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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 25, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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ch. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪ thank you. seriously though, stacy went to a great school and she's really loyal. you should give her a shot. sanjay's a team player and uh... good mondays morning. i'm erica hill in for tamron hall coming to you live from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. we're going to begin in indiana where senator ted cruz is holding a rally at this hour. of course he is focusing on indiana after we learned that john kasich will skip the may tlooe 3rd primary to help ted cruz. let's listen in as ted cruz is speaking. >> on jobs, freedom and security, that's exactly what i will be and what i will do as president. >> you and john kasich, how do you justify that, senator, when
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you look at this. donald trump has hit you already on this both on twitter and elsewhere. >> if you do win indiana, what's to stop you from doing a bait and switch in new mexico? >> well, we are all in in indiana. we are competing in this great state. indiana is a crossroads. it is a crossroads for the entire country. it is big news today that john kasich has decided to pull out of indiana, to give us a head-to-head contest with donald trump. that is good for the men and women of indiana, it's good for the country to have a clear and direct choice. after discussions with the kasich campaign, we made a decision about allocating resources. we decided to allocate our time and energy and resources on the state of indiana. governor kasich decided to allocate his resources elsewhere. i think that made sense from both campaigns. >> what would you say to voters about a divide and conquer strategy. even if you're not a trump supporter, nonetheless kind of
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subverts the will of the people. >> this is entirely about the will of the people. this is about winning the votes of the hoosier state. we're at a fork in the road. we are at a fundamental fork in the road. if donald trump is the nominee, hillary clinton wins. hillary clinton beats donald trump by double digits. and if hillary wins and wins in a landslide, that not only costs us the presidency, we lose the senate, we may lose the house, we lose the supreme court for a generation, we lose the bill of rights becomes put into real jeopardy. and i'll tell you here in the state of indiana, donald trump at the top of the ticket losing in a landslide would cost republican seats all throughout the state of indiana. we're not going to let that happen, the stakes are too high to allow our kids and grandkids to be buried in trillions more in debt. to continue down another four or eight more years of the failed obama-clinton economy. the stagnation that we've been
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facing. if donald trump is the nominee, hillary clinton wins and indiana's coal industry will be bankrupted. tens of thousands of jobs will be lost in the state of indiana if donald trump is the nominee because it guarantees hillary clinton a win. if i'm the nominee, we beat hillary clinton. we beat hillary clinton in key swing states. we beat hillary clinton among independents. we beat hillary clinton with young people. >> did you offer kasich any kind of deal to work with you? >> we had conversations and both campaigns agreed to focus our energies. we're focusing our energy on the state of indiana and governor kasich is focusing his energies elsewhere. i think that is a decision, an allocation of resources that makes a lot of sense and it's devoted to the principle of beating hillary clinton in november and turning this country around. >> some are seeing this as a sign of desperation from both of the camps, that they have to
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beat donald trump together and you can imagine donald trump will use that today. >> i don't doubt that donald trump will scream and yell and curse and insult and probably cry and whine some as well. that has been donald's pattern. now, i recognize everyone got all excited because last week donald won his home state. which i'm amazed that's news any wrchlt of course donald won his home state. i can tell you in the five elections that preceded new york, over the course of three weeks, we won landslide elections in all five, starting with utah, then north dakota, then wisconsin, then colorado, then wyoming. we won five landslides in a row, beating donald trump five times in a row. and 1.3 million people voted in those five states. it was a massive turnout. we won landslides. and indeed, i earned more states in the state of wisconsin than donald trump did in new york. so, yes, i agree there is desperation on the trump side. and the reason donald trump is
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desperate is because it is now abundantly clear nobody is getting to 1237. >> was this a hail mary? >> it is abundantly clear that nobody is getting to 1237. we are headed to a contested convention. and at a contested convention, donald trump is in real trouble. why? because he cannot earn the support of a majority of the delegates elected by the people. donald has had consistently a hard ceiling of about 40% that he can't break. donald has been a minority candidate, a fringe candidate. now, he's benefited early in the race by having a multitude of opponents where the opposition to donald was diffuse. but what we have seen happening over the last month is the republican party uniting behind our campaign. indeed, of the 17 candidates who started this race, five have now endorsed our campaign. rick perry, lindsey graham, jeb bush, scott walker and carly fiorina. we are seeing the full spectrum of the republican party uniting. and let me say something about
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the hoosier state. there is a common sense sensibility about this great state. you've had leaders like governor mitch daniels, like governor mike pence, who roll up their sleeves and solve problems. who understand that when you cut taxes and lift regulations, the result is small businesses grow and jobs expand. we need a president in the spirit of mitch daniels and mike pence. that is exact low what this campaign is based on. my number one priority as president is jobs and economic growth. if i'm elected president, we'll repeal every word of obamacare. we will pass a simple flat tax and abolish the irs. we will rein in the epa and the federal regulators, especially the epa that is killing the coal industry, killing tens of thousands of jobs here in the state of indiana. and we will stop amnesty and end sanctuary cities. and the effect of all of that is that we're going to see millions and millions of new high-paying
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jobs coming back to america. we're going to see wages rising again. we're going to see manufacturing jobs coming back to indiana, coming back from china, coming back from mexico. we're going to see young people coming out of school having two, three, four, five, job opportunities again. that's what this election is all about. >> last question. >> to voters who have watched you run as an outsider all these months now see you making this deal to john kasich, how do you justify that as not collusion? >> listen, i have been from day one an outsider. and the proof is in the pudding -- >> but now you're -- >> hallie, let me answer your question, please. the proof is in the pudding. the voters can ask who has stood up and led the fight against the washington cartel from day one. i am the only candidate who has taken on not just democrats but leaders in my own party over and over and over again. when i ran for senate, i promised the people of texas i would lead the fight against obamacare. that's what i did in the senate,
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much to the annoyance of the washington cartel. as president, i'll repeal every word of obamacare. when i ran for senate in texas, i promised the voters i would lead the fight against amnesty. that's what i did in the senate, leading the fight against the gang of eight amnesty bill. at the same time that donald trump was funding the gang of eight, giving over $50,000 to the proponents of amnesty, i was leading the fight and we defeated amnesty in congress. as president, i will stop amnesty, we'll secure the borders, we'll end sanctuary cities and we will end welfare benefits for those here illeg illegal illegally. >> respectfully, sir, how is it not collusion? what do you say to those people who say that it's collusion? donald trump is saying that you are colluding and we expect to hear from him again ganand agai and again. >> i understand that donald will whine. that's what he does. donald is a sore loser. when he lost five states in a
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low in landslide elections, donald through a tantrum. his response is to attack the voters. his response is to attack the people. yes, i get that the trump campaign is scared. they're scared of indiana. if donald wasn't scared, he'd show up in indiana and have a debate. but he would much rather hide in trump tower. he'd much rather stay in northeastern states that tend to be more liberal than actually come to the midwest, come to the heartland and defend his policies. the past week donald trump agreed with hillary clinton on raising taxes. in the past week donald trump came out and agreed with hillary clinton that adult grown men should be able to go into little girls restrooms. and in the past week, donald trump's campaign manager, who is a long-time washington lobbyist, and this is important for people to understand, the entire trump campaign is run by washington lobbyists. it is the washington cartel. donald is the system. it is the lobbyists who are running his campaign. his lobbyist campaign manager
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went and talked to the top brass of the rnc and said donald is just putting on an act. this is a role he's playing. he's just on stage, he's just pretending. he doesn't mean what he said. now, at first the trump camp denied that. that's their standard is to deny everything. unfortunately for them, it was actually caught on tape, so we have the tape of donald trump's lobbyist campaign manager saying this is all an act, this is all a fake, he's a phony. interestingly enough, that's almost the exact same thing donald trump told "the new york times" back in january when he sat down with "the new york times" editorial board. trump told them he doesn't believe what he's saying on immigration, he's not going to build a wall, he's not going to deport anyone. once again, "the new york times" has a tape. now, the trump campaign denies he says that but won't let "the times" release the tape. if he didn't say he's not going to build a wall, he's not going to deport anyone and he's simply faking it on immigration, then donald should release the tape
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and his supporters should demand that he release the tape and prove his innocence. donald won't do that for the same reason that he won't show up at a debate. because this is a fraud that the lobbyists in washington are attempting to perpetuate on the american people. this is a fraud. the stakes are too high for us to get fooled again. and we're all used to politicians who betray us after they get elected. donald is betraying us before he gets elected and he's telling us he's lying to us. and so we are fighting to beat donald trump for the nomination. we are going to beat donald trump for the nomination. no one is getting to 1237, we're headed to a contested convention. and at that convention the nominee will be decided by whoever can earn the support of a majority of the delegates elected by the people, and i believe the only candidate who will be able to do that is me. and when we earn the support of a majority of the delegates, we're going to go forward and beat hillary clinton in november.
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donald can't -- it would be a disaster for republicans, for conservatives and for the country. and, yes, i understand that the trump campaign is going to scream and cry. that's what they do. whining is what they do. because you notice, it is never, ever, ever donald's fault. can anyone think of any instance when donald has ever said he's done anything wrong? it does not appear that he thinks that's possible, that donald could do something wrong, so it's always the voters' fault. it's always the people's fault. it's always somebody else's fault. but donald j. trump. you know what, we need a president who understands the principle of the buck stops here. donald trump needs to learn to take some responsibility for himself. and if he wants to make the case, show up and debate. don't hide behind your media surrogates. because you're terrified of scrutiny. answer the questions from the
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voters. have it be a town hall, real hoosiers asking real questions about real problems. and if donald is too terrified to answer the questions asked by the people of indiana, how on earth is he going to stand on a debate stage with hillary clinton. if he's scared of the voters now, how bad do you think he would be in a general election. and by the way, we've all seen a candidate in a general election who's a loose cannon who will say any given thing on any given day, who will wake up one day and say as donald trump did that he thinks women should be punished for having abortions. that's an absurd position. >> one he walked back. >> you're right, every day if donald trump were the nominee, we would see a circus of loose cannon statements that he tries to walk back the next day. and that would result in disaster for republicans across
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the country. now, i get that hillary clinton would be thrilled to see the donald trump train wreck in the general election. i get that the media, the network execs in just about every network are card-carrying democrats, they are ready for hillary. nothing would thrill them more than a bloodbath that elects hillary clinton and gets great ratings while it's happening. that is the perfect storm from a media network executive's view, but it is a terrible outcome for the people. and this election is going to be decided by the people. and the hoosier state, the entire country, its eyes are on this great state to choose between path do we want to go down. do we want to go down the path of nominating a candidate whose entire campaign platform consists of yelling and screaming and cursing and insulting anyone and everyone it can find. or do we want instead a positive, optimistic, forward-looking conservative campaign with real policy
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solutions to the challenges facing this country that will bring jobs back to america, will raise wages and expand opportunity for everyone. that's what this election is about. >> so you were just listening to senator ted cruz there speaking in indiana where he has an event today and he was talking of course initially about this deal, this agreement between himself and john kasich. ted cruz saying there he is all in in indiana and that this is, in his words, entirely about the will of the people. that the two of them are devoted to beating hillary clinton in november. our own hallie jackson tried to get him to respond to some allegations from the trump campaign. donald trump has said this is an act of collusion. that is a word they are floating a lot today. hallie asked ted cruz to respond twice to that. he did not answer that directly, twice dodging it, instead going on to talk about donald trump in broader terms. we want to turn to peter
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alexander who is live on the phone with us from philadelphia where governor kasich just met with voters at a local diner. he is the other half of this agreement that took a lot of people by surprise sunday night. is he responding directly at all to these comments that we've heard from the trump campaign this morning? >> reporter: what was striking is the similarity and the language used by ted cruz and john kasich. he got to this diner here at philadelphia, the opportunity to meet with voters but clearly this is a moment where reporters wanted to pepper him about the deal. i asked him right out of the gate whether he would direct his voters to vote for ted cruz in indiana. he said absolutely not. in fact he says that would be nuts. he said this was, like ted cruz has just communicated, this is all about a distribution of resources, an allocation of resources. here's more of john kasich just a short time ago. >> is this collusion? >> is it -- no. what does that even mean.
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>> the two of you are teaming up to compete against donald trump. >> no. the two of us are competing to win the nomination and to get -- and to make sure that we can steward our resources so we can stop hillary clinton. >> reporter: as governor kasich told me, he said i don't have daddy warbucks' dollars. we have to be cautious and we have to be smart about the way that we spend our money. so his events in indiana are now officially cancelled. kasich told us that he has not spoken directly with the candidate, with ted cruz. in fact it was staff that participated in the creating of this deal. i'll told by sources close to the negotiation that the initial outreach happened by team cruz to kasich's camp on saturday before it was finalized yesterday and they put out the stunningly similar statements between the two. john kasich was scheduled to have several events in indiana. those are cancelled, including the event that was supposed to take place tomorrow night.
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he was hoping to be in indiana tomorrow night while five of the northeastern states were voting to try to get a head start on that next state, indiana, on may 3rd. that event is now off. he has no public events scheduled tomorrow night. erica. >> so interesting as we watch all this play out. talk about a way to kick off the week and the language that is so very similar between john kasich and ted cruz. just to reiterate, i want to make sure i heard you correctly because my sound was going in and out. he did tell you he will not direct his supporters in indiana to vote for ted cruz, is that correct? >> reporter: that is correct. he said that would be nuts. he said clearly the problem with it is that sort of undermines this entire strategy. like for this to work, you can't just say we're not going to spend money there, you need to say to your voters, i need my voters to vote for ted cruz to defeat donald trump in this situation. first of all, john kasich isn't going to do that. second of all, a lot of john kasich's voters, their second
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choice is ted cruz. roughly 50% say if not john kasich, they would support ted cruz. but 22% say they would support donald trump. i want to be very clear about that. so in other words, it's not like 100% of kasich votes will go to cruz right now. the question is how many of those people are going to be satisfied with this deal and who may change their mind? >> it will be interesting to see as we talk to more voters throughout the day. peter alexander joining us from from philadelphia today on the phone. peter, thank you. i want to turn now to kelly o'donnell who is covering the trump campaign for us today. kelly, as we know, the trump campaign and donald trump on twitter have had a lot to say so far. donald trump's first event i know scheduled for a little bit later today and you're there. give us a sense what are you hearing from people in terms of their reaction and some of the folks behind you, how did they see this alliance between cruz and kasich? >> reporter: i think it's important just to set the scene a little bit because what we have here in warwick, rhode island, is a line that stretches
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all the way around this entire building. this is a hotel, big campus, the kind of place people hold weddings and banquets, lots of space here and a local law enforcement officer said it's wrapped all the way around. they are heading in this line to go through security. security at trump events just from my own observation and experience is a bit more intense than at others who also have secret service protection. that's just my observation. i'm not making a statement about safety. and they go through a process of getting tracked and screened. and then on the other side of this building there is a giant white tent. the kind of thing that celebrities get married in that will hold the event. not inside the hotel itself. so that's the scene. this is warwick, rhode island. this is an event that was added late, so it's kind of interesting that folks knew to get here, that kind of thing. okay, now back from the scenics
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to the substance. donald trump is using a word that a man in business certainly would, collusion. it means businesses that might work together, competitors who would set pricing, it's illegal. it's a term that fits right into his argument when he's called the process corrupt or rigged. again, terms that are punchy and loaded and suggest wrongdoing. that is part of the donald trump playbook. talking to voters here, they -- first of all, some weren't aware of the new wrinkle because they have been waiting in line for hours. but the reaction is what you might expect, erica. frustration. those who are long-time republicans are saying why isn't the party helping? why isn't there more of the establishment figures coming forward? they also, because those who are trump voters say that why haven't the other campaigns accepted that he's going to be the nominee? it's that kind of thing. talking to real people who have a chance to cast a vote who want
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to see donald trump in person, i spoke with a woman, mother of four, says that she gets some pushback from people about her support for trump. she's a twin. her twin sister is a democrat, doesn't understand her sister's politics. but she said she really believes that donald trump can change things and shake things up. that's just one anecdote from here in the crowd. a lot of energized people who still have hours to wait before they get to see donald trump. again, on substance, donald trump has added a new person to his team, a former chief of staff from the rnc, someone from rhode island, that's important before tuesday, which is now tomorrow, and someone who worked for the chris christie campaign, the short-lived chris christie campaign that did not succeed. i am told that ken mckay will be working with donald trump's team from washington trying to help bridge trump to that establishment. if he does become the nominee, he needs that kind of help. erica? >> it will be interesting to see if we see any changes too moving
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forward based on that mu help in trying to bridge that gap. kelly o'donnell for us in warwick, rhode island, ahead of donald trump's first of three events today there. i want to turn now to nbc's hallie jackson. if you were with us at the top of the hour you saw hallie was there at that press availability that senator ted cruz had just moments ago. we saw her ask twice to get some reaction to this word of collusion and, hallie, you couldn't really get an answer out of the senator on that one. >> reporter: what he did, erica, i'm going to speak in a bit of a golf whisper because we are at his event and it's a rather small room and we don't want to be too disruptive, but he continued to pivot to point donald trump as a sore loser and a whiner. he didn't address this as to whether this is collusion, an attack line donald trump and his aides have pushed already. so what cruz is trying to do is push trump to debate him here in indiana. that is why he continued to pivot to that. he said that donald trump keeps complaining and keeps whining. this is a line that we've heard
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in the past. he also acknowledged that this teaming up between his campaign and governor kasich's campaign could do what they ultimately needed to do, which is get both of these candidates to a contested convention. the math is virtually impossible for cruz to wrap up the nomination outright which means cleveland is his best hope, his only hope. same goes for governor kasich. that's why you've seen cruz work that delegate hunting. if this does go to a second ballot, cruz would be well positioned, at least that's the hope from his campaign, to try to take the nomination. again, though, all of this depends on getting to that second ballot. even if -- peter was talking about the math between kasich and cruz and not all of kasich's supporters would necessarily back cruz here in indiana. even if cruz were to end up with a dominant victory in indiana, that does not knock donald trump out of the race. he still has the possibility of doing well in california and
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picking up unbound delegates in pennsylvania. so it's not going to be necessarily a knockout blow for donald trump even if it works as cruz and kasich hope here in indiana. >> hallie jackson, thank you. we want to bring in scottie nell hughes, a trump campaign surrogate. good to have you with us. >> thanks for having me. >> so we've been hearing from the trump campaign, there donald trump himself words like desperation being thrown around, collusion being thrown around. we heard senator ted cruz just turn that charge of desperation in fact back on donald trump. but is there a concern within the trump campaign that this could keep donald trump effectively from reaching that magic number of 1237? >> absolutely not. in fact i think this might actually back fire because i think a lot of ted cruz's supporters woke up this morning kind of scratching their heads and doubting ted cruz, how strong of a principled conservative is he if he's sitting here and teaming up with a guy like john kasich who has
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run on pro common core, pro amnesty, pro tpp, pro nafta, pro obamacare because he set up his own exchange in ohio, the exact things which made ted cruz popular as a senator and as the second person in this race, he's teamed up with this guy. i think a lot of conservatives are how strong would ted cruz stand if he was elected president or would he capitulate and gave in and bond with these friendships. i think this is actually going to hurt cruz. i think the other thing you need to look at, erica, is looking at why is this happening right now? what does kasich actually bring to the race? prior to this, ted cruz had only won two states east of the mississippi river. we have yet to find out why ted cruz didn't do so well in the south, an area saturated with evangelicals, when in cases like georgia he came in third place. why his message is not resonating both in the northeast as well as the south and then how is this going to affect friendships down the road.
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did carly fiorina and governor perry wake up and go, wait a minute, are you now brokering deals with kasich that might be that vp slot we've been aiming for? a lot of interesting components that doesn't make sense as to why ted cruz decided to form this alliance with john kasich. >> it will be interesting to see. we'll look at some of those points of course throughout the day. i want to ask you a little bit more about donald trump right now. there's been some talk, especially in just the past week, ever since paul manafort came in and made these allusions to the fact that we'd start to see a different donald trump, that he would change his tone a little bit and appear more presidential. he addressed that over the weekend. let's take a listen. when donald trump was speaking to us over the weekend, i think we have the sound from donald trump. just a sec. >> so they talk about changing personality and presidential -- i think i look real good. i mean i think i look like a
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president. you mean kasich looks better than trump? i think a lot of people would disagree with that. cruz? cruz? you think, lyin' ted is better? why would i change? it's so much easier to be presidential. i don't have to use any energy. i can just walk out. so much easier. you think this is easy, ranting and raving? i've got to entertain 18,000, whatever the hell number of people we have here? >> so clear it up for us, is that entertaining, is it not entertaining, are we going to see a different donald trump? is he going to be more, quote unquote presidential and tone down the rhetoric or is this the man we would see if he would win the white house? >> we're talking about tone, we're talking about presentation. mr. trump is a businessman. in business you have the same product and present it differently based upon the environment or who you're trying to sell it to but you don't change the product. that's how mr. trump has been
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from the very beginning. he was competing against 17 people. he obviously had a better branding than all of the other candidates since he's at the top and has been since the day he announced. mr. trump even more can change his tone and be in different areas, whether it's business, whether it's hosting "saturday night live," whether it's out hosting a crowd at the mega rallies. he can change his tone but he's still the same product. he's not compromising on his principles or foundation, and he's not doing anything to make people doubt that. unlike ted cruz with this alliance with john kasich makes you go maybe, maybe, you haven't seen any weakness come from donald trump. you're seeing that from ted cruz and that's almost a sign of desperation that he's willing to compromise in times of trouble. that's something you would never see out of a donald trump presidency or administration. >> we'll have to leave it there for today. thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. we want to check in now with the kasich campaign and get some of their reaction to this alliance with the cruz campaign. also some of the things we've been hearing from the trump
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campaign in reaction. trent duffy is a national spokesman for the kasich campaign and joins us now. nice to have you with us. >> nks ththanks, erica. >> governor kasich just spoke with our own peter alexander in philadelphia and was very clear saying this is absolutely not collusion, it's simply about resources. but interesting that there's this alliance here and he's pulling out of indiana, but yet will not tell his supporters to vote for cruz. how is it an alliance if he's not trying to bring them in and actively recruit those supporters for ted cruz? >> this is about two things, erica. 63% of republican voters do not want donald trump to be their nominee. so this is about marshaling the support and having those voters having their voices heard at the convention in cleveland. the other point that's important here is 67%, which are donald trump's negatives. those are eclipsing david duke's in 1992, which is why there's such fear amongst the party about a bloodbath in november. donald trump has no chance of beating hillary clinton and he puts the senate into play for
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democrats as well as supreme court. so this is about supporting the 63%, the vast majority of republicans that don't want donald trump. and that's why we're seeing some support for this strategy. >> but what about some of the supporters who were behind your candidate who wanted to see john kasich, is this effectively telling them that their voices don't matter in places like indiana? >> hardly at all, it's quite the opposite. it's telling them that john kasich will be at the convention, he will be on the ballot and will be an option for the people that want john kasich. john kasich has won 15 national polls against hillary clinton. he's the only one that can beat her and that's why we're confident the delegates will gather in cleveland, look at all the data and decide he is the best person not only to be the republican nominee but to be the president of the united states. so this is going to be an open convention. donald trump is not going to get to the 1237. and i think that the delegates who have dedicated their lives to republican principles,
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republican party ideals and looking at who is best able to win in november will come to the conclusion that donald trump is not the person to do that. that's why we're seeing support for this. >> as i understand it, governor kasich and senator cruz did not talk about this directly, it was their campaigns who talked through this. have the two spoken at all today and do they have plans to? >> no, not to my knowledge. i mean this is, as you said, negotiated amongst the staffs but this is reflective of the unprecedented race that we find ourselves in. we're going to have an open convention, that the delegates will be able to decide who's best to represent the party. john kasich is picking up endorsements from "the baltimore sun, " "the philadelphia enquir enquirer." he's best able to compete with donald trump in the northeast. he does very well in the northeast and that's why he can go out west to places like oregon and new mexico that match his brand of optimism and do well there. that's what we're seeing. john kasich is going to push
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forward. >> when we see these two names come together, it's tough not to wonder if there is perhaps a further discussion happening. is there talk of a potential cruz-kasich/kasich-cruz ticket? >> no, not at all. this is about getting to an open convention so all the candidates left in the race have an ability to be considered by the delegates. so those are discussions that will happen much later in the process. we're just looking forward to competing not only tomorrow in the northeast but out west, which is a good thing for the republican party, because republicans out west will have a chance to have their voices heard for the first time in many years. >> trent duffy joining us from the kasich campaign this morning. thank you. >> thank you, erica. much more to come on what is a very busy monday in politics. hillary clinton set to hold an event in delaware. we'll bring you the latest on that. we're coming to you live from the urban tap in steel city, pittsburgh, pennsylvania. we'll show you a little bit more
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live pictures for you here out of wilmington, delaware, where we will soon see democratic candidate hillary clinton. she's at a campaign event. you see delaware senator tom carver. delaware is one of the five primary battles we are looking forward to tomorrow. hillary clinton leading in all of that polling and it could all but eliminate bernie sanders from the race. in another sign of a general election pivot, the campaign is out with a new campaign ad called love and kindness which the clinton campaign argues is the antidote to donald trump. kristen welker joins us. we're seeing that pivot and heard these interesting comments from charles koch saying maybe hillary was actually a better chance than some of the
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republican choices. let's take a quick listen. >> so is it possible another clinton could be better than another republican. >> it's possible. it's possible. >> you couldn't see yourself supporting hillary clinton, could you? >> well, her -- we would have to believe her actions would be quite different than her rhetoric, let me put it that way. on some of the republican candidates, we would -- before we could support them, we'd have to believe their actions will be quite different from the rhetoric we've heard so far. >> so of course the big reaction to that, kristen, is that it wasn't exactly a no. the clinton campaign i'm sure has some things to say about that. how are they reacting today? >> reporter: well, they are reacting, it's interesting, erica. she clearly still has her eye very much on this primary. let me read you the tweet she sent out in the wake of that interview. she said not interested in endorsements from people who
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deny climate science and try to make it harder to vote. so clearly she didn't see that as a positive in this primary election. but what a fascinating election cycle that you have. one of the koch brothers coming out and saying we're not completely ruling out hillary clinton. of course what's so fascinating is that he has yet to endorse anyone in this primary election cycle and really put their money behind any of the republican candidates. so it just adds one more interesting aspect to what is already an incredible election cycle. look, secretary clinton as you rightfully pointed out, erica, has increasingly been pivoting to the general election after that huge win in new york. we've seen that on the stump in that ad you just played. over the weekend, some buzz about who she may be looking at for a potential vp pick. i think we have a graphic of the list coming together. sort of the usual suspects, the people you would anticipate. sherrod brown of ohio, tim
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kaine, senator elizabeth warren. senator warren has yet to endorse anyone. there's not -- it's not believed that there's a really close relationship between warren and clinton. some other names, tom perez, the labor secretary, julian castro, the hud secretary and cory booker. you have to think that the clinton campaign has been thinking about this during the entire election cycle but of course as they get closer to potentially clinching the nomination, the vp pick comes into sharper focus. erica, i'll make one more point. the fact that there is so much buzz surrounding this over the weekend, really a message from the clinton campaign to senator sanders, it's time to think about starting to get out of this race. this race is winding down. of course the sanders campaign saying they're absolutely not going to get out of this race. senator sanders still believes he has a path to the nomination, but it is increasingly narrow. and what happens tomorrow could
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determine a lot. if clinton has a very strong night, it's going to be tough for him to keep going forward. erica. >> and that of course will be the big question as we watch that. that will start to develop in the next 24 hours or so. kristen welker out of wilmington, delaware, for us this morning. we want to let you know msnbc is hosting two exclusive town halls tonight. chris hayes will host the bernie sanders town hall at 8:00 p.m. eastern. rachel maddow hosts the hillary clinton town hall at 9:00 a.m. eastern. you'll see them both only right here on msnbc. coming up, we take you live to indiana to hear what voters there have to say about the shocking alliance between ted cruz and john kasich, all part of an effort to defeat donald trump. so will john kasich supporters actually make the switch to support ted cruz? we'll take a deeper look next and we'll have much more to come live from here at the urban tap in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. stay with us, you're watching msnbc, the place for politics.
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ted cruz and john kasich's alliance to stop donald trump from winning the gop nomination relies on ted cruz winning the indiana primary. that, of course, is next tuesday, may 3rd. since april 5th, however, over 30,000 people have already voted in early in-person ballots. that's nearly double the number from 2012. another 20,000 have voted via absentee ballot. nearly 20% more than a typical presidential primary, so a lot of engagement. a lot of people looking to have their voices heard in the hoosier state. tony dokoupil is live in indianapolis to tell us how that could impact the stop trump effort. >> reporter: good to see you, erica. could have a very, very big impact. this is an early ballot application right here. a lot of people have been through to pick these up. you mentioned those numbers earlier. they have increased. we're on pace for 240,000 early
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and absentee ballots in the state of indiana. that is double what it was in 2012. that is a big problem for john kasich and ted cruz, because they want this alliance to come through, but many of the voters, more than 10% perhaps, have already cast a ballot. there's only one week left. i've got a kasich supporter here with me, very interesting guy. this is john. >> how are you. >> reporter: you heard about the alliance. >> i did. >> reporter: the big question is, is it going to work? when i talk to you i think maybe not because you didn't do what you were supposed to do, did you? >> no, i did not. i voted for kasich. >> reporter: why don't you vote for cruz? >> for me it was about voting my conscience, voting for the man and not the game so i came in and voted for kasich. >> reporter: but you realize that by voting for kasich, you are giving donald trump a clearer path to 1237. how do you feel about that? >> you know, for me again, like i knew about the news, i knew about the alliance, but i couldn't bring myself to vote for cruz. so i came in here with that solid foundation with kasich and
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had to vote kasich. >> reporter: you wanted to vote for the guy and not the game. >> got to vote for the guy and not the game. >> reporter: he's not the only voter who feels that way. we talked to another kasich supporter who couldn't vote for cruz. like john kasich, wanted to stick with it. we've talked to a lot of trump voters coming through this door. that's the ballot behind me. they told me this just proves everything they suspected all along, the game is rigged, there are back room deals, it's cheating and now it's just become public. so this plays right into the hands of donald trump who of course at rallies today will bring this up over and over again. so we could see it back firing here. the kasich and cruz alliance may not come in time because so many have voted early. at the same time, it may galvanize trump voters to get to the polls and have their voices heard. erica. >> interesting the way that you put it there with john. he was saying he was voting for the guy, not the game. as you pointed out, that is in many ways one of the talking points that donald trump has. that this plays into what he is
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saying about this being a rigged system. as we just heard from both governor kasich and his campaign, a spokesman who was on to this earlier, john kasich isn't telling people like john, who you were speaking to, to vote for ted cruz. so is it a sense this just doesn't make sense to voters? >> there's a sense that even the cruz people, who understand why it's happening and why this appliance is taking place and appreciate that kasich is pulling out, they don't like it. it makes them a little bit itchy. donald trump is saying, look, we don't have a popular vote, this is unfair, and even people who like cruz and people who like kasich, they kind of agree. they don't really like the look of this and they feel like on the trump side, well, it seems a bit like desperation. if we can't beat him outright, then maybe we're not going to make it this year, it's not our year after all. and then you heard from our guest, john, great line. i'm going to vote for the guy, not the game. he's not comfortable with it and not going to do it. we have yet to find a single kasich supporter who has crossed
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over and voted for cruz for strategy reasons. >> fascinating those numbers that you were saying, twice the number of early and absentee ballots and nearly a quarter million right now. tony dokoupil from indianapolis. an appeals court has reinstated new england patriots tom brady's four-game suspension. this all has to do with the deflategate scandal. the suspension, you may recall, had been overturned last year. brady and the patriots went far in the playoff losing the afc championship to peyton manning and the denver broncos. as we're learning, an appeals court has reinstated that four-game suspension for tom brady. coming up here, we return to politics. although sports can get pretty political, as we know. we'll meet some of the unbound delegates in pennsylvania who could help determine whether or not donald trump wins the nomination. we have just one day, of course, ahead of that state's primary. we are here live in pittsburgh as we continue to talk to that. we're here at the urban tap where the lunch crowd is just
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tomorrow's primary is here in pennsylvania will be crucial for the candidates of both parties. it is those 54 unbound delegates up for grabs on the republican side could have the biggest impact on the party's convention comes july. jacob soboroff is joining us from the roads to philadelphia. happy monday. >> reporter: good morning, happy monday to you. the new news that cruz and john kasich is going to team up to get the maximums from donald trump. the 54 delegates are more important than before. who are these people. are they going to commit to the
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candidates. that's what i try to find out here in philadelphia. take a look. >> i made it to andy's diner in pennsylvania and i am here not because i am starving for a slice of pie even though i am. this is delegate hunting heaven and there are so many unbound delegates here. their radio program has them all in here to see who they'll support if they make it through the republican convention. >> i am a trump's supporter for sure. i think trump will win the 13 congressional so i am excited about that. >> did you sign the paper work? >> i don't know what else i can do to tell you who i am for. >> you are running as what? >> uncommitted. >> there are three people running for r three spots. >> this guy is going to the convention now. >> who are you going to support when you get there? >> i am uncommitted at this
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point. can we let the voters vote first in the district? >> jim, who are you going for? >> personally, i was voting for trump but i am going to wait to see how the constituents will do. >> whoa, you are paying $30,000 out of pocket? >> yeah, something i am going to do and that's my end of political career. >> you are running for delegate, are you going to vote for ted cruz no matter what happens? >> that's correct. >> and even in your constituents vote the other way? >> that's correct. whether it is a small or large minority, i am voting to represent the people of second district that are supporting senator cruz. i have been public about it. anyone wants to support cruz can vote for me. >> is it going to say who you are going to support on the ballot? >> no, it does not say that.
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>> have you thought of you may be the folks stopping trump. >> you are one of the most important people in american politics that nobody knows about. >> i guess i will be celebrity for like ten minutes. >> celebrity, you said it. >> yeah. >> i just got an e-mail from our colleague, katy tur, donald trump has announced he's hiring senior advisor to support the team on the donald trump campaign, mckay. you look at these delegates. it is no holds barred. every one wants to be these delegates because they can do whatever they want. >> when people go into choose those delegates, they'll not know who they are staking their claims for if in fact they are unless they have been handed
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those flyers. >> exactly. >> jacob is still on the hunt, appreciate it. >> we'll have much more to come throughout the day here on msnbc. thank you for joining us at this hour, live from the urban tap. i am erika hill in for tamron hall at this hour. i will see you at 2:00 p.m. right here live. up next is "andrea mitchell reports." our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in.
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