tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC April 25, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
i want to thank our great audience at the national constitution center here in philadelphia. it's been a great night. thank you. [ applause ] you just heard bernie sanders and hillary clinton get in their last word with voters tonight in town hall meetings in philadelphia, hosted by chris hayes and rachel maddow. undecided voters and undecided voters on tv have only one more night to sleep on it before they cast their votes tomorrow in five states. we will have reaction to the news coming out of the msnbc town hall's tonight, but we begin with the bold new strategy to stop trump. a partnership thought we'd never see. rivals ted cruz and john kasich are now teaming up to stop trump. the stop-trump movement will finally have what it has always
wanted, one on one in crucial states. and tonight, how ted cruz and john kasich will divide up the remaining states and will it work? let's start by saying leave tom brady alone. leave him alone. >> we're focusing our energy on the state of indiana and governor kasich is focusing his energies elsewhere. >> it's culution. >> what does that even mean? >> because it's a rigged system, you're allowed to collude. >> i would ask governor kasich's supporters to stand with us. >> i don't see it as such a big deal. i mean, everybody chill out. >> in such a disgusting fashion. >> not a big deal. >> so, he's going nowhere. >> come and join us, stand together. >> 'lyin' ted', the only thing he can do is try to grab
delegates. >> the establishment is not just going to roll over, no matter what trump gets going into this. >> wryou would have a revolt. >> they're having a weird -- >> they are and that's for them to sort out. >> they're way out of touch with where the american people are. >> how handsome am i? right? how handsome? >> ha-ha. >> this is the last word on campaign 2016. tonight evafter the first fl day of the stop trump came up with a new idea for unifying the republican party. >> if you look at these two guys, one is one for 41. i won many, many states. millions of votes ahead, many states, many delegates. the other one is like a total disaster. he goes to new york last week. he doesn't evilen register he's
so low. he got no delegates. folks, they ought to both drop out of the race so we ought to unify the republican party. [ applause ] >> that's right. donald trump's new strategy for reunifying the republican party is that his opponents should just drop out and simply hand him the republican nomination right now. the last time the republicans were at this spot, this very spot on the presidential campaign calendar, mitt romney unified them the old fashion way, by winning primaries. on this day, april 25th, "governor romney's strong performance and delegate count at this stage of the primary process has made him the presumptive nominee. that's after he won all five states voting that week. being the presumptive nominee changes everything in the
campaign. they get effect v control of the convention, the party apparatus are in service to that presumptive nominee. but tonight, republicans are presuming nothing and this time tomorrow night, republicans will still be presuming nothing, even if donald trump, as expected, wins all five states up for grabs tomorrow. here's the way ted cruz's campaign manager spoke about how the cruz campaign is now coordinating with the kasich campaign. here's donald trump's reaction to the cruz-kasich announcement today in rhode island. >> did you see the news today? did you see where they banned
together, where they collude. you know it's culution? you know, if you collude in business, if you collude in business or if you collude in the stock market, they put you in jail but in politics, because it's a rigged system, because it's a corrupt enterprise, in politics, you're allowed to collude. so, they colluded and actually i was happy because it shows how weak they are. honestly, it shows such total weakness and it's pathetic when two establishment guys, whether you like it or not, have to collude to try to beat a guy who really speaks what the people want. >> here's the ted cruz message to kasich supporters indiana in. >> john kasich announced that he was pulling out of the state of indiana. [ applause ]
he's focusing his attention on other states. what that means is that indiana gets a straight and direct choice between our campaign and donald trump. for those supporters of john kasich, either here or at home, there may beish isisbeishus on disagree, but more unitess us. if you don't want to see donald trump as the nominee -- if you can and will beat donald trump and then hillary clinton. >> and now msnbc news reporter, hally jackson. what's their assessmentality the end of day one of the new alliance? >> reporter: ready to move forward essentially. at this point, he's looking beyond the so-called northeastern midatlantic states and instead looking to be strong
here in, indiana. and that's part of the reason he brought kasich on. it became mathematically impossible for cruz to win out right and that's why you're seeing them team up. you're not seeing each candidate explicitly say that their supporters should vote for the other guy. and you're not seeing john kasich say that about his supporters here in indiana. it's an embrace but not a full on pact the way some folks are talking about it. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. joining us now, senior advisor for anti-trump pact and also with us, scotty hughes, chief political commentator for usa networks. and they recommend scotty join us tonight to speak for the trump campaign. what is the trump campaign's
assessment of this new alliance and how do they plan on dealing with it? >> you heard trump say this was an act of desperation. it was interesting to see this bromanse already start to fall apart. they're not telling our people to vote for the other guy in the states designated. and in the official voter pamplet that was sent out to every registered republican in oregon, it's amazing john kasich was left out. he did not release his bio and picture, while ted cruz and donald trump's name and bio's are both listed in this voter registration that goes outto every registered voter. i have to think there was a little bit of a play here by the cruz campaign who said join in on this pact and let us handle indiana and we'll let you handle oregon and it doesn't
necessarily look like oregon is the ground game that kasich needs and maybe that's what cruz was banking on. >> reporter: are you going to directly tell your voters in indiana to support ted cruz? >> no, i'm not going to tell anybody how to vote. but look, i mean, this is a matter of resources and we are running a national campaign and we want to apply our resources where we think they can be used most effectively and it's all designed to stop hillary clinton from becoming president. >> is this culution? >> i don't even know what that means. i don't see this as any big deal other than the fact that i'm not going to spepd resources in indiana and he's not to going to in other places. what's the big deal? >> is this what the stop-trump movement wanted? >> we want to stop him from getting 1237 delegates and
anything that helps ted cruz win indiana is going to help that process and i think this absolutely does that. it's funny listening to scotty try to insult his ground game in oregon where donald trump's ground game and delegate effort has been an utter disaster in every state around the country. he's had trouble filling slates and every time he fails, he whines and complains and says the game is rigged. this is all donald trump has. so, what we're looking at is ted cruz has a clear path to beat him in indiana and get some delegates from maryland from him. >> and let's look at the poll showing donald trump at 40, ted cruz at 35, john kasich at 20 and that could be very bad news for donald trump if those kasich voters migrate to ted cruz. >> but who's to say they're
going to migrate to ted cruz. kasich is procommon core, pronapr pronafta. so, i can't sit there and say -- the only thing that might unite them is their hatred for donald trump but i think they're bigger than that. i think they believe in saving this country and the gop more than their ego, even if those closest to the cruz campaign don't feel the same way. kasich gave up indiana, that's right next to ohio. governor kasich -- the only place kasich has won is ohio so why isn't he competing in indiana? and smoomehow he's been talked t into releasing that state. >> number one, they both are capable of beating hillary clinton in november. there is a poll out today
showing donald trump losing to hillary clinton by eight in arizona. only two -- eight. only two democrats have won arizona in the last 100 years. donald trump's getting crushed there. number two, ted cruz and john kasich have a basic respect for the constitution and for conservative values, something that donald trump has shown no willingness to defend throughout his entire life and throughout his career and this campaign. so, those are two important things they have in common. they want somebody who can win and somebody who respects the constitutional values this country was founded on. they're going to support john kasich and ted cruz in the appropriate state. >> what are you hear ogen the ground about this migration? >> reporter: big question mark as to whether it's going to be effective. for example we spoke with both cruz supporters and kasich
supporters in indiana. i had one supporter say i don't know why but i understand why he is. then again, we spoke to kasich supporters and he said i'm early voting which has been going on for three weeks is about twice as much as it was it this time in 2012, during the last cycle. so, the dye has already been cast for thousands of indiana voters who have already voted, one of whom voted for john kasich today. he says i heard about the alliance but i'm voting for the guy and not the game. so, that's what they have to overcome in these states and we're talking about these poll numbers. if you look at the most recent polling, it shows john kasich, about one in five would pick trump as their second choice. if you assume all of he's voters buy into this strategy, which is a big if by the way, then you
still don't guarantee a win for ted cruz tomorrow night. so, he's going to be at the hoosier gym. he's not going to be in delaware or any of these states. this is where he will folkes cu the next seven days. i had an aid say to me this is like a mini wisconsin. they had two weeks to try to pick up momentum head nothingin that contest. they'll have one week starting wednesday. that's where they see this race kind of resetting and ted cruz needs to pull out a big win in indiana. >> how much are you putting into the stop-trump movement in indiana? >> seven figures over a million. i like to hear that ted cruz is going to be at the hoosier's gym tomorrow night. you know, if you look at the votes, from ohio, the last time something like this happened where marco rubio basically said
i can't win ohio, if you support me, you should vote for john kasich, the rubio number went down to 2% in ohio. while she's right and there will be people who vote their conscience, i think you'll see a big percentage of the kasich vote going for cruz on tuesday. >> and scotty, that fox news poll shows ted cruz within two or three points of donald trump when you take kasich out in indiana. >> and that's exactly why he came up with this plan. he has several other indiana hoosiers that are aligning with him, but more importantly, he has the people of indiana. they just lost hundreds of jobs. he's offering solutions to this idea of people losing their jobs and while the people continue to push this negative message,
we're finding it's backfiring across this country as they continue to lose and mr. trump continues to gain optimism as he's offering solutions and not just wanting to divide our republican party that we love. >> the people have experience with trump in jobs. he went to gary, indiana and promised he was going to build the best casino ever, believe me, believe me and they believed me and they let him bring a casino to gary and five years later he pulled out and the jobs weren't created 3. >> why did he pull out? maybe because of the regulations? >> because not enough money for himself because he cares more about himself than regular voters and the people in indiana saw what it was like when he promises jobs and they don't materialize. >> thank you all for joining us tonight. really appreciate it.
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in the campaign. that's where senior strategists spend their days and nights, sometimes all night, figuring out where to send the candidate next, strategies for the latest attack. that's where campaign s live or die. two republican war room s find themselves where they have never been before, cooperating with each other while still trying to destroy each other. john kasich's war room has given up any hope of winning indiana even though ohio is the neighbor. the ted cruz war room has decided to leave new mexico and oregon to john kasich. the cruz campaign will not compete in those western states, recognizing that john kasich has
a much better chance there to take delegates away from donald trump. the ted-cruz, stop-trump alliance started too late to have any effect on tomorrow's voting. here's trump's reaction to the alliance. >> you had 'lyin' ted' announce that he can't win by himself. he cannot do it. he's a joker. he cannot do it. so, he said let me form a partnership which i call -- what do we call it? go ahead. what do we call it? let me form -- it's called collusion, folks. >> you have to go to the real presidential campaign war room. professionals only. joining us tonight, two veterans of political war rooms. day served to the mitt romney presidential campaign and
columnist with daily beast and former strategist for mitt romney's campaign. take us inside the kasich war room and the cruz war room tonight. for the first time ever they have a hot line joining these two war rooms trying to figure out how they step forward. >> first, i have to take a moment to celebrate the new presidential thought of donald trump. >> the one we just heard. >> that's really going well. keep that up. look, in many ways this kind of things happen. they just don't broadcast it, where it's sort of commonsense. >> stop on that for a second. take us inside the version of this that we've never actually seen publicly revealed? are there conversations? do people say we're going to layoff or do you just watch the ad buys and figure out that they're laying off in a certain
state? >> if you look at the cycle, you had states like in florida where not to gingri newt gingrich was making a play and i can't tell you how much they discussed it, but you could sort of look at resources. i think the reason this needs to be public now is two-fold. one it's important that voters know what to do and two, in this new campaign finance world, it's important that the super packs know what to do. and the best way to do that, and the most legal and open way to do it is just to say it and then nobody is signaling anybody. people are just talking allowed. i suspect that, you know, none of these things work perfectly but it's the best shot that you
have and when you get in these situations, i think you have to go back and get your best player and run your best play and hope for the best. >> stewart just dropped a little reference there. what's the lawyer doing in the war room? so, when they were figuring out this truce, the lawyers speak up and say remember the super packs, we cannot legally pick up the phone and call them and say hey, don't do any attack kasich ads in indiana, so is that one of the incentives? >> it's a highly regulated area where they need lawyers to get involved. >> the lawyers have lawyered their way into the war room and we can't get them out of here. >> this is a situation where the campaign can't call up the super pack and you do run a risk that a super pack is going to see a campaign pull out and wonder is this my cue that i, the super pack a, am supposed to go in or
do i need to stay out because of the campaign, which is why they needed to talk about it. what's interesting is how much they're really talking to the kasich and cruz people. indiana, one, new mexico and oregon to the other is pretty easy. when it comes to california, which will be the definitive size, that's a congressional district, which will be much trickier for these two campaigns to pull off. >> do you see any reason for them not to continue this effort into california? >> no, lord, i hope they do. it gets much tougher though because you think about what are your decisions? you take the l.a. media mark and combine it up by congressional districts? how do you do that? you go on a television program in los angeles, you're reaching a lot of different congressional
distric districts. nothing is him etricly sealed. so, it works better in theory than reality. but it still would be important to try to do. this is all about -- basic sense. >> and kasich says he's already been very successful in the delegate hunt in indiana already. so, he's not that much concerned with indiana because he has second ballot supporters lineered up there. >> good for him if that's actually true, the problem is you have to get to that second ballot to be able to pull it off and the promises of delegates and faithfulness is a fundable
characteristic as things go along. >> stewart, what is the smart response to this in the trump war room? unfortunately, we'd have to keep most of the people out of the trump war room to get an intelligent response. but manifort and those that know what they're doing. >> it takes two of them to beat me. i think that's fine. but ultimately, that's a process argument. people don't really care about the process. they care about what people are going to do to improve their lives. the danger of something like this is you start talking about process rather than impact. so, i think it's important to get back on campaign track and get back to what you were talking about and not be distracted boo iit and most people aren't going to focus on this and it's important that the
campaign not focus on it. >> and in indiana, when they get that ballot, they're going to see marco rubio, jeb bush, this is a ballot that still pretty much has everybody on it and then they have this instruction that might be a little confusing. what was i supposed to do? i wanted to vote kasich, what do i do? and cakasich isn't saying the definitive statement, vote for ted cruz in indiana. >> the voters are pretty smart and after a week of making it clear that this is really ted cruz's state, my sense is the message is going to get through to the voters. >> is a week einough to deliver this message clearly? >> a week is a long time in politics. i think a week is tons of time.
it's going to be in the doing about this, not the talking about it. you have cruz tin going to be the definitive focus that is going to make this a two-person race and that's going to capture people's attention. and that's going to make it a two-person race. >> and success or failure really determines what happens next. if they have a success with this, then of course they're going to to california and jersey with it. >> and you have 39 democratic districts and you get as many delegates from winning the most democratic district as a republican district. it's a ground game and getting your message out and that's what the cruz and kasich people have
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campaign 2016. >> we'll have more on the bernie sanders and hillary clinton town halls on msnbc tonight hosted by chris hayes and rachel maddow. but this is the way it looked on the campaign trail. >> do i look presidential? >> back to the kasich-cruz orcruz-kasich alliance, here's what we know. >> today has been a significant day. >> a stunning reversal of where these two camps were. >> i would ask governor kasich's supporters to stand with us. >> are you going to directly tell your supporters in indiana to vote for cruz? >> no. >> donald trump is saying that you are colluding. >> i understand, that's what he does. >> this is a dirty business, politics. >> is this collusion? >> what does that even mean? does he know what that means? what donald trump needs to
understand is that he cannot beat hillary clinton. in the latest poll out of new hampshire he loses. i don't respond to donald trump. >> when you say you shouldn't make promises you can't keep, are you talking about senator sanders? >> i think there have been questions raised about the numbers not adding up. >> we are the stronger campaign in taking on donald trump or any other republican candidate. >> you want the person who got the most votes to be the nominee. >> we got five states tomorrow, we got 10 remaining states, including the largest state in the country. >> i don't know what else i can do to tell you who i'm for. >> turning point tuesday, five crucial primary states. can trump sweep them all? and there are two billion people
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correctly so, want to make sure that some right wing republican doesn't become president of the united states. we are running as hard as we can in this thing. my job is to get as many delegates as possible and to try to win the nomination for president. >> i'm sith here because of what i stand for and what i've done and what my ideals are. i have the greatest respect for senator sanders but what he and his supporters are now saying just doesn't add up. i have 2.7 million more votes than he has. i have more than 250 more pledged delegates. i'm very proud of the campaign that we have run and the support we have gotten. >> joining us now, john than allen, author of hrc, state secrets and the rebirth of hillary clinton. he's the head of community content for side wire.
jonathan, what did you see in the town halls tonight that voters might be thinking about on the way to the polls? >> from bernie sanders you're hearing the need to tear down the establishment, to get the kind of agenda that democratic voters want. the idea that you can't get it through what you have now, through mild or moderate changes and from the hillary clinton perspective, the argument is that you in fact have to work within the system to get changes and that you need to put your shoulder to the wheel to get those done. these are arguments that have been dist iled over the past year and i think both of the candidates made their best pitch tonight. >> let's listen first to what bernie sanders said when asked about the possibility of his supporters eventually supporting hillary clinton if she's the nominee. >> if we end up losing, and i hope we do not, and if secretary clinton wins, it's incumbent upon her to reach out to, not
only my supporters, but to the american people with an agenda that they believe will represent the working families, the middle class, those of us concerned about the environment and not just big money interests. >> and before you react to that, let's just put hillary clinton's version of the same possibility if she is the nominee and what she does is compare what happened to her when she did indeed did try to deliver her support to barack obama then running. >> i did not put down conditions. i didn't say, you know what, if senator obama does x, y, and z, i'll support him. i said i'm supporting senator obama, from the time i was through until the time i nominated him, i nominated him at the convention in denver. i spent an enormous amount of time convincing my supporters to
support him. that is what i think one does. >> jonathan, what was your reaction to that exchange? >> she pulled the exact perfect clips to describe the state of the race right now. these two are no longer locked in the nasty fight over whose arer going to win, what they're really fighting over is the degree to which bernie sanders and his supporters are going to have an influence over hillary clint clinton's agenda going forward. you heard bernie sanders essentially saying she's going to have to make some concessions and clinton doing the exact opposite saying i didn't support berock a balmau conditionally, i gave him my support because i wanted to see a democrat in the white house. that's going to be the fight for the next month or so and i gather at the democratic convention as well. >> thanks for joining us tonight. appreciate it. up next, what do indiana voters -- what are they thinking about this whole new kasich-cruz
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get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. early voting in indiana has actually been underway since april fifth. and today is the first full day of the cruz-kasich alliance. tony, is that alliance making sense to voters there? >> reporter: not so much, lawrence. it has a lot of challenges and the fist one is at least 60,000 republicans have already cast votes here and 20,000 were john kasich votes. those are sunk voetsz and he's
going to be on the ballot throughout this week. additionally, there are trump voters who are so excited, you would not believe it. long before he started using the word collusion -- in the morning, they were already saying this proves the system is unfair, it's rigged. and then there are the kasich voters. we talked several of them. take a listen. >> i believe in his principals, what he is all about. saw the news that cruz and kasich are teaming up but wanted to vote on my conscience rather than the game. i didn't want to sacrifice what i knew was the right candidate for me and i'm not a cruz voter, i'm a kasich voter and so i vote kasich. >> reporter: so, that really sums it up. i wanted to vote for the guy, not the game. and that particular voter wanted to vote for kasich and still
voted for kasich. the biggest source of disappointment today was kasich supporters in indianapolis and there are kasich supporters and this has to be extremely painful for people working on the kasich campaign, instead of voting for cruz, heard about the alliance and thought it was so desperate that they actually switched their vote, not to cruz but to donald trump, the exact opposite of what the various campaigns are encouraging. so, overall, it's only one sample, it's marion county, the biggest county in indiana. it's not scientific but it is pretty damming. the reaction is not good for this alliance. >> it ain't science but it ain't sounding too good. we'll see if they can make this whole thing work in a week. coming up, conservative radio talk show host says they sold
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♪ i'm really trying to understand how conservatives can look at donald trump's record and say that's our guy. i just don't understand it. because his record is horrendous when it comes to conservative principals. >> that was glen beck last year marveling at how some radio talk show hosts could be supportive of donald trump's candidacy. ziegler says thavl rr been playing with fire enabling the trump campaign. and host of the john and leah show. he wrote a recent article titled how and why the conservative media sold its soul to fac facilitate trump's nomination.
make your case. what have you seen in the conservative media landscape and how surprising has it been for you? >> well, i have been a card carrying member of the right wing conspiracy for quite a while and this is not a surprise. because i've been trying to tell people for many years that the conservative media was more than willing to sell its soul if it felt it was within its self interest to do so. and matt druj, and this was shock many of your liberal viewers who helped barack obama survive the reverend wright situation against hillary clinton in 2008. i know his right hand man very well and andrew would have told you that the exact same thing. that was the first sometime i ever said this is really a business. it's not a cause. it's meetings and traffic and i
happen to believe in 2012, similar things have happened in the primary process. this is the greatest travesty i've ever seen and it's an absolute abalmination alleged republicans have sold their souls for ratings. i happen to believe the last time to stop him was new hampshire and after that, they the monster was created. they created this monster for their benefit and they're going to pay the price. liberals are going to be very happy about what is people like sean hannity and others did all for their own self interesting. i like donald trump as a person but he's not a conservative and he can't beat hillary clinton. other than that, how was the play? >> i had the pleasant experience
of having to drive from new york city to western massachusetts the day after the first debate, where trump was the worst debart and i'm listening to rush lim bah the whole three hours and they're coming in angry at fox for asking good questions and i listen to the boston, massachusetts conservative radio talk show host. the same thing and i notice the hosts, howie car and limbaugh. am i watching the host chase the audience for basically business reasons? >> it's important to point out that the news media is broken. there is no journalism anymore. it's dead. fragmentation has totally
changed the business model. and radio is broken very badly. and i think rush is even more concerned with not being bored. i think trump is exciting for him. he wants content and let's face it, the conservative media wins no matter what now. if its trump versus hillary clinton, everybody's going to get great ratings and i believe trump will lose to hillary and that leaves more years of content for the social media. nobody made more money in the obama administration, other than gun manufacturers than fox news channel and matt druj and you guys actually lost audience after helping him get elected. the problem is people understand what their self interest is. and the social media has a self interest in donald trump winning the nomination and hillary clinton winning the presidency.
they win either way. and most viewers and listeners and readers don't even understand they're being scammed. that's the real travesty here. >> they said he didn't have a chance. >> remember, when we began this campaign, we were 60 points behind. >> until his message started a movement. >> we're doing something radical telling the truth. >> have the courage to take on the special interests preventing us from going forward. >> how does bernie sanders bounce back this time? >>ly i will stand up and fight for you all the way into the white house. >> if you believe that issues can be addressed by the establishment politics, you've got a very good candidate to vote for but it's not bernie sanders.