terre haute is, they've correctly predicted the presidential winner 20 years in a row. they've seen four and five times more early ballots cast. can cruz and cause itch reach voters in time? that's one question. the other question is will this galvanize trump supporters? i've got one of them here with me. this is charles winkel. just voted for donald trump. >> yes. >> do you think it's fair what john kasich and ted cruz have decided to do? >> i don't think it's fair, but -- it may upset a few people and cause them to come out and vote. >> really fascinating thing is we ran into a kasich consultant. we said who did you vote for? should be an easy question. he wouldn't answer it this
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morning. questions on that's end. back to you. >> tony dokoupil in indiana. it's a fascinating story. we saw this in arizona where marco rubio's name was still on the ballot. they had early voting there for a month. how many people in arizona voted for marco rubio before he dropped out of the race? completely changed or at least affected the outcome in that state. the question here now in indiana, make or break indiana for the stop trump movement. will the early voting there be the deciding factor? that's something we'll find out next week in indiana. a lot more to come here, including a deep dive into two of the biggest states voting tomorrow. we already talked about pennsylvania. maryland, another big test on both sides. a lot more to come here. stay with us.
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ what's we're seeing happening all across pennsylvania is we're seeing
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republicans united. >> i want to win. we want to put it away. we could have a really big -- you have to get out there maryland. we could have a big tuesday. we could have a big tuesday. >> ted cruz and donald trump in two of the biggest states up for grabs tomorrow, maryland and pennsylvania. maryland has 38 delegates on the republican side. pennsylvania has 71. again, that's including those 54 unbound delegates we've been talking about. we want to get to those states right now to see where things stand with some people who know best. john micek is the opinion editor for the "penn live" and glen lazrik from maryland reporter.com. we've been talking a lot about pennsylvania on this show. i want to getti your sense of t lay of the land. we have polling that has donald trump ahead by 18 points. other polls have shown a similar result. the bottom line question, if that's what holds, if that's how
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this primary turns out tomorrow, what's going to happen with those 54 unbound delegates? >> steve, good morning. a lot of the delegates are saying they'll go as you noted earlier with the winners of their respective congressional districts. there will be immense pressure on them if trump walks away with it on tuesday to cast their ballots on behalf of donald trump. you know, two campaigns are on the ground in pennsylvania and trying to pick off each other's delegates. we saw that as recently as last week at a trump rally at the pennsylvania farm show. a delegate had her cell phone ring from the cruz campaign. that cruz wanted to meet with her in allentown the next day. they are heavily courting these delegates. they are trying to pick off as many as they can. >> over to you in maryland on the republican side. you do things a little differently there in terms of how delegates are given out. you get 14 if you win the state. the rest of by congressional district.
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so trump has led the polls i've seen out of maryland but it sounds like when you look at the congressional districts, there may be some wiggle room there. what are you seeing? >> there may be some wiggle room, but i think the polls will be accurate and trump will win the state. it's possible that kasich might pick up -- kasich and cruz are pretty much even. kasich could pick up a few delegates, but unlike pennsylvania, these delegates are bound for two ballots, not just one. for two ballots is my understanding. and kasich could pick up some. he's in the state again, his third time in the last ten days. the trump rallies, the trump supporters are really energized, even more energized than the bernie sanders supporters. >> let me ask you --
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>> trump is going to do well. >> let me ask you about that. you mentioned the bernie sanders supporters. the democratic primary is in maryland tomorrow. bernie sanders was in baltimore. he had a rally there. impressive sanders turnout. this is a state, maryland, large black population, particularly when it comes to the democratic electorate. bernie sanders has struggled with large african-american electorates. do you expect that hillary clinton will win this state big, or does sanders have a chance in maryland? >> i don't think sanders has a chance to win it. as you point out, 40% of the democratic primary voters in maryland are african-american. we have the largest population of african-americans outside the deep south. 60% of those african-americans or more are women. there's a senate primary with a woman with a good chance to win. also running against an
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establishment candidate who also has a lot of hillary supporters. so the hillary supporters have a lot of reason to come out for other races. and i can't see -- i can't see bernie doing it, despite the clear enthusiasm of his supporters. >> john, in pennsylvania, same question to you. bernie sanders is really up against it in the delegate math. he really has to win pennsylvania. does he have a chance? >> it's an uphill slog for senator sanders. hillary clinton carried pennsylvania by ten points in 2008 against barack obama. the polling here shows her up anywhere between 8 and 15 points. there's a really good down ballot race here. a three-way democratic u.s. senate primary that will get democratic base voters excited. president obama is backing one of the candidates in that, katie mcginty. it's going to be a tough one for
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bernie sanders. >> thanks for the time. appreciate that. some breaking news to let you know about from cleveland. that city has just agreed to pay $6 million to settle the federal civil civil rights lawsuit involving the death of tamir rice. tamir rice was 12 years old when he was shot and killed by police. more details as we learn them throughout the day here on msnbc. proud of you, son. ge! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him...
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there's much more to come here on msnbc. up next, we're going to go inside the stop trump movement and the shocking alliance it has spawned. plus, we're waiting to hear the first comments from ted cruz and john kasich since news of that deal broke last night. and also, mark your calendar right now. later tonight you're going to want to tune in for a town hall doubleheader here on msnbc. it starts at 8:00. bernie sanders sits down with our own chris hayes. then immediately after that, 9:00 eastern, hillary clinton is going to join rachel maddow. all of it right here on msnbc tonight, the place for politics. not quite. sometimes those seats are out of reach, costing an outrageous number of miles. it's time to switch... to the capital one venture card. with venture,
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